Track testing the 6.4/392 Mopar cold air intake...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- This is where the rubber meets the track, and I track test the MOPAR cold air intake I've been tweaking on for a few weeks. I took the car to Gainesville Raceway on 5/27 for Midnight Madness. So far, it has proven to be much more resistant to heat soak in daily driving conditions than the Hellcat lower air box setup I ran before. While I still have some other things to try to improve it even further, results are in the numbers. The car trapped significantly better than the Hellcat setup, and was much more consistent when hot lapping the car, even in not so great air density/track conditions. DA on Friday ranged from +1776 to +900, with air temps from 84* to 70* and 34% to 53% humidity.
Car is a 2016 Challenger Scat Pack...8 spd auto trans....Atturo AZ850 275/40-20 tires. Car was run in Sport mode, auto shift, with 3/4 tank of an 80/20 mix of 93 and E85.
This is interesting, others have had better luck with the Hellcat setup. But hey it seemed to work for you, so maybe I’ll try it. Thanks for posting the video
Pops Smith It was interesting to see the difference in the IAT between the two of them. A lot of the heat intrusion issues with the Mopar come from that big hole in the heat shield for the inlet duct. Once that hole is filled, and the cutout on the upper edge is blocked, it cuts out +90% of the heat intrusion. If I can ever get the car back together, will test the 2 setups on a modified Scat.
Love the video.. I must be a slow reader.. I had a hell of a time keeping up.. Lol
You can always pause lol- I felt the same way though
You should try a couple of runs with no air filter. I haven't tried it yet. I have same engine with auto and typically do in lows to mid 12's. Don't know what I did different but had one run at 12.003 @114.??. Stock with 275 M/T rear tires and Hellcat air intake and filter.
these are good runs man. I would be really interested to see how you do with some radials on there. I dropped my 1/4 time by .66 by using them. You could be dipping into the 11s
The track was garbage Friday night...even guys on slicks were having a hard time hooking up. I've tried drag radials, and on a decent track, didn't see a gain. Then again, I can knock down 1.7x 60ft times on my street tires if the track is working. When I finally tune the car, then it will need a good sticky tire to hook up.
thats pretty damn impressive. I bought some 17" wheels and the nitto nt05r and FINALLY got a 1.73 60'. I'm still learning how to drive the car though. but for me it was a major improvement. are you running with traction control off?
I run everything in Sport mode. Normally I can get the car to hook pretty good, but it was sketchy Friday night. Even cars on drag radials were having issues. I only had a 1.88 60ft at best, and even then it felt kind of skittish. Next track visit will be to Orlando...that track works good, even on T&T nights.
Lonnie Aspinwall do you not use track mode for the transmission?
Nope, no track mode. I tried it a few times and never saw much improvement due to it spinning the tires on shifts. I did try it on drag radials, and it still spun a touch. I think track mode would be best used on a sticky tire like MT ET-R, NT-05R, or slicks. My Hoosiers didn't like it too much..lol.
Check my Scat Pack out! th-cam.com/video/h7Q9xer3fOk/w-d-xo.html
Nice Vid Lonnie! The track did suck Friday but you were running good in spite of it. I agree the Hellcat Box has gotta go! It did heat soak and the motor faded quite a bit. I've got another set up coming in a few days. My shorter Hellcat Sway Bar links will be here tomorrow so I can install my 17's. What did you think of the E85 mix?? Had fun bro and looking forward to more fun:)
I had a blast as well Gene. I actually like the E85/93 mix on the days when it's warm out. Once the DA starts to drop though, it will be time to go back to my race gas mix. E85 requires a lot more volume vs race gas, and I don't think the PCM can adapt enough to handle lower DA/air temps unless tuned specifically for the corn mix. But, in temps/DA like we had that night, it was damn near perfect for it. Can't wait to see how your car looks/runs with the 17's. You should pick up a bit just from the lost rotating mass vs stock 20's.
I love the 17's for sure. Definitely Old School look. Looks like Saturday the 24th is test n tune. Ready to try it again!
Good stuff... As you know, I was looking at both the Mopar CAI and the HC box setups. Appreciate the info sharing here, the M-CAI is looking to be a good grab. Are you running with or w/o the filter on the CAI when you are at the track?
