As someone who has been paying close attention to christian fundamentalism for decades, I appreciate the filmmakers drawing attention to the larger picture and spotlighting the stories of the survivors. Very well done.
I was raised in a high-demand religion Christian denomination (not the IBLP). The first time I heard of the Duggars and saw the kids lined up with their musical instruments, looking like shiny, happy kids, I knew immediately that the parents were following a cult-like organization. Thank you for doing this, and especially for drawing attention to the underlying plan to take over the US government. I suggest doing a part two where you investigate the teachings of (now deceased) theologian Rousas John Rushdoony, his son-in-law Gary North and Christian Reconstructionism. That's pretty much the foundation of much of modern Christian fundamentalism. For the past 30 years, several different movements have loosely converged - Falwell's Moral Majority, Pat Robertson's CBN and Regent University, Mike Farris's Homeschool Defense League, Patrick Henry University, Mike and Debi Pearl, Quiverfull and more, into a dangerous ideology that puts us all at risk. Here is a link to Bill Moyers' interview with Rushdoony from 1988. Rushdoony is the most dangerous man you never heard of. Shiny, Happy People is a terrific documentary and I hope it opens people's eye to the dangers of Christian fundamentalism (oh, and I say this as a practicing Christian).
I really wasn’t sold on the whole “take over the government” point aired in the documentary. Any group that believes the world needs to be changed is taking steps to change it through positions of influence. That point felt non unique.
And now Holt family drama. This is awful. It also made me so sad to see they were punishing babies for exploring new things and objects 😢😢😢 this broke my heart. Those children all had broken spirits and that's why they looked so "well behaved ". Thank you for pointing this out.. I think it's important as people would absolutely miss this point.
Remember Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, where babies who crawled towards colourful books got electric shocks? This is not much different. It's emotional and physical abuse, why aren't the remaining kids being removed and Jessa too, investigated , as she apparently practices this wickedness too? All 19 Duggar offspring are at risk of handing this down to the next generation.
Agreed. Anyone who has taken even a single basic class in child development knows that a crucial period of development is the sensori-motor period of toddler development, where babies need to crawl around the house and explore their environment, holding, tasting, and manipulating objects to learn from them. The "blanket training" robs children of normal childhood development. It is a wonder they turned out as normal as they did.
To me it amounts to child abuse and should be prosecuted. I will rally for the innocent and unprotected children. They need better protection and anyone who writes books on how to abuse kids should face consequences.
Now hold on just a second. One of my main gripes with this documentary is that it made a lot of claims that weren’t fully fleshed out. Here’s how their arg went… there’s this couple who promote blanket training that bill gothard praised once. Michelle Duggar also wrote about “blanket training” in her book. We have no proof that Michelle was suggesting smacking a child that moved off the blanket. It was a stretch. Is it not possible that Michelle used the same language? Teaching a child to sit still and basically have “quiet time” is a good skill in general and the paragraph in question seems to imply the child is at least 4 years old
I'm really surprised that NO one has went after the heads of the snake in this nightmare. The MALES who create this nightmare need to be stopped. Is there no way??
There are similar patriarchal/authoritarian religious influences that are intent on taking hold in politics/government/judicial system. It's why JimBob Duggar and Jim Hold both ran for state offices. (JB was a state rep for a few years.). It's clear today that it's happening in deep red states. In Texas, a bill has passed into law that requires all public schools to post the 10 Commandments in every classroom. Other laws are passed that target certain groups and take rights away. This is a sick and twisted effort to do away with the separation of church/state and promote Christianity in our government. The way to go after the heads of the snake is to vote, and I don't mean red!
The cult protects them. That is why abuse in these high control groups happens so easily, because the entire power structure is designed to protect the people on top while they exploit those on the bottom. Everyone knew Gothard had "a type" to the point of even calling them "Gothard Girls" but because they were so brainwashed their minds just assumed nothing was happening even when it was going on right in front of them. Any time you see an attempt to set up a structure where most people lost their ability to speak out... RUN. Any time you see victim shaming/blaming or an emphasis on dealing with problems privately... RUN RUN RUN.
