Forged Books in the New Testament Exposed! | Bart D. Ehrman
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www.amazon.com/Forged-Writing...
Bart D. Ehrman, the New York Times bestselling author of Jesus, Interrupted and God’s Problem reveals which books in the Bible’s New Testament were not passed down by Jesus’s disciples, but were instead forged by other hands-and why this centuries-hidden scandal is far more significant than many scholars are willing to admit. A controversial work of historical reporting in the tradition of Elaine Pagels, Marcus Borg, and John Dominic Crossan, Ehrman’s Forged delivers a stunning explication of one of the most substantial-yet least discussed-problems confronting the world of biblical scholarship.
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It is truly a depressing thought how much literature from the ancient world we have lost. What I wouldn't give to be able to go back for one day.
It wasn't lost but destroyed to promote the Jesus Lies
Wear a mask. And don't eat or drink anything. Better not touch anything either. Actually, just don't go.
@@Robert_L_Petersseriously, traveling to the past would be absolutely horrible. Garbage food, gross water, terrible sanitation, bone-chilling body odor, sandals + animal shit everywhere.
Eff time travel.
@@Ematched
Sounds like Texas.
@@3wolfsdown702 Where is the evidence? I have been baffled there is NOTHING from the hand of Pontius Pilate. No decrees, letters, orders. Nothing survived. Is there evidence material Pontius Pilate actually wrote was deliberately destroyed? I've never seen that claim so far.
Ehrman always gives a good interview, but this is outstanding even for him. Excellent show!
Couldn’t agree more! I’ve read a lot of Dr. Ehrman’s books. I’ve seen him interviewed lots of other places. But I learned so much on the show today.
I read "Forged" years ago and have been hoping for an opportunity to hear Dr. Ehrman discuss the subject outside of a lecture scenario. And here it is on History Valley with Jacob Berman! How wonderful that this video/podcast should be nearly 2.5 hours of that very topic. Jacob - your questions are surgically insightful and James Valliant's inquiries and observations are so finely honed. A tremendously impressive episode. Three fine scholars at the table. Among the very best of the channel's offerings so far.
- The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own.
The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story.
It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353 - Where did you do your residency, doctor? Loch Ness?
@@termination9353 Are you writing a Dan Drown novel? how about a little dash of this thing called 'evidence"?
supported by Gospel scripture John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."
John 11:5
Now Jesus LOVED Martha, and her sister, and LAZARUS
John 11:3
Therefore his sisters sent unto him{Jesus], saying, Lord, behold, HE[Lazarus] WHOM THOU LOVEST is sick..
John11:36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he[Jesus] LOVED him[Lazarus]!
supported by Gospel scripture John 21:24 "This is the disciple[whom Jesus loved/ Lazarus] which testifieth of these things, AND WROTE THESE THINGS: and we[Apostles] know that his testimony is true."
John 11:5
Now Jesus LOVED Martha, and her sister, and LAZARUS
John 11:3
Therefore his sisters sent unto him{Jesus], saying, Lord, behold, HE[Lazarus] WHOM THOU LOVEST is sick..
John11:36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he[Jesus] LOVED him[Lazarus]!
This is one of the best interviews of Bart that I've ever watched ...Three people with three personalities! Jacob is very pensive and seems to emit an aura of meditative mood. James is kind with a humble attitude---now Bart--what can we say about him----Bart is a genius, and has got a good sense of humor when he talks. This is a gold mine!
Jacob is very ghostly in colour, he looks like an apparition that has just come back from the dead.😱
@@Petal4822 lol
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own.
The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story.
It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Such a shame Bart, why oh why 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@maggers1278 why?
Thank you Jacob and James this was a wonderful enlightening discussion with Dr. Ehrman
I have read many of Bart's books and I have learned very much. The New Testament is not what most people think it is.
I have read many of Bart’s Books and he is definitely
the ANTI-CHRIST.
Really now.
The new testament is exactly what it is. Bart's opinions are his.
@@therighteousrighthand , which of the 40,000 different versions of the New Testament is the correct one?
@@satyarisingsanctuary They all are...They are from the same source and have the same message in all the books..same facts...same sequence of verses...
Damn that was a great 2:00:00 hours of content. Nice work, Jacob!
Excellent discussion. Special thanks of course to the star of this episode Dr Bart Erhman. Also thanks to James Vallient and Jacob, of course. I have learned so much from all of you. Keep fighting to good fight and keep up the good work all!
it was a most interesting conversation, i listened to since long time ago! highly intellectual with full of humanity in it as usual as Bart. thank you for 3 of you!
Thank you all so very much for an incredible compendium of food for thought backed by the highest academic research and cogitation! I am surely going to read and absorb Dr. Ehrman's other works and writings. I think, most of all, I am most thankful for the dismissal of dogma. We are beyond the age of dogma, and the knowledge base finally exists to allow us to gather facts and extend thinking beyond. You guys rock!
