The weakest color in commander gets its best card cut (I don’t even own Dockside Extortionist) Thassa’s oracle and Rhystic Study are fine… utterly ridiculous. I’m mad about Jeweled Lotus that ban is such a sucker punch. I just got my first one 3 weeks ago and haven’t even finished the deck!
@@darkinsanity98473 Agreed. Banning SOME of the fast mana is dumb. There's still PLEANTY of fast mana out there. Also red lost one of it's strongest cards and I think it's already the weakest color in commander. I dunno man. It's just lame. The Jeweled Lotus thing is such a slap in the face. They should have banned it much sooner. But hey the last of those sealed packs just left the WOTC warehouse so they made their money. Whatever. I see CEDH splitting off and becoming it's own thing.
Maybe expending a 100 bucks on a cardboard piece which value can dissapear due to the decision of a random comitee of guys wasnt a good idea. Call me crazy. But hey, better to learn a lesson at time than comitting an even worse mistake later on
@@eduardosanz9434 But that's just it. It's a casual format, played at varying power levels, yes even CEDH is played casually for fun. Bans are not needed, except for maybe when it's played at a tournament level which is TCEDH, but otherwise let people play what they want across all levels, that's a properly handled format like EDH. RC overstepped on Monday but before that they had the right idea for many years.
It is important to remember that the rules committee and WotC don’t work together that much, and the RC doesn’t take into account the monetary value of cards when they are banning things because that isn’t how you balance a format. If that was the case, the best way to keep a card legal would be to jack the price so it couldn’t be banned. I do agree that the RC could have better telegraphed this with something like a watchlist, but I don’t disagree with their decision overall. They have said repeatedly that they balance the game for the casual audience and these fast mana pieces create too many uneven game states.
I do think the other big point to note is while these discussions started a year ago within the RC, they may not have enaged with Wotc until later on. The affected sets would have been locked down and would have had little to zero change of being changed if Wotc was across these bannings. I do think alot of people are forgetting that wotc and the RC arnt joined at the hip, and its very difficult to pivot for large companies like wotc.
I just purchased a mana crypt because It was never even on the radar for a ban, especially after pushing it in recent sets. This is the biggest fu I've ever received lol
@@eduardosanz9434 it's still a good idea if people have fun by using more powerful cards in a casual format. Wouldn't say it's really any different from the more competitive ones if you're not playing for money
Ask yourself this: If they released Commander Masters 2 in the near future, containing reprints of Thassa's Oracle, Mana Vault, Rhystic Study, Chrome Mox, and Mox Opal, would you consider buying it? If the answer is no, then Wizards has a serious problem on their hands. People aren't stupid, and if you spit in their face and take them for a fool, they aren't gonna be keen on buying your product in the future. This decision will ripple through game stores and go down as a true business blunder if Wizards doesn't do something to restore consumer confidence. The banlist is a marketing tool afterall, and if it hurts the most passionate players of your game, things aren't gonna end well.
Nadu: I think nobody liked Nadu, even its pilots, so good ban and a message to WotC stop designing like this. Dockside Extortionist: I think they telegraphed this ban well enough. It was a time bomb. Jeweled Lotus: I don't think it deserved a ban with their reasoning. RC didn't like the card and I speculate this was a spite ban. Sheldon may have been a compromising voice in RC and without him, RC just chose this opportunity to ban the card. My problem with this ban is they should have made it more obvious and maybe constantly say this card is their number 1 target for ban. People made some fuss about this card during release, but after this long time people just got used to this card and it was mostly fine. They should have telegraphed this ban better. Mana Crypt: I think this one was the least telegraphed and probably the number 1 reason why people are piss off. They should at least communicate that all mana rocks are being in their watch list. This came as a complete surprise and their reasoning is quite bad. We can all agree such mana rocks are broken, but we are used to this at this point after years of playing with broken mana base and rocks. This type of ban just shows how out of touch RC is and how bad they are at balancing the game. It has been a while their banning reasoning was all over the place, but this is close to last straws and make people revolt/quit.
I honestly love the change. I want to slow edh games down and enjoy them and see what people have built. If a game ends turn 5 in standard, thats fine. But turn 6 commander wins never seem to let the game breathe.
I'm super happy about these bans. These cards were bad for the good of the format and I'm happy to take the financial hit for the game I love. In particular, jeweled lotus being printed in the first place is unforgivable.
I do want slower games, but I don’t play fast mana in my low-mid tier decks. The problem is at a game design level of newer cards. Hyper-focused designs, coupled with lower cmc across the board is quickening commander. When everyone’s commander is 2-3 mana and new cards are cheaper versions of old staples with upside/versatility, stuff gets crazy at turns 5-6 way more often now. I don’t want 2 hour games, but I miss the battlecruiser feeling.
the decision was great for anyone that wants more balanced games and bad for people who enjoy just winning out of luck. The problem with the bans was the surprise, if they said this was on their radar for the last 2 years everything would have been fine. CEDH is the biggest winner in all of this and people just don't have enough experience in other competitive formats to see that taking away enablers like fast mana makes the format less based on a lucky opening hand, making it more based on the player's skill and less in their luck, which should be what COMPETITIVE players want. Hope they continue to ban these types of cards in the future
Money doesn't matter to me either, i had 8 copies of paradox engine 4 of them in CEDH decks and i told my group "until they ban it im going to abuse it, because its busted" and i lost like 600 dollars my problem is consistency on the bans and the reasoning is also inconsistent
The way I choose to look at it is I disregard price. If these cards were jammed in every deck that could possibly run them, would this make commander games better or worse?
Im convinced that the reason the rules committee banned jewled lotos was because of Voja from murders at karlov Manor. Playing that card turn 2 is wild. You may as well shuffle your decks and play another game😮😮
structure is what makes games fun. Commander has an incredibly big communication and expectation problem, banning the most powerful cards in the format is completely reasonable to promote diversity in strategy and level the playing field. Insular communities of players that set their own rules aren't affected by this- they can play with whatever cards they want. But it does affect how the average player's experience goes, in a positive way. If you think that there can't still be massive power level differences between decks even if you ban the fastest mana in the format you're just not a good deck builder.
honestly only agree with the ban being a bad idea currently cause of what wizards literally did by pumping out the last of the packs and then letting ti drop...
everyone is looking right past this Nadu ban but I'm telling you it is the most important of all. Nadu has the most interesting back story and in that context it's the most egregious. The fact it's a card made for commander and redesigned for modern and somehow banned in both formats tells you there is something wrong with card design and testing. Mana crypt and Jeweled lotus are perfect cards that mechanically are simple and powerful and everyone understands that.
JL should be in every commander deck cEDH or EDH, this card should be as easy to get as sol ring, instead got banned... WoTC should reprint it in each commander set, so everyone can have the copies they need for all decks.
I also heard that there was a spike in sales before the announcement. so they let all their friends know about the up coming ban and they dumped them to get their money out of them.
