Early Christian Texts & The Making of Hell
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มิ.ย. 2024
- Guest: Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the author of Journeys to Heaven and Hell: Tours of the Afterlife in the Early Christian Tradition
It's simple. I see Bart and I click.
Bart must be in big demand. He's on all the atheist-agnostic podcasts.
@@raydavison4288 Because he is trained to deceive. Professors and Dr., beware of.
One of the reasons people misrepresent God / are confused about God are the horrible translation errors in our bibles made by clerks of "a certain denomination".
They had no clue about God's intend, so made it fit their conviction.
Luckely the original line is clearly visible.
1: God created us after His own image and likeness. Gen 1:27.
2: Man fell. That is what you see in this world: lust, greed, selfishness, strange philosophies, sicknesses, corruption, terrorism, death, etc, etc. Genesis 3.
3: God, the spirit of life, manifests fully in Christ, pays the debt for mankinds fall so we can be indwelled again by His Spirit and be transformed back to origin. John 14-17.
Pure grace, love, power of God for His creation.
Hence the divine healing miracles and casting out of demons His first friends, i and many others experience up to this day!
Some examples of these idiotic translation errors.
Saved, from the Greek "Sozo" actually means: made complete, brought back to origin.
Eternal life from the Greek "Zoë" means: life of God, divine life.
"You will see Jesus coming on the clouds" actually reads: "You will perceive Jesus from a heavenly perspective"... who He is, what He did, who you are IN Him.
"Everyone not found in the book of life will be thrown in the lake of fire" actually reads: "Everything not found in the book of life....". Jesus is the book of life, the word made flesh, the exact image of the invisible God. Through Him every lie we believed about God and ourselves will vanish into thin air. 2 cor 3:18, col 3:10. Etc. Holy Spirit brings forth after His own kind.
Wrath from the Greek "Orge" means PASSION. So there is no wrath of God upon mankind. God IS love!
Wrath from the Greek "Thumos" also means PASSION. There goes the "bowls of wrath" poured out by God over humanity... it's "bowls of boisterous PASSION through Christ" that are poured outt!!!
Kpicic. Translated in to judgement, actually reads: "to put straight, a positive judgement. After all the Father judges no-one and the Son took upon Himself all judgement. For... God is love.
Parousia. Tranlated as "second comming", means GODS IMMEDIATE PRESENCE.
Etc, etc, etc, look it up in the Kittel Theological Dictionary or in any Greek/Hebrew Strong's app. It's there.
So now we have ignorant preachers parotting the lie that we have to be saved from God's wrath by Jesus (who is God....) and "have to repent or go to hell and wait for the bus that gets us to heaven". Utter nonsense.
In stead it is: God restores us through Christ by His own atoning blood sacrifice and indwelling Holy Spirit, from mankind's fall, to His own image and likeness (Christlikeness) because of... passion.
For God so loved the world....
God cannot be tempted to do evil....
There is no turning or shifting with Him....
If you don't love you don't know God, for God is love....
The goal of all instruction is... love
The Father Himself loves you....
Jesus healing all..... love
Jesus raising the dead..... love
Jesus casting out demons.... love
Jesus controlling nature..... love
If wrath would be in God, it would be the tenth fruit of the Spirit.... and it is not!
So... we're made for God's image and likeness Gen 1:27. Man and woman He made them. That got lost in mankinds fall. Hence all confusion, sicknesses, allien doctrines, egoism, etc, etc. Gen 3. Now God stooped down in Christ to, by His perfect sacrifice and Holy Spirit, transforms us back to.... Gen 1:27. John 14-17.
God already came full circle. Yay!
For us to embrace His Spirit and be changed back to original created value, by His Spirit.
@@raydavison4288do you believe in preaching to the choir
@@herminepursch2470: 🤔
I hope Bart knows how much he's appreciated.
I hope so too. He's been very helpful for me deconstructing some fundamental fire and brimstone hell trauma. If I ever see him in person he's getting a big hug.
@@marionfowler4270 me too. Unless he's good with a fist bump. 🤓
I love Bart he understands Christians deconverting
Yes! He has more credibility with me since he was a preacher first...he knows what it's like to lose faith....but gain truth
I personally think that the idea of the lake of fire is derived from the Egyptian funerary tradition and mythology of the journey though the afterlife. It is said that if the heart weighed more than the feather the soul would experience a second death. The second death included having the souls heart fed to a beast, while the soul is destroyed in the eternal burning lake of fire. If you were lucky enough to have been buried with the scarab beetle figurine which prevents the heart from testifying against the soul, the journey would continue on to the field of reeds where they would live out eternity.
To my knowledge, the Greeks were educated in Egypt and borrowed heavily from their teachers.
This is very interesting; thanks for your comment. Can you give some references where I might read up on this? Thank you.
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... thank you so much for this amazing talk ... I eagerly look forward to purchasing Prof. Ehrman's books ...
I have to comment again. This was great. Thank you LaP and Bart.
Wow very interesting, a wonderful interview.
Amazing as Always.
You have the reality we live in which is shadows on a cave, according to Plato, but Hades is another step lower, where you are a shadow of the shadow of the life you lived. Bart really is a groovy guy.
Thanks for having Bart. Aside from breath-taking scholarship, his humor is hilarious.
ever heard him laugh
What exactly is breathtaking about his scholarship?
He's an atheist for hire pushing self-debunking pseudo-intellectual nonsense on his gullible amen choir.
Always a pleasure to listen to Bart.❤️
Mitch, just found your channel. You're an excellent interviewer. Excellent production. I love Dr Ehrman. Really appreciate your interview. Subscribed. What a list of interviews!!