A massively important and great interview. I appreciate Bart Ehrman in so many different ways. Thanks to Jacob Berman for putting this together. The statement I whole heartedly agree with is "we have no database for comparison." It is a comic motif to displace our modern sensibilities upon ancient civilizations long since departed. Take for example: "The Marx Brothers meets Cleopatra," "Larrel & Hardy meets Ghengis Khan," "the Three Stooges meet Nero" or another movie great, "Phillis Diller, Monty Python & Lady Gaga descend on Capone's Chicago." Forgery, akin to counterfeiting, in the ancient world consisted of covering over or hiding something of less value which is made to appear as something of more value. The counterfeiting of Roman Gold coins had severe punishments, for good reason, because the counterfeit coins were not made entirely of gold, but of a metal of lesser value. Not much attention was paid to the counterfeiting of small denominations of coins because the difference in value was often negligible. Having said this, Bart Ehrman should be well aware that the concept of "forgery" in the modern world was somewhat different in the ancient world and that copyright law and laws protecting intellectual property were practically non-existent. Also, by using the term, "forgery," one is assuming there exists something of equal or greater value when nothing of the kind has been found or even believed to have existed. Although plagiarism was frowned upon as dishonorable, even this does not fit the definition, because no one person or party is interested in taking credit for the supposed "forgery." The only advantage or value is one of intangibility or small coins.
Intangibility aside Dr Ehrman is a true treasure. His views on other textual positions and his peers is very helpful in understanding the evidence.
Great discussion. These insights are always so important. Thanks for the interview questions that were direct and to the point.
Very enlightening! Love the way both Bart and Jim laugh a lot. Thanks Jacob!
If Bart Ehrman is on, I am listening (and often taking notes).
Coming to this in Oct2023_ TQ Jacob for cool hosting and insightful questions - And James Valliant for obvious knowledgeable watch - As for Prof Bart Ehrman TQ sir you are ever astounding in deep dives of the early textual construct of the Christian NT&OT, obviously complicated and steeped in controversies stretched through 2023 years ! If I may say , while years ago the speedy energy of your younger scholar's talks/debates was fascinatingly fiery and devastative [for conservatives], your present mellowed energy is quite enjoyably merry yet just as explosively fascinating ! Regards & much Respect from Borneo 🙏🌏👣💫🙌
I really wasn't sure why I clicked on this video, but I'm glad I did. Fascinating discussion!!!
In regards to the discussion of the first 2 chapters of Luke and the manuscript discrepancy around 1:38 : Justin Martyr, in Dialogue with Trypho (chapter 103), says: "It
is narrated in the Memoirs of the Apostles that as soon as Jesus came out of the River Jordan and a voice said to Him: "Thou art My Son, this day I have begotten Thee"." Justin clearly had an older version that cited Psalm 2 and could have been interpreted as "adoptionist." Though it also pretty apparent that Justin was himself an "incarnationist." This supports Ehrman's conclusion.
Awesome in depth discussion!
Very good information
Enjoyed the channel. Just subscribed and playing catch up. Truly enjoyed you, James and Bart. Loved the discussion. Can't wait to see more. Thanks for your show. You guys ae awesome.
Ehrman’s books “Forged” and “How Jesus Became God” changed my life.
Hey man! Thanks for posting :) Just a quick piece of advice: try to be a bit more “loose” and lively during your interviews. I don’t just mean smile more (although that could help! 😅) but also just ask your own spur-of-moment questions, and overall just treat it like a conversation with a friend! Not like a super serious interview between 2 scholars.
Because I might be totally wrong on this (and I’ve only seen a few of your interviews so far), but I just feel that your tone can be a bit too “serious” sometimes (which isn’t bad); it might just be your personality which is totally cool, but I feel like you could maximize the potential of the discussions with a more relaxed and spontaneous atmosphere, especially with these types of complicated discussions.
Also, instead of diving right into the content within the first few seconds, maybe take a few moments to “break the ice” and ask your interviewees what their favorite hobbies are, or where they’ve travelled around the world-something like that. Just something to loosen everyone up and set the stage!
Anyways, thanks again! I really appreciate your content and think you’re doing a great job! Keep it up :) And you have a new subscriber
This is not daytime TV 🙄loosen them up before you press record - or lose your audience who came for seriousness not filler.
In the ancient world it was (as Im sure Ehrman says) very common to do this. The man who wrote the massive Zohar (Moses de Leon) attributed it to a famous rabbi who'd lived in the distant past. It added prestige to use the ancient authorship attribution. It was also not uncommon when writing, for ex a mystical text, (ie. Hermetica) to believe that in a sense you were channeling that deity or person and make _Hermes Trimegustus,_ or whomever, 'the author'.
As an ex-Christian, now deconstructing. I’m finding Bart’s insights invaluable to my deconstruction. I found this interview very captivating and moved quickly 😊
This seem to you a rather odd question: Do you believe that the Earth a spinning sphere revolving around the sun? And is there such a thing as a vacuum of outer space?