I understand why people are mad. I just don't care. If you feel ripped off after buying premium products them maybe this will teach you to stop treating a card game like an investment opportunity.
The moral of the story is that if you're going to play the investment game with a TCG, you sure as shit better be diversifying your assets outside of cardboard. TCGs are a very fickle market, and the people who run and manage them are under absolutely NO obligation to make sure their players retain value on investment. The reserved list was just a way to gaslight their OG players into sticking with the game until it outgrew them, and it has at this point.
I'd encourage stores to enforce their own banlist tbh, I think that managing banlists for a casual format should be done in a small community setting. This allows for exceptions and discussion to happen, and I think that's the best way to do it from now on. I think the RC should be abolished, since they clearly don't weild their power in a way that won't delete significant financial value from every single store around the US.
Funny how people are complaining about "not being able to play with them anymore", completely ignoring rule 0. They just want the game to be a financial investment.
Wow just because you don't you don't see them in casual don't mean there aren't being use in casual, all it takes is one jackass to bring a deck made to crush everyone at the table, those people deserve to lose their money.
As I sit here, taking put all the proxies of it in my decks and be like "oooh what do I wanna put in here now?" That aside.....yes, wotc is scummy for KNOWING. The commander committee probably be like "why?"
thassa's oracle isn't a chase card and isn't 80+ euro's. But if is a card that make the format go fast also sol should be banned. Turn 0 gemstone carverns turn 2 land sol ring arcane Signet. Makes you have 6 mana turn 2 when you play another land. And yeah im taking about a merry xmas hand. But thats what the rc used for the banning of those 3 other cards aswell. And dockside does hardly anything in casual Unlikely in cedh. Stupid bans just more reason to play proxy for the expensive cards.
hey dude so you said "i dont care about the financial aspect of it at all" then proceeded to discuss the loss of value of the festival in a box for like a full minute as your first point??? im fine with the bans and the power gap from 0 to 1 is a chasm. you can do ungodly things with a mana crypt and a single land on turn one a rhystic study or two signets. (i pulled an LCI mana crypt and am fully understanding of the ban) As for dockside i have literally never seen somebody cast that card and not win if it resolves. it might just be the meta of my LGS but its 10x more powerful than a seething song or jeskas will (unless its a fringe spell copy deck or somebody has their whole library in their hand)
It baffles me that influencers, who are entitled to their opinions, are being allowed to dictate how people should play the game in their LGS. It's also concerning that a small group of individuals blindsided the Commander Advisory Group in the process.
The R.C's rules are not set in stone. It's just a group of people, nobody voted for them. As long as you're not sitting down with a stack of Pokemon cards and a parking ticket for a commander I'm fine with whatever. I'm guessing people are also free to form a cEDH rules committee . I think that's the best solution. Let the regular RC be the arbiter of casual commander since they obviously can't decide properly for cEDH.
Yeah, good question. Why the fuck would you spend that amount of money on a piece of cardboard. You are just sad to realize that, in fact, you shouldnt
Mana crypt was very iconic in my pod. Was the first one to get one throughing it in all my decks. Everyone was shocked when I first got it. Then one of my friends got one for his birthday and another bought one of the special art versions. One of my luckier friends was saving up for one. It showed us playing higher power was fun. We all naturally tho decided to take it out of lower power decks just cause it didn’t fit and was annoying in lower power. It actually got me to take out sol ring in those decks to. But our favorite decks guess what all have mana crypt. Mana crypt isn’t a problem for my playgroup at all. When we play against other lower power players we have a lower power deck to got to. I also build my koma deck(favorite) to function around mana crypt with artifact tutors and transmute cards so it’s like now I have to redesigned my whole deck.
Don’t ban thassas Oracle it’s not a problem in casual. Plus I have it as a wincon for a deck that draws itself. Thiers no infinites and i state clearly that’s how I win and people are fine with that because they just have to attack me before my deck gets to 0. 3-15 cards per turn
@@gathererofmagic5350 So you have no problem with a private company and/or a small group of people with insider information simply manipulating the secondary market at will and profiting off the changes ahead of time. Gotcha.
@@schorltourmaline4521 Because it high demand. People buy those mana crypts not because of the price, it because they can play with it in CEDH. It never broke a format. It never been a problem in CEDH. You don't normally see those copies in casual. Alot of people run those cards in correct table. Those recent banning was obviously a target at CEDH where NOBODY complained or even upset about seeing mana crypt, Jeweled Lotus, LED, Thessa's Oracle, powerful tutors, underworld bridge, bunch of degenerated cards because they ALSO run it in their deck and want to play fast game. The goal is simple, win as quicky as possible. Banning isn't the issues here. The issues is WHY is WotC knew about it for a year and STILL selling it knowing it going to get ban, never disclosed it to public and rip the carpet underneath CEDH players and say "Now you can't it!". This ploy they're doing, showed us how credible they are. They don't care about us. They just want our money. Some people buy it a few days before it get banned. Dockside and Nardu, I can see the target on their back. Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt had never seemed to be on radar, still being reprint and in high demand. R&D and WotC should be held responsible for this.
It's crazy how people click on a video, don't watch (apparently) a single second of it, and then leave some dumb comment that was addressed in the first 30 seconds lol. We didn't lose any money on it. We MADE money by buying them as they were being dumped. It's about duping their players and hurting trust in their business going forward - how about you response to them marketing both of these chase singles 2 weeks before the ban? how about slapping it on their most expensive box as a marketing tool/chase card? Do you think that's good for the TCG? No. It's not. This has added fuel to the "proxy everything" fire that has been hurting local game store's exclusively.
The rules comittee is not part of WotC. Don't be mad at the bans, be mad at WotC for powercreeping the products so hard for commander that they had to be banned or for reprinting mana crypt as a cash grab.
Hard disagree, I think its great. The only issue is they did it 4 years too late. Everybody thought these cards were problems enough to the point where people intentionally didnt play them in decks even if you owned them (I have 3 Crypts, none are in any deck) due to their obvious problematic power level. If anything they should be doing more bans. The ban list should always be targeted towards people that can't Rule 0 things in or out, in Untrusted games with random people.
EDH as a format is clearly not for you. The founder of the format has specifically stated that the ban list must be as small as possible. The entire point of EDH was to play with all of your cards. If you want casual cozy gameplay, might I suggest UNO. If you want heavy ban list, maybe you should try out standard or Alchemy. Both are easy to get into without having to worry about the secondary market.
@@dirtFOOTis actually the format isnt for you if you lack the impulse control and decency to not randomly decide to stomp everyone you play against because you hate other people. if you want hyper competitive high cost mtg i'd suggest modern, legacy and vintage.
@@Piss.Queen.Antichrist No, the people who lack impulse control are people like you. You don't play in cEDH pods, and yet here you are saying that cEDH players shouldn't be allowed to play the game the way they want to because YOU, in a completely separate playgroup don't like what you're seeing at another table.