Thats with the filter in place on the Mopar setup. Heck, I didn't even reset the adaptives this time....ran it in daily driver trim, other than the E85/93 mix.
I hear about a lot more people going the E85/93 mix for the octane boost benefits, but I also hear a lot of complaining about the issues ethanol causes with hoses and fuel systems (especially older vehicles, not newer). So, that being said, do you not worry about any issues with E85? I know a lot of manufacturers are implementing the newer rubber compounds to protect against the Ethanol causing rubber breakdown issues, but I still worry about the long term affects.
Considering most fuels nowadays are blended with ethanol, modern fuel systems are more resistant to its corrosive nature. I only run it as a mix when headed to the track, especially in warmer temps. But, I am curious how much of a gain our cars see on the dyno from the mix, especially on the stock tune. Even more interesting is will anyone ever do a flex fuel setup w/tune for our cars? The GM and Ford camps have it, and it makes for good gains, even for n/a cars. Hopefully it comes around for us at some point.
James Sokolovic octane boost benefits?
E85 has an octane rating of between 100 and 105.
I may have to try the 93/E85 mix on my SP, I have the HC box and with 93 could only hit high 114's on the same day in TX. On a humid day I'm only seeing 112's. I need to learn how to use my Tazer? Were you hitting 115's with it in sport mode or track mode? Nice runs for a stock computer!
Those runs were in Sport mode, letting the car shift itself. The E85/93 mix seems to be working good when its warmer outside, plus its a heck of a lot cheaper than race gas...lol. What would be an interesting comparison is E85/93 mix vs 93/race gas...dyno and track.
Another question, can I run E85 on my stock M6 Scatpack or do I need a different fuel system/tune for this type of fuel? How much E85 mixture should I run with my pump fuel ?
You can run a mix, but I wouldn't get too crazy with the ratio. Modern fuel systems are more tolerant of ethanol due to the higher E content in normal pump gas, so corrosion isn't as big of an issue as with older cars that were built when there was very little E mixed into pump gas. I run an 80/20 mix for track days, especially when it's warm out. For this outing, I had 1/2 tank of 93 with roughly 2.5 gals of E85. Once I tune the car, going to see if I can get an E30 tune for race days, or at least something close. As for a dedicated E85 only setup, not sure if anyone has done that for our cars yet. I know the GM and Ford camps can do a flex fuel setup that adjusts for the E85 content, but not sure about anything for us. Bad thing about a straight E85 setup is the volume of fuel needed....bigger injectors, hi flow pumps, and getting it tuned for the setup.
What's your IAT and what was the OAT that night?
Lonnie, what size & model Hoosiers were you running? I have a 17SP and was considering the Hoosier 275/40r17 DOT Drag Radials for better grip and gearing on 17x9.5 Racestars.
I had the 275 50 17's on a pair of 17x9 Cobra R wheels. They worked pretty good, but I had figured out to make the car work on street tires. So, wasn't a huge difference in 60ft times.
Lonnie Aspinwall , thank you!
You are welcome Robert. For the rear rims, I would go with either the race stars or look at the JMS Avengers. The Avengers are nice in that they use an acorn style lug nut vs the shank style of the race stars. That makes it so much easier to swap wheels...those shank style lugs with the washers can be a PITA. The Avengers can be found at jmschip.com
What do you think with Mopar CAÍ with no modifications? Still better than ORM box? Or no?
Without doing things to alleviate the hot air intrusion, it's marginally better than the HC setup on the street. At the track, it shows more of a gain due to dumping heat faster + larger filter element. I'll really put them to the test when my car is back together. New engine got a cam bearing at 1400 miles, so she's back in the shop for teardown/repair.
Thanks bud.
How do you feel about the Atturo tires in comparison to the stock 245's that come with these cars? How big is the difference in terms of racing at the track?
The Atturos are more forgiving and a bit more predictable than the 245's. My car had the F1 Summer tires from the factory, so they were a bit stickier than the all seasons that most Scats came equipped with. But, they were still finicky when it came to hooking at the track. I had some stellar 60ft times