Your content has improved a lot since earlier days. You used to sound like a sales man, but now I really enjoy seeing your true personality coming out. Thanks for sharing.
Tiit Saul I loved this guys content back when it was just in magazines, but his early videos felt kinda “forced”. This more laid back format is cool. It’s like talking to that car guy neighbor we had growing up.
I like his new approach but the old spitfire info got the job done too. This is good for folks that need someone to talk them through the data though and he delivers! Richard is the man!!!
that's what car modding is. how fast do you wanna go vs. how much do you wanna spend. better flowong heada that allow lower boost for the same HP might result in lower IATs which means you worry less about knock, which could mean the difference between using pump gas vs e85 or having better ignition timings. also gives the motor some room to grow for bigger turbos in the future.
Cash represents time spent or risk in the past, if you spend last year's time to buy the heads or time porting it now yourself it makes no difference as both are time spent past or present. Or time spent in the future for those who put such things on a credit card.
Speed costs money, how fast... Richard, you make it so easy for all the rest of us to make well informed decisions on how to spend our money, cost benefit, real world results... the list goes on. Easily one of the most educational and interesting engine channels on youtube. Please don't ever stop being you. Cheers!
Back in the late 80s I worked for Magnum Plus Nitrous based out of Houston. My Boss, the owner of the company said, Your motor is like your relationship if you don't have good head you will never maximize your performance" RIP John Stewart
There all over TH-cam and everyone almost says they are right and everyone else is wrong so I went to where all the horse power is made at a race shop down in fort Myers that let me hang out and watch this dude didn't even know his name and learned form him after trying a bunch of times ya learning by watching is the only way TH-cam videos well your not there and you really can't see it form all angles recommend doing it live the only way to learn
I think people underestimate how much 700hp in a street car actually is lol Most people riding in a 700hp turbo car will believe you if you told them it makes 1200.
Totally agree.👍 Look how fast a 300bhp rally car is. In my current build (Pulsar GTiR, turbo 2.0L, ) I don't want more than 275AWkW. Then I wont be able to drive it on the throttle in the mountains. The roads are too narrow and twisty. Needs to be progressive and responsive. Horses for courses. Some people want a traffic light hero. And that's cool to. But I don't like speeding tickets 😉
Heck Ian, even a lazy 500hp from ~ 500cubes in a sub 3500lb car is enough to frighten you with under 3.5:1 gears. The gobs wheelspin from the tall gearing makes the rear end feel like it's on ice. Very disconcerting when you hoof it in a built up area, it steps out and you snap the throttle off, it bites and cavorts off in a direction you'd rather it didn't. Parked cars, poles, pedestrians, gutters etc take on a surreal aspect lol.
To be fair unless you are racing anything more than 350 hp with decent torque is all you should ever want on the street. Doing rolling burnouts when you are already doing 60 mph really is overkill
My vote always has been with "efficiency". Port your turbo heads. Cooler intake temps. Lower pressure levels. Lower backpressure. Literally zero downsides except "wallet".
I’m on the every thing side but my wallet is on the bone stock side IV got something in the middle. 4.8 stage two cam springs and gt45 clone tremonatorX 9.883 at 16.5 psi wC16 and 22 deg timing. 3250p s10.
What kind of power are you seeing out of your gt45 or trap speed. I've got a 5.3 with 706s btr ss2 turbo cam sheet metal intake and 102mm tb with a emusa gt45r (rearmounted) trying to get to around 750whp so I can dip into 9s with my fbody. So far with a stock ls1 with sheetmetal intake an tb only on 9#s I made 530whp/540tq stock 60e/10bolt. I'm thinking if I can get 18#s I should be able to get around 750whp and dip into 9s out of the gt45r. 🤞🤞
Ported heads are good on N\A \ turbo \ nitrous or blown engine. No matter what setup ported or better heads are worth it. Now if its in the budget thats a different story
What i love about your and sloppy mekhanics is that you dont have to make a million buck to have fun ! thank you for everything your testing out for us !
Richard is the definitive guide to all things ls. Hes down to earth, will answer your questions and is probably the single most important channel for almost all things ls and testing.
I’m so excited to see your video of how to port heads at home, if Brian tooley was leaning over your shoulder.. Take all the time you like, excruciating detail is welcome!
I have a 6.0 na that I put ported 243 heads on with ported tbss intake and cam. For a street driven truck it’s a lot to handle. I have thought of adding a turbo but I think 500whp is a lot for the street. Maybe I’m just old school, I remember when you had to really build an engine to make 500 at the flywheel now a stock 6.0 with a cam swap will do it. For a street driven car that I wanted to be quick I would go with the stock 6.0 or 6.2, change the cam then a small turbo with about 7lbs of boost. I think that would make the best all around fun car. I go ported heads on an na engine though.
Over a 2 year period of time I helped a friend tune his 1080cc (Kaw. ZRX1100) from 120Hp NA up to 500Hp with Turbo. One of the "several" build combinations/upgrades was head work. Long story short, we jumped from 220Hp to 260Hp with the head work (same cams, cam timing and boost) 👍 Mods were over size valves (with proper un-shrouding in combustion chamber), porting (which included epoxy for calculated critical choke area in intake ports). He did raise the compression from 8:1 to 8.4 so not all of the 40Hp gained was from the head work but most of it was...
Bowl work is definitely the most power per hour of labor. I have yet to see a decently modern engine which benefits more than marginally from deshrouding - unless you add a significant change in bore diameter.
"now its a mikes hard lemonade... With a purpose". I vote that Richard Holdener should replace Johnathan Goldsmith as the most interesting man in the world for 2020. Just need to get Richard to do a video in a smoking jacket. Great video as always.
I have a 6.0 I’m working on boosting, since I paid 1500 bucks for it i am going take Richards advise and do the things needed to be done to keep it together, if I had the 500 dollar version LS I would just send it for sure then go buy another as soon as it expired.