I’m also interested to see the woman from discovery health that lobbied for them and helped cover it up when Oprah turned them in to cps back when…and helped them create the second series as well to further exploit the girls and forge some of the documents from boob. She’s a member of IBLP/ATI Btw- Anna’s sister Priscilla, her husband is one of the new board members after they removed GothTurd .
It was heartbreaking watching this to see how babies and children are treated. To hit a baby for reaching for something is incomprehensible. What evil, evil people. They all want locking up and the key throwing away.
I went to one of the institutes for basic youth conflicts. Both my husband and I came out of it and said this is not right we never went back. It’s just all wrong.
It's not about the rules. The dresses, or the lack of music. The courting or any of it. Those things are incidental. It's about one thing. The girls were abused by their brother and their parents, their Fa, failed to protect them. That fact alone would justify the kids never speaking to them again. You do not owe people who abused you peace.
But like it or not it reperesents a segment of fundamentalist evangelicalism, which is at odds with mainstream Christianity and has become the "default" religious position of the U.S.!
It does. It's an example for how Christians can be. Luckily many are different than the IBLP. It's actually a pretty arrogant stance to think that one could define by one's own's standards who the "real" Christians are. Also, if you look at the whole (!) Bible you'll see quite a few brutal things so the way how the IBLP interprets it is actually quite fitting. Still horrible though.
@@jdmmg4904 Yeah let’s just ignore all the possible good things the Bible does or promotes, like caring for orphans and widows. How about not exasperating your children? It’s not arrogant at all to see that the IBLP didn’t have the right idea in the first place.
@@LivingWellist No one said the Bible doesn't say any good things and the previous commenter wasn't ignoring them. The point is there are also plenty of horrible, violent, incredibly disturbing things in what is supposed to be a perfect book from a supposedly extremely just, loving, perfect god. Those parts of the Bible can be used to justify doing/supporting extremely horrible things, just as some other people use good parts of the Bible to inspire very kind, loving, ethical things.
Sorry but submission doesn't equal abuse. It's Biblical. What's also Biblical is that men love their wives sacrificially like Christ loved the church - and gave Himself up for her, even died for it! Those exact words are in the Bible too. It's when men don't love their wives that women get abused.
When men are 100% in charge of both the church and home and they have no accountability to anyone but God, when women are told that they must submit to their husbands "in all things" (Eph. 5:33), when both girls and boys are taught that a woman's role is to serve and service her husband without question, and when boys are taught that one day they will be prophet, priest and king in their own household, you are creating a perfect environment for all kinds of abuse. Human beings cannot be trusted with power. Jesus did not seek power over people, and he specifically told his disciples not to seek power, but that "the last shall be first and the first shall be last." Without even thinking too hard about it, I can name at least 20 high profile fundamentalist men who have been found guilty of various forms of SA including Josh Duggar, Toby Willis, Doug Phillips, David Gray, Bill Hybels, and many others. There is a public list of the names of over 250 Southern Baptist Pastors and church volunteers who have been convicted of felonies for SA. There are other high-profile churches, like John MacArthur's church where women have been harmed by predators. Look at the problem that the Catholic church has had with their priests. What do the Catholics have in common with the Fundamentalists? Men are in charge of everything and women and children have no protection from predators. It sounds good to say that men should love their wives like Christ loved the church, but far too many men are attracted to these religions where they have power over other people without any oversight, or the outright protection of other men in charge. In too many of these cases, including the Catholics and the SBC, perpetrators have simply been moved to another role or another church, again with no accountability. This documentary was great, but it only scratched the surface of how dangerous Christian fundamentalism has become. I am a Christian by the way.
@@juliachildress2943 Just wanted to comment saying this was a perfect summary of the root of the problem in these environments. Thanks for typing all of that out.