@@jesuschristfullygodfullyma613 The earth is round my guy
This was fascinating. Many thanks 👏
Thank you Jacob,James and Bart.With the Pastoral letters I like the theory that Polykarpos of Smyrna and his known assistant Crescens forged them using some fragments of real letters here and there. They could not resist using their own names in 2 TIM “the cloak with Karpos” and “Crescens”. We know Polycarp sent Crescens to Philippi with collections of letters by Ignatius and was likely the circulator of collections of Paul’s letters. Titus and Timothy were important to the province of Asia and Macedonia and Polycarp’s claimed authority. -Dr G.Craig Fairweather.
Ignatius wrote nothing. You really think Romans would let him write letters while riding on a BUMPY prison chariot? He wouldnt be able to wrote legibly!
Bart is fabulous, super-intelligent and super sense of humour; even Jacob cracked a few smiles and seemed to find it hard not to burst out laughing. Imagine having dinner with Bart and soaking up some of his scholarly knowledge. Fabulous, Thank you all very much. Xxxx ❤
He is a bag of wind that stutters around and think everything is funny, from his insecurities, to keep unlearned people to stay deceived.
I was never a fan of James Valliant but that has changed in large part to this show. Every time he’s on, I find him to be very open to other peoples ideas and respectful of differences. He’s always engaging and fun and a great contributor to these types of conversations.
Seconded
I agree I've seen him be quite insightful in his comments
- The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own.
The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story.
It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353 Believe what you like. We have freedom of religion in this country.
@@geraldmeehan8942 I wasn't asking for your permission was I.
Great discussion❤
They have made the critical error of basing doctrine on the opinions of men, rather than on the words of Jesus Christ.
They've made no error. You lack the humility necessary to be saved.
The supposed words of Jesus Christ are the invention of men as much as any other piece of human culture, so your argument is circular at best - it assumes the conclusion it tries to prove, that the Gospels are the inerrant word of God. Talk about a critical error. You’re basically just saying, “You’ve made the mistake of not assuming from the start the same religious beliefs I have.”
The Subtle tone Of Dr.B.E. gives away the spirit behind his conversation.
Easy work.
Thank you Dr bart ehrman jacob and james
James Valliant's reactions are fun and funny to watch.
On Paul’s ‘status’ , Paul says ‘I know how to abound’. It has been suggested that this means he knows how to be generous with goods, because he in his youth was once raised in a wealthy family.
Yes ‘pistils’ or ‘faith’ is ‘trust’, but it is even more encompassing because it’s expression implies a way of life and endurance of problems arising from that trust. These are essential to understand the weight of the word in the NT statements. The value of “faith”to God, as implied in the NT, is trusting God’s promises to protect and reward in spite of the difficulties that living a life of such trust leads to. If you don’t risk anything because you don’t follow the radical behaviour pattern promoted by the NT then 1st believers would not think you had “faith” . Various writers emphasise faith’s four elements of belief of statement, trust shown in risking, commitment in spite of trouble and endurance to the end of life. Dr G.Craig Fairweather.
Bart! your explanation of faith is dead on my friend, Dang I love this stuff.
I never knew theology could be so much fun.....
History Valley keeps it fresh with the intro.
The problem is with forged books is if it says something the ones in control of the text, likes, then that it is a forgery, they do not care. When “Paul” who wasn’t Paul, said what men wanted to hear, namely that women should be silent, not teach men, only be alive so that they should have children, when it come to a consensus, there were more who wanted total subordination of women. Guess what, that hasn’t changed that much.
The other thing is that the real Paul, has been put on such a pedestal, that you if you even state what Paul did, such as to circumcise Timothy, which is a fact, you can likely be censored, even by those who claim to be “open-minded”.
Who was it that died on the cross? It wasn’t Paul. Even though Paul had a remarkable intellect, and reputable did miracles, also, he felt he was above criticism. Paul verbally attacked the many who were vegetarian and that was one of the reasons that these former Jews were in better health. Lots of diseases back then with meat, there still are even given modern methods of cooking, Yet, because of what Paul said, when people who could avoid their heart attacks and strokes listen to Paul vs. what can be done today with healing the arteries, getting off meat, it is obvious that the godly thing is not to listen to James the Just, but Paul, of course. It is stupid to want to have a heart attack, but no one ever said that being a Christian required intelligence. Christians do not like to consider the extent of brainwashing that the parts which actually can hurt us physically or can hurt women in particular, could be changed. But here the bearer of truth is the ENEMY, and not their beloved misogynistic text.
We have original sin, blamed on woman. But did God walk with Eve in the Garden of Eden? It was not recorded so perhaps He did, but Adam was supposed to pass on every bit of wisdom from God to Eve. Eve, at least argued with the serpent, Adam was right there, Eve handed him the fruit, she didn’t have to go chasing him down. He knew where the fruit had come from.
