@@chizmw Roxxi was never mad that Mark was evil (Harpy choose Roxxi as pick1 and Mark as pick2) therefore Ben decided to kill both of them (Harpy's ability) when Mark nommed to seem it was a witch kill
@@bort9922 yeah that's what my friend and I figured in the end. It's hard to say when in your position at that time. I can't blame you. The script is kind of unforgiving in that sense because of the existence of the Lleech on it.
"Milk isn't clear. It's white." Absolutely hilarious comment from Ben. One of many perfectly timed and executed jokes Ben makes on the lifetime of this channel
Absolutely a great game. Pretending I’m hanging out with my friends (I’ve never met any of these people) on a holiday isn’t sad at all. It’s not like I’m very grateful for this video to be a distraction from that, but if I were, I’d want to truly empathize my gratitude for this video. Cheers!
It was a fruitful conversation, if colourful. I told Milk I was the Philosopher who didn't feel like expanding beyond that. I also shared that Malashaan claimed minion to me earlier in the day. Milk told me he might survive execution, which was also true. We had fun with it, but it wasn't a waste of time.
Can Brain offer some alternative setup to the Grimoire reveal where it doesn't close everyone's cameras? There are now thousands of videos in the app that edge you for 2 hours only to completely blue-ball you at the reveal. Or can Ben just reveal the truth and THEN go to a reveal instead?
Fun trivia thing (not game related but came up lol). Seersucker IS a real thing... it's just a striped clothing pattern and has nothing to do with hats. So close, Jojo, but just a little bit too far
Character idea: the Transporter. I have no idea if this should be a townsfolk, an outsider, a minion, or a traveller, but it is as follows: "once per game, (including the first) choose two characters. Anyone who would see or affect one instead does it to the other. You cannot pick yourself." So the transporter on night one picks person 1 and person 2. Someone gets a noble ping on person 1, but because of the transporter, they instead get it on person 2. The demon kills person 2, but because of the transporter, they instead kill person 1. Could probably use tweaking, I'm not sure. I lean towards it being a townsfolk because of how much it could mess with evil. It seems really strong so I said once per game but it could be every night or some half measure like every odd night depending on what alignment it gets. Full disclosure: this is inspired by the Transporter from Town of Salem. Could probably use with a new name as well but I can't come up with any lol.
I wouldn't make it a Traveller because people are going to ask them who they picked because everyone knows they're for sure in play and it also doesn't mess with the game as much as you'd want it to if everyone knows it's happening somewhere. Because of how likely it'll mess with evil team, I also wouldn't make it an Outsider. Probably not a Minion ability, because I'm not sure how often that'd help over just backfiring on them and/or confirming they're in play. Hard to say without playtesting. I think Minion and Townsfolk are both possible, maybe. I'd definitely not make it every night or every other night. That's far too powerful. Maybe if it was an Amnesiac ability, since those need to be powerful. If you want to nerf it slightly, you can force them to use it first night by making it "On your first night, ..." Also, if you do end up creating it, you'll want to say "player" not "character", based on how you described it. It'd probably be less interesting if it was character anyways since you don't know if they're in play. Something like "Once per game, at night, choose two players: any ability that would register with one instead registers with the other." That probably covers everything. (Someone seeing a player would because of their ability registering with that player, so it's redundant.) Seems like a cool idea. I'm adding it to my list of homebrew ideas and crediting you on it for the design, even though it's technically a ToS role. 👍
@@kyleb8117 ah yeah, I should've said choose two players, that's what I meant anyways. Thanks, and I think you've done a lot better analysis on it than me hah. Also I've just noticed I said the demon killed first night, but oops, it was just for clarifying how it works anyways. Also, name ideas: Cartwright or Porter if Townsfolk, Portalist (Portallist?) or the Boggart if Minion.
@@vastowen4562 Big fan of all of those names, especially Boggart. I also think Transporter is fine. I was wracking my brain trying to help you think of ideas of a name, but man am I bad at naming things. lol
In regards to the tool being used to play the game, as a storyteller, would some functionality to click on a player and see what notes theyve written about in their world of how the game is going be helpful at all? Or would that be a bit too far from trying to simulate IRL play?