6.0 with some cleaned up 706's. Super punchy turbo down low. Basically a single turbo LS "EcoBoost" combo that pulls to 6k. 500 tire on low boost with 91 octane. The Unicorn.
Love the "Happy Hour and Horsepower" premise! I'm an in the middle leaning a little more towards spending the money kind of guy. My build is a L76 stroker 403 with an LSA blower. I spent the money on the crank, pistons, rods, cam and ported blower. However, I ported my own heads. These are LS3 heads and are darn good stock. So I knew I didn't need that much more out of them to get to my HP goal of 8xxHP. I also enjoyed the research and work to do the porting. There is something soothing about doing that kind of work to me. Love your videos, you are by far the best source for this information and I just enjoy drinking and watching with you!
this explained a lot of my dilemma of upgrading heads which you already said I don't need to. with every answer I get I end up with 5 more questions lol.. thank you
It depends on if you want a car you can drive daily or a drag car. The thing you have to look at is the amount of heat that you'll generate as you increase horsepower. You can't change the laws of physics. A motor that makes 1000 horsepower is like having a furnace at your feet at WOT. If I were to build a boosted LS, I would add a cam, make sure I had enough ring end gap, and call it a day. The car would have plenty of power when I wanted it and I could go cruising with it. I'd like to drive my car more than 1/4 mile at a time.
When I first found your videos years ago, not gonna lie, I got the wrong impression.. that being said, I just want to thank you for all your hard work, if it was easy everyone would do it. If I found all these LS comparison videos 2 years ago, I guaranteed this would have saved me money on my swap. I landed with an LY6, maybe i'll spend my 1200 on a new VS 78/75 gen 2 - mess around and make 800HP (lol), have something to show for it in the end ;P Thanks again Richard
Dude I never even thought of mixing vodka with Mike's and I work at a beer store. Gonna start cutting wine coolers with vodka now. You are just full of wisdom my friend. Love it!
Love the "Happy Hour" hang out session. Cheers! I greatly appreciate all the content and results. BTW my 6.0L LQ4 junkyard build will be somewhere in the middle. Looking forward to seeing the Sloppy vs. The World videos
I agree, it depends on the budget and power goal. It's not definitely always this or that. It's simply not always necessary for a head and cam package. If you have the cash though. It's always the smart thing to do. For all the obvious reasons you listed. More power at lower boost, more power all around, etc. The right combination regardless which why you go is key. If you want to maximize said combination. That's the biggest mistake most people make. To many try and force a square block in a round hole. Doesn't matter how hard you try. It's not going to work until you have the piece that actually work together.
Instead of comparing at the same boost number--- I would like to see both head configurations max out a set of turbos to see how far apart they would end up. Both intercooled of course--- and maybe on some C-16
I'm somewhere in the middle i guess, I like the idea of saving money on heads and spending it on other things, but also like the idea of making the same power at lower boost.
I myself am building an LQ4 6.0, which started life as a really high mileage longblock. Completely tore it down, going to bring it to a machine shop and use the stock crank, stock gen 4 rods, and do some forged pistons. Already bought ARP head studs and main studs(nearly $500), going to use ARP 2000 rod bolts. Already bought Harland Sharp 1.7 roller rockers and the FAST LSXRT intake manifold. Going to use a "small cam"(216 intake 220 exhaust both 0.600" lift). I'm either sending the original 317 castings heads to Total Engine Airflow for there stage 2 porting(about $1500) or will use the Trick Flow as cast heads for $1900, Trick flow cnc heads for about $2500 or the AFR heads for about $2500. Don't need any of these parts to make the power I want with the cam size I am choosing, but I want to keep a small cam in it and max out everything else. Can always cam swap it later. I prefer to upgrade everything and do it once, regardless of how much more it costs versus a cammed junkyard engine. This engine is going in a 2005 Chevy Tahoe.
I'm a street guy that likes to have a good reliable car or truck. I like to unleash the power of the stock engine with a cam and intake, carb combo. the reason is I'm not a professional racer and I can't justify going all out race gear to cruise the street where I'll never use the maximum amount of of power a race engine can make. I don't need race heads that flow a ton at.700 or. 800 inch of lift to only have a. 500 to .600 lift cam when factory heads flow almost as as good in that range. just like it's useless to put in a big solid roller cam in an engine that won't be revved above 6000 rpm. I learned along time ago to research first ask lots of questions and match the carb to the intake to the heads and cam to displacement and you'll make good usable power for the least amount of money. case in point. my brother has nova it had a 283. he drove it all the time had lots of fun. replaced the 283 with a mild 350 still drove it all the time had more power and more fun. he replaced the 350 with a badly miss matched 400 with 11.1 compression. it's fast and has to run race gas but now it mostly sits in the garage and isn't having fun anymore. he got disgusted with it because now he can't drive it and cruise like he used to. I've tried giving him some ideas to fix it but he isn't too hip to my advice. he was to young to remember my mustang. I blew up 3 transmission and sold the motor
I’m a real supporter of the underdog(and I’m tight with money) so I will go for the stock head deal. Makes me warm inside when I see a real low budget blown ls make more power than a fully built 4 cylinder.
I think the best way to approach this is to just get yourself a 4.8 or 5.3 leave a stock boost it get a feel for it and enjoy it and then get yourself a second engine after all there cheap, while your enjoying your first engine and learning you can take your time and build a second engine the way you want.
I am willing to put an ls on my 72 satellite and this is by far the channel that I enjoy the most. The guy is genuine and true to himself. This is the kind of knowledge I like to listen to. Thanks for making awesome videos :)
Awesome info and it was nice to enjoy a frost beverage with ya after a long day in the clinics! Can’t wait to get my car running this weekend!!! You have been an inspiration! Thank you!