@@veganpork7601 oh boy another idiot that cant read. lets spell it out. them laughing at people upset about not being able to play a card that many think deserved to get banned years ago and is now banned doesnt only come from hehehe get fucked. but now that people who have been abusing cards many deemed ban worthy can simply enjoy the crying over it. but the first comment against it said you only like the ban because you hate those who hate the ban. no dippy sticky they can like both. its not one or the other. its a byproduct of a ban they could very well agree with. But go off reading rainbow.
@@veganpork7601 No, it's literally not what he said. He didn't mention how he feels about the ban AT ALL, he simply said he found the situation that players are in to be hilarious.
On one hand, I think that the random explosive turn and subsequent win from a turn 1 or 2 sol ring coupled with the fact that it slots in every deck does warrant a ban, on the other hand, banning it would make nearly every precon illegal out of the box
@darkinsanity98473 the fact is, these cards were ultimately banned because enough people at their lgs and the like lack etiquette, there are plenty of stories of people going to a table saying "yeah my deck is a 6" then running these cards in their deck and curb stomping the table. Also, it's easier to rule 0 a banned card into a deck than it is to try to get others to agree to not run a card. Overall, I don't favor a sol ring ban because it's in every precon. Sure, most decks I own wouldn't miss it if I swapped them all for more synergistic ramp,
@@purpl3nurgle That's a people problem, or even a store pairing system problem. Banning isn't the answer. Disgusting how many people think that it is in a casually played format like EDH. But people will not want to play with you if you don't play with decks appropriate for the group.
Dont you think that the problem are not those 4-5 guys but the people buying things that can loose all their value due to the decision of 4 or 5 guys? If anyone had any of those cards for playing a casual game, they deserve what they got xD
I think one thing that people are getting completely wrong in their assessment, is the disconnect between the ideas of "We need bans for this" and "Commander is a casual format". I don't think anyone in a position of authority should create a commander banlist unless they are tailoring one for their own events. I don't think that WotC should treat this sort of thing with such an official capacity if they are considering Commander to be a casual format. Rather than a "Ban List" which hits everything, it should be "Guidelines for tournaments". I don't think commander "Bans" should be enforced outside of events by anything other than the preferences of local play groups. That's what it means to play "Casually", after all.
Do you think anything should be banned in EDH? You say you want to abide by yesterday's bannings? Black Lotus and the Moxen were already banned then, why do you accept them as being banned?
No, actually, I don't think anything should be "Banned" in Commander. I think that in a "Casual" format, it should be up to local playgroups how they want to treat their local communities. One already sits down at a table to play commander, and the first question is "Casual or Competitive?" The players are more than capable of policing their own local playgroups, and for the casual side of things I think it is unhealthy to have dictates from above on how a Corporation thinks people should play their game. If you want there to be bans, then it should be for Tournaments, and not for Commander "As a whole".
@@troublemaker9899 I would argue that people could already do that _with_ a banned list. A banned list just gives off a different starting point to the discussion, really. I would also argue that a banned list is very good for competitive play. I think CEDH with Channel and Trade Secrets would be pretty a pretty awful experience.
I understand why you are mad but the cards were bullsh1t and needed to go so you are just going to have to suck it up. Mana Crypt and Dockside Extortionist does not belong outside of cEDH. The fact that so many magic players ran these cards in their decks is why they needed to go. You brought this on yourself by forgetting that we are playing a casual format.
You're wrong. This is what's wrong with the format. Punish the long-term players people that literally made the format you play popularized and watch your local LGS where you play close their doors. Get your entitled opinions out of the format thanks. Don't ban stuff in competitive formats that cause destructive tendencies to the game as a hole. Stay in your casual group and stick to your 0 rule bans.
@@pushingpauper2086 actually it was judges and casual friend groups making decks with cards they had lying around that made edh a thing, not tournament try hards, stay in your competitive formats and try to rules lawyer the game out of playability there
The internet is divided, its long-term players that literally made the format what it is and LGS owners vs whiney brats who never worked for anything in their lives. Stick to causual and 0 rule your group instead of making the backbone of the game quit
@@dirtFOOTis oh you're literally just a broken person who doesnt understand that a casual format doesnt exist to feed your ego, again yall can stay in competitive formats if you wanna netdeck and spend 1000s of dollars to roll to see who goes first
@@dirtFOOTis sorry boss that you have to play magic on spell table because you dont have friends to play with. enjoy the 2020 magic experience you dork.
No it didn't. If it was boring for you, then don't play it. Why should the people who enjoyed it suffer because people who don't like it thought it was boring?
I have played competitive magic for almost 30 years. This ban is the worst I have seen in magic’s history. I feel bad for commander players. Run your event like you want! Good video.
There's way too many that are accepting of this ban or even worse, people who want more. This format is best with the way the RC had been handling things up until Monday. With a once in a blue moon ban like Nadu, but otherwise hands off. No bans are good bans. Terrible decision to switch direction. It's frustrating that so many don't see that that's what is best for EDH as a whole. I also don't care about the dollar value lost, I only care that they were banned and we can't "officially" play with them anymore.
Yeah, there might be grounds for a lawsuit here. This is an amazing video, you deserve way more subs. This didn't hurt me financially very much, but this really pisses me off. You described everything perfectly. WELL DONE!!!
@@gathererofmagic5350 Oh wow, thanks for the enlightening insight! So, you're saying that just because I don't own the intellectual property rights to a card or game, there's zero chance of legal action? That's adorable, but completely misguided. Let me break it down for you real quick: Ownership of rights isn't relevant to market manipulation or fraud: Players and collectors might not own the IP to the cards, but that doesn't mean WotC can exploit its market power however it pleases. If a company deliberately withholds or manipulates key information about its product (like an impending ban), that can open the door to legal issues like consumer fraud or unfair trade practices-especially if it causes financial harm to customers. Consumer protection laws exist for a reason. These aren't about owning the game or the rules; they're about making sure companies act fairly in the marketplace. If WotC had insider knowledge that would affect the value of products they're selling and failed to disclose it, that could absolutely be grounds for legal action under unfair or deceptive trade practices. You're not just "collecting cardboard"; you're engaging in a market where real money is involved, and that comes with certain legal responsibilities from the companies creating the product. So before dismissing this as "just cardboard," it might be helpful to think beyond the IP and realize money and transparency are the real issues here. Hope that clears up the "common sense" confusion!
@@gathererofmagic5350 Oh wow, thanks for the enlightening insight! So, you're saying that just because I don't own the intellectual property rights to a card or game, there's zero chance of legal action? That's adorable, but completely misguided. Let me break it down for you real quick: Ownership of rights isn't relevant to market manipulation or fraud: Players and collectors might not own the IP to the cards, but that doesn't mean WotC can exploit its market power however it pleases. If a company deliberately withholds or manipulates key information about its product (like an impending ban), that can open the door to legal issues like consumer fraud or unfair trade practices-especially if it causes financial harm to customers. Consumer protection laws exist for a reason. These aren't about owning the game or the rules; they're about making sure companies act fairly in the marketplace. If WotC had insider knowledge that would affect the value of products they're selling and failed to disclose it, that could absolutely be grounds for legal action under unfair or deceptive trade practices. You're not just "collecting cardboard"; you're engaging in a market where real money is involved, and that comes with certain legal responsibilities from the companies creating the product. So before dismissing this as "just cardboard," it might be helpful to think beyond the IP and realize money and transparency are the real issues here. Hope that clears up the "common sense" confusion!