It is an assessment men don’t like, and if men don’t like it, it isn’t going to be the way it is taught. Woman has to be utterly evil and stupid and only useful for having children, or what it is politely saying without saying it, is that what women are good for is SEX. And as Paul told you what he thought about homosexual sex, men should make sure they are not frustrated, but that to be sure, if the woman cannot speak in church, if that woman is being brutalized, if he has sex with her anally then goes vaginally and she is sick and dies, … oh, well, no one knew and he can get another wife. People died all the time in the Old World, one more is nothing, just that her not talking at church, was good for the men who were brutal, wasn’t it?
If the woman did let it slip, she would be judged for not forgiving and properly submitting.
I love Jesus, I used to like Paul, but being female and seeing the misogyny in churches, women turned away from help and sent home to an abusive woman, one of which I know was MURDERED by her husband who fled to Mexico. On the advice of a fellow brainwashed woman and the rest of us who are not to contradict and sat like silent lambs, said nothing. This is how I decided to speak out. Domestic violence also happened to me. No one gave a good God DAMN!
I, too, was a victim of domestic abuse a number of times by women that I dated. In Developed countries such as the US, women have absolute super rights over men, and can just about get away with everything simply because of their gender. Just take a look at the ‘family courts’. They are extremely biased in favor of women and against men.
When the Apostle Paul seem to contradict himself, seem to threaten and insult those in the reading audience who disagree; then let's suspect pseudepigrapha. When 2nd Peter and Jude seem to be written by the same author, let's suspect pseudepigrapha (as I type this, I am hearing the other reasons. When Paul addressed 'new' subjects, let's suspect pseudepigrapha.)
What is common in all of these writings? They are all fiction.
Hence the reference to full of holes. Wholly Fable.
I have read the piece of news that a new version of Matthew in Aramaic has been discovered. There are differences compared to the present gospel.
Nice backgrounds. Such knowledge should be in the larger bagage of culture, as this show helped out to achieve.
Thank you.
Amazing interview
BEST INTERVIEW
Ever ...
Of bart ...
At my mother's funeral, the priest called upon Jesus to bless her.
Suddenly, the coffin lid opened and she sat up with a smile on her face.
I was so shocked, I woke up at that point.
1:59:23 "I don't think the Vatican claiming something is evidence."
Whaaaaaaat! Professor Ehrman, next thing you'll be claiming there's any such thing as paedophile priests. 😂
When Moses met God on Mt Sinai.
There wasn’t any witnesses testimonies but only a claim made by Moses that there was a million unidentified, unnamed people who according to Moses heard God’s voice.
For this to be verified, the witnesses themselves would need to make that claim.
They would need to identify themselves by name, and testify that what they heard was with their own physical ears…but they didn’t.
How do we know, it was God’s voice that Moses heard?
Maybe it was voices in Moses head…(schizophrenia)
There is no evidence, except a claim made by Moses.
Quran confirms moses pbuh only human being that talked to allah swt 💯💯💯 correct
@@01faisallThe Quran is at least as fictional as the Bible, so that’s irrelevant.
Moses probably didn’t even exist, according to the mainstream scholarly consensus.
I found dott Bart ehrman all over the place 😂😂👍👍👍👍
jacob - good job and thank you so much.
Bart mentions Robert Price and Jacob stares silently the same way you do when a relative brings up one of your ex girlfriends at a dinner party
Why 🤔
@@MSHOOD123 they’ve had some problems.
They were lovers
Actually, Jacob always looks like that...
To be a saint doesn't mean you have to be a virgin and the Orthodox Church is full of saints previously being big sinners. The obsession with sex and virginity lead the religious nutcase to all kind of abominations and cruelty. Yes, Virgin Mary was and remained virgin and She is the human mother of our Lord and God Jesus Christ and this puts her above all saints and angels.
According to the actual 1st Clement , before the text was corrupted , it had to have been written before The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD because it says that the animal sacrifices were still going on . If you're going to say that it was written later , the author would have to have made up the part about the animal sacrifices , trying to make it appear to have been written before 70 AD : th-cam.com/play/PLt6BmToNiaSd2HNUHSjI5-r91piPAbzpd.html
NT writers were completely ignorant about what Jesus preached. Jesus did not preach blood sacrifice but law of prophets. all past prophets also preached morality laws of 10 commandments Jer 7-23. NT writers were completely ignorant about law of prophets and were clueless about corruption in OT. Jer 7-22 and Isa 1-11 tells us all animal killing is fake noise created by Jewish priests. in Hebrews 9-18 to 23 they think blood was of any value. that is why modern Church also makes noise about Jesus died for our sins, blood of Jesus and believing in Jesus etc.etc. they lack logical thinking because blood of Jesus was shed but did not stop 70 AD slaughter of Jews. God of Bible once angry inflicts punishment only Isa 65-12
What is this "law of prophets", whereto you refer?