When the experimental characters are available for purchase to those who didn't make the kickstarter, will newer characters like the harpy, knight, and steward be included?
Hypothetically, can a vigor killed harpy choose themselves to be mad a good player is demon to try and entice the ST to kill that player? Likely won't ever happen for a multitude of reasons. Just wonder if possible.
Mechanically that works, but if I were the ST they'd have to play up that they think the player is evil and then back down convincingly in the right moment (like when the person nominates, simulating witch, for example). On the final day I'd be extremely hesitant to enforce that, on all other days it has a strong possibility of outing the Harpy and the demon type as Vigormortis and those risks balance things out. An already openly evil, vigorkilled harpy would effectively turn into an immortal psychopath but the ST can just stop enforcing something that powerful when it's based in madness. If that's a worry though, implementing a Vigor Harpy Jinx where the Harpy while vigorkilled can only choose themselves as the first player if the second player is also dead seems fine.
@@alchemicpink2392 Oh for sure, like I said I don't think it'd ever happen and the more I think about it the worse of an idea it is. Evil probably wouldn't want to do it eother as it would clearly signal who the Harpy is and what the demon is, which would close off so many worlds in an instant, assuming not near the end of the game. There is no good reason for it.
Technically yes, but i’m pretty sure that almost every storytellers will see it as cheating. Exactly like if the harpy selects the other minion and the demon (like here), but the minion decides to not follow the madness, i’m pretty confident that the ST won’t kill both
if you can pick dead players... and the harpy is vigor mortised and they are NOT allowed to pick themselves right? cause thats just a wacky interaction right?
It’s not an attack, it’s a setup feature. It drunks the soldier whose power wouldn’t be tested by a non suicidal lleech anyway. It would be a fun attack with a scarlet woman, I imagine.
If the harpy can make dead and evil players made they could just use it as an extra death each day. Even nore crazy with a vigored harpy. - I am mad that x is evil. - oh x i dont think youre evil. - x is dead With good timing you fake a witch kill every day
Storyteller discretion would prevent this. There are zero stakes for them to commit and it incorporates an unfair advantage in that situation. My opinion on exactly why the wording is _might_ die, so the storyteller isn’t locked into being obligated to unfairly run through the game based on mechanics. I like boardgames that involve a referee as part of a gameplay (war games usually), but a storyteller isn’t a referee. They’re there to make tough calls and follow through on the fun world building, not punish people for participating with unfair mechanics. Not criticizing you for the question, it’s important to ask about that, but I figure “experimental” characters probably have a long history of playtesting. Hard to take back an official showcasing that would resort with such an open flaw.
@@Katz0801 the short version? I play on the ClockClock server at least once a week, and very regularly get exed day 1 (which is *hilarious*😑). There’s another player (I’ll just call them “player A”) who often says “can we not kill Tam day 1 this time?” Night 1, the harpy player makes player A mad that I’m evil, resulting in me being executed day one. They then spent the rest of the game making random players mad that Player A is evil. Neither I nor player A enjoyed that interaction.
@@tammyboy2084 Oh no, someone who is using the rules of the game is now a bully because I don't know how to use social interaction to turn the game in my favor. Pout pout, cry cry. Grow up, get better, stop crying. Pile of human trash.
Soldier is sober and healthy and cannot be killed by the Demon. But they still need to die in order the Lleech to die. It's actually a great pick for the Lleech, as it's undetectable. - Ben
With all the madness, drunkenness, poisoning, and sailor lying he's a leech for no reason, I have no idea how the good side can ever come to a divisive conclusion. Games ends with "idk let's just pick someone. he seems sus i guess." It's entertaining though.
This is also simply because the players know each other so well. They are more playful. They know when someone is being serious and will read it as such but honestly him saying he is the Lleech is probably what confirmed he was good to most of them.
Unfortunately, and maybe I'm saying this in the wrong area, I think this is a feature of Ben as the ST. He seems to genuinely believe that actively engineering a game every time until ultimately there is just a random guess as to which alive character is the demon is the ideal 'exciting' finish.