Ahem, same here
I like the conversation at the end about the Greek word "ecclesia". I found it fascinating that the word that's commonly translated to "church" in the New Testament isn't a word that means physical buildings, but rather the gathering of people. Some of the earliest churches were modeled on basilicas, which were Roman buildings--usually built near forums--meant for public use and hosted a gathering of citizens for courts and other civic functions. Basilicas were modeled after stoas in the Greek-speaking world, which served a similar purpose since Classical Greece; an inside-area--alongside the agora or marketplace--where people gathered to discuss ideas, engage in religious services, or any number of other functions.
Interesting as hell. Literally!
Perhaps heavenly discussion?
Listened this morning. Always enjoy the program!
The reason women braid their hair is to keep it from tangling.
Bart, I love your books. My favorite was How Jesus Became God. I read it three times. It really shaped my life. Thank you.
Bart isn’t right. Proof? He has a worldly degree and God doesn’t require them. He doesn’t hear God alone. Is he right about the scriptures? Yes!
@@theartzscientist8012 Where do you think Bart has erred?
@@soslothful in his lack of knowing God at all. He’s in his own understanding. He doesn’t hear God.
@@theartzscientist8012 In essence he does not affirm your ideas about God. Perhaps your ideas are mistaken? More importantly remember Ehrman's scholarship is as a historian, not a theologian. Finally, your reply only states your opinion Ehrman is wrong. You do not cite any specifics.
@@soslothful I have a calling or anointing from God himself. Erhman doesn’t. This is the difference.
This was a good interview
Only God is Good
@@TheLionFarm cute
I've been a Christian all my life 72 years. Hmm. I guess not many Christians are going to get to be saved. I gave it all up 5 years ago when I found so many people in the Bible , thousands were exterminated by God. Even little children and babies. I don't know what I'd call myself now. I love listening to your blogs, and Mythvision. I really enjoy now not having to pretend to believe. This is freedom. Thank you Sir😊
I really enjoyed the interview. Bart has such a wonderful way of explaining and crafting a narrative.
The implication of this is that someone has fraudulently decided that we are a special creation that has a soul, and eliminated the actual words of what Genesis says. Now all other animals don't have a soul. According to the story, all things that live have a soul. So what happened here? Forgery. That's what happened.
Chalk one up for vegetarians.
There Was No Continuous Hebrew Monotheistic Culture
When Yahveh appeared to Moses in the Burning Bush, and announced himself as "the God of thy fathers," he was a total stranger to Moses. How do I know? Read the account. It doesn't take a scholar to read where Moses ASKS who's taking. No, Moses wasn't merely surprised at the voice…he simply didn't know what was going on. (The fact that Moses is just a rehash of the Egyptian Mises is another essay altogether. But for the purposes of this essay, I'm pretending that Moses was a real person.)
Moses did not know this Yahveh, and had never heard of him. So that he asked, "What is thy name?" -so that he could report it to the people back home in Egypt, who had never heard it. After some intermission, the God came directly to the point, and declared-here are the exact words-one of the most notorious falsities in the Hebrew text:
"And elohim spake unto Moses, and said unto him., anoki Yahveh -- I am the Lord!
"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of el-shaddai, but by my name Yahveh (JEHOVAH) was I not known to them." (Ex. 6:2, 8.)
The Hebrew God for the first time since the world began, is "revealed" to mankind the "ineffable name" of Yahveh, here first appearing in the Bible translations, and there printed as JEHOVAH in capital letters; for more vivid and awe-inspiring impression.
But this is a notorious lie-since we known that Moses did not write the first five books of the Hebrew text.
In Genesis 2:4, the name YAHVEH first appears; "in the day that Yahveh-elohim made the earth and the heavens." Its first recorded use as a mystical personage, was when Eve "conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from Yahveh-the Lord." (Gen. 4:1.)
The personal name YAHVEH occurs in the Book of Genesis one hundred and fifty-six times. It's spoken dozens of times by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as any one can read in Genesis. Every single time that the title "the Lord" and "the Lord God" appears, it is a false translation by the priests for the Hebrew personal name YAHVEH.
Throughout the Hebrew "scriptures" it occurs thousands of times: "The sacred name occurs in Genesis ~156 times; and is found in the Old Testament approximately 6000 times, either alone or in along with another Divine name."
More exactly, the Tetragrammaton (YHVH), appears in the Old Testament 6823 times as the proper name of God as the God of Israel. As such it serves to distinguish him from the gods of the other nations." Thus was the Hebrew tribal god YAHVEH distinguished from Bel, and Chemosh, and Dagon, and Shamash, and the dozens of "gods of the nations". Just as James would distinguish his name from Rudolph, or Cary, this was precisely the Hebrew usage-to distinguish one heathen god from another.
@@edwardlouisbernays2469 thank you for your post. Why did you post? What are you trying to say ? Why do you use the letter “V” instead of “W”?
Bart is one of my favorite writers and speakers. Thank you.
Just make sure you don't follow him into the abyss, from which there is no return, on Judgment Day. On that day there will be overwhelming joy for some, overwhelming sadness for others, and overwhelming anger (gnashing of teeth) for others.
@@asmartbajan I tend to believe that if there was a God, he would not torture most of his creation for thought crimes.
These are scare tactics. I kind of pity you if you still believe in such things.
@@redshiftexperiment Looks like you will be among the angry on that day. But you won't have any real justification to be angry with Him. We are in the Age of Grace. Take full advantage of that, because the opportunity to do so will not be there in the next age. Our lives in this realm are incredibly short - less than 3 billion seconds for the great majority of us. Conversely, the life to come is eternal. *Choose wisely.*
@@asmartbajan since you believe in hell I would be a bit more careful if I were you. YOU WILDLY CURSE ME TO SAY THAT I WILL BE DAMNED TO HELL! BITE YOUR TONGUE YOU ARROGANT LITTLE MAN! I hope your sure of yourself that I dont have the spirit of God in me. Because for a believer like you, more caution should be taken.
"Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but (O)the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word (P)against the Son of Man (Q)will be forgiven, but (R)whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in (S)this age or in the age to come."
@@asmartbajan prove it lmao
Wild. I’ve listened to your show on kpfk numerous times over the years. It’s weird seeing you out in the wild.
As a christian, i love Bart's work. To me he brings back so much biblical clarity away from 'Church Gospel'. Yes, heaven and Hell are constructs created by later church/pagan fathers, not from the words of Christ nor from the bible forefathers. Again thank you Bart Ehrman.
You can analyze the work of the "forefathers" just as well and you will discover just as much bullshit in it. The Christ is, of course, an invention. Jesus was real. He was an apocalyptic preacher and an idiot who got himself killed by the Romans. Beyond that it's pretty much all fairytale.
*"...heaven and Hell are constructs created by later church/pagan fathers...."* You are absolutely correct. When I try to explain that to church folk they generally look at me like I have a forked tongue and cloven hooves.
Very good conducted interview. Prof Ehrman is able to clarify without oversimplifying. Quite the opposite in fact.
Thank God for this man
@@snowymountain9305 what is a bot?
@@snowymountain9305 and may God Bless you with knowledge. As I think you know and understand Scripture can I ask you what do you make of Isaiah 53 ?
@@snowymountain9305 I thank you for coming back to me but my question is quite simple and would be grateful of a straight answer first please then I would be glad to move on to your questions
@@snowymountain9305 now I understand you are in my opinion on the wrong path and been misled by people who have made it christialogical and suited to mislead by incorrect translation. Please refer to Rabbi Tovia Singer for a clear simple explanation of the chapter. I take it you do not understand Hebrew then you would understand unless you wanted to deceive others then I would say goodbye. This is where the apostasy in the church will come from people understanding that they have been lied to. I would imagine that you have merely attended Bible studies with no previous experience and been brainwashed. Isiah 53 does not speak of the future at all.
Dude! Mastreo V Bart D. Ehrman series on Christianity I have watched Many Many times. Impressive scholar
Plato does not get nearly enough credit for his 4th-5th century B.C.E. contribution to Jewish and Christian depictions of Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus and eternal punishment that were written centuries after his dialogues, Phaedo, Gorgias, Republic, etc.🔥🔥🔥🤔
In reference to the Greek, Homeric concept of the afterlife,what wasn't mentioned was the Elysian Fields, which contrasts with the rather bleak depiction of Hades as a pleasantly blissful afterlife. The Greeks were as fuzzy as the Hebrew concept as to what to expect as well as some clear instructions on how to exercise control over one's final destiny.
I think the Elysian fields was a later development.
I have read the entire "Commedia"(English translation, of course). "Inferno" is the most interesting by far. "Purgatorio" & "Paradiso" can be tedious at times. 😇
Thank God for the Enlightenment.
The Holocausts of the 20th century had nothing to do with that, obviously.
Bart is just a happy going guy good to see laughter once in a while
After listening to this interview I read parts of the apocalypse of Peter for the first time. How sick and twisted were they back then to imagine and write passages like these, twisted minds perverted by religious doctrine. It’s took 2000 years to even start recovering from these abhorrent fantasies and we’ve still got a long way to go before we are freed from them.
Tell me more. What did you read that was so sick and twisted? Let me know.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 the way it explicitly describes the eternal suffering of the dead. It’s backwards and perverse
That's nothing. Augustine and subsequent writers described the schadenfreude of the angels watching the torturing of the damned in hell.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 Read it for yourself.
@@curbroadshow No, I can't be bothered. You're a bit of a curmudgeon, aren't you? Are you a Fundy Xristian full to overflowing with God's love?
Dr Ehrman is the man! We're so lucky to have the access we do to great scholars like Bart.
As being a western lost in his illusions.
@@user-pj7sq7ce1f tell me, what illusions do all "westerns" believe? I also can't wait to hear about how you have access to all of these peoples' illusions. Do tell!
@@user-pj7sq7ce1fWhat about your illusions
Bart is a fresh air for Christianity
Bart destroys christ-stain-inanity for intelligent, rational people.
You don't really think you're rational do you
Mitch, thanks for presenting Dr. Ehrman. He's a great and articulate scholar.
No he is NOT
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, which after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, Fear him.
READ EZEKIEL 32
@@TheLionFarm : Yes, he is! Try reading something other than the mythical and superstitious book.
Great interview. Great channel. You should check out NT Wright too
Hell is where we are (overcrowded); Heaven is where we are not. Choose one
Yes!!! Thank you!!! 1Nation4Life
Mitch was a great interviewer
The popular Christian conception of heaven and hell is remarkably similar to the Buddhist description of these realms. There are a lot of flipped parallels between the two traditions. The meaning of "醍醐" and "Christ" is one of them.
Not really. I mean, the idea of reward for the just and punishment for the unjust in the afterlife has been reinvented by several cultures over the years. Buddhist narakas are actually rather distinct from Christian hells when understood in this broader context. Christian Hell has more in common with Egyptian, Hellenic, and Zoroastrian places of punishment.
It sounds like you do not know much about Buddhism. It also looks like you do not have the guts to respond when you are challenged on your incorrect information.
Really like Bart’s new glasses
I get the impression that Bart is very happy.
@The Arduous Sierra Divide
Fame and fortune might have something to do with it.
@@tedgrant2How much fame and fortune do you have
Amazing how unbelievable the acumulative total of everything equalling one word "All". Whereas naturally within is "All Power" and "All Knowledge". Where as "All Laws" root from. The Laws of Motion. Which necessarily had application prior of material materializing.
Exactly Three laws descibing the One Concept. Motion. The Lord of Hosts.