Law & Prophets are two facets of the OT writings that are essentially both exclusive and independent, with respect to the other.
What logic is there in assuming that either the Blood of Jesus or His Work on the Cross should have prevented any of the carnage or destruction of 70 ad?
The NT is concealed in the OT; and the OT is revealed in the NT.
The blood of the Passover lamb was used to allow the final plague on Egypt-death of first borns-to pass over the houses of the Hebrews, thereby allowing them to escape the destruction.
This was a shadow type of the final, once-for-all sacrifice of Jesus. The OT is one shadow type after another, of either Jesus, His Life or an aspect of His Finished Work.
On another note:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but *to fulfill.* For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, *till all be fulfilled.* †Matt 5:17-18, KJV†
†††
*Believe in thine heart and confess with thy mouth, both the Name of the Holy Anointed, Only Begotten Son of the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Biblical Testimony concerning Him, and thou shalt be saved.*
I glory not in any truth that I happen to speak; for how could I justly boast on that which I was freely given, whereof I therefore also freely received?
All Praise, Honor and Glory be to God, in Whom is all Truth and from Whom is all Truth received.
Love and peace to everyone.
To my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, Grace be unto you, Godspeed and God Bless.
To the world, please seek Jesus the Christ and God Bless.
@@DanielStewart80 Law of prophets is 10 commandments. they r morality laws not animal killing laws
@@kanwarjitsidhu8678 Correct. And the gospels were metaphor/allegory that was literalized by Rome. The truth is pretty simple and has been since the garden. Man has made it impossible to find the truth because of thier lies to control people.
Given that the Gospels and apocrypha are all we have to hint at what Jesus may or may not have taught, you don't really have a solid foundation for your assertions, do you.
Read it all as literature in the context of late antiquity and you're on safer ground.
@@ems4884 My information is iron clad as i was exposed to eastern religions as well as Quran. my exposure to Bible was limited before i heard Quran as Urdu translation. i was stunned by content of Quran and when i read Bible prophets i understood what they preached and why they were angry
Thank you
God said I AM
Perfect example of scholars wrongly dating the Pauline Epistles 21:20.
If Ephesians is identical to Paul's ideology and style of writing, but it appears to be written after the Jewish War and the destruction of the 2nd Temple of Solomon, then wouldn't that just confirm that Paul wrote his epistles after 70 AD rather than being impossibly early, because it's pure evidence at that point, yet we have scholars using confirmation bias rather than textual evidence. Even Marcion lists Ephesians in his biblical canon.
Thanks!
1:59:14 ❤ 1:59:29
Someone on Bart Erhman blog please ask about the ancient Christian teaching of Universal Reconciliation (Apocatastasis)
Well said re James and Galatians. Perhaps we can put quotation marks around “faith” as ‘James’ speaks of his opponents views. The letter of ‘James’ and genuine letters of Paul are consistent, because ‘faith’ in Paul includes or takes for granted a life of ‘doing good’’ that he expects if you trust the God of Paul’s preaching. ‘James’ is opposing a more restricted view of ‘faith’ as a collection of beliefs, possibly early gnostic, which went along with a highly stingy, non-helping, aloof, snobbish form of ‘Christianity’.
Why on earth would Christians desire to commit fraud ?? The pastoral epistles were written for Church discipline and instruction of Christians Can you please explain some of the anomalies in the Old Testament ie where did Cain get his wife from and who were the people that Cain waa afraid of or was it also all forgeries? What about the Old Testament books who have unknown authors???
afraid of or
It was extremely common in the ancient near East to write something under the name of another person. EXTREMELY common.
Look, it was just a wildly different culture than our own. It wasn't necessarily seen in the same moral light that we do. After all, this was LONG before copyright and modern individualism.
I realize the topic is Christianity, but it's best not to use your modern morality to judge ancient cultures.
Side note: the authors of biblical texts are almost ALL unknown. Paul is the exception to the rule. Solomon didn't write the Song of Solomon either. Putting names on these texts (and yes that includes the gospels) was a way of connecting your writings to a tradition, a historical era, or a body of thought.
Could it be that because of the problems in the churches is the reason for the guidance of authority positions purposed by Paul?
Don't be deceived, God is not mocked and what so ever one sows, one will reap and it is of a surety that everyone who teaches will be held accountable for what they say, yes ever idle word.
I wonder where's the role of faith if everything must be a fact with proof. Blind faith is ignorance and stupidity and only facts doesn't leave room for faith, especially when we are dealing with a supreme power beyond ourselves. If the truth about God is not revealed by Himself, no human can search and determine it. "By their fruits you should know them."
Thanks 👍
I expected Bart to point out that Jesus within his brief 3 yr Ministry also preached violence in clear terms. Just imagine if he had lived on for another 30 years and become the ruler of a sort of some place!!! The following utterances of his betray his unfulfilled political ambitions.