@@gathererofmagic5350 Oh wow, thanks for the enlightening insight! So, you're saying that just because I don't own the intellectual property rights to a card or game, there's zero chance of legal action? That's adorable, but completely misguided. Let me break it down for you real quick: Ownership of rights isn't relevant to market manipulation or fraud: Players and collectors might not own the IP to the cards, but that doesn't mean WotC can exploit its market power however it pleases. If a company deliberately withholds or manipulates key information about its product (like an impending ban), that can open the door to legal issues like consumer fraud or unfair trade practices-especially if it causes financial harm to customers.
Consumer protection laws exist for a reason. These aren't about owning the game or the rules; they're about making sure companies act fairly in the marketplace. If WotC had insider knowledge that would affect the value of products they're selling and failed to disclose it, that could absolutely be grounds for legal action under unfair or deceptive trade practices.
The cards were OP, giving a universal advantage in any deck you put them in that priced out anyone who couldn't or wouldn't pay for them. You're mad because you got hit. Don't fall for insidious marketing practices, and stop giving WOTC excuses to make broken cards that ruin a format. Everyone should have rule zeroed these cards into oblivion the moment they were printed.
Overemotional reaction, like sorry they took away your broken toys, use your brain if you wanted the format to be truly competitive, should they unban the moxen in commander? theyre ALL worse than crypt for sure.
Look, if you don't want to play cEDH then stay at the Casual tables. Don't punish other people just because they are having fun with something you don't have fun with. YOU are capable of choosing your own play groups. Why do you need a corporation to do that for you?
@@troublemaker9899 I'm sorry you don't like competitive card games, if they printed a 5 mana black lotus the format wouldn't be more competitve or fair, the game has a resource system, those cards allow you to bypass that, its why lotus and crypt are banned in every other format goofy, sorry you lost money mana crypto bro, buy reserved list next time :D
Yep I was one of them they hit double Jeweled Lotus in one Pack when it got banned Thank You Commander RC a cough. Nice Job in not Banning Theassa Orcle and The ONE RING> GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD JOB not didn't ban the right cards. Your worried about fast mana I am worried about amazing crazy protection and card draw and a 2 card combo Theassa orcle bs
No bans are good bans, tired of seeing people say stuff like that should have been hit instead. EDH is best with how the RC was doing things before, hands off approach except for a once in a great while ban like Nadu.
Sol Ring will never be banned even if they wanted it to be. WotC will not allow it. If it is banned every precon is no longer play legal and they can’t have that.
also mana vault is a ritual, either you're outright lying because you took a financial hit(which sucks) or your card evaluation is dogshit and you've never played a truly competitve format, and to act like going fast is all that matters in cedh is fucking moronic, should they unban the power 9 flash and Pengine because they would "make the game faster?
a free two colorless is insane its should have been banned like 20 years ago. Jeweled lotus should not have been banned along with nadu and dockside, dockside punishes players for mana rocks so that was dumb.
Maybe you shouldnt have spent that amount of money on a piece of cardboard FOR A CASUAL FORMAT. Maybe you shouldnt spend that amount of money ON A PIECE OF CARDBOARD. Speculating have risks. The item itself has no value, now dont cry because people collectively agreed that, the card withouth a value, doesnt have value anymore
Except that it's NOT a strictly casual format. Whether you like it or not, cEDH is quite real and quite widely played, and punishing people for playing competitively is a bad move.
I *didn't* "spend that amount of money on a piece of cardboard for a casual format". I *pulled* my Crypt and Lotus. I also don't use them in any of my casual decks. I use them in my cEDH deck. My cEDH deck was the very first precon I ever bought and have slowly upgraded it over the years. I never even considered selling either Crypt of Lotus because I had the sentimentality of *pulling* them. I'm not upset over any financial losses because I never spent that money to buy them and never considered selling them. I'm upset because I expected to be able to play them for longer and seriously don't believe that they should be banned.
@@Bobqwt Oh no, I cant play my cards because 4 random dudes said so. I also dont believe that my 0 mana gain 2 mana should be banned :( Or that my 0 mana gain 3 mana should be banned either :(
@@troublemaker9899 Oh, so if it also is a competitive format, why do you complain about 3 obviously broken cards be banned? If it is competitive, money shouldnt be an issue since the integrity of the competition is what counts no? Because if so, any broken card wont be able to be banned since it will, by nature of supply and demand, be more expensive
The weakest color in commander gets its best card cut (I don’t even own Dockside Extortionist) Thassa’s oracle and Rhystic Study are fine… utterly ridiculous. I’m mad about Jeweled Lotus that ban is such a sucker punch. I just got my first one 3 weeks ago and haven’t even finished the deck!
No bans are good bans...except for a card like Nadu once in a great while.
@@darkinsanity98473 Agreed. Banning SOME of the fast mana is dumb. There's still PLEANTY of fast mana out there. Also red lost one of it's strongest cards and I think it's already the weakest color in commander. I dunno man. It's just lame. The Jeweled Lotus thing is such a slap in the face. They should have banned it much sooner. But hey the last of those sealed packs just left the WOTC warehouse so they made their money. Whatever. I see CEDH splitting off and becoming it's own thing.
Maybe expending a 100 bucks on a cardboard piece which value can dissapear due to the decision of a random comitee of guys wasnt a good idea. Call me crazy.
But hey, better to learn a lesson at time than comitting an even worse mistake later on
@@darkinsanity98473 Let a meta rot and die because people decided to pay 100 bucks for a piece of cardboard in a casual format xD
@@eduardosanz9434 But that's just it. It's a casual format, played at varying power levels, yes even CEDH is played casually for fun. Bans are not needed, except for maybe when it's played at a tournament level which is TCEDH, but otherwise let people play what they want across all levels, that's a properly handled format like EDH. RC overstepped on Monday but before that they had the right idea for many years.
It is important to remember that the rules committee and WotC don’t work together that much, and the RC doesn’t take into account the monetary value of cards when they are banning things because that isn’t how you balance a format. If that was the case, the best way to keep a card legal would be to jack the price so it couldn’t be banned. I do agree that the RC could have better telegraphed this with something like a watchlist, but I don’t disagree with their decision overall. They have said repeatedly that they balance the game for the casual audience and these fast mana pieces create too many uneven game states.
I do think the other big point to note is while these discussions started a year ago within the RC, they may not have enaged with Wotc until later on. The affected sets would have been locked down and would have had little to zero change of being changed if Wotc was across these bannings.