My thought on the more boost vs more airflow mods thing, is more boost is going to increase parasitic losses from added heat on the cold side which may limit timing below optimal. It will also add parasitic losses on the exhaust side as backpressure rises relative to boost pressure. So basically, by not upgrading, youre lowering the ultimate limit of the motor and for a given power level, the non modified motor will be pushed closer to its limit and have a smaller margin of safety. It may also not spool the turbo as fast as a modified motor. The modified motor is clearly the more effective choice, but the non modded motor is plenty effective. So the decision on the "best" choice really comes down to thickness of your wallet.
I built a 377 which is an ls3 with a stock crank. I put my stock ls1 top end on it from my 2004 GTO. Untouched 241 heads, ls6 intake, and stock throttle body. Custom cam and btr .660 lift springs. D1x with 15 psi on E85. I tuned it on the street and it's a lot of fun. Hope to get it to a dyno when things get back to normal to see what the curves look like and how much power it's making. I hope to do heads and a completely different top end next year. I did this simply for budget reasons, but it seems to work a lot better than most would think.
I am more of a street car guy. I'd rather have a more balanced engine that is more efficient than a stocker with big boost. The more I watch you, the more I realize that a smaller turbo with a decent cam and mildly ported heads + a very good tune is the way to go. Less problems, less heat and probably better gas mileage. Also, the engine will last longer. Most people may not care about gas mileage, but gas is 5$ a gallon here.
Killing it out here richard! I love dyno data but I like this more natural happy hour format and having more to the videos than dyno sheets. Keep it up! Straight to the top!
My opinion ( everybody has one, lol) is if you are trying to make maximum power ON PUMP GAS , porting makes sense . You will be octane limited , so na hp will help make more power before you limit out on octane. Softening the chambers is important too , while your porting . Again, to help get by the octane limitations . You guys that have easy access to E85 live in a different world than us that live on 91-93 octane . If E was everywhere , and to make 1000 hp , I probably wouldnt waste my time on port work and chamber softening. The whole cam thing comes in too , even though most LS cams are ground to kill dynamic compression from the start . Wide lsas' help kill peak cylinder pressure down low . Overall, its just a whole different world , E85 vs 93 pumpgas. 1000 hp is almost too easy on E85. You have to open a whole bag of tricks to get close to 1000 on 93. My next combo , if I dont damage my 6.2 block going for power on 93, will be a 416 w all the tricks to make na power AND soften the cylinder pressure down low ( mutually exclusive , i know ,to a point . Compromises ) , then shoot for 1000+ on 93 at minimum boost.
I'm the guy that took rec port BBC head got the machine shop top cut them for 2.25/1.88 valves and the port work myself. I'd like to do the same in my to be turbo'd 6.0L LQ4. Look forward to seeing your porting video
I'm definitely somewhere in the middle. Building a bored and stroked 5.3L out to 6.3 liters. I have nice Cam Motion positive supercharger cam, Eagle forged rotating assembly, stock 862 heads which I'm mildly porting along with buffing the chambers and 2"/1.575" valves. On top will be a 2.9L whipple P.D.S.
the one thing you always overlook is hp with octane limits. like say you have a 5.3 with a decent turbo and want to make a streetable setup at say 800 hp but are limited to 91 octane. lower boost equals lower iat which reduces the risk of detonation. aka a reliable street friendly motor. but I really do appreciate and enjoy your content.
I’ve seen very little of your content to this point & know it’s absolutely awesome reviews from the numerous times you’ve been mentioned in forums over the last couple years. As my build progresses I find myself asking these questions like as what’s my best option on a budget build vs buying aftermarket setups & here you are 😆 I’m currently building a forged 5.3 shortblock with factory crank. Considering what I want the top end to look like as far as power levels go & running my stock 862s, modifying them, or other alternatives. Thanks for the info./content man! It helps a lot of us out tremendously when some guys don’t want to review or repeat it in posts. We all gravitate back to the knowledge you’ve shared time & time again. Keep up the good work
@@richardholdener1727 I’m glad someone out there is as interested in the testing as I am. Not sure if you’ve mentioned it yet as I’m playing catch up on all the videos but I’m looking for limits of stock 862 valves in my forged bottom end 5.3 that’ll be high revving & thrashed on. Hoping with all ARP hardware & a good tune that the valve doesn’t become the weak link that hurts anything else. I’m not very social media savvy but I’ll see if I can find the live feed! Thank you 💪🏼
I'm honestly in the middle. I want the most reliable power I can get from my budget. You see I'm a lazy hot rod guy, I want to be able to just hop in and drive my car. If I have to spend a bit more to achieve my power goals or I have to be more realistic with those goals that's totally fine by me. Because remember wasting time or money will always suck.
Trevor your absolutely right how deep is your pocket determines how much power you make !!! But i see alot of this turbo cam intalls because of it being forced induction but i willing to bet that any stage n/a cam will make more power than its equal stage turbo cam, this is something id like to see in comparison with reasonable hp levels, hook it up Richard !!! Your vids are awesome !!!
Porting the heads properly increases power and reduced the PSI, by increasing the flow rate; reducing the PSI of the system decreases the heat generated, so you need less intercooler for the same amount of power. I had this discussion and experimented before. Porting helps. Angle milling the heads, from .128 on the exhaust side to nothing on the intake side helped a lot.....
drinking "octane booster" ;) I'm more in the 80/20 rule. Most bang for the buck, optimal performance and not just peak hp. I also wouldn't upsize the 706 valves. I think they work best with the port size and manifold. the thing with unshrouding intake valves is that we DON'T want fuel to flow to the cylinder wall! That's where flowbench flow doesn't equal more hp. Most of the airflow gain is from the valve job! Blend a little and you've got the lion's share of the gains. Like you said, there's nothing gained from port matching...and probably lost. Dyno with *just* the unshrouding and see what happens.