Matthew 10:
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law- 36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
Further, in Luke 19:27
“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”
1:39:20'' Why put genealogy after Baptism?''-------------Why put genealogy at all?
- The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Everytime I listen to Bart he confirms the Qur'an's account and he doesn't even know it.
I love listening to Bart even if there are some things I don't agree with.
Very informative.
The Gospel and the Old and new Testament shows us the spirit of Jesus. When you read the psalms or any other scriptures see Jesus in them. We were not the ones in the bible or our sufferings or a prophets sufferings that are declared in the bible. Its all Jesus. But dont believe my words believe Jesus's own words.
John 5:39 (KJV)
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Luke 24:
25 ¶ Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
32 ¶ And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
44 ¶ And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 ¶ And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day
Acts 2:
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 ¶ Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance (quoted from psalm 16:8)
29 ¶ Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption (quoted from psalm 16:10)
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 ¶ For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool (quoted from psalm 110:1)
36 ¶ Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 28:23 (KJV)
And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into [his] lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and [out of] the prophets, from morning till evening.
Now read this and see what Jesus cried to His Father. That is how we are forgiven.
Psalm 25:18 (KJV)
Look upon mine affliction and my pain; and forgive all my sins.
Or read any other Old Testament verse and see Jesus
@@JohnnyLang-dw8ll you guys are Pathetic.... Christianity is losing more ground, in addition to it's cracked narrative, because of this mentality of blind preaching....and assuming that people are like church sheep...who consuming whitout chewing
@JohnnyLang-dw8ll You cited all of this when we know that the four Gospels were written anonymously. You cited all of that when y'all don't even have the original manuscript of the Gospel of Mark, Matthew, Luke, or John. But I am supposed to believe what they say about Jesus? Allah makes it clear in the Qur'an that the Scripture in the hands of the Jews and Christians today is no longer the words of God. It is truth mixed with falsehood.
2:79. So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
And Bart confirms this over and over when he speaks about the New Testament.
How would Muhammad ( ﷺ) know any of this information about the New Testament?
What Rabbi and Priest would sit Muhammad(ﷺ)
down and tell him they did this to their Scriptures?
No way Muhammad( ﷺ) could have known about the Scriptures being changed just by hearing a Christian read the New Testament.
The Quaraan has MULTIPLE editions it is just as FAKE as the bible
@@JohnnyLang-dw8llJESUS IS NOT IN THE OT!! STOP FORCING HIM WHERE HE DOESNT BELONG
It seems to me that lots of the New Testament was written by scribes who were making a living selling books into a very vibrant literary market. This is not to say that lots of honest writing was not done. But it could be argued scribes could sell books and wrote to fill a market need.
There is a lot of work done on the calligraphy of the remaining manuscripts so they do know which hand wrote which texts...your idea is however quite amusing ....given evidence of religious shops thriving in holy sites
There was no market as the printing press wasn’t even invented and only very few people could read written texts in a literary language
@@fegeleindux3471 that's true
And lots of written in those letters (Pauline) were kept in the church or copied by Christian scribes for certain churches
This is replete with speculations.
The Bible is a mess.
@@daodejing81 You mean the Koran?
@@daodejing81 th-cam.com/users/liveeHyAfmoDQfw?feature=share
@@daodejing81 th-cam.com/video/wzMUQxeOj3Q/w-d-xo.html
@@Foster-rv6ty No, all the Abrahamic religions are cults, theologies that pervert Scripture.
This is great news, and it confirms what I already knew intuitively, that the Bible is not the word of God, and that the Bible has inconsistencies and untruths.
The Bible contains wisdom writings, no doubt, but not everything in the Bible is wisdom.
Same thing with the Quran.
lol I love staring at Jame's facial expressions
Just like we have fan fiction today it is possible that later people (not christians) wrote books claiming fraudulent authorship.
Funny that these "high level academics" seem years behind and don't know the basic arguments. I am a casual listener and reader and I know from DR. Carrier that the Greek word Paul uses about Jesus being born from a woman is more like "manufactured" not "born from" and apparently this caused such a stir in the early church that they started to change it in the copies.If this is accurate then its an important point of fact. This is an important element in the argument against the 'historist' claims and needs to be addressed- not just keep repeating poor translation as "proof" and pretending that no one has brought these facts forward. I want to hear the facts about this translation and its real meaning and what Paul was actually saying. until they do that, they seem very sloppy and evasive and should not be slapping each other on the backs about what great scholars they are.
Your one supposed example scarcely counterbalances the massive weight of academic research on the side of the scholarly consensus.
I don’t see what’s so important about this translation issue in any case, even assuming Carrier is correct. (And he’s considered a fringe character in Biblical scholarship, despite his high public profile, so grain of salt and all.)