I do think alot of people are forgetting that wotc and the RC arnt joined at the hip, and its very difficult to pivot for large companies like wotc.
I just purchased a mana crypt because It was never even on the radar for a ban, especially after pushing it in recent sets. This is the biggest fu I've ever received lol
If things are on a "radar for a ban" isnt that just considered insider trading?
Hey, maybe expending a 100 bucks on a piece of cardboard for a casual format wasnt a good idea after all!
@@eduardosanz9434 you do know that people like to play high power decks casually right?
@@eduardosanz9434 Why are you getting joy from it? You reek of spite and hate.
@@eduardosanz9434 it's still a good idea if people have fun by using more powerful cards in a casual format. Wouldn't say it's really any different from the more competitive ones if you're not playing for money
Ask yourself this: If they released Commander Masters 2 in the near future, containing reprints of Thassa's Oracle, Mana Vault, Rhystic Study, Chrome Mox, and Mox Opal, would you consider buying it? If the answer is no, then Wizards has a serious problem on their hands. People aren't stupid, and if you spit in their face and take them for a fool, they aren't gonna be keen on buying your product in the future. This decision will ripple through game stores and go down as a true business blunder if Wizards doesn't do something to restore consumer confidence. The banlist is a marketing tool afterall, and if it hurts the most passionate players of your game, things aren't gonna end well.
Do you really think that the casual players are going to stop buying packs? I doubt it
Nadu: I think nobody liked Nadu, even its pilots, so good ban and a message to WotC stop designing like this.
Dockside Extortionist: I think they telegraphed this ban well enough. It was a time bomb.
Jeweled Lotus: I don't think it deserved a ban with their reasoning. RC didn't like the card and I speculate this was a spite ban. Sheldon may have been a compromising voice in RC and without him, RC just chose this opportunity to ban the card. My problem with this ban is they should have made it more obvious and maybe constantly say this card is their number 1 target for ban. People made some fuss about this card during release, but after this long time people just got used to this card and it was mostly fine. They should have telegraphed this ban better.
Mana Crypt: I think this one was the least telegraphed and probably the number 1 reason why people are piss off. They should at least communicate that all mana rocks are being in their watch list. This came as a complete surprise and their reasoning is quite bad. We can all agree such mana rocks are broken, but we are used to this at this point after years of playing with broken mana base and rocks. This type of ban just shows how out of touch RC is and how bad they are at balancing the game. It has been a while their banning reasoning was all over the place, but this is close to last straws and make people revolt/quit.
I honestly love the change. I want to slow edh games down and enjoy them and see what people have built.
If a game ends turn 5 in standard, thats fine. But turn 6 commander wins never seem to let the game breathe.
I'm super happy about these bans. These cards were bad for the good of the format and I'm happy to take the financial hit for the game I love. In particular, jeweled lotus being printed in the first place is unforgivable.
I do want slower games, but I don’t play fast mana in my low-mid tier decks. The problem is at a game design level of newer cards. Hyper-focused designs, coupled with lower cmc across the board is quickening commander. When everyone’s commander is 2-3 mana and new cards are cheaper versions of old staples with upside/versatility, stuff gets crazy at turns 5-6 way more often now. I don’t want 2 hour games, but I miss the battlecruiser feeling.
the decision was great for anyone that wants more balanced games and bad for people who enjoy just winning out of luck. The problem with the bans was the surprise, if they said this was on their radar for the last 2 years everything would have been fine. CEDH is the biggest winner in all of this and people just don't have enough experience in other competitive formats to see that taking away enablers like fast mana makes the format less based on a lucky opening hand, making it more based on the player's skill and less in their luck, which should be what COMPETITIVE players want. Hope they continue to ban these types of cards in the future
Money doesn't matter to me either, i had 8 copies of paradox engine 4 of them in CEDH decks and i told my group "until they ban it im going to abuse it, because its busted" and i lost like 600 dollars my problem is consistency on the bans and the reasoning is also inconsistent
We lost our cards because of the poors…
The way I choose to look at it is I disregard price. If these cards were jammed in every deck that could possibly run them, would this make commander games better or worse?
Im convinced that the reason the rules committee banned jewled lotos was because of Voja from murders at karlov Manor. Playing that card turn 2 is wild. You may as well shuffle your decks and play another game😮😮
structure is what makes games fun. Commander has an incredibly big communication and expectation problem, banning the most powerful cards in the format is completely reasonable to promote diversity in strategy and level the playing field. Insular communities of players that set their own rules aren't affected by this- they can play with whatever cards they want. But it does affect how the average player's experience goes, in a positive way.
If you think that there can't still be massive power level differences between decks even if you ban the fastest mana in the format you're just not a good deck builder.
honestly only agree with the ban being a bad idea currently cause of what wizards literally did by pumping out the last of the packs and then letting ti drop...
otherwise crypt and dockside needed to go
everyone is looking right past this Nadu ban but I'm telling you it is the most important of all. Nadu has the most interesting back story and in that context it's the most egregious. The fact it's a card made for commander and redesigned for modern and somehow banned in both formats tells you there is something wrong with card design and testing. Mana crypt and Jeweled lotus are perfect cards that mechanically are simple and powerful and everyone understands that.
JL should be in every commander deck cEDH or EDH, this card should be as easy to get as sol ring, instead got banned... WoTC should reprint it in each commander set, so everyone can have the copies they need for all decks.
They should have banned Sol Ring, because it is in every Wotc Precon produces, they did not
I say unban them all! Casual players will sort themselves out.
Amen 😂
I also heard that there was a spike in sales before the announcement. so they let all their friends know about the up coming ban and they dumped them to get their money out of them.
I understand why people are mad. I just don't care. If you feel ripped off after buying premium products them maybe this will teach you to stop treating a card game like an investment opportunity.
The moral of the story is that if you're going to play the investment game with a TCG, you sure as shit better be diversifying your assets outside of cardboard. TCGs are a very fickle market, and the people who run and manage them are under absolutely NO obligation to make sure their players retain value on investment. The reserved list was just a way to gaslight their OG players into sticking with the game until it outgrew them, and it has at this point.
@@DarkAuraLord my boy here spitting straight facts 🔥
You all keep saying investment. It’s not people investing, it’s people who have a few copies of the cards.
@@Slim3398 Agreed. And they still have these cards post-ban; so there's nothing to cry about imo.
Seeing the small amount of damage you get from crypt blasting you two land drops ahead of curve as a downside is laughable
I'd encourage stores to enforce their own banlist tbh, I think that managing banlists for a casual format should be done in a small community setting. This allows for exceptions and discussion to happen, and I think that's the best way to do it from now on. I think the RC should be abolished, since they clearly don't weild their power in a way that won't delete significant financial value from every single store around the US.
They use rule 0 as a defense and im like yah, rule fucking 0. These cards should have not been banned.
I agree they shouldn't have been banned, but honestly they probably shouldn't have been printed in the first place (or banned long ago.)