How can one be joyful in heaven when their loved ones isn’t there but in torment for eternity? I believe that those in heaven would be in hell themselves to see and witness that
Let's say all your "loved ones" made it in the door to heaven, but some of their "loved ones" didn't. - - - Would that mean that you could be "joyful" in heaven, but some of your "loved ones" would have their "heaven" ruined for them, by being unable to be "joyful" in heaven? ? ?
There's no validity for relationships in afterlife... Each person is responsible for himself only...
Their mind will be so at one with God's that they will care as much about those people as God does.
@@nasishehim must be a sociopath
@@nasishehim there is no validity in relationships in the afterlife? The afterlife is the recreation of the new earth, which is patterned after Eden. Adam and Eve did not have a relationship? God created each of us to have a relationship
Gradation of reward? Like when the priest gets a Ford and the rabbi gets a Lincoln because the rabbi is related to the boss.
soul-body separation yess a Greek concept - origins of Aristotles' sway over theology as well
Constantine/Rome didn’t take over control of the church at the time of the conference at Nicea - but wasn’t it so that at this stage the Christian church had their meeting places provided for by the Roman Empire and from then on they were beholden to the Secular state for funds, favor etc. and thereby made themselves willingly the servants of Rome from that time on into the present?
What makes religious/spiritual beliefs distinguishable from that of mere make-believe?
It's ultimately a matter of make-believe, of individual interpretation.
I prefer the tour of "hell" and "heaven" in Vergil's Aeneid. Everyone who is punished or rewarded is just there long enough to forget their old life and then they are reborn on Earth.
Christians will sometimes claim to understand why someone might want to invent heaven but ….WHO, they ask, would ever invent “hell”? The answer is, of course, for all the people you don’t like!
“We are the pure and chosen few
and all the rest are damned.
There’s room enough in hell for you;
we don’t want heaven crammed.”
Comic book stories always have some element of truth, they should not be taken too seriously.
All religious texts share the same tradition as any superhero story.
Adolescent ridicule. Well done.
I'd pay to watch Dr. Erhman debate Christian Prince on Christianity.
Bart would destroy Christian Prince on New Testament studies.
Christian Prince is not fluent in Koine Greek.
30:00 smh
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom you shall fear: Fear him, which after he has killed has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, Fear him.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
How much do the Christian versions of hell rely on Platos story of El?
Who could believe in such an impossibly cruel and sadistic deity? Utter nonsense.
Hell is a pretty natural conclusion for what to do with anyone who is undesirable to the Kingdom of Heaven. And of course, the clergy would make the thing more emotional.
Although demons only appear on Earth in the Bible, so they are completely unconnected with Hell in the Bible.
Bart should do a dismantling of Swedenborg's writings
Before watching this I was hoping Bart Ehrman could explain some details that would help me finally conclude that hell is not real, so that if I wanted to I could kill myself. But what happened is 42:20 , I realized hell is definitely not real, but life is more precious than I had acknowledged, because this really is all we have. That makes me want to live until my time is up naturally, rather than take matters into my own hands.
That's kinda amazing
hey man I just wanna say whether u come to the conclusions hell is or isn't real to not take your life man. I'm sure people love and care about you and that's a really heavy thing for people's families or friends when a love one does that. you have alot to live for, don't miss out on it.
Why in the world would you think hell was real? Was it because a few religious fanatics decided to write fiction on papyrus and pass it around?
Hell is real. There has to be a place for child molesters and sinners.
Oh, and don’t kill yourself! You are valued by God.
Please share my two brief videos with other people. Thank you!
Something they didn't touch on the last segment, is Jesus used to teach in Aramaic, the gospels were written for a Greek speaking audience, so they are supposed to be translations, but in Aramaic the word "rock" is nothing like Simon, nor Peter, so there is slim to none probability that Jesus really said that.
"Hell" came from Greek mythology. This isn't mentioned that much in the Torah, barely in psalms, certainly not the way christians talk about it with fire and stuff.
It was originally the "weeping and gnashing of teeth", I think, no doubt accompanied by the rending of garments. The threats of hell were used to stop you coveting your lord's money, his wife or indeed his ass.
The equivalent to hades in the Christian scriptures is sheol. There’s no change.
The only weird mention is one of Jesus’ parables where he says that someone that had been rich dies and is suffering and speaking to Abraham. But other than that, Jesus and the apostles taught that the dead were just dead.
@@heyalun Most of it was reversal of the idea of heaven. Heaven was above, so it was bright, airy, offering a clear view of everything and everyone. It was basically inherited from the Greek idea of Mount Olympus.
Hell was obviously below ground and magma coming through volcanic eruptions was a clear indication of what was below. It was unbearably hot, crowded with millions of sinners reincarnated for torture, and dark except for the blazing fires of magma. The environment of hell, minus the demons torturing the multitudes of unrepentant sinners, is pretty much the same as the conditions which exist in the mantle layer of the earth.
@@anonUK ok, but that’s not the biblical presentation. That may be a later development, but biblically dead people are dead, not “reincarnated.”
@@heyalun
Well, they could feel the pain of the tortures, otherwise there wouldn't be much point having them. Maybe "reincarnated" is the wrong word but certainly, the threat of hell was designed to involve heat and pain.
I'm made intensely curious about the teasingly out of focus painting behind Bart. And did I hear correctly? Did Bart state Constentine did not make Christianity the official religion of the Empire?
Yes. He says that at the 10:39 mark.
So in the gospel of Nicodemus did Christ also save those from an infinite number of other worlds going back 13 billion years?
He’s not expounding on the literal power and existence of the Holy Spirit
Great man and info, 'but a little less laughing and a little more knowledge, please' most of his interview is taken up with his laughter 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 I bought his book , very expensive , but it's fantastic well worth the price .