I don't know if somebody already asked this, but is it visible to everyone with whom you speaking? I mean in the chat rooms, are the members visible? Could player deduce the bad guys just by with whom Ben is speaking first?
Yes, absolutely. The app attempts to simulate what an in-person game would look like. And you can absolutely see who is talking to whom, in real life. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Hello Ben, but would the see with who you speak first? Wouldn't it be a hint for who the townfolk? Or is the feature disabled at that moment?
@@ente80 Iirc you can see who is talking to whom at any point, so if you pay attention you can tell who talks to the ST and in what order. However this usually isn't enough information to deduce teams from, as multiple can talk to the ST for legitimate or bluffing reasons, like shown in this very game
Vigormortis + "Dead" Harpy sounds potentially abusable. The Harpy being able to pick themself and a good character, and then cheering on the good player as good (and thus breaking madness) is impossible to stop as the players. But I guess the ST then just has to not kill the living player each day. It's a cool ability, but I wonder how many players would try and abuse it like that. Or even a Lleech game and make the Lleech mad someone is evil. Definitely not a role for new players or ST imo, but otherwise seems fun.
Honestly, I feel that's the opposite of abusable and a somewhat wasteful use of their ability. No decent ST in the world is going to just allow a dead Harpy to auto-kill goodies every day. The word 'might' in their ability text is there for this exact scenario. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower which is why I said potentially, as not all STs are as good as you. I'm sure a harpy who tried to pull it off once would quickly learn if doesn't work, and essentially outs themselves in that scenario.
@@kyleb8117 No, never to limit the options for players. Just to fix the glitch that can happen when Harpy can use its power while being dead, always choosing itself and abusing the mechanic by not being mad.
@@kyleb8117 Some STs might. There is lots of different STs in the world. Not everyone is at Ben level. If it is experimental character, better to to iterate it now than house rule it for next 300 years.
@@BrthrValta By that logic, we should change a lot of characters that have the potential to be abused through mechanics and those can actually be abused versus this one that ST can simply not allow it because they realize what's going on. You can't blame a bad ST, which is almost guaranteed to make the game run incorrectly in the first place, to force a tweak on a character that already works. I do love Ben, but he has gotten rules wrong or made what I consider really bad calls in the past. We're all human. Even Edd would mess up at some point. Nobody's perfect. The point however, is that the character is not inherently abused. It's only abused if two people, including the one running the game and supposed to be balancing it, are complacent in it. Compare this to something like a Butler purposefully cheating or town making a meta of everyone nominating on the first day to test for Witch. Those are abuses of a mechanic and they're not fun and simply shouldn't be done. They also don't mean the character is inherently needed to be fixed, but those are actual abuses of an ability and there's nothing that can be done about them other than ST asking people to not do it or letting them realize how unfun it really is.
I’m not really a fan of Cerenovus style “make a player play in a certain way under threat of death” of madness. I definitely prefer Pixie’s version of Madness.
I only recently started appreciating madness. People said that it comes with experience, but I still didn't like it even as I got good. I now see madness as a chance for a lot of fun. Mutant can claim minion. Cere mad can either try to give the right world with a restriction, create chaos, just break madness, and/or try to make the game more fun. Harpy mad seems like it could be fun too, I'd love to experience it. (You can try to sell a wrong worldview that still gives out your info, or a world view very similar to reality.)
So madness with no teeth. And here is the thing, its entirely up to the ST if they punish someone for not engaging with madness. Its a MAY die, so if they want to claim "I was made mad about so and so being evil" the ST could not kill them, because killing them confirms that a Harpy is in play and that might not be what the evil team wants.
@@TheLastSane1 Just not very fun for most players until you have a super advanced group who know how to interact with it well (spoilers, even if a couple are, most whole groups aren't). I actually think this is worse than Cere madness because killing two people is just too much in most good teams. You punish you AND someone else for your choice.
@@meathir4921 And autoconfirm them as very likely good. It is a high risk/reward for the harpy to make someone mad that their teammates are evil. So typically it will confirm 1 if not both players as good.