You must now teach us the porting mystic arts. Big Bang motors brought us LS boost goodness, now happy hour and horsepower will bring home brew head porting! Give me 90% performance for 10% dollars any day. Double wishbone alley cat tiger toe spider 2Y banana here we come!
I come from the SBC experience with build a really good rotating assembly and put the best heads you can afford on it. This Sloppy Junkyard turbo stuff for a little more to maybe double what I have spent on a set of heads alone is really intriguing because I've never experienced that kind of power. However I'm in disbelief that it's that simple and that I'd rather clean up that junk yard slug and get it to where it's not going to pop because I didnt check this or that and or this little thing wasn't right and send garbage out into the turbo and need to get another slug and turbo. I hope that makes sense...
I always say. I’m just gona unshroud the valves a lil and just touch up the casting flashing. And I always end up porting the shit out of em. LS’s make tons of power with a lil port work.
From looking at Richard's tests, they really don't seem to add at whole lot. I mean when you only see a 20-30 hp gain going to rectangle port heads it sure seems easier to just go a little bigger on cam.
Supercharged E-40 lemonade! I'd like to try my hand at porting someday. But I haven't slept all night and I have a brake job to do in 4 hours. Goodnight.
just putting a pistons / rods / cam 10.5:1 370 together for 3600# street car with 317's I'll do some mild porting on. I have 821's and the rect truck intake that were going on after porting, decking, and valves but cautious about spending money in this new world. The new plan is to run the 317's with the cathedral truck intake and stock throttle body, rails etc and learn to tune on that combo. Hopefully have the time and resources to throw the rest of the combo on it next winter and see how it compares. In reality, the chassis will be overwhelmed with 500 whp so that will just lead to more mods and money I'm sure
Doing my first LS swap in a 86 short bed so going stock for now till I can get it running.. learning as I go need lots of help not a whole lot of cash flow to get it done
my first turbo build i was very budget minded, now as im building my second setup im slowly starting to come into the "grey" area... first setup was just a junkyard engine GT45 and a sloppy stage 2. Now im using a actual turbo camshaft, better heads that are home ported a borg s475 and a few more performance odds and ends plus some visual features too... it was fun to see how cheap and easy it was to do on a budget, now its nice to throw a couple mindful bucks here and there on the setup to see what gains ill have over my first build.
There is another reason to go to an aftermarket cylinder head, and that is for the thicker deck. Factory cylinder heads have much thinner decks and will start to flex and push water at high cylinder pressures.
My opinion... It depends on what you are going to do with your car. Bombing around the street, having fun on the highway, may see a drag strip a couple times a year; cam, springs and decent turbo. Wanting to race a couple to three times a month, and be competitive; spring for the damn good heads.
Hey Richard, my turn to do some teaching. It looks like your chimney has water intrusion issues. You should probably contact a professional and have them come out and give it a inspection. Thank you for all the great info. Dennis.
If you are racing and the limiting factor is power adder sizing then you will need everything. Stage 99 head hogging, big solid roller cam, lightweight rotating assembly (relatively, but designed for power adder) Ported everything and big intake and exhaust piping.
He even puts "boost" on his lemonade.
🤣🤣
Nitro, not boost. lol
Everythings better with boost
@@billbirmingham nitro is just boost in a bottle. 😉
XD
Richard is definitely the type of guy I'd like to drink and talk cars with.
I linking while I’m dristening to him talk.
Why would you wanna drink richard
Yup just don’t think I could do the hard lemonade but that’s cool if that’s what he likes
I'm just imaging Richard's neighbors hanging out on the fence listening to story time haha
The key is to make the engine as efficient as possible before putting the turbo kit on.
My thoughts exactly
Your content has improved a lot since earlier days. You used to sound like a sales man, but now I really enjoy seeing your true personality coming out. Thanks for sharing.
Tiit Saul I loved this guys content back when it was just in magazines, but his early videos felt kinda “forced”. This more laid back format is cool. It’s like talking to that car guy neighbor we had growing up.
I like his new approach but the old spitfire info got the job done too. This is good for folks that need someone to talk them through the data though and he delivers! Richard is the man!!!
Boils down to "how big is your wallet" most often it seems
that's what car modding is. how fast do you wanna go vs. how much do you wanna spend.
better flowong heada that allow lower boost for the same HP might result in lower IATs which means you worry less about knock, which could mean the difference between using pump gas vs e85 or having better ignition timings. also gives the motor some room to grow for bigger turbos in the future.
Cash represents time spent or risk in the past, if you spend last year's time to buy the heads or time porting it now yourself it makes no difference as both are time spent past or present. Or time spent in the future for those who put such things on a credit card.
Speed costs money, how fast... Richard, you make it so easy for all the rest of us to make well informed decisions on how to spend our money, cost benefit, real world results... the list goes on. Easily one of the most educational and interesting engine channels on youtube. Please don't ever stop being you. Cheers!
For me it is important that it will last for long time.
Better with 500-600hp on the street then 900 in the garage !
Heads aren't going to be the issue with reliability when speaking boost
Mr flimflam fremdippity danyet well heads allow to run lower boost so lower boost means less strain and more longevity
Back in the late 80s I worked for Magnum Plus Nitrous based out of Houston. My Boss, the owner of the company said, Your motor is like your relationship if you don't have good head you will never maximize your performance" RIP John Stewart
Now we need a set of videos on how to port LS heads at home
There all over TH-cam and everyone almost says they are right and everyone else is wrong so I went to where all the horse power is made at a race shop down in fort Myers that let me hang out and watch this dude didn't even know his name and learned form him after trying a bunch of times ya learning by watching is the only way TH-cam videos well your not there and you really can't see it form all angles recommend doing it live the only way to learn
LS firing order 🤓 Love the shirt man! 🍻
THNX
I’m the DIY middle of the road guy. Port it myself and do what I can’t within my budget.