If there’s a special place in hell for bad christians, what does that say about the doctrine’s effectiveness in influencing people to behave morally? Thanks for giving me another reason to convert to Judaism.
interestingly enough, no near-death experiences ever report visiting hell. One is inclined to think the only hell there is, is one of our own, or others', making. A universe dominated by love would not have any room for a hell in it.
Not quiet there are a minority of NDE's that are bad.
There are loads on You Tube, mostly by people who later write books. Just type the words, I Died and Went to Hell.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 But they did not actually die they may of been near death but not actually dead.
Also they could of been on certain drug's or medicine that induce vivid dream's as such these experiences are not realable.
@@chiricahuaapache5132 Also people can lie with an NDE and what their experience was and people can misunderstand an experience they had.
Actually, there are a fair number of NDEs having a "bad" experience, including "hellish" places. Something like 11%. Like the "good" NDEs reported, there are endless variations on these accounts, so it's hard to take away anything concrete. Also, people may be less likely to report these, for obvious reasons.
There are references to the afterlife in the Old Testament.
Job said, For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms shall destroy my body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. (Job 19:25-27)
The prophet said, And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)
The Psalmist wrote, But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth. (Psalm 63:9)
Also we read, For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. (Psalm 86:13)
The words ‘lower parts of the earth’ and ‘lowest hell’ speak of different degrees of punishment as confirmed in the New Testament when Jesus spoke of some people’s judgment as being more tolerable while others would receive the greater damnation (ref. Matthew 10:15, Matthew 23:14).
Jesus spoke of hell to the Jews in the account of Lazarus and the rich man as found in Luke 16:19-31. He made many reference to a literal hell on a number of occasions (Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, etc.)
God provided a way for us sinners to escape his just wrath in hell by sending his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to suffer for our sins, his innocent blood shed, that we might be forgiven (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Each person is called to put their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby receive the gift of eternal life (Romans 6:23).
Mostly true, but you're confusing the translation of hell with what was actually said in Hebrew and Greek.
The traditional view of hell as a fiery cauldron of punishment has been taught for centuries. Perhaps one of the earliest to expound this view among Christians was the Catholic theologian Tertullian, who lived around A.D. 160-225
Hades. The KJV translates ᾅδης (hades) and Γέεννα (Gehenna) both as "hell", unlike modern versions of the bible which transliterate ᾅδης as 'Hades'. KJV onlyists criticize that the idea of Hades being separate from hell is an idea from Paganism and not biblical.
I think it's a pretty big tell that God isn't behind Christianity when Judaism has no conception of an afterlife or heaven and hell in its scriptures. That's pretty central to Christianity and even Islam. Why would that be omitted? Not to mention the peculiar coincidence that the ideas of heaven and hell are related to Zoroastrianism and other beliefs in the mid-5th century BC + time period.
There are references to the afterlife in the Old Testament.
Job said, For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms shall destroy my body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. (Job 19:25-27)
The prophet said, And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Daniel 12:2)
The Psalmist wrote, But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth. (Psalm 63:9)
Also we read, For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell. (Psalm 86:13)
The words ‘lower parts of the earth’ and ‘lowest hell’ speak of different degrees of punishment as confirmed in the New Testament when Jesus spoke of some people’s judgment as being more tolerable while others would receive the greater damnation (ref. Matthew 10:15, Matthew 23:14).
Jesus spoke of hell to the Jews in the account of Lazarus and the rich man as found in Luke 16:19-31. He made many reference to a literal hell on a number of occasions (Matthew 10:28, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, etc.)
God provided a way for us sinners to escape his just wrath in hell by sending his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to suffer for our sins, his innocent blood shed, that we might be forgiven (John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Each person is called to put their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and thereby receive the gift of eternal life (Romans 6:23).
@@sdlorah6450 I appreciate all the quotes. But it still seems extremely scant in the Hebrew Bible. The Jewish belief is nothing like what Christians believe, which is mostly apocalyptic
@@AB-et6nj Jesus said that salvation is of the Jews (ref. John 4:22) The Son of God was born of the Jews; he was without sin and therefore could be the sacrificial lamb who bore the sins of the whole world (Isaiah 53:4-6). Salvation and all that it means as well as God's wrath in hell are expounded upon in the New Testament. The New Testament makes frequent references to the Old Testament in these explanations.
@@sdlorah6450 But if there was always original sin (because of Adam and Eve) then why didn't God tell the Jews this? Or that their punishment would result in hellfire? Why was it only in Christianity that this was a problem?
@@AB-et6nj Just a sampling of Old Testament verses about God and his wrath are listed above; there are others. Adam and Eve and then Noah and his sons transmitted to their descendants a knowledge of God. God has revealed himself to all in a general sense through creation and men's consciences (see Psalm 19, Romans 2:15). In a special sense, he revealed himself to the Jews, the Old Testament prophets, and writers of scripture to the end of making his plan known to redeem mankind through his Son's sacrificial death. Lastly, he spoke to us through his Son (see Hebrews 1:1-2).
Gentile people (non Jews) living before the completion of the New Testament responded to God's revelation of himself. For example, the men of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah. The queen of the south sought out the wisdom of King Solomon (see Jonah, Matthew 12:41-42). We have the whole counsel of God in the completed Bible; we live AFTER the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. We have much more than the men of Nineveh or the queen of the south had; God said that they will testify against those who rejected Jesus Christ in person in the coming judgment.
For his purposes, God has chosen to reveal truth over time. He has chosen to expound upon truth over time. We can benefit from the work of Jesus Christ on the cross through simple faith in him, receiving eternal life (see Romans 6:23).
Of God, the Bible says, And [he] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us...And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent (Acts 17:26-27, 30). I recommend that you seek God humbly in calling out to his Son for forgiveness, in reading the scriptures for yourself, and in listening to Bible preaching like as can be found in Love Worth Finding with Adrian Rogers.