@@juliachildress2943 right, so we need to clearly pin down where the root of the problem is. In all these cases I can say the problem isn’t the structure because obviously, the men didn’t follow loving their wife like Christ loved the Church. I don’t pay anyone any mind that talks about submission without in the same breath talking about the men loving as Christ loved the Church. Neither should anyone else. The two are designed to work in tandem, not one side doing all the submitting while the other side is just declared the leader. I think I agree with the essence of what you are saying but the solution isn’t to throw out the system entirely. The solution is for these men to actually do what they are called to do: love your wives and lay your life down for her sacrificially. Listen to her concerns, serve her based on those. It’s frustrating that these men can do this and bring shame on all Christians when they really weren’t running the system right to begin with.
Yes to the previous responses plus this. To understand the verses, punctuation was added many years later. The proper rendering begins with "submitting one to the other" which was separated out from the prior verse. So "submitting one to the other" is the theme of the following verses which begins with the hardest word to the husband, i.e. put your wife first. Current understanding of "head" is based on faulty understanding (contemporary) use of the word as leader. Instead the original actually refers to head as meaning "source" as in "head of the Mississippi." Do your proper research, one great source is Bushnell's work (Hebrew and Greek scholar) published in 1919.
I agree in some respects. I’ve been familiar with the situation and didn’t feel like I learned a lot of new information, other than the fact that Jim Bob slipped Jill a fast contract sign the day before the wedding. That was so wrong. Also them not getting paid as adults? Crazy. Not to mention, Jim Bob and Michelle’s response on their website doesn’t really address any of the specific claims.
As someone who has been paying close attention to christian fundamentalism for decades, I appreciate the filmmakers drawing attention to the larger picture and spotlighting the stories of the survivors. Very well done.
Same here from a European observer
I was raised in a high-demand religion Christian denomination (not the IBLP). The first time I heard of the Duggars and saw the kids lined up with their musical instruments, looking like shiny, happy kids, I knew immediately that the parents were following a cult-like organization. Thank you for doing this, and especially for drawing attention to the underlying plan to take over the US government. I suggest doing a part two where you investigate the teachings of (now deceased) theologian Rousas John Rushdoony, his son-in-law Gary North and Christian Reconstructionism. That's pretty much the foundation of much of modern Christian fundamentalism. For the past 30 years, several different movements have loosely converged - Falwell's Moral Majority, Pat Robertson's CBN and Regent University, Mike Farris's Homeschool Defense League, Patrick Henry University, Mike and Debi Pearl, Quiverfull and more, into a dangerous ideology that puts us all at risk. Here is a link to Bill Moyers' interview with Rushdoony from 1988. Rushdoony is the most dangerous man you never heard of. Shiny, Happy People is a terrific documentary and I hope it opens people's eye to the dangers of Christian fundamentalism (oh, and I say this as a practicing Christian).
I really wasn’t sold on the whole “take over the government” point aired in the documentary. Any group that believes the world needs to be changed is taking steps to change it through positions of influence. That point felt non unique.
I look forward to seeing what these 2 do next. Great job in reporting the FACTS
And now Holt family drama. This is awful.
It also made me so sad to see they were punishing babies for exploring new things and objects 😢😢😢 this broke my heart. Those children all had broken spirits and that's why they looked so "well behaved ". Thank you for pointing this out.. I think it's important as people would absolutely miss this point.
Remember Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, where babies who crawled towards colourful books got electric shocks? This is not much different. It's emotional and physical abuse, why aren't the remaining kids being removed and Jessa too, investigated , as she apparently practices this wickedness too? All 19 Duggar offspring are at risk of handing this down to the next generation.
What happened with the holy family?
Agreed. Anyone who has taken even a single basic class in child development knows that a crucial period of development is the sensori-motor period of toddler development, where babies need to crawl around the house and explore their environment, holding, tasting, and manipulating objects to learn from them. The "blanket training" robs children of normal childhood development. It is a wonder they turned out as normal as they did.
To me it amounts to child abuse and should be prosecuted. I will rally for the innocent and unprotected children. They need better protection and anyone who writes books on how to abuse kids should face consequences.