I think people underestimate how much 700hp in a street car actually is lol
Most people riding in a 700hp turbo car will believe you if you told them it makes 1200.
Funny cause it's true!
My C6 Z06 makes 630rwhp n/a on 93 pump gas. You can't hook it on the street whatever.
Totally agree.👍 Look how fast a 300bhp rally car is. In my current build (Pulsar GTiR, turbo 2.0L, ) I don't want more than 275AWkW. Then I wont be able to drive it on the throttle in the mountains. The roads are too narrow and twisty. Needs to be progressive and responsive.
Horses for courses. Some people want a traffic light hero. And that's cool to. But I don't like speeding tickets 😉
Heck Ian, even a lazy 500hp from ~ 500cubes in a sub 3500lb car is enough to frighten you with under 3.5:1 gears. The gobs wheelspin from the tall gearing makes the rear end feel like it's on ice. Very disconcerting when you hoof it in a built up area, it steps out and you snap the throttle off, it bites and cavorts off in a direction you'd rather it didn't. Parked cars, poles, pedestrians, gutters etc take on a surreal aspect lol.
To be fair unless you are racing anything more than 350 hp with decent torque is all you should ever want on the street. Doing rolling burnouts when you are already doing 60 mph really is overkill
I'm a big fan of Happy Hour & Horse Power!!
My vote always has been with "efficiency". Port your turbo heads. Cooler intake temps. Lower pressure levels. Lower backpressure. Literally zero downsides except "wallet".
Kincent Carter it’s like porting your wallet!
@@PetesGarageandperformance hell yeah
I’m on the side where I want a power level but needs to be reliable and easy on the motor for long lasting fun!!
@Why Zee Two Fiddy then Richard Holdner drops a video giving you all 3 breaking every law in physics....
Also the term “fast” is very subjective. What used to be considered fast is no longer fast.
I’m on the every thing side but my wallet is on the bone stock side IV got something in the middle. 4.8 stage two cam springs and gt45 clone tremonatorX 9.883 at 16.5 psi wC16 and 22 deg timing. 3250p s10.
What kind of power are you seeing out of your gt45 or trap speed. I've got a 5.3 with 706s btr ss2 turbo cam sheet metal intake and 102mm tb with a emusa gt45r (rearmounted) trying to get to around 750whp so I can dip into 9s with my fbody. So far with a stock ls1 with sheetmetal intake an tb only on 9#s I made 530whp/540tq stock 60e/10bolt. I'm thinking if I can get 18#s I should be able to get around 750whp and dip into 9s out of the gt45r. 🤞🤞
Ported heads are good on N\A \ turbo \ nitrous or blown engine. No matter what setup ported or better heads are worth it. Now if its in the budget thats a different story
What i love about your and sloppy mekhanics is that you dont have to make a million buck to have fun ! thank you for everything your testing out for us !
I’ve been looking at the tfs genx 205’s for a couple years. Thanks for the video. This saved me $2200.
Richard is the definitive guide to all things ls. Hes down to earth, will answer your questions and is probably the single most important channel for almost all things ls and testing.
THNX
I’m so excited to see your video of how to port heads at home, if Brian tooley was leaning over your shoulder.. Take all the time you like, excruciating detail is welcome!
I have a 6.0 na that I put ported 243 heads on with ported tbss intake and cam. For a street driven truck it’s a lot to handle. I have thought of adding a turbo but I think 500whp is a lot for the street. Maybe I’m just old school, I remember when you had to really build an engine to make 500 at the flywheel now a stock 6.0 with a cam swap will do it. For a street driven car that I wanted to be quick I would go with the stock 6.0 or 6.2, change the cam then a small turbo with about 7lbs of boost. I think that would make the best all around fun car. I go ported heads on an na engine though.
Best gear head on TH-cam hands down. You're awesome Rich!
Appreciate that
Over a 2 year period of time I helped a friend tune his 1080cc (Kaw. ZRX1100) from 120Hp NA up to 500Hp with Turbo.
One of the "several" build combinations/upgrades was head work. Long story short, we jumped from 220Hp to 260Hp with the head work (same cams, cam timing and boost) 👍
Mods were over size valves (with proper un-shrouding in combustion chamber), porting (which included epoxy for calculated critical choke area in intake ports).
He did raise the compression from 8:1 to 8.4 so not all of the 40Hp gained was from the head work but most of it was...
Richard I'm glad you mentioned valve de-shrouding. IMHO this is where most gains are and it's pretty easy.
Bowl work is definitely the most power per hour of labor. I have yet to see a decently modern engine which benefits more than marginally from deshrouding - unless you add a significant change in bore diameter.
@@needadate do both with a parallel valve v8
"now its a mikes hard lemonade... With a purpose". I vote that Richard Holdener should replace Johnathan Goldsmith as the most interesting man in the world for 2020. Just need to get Richard to do a video in a smoking jacket. Great video as always.
I'm SMOKIN in any Jacket
I have a 6.0 I’m working on boosting, since I paid 1500 bucks for it i am going take Richards advise and do the things needed to be done to keep it together, if I had the 500 dollar version LS I would just send it for sure then go buy another as soon as it expired.
Richard knows so much.very knowledgeable.
Im defenitly in the middle! Doing myself everything you teach us and that i can do in my house. Thank you Richard
6.0 with some cleaned up 706's. Super punchy turbo down low. Basically a single turbo LS "EcoBoost" combo that pulls to 6k. 500 tire on low boost with 91 octane. The Unicorn.
Sounds good.
Impressive how humble you are God has blessed you with a wonderful gift!
These videos are incredible! I would love to see a VVT cam vs non VVT with the same cam specs on both! L94 L99
Won't really make more power just the torque curve will be wider.