Funny how people are complaining about "not being able to play with them anymore", completely ignoring rule 0. They just want the game to be a financial investment.
The same argument can be used against the cards being banned at all.
Just rule zero them out, no need for a ban.
I do not see how people are not realizing that WoTC are making bad choices that prior games that they surpassed made, which ended those games. Smh.
Wow just because you don't you don't see them in casual don't mean there aren't being use in casual, all it takes is one jackass to bring a deck made to crush everyone at the table, those people deserve to lose their money.
That person would never be invited back to the pod. That's the beauty of commander.
You cant tell me you were really surprised for the dockside ban, thats been on the radar for a while.
As I sit here, taking put all the proxies of it in my decks and be like "oooh what do I wanna put in here now?"
That aside.....yes, wotc is scummy for KNOWING. The commander committee probably be like "why?"
thassa's oracle isn't a chase card and isn't 80+ euro's. But if is a card that make the format go fast also sol should be banned. Turn 0 gemstone carverns turn 2 land sol ring arcane Signet. Makes you have 6 mana turn 2 when you play another land. And yeah im taking about a merry xmas hand. But thats what the rc used for the banning of those 3 other cards aswell. And dockside does hardly anything in casual Unlikely in cedh. Stupid bans just more reason to play proxy for the expensive cards.
hey dude so you said "i dont care about the financial aspect of it at all" then proceeded to discuss the loss of value of the festival in a box for like a full minute as your first point??? im fine with the bans and the power gap from 0 to 1 is a chasm. you can do ungodly things with a mana crypt and a single land on turn one a rhystic study or two signets. (i pulled an LCI mana crypt and am fully understanding of the ban) As for dockside i have literally never seen somebody cast that card and not win if it resolves. it might just be the meta of my LGS but its 10x more powerful than a seething song or jeskas will (unless its a fringe spell copy deck or somebody has their whole library in their hand)
It baffles me that influencers, who are entitled to their opinions, are being allowed to dictate how people should play the game in their LGS. It's also concerning that a small group of individuals blindsided the Commander Advisory Group in the process.
The R.C's rules are not set in stone. It's just a group of people, nobody voted for them. As long as you're not sitting down with a stack of Pokemon cards and a parking ticket for a commander I'm fine with whatever. I'm guessing people are also free to form a cEDH rules committee . I think that's the best solution. Let the regular RC be the arbiter of casual commander since they obviously can't decide properly for cEDH.
Really hoping we see the formation of a solid cEDH RC too. That'd be great for the format.
Where are you based out of?
How can we trust future “powerful chase” cards? Why buy them with the fear of it being banned once wotc sells out of the product.
Yeah, good question. Why the fuck would you spend that amount of money on a piece of cardboard. You are just sad to realize that, in fact, you shouldnt
Mana crypt was very iconic in my pod. Was the first one to get one throughing it in all my decks. Everyone was shocked when I first got it. Then one of my friends got one for his birthday and another bought one of the special art versions. One of my luckier friends was saving up for one. It showed us playing higher power was fun. We all naturally tho decided to take it out of lower power decks just cause it didn’t fit and was annoying in lower power. It actually got me to take out sol ring in those decks to. But our favorite decks guess what all have mana crypt. Mana crypt isn’t a problem for my playgroup at all. When we play against other lower power players we have a lower power deck to got to. I also build my koma deck(favorite) to function around mana crypt with artifact tutors and transmute cards so it’s like now I have to redesigned my whole deck.
Don’t ban thassas Oracle it’s not a problem in casual. Plus I have it as a wincon for a deck that draws itself. Thiers no infinites and i state clearly that’s how I win and people are fine with that because they just have to attack me before my deck gets to 0. 3-15 cards per turn
They wouldn't stop bringing their competitive sh*t to casual pods. Would. Not. Stop. So the RC took away some of their toys. Boo hoo.
Rule zero, or get used to it bozo
☝️🙃
@Seority : not anymore.
So well said. Most of everyone I know and play with feels the same.
I for one will not miss born again black lotus, the toxic goblin, strictly better sol ring, or the mistake. The format is better without them.
I hate the bans. They were targeted at value.
Cry about it. If you over paid for a price of cardboard that on you not WotC
And why do these cards have such high value? It couldn't be because they were busted, could it?
@@gathererofmagic5350 So you have no problem with a private company and/or a small group of people with insider information simply manipulating the secondary market at will and profiting off the changes ahead of time. Gotcha.
@@schorltourmaline4521 Because it high demand. People buy those mana crypts not because of the price, it because they can play with it in CEDH. It never broke a format. It never been a problem in CEDH. You don't normally see those copies in casual. Alot of people run those cards in correct table. Those recent banning was obviously a target at CEDH where NOBODY complained or even upset about seeing mana crypt, Jeweled Lotus, LED, Thessa's Oracle, powerful tutors, underworld bridge, bunch of degenerated cards because they ALSO run it in their deck and want to play fast game. The goal is simple, win as quicky as possible. Banning isn't the issues here. The issues is WHY is WotC knew about it for a year and STILL selling it knowing it going to get ban, never disclosed it to public and rip the carpet underneath CEDH players and say "Now you can't it!". This ploy they're doing, showed us how credible they are. They don't care about us. They just want our money. Some people buy it a few days before it get banned. Dockside and Nardu, I can see the target on their back. Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt had never seemed to be on radar, still being reprint and in high demand. R&D and WotC should be held responsible for this.
Good bans
He is wrong just mad he lost money.
It's crazy how people click on a video, don't watch (apparently) a single second of it, and then leave some dumb comment that was addressed in the first 30 seconds lol. We didn't lose any money on it. We MADE money by buying them as they were being dumped. It's about duping their players and hurting trust in their business going forward - how about you response to them marketing both of these chase singles 2 weeks before the ban? how about slapping it on their most expensive box as a marketing tool/chase card? Do you think that's good for the TCG? No. It's not. This has added fuel to the "proxy everything" fire that has been hurting local game store's exclusively.
The rules comittee is not part of WotC. Don't be mad at the bans, be mad at WotC for powercreeping the products so hard for commander that they had to be banned or for reprinting mana crypt as a cash grab.
Two things can be true at the same time.
I'm fine being mad at both 👍
Hard disagree, I think its great. The only issue is they did it 4 years too late. Everybody thought these cards were problems enough to the point where people intentionally didnt play them in decks even if you owned them (I have 3 Crypts, none are in any deck) due to their obvious problematic power level. If anything they should be doing more bans. The ban list should always be targeted towards people that can't Rule 0 things in or out, in Untrusted games with random people.
EDH as a format is clearly not for you. The founder of the format has specifically stated that the ban list must be as small as possible. The entire point of EDH was to play with all of your cards. If you want casual cozy gameplay, might I suggest UNO. If you want heavy ban list, maybe you should try out standard or Alchemy. Both are easy to get into without having to worry about the secondary market.