Now hold on just a second. One of my main gripes with this documentary is that it made a lot of claims that weren’t fully fleshed out. Here’s how their arg went… there’s this couple who promote blanket training that bill gothard praised once. Michelle Duggar also wrote about “blanket training” in her book. We have no proof that Michelle was suggesting smacking a child that moved off the blanket. It was a stretch. Is it not possible that Michelle used the same language? Teaching a child to sit still and basically have “quiet time” is a good skill in general and the paragraph in question seems to imply the child is at least 4 years old
I'm really surprised that NO one has went after the heads of the snake in this nightmare. The MALES who create this nightmare need to be stopped. Is there no way??
There are similar patriarchal/authoritarian religious influences that are intent on taking hold in politics/government/judicial system. It's why JimBob Duggar and Jim Hold both ran for state offices. (JB was a state rep for a few years.). It's clear today that it's happening in deep red states. In Texas, a bill has passed into law that requires all public schools to post the 10 Commandments in every classroom. Other laws are passed that target certain groups and take rights away. This is a sick and twisted effort to do away with the separation of church/state and promote Christianity in our government. The way to go after the heads of the snake is to vote, and I don't mean red!
The cult protects them. That is why abuse in these high control groups happens so easily, because the entire power structure is designed to protect the people on top while they exploit those on the bottom. Everyone knew Gothard had "a type" to the point of even calling them "Gothard Girls" but because they were so brainwashed their minds just assumed nothing was happening even when it was going on right in front of them. Any time you see an attempt to set up a structure where most people lost their ability to speak out... RUN. Any time you see victim shaming/blaming or an emphasis on dealing with problems privately... RUN RUN RUN.
I’m also interested to see the woman from discovery health that lobbied for them and helped cover it up when Oprah turned them in to cps back when…and helped them create the second series as well to further exploit the girls and forge some of the documents from boob. She’s a member of IBLP/ATI
Btw- Anna’s sister Priscilla, her husband is one of the new board members after they removed GothTurd .
It was heartbreaking watching this to see how babies and children are treated. To hit a baby for reaching for something is incomprehensible. What evil, evil people. They all want locking up and the key throwing away.
I went to one of the institutes for basic youth conflicts. Both my husband and I came out of it and said this is not right we never went back. It’s just all wrong.
Excellent documentary
You guys NEED to reach out and HELP the children of the Duggars!! CPS NEEDS to REMOVE the children from the Duggers home NOW!!
I grew up in the same BS. I thought this series was too kind.
Ah crap! You gotta be kidding. It gets worse!?
So sad for the girls
Sickening parents, and Anna.
And Jim Holt!! His wife and son have a DV retraining order against him!!!!🤬
Anna was raised in this ideology. She may not have anyone to turn to for help to get out. Personally I can't blame her.
It’s a excellent doco, some sickening information. Sorta thing you sorta knew without knowing. Not a church it’s a cult
Tomato tomato
Wait ... Savannah and Atlanta?!?! Let me dive in to this series.
Lovely names, very popular in the UK
It's not about the rules. The dresses, or the lack of music. The courting or any of it. Those things are incidental. It's about one thing. The girls were abused by their brother and their parents, their Fa, failed to protect them. That fact alone would justify the kids never speaking to them again. You do not owe people who abused you peace.
That church gives the Christian’s that want to spread the word of god and show respect and love toward our fellow man a bad name.
Savannah and Altanta are in the same state...
Amy was always on the outside.
Do you think that there was a time when Jill Duggar was happy? Did she have any happy memories as a child?
First of all me too is very different from child sex abuse. Don't confuse the issue.
The IBLP does NOT represent Christianity.
But like it or not it reperesents a segment of fundamentalist evangelicalism, which is at odds with mainstream Christianity and has become the "default" religious position of the U.S.!
It represents what "Christianity" can become when people buy into, without question, the toxic, extra-biblical legalism espoused by Bill Gothard.
It does. It's an example for how Christians can be. Luckily many are different than the IBLP. It's actually a pretty arrogant stance to think that one could define by one's own's standards who the "real" Christians are. Also, if you look at the whole (!) Bible you'll see quite a few brutal things so the way how the IBLP interprets it is actually quite fitting. Still horrible though.
