WHICH IS BETTER-CNC PORTED STOCK LS HEADS OR AFTER MARKET CNC HEADS. TEA 243 HEADS VS AFR 245 HEADS!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- HOW TO BOLT ON 73 HP TO YOUR LS! DO PORTED HEADS ADD POWER? SHOULD I USE PORTED STOCK LS HEADS OR AFTER MARKET LS HEADS? SHOULD I UPGRADE MY LS HEADS? HOW MUCH POWER ARE PORTED STOCK HEADS WORTH? HOW MUCH POWER ARE CNC-PORTED AFR 245 HEADS WORTH? ARE AFTER MARKET LS HEADS REALLY WORTH THE PRICE? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I COMPARED STOCK 241 LS HEADS TO CNC-PORTED 243 HEADS TO AFR 245 HEADS ON A 408 STROKER. WHICH HEADS OFFER THE BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK? IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO BUILD A 600-HP, 408 STROKER-THIS HEAD TEST IS ALSO A GOOD RECIPE.
Just to answer the question at the end... AFR 245 heads $3K and when I got my 799/243 heads completed with the extraction of 2 exhaust bolts it was $2150.
For more than 20psi of boost or 250hp shot of gas go aftermarket with the thicker deck. Anything below that and (in my opinion) you will be okay.
We stroked an aluminum 6.0 to 403 ci with cnc ported GM LS3 heads with a 248/252 cam made 640hp @ 6500rpm.
Jules Broom I did a 417 with a big BTR NA cam with reher morrison cnc ported l92 heads and made 705hp 592tq with more tuning to go and with 1,000 cfm pro systems carb
@@KS-dg5zhto the wheels?
@@CryptoBandit no .on engine dyno
For a lot of us LS guys who are making reasonably high HP/boost the big thing with aftermarket heads is the thicker deck surface. Factory LS head decks get unhappy like 1100-1200 consistently
agreed
They make deck plates for that
@@jackdaniels2657 under high HP/boost it will quite literally distort the head. The decks are too thin
@@raider9170 then dont add too much boost. If ur gonna build 2500hp u want bullet but if ur just hoping for 1000 to1500 hp u don't need much just install an oring on the cylenderhead/engineblock
@@jackdaniels2657 wat?
I have the TEA 317 casting with the stage 2 cnc program. They have the same size valves as on your set. The flow chart that came with my heads had these numbers:
INTAKE
0.100 lift 67.2 cfm 0.200 142.6 cfm 0.300 lift 216.6 cfm 0.400 lift 268.6 cfm 0.500 lift 300.9 cfm 0.550 lift 323.3 0.600 lift 326 cfm
EXHAUST
0.100 lift 58.5 cfm 0.200 lift 115.4 cfm 0.300 lift 166.8 cfm 0.400 lift 214 cfm 0.500 lift 238.2 cfm 0.550 lift 244.2 cfm 0.600 lift 247.3 cfm
Pricing in 2020: STAGE 2 ls6/317 head castings with 2.045 intake 1.575 exhaust valves (stainless Ferrea valves)$1,533.04
STAGE 3 with 2.08 intake 1.600 exhaust valves(more work to intall the bigger valves) $2,051.96
STAGE 3 FLOW: only listing where the numbers very from the stage 2 heads
Intake- 0.300 lift 219 cfm 0.400 lift 269 cfm 0.500 lift 311 cfm 0.600 lift 346 cfm
Exhaust- 0.300 lift 182 cfm 0.400 lift 233 cfm 0.500 lift 260 cfm 0.600 lift 270 cfm
I say port 243's theyre awesome heads!
I ran that same camshaft in my LS2 powered GTO. Brett Land ported big valve 243s. For what it's worth, that car made 452/409 at the tire and could trap 97mph in the eighth. I've still got it but the motor only has seven rods in it now :-)
I hate it when the motor loses a rod somewhere and you just can't find where the motor lost the rod. Then you have to buy a rod and give it to the motor and tell it to quit losing stuff!