@@dirtFOOTis Damn, a ban in 3 years and yall cry xD
@@eduardosanz9434 I'm not sure what your definition of crying is little kid haha. But have a nice day lol
@@dirtFOOTis actually the format isnt for you if you lack the impulse control and decency to not randomly decide to stomp everyone you play against because you hate other people. if you want hyper competitive high cost mtg i'd suggest modern, legacy and vintage.
@@Piss.Queen.Antichrist No, the people who lack impulse control are people like you. You don't play in cEDH pods, and yet here you are saying that cEDH players shouldn't be allowed to play the game the way they want to because YOU, in a completely separate playgroup don't like what you're seeing at another table.
MTG players getting angry they can’t sack anyone with Jeweled Lotus in a highlander 100 card format is hilarious to me.
So you admit that your love for the bans are simply from a place of hate for other people.
@@troublemaker9899 not at all what they said. need glasses bro?
@@vivianvicious that's literally exactly what he said lmao curb your condescension
@@veganpork7601 oh boy another idiot that cant read. lets spell it out. them laughing at people upset about not being able to play a card that many think deserved to get banned years ago and is now banned doesnt only come from hehehe get fucked. but now that people who have been abusing cards many deemed ban worthy can simply enjoy the crying over it. but the first comment against it said you only like the ban because you hate those who hate the ban. no dippy sticky they can like both. its not one or the other. its a byproduct of a ban they could very well agree with. But go off reading rainbow.
@@veganpork7601 No, it's literally not what he said. He didn't mention how he feels about the ban AT ALL, he simply said he found the situation that players are in to be hilarious.
I'm down for a sol ring ban
On one hand, I think that the random explosive turn and subsequent win from a turn 1 or 2 sol ring coupled with the fact that it slots in every deck does warrant a ban, on the other hand, banning it would make nearly every precon illegal out of the box
Terrible opinion, you don't have to play with it but don't try to take it away from everyone else.
@darkinsanity98473 the fact is, these cards were ultimately banned because enough people at their lgs and the like lack etiquette, there are plenty of stories of people going to a table saying "yeah my deck is a 6" then running these cards in their deck and curb stomping the table. Also, it's easier to rule 0 a banned card into a deck than it is to try to get others to agree to not run a card. Overall, I don't favor a sol ring ban because it's in every precon. Sure, most decks I own wouldn't miss it if I swapped them all for more synergistic ramp,
@@purpl3nurgle That's a people problem, or even a store pairing system problem. Banning isn't the answer. Disgusting how many people think that it is in a casually played format like EDH. But people will not want to play with you if you don't play with decks appropriate for the group.
Your stupid.
4-5 people making decisions that affect millions of people in both enjoyable gameplay and in a Massive financial way is ridiculous. F the RC!!!!
Dont you think that the problem are not those 4-5 guys but the people buying things that can loose all their value due to the decision of 4 or 5 guys?
If anyone had any of those cards for playing a casual game, they deserve what they got xD
i mean you losers often were one person making a decision that impacted enjoyability for an entire play group
I think one thing that people are getting completely wrong in their assessment, is the disconnect between the ideas of "We need bans for this" and "Commander is a casual format".
I don't think anyone in a position of authority should create a commander banlist unless they are tailoring one for their own events. I don't think that WotC should treat this sort of thing with such an official capacity if they are considering Commander to be a casual format. Rather than a "Ban List" which hits everything, it should be "Guidelines for tournaments".
I don't think commander "Bans" should be enforced outside of events by anything other than the preferences of local play groups. That's what it means to play "Casually", after all.
I feel for you Alan. Disastrous decision.
Do you think anything should be banned in EDH?
You say you want to abide by yesterday's bannings? Black Lotus and the Moxen were already banned then, why do you accept them as being banned?
No, actually, I don't think anything should be "Banned" in Commander. I think that in a "Casual" format, it should be up to local playgroups how they want to treat their local communities. One already sits down at a table to play commander, and the first question is "Casual or Competitive?" The players are more than capable of policing their own local playgroups, and for the casual side of things I think it is unhealthy to have dictates from above on how a Corporation thinks people should play their game.
If you want there to be bans, then it should be for Tournaments, and not for Commander "As a whole".
@@troublemaker9899 I would argue that people could already do that _with_ a banned list.
A banned list just gives off a different starting point to the discussion, really.
I would also argue that a banned list is very good for competitive play. I think CEDH with Channel and Trade Secrets would be pretty a pretty awful experience.
I understand why you are mad but the cards were bullsh1t and needed to go so you are just going to have to suck it up. Mana Crypt and Dockside Extortionist does not belong outside of cEDH. The fact that so many magic players ran these cards in their decks is why they needed to go. You brought this on yourself by forgetting that we are playing a casual format.
You're wrong. This is what's wrong with the format. Punish the long-term players people that literally made the format you play popularized and watch your local LGS where you play close their doors. Get your entitled opinions out of the format thanks. Don't ban stuff in competitive formats that cause destructive tendencies to the game as a hole. Stay in your casual group and stick to your 0 rule bans.
@@pushingpauper2086 actually it was judges and casual friend groups making decks with cards they had lying around that made edh a thing, not tournament try hards, stay in your competitive formats and try to rules lawyer the game out of playability there
The internet is divided, its long-term players that literally made the format what it is and LGS owners vs whiney brats who never worked for anything in their lives. Stick to causual and 0 rule your group instead of making the backbone of the game quit
cedh isnt the backbone but cope more.
@@vivianvicious its comments like yours that has made the last couple days of pubstomping casuals like you on spelltable soooo much fun. 😊
Long term players "aka" sunken cost falacy players that need to justify having spent 100 bucks over a piece of cardboard for a casual format.
@@dirtFOOTis oh you're literally just a broken person who doesnt understand that a casual format doesnt exist to feed your ego, again yall can stay in competitive formats if you wanna netdeck and spend 1000s of dollars to roll to see who goes first
@@dirtFOOTis sorry boss that you have to play magic on spell table because you dont have friends to play with. enjoy the 2020 magic experience you dork.
Nah it's fine Cedh needed to slow down it wqs so boring I'm glade for these changes . Pulled all mine from boosters so bo money lost for me really.
No it didn't. If it was boring for you, then don't play it. Why should the people who enjoyed it suffer because people who don't like it thought it was boring?
I have played competitive magic for almost 30 years. This ban is the worst I have seen in magic’s history. I feel bad for commander players. Run your event like you want! Good video.
There's way too many that are accepting of this ban or even worse, people who want more. This format is best with the way the RC had been handling things up until Monday. With a once in a blue moon ban like Nadu, but otherwise hands off. No bans are good bans. Terrible decision to switch direction. It's frustrating that so many don't see that that's what is best for EDH as a whole. I also don't care about the dollar value lost, I only care that they were banned and we can't "officially" play with them anymore.
Yeah, there might be grounds for a lawsuit here. This is an amazing video, you deserve way more subs. This didn't hurt me financially very much, but this really pisses me off. You described everything perfectly. WELL DONE!!!