@@yohei72Seems when there is little or no evidence, the arguments are replaced by claims of "massive weight" of academic research...LOL. There is a lot of argument from the historicicists, little research or good argument. And Carrier's position and work has opened the flood gates as more and more 'series academics' are admitting they are mythasists ...and others like Lataster are writting on the topic and being published outside of the frindge while pointing out that historisims is simply a very weak position kept in place by 'political" fears. Just like the historical mosses was.
Thats nothing - the Old Testament stories are plagerized from ancient Summarian Stories. The book of kings - describes Moses - baby king put in basket, floated down river, raised by farmers and became a king. They just elaborated on the story to make themselves seem "chosen" or important. Same with flood story - and Noah - just using a different name. Once again stories are elaborated upon.
That's not plagiarism. It's a constant in my literary history and mythology for stories to echo and build off each other
If Mary had am immaculate birth, but was conceived by s-x, and yet did not receive a sin nature, then why didn't G-d do the same for Yeshua (Jesus)? Also if Mary did not have a sin nature, then her mother would not have had a sin nature nor 'her' mother all the way down to Eve which we all know definitely had a sin nature. So the inherited sin nature story is shot down.
Good video. Always enjoy Mr. Ehrman.
The guy on the left has his jaws superglued together 😬
Just over an hour. Joseph- no she got pregnant by the Holy Spirit. Midwife- You're the 5th person this week to try that one 🤔🤗🤗
A very clever man
I wish I had to be quiet in church.
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Seneca near the end of his life
The influence of monotheism can be seen in his writings.
Paul had the Holy Spirit and could speak many languages.
Although His writing skills were poor.
I wonder what you guys would say about The Didache (The Teaching of the Twelve)
50:08 I appreciate Dr. Ehrman's common-sense attitude. Labels? Fancy names? --no thanks! Just truth and educated, supportable hypotheses please. (:
Could the title of co-authorship be misunderstood? That is maybe the co-author is mentioned because they helped buy the ink and paper or somehow assisted the actual author, Paul?
I'm just wondering if that's a possibility because it doesn't make sense to mention a coauthor if there really wasn't one, it could be acknowledging a sponsorship, though.
I happen to believe there was actually co-authors, see this video. th-cam.com/video/JVfOHdqQDI8/w-d-xo.html
1900 years and the church still has the same sins as they did with Paul. That means the faith hasnt grown at all in all that time!!
My goodness concerning Paul letters it’s called progressive revelation he’s being thought by a resurrected man THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD
Do your own unbiased research. Don't believe everything on the internet. Too much at stake if you miss it. Go to the sources yourself
I’m amazed he’d use “I wrote a book and I don’t start the introduction that way therefore Matthew couldn’t have been written by Matthew.” That’s not the way to approach historical credibility at all. I expected better.
He gave a clear example why Matthew did not write "Matthew." The title "according to Matthew" was put later into the text and "Matthew" writes about Matthew in Mt 9 9. Not a single passage indictates that the author was Matthew or an eyewitness.
The Spirit of God simply is God [almighty] who is a spirit. The almighty God is transcendent, MISSING "the world has not known you". However the almighty God is able to be present here (and in heaven) with his words and actions. That God is present but is also absent, NOBODY is actually here. This is why He is called a "Spirit". He is the Spirit of God , aka Holy Spirit.
I read them thru , the pastorals, once more just for this occation. And i noticed the tone of word is differant, also the depht of content is rather shallow in the pastorals, nothing deep like galatians (abraham had two sons, one with slave woman hagar and another with the free woman sarah) or hebrews (priesthood of melchesidek) . The pastorals introduce a set of rules , do this do that, and makes the no different that other religions, one has to please God to be "worthy thru deeds". Titus 2.2-4, titus 1.6-7, 1tim5.9-12 rediculus list of how a widow shall be treated.
Concerning the coppermith Alexander that he doesnt like, 2tim 4.14 what exactly did they debate would be more relevant than just cursing his name .
2tim3.5 he lists people you should not accociate with, violent and unreasonable people. But didnt Jesus say, the sick needs a doctor not those who were healthy?
Even if its a forgery, the author may have had honourable mission in mind, and i dont think the author is paul. The letters are written in Rome it also says, if anything of it is true of it, 2tim 1.17. then one can speculate if these passages are written by the proto catholic schizm, the early church fathers.
1:07:00 Immaculate conception . Its a total misunderstanding that sex is a sin . or original sin, and that Mary or Josef are saints and even Anna(?) Marys mother didnt pass "sin" onto Mary . for what IS the sin that was conveyed to Adam and Eva via eating the fruit . it was Not wearing clothes and . one more thing, they Knew Right from WRONG ! thats the original sin, knowing good and evil, before eating that fruit, they didint know good and evil. there is NO WAY we can get rid of this "knowing good and evil" for It is written, gods laws is ENGRAVED on our hearts now, Its the circumcision of the heart . And thats our sin, knowing good and evil. The whole point is misunderstood, for the point is not about Mary, or if shes clean or whatever, the point is the God Father in Heaven is the Father of Jesus, and our Father too . If your concerned with doing what Jesus said, listen what he said to the pharasees, you think you have eternal life in studying the scriptures ? No, rather believe in him that God sent, and his commands are two, Love one another and Love god . We are saved by faith and not by the letters . Who saw what and who did what of the apostles is not important . Love one another, he even said love your enemy .