There is one biblical story that intrigues me, and that is the story of Noah. I think this may be a timeless anecdote that we can apply to any 'knower' of today. It then takes on the form of a kind of collective unconscious prediction, as anyone who followed the trail of truth would ultimately find themselves in the same position as the biblical character, and likely HAS done through the ages; Giordano Bruno, for instance..
This would explain why the story retains an air of credibility. The events unfolding in the story WOULD mimic the real life situation in ANY age, given that the underlying nature of Humans remains roughly the same.
Behaviour is predictable once it wears itself into a pattern, and that in itself is a perfect example of how nature works, at the fundamental level..
Religion itself has, of course, long since been usurped into a weapon of politics, and thus lost any of its face value. ("We don't talk about Bruno!") - But what has been carried inside the 'vehicle', so to speak, are any timeless aspects remaining, those where any relevance to truth can still be found..
A Few Translations
These translations, while only three in number, will change your whole way of thinking about what is being presented in your Bible.
Son of Man: In all three major Semitic languages (Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic) the term barnasha means "human being". Jesus often referred to himself as a human being (28 times in the Gospels). Barnasha comes from bar (son) and nasha (man). The meaning of barnasha has created a lot of confusion in the Gospels. It is impossible to translate the Aramaic term of barnasha literally as "son of man" - and yet most biblical translators have and still do just that to this day. In the Aramaic language the word bar is combined with many other words to create different meanings - most specifically is means a "likeness." For example barabba means "resembles his father". Barhila translated literally would mean "son of power" but in reality it means "soldier". So when we read in the Gospels the phrase "son of man" it should be read correctly as "human being".
Son of God: The word bar means a likeness or resemblance to the suffix word. The Aramaic term that Son of God comes from is bardalaha. Translated literally as "son of God" it does not mean this. Bardalaha in reality means "like God" or "God-like". So when Jesus is referred to as the "Son of God" we should read this correctly as "God-like" or "like God". So what does that tell you about the translation we read in today's Bibles? It tells you that Jesus was not the Son of God - but that he was "God-like". There is a big difference. Jesus himself repeatedly referred to himself as a "human being". The Aramaic reference does not mean one is physically divine - it means there is an important spiritual relationship between God and the man whom is bestowed that phraseology. In addition, don't forget that the Council of Nicea in 325 CE voted to change the human Jesus to a supernatural being. It wasn't until that time that any church thought of Jesus as such.
Only Begotten Son: The world ehedaya is Aramaic. It is very important to understand its meaning when hearing that phrase being bantered about. When we read that Jesus was God's "only begotten son" - it is an incorrect translation of the Aramaic word. The term is found exclusively in the Gospel of John. The phrase we read in English was translated from a Greek word, monogenes. Monos means "single" or "one" and genos means "kind". So the Greek translation originally was with "one-of-a-kind". So where does 'begotten' come from? The Greek word genos is distantly related to the verb gennan which means "to beget". Thus, to translate monogenes as "only begotten" is improper and incorrect--which is an indication of an ill-trained translator being involved with the text. The actual translation should be "unique son" or "one-of-a-kind". The Aramaic word ehedaya means "sole heir" and "the beloved". So when we combine monogenes ehedaya we get "one-of-a-kind, beloved son". That's considerably different from 'only begotten son'.
@@edwardlouisbernays2469 Thanks for the info. The same is occurring everywhere today. The term 'Big Bang' was first used by Sir Fred Hoyle as a rather sarcastic retort to the idea that all of existence could magically appear from 'nothing', as physicists suggest! (The quality of understanding seems to be going backwards!). Then the pope of the time, and with great delight, found it necessary to endorse the idea..
"In fact, it seems that present-day science, with one sweeping step back across millions of centuries, has succeeded in bearing witness to that primordial 'Fiat lux' (Let there be light) uttered at the moment when, along with matter, there burst forth from nothing a sea of light and radiation, while the particles of the chemical elements split and formed into millions of galaxies ... Hence, creation took place in time, therefore, there is a Creator, God exists!" (Pope Pius XII, 1951) Yippee!
Is the Bible more of a manual for creating Heaven on earth or Hell on earth?
When we died we didn’t go straightaway to heaven or hell.Our spirit are stored in a special place above the Earth in heavenly realms.If you are someone who denies the existence of your creator or attributed partner with Him then your soul will stay in the Earth until resurrection day
Liar
That's not what I believe.
There's a difference Between. Lying and expressing your opinion.
you're like the ronnie james dio of religious scholar book writing.
Holy Diver?
@@RichWoods23 😆
The term "Christians" were given by gentiles in Antioch to Jesus followers, not even Paul used that term, Peter used it just once to relate it to persecution. But I don't think neither any apostle developed a theology of "hell", but the had an idea of the underworld where disembodied souls go after death and they are conscious. This idea could have given birth to the idea of hell as punishment for those who reject Jesus Christ. John apostle speaks about Lake of 🔥 fire..this idea is more close to the doctrine of hell.
A psychological truth to ponder when it comes to Christianity and other apocalyptic religions: What you think about, you bring about. That’s so for both good and bad.
49:22 The... Assembly of God? (I wonder if that's where the denomination got it's name.)
Millions are being misled by your twisting of the truth..glad I looked deeper into what your doing
Hi Brandon. I think it might be better to oppose Dr Ehrman's views with arguments rather than unsubstantiated insult.
Hey Christian if you wanna be stubborn and just assume you're right and now try to objectively research them by listening to the arguments of scholars instead of reinforcing your already held belief
Where has Bart twisted the truth? Accusations require citations.
I guess some people just don't have a mind of their own
I had to switch off, got fed up with Ehrman laughing at his own commentary. I've watched a great many of his presentations, have lost the ability to switch off when he does it, I guess it's a nervous thing but it comes across as condescending, even when what he is saying is absolutely right.