Now we are Talkin 😃!
LS, cam, springs, turbo. It's too easy and too awesome.
Love the "Happy Hour and Horsepower" premise! I'm an in the middle leaning a little more towards spending the money kind of guy. My build is a L76 stroker 403 with an LSA blower. I spent the money on the crank, pistons, rods, cam and ported blower. However, I ported my own heads. These are LS3 heads and are darn good stock. So I knew I didn't need that much more out of them to get to my HP goal of 8xxHP. I also enjoyed the research and work to do the porting. There is something soothing about doing that kind of work to me. Love your videos, you are by far the best source for this information and I just enjoy drinking and watching with you!
wish i herd this type of reasoning 10 years ago. Took a lot of time an money to figure out what richard just said. Great vids man keep them going.
If you’re gonna gap the rings, you might as well do heads n cam
this explained a lot of my dilemma of upgrading heads which you already said I don't need to. with every answer I get I end up with 5 more questions lol.. thank you
It depends on if you want a car you can drive daily or a drag car. The thing you have to look at is the amount of heat that you'll generate as you increase horsepower. You can't change the laws of physics. A motor that makes 1000 horsepower is like having a furnace at your feet at WOT. If I were to build a boosted LS, I would add a cam, make sure I had enough ring end gap, and call it a day. The car would have plenty of power when I wanted it and I could go cruising with it. I'd like to drive my car more than 1/4 mile at a time.
When I first found your videos years ago, not gonna lie, I got the wrong impression.. that being said, I just want to thank you for all your hard work, if it was easy everyone would do it. If I found all these LS comparison videos 2 years ago, I guaranteed this would have saved me money on my swap. I landed with an LY6, maybe i'll spend my 1200 on a new VS 78/75 gen 2 - mess around and make 800HP (lol), have something to show for it in the end ;P
Thanks again Richard
good combo
Anything that makes it good, adding boost makes it More GOODER!
Dude I never even thought of mixing vodka with Mike's and I work at a beer store. Gonna start cutting wine coolers with vodka now. You are just full of wisdom my friend. Love it!
or shine-that's full boost
@@richardholdener1727 I'd hate to see that big bang 🤣
Love the "Happy Hour" hang out session. Cheers! I greatly appreciate all the content and results. BTW my 6.0L LQ4 junkyard build will be somewhere in the middle. Looking forward to seeing the Sloppy vs. The World videos
I agree, it depends on the budget and power goal. It's not definitely always this or that. It's simply not always necessary for a head and cam package. If you have the cash though. It's always the smart thing to do. For all the obvious reasons you listed. More power at lower boost, more power all around, etc. The right combination regardless which why you go is key. If you want to maximize said combination. That's the biggest mistake most people make. To many try and force a square block in a round hole. Doesn't matter how hard you try. It's not going to work until you have the piece that actually work together.
Thanks for the info I have ben kinda lost in what LS to put in my 1981 c10 Daly driver keep up the good videos
Instead of comparing at the same boost number--- I would like to see both head configurations max out a set of turbos to see how far apart they would end up. Both intercooled of course--- and maybe on some C-16
Loving your philosophy on the grayer subjects. More of this ; it's good stuff. A rod stroke ratio video would be awesome.
nothing there
I'm somewhere in the middle i guess, I like the idea of saving money on heads and spending it on other things, but also like the idea of making the same power at lower boost.
I myself am building an LQ4 6.0, which started life as a really high mileage longblock. Completely tore it down, going to bring it to a machine shop and use the stock crank, stock gen 4 rods, and do some forged pistons. Already bought ARP head studs and main studs(nearly $500), going to use ARP 2000 rod bolts. Already bought Harland Sharp 1.7 roller rockers and the FAST LSXRT intake manifold. Going to use a "small cam"(216 intake 220 exhaust both 0.600" lift). I'm either sending the original 317 castings heads to Total Engine Airflow for there stage 2 porting(about $1500) or will use the Trick Flow as cast heads for $1900, Trick flow cnc heads for about $2500 or the AFR heads for about $2500. Don't need any of these parts to make the power I want with the cam size I am choosing, but I want to keep a small cam in it and max out everything else. Can always cam swap it later. I prefer to upgrade everything and do it once, regardless of how much more it costs versus a cammed junkyard engine. This engine is going in a 2005 Chevy Tahoe.
Definitely in the middle....dnt have a huge budget but added cam and head work sure makes it easier to grow in power dwn the road
I'm a street guy that likes to have a good reliable car or truck. I like to unleash the power of the stock engine with a cam and intake, carb combo. the reason is I'm not a professional racer and I can't justify going all out race gear to cruise the street where I'll never use the maximum amount of of power a race engine can make. I don't need race heads that flow a ton at.700 or. 800 inch of lift to only have a. 500 to .600 lift cam when factory heads flow almost as as good in that range. just like it's useless to put in a big solid roller cam in an engine that won't be revved above 6000 rpm. I learned along time ago to research first ask lots of questions and match the carb to the intake to the heads and cam to displacement and you'll make good usable power for the least amount of money. case in point. my brother has nova it had a 283. he drove it all the time had lots of fun. replaced the 283 with a mild 350 still drove it all the time had more power and more fun. he replaced the 350 with a badly miss matched 400 with 11.1 compression. it's fast and has to run race gas but now it mostly sits in the garage and isn't having fun anymore. he got disgusted with it because now he can't drive it and cruise like he used to. I've tried giving him some ideas to fix it but he isn't too hip to my advice. he was to young to remember my mustang. I blew up 3 transmission and sold the motor
I’m a real supporter of the underdog(and I’m tight with money) so I will go for the stock head deal. Makes me warm inside when I see a real low budget blown ls make more power than a fully built 4 cylinder.