Jacob is very ghostly in colour, he looks like an apparition that has just come back from the dead.😱
Indeed, it's a bit creepy...
Jacob looks like a ghost 👻
He is using bulbs which 'save planet earth' - bart is under daylight and studio tungstens, and reflective screen-light used between them
Jacob is very ghostly in color.
He looks like an apparition which has come back from the dead. 😱
Who wrote the book of Ephesians?
All about selling some nutty book. Not buying it.
It's hardly counterintuitive or surprising a feminist scholar would want to find the anti-female passage in First Corinthians to be original!
It confirms the misogyny of Paul, an ostensible presumptive goal within the 'apologia' of Pagels, King, et.al.!!!😅
Except that Bart says its not written by Paul
THIS IS FOR JACOB, JAMES AND BART:
YAHWEH’S WORD HID: This was supposed to happen as you can see.
ACTS 10:36-37
36 The word which YAHWEH sent unto the children of Judaea, preaching peace/THE WORD by YAHWEH MESSIAH (he is MASTER OF ALL:)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
Amos 8:11,12
11. Behold, the days come, saith Yahweh, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the Words of Yahweh.
12. And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the Word of Yahweh, and shall not find it.
Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth about Yahweh for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised.
IT WAS OUR FOREFATHERS WHO DID NOT BELIEVE IN THE DAYS OF PETER AND PAUL AND WE INHERITED THEIR LIES.
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Isaiah 60:1-3
1. Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the righteousness of Yahweh is risen upon thee.
2. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but Yahweh shall arise upon thee, and His righteousness shall be seen upon thee.
3. And the Gentiles shall come to Thy light, and kings to the brightness of Thy rising.
Romans 11: 8 IS TO THE JEWS:
Romans 11: 8 (According as it is written, Yahweh hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Isaiah 25:7
7: And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people and the veil that is spread over all nations. Mount Zion during the Millennial Kingdom.
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Jeremiah 16:19 Yahweh, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
*13. Scriptures were made a lie by Constantine and Jerome. There are no originals unless the Vatican is sitting on them and why through study people are trying to bring about more truth from them.
The Roman Empire under Constantine and others had over one thousand years from 14, 25, or 40, generations of people, and that depends on how many years makes a generation though, some say: 70 years, 40 years, and 25 years, to perpetuate the lie of Jesus Christ too. The following is how it was done:
1. Mixed pagan religions including Judaism = Christianity.
2. Added pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter to influence pagans to come over to Christianity.
3. Collected all existing manuscripts and had anyone killed who possessed them.
4. Took Yahweh's name out of the Scriptures, the only name for salvation, and filled scriptures with all kinds of pagan deity names and pagan words from paganism.
5. Took the truth of Scriptures and made them a lie, mostly by putting Pagan Deity names and words into Scriptures to make them more acceptable to the Pagan culture and to the uneducated masses to come over to Christianity.
6. Put Scriptures in a language the common and uneducated did not know (Latin) and taught it.
7. Have anyone who does not come over to Christianity killed because it was the only religion allowed at that time.
8. Constantine and many persecutors before and after him had many book burnings, to hide the real truth.
9. All books were rewritten during that time and there were many forgeries, by doing this they also changed history from what it really was. Christianity has changed the histories of many countries just to cover up the Christian lie. Even the truth of the scriptures was made a lie.
What Pagan Rome has done with their Christianity was to make the Scriptures the "Word of God" which made void the "Word of Yahweh", which makes the Scriptures void of salvation and they know this.
They were never Christians and were proven by scriptures. Paul was never a pagan Christian or any of the other believers in Yahweh Messiah.
YOU KNOW THE BOOK OF CLEMENTS IS A LIE OF ROME, THEY HAVE MADE SO MANY BOOKS FOR THEIR DECEIT.
Exactly, it was Rome
@@SopranoJessi It was Rome and still is Rome and why you have Jesuit-trained idiots like James and Bart, then the ignorant like Jacob.
Great talk, but once again, the historical Jesus question is laughed off. I get these old scholars being outmoded, but just laughing off good research by mischaracterizing it is making me question these guys, especially the ones who still think Q is real.
1:37:39 to be specific, IF Codex Bezae provides the earliest reading in Luke 3,22 You are my beloved Son this day I have begotten thee - then notice how the One begotten in this day was the bodily form of the Spirit, called “the Christ”. It would refer to THAT son, which is a smoking gun that the Gnostics early on tampered with Luke.