Ah, the “Laurie is my demon” character, excellent
Laurie is my demon.
Laurie is my demon
Laurie is my demon
Laurie is *my* demon.
Laurie is my demon
The evil team being very confused about the "witch" kill was very funny.
I'm still trying to work out what caused that. Wasn't the character that was used for that Goon Drunk? approx 1:10:00
@@chizmw no the harpy was drunk on a different day. Ben just didn’t remove the token. The goon only causes drunkenness for one day :))
@@Katz0801 ah, of course! I knew I'd misremembered something. tx
@@chizmw Roxxi was never mad that Mark was evil (Harpy choose Roxxi as pick1 and Mark as pick2) therefore Ben decided to kill both of them (Harpy's ability) when Mark nommed to seem it was a witch kill
I love it when Edd rolls out an "I did it 35 minutes ago" speech on the final day.
Whats funny is on night 2 when the philosopher chose cheff if you did wait for night order they would've learned a 1 instead of 0.
Was just about to say this lol
I feel like this would have been crucial info and absolved the Empath info on Bort and Milk. But we will never know.
@@Zilong09Or I tunnel in on either Malashaan or me being the Lleech host
@@bort9922 yeah that's what my friend and I figured in the end. It's hard to say when in your position at that time. I can't blame you. The script is kind of unforgiving in that sense because of the existence of the Lleech on it.
Doesn't Ben rule this as the chef starts the game knowing info, therefore the philosopher knows the info right away? 33:57
"Milk isn't clear. It's white." Absolutely hilarious comment from Ben. One of many perfectly timed and executed jokes Ben makes on the lifetime of this channel
I love the idea of the harpy
Madness always seemed so limiting in that it was only personal
Was the Harpy created cuz of Issac spamming to Jon: "Laurie is my demon."?
Oh this evil character looks super fun to play as/with/against. Love madness games!
Absolutely a great game. Pretending I’m hanging out with my friends (I’ve never met any of these people) on a holiday isn’t sad at all. It’s not like I’m very grateful for this video to be a distraction from that, but if I were, I’d want to truly empathize my gratitude for this video. Cheers!
Time for the NRB gang to have a go with the Harpy.
yes !! i hope it's in their next batch of episodes
Well, it is basically the "Laurie's my demon" character-
@@froakiejuju i hope issac, laurie and jon are together in that episode because you KNOW the harpys making it happen again
22:13 how my conversations with fellow townsfolk go
It was a fruitful conversation, if colourful. I told Milk I was the Philosopher who didn't feel like expanding beyond that. I also shared that Malashaan claimed minion to me earlier in the day. Milk told me he might survive execution, which was also true.
We had fun with it, but it wasn't a waste of time.
The game couldn't have gone better for the Harpy showcase video. What a cool new minion. Evil team played off of it very well.
"Milk isn't clear its white.." dammit Ben 🤣💀
Can Brain offer some alternative setup to the Grimoire reveal where it doesn't close everyone's cameras? There are now thousands of videos in the app that edge you for 2 hours only to completely blue-ball you at the reveal.
Or can Ben just reveal the truth and THEN go to a reveal instead?
I'll pass this request along to Bra1n. Thanks for the feedback. - Ben
Fun trivia thing (not game related but came up lol). Seersucker IS a real thing... it's just a striped clothing pattern and has nothing to do with hats. So close, Jojo, but just a little bit too far
It’s a kind of cotton fabric, pattern can vary
The minute seersucker got said, I couldn’t stop thinking about the movie _The Hudsucker Proxy_
Loving Milk leaning into the Lleech frame-world
Character idea: the Transporter. I have no idea if this should be a townsfolk, an outsider, a minion, or a traveller, but it is as follows: "once per game, (including the first) choose two characters. Anyone who would see or affect one instead does it to the other. You cannot pick yourself." So the transporter on night one picks person 1 and person 2. Someone gets a noble ping on person 1, but because of the transporter, they instead get it on person 2. The demon kills person 2, but because of the transporter, they instead kill person 1.
Could probably use tweaking, I'm not sure. I lean towards it being a townsfolk because of how much it could mess with evil. It seems really strong so I said once per game but it could be every night or some half measure like every odd night depending on what alignment it gets.