Bart d ehrman is good at his translations he dosent understand gnosticism very well but he's a great translater same with Marvin meyer alot of the translations I use for ancient scriptures I read for my channel are mostly from these two
Doesn't understand gnostisicm?
@@latjolajban81 there were many forms of gnosticism and their writing's are full of deeper meanings thus secret teaching gnosticism is not a religion but an alternative to religion the gnostic are mind worshippers they didn't worship a god rather we all make up the cosmic mind of the mother father (energy) itself and that we are the gods living a human experience and that the mother father mind is evolving through us to discover itself before returning home the pleroma (energy or the mother father)
None of us understand completely
EVER SEEN ESTUS PIRKLE AND RON ORMAN'S 1974'S "THE BURNING HELL "?.
No
Great segment with Bart, but way too much
educational information for Sunday school
simpleton Xtians.
Why do you think Christians are simpletons?
@@soslothful
I don't think, I know for certain.
@@r0ky_M Well, that is bold, but you duck posting examples.
@@soslothful
It encounter such Xtian simpletons on a regular basis and their blatant dishonesty is another problem they display.
I’m just worried that what if it really exists? Where do all the bad people go? Stalin and hitler or sinners etc?
Good point John.
@@shaunigothictv1003 thanks
Don't be worried.
Enjoy your life.
Love God and be kind to others.
Where bad people go is. Not your problem
Bart Ehrman appears unaware that in 1 Peter, Jesus on his death went down to preach to the souls in prison and these souls were not saints but rather those who had disobeyed God
so you are telling me that Jesus preached to the physically dead. Moses and Elijah clearly were not physically dead since they appreared to Jesus, while Jesus declared the Father to be God of the living and not of the dead@ישוע הוא המשיח בן האלוהים
@ישוע הוא המשיח בן האלוהים These were the souls of the "saints". The souls in prison were of those who had . . "disobeyed God"
@@snowymountain9305 The book of Ecclesiastes is in the Old Testament which contains some things which are imperfect. In the New Testament we get a fuller revelation of the truth. Blessed are those who come to understand the meaning of the words, "It was said to the men of old ....... but I say this to you."
@@thaddeusdoyle5086 So this God gives the Jewish people as in his chosen people an imperfect and incomplete gospel?
I am sorry but no intelligent god would do this.
It raises an important question as well such as if a God done this before by giving an incomplete gospel what is stopping him from doing it again?
funny how much people have written about things we dont know anything about. is it fear of dead and the unknown?
or is it the prise of human intelligence. we can see what we dont know and make up histories
If Jesus died for our sins, why would there be a judging of sinful people.....I know some people are evil and or wicked so I'm not speaking of those ones, but for ones who just simply sin and err, why would they be judged and tormented FOREVER...
Also I learned that there's no literal burning flames that's meant for people to burn forever rather that, there will be an eternal distructiion for the wicked ones, after all Adam and Eve didn't even burn nor were they tormented FOREVER, but ETERNALLY DESTROYED. If we were born in sin how would it be justfied for us to be eternally tormented for sinning a short while here on Earth, that would NOT make any sense at all, let's say we live 100 years, burning or being tormented FOREVER, would never be in any way a fair punishment at all. One hundred years is by no means a comparison
to FOREVER. This is my understanding from a personal study of the Bible, I know NOTHING FOR CERTAIN, as none of us do.
Good points. Yes, if we all have "original sin" beyond our control, why be tortured eternally for it?
@@MrRezillo why be punished for it at all?
It's in the Bible so it can't be denied. I am a former J W so we HAD to study the Bible, supposedly daily but at least very regularly and I did just that. This is confusing, and I've been saying something was wrong for a few years now, even when I disassociated myself from the J W's. How can we get the TRUTH when there are so many different views about the SCRIPTURES. None of this is making too much sense. I know what I desire to believe and all I can do is hope in that. I can say that I do believe that, there's a CREATOR, and after that I'm pretty much lost.
Hold on. You are trying to make logical sense out of myth and superstition. Good luck with that.
@@cynthiaharvey6155 "It's in the Bible so it can't be denied" Do you really think that? Why?
I heard "Damned forever". I thought Christians believed in redemption and forgiveness?
Same here.
I was under the impression that God heard Jesus' prayer, Father forgive them (us, sinners) for they know not what they do (sin). And as he said it it finished, that mankind was finally redeemed.
Giving the accounts of how many Christians were in hell, and that some of them simply because of doctrinal error, such as seeing Jesus as more of Divine than human. Wow, not sure if I can buy that.
My hat is off to him for his research and and study of Patristics. But not all of the Church fathers held to this view of hell.
The redemption and forgiveness come before you die. Once you are dead, it is too late to repent. That is when the eternal damnation begins. Telling this story to children is child abuse, regularly practiced by all Christians.
@@timproffit7861
If Jesus is the father the son and the holy Spirit, why did he need to "pray" to God? He's literally just talking to himself
btw, Billions of people are doing the same thing today
@@darfcrow He is not the Father, nor is he the Holy Spirit, so of course he dialogs with the Father. They are one but not the same. Look at John17
@@timproffit7861I come from the Catholic faith. They DEF believe in the Trinity. Even though it was conceived of in the 14th century. They don't let facts get in the way of a good story!
Didn't the Zoroastrians also have concepts of resurrection, judgement, heaven and hell? Could have come into Judaism even before the Hellenization.
I've never heard any reasoning as to what keeps people in heaven from ever sinning while there. For billions and trillions of years...not one slip up of sin. Do they not have free will once in heaven? How it is different from the Earthly paradise God created, that produced sin immediately with Adam and Eve.
This is the inherent nature of flesh verses the desire to follow the Will of God. If we have a natural desire to follow the Will of God then when all temptation is removed, it should come naturally.