Let the turbo do the work. If it isn't going to break don't fix it
Your videos are becoming a daily routine for me mate, would love to have a pint with you one day cheers 🍻
I think the best way to approach this is to just get yourself a 4.8 or 5.3 leave a stock boost it get a feel for it and enjoy it and then get yourself a second engine after all there cheap, while your enjoying your first engine and learning you can take your time and build a second engine the way you want.
"With a purpose"
My man...
I don't know, but I've heard that drinking Mike's will make your hair fall out...
@@michaelangelo8001 🤣
I am willing to put an ls on my 72 satellite and this is by far the channel that I enjoy the most. The guy is genuine and true to himself. This is the kind of knowledge I like to listen to. Thanks for making awesome videos :)
Awesome info and it was nice to enjoy a frost beverage with ya after a long day in the clinics! Can’t wait to get my car running this weekend!!! You have been an inspiration! Thank you!
get going
My thought on the more boost vs more airflow mods thing, is more boost is going to increase parasitic losses from added heat on the cold side which may limit timing below optimal. It will also add parasitic losses on the exhaust side as backpressure rises relative to boost pressure. So basically, by not upgrading, youre lowering the ultimate limit of the motor and for a given power level, the non modified motor will be pushed closer to its limit and have a smaller margin of safety. It may also not spool the turbo as fast as a modified motor. The modified motor is clearly the more effective choice, but the non modded motor is plenty effective. So the decision on the "best" choice really comes down to thickness of your wallet.
Seems like this was a no brainer but the way you explain it really helps prove it! Thanks Richard
I built a 377 which is an ls3 with a stock crank. I put my stock ls1 top end on it from my 2004 GTO. Untouched 241 heads, ls6 intake, and stock throttle body. Custom cam and btr .660 lift springs. D1x with 15 psi on E85. I tuned it on the street and it's a lot of fun. Hope to get it to a dyno when things get back to normal to see what the curves look like and how much power it's making. I hope to do heads and a completely different top end next year. I did this simply for budget reasons, but it seems to work a lot better than most would think.
Porting if done right will always help, on boosted motors you would skew things to the exhaust side,
I am more of a street car guy. I'd rather have a more balanced engine that is more efficient than a stocker with big boost.
The more I watch you, the more I realize that a smaller turbo with a decent cam and mildly ported heads + a very good tune is the way to go. Less problems, less heat and probably better gas mileage. Also, the engine will last longer.
Most people may not care about gas mileage, but gas is 5$ a gallon here.
Killing it out here richard! I love dyno data but I like this more natural happy hour format and having more to the videos than dyno sheets.
Keep it up! Straight to the top!
Day 13 down to Mike's and old dyno footage, must survive... Richard thanks man for the content!!
My opinion ( everybody has one, lol) is if you are trying to make maximum power ON PUMP GAS , porting makes sense . You will be octane limited , so na hp will help make more power before you limit out on octane. Softening the chambers is important too , while your porting . Again, to help get by the octane limitations .
You guys that have easy access to E85 live in a different world than us that live on 91-93 octane .
If E was everywhere , and to make 1000 hp , I probably wouldnt waste my time on port work and chamber softening.
The whole cam thing comes in too , even though most LS cams are ground to kill dynamic compression from the start . Wide lsas' help kill peak cylinder pressure down low .
Overall, its just a whole different world , E85 vs 93 pumpgas.
1000 hp is almost too easy on E85. You have to open a whole bag of tricks to get close to 1000 on 93.
My next combo , if I dont damage my 6.2 block going for power on 93, will be a 416 w all the tricks to make na power AND soften the cylinder pressure down low ( mutually exclusive , i know ,to a point . Compromises ) , then shoot for 1000+ on 93 at minimum boost.
I did my best on my first port job .. turned out pretty good
I wouldn't pay to have stocked heads machined...If I couldn't do it myself, I'd just buy aftermarket performance heads.
I'm the guy that took rec port BBC head got the machine shop top cut them for 2.25/1.88 valves and the port work myself. I'd like to do the same in my to be turbo'd 6.0L LQ4. Look forward to seeing your porting video
I'm definitely somewhere in the middle. Building a bored and stroked 5.3L out to 6.3 liters. I have nice Cam Motion positive supercharger cam, Eagle forged rotating assembly, stock 862 heads which I'm mildly porting along with buffing the chambers and 2"/1.575" valves. On top will be a 2.9L whipple P.D.S.
the one thing you always overlook is hp with octane limits. like say you have a 5.3 with a decent turbo and want to make a streetable setup at say 800 hp but are limited to 91 octane. lower boost equals lower iat which reduces the risk of detonation. aka a reliable street friendly motor. but I really do appreciate and enjoy your content.
I DON'T OVERLOOK HP WITH OCTANE LIMITS-YOU RUN LESS TIMING AND MAKE LESS POWER
How does Richard only have 38k followers? The info he provides alone is invaluable.
I’ve seen very little of your content to this point & know it’s absolutely awesome reviews from the numerous times you’ve been mentioned in forums over the last couple years. As my build progresses I find myself asking these questions like as what’s my best option on a budget build vs buying aftermarket setups & here you are 😆 I’m currently building a forged 5.3 shortblock with factory crank. Considering what I want the top end to look like as far as power levels go & running my stock 862s, modifying them, or other alternatives. Thanks for the info./content man! It helps a lot of us out tremendously when some guys don’t want to review or repeat it in posts. We all gravitate back to the knowledge you’ve shared time & time again. Keep up the good work
happy to help-join the live feeds I have daily to get answers to direct questions
@@richardholdener1727 I’m glad someone out there is as interested in the testing as I am. Not sure if you’ve mentioned it yet as I’m playing catch up on all the videos but I’m looking for limits of stock 862 valves in my forged bottom end 5.3 that’ll be high revving & thrashed on. Hoping with all ARP hardware & a good tune that the valve doesn’t become the weak link that hurts anything else. I’m not very social media savvy but I’ll see if I can find the live feed! Thank you 💪🏼
Richard, you are a Mad Scientist & I love you for it !!!! Thank you for all you do !