Full disclosure: this is inspired by the Transporter from Town of Salem. Could probably use with a new name as well but I can't come up with any lol.
I wouldn't make it a Traveller because people are going to ask them who they picked because everyone knows they're for sure in play and it also doesn't mess with the game as much as you'd want it to if everyone knows it's happening somewhere. Because of how likely it'll mess with evil team, I also wouldn't make it an Outsider. Probably not a Minion ability, because I'm not sure how often that'd help over just backfiring on them and/or confirming they're in play. Hard to say without playtesting. I think Minion and Townsfolk are both possible, maybe.
I'd definitely not make it every night or every other night. That's far too powerful. Maybe if it was an Amnesiac ability, since those need to be powerful. If you want to nerf it slightly, you can force them to use it first night by making it "On your first night, ..."
Also, if you do end up creating it, you'll want to say "player" not "character", based on how you described it. It'd probably be less interesting if it was character anyways since you don't know if they're in play. Something like "Once per game, at night, choose two players: any ability that would register with one instead registers with the other." That probably covers everything. (Someone seeing a player would because of their ability registering with that player, so it's redundant.)
Seems like a cool idea. I'm adding it to my list of homebrew ideas and crediting you on it for the design, even though it's technically a ToS role. 👍
@@kyleb8117 ah yeah, I should've said choose two players, that's what I meant anyways. Thanks, and I think you've done a lot better analysis on it than me hah. Also I've just noticed I said the demon killed first night, but oops, it was just for clarifying how it works anyways. Also, name ideas: Cartwright or Porter if Townsfolk, Portalist (Portallist?) or the Boggart if Minion.
@@vastowen4562 Big fan of all of those names, especially Boggart. I also think Transporter is fine. I was wracking my brain trying to help you think of ideas of a name, but man am I bad at naming things. lol
Town of salem looking ass
In regards to the tool being used to play the game, as a storyteller, would some functionality to click on a player and see what notes theyve written about in their world of how the game is going be helpful at all? Or would that be a bit too far from trying to simulate IRL play?
When the experimental characters are available for purchase to those who didn't make the kickstarter, will newer characters like the harpy, knight, and steward be included?
They're all part of the planned expansions. You can read about them in the back of the game's core rulebook. - Ben
@32:35 -- "Bort isn't clear -- Bort is white!"
Hypothetically, can a vigor killed harpy choose themselves to be mad a good player is demon to try and entice the ST to kill that player? Likely won't ever happen for a multitude of reasons. Just wonder if possible.
Mechanically that works, but if I were the ST they'd have to play up that they think the player is evil and then back down convincingly in the right moment (like when the person nominates, simulating witch, for example).
On the final day I'd be extremely hesitant to enforce that, on all other days it has a strong possibility of outing the Harpy and the demon type as Vigormortis and those risks balance things out.
An already openly evil, vigorkilled harpy would effectively turn into an immortal psychopath but the ST can just stop enforcing something that powerful when it's based in madness.
If that's a worry though, implementing a Vigor Harpy Jinx where the Harpy while vigorkilled can only choose themselves as the first player if the second player is also dead seems fine.
@@alchemicpink2392 Oh for sure, like I said I don't think it'd ever happen and the more I think about it the worse of an idea it is. Evil probably wouldn't want to do it eother as it would clearly signal who the Harpy is and what the demon is, which would close off so many worlds in an instant, assuming not near the end of the game. There is no good reason for it.
Technically yes, but i’m pretty sure that almost every storytellers will see it as cheating. Exactly like if the harpy selects the other minion and the demon (like here), but the minion decides to not follow the madness, i’m pretty confident that the ST won’t kill both
Samantha's harpied nomination of her demon day 1 going through and ending the game would have been fantastic.
What would happen if a leech chose a goon as their host?
Weird soldier question. Since they're safe from the demon, do they die when nominated in a riot game?
no. soldier doesn't die when nominated by riot
i'm afraid budweiser is gnat's piss
if you can pick dead players... and the harpy is vigor mortised and they are NOT allowed to pick themselves right? cause thats just a wacky interaction right?