@@jdmmg4904 Yeah let’s just ignore all the possible good things the Bible does or promotes, like caring for orphans and widows. How about not exasperating your children? It’s not arrogant at all to see that the IBLP didn’t have the right idea in the first place.
@@LivingWellist No one said the Bible doesn't say any good things and the previous commenter wasn't ignoring them. The point is there are also plenty of horrible, violent, incredibly disturbing things in what is supposed to be a perfect book from a supposedly extremely just, loving, perfect god. Those parts of the Bible can be used to justify doing/supporting extremely horrible things, just as some other people use good parts of the Bible to inspire very kind, loving, ethical things.
Sorry but submission doesn't equal abuse. It's Biblical. What's also Biblical is that men love their wives sacrificially like Christ loved the church - and gave Himself up for her, even died for it! Those exact words are in the Bible too. It's when men don't love their wives that women get abused.
When men are 100% in charge of both the church and home and they have no accountability to anyone but God, when women are told that they must submit to their husbands "in all things" (Eph. 5:33), when both girls and boys are taught that a woman's role is to serve and service her husband without question, and when boys are taught that one day they will be prophet, priest and king in their own household, you are creating a perfect environment for all kinds of abuse. Human beings cannot be trusted with power. Jesus did not seek power over people, and he specifically told his disciples not to seek power, but that "the last shall be first and the first shall be last." Without even thinking too hard about it, I can name at least 20 high profile fundamentalist men who have been found guilty of various forms of SA including Josh Duggar, Toby Willis, Doug Phillips, David Gray, Bill Hybels, and many others. There is a public list of the names of over 250 Southern Baptist Pastors and church volunteers who have been convicted of felonies for SA. There are other high-profile churches, like John MacArthur's church where women have been harmed by predators. Look at the problem that the Catholic church has had with their priests. What do the Catholics have in common with the Fundamentalists? Men are in charge of everything and women and children have no protection from predators. It sounds good to say that men should love their wives like Christ loved the church, but far too many men are attracted to these religions where they have power over other people without any oversight, or the outright protection of other men in charge. In too many of these cases, including the Catholics and the SBC, perpetrators have simply been moved to another role or another church, again with no accountability. This documentary was great, but it only scratched the surface of how dangerous Christian fundamentalism has become. I am a Christian by the way.
@@juliachildress2943 Just wanted to comment saying this was a perfect summary of the root of the problem in these environments. Thanks for typing all of that out.
@@juliachildress2943 right, so we need to clearly pin down where the root of the problem is. In all these cases I can say the problem isn’t the structure because obviously, the men didn’t follow loving their wife like Christ loved the Church. I don’t pay anyone any mind that talks about submission without in the same breath talking about the men loving as Christ loved the Church. Neither should anyone else. The two are designed to work in tandem, not one side doing all the submitting while the other side is just declared the leader. I think I agree with the essence of what you are saying but the solution isn’t to throw out the system entirely. The solution is for these men to actually do what they are called to do: love your wives and lay your life down for her sacrificially. Listen to her concerns, serve her based on those. It’s frustrating that these men can do this and bring shame on all Christians when they really weren’t running the system right to begin with.
Yes to the previous responses plus this. To understand the verses, punctuation was added many years later. The proper rendering begins with "submitting one to the other" which was separated out from the prior verse. So "submitting one to the other" is the theme of the following verses which begins with the hardest word to the husband, i.e. put your wife first. Current understanding of "head" is based on faulty understanding (contemporary) use of the word as leader. Instead the original actually refers to head as meaning "source" as in "head of the Mississippi." Do your proper research, one great source is Bushnell's work
(Hebrew and Greek scholar) published in 1919.
@@LibbyAnn026 Another root problem is the mistranslations over many years. See Bushnell's work published in 1919, reprinted and available currently.
I really feel like it wasn’t that good.
I agree in some respects. I’ve been familiar with the situation and didn’t feel like I learned a lot of new information, other than the fact that Jim Bob slipped Jill a fast contract sign the day before the wedding. That was so wrong. Also them not getting paid as adults? Crazy.
Not to mention, Jim Bob and Michelle’s response on their website doesn’t really address any of the specific claims.