I'm honestly in the middle. I want the most reliable power I can get from my budget. You see I'm a lazy hot rod guy, I want to be able to just hop in and drive my car. If I have to spend a bit more to achieve my power goals or I have to be more realistic with those goals that's totally fine by me. Because remember wasting time or money will always suck.
Like and comment for the algorithm. Keep up the good work Richard!
I’m a somewhere in the middle guy. I know they say, never say never, buy I will never buy Chinese again. Ever. Like never ever.
Had me on the edge thinking you were going to knock over that drink. That's some experienced hand gesturing right there.
Cant get enough of your videos. the amount of information and knowledge you share (for free) is amazing. thank you so much.
How much do you want to spend is the question.
Really enjoying the videos. I’m on the “if I’m gonna do it I want it all “ side
Trevor your absolutely right how deep is your pocket determines how much power you make !!! But i see alot of this turbo cam intalls because of it being forced induction but i willing to bet that any stage n/a cam will make more power than its equal stage turbo cam, this is something id like to see in comparison with reasonable hp levels, hook it up Richard !!! Your vids are awesome !!!
Great job Richard!!! I’d rather go better heads and less boost. And nice shirt by the way!!!!
Porting the heads properly increases power and reduced the PSI, by increasing the flow rate; reducing the PSI of the system decreases the heat generated, so you need less intercooler for the same amount of power.
I had this discussion and experimented before.
Porting helps.
Angle milling the heads, from .128 on the exhaust side to nothing on the intake side helped a lot.....
drinking "octane booster" ;)
I'm more in the 80/20 rule. Most bang for the buck, optimal performance and not just peak hp. I also wouldn't upsize the 706 valves. I think they work best with the port size and manifold.
the thing with unshrouding intake valves is that we DON'T want fuel to flow to the cylinder wall! That's where flowbench flow doesn't equal more hp. Most of the airflow gain is from the valve job! Blend a little and you've got the lion's share of the gains. Like you said, there's nothing gained from port matching...and probably lost. Dyno with *just* the unshrouding and see what happens.
You must now teach us the porting mystic arts. Big Bang motors brought us LS boost goodness, now happy hour and horsepower will bring home brew head porting!
Give me 90% performance for 10% dollars any day.
Double wishbone alley cat tiger toe spider 2Y banana here we come!
I come from the SBC experience with build a really good rotating assembly and put the best heads you can afford on it. This Sloppy Junkyard turbo stuff for a little more to maybe double what I have spent on a set of heads alone is really intriguing because I've never experienced that kind of power. However I'm in disbelief that it's that simple and that I'd rather clean up that junk yard slug and get it to where it's not going to pop because I didnt check this or that and or this little thing wasn't right and send garbage out into the turbo and need to get another slug and turbo. I hope that makes sense...
PLUS 10 Points for the Oran Juice Jones line:
“alley-cat-coat-wearing
Hush-Puppy-shoe-wearing crumbcake” You sir earned my subscription!😆
OG
I always say. I’m just gona unshroud the valves a lil and just touch up the casting flashing. And I always end up porting the shit out of em. LS’s make tons of power with a lil port work.
From looking at Richard's tests, they really don't seem to add at whole lot. I mean when you only see a 20-30 hp gain going to rectangle port heads it sure seems easier to just go a little bigger on cam.
Supercharged E-40 lemonade! I'd like to try my hand at porting someday. But I haven't slept all night and I have a brake job to do in 4 hours. Goodnight.
just putting a pistons / rods / cam 10.5:1 370 together for 3600# street car with 317's I'll do some mild porting on. I have 821's and the rect truck intake that were going on after porting, decking, and valves but cautious about spending money in this new world. The new plan is to run the 317's with the cathedral truck intake and stock throttle body, rails etc and learn to tune on that combo. Hopefully have the time and resources to throw the rest of the combo on it next winter and see how it compares. In reality, the chassis will be overwhelmed with 500 whp so that will just lead to more mods and money I'm sure
Thank you for all of these videos. Love them, so much information. You rock 🤘
Doing my first LS swap in a 86 short bed so going stock for now till I can get it running.. learning as I go need lots of help not a whole lot of cash flow to get it done
Want it Fast, & the Most Power, then you do Everything you can.
Great video really happy with what I have learned from your channel
my first turbo build i was very budget minded, now as im building my second setup im slowly starting to come into the "grey" area... first setup was just a junkyard engine GT45 and a sloppy stage 2. Now im using a actual turbo camshaft, better heads that are home ported a borg s475 and a few more performance odds and ends plus some visual features too... it was fun to see how cheap and easy it was to do on a budget, now its nice to throw a couple mindful bucks here and there on the setup to see what gains ill have over my first build.
There is another reason to go to an aftermarket cylinder head, and that is for the thicker deck. Factory cylinder heads have much thinner decks and will start to flex and push water at high cylinder pressures.
Yes-I meant to cover that-I was drinking
My opinion... It depends on what you are going to do with your car. Bombing around the street, having fun on the highway, may see a drag strip a couple times a year; cam, springs and decent turbo.
Wanting to race a couple to three times a month, and be competitive; spring for the damn good heads.
Hey Richard, my turn to do some teaching. It looks like your chimney has water intrusion issues. You should probably contact a professional and have them come out and give it a inspection. Thank you for all the great info. Dennis.
If you are racing and the limiting factor is power adder sizing then you will need everything. Stage 99 head hogging, big solid roller cam, lightweight rotating assembly (relatively, but designed for power adder) Ported everything and big intake and exhaust piping.