If they could pick themselves they would literally get a free kill every day :/
It's only a 'might die' and no Storyteller with half a brain would allow that kill to go through. - Ben
i feel like this was an absolutely amazing politician game by milk here... too bad he was the sailor XD
What happens if a lleech selects Soldier N1?
It’s not an attack, it’s a setup feature. It drunks the soldier whose power wouldn’t be tested by a non suicidal lleech anyway. It would be a fun attack with a scarlet woman, I imagine.
If the harpy can make dead and evil players made they could just use it as an extra death each day.
Even nore crazy with a vigored harpy.
- I am mad that x is evil.
- oh x i dont think youre evil.
- x is dead
With good timing you fake a witch kill every day
Storyteller discretion would prevent this. There are zero stakes for them to commit and it incorporates an unfair advantage in that situation. My opinion on exactly why the wording is _might_ die, so the storyteller isn’t locked into being obligated to unfairly run through the game based on mechanics. I like boardgames that involve a referee as part of a gameplay (war games usually), but a storyteller isn’t a referee. They’re there to make tough calls and follow through on the fun world building, not punish people for participating with unfair mechanics. Not criticizing you for the question, it’s important to ask about that, but I figure “experimental” characters probably have a long history of playtesting. Hard to take back an official showcasing that would resort with such an open flaw.
I was in a Harpy game last week.
It’s a really bad role for bullies to get hold of.
It was not a fun experience.
Can I ask what happened? I’ve enjoyed a harpy game but I’m curious. Was it the harpy player or the ST who made it not enjoyable?
@@Katz0801 the short version?
I play on the ClockClock server at least once a week, and very regularly get exed day 1 (which is *hilarious*😑).
There’s another player (I’ll just call them “player A”) who often says “can we not kill Tam day 1 this time?”
Night 1, the harpy player makes player A mad that I’m evil, resulting in me being executed day one.
They then spent the rest of the game making random players mad that Player A is evil.
Neither I nor player A enjoyed that interaction.
@@tammyboy2084 Is always a shame if any player is not having fun... but that interaction does sound kinda funny
@@tammyboy2084 Oh no, someone who is using the rules of the game is now a bully because I don't know how to use social interaction to turn the game in my favor. Pout pout, cry cry. Grow up, get better, stop crying. Pile of human trash.
I have a lot of ideas for characters that I'd love to submit. Can I send them to someone at Pandemonium Institute? Thanks for your time!
Soldier is sober and healthy and cannot be killed by the Demon. But they still need to die in order the Lleech to die. It's actually a great pick for the Lleech, as it's undetectable. - Ben
With all the madness, drunkenness, poisoning, and sailor lying he's a leech for no reason, I have no idea how the good side can ever come to a divisive conclusion. Games ends with "idk let's just pick someone. he seems sus i guess." It's entertaining though.
There are scripts that are much more clear on information. And the savant can learn a lot of useful things if they survive longer.
This is also simply because the players know each other so well. They are more playful. They know when someone is being serious and will read it as such but honestly him saying he is the Lleech is probably what confirmed he was good to most of them.
Unfortunately, and maybe I'm saying this in the wrong area, I think this is a feature of Ben as the ST. He seems to genuinely believe that actively engineering a game every time until ultimately there is just a random guess as to which alive character is the demon is the ideal 'exciting' finish.
I don't know if somebody already asked this, but is it visible to everyone with whom you speaking? I mean in the chat rooms, are the members visible? Could player deduce the bad guys just by with whom Ben is speaking first?
Yes, absolutely. The app attempts to simulate what an in-person game would look like. And you can absolutely see who is talking to whom, in real life. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Hello Ben, but would the see with who you speak first? Wouldn't it be a hint for who the townfolk? Or is the feature disabled at that moment?
@@ente80 Iirc you can see who is talking to whom at any point, so if you pay attention you can tell who talks to the ST and in what order. However this usually isn't enough information to deduce teams from, as multiple can talk to the ST for legitimate or bluffing reasons, like shown in this very game
@@acap276 I meant in the beginning, when the ST tells the demon what his bluffs are, for example.