😂😂😂😂
@@sebbonxxsebbon6824 - follow the bread crumbs.
Bet it does not idle very smooth ?
@@gregblack4581 th-cam.com/video/LuuMIpqMkAo/w-d-xo.html
Still have a pair of brand new bare 243's in the cupboard.....rare in Australia.
Ford 2v guy here, for n/a build port stock heads, for boost go aftermarket..
I have those AFR 245’s on a boosted 427 and I have a set of 243‘s in the garage. I won’t be swapping on the 243’s anytime soon 😂 There is also the better, thicker deck surface of the aftermarket heads but it is very impressive how good those ported factory heads work!
I'm thinking they have 3/4"deck thickness. I may be wrong.
deck thickness becomes important on big power boosted motors
The extra material is not just in the deck of an AFR. It's also in the port walls, the rocker cover flange, the head bolt seats, etc. I built a 800 HP daily motor and wanted the extra stability for imperfect conditions.
You looking to get rid of those 243s?
@@hatedonalot9080 yes!! I sure am. They have 42k miles, off of an LS2, they have never been disassembled meaning all valves still in them, ready to bolt on.
Great video as always! Something I would also be interested in seeing is how much of a difference the bigger valve package makes, compared to the strictly cnc stage 1. I’m sure it’s much more expensive, but is it a logical choice vs just buying a set of aftermarket heads. Maybe not strictly with tea heads, but with any brand. And like you said, would it be worth the extra cost?
I wanna get these 243 heads ported on my ls4 5.3 so bad along with the truck Norris cam and DT headers plus my 2800 stall from circle D
Love that LQ4 based 408! 408 is really great!
For max effort N/A builds or dedicated boost setups with more than say.... 10 pounds.... I think the aftermarket items would be favorable to spending money to porting the existing factory heads.
I have AFR heads, a mild cam, intake, exhaust and 91 octane tune on my C5, 450hp, 100hp gain. Not bad
Would love to see a vid about transmissions that can support all this power
Factory heads did very well on the 408! Stout combo on the street!
Eventually I will get to this on my truck. For now my cat back and cold air kit will have to do. Gotta start somewhere.
Can you compare TEA vs KATECH ported 243 heads
Tea doesn't port SBF trick flow TW heads anymore. Just tried to get my set done. Probably going AFR 205's
Why such a wide lobe separation angle? I would think it would respond better to a 108-110 lsa.
Hi Richard i have a question
My ls1 is a 2001 5.7 225kw with Otr they say +35kw bold on ? .
So if this is true thats the start.
With a truck norris cam would i leave 241 heads along with the ls6 manifold and headers witch at this point im running just the stock exhaust manifolds or upgrade the three my max target is 480hp max but more tourqe is the end goal with the truck norris cam being the choice.
Thanks
Aaron
ported heads and fast intake will certainly make more power, but you can run the cam alone with springs on the 241 heads
Morning Richard Thank-you your video's are great i saves alot of research time .
Thanks
Aaron
Thanks for your hard work and dedication. I run KaTech ported 243 on a Magnuson ‘05 vette. Runs great.
they do good work
my truck have a 799 heads, need to change to bored 6.2 iron block + comp cams, to go to major league!
I’m planning on doing a set of 243 cnc ported heads on my 6.0 LQ4, big question are stainless etc valve replacement worth anything the factory valves in my heads are not the sodium’s, are a bit heavy compared to sodium’s, but the stainless are even heavier? Was looking at Manley as years ago while I worked at an engine shop that was choice of our champions in our SBC 355 modified engines….all tech comments welcome. 🙏
most run bigger valves in the ported 243s
@@richardholdener1727 are the valve swaps worth the cost for a street strip 317 swap?