Zero chance of a lawsuit you don't own the rights to the card or the rules you are just a player who collects cardboard use some common sense.
@@gathererofmagic5350 Oh wow, thanks for the enlightening insight! So, you're saying that just because I don't own the intellectual property rights to a card or game, there's zero chance of legal action? That's adorable, but completely misguided. Let me break it down for you real quick:
Ownership of rights isn't relevant to market manipulation or fraud: Players and collectors might not own the IP to the cards, but that doesn't mean WotC can exploit its market power however it pleases. If a company deliberately withholds or manipulates key information about its product (like an impending ban), that can open the door to legal issues like consumer fraud or unfair trade practices-especially if it causes financial harm to customers.
Consumer protection laws exist for a reason. These aren't about owning the game or the rules; they're about making sure companies act fairly in the marketplace. If WotC had insider knowledge that would affect the value of products they're selling and failed to disclose it, that could absolutely be grounds for legal action under unfair or deceptive trade practices.
You're not just "collecting cardboard"; you're engaging in a market where real money is involved, and that comes with certain legal responsibilities from the companies creating the product. So before dismissing this as "just cardboard," it might be helpful to think beyond the IP and realize money and transparency are the real issues here.
Hope that clears up the "common sense" confusion!
@@gathererofmagic5350 Oh wow, thanks for the enlightening insight! So, you're saying that just because I don't own the intellectual property rights to a card or game, there's zero chance of legal action? That's adorable, but completely misguided. Let me break it down for you real quick:
Ownership of rights isn't relevant to market manipulation or fraud: Players and collectors might not own the IP to the cards, but that doesn't mean WotC can exploit its market power however it pleases. If a company deliberately withholds or manipulates key information about its product (like an impending ban), that can open the door to legal issues like consumer fraud or unfair trade practices-especially if it causes financial harm to customers.
Consumer protection laws exist for a reason. These aren't about owning the game or the rules; they're about making sure companies act fairly in the marketplace. If WotC had insider knowledge that would affect the value of products they're selling and failed to disclose it, that could absolutely be grounds for legal action under unfair or deceptive trade practices.
You're not just "collecting cardboard"; you're engaging in a market where real money is involved, and that comes with certain legal responsibilities from the companies creating the product. So before dismissing this as "just cardboard," it might be helpful to think beyond the IP and realize money and transparency are the real issues here.
Hope that clears up the "common sense" confusion!
@@gathererofmagic5350 Oh wow, thanks for the enlightening insight! So, you're saying that just because I don't own the intellectual property rights to a card or game, there's zero chance of legal action? That's adorable, but completely misguided. Let me break it down for you real quick:
Ownership of rights isn't relevant to market manipulation or fraud: Players and collectors might not own the IP to the cards, but that doesn't mean WotC can exploit its market power however it pleases. If a company deliberately withholds or manipulates key information about its product (like an impending ban), that can open the door to legal issues like consumer fraud or unfair trade practices-especially if it causes financial harm to customers.
Consumer protection laws exist for a reason. These aren't about owning the game or the rules; they're about making sure companies act fairly in the marketplace. If WotC had insider knowledge that would affect the value of products they're selling and failed to disclose it, that could absolutely be grounds for legal action under unfair or deceptive trade practices.
The cards were OP, giving a universal advantage in any deck you put them in that priced out anyone who couldn't or wouldn't pay for them. You're mad because you got hit. Don't fall for insidious marketing practices, and stop giving WOTC excuses to make broken cards that ruin a format. Everyone should have rule zeroed these cards into oblivion the moment they were printed.
Overemotional reaction, like sorry they took away your broken toys, use your brain if you wanted the format to be truly competitive, should they unban the moxen in commander? theyre ALL worse than crypt for sure.
Look, if you don't want to play cEDH then stay at the Casual tables. Don't punish other people just because they are having fun with something you don't have fun with. YOU are capable of choosing your own play groups. Why do you need a corporation to do that for you?
@@troublemaker9899 I'm sorry you don't like competitive card games, if they printed a 5 mana black lotus the format wouldn't be more competitve or fair, the game has a resource system, those cards allow you to bypass that, its why lotus and crypt are banned in every other format goofy, sorry you lost money mana crypto bro, buy reserved list next time :D
Yep I was one of them they hit double Jeweled Lotus in one Pack when it got banned Thank You Commander RC a cough. Nice Job in not Banning Theassa Orcle and The ONE RING> GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD JOB not didn't ban the right cards. Your worried about fast mana I am worried about amazing crazy protection and card draw and a 2 card combo Theassa orcle bs
No bans are good bans, tired of seeing people say stuff like that should have been hit instead. EDH is best with how the RC was doing things before, hands off approach except for a once in a great while ban like Nadu.
Sol Ring will never be banned even if they wanted it to be. WotC will not allow it. If it is banned every precon is no longer play legal and they can’t have that.
also mana vault is a ritual, either you're outright lying because you took a financial hit(which sucks) or your card evaluation is dogshit and you've never played a truly competitve format, and to act like going fast is all that matters in cedh is fucking moronic, should they unban the power 9 flash and Pengine because they would "make the game faster?
CAG, aka CCP.
a free two colorless is insane its should have been banned like 20 years ago. Jeweled lotus should not have been banned along with nadu and dockside, dockside punishes players for mana rocks so that was dumb.
Maybe you shouldnt have spent that amount of money on a piece of cardboard FOR A CASUAL FORMAT.
Maybe you shouldnt spend that amount of money ON A PIECE OF CARDBOARD.
Speculating have risks. The item itself has no value, now dont cry because people collectively agreed that, the card withouth a value, doesnt have value anymore
Except that it's NOT a strictly casual format. Whether you like it or not, cEDH is quite real and quite widely played, and punishing people for playing competitively is a bad move.
I *didn't* "spend that amount of money on a piece of cardboard for a casual format". I *pulled* my Crypt and Lotus. I also don't use them in any of my casual decks. I use them in my cEDH deck. My cEDH deck was the very first precon I ever bought and have slowly upgraded it over the years. I never even considered selling either Crypt of Lotus because I had the sentimentality of *pulling* them. I'm not upset over any financial losses because I never spent that money to buy them and never considered selling them. I'm upset because I expected to be able to play them for longer and seriously don't believe that they should be banned.
@@Bobqwt Oh no, I cant play my cards because 4 random dudes said so. I also dont believe that my 0 mana gain 2 mana should be banned :( Or that my 0 mana gain 3 mana should be banned either :(
@@troublemaker9899 Oh, so if it also is a competitive format, why do you complain about 3 obviously broken cards be banned? If it is competitive, money shouldnt be an issue since the integrity of the competition is what counts no? Because if so, any broken card wont be able to be banned since it will, by nature of supply and demand, be more expensive
But what if my idea of fun is playing a fast game?
exactly. thank you. someone speaking sense
I’m not buying any more product. Spent maybe $1k a set. Printer go brrrr.