If you can trust a Catholic priest on the matter then, no, we can't sin in heaven. He described heaven to me as a place where we are all gathered around god's glory in eternal bliss. I was eight years old at a time. Guess what happens if you tell an eight year old kid with ADHD that heaven is the place where he has to sit still and look at a giant lightbulb all day long? You make an eight year old hard atheist in an instant. :-)
@@RomanPaganChurch And there is the person who doesn't know how the bible defines "sin". Don't worry, none of you have ever found the passage. It's too obvious to be visible to the religious. ;-)
@@lepidoptera9337 ✴ _Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin._ (James 4: 17; KJV)
@@IsaacNussbaum You just made a fool of yourself, kid. Good job! ;-)
Having said that, at least you made one of the more interesting entries in this contest. Most people didn't get even that far.
Explain Isaha 45:7
it proves that jahova made evil not satan
Shameful bigotry of not giving the fiery Hell of the Egyptians who were the rulers of the Canaanite lands far longer than the Greeks, any recognition. Nor the book of Enoch.
Agreed.
Best friend? That was Achilles' lover. 🤦🏼
We're adults and educated. Don't patronize.
Of course, all writings about hell by the authors of the Bible are pure speculation and supposition. None of them were ever there. What Paul thought he saw may or may not be reliable. But Jesus always wanted his listeners to focus on the positive, love, truth, beauty, and goodness.
So if all of these books were just fiction why pay any attention to any of them?
I guess there are several main reasons:
1. Like it or not, they are a significant influence (albeit indirect and now highly mediated) on our cultural life and political and legal structures etc.
2. Myths like these are often very good guides to the desires and repressions of the human psyche. (They are often just interesting stories too!)
3. It is useful to be aware when encountering apologetics.
Jesus is a human. Christ is the spirit which is in us all, as I have understood it. Is this wrong?
Maybe - after thousands of years of theological speculation (including some of the worser ones of Augustine, and Calvin, say) and debate, @Ana Franklin - and on monophysitism vs diphysitism, it's possible your guess is as good as many others' were, by this stage.
And Christ is a title, generally - it means christened, or anointed.
If Jesus is human then why did He accept worship as God?
@@chris93703…did he?
This guy is infinitely better than Meghan.
Re: the Harrowing of Hell - is there any soul in Hell who would not want to get out? Maybe Satan himself, King of the Dead Souls. LOL
What in the HELL, has bible quoting ever done for humanity? Absolutely nothing. Create a miracle and we'll talk...
These extra biblical books demonstrate what lies people will tell in the name of religion. The NT is no different than the rest of them. Lies everywhere
Jesus goes to Hades? So he just decided to visit his old buddy the Greek god of the underworld?
Interesting.
Also, anybody else notice the similarities between "Hell" and the Germanic goddess of the dead, Hel/Hella?
Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole idea of "Hell" stems from the Germanic tribes that were giving the Romans such fits - and who ultimately finished off the Roman Empire.
I mean, really... does it seem like so far-fetched a notion that when the bible was being put together, that the Roman Catholic Church would say something like "A place of punishment? Hmm... how 'bout we 'borrow' that bit about the underworld from those damned barbarians that we never managed to conquer?"
The New Testament was written in Greek. The Greek word "Hades" was used when referring to underworlds in general by the ancient Greeks, not just the Greek underworld, sort of in the same way that they called Thoth "Hermes." The Aramaic (and Hebrew) word that gets translated to Greek as "Hades" is "Sheol," which was more of a poetic term for the land of the dead that is more accurately translated as "the grave," since ancient Jews believed that the soul died with the body.
"Hell" was the Germanic word for the underworld, and English is a Germanic language. So you're actually completely on the mark about where the name comes from, but it's due to translation and not intentionally copying the mythology of other cultures.
That said, other words were later erroneously translated as Hell, too, like Gehenna, which was a real, physical place where the bodies of criminals were burned in a massive pit because they were unworthy of having a decent burial. This is actually where the idea of Hell being a place of fire comes from, and it's genuinely a part of Jewish tradition rather than a syncretic element from any other culture.
But when Paul redesigned Heaven to be an afterlife, rather than the resurrection in New Jerusalem that Jesus promised, it also made the metaphorical destruction of the wicked in Gehenna into an afterlife, too, because the souls said to burn in Gehenna were no longer seen as mortal. This ended up implying that Gehenna was a kind of underworld, which is why it ended up being translated as such and being conflated with other references to Sheol.
@@AbandonedVoid - Hades is the ruler of the Greek version of the underworld, Tartarus.
The same is true for Hel and Helheim, which is a realm in Niflheim ( Norse/Germanic underworld. )
And do keep in mind the connection between the Romans and Greece... A connection close enough that mistranslations between Greek, Latin, and the Germanic/Scandinavian languages should have been a rare thing.
Those were the common languages of the day in Rome, back when the Roman Catholic Church was being formed.
Anyway, the fact is that Christianity borrows or steals quite heavily from earlier religions, and has done its best to either "Christianise" or outright eradicate the earlier belief systems that were still in place when it was adopted by the Romans.
That last is the reason the neopagan movement of the past 20-25 years is so wrong about so many old practices; there's just not much information left concerning the druids, or the Germanic religions. And what little we do have is written by people already converted to the Christian way of thinking.
Most Hate Filled is Romans Chapter 1, second part. Paul is the most Antisemitic Person in history. Read the 1611 King James Version where Paul is explicit.
“For I am not ashamed of the good news; it is, in fact, God’s power for salvation to everyone having faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16) Wow, good news of salvation for everyone faithful, but first the Jews. How hate-filled and antisemetic!
And then it goes into that clunky, specious business in the next few verses, about how everything has been 'clearly seen and understood', despite being invisible, plus interwoven with a 'fallen' nature.