I got a lm7 5.3 with truck norris cam , im planning on putting ported 243 heads , would u recommend?
that works fine, so do ported 706/862s
I loved this!!!! I have that exact bottom end. I have 243’s and 821’s but I’m not sure which one to use… Can compare ported 243’s ported vs 821’s non ported vs ported 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
PROPERLY PORTED 243 MAKES MORE THAN STOCK REC PORT
Yeah I'll save some money and get these stock heads ported
Richard, thank you for a great video!
Richard. Kool vid! Properly ported heads are hard to argue with! Perfect sleeper style heads. Do the aftermarket heads have larger deck surfaces for better clamping and perhaps some type of improvement for the valvetrain? Better sealing and rpm longevity?
much thicker decks
Loved this video. Made me want to score a c5 and dip a crazy ls6 into it!
Sometimes it depends on where you live in the world,porting can be cheaper.
I would love to see a set of heads that were ported solely for a turbo build, from what I've found in lots of videos all the porting is in the exhaust where it sent to turn the Turbo they don't touch bottom but take it all out of the roof and side and can help with spooling so bigger is better I believe
there is not turbo only porting
So is 550 hp compared to 650 Ho a significant gain???
Richard, is there any way we could see a test of the deck of the heads? Obviously a 6 bolt aftermarket set with a thicker deck will work better under boost, but I’m curious if there’s any way to tell WHEN the aftermarket heads are worth the $? I’ve seen guys make more horsepower than I ever intend to make on stock heads. Thanks!
1100-1200 hp seems to be the concern power level for stock decks
63cc called, it said remove me from the screen
If I remember correctly when I emailed TEA for a stage 1 porting. It was 1800 and could go into the low 2k range if they have to replace some stuff. Should run some junk yard ls3 heads to compare.
ported cath ports make more than stock rec ports-but stock rec ports are cheaper
I'm trying to figure out how the 6.0 from the intake test made 592 with heads cam and the fast intake but this 408 barely makes over 600 with the same cam and intake. Was the 6.0 intake test also in a 408 config? Also, how you get a job like this? Richard, you're getting old don't you need a sidekick or overpaid grunt?
I'm getting old?
Maybe one engine had more timing than the other engine.
Richard, I'm meant that more as a segue than a statement of fact. I mean I'm 35 and everyday I'm looking for someone to do the heavy lifting so I can retire.
@@raymondkaczmarek5631 LMAO!!! Wait until you're 65+!!!!! IF....You make it!!
@@milojanis4901 I'm not gonna make it. This texas heat melting me this year. Shop don't make enough money for ac yet.
Any experience on the dyno w/TEA-ported 241 heads, Richard? I'm leaning that way due to cost & desire to keep the stock heads on my Camaro for fun/bragging/appearance/to be a little different.. I'd love to see how good a place like TEA can make the 241's run vs the (admittedly more logical choice) 243's. Thank ya, sir!
THE PORTED 241S WORK WELL TOO
The ported LS6/243 castings will make more power than LS1/241 castings....
Thank You... Is there a video like this for lt4 stuff? Thanks
Can you do a comparison of the AFR enforcer vs cnc vs tfs ?????
I have tried calling total engine airflow for pricing and left voice messages and emails with no return replies? Are they still in business? At this point I’d be afraid to send them parts
TEA was purchased by Trick Flow/Summit.
So I have a gen4 aluminum studded and sleeved 6.0 afr 225 72 heads, Steve morris rods cp pistons stage 3 Steve morris blower cam it's covered to a 24 tooth trunion bronze kit 660 springs.. what kinda hp should I expect na with a holley stand alone and holley intake at 7000 rpm? Stroke is stock 3.622 with a .005 line hone..
what holley intake what are the cam specs
@richardholdener1727 it's a Steve morris stage 3 blower cam not sure of specs and I haven't bought an intake yet thought maybe u could help with that want to stay away from plastic intakes ..
Excellent video Richard. Shows how good the right factory head can be in certain applications. David Vizard is somewhat critical of cam companies, particularly when it comes to LSA's. I suspect that he would use a lot less than 114°. Would it be possible for you to do a video where you use the same cam lobes, one with the off the shelf spec, like this 114, and one with a DV spec'd LSA? That said, I wouldn't be surprised if you had already done it. Regards Greg
THE CAM COMPANIES KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TIGHTEN THE LSA! LOTS OF SHARP GUYS THERE.