@@ente80 during the night no, it's not visible who the ST visits
Are you evil? Are you evil?
I need to stop watching Patters, I keep accidentally spoiling myself on the new character releases
Vigormortis + "Dead" Harpy sounds potentially abusable. The Harpy being able to pick themself and a good character, and then cheering on the good player as good (and thus breaking madness) is impossible to stop as the players. But I guess the ST then just has to not kill the living player each day. It's a cool ability, but I wonder how many players would try and abuse it like that. Or even a Lleech game and make the Lleech mad someone is evil. Definitely not a role for new players or ST imo, but otherwise seems fun.
Honestly, I feel that's the opposite of abusable and a somewhat wasteful use of their ability. No decent ST in the world is going to just allow a dead Harpy to auto-kill goodies every day. The word 'might' in their ability text is there for this exact scenario. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower which is why I said potentially, as not all STs are as good as you. I'm sure a harpy who tried to pull it off once would quickly learn if doesn't work, and essentially outs themselves in that scenario.
i made this character as a homebrew demon a while ago lmao, mine was broken and complicated tho
I believe you could sink the Vigor poison on the Soldier, just like sinking a kill on a dead player.
Change that Harpy can only choose living players, and never itself
Why? Why limit options of evil team? You're just saying they should make it easier to meta, which makes the character less interesting/fun.
@@kyleb8117 No, never to limit the options for players. Just to fix the glitch that can happen when Harpy can use its power while being dead, always choosing itself and abusing the mechanic by not being mad.
@@BrthrValta There's nothing to abuse. It's a might ability. ST won't allow it.
@@kyleb8117 Some STs might. There is lots of different STs in the world. Not everyone is at Ben level. If it is experimental character, better to to iterate it now than house rule it for next 300 years.
@@BrthrValta By that logic, we should change a lot of characters that have the potential to be abused through mechanics and those can actually be abused versus this one that ST can simply not allow it because they realize what's going on. You can't blame a bad ST, which is almost guaranteed to make the game run incorrectly in the first place, to force a tweak on a character that already works.
I do love Ben, but he has gotten rules wrong or made what I consider really bad calls in the past. We're all human. Even Edd would mess up at some point. Nobody's perfect. The point however, is that the character is not inherently abused. It's only abused if two people, including the one running the game and supposed to be balancing it, are complacent in it.
Compare this to something like a Butler purposefully cheating or town making a meta of everyone nominating on the first day to test for Witch. Those are abuses of a mechanic and they're not fun and simply shouldn't be done. They also don't mean the character is inherently needed to be fixed, but those are actual abuses of an ability and there's nothing that can be done about them other than ST asking people to not do it or letting them realize how unfun it really is.
I’m not really a fan of Cerenovus style “make a player play in a certain way under threat of death” of madness. I definitely prefer Pixie’s version of Madness.
I only recently started appreciating madness.
People said that it comes with experience, but I still didn't like it even as I got good.
I now see madness as a chance for a lot of fun.
Mutant can claim minion.
Cere mad can either try to give the right world with a restriction, create chaos, just break madness, and/or try to make the game more fun.
Harpy mad seems like it could be fun too, I'd love to experience it. (You can try to sell a wrong worldview that still gives out your info, or a world view very similar to reality.)
So madness with no teeth. And here is the thing, its entirely up to the ST if they punish someone for not engaging with madness. Its a MAY die, so if they want to claim "I was made mad about so and so being evil" the ST could not kill them, because killing them confirms that a Harpy is in play and that might not be what the evil team wants.
@@TheLastSane1 Just not very fun for most players until you have a super advanced group who know how to interact with it well (spoilers, even if a couple are, most whole groups aren't). I actually think this is worse than Cere madness because killing two people is just too much in most good teams. You punish you AND someone else for your choice.
@@meathir4921 And autoconfirm them as very likely good. It is a high risk/reward for the harpy to make someone mad that their teammates are evil. So typically it will confirm 1 if not both players as good.
@@TheLastSane1You just described all madness. It's always up to the ST.