@@richardholdener1727 I have a 07 tahoe 5.3 with 799 heads I've bought the truck Norris cam 3/4 long tube headers do I need to port the heads or do they flow enough
donta simmons -it look like unless you want to make more than 500 hp- stock heads will do.
@@michaelgarrow3239 what
donta simmons - I believe, looking at the graphs, Richard is showing that stock heads will flow enough air for 500 hp.
More with boost.
I have a set of factory 243 heads that have been cnced by Katech and was just wondering if you have ever tested any of their work .
THEY DO GOOD STUFF
Thanks for the response .
63cc got it.
Seems like you can multiply cfm x 2 to get roughly the supported HP.
that is what we use (it can go as high as 2.4 but is usually less than 2)
Which has a thicker deck ,
Which has a more efficient cooling psssages.
after market heads have thicker decks-not a concern on NA applications but a plus for high boost (like over 1100 hp)
How much horsepower can a 4.8 LS or 5.3 LS make with a precision 76/75 turbo with tfs 205 ported heads
THAT TURBO IS ABOUT 1000 HP
@@richardholdener1727 can you put a bigger one on the 5.3 LS (8284 precision) and it can take it
600 hp/550 tq form a good ported head or an aftermarket head is nooooooooooooo joke! Peak hp probably right where you want it on a hot "ish" street setup - 6,000 to 6,500 rpm
5:23 the hell was that lol
Personally I blame John Woodworth
Hey richard, what would you recommend for a 11:1 CR 4.08 stroker 4.030 bore. Trying to choose the best heads cam package for this setup, currently running an unknown spec Livernoise Ported 243 heads on this 408 with a pat G spec cam, 234/242 .629”/.615” 112 LSA +4 advance. Looking for max effort for best flowing heads for this setup.
that is likely a good combo
@@richardholdener1727 not sure what might be going wrong but this combo put down 450Whp and 453TQ through a T-56 yesterday. Seems very low, A/F is good and ignition system checks out. At a lost currently.
@@elplatanito8094 so round about 550 off crank? N your unhappy there?
Check timing and maybe look into the proper carb n junk the efi there is many videos made around carb vs efi and Dyno evidence.
@@christopherparis6841 I recently decided to do a top end swap and giong with a larger cam as well. heres the new setup:
same 408 bottom
Frankenstein M311 heads (64 cc)
GPI custom cam 244/256 .621".604"112+4
GPI porsted rod mod stcok Ls3 intake and 103mm NW. SHould see some good power out of this setup for sure.
@@elplatanito8094Interested to know, what did it put down with the updated top-end ?
Were you able to use the ls9 head gaskets with the 245 heads?
yes
Not come across a motor yet that does not give better mpg with a good clean up on the ports, especially on the ex. side, along with a slight raise in CR.
I’m building an NA 5.3, I am using a Truck Norris cam, upgraded heads, and possibly a TBSS or the FAST intake, but I wanna know if anyone has built soemthing similar and what you all did for heads.
ported heads help, but not as much as if you had a bigger cam
@@richardholdener1727 firstly I appreciate you for replying, anytime I’ve had a question for you, you’re always very helpful. My goal power wise is just to make 400hp crank, mid to low 300 wheel. I was going to go ahead and go e85 as well for the extra little push. Does this seem attainable for what I’m running + ported heads ?
Would an afr 245 LS heads be good on turbocharged 408 LS
YES
Have you ever tested stock intakes VS ported. Like a mamo fast compared to stock. Or a ls3 stock VS rod mod? It would be cool to see real world non bias data on that
I have not
I have an lq9 and was wondering if I should swap out my 317 heads.
YES
great video !!!...thanks for the info.
63CC!
Sounds like a stock ported head is just as good as an aftermarket head
Well for high end power yes. One thing to consider is all the part throttle operation. IMO on a street car I'd give up a little top end to protect for that 1500-3000 rpm part throttle air velocity.
Should we expect similar results with Rec oem vs rec oem ported vs afr/tfs/mamo aftermarket on a 6l+ na combo?
a 6.0L doesn't really need ported rec port heads since the stock rec port heads already flow enough to make 630 hp
@@richardholdener1727 That's peak HP, what about area under the curve starting near 3500?
Are all of the variants in this video aluminum heads?
yes
So take a chance with someone's port work or buy CNC ported??? I'll be buying AFR heads. :)
@Richard holdner can you do a video on 408 ls with trickflow 225 head vs 255 trickflow?
THE INTAKE HAS TO CHANGE TOO-AND THE CHAMBERS ARE DIFFERENT SIZE
@@richardholdener1727 ok is that something you can test even though one is cathedral port and the other is rec port? Or maybe a 225 tf head vs the biggest trick flow cathedral head they make ???
@@chevy19699 245 is.i ha e 235s on a 402 88 mm turbo engine.it screams
@@ryangulley2051 nice any videos?
I was thinking of doing a similar build but using my 706 heads with TEA stage 1. But sounds like it might choke the motor down? I’m looking for more power under 5500..
those work too-it won't choke the motor down
Cathedral port master race.
63cc !
Would a 5.3 work with those afr heads ?
NO-BUT YOU DON'T NEED THESE
63CC!!!!!!!😀
Try trick flow twisted wedge heads
have you ever flowed Frankenstein heads?
I have not
@@richardholdener1727 if you do please tell us about it.
Yes
Have you tested the 241 stock trim under boost?
yes
@@richardholdener1727 do you have a video I can watch regarding it?
Awesome video
I wish he had stock 243 in place of the 241
Also would love to see afr vs tfs heads
see the 241 vs 243 head test video
I just want to replace my heads because I have the castech heads after 255000 miles it finally showed Its ugly head.
No reason to put dished pistons in a ls
there is on a pump gas stroker
@@richardholdener1727 nah....12:1 or more is fine.
63cc
If you really like it, you can have the rights
It can make a million for you overnight
Paperback Writer 🎤 Paperback Writerrrr ! 🎵
Hey there mister,
Would you read my book?
It took me years to write,
Would you take a look?
2.160 intake valve way too big for 4.030 bore
No way! You gotta be joking!!! The stock LS3 runs that valve, and it's only .035" larger!! That's .0175" per side!!! Lot's of Gen 1 SBC engines run valves that big, and bigger.....
Zero HP and Torque gains below 3000rpm
Thicker deck,better material etc
63cc!!
If the aftermarket heads are not better they couldn't sell them
Makes sense but does hold water on most cold air intakes which I call hot air intakes . Most do nothing .
@@gregblack4581 so cnc aftermarket heads dont work on cold air intakes but factory cnc ported heads do?
Smdh
Edelbrock made that mistake with the 351c heads for the small block Fords there heads were worse than the factory cast iron head's
@@lynndragoman1573 he seemed to not be talking about heads and hot air intakes rather than the fact that they sell even though they don’t do much.
@@rono3045 that head was a factory replacement head not a cnc ported head
Whaaaaw! ;)
he doesn't answer the title of the video
If you are lucky enough to have access to a good reputable head porter, then the choice is obvious.
Personally I blame squirrels
fix that text before i unleash my 50 foot goose
NO WAY TO FIX WITHOUT REMOVING THE VIDEO
You talk so fast and so much the crowd i feel is limited. I have watched a ton of your videos and if you would get to the brass tax and hit key points you videos would be shorter and more entertaining.
Then you’d lose out on so much of the knowledge that he gladly shares for FREE. But please. Tell him how his free content can be improved upon that’s real nice of you.
I actually watch Holdener's videos at 1.5x speed so I can watch more of them in my limited time....
Just watch at 0.75 speed
Or
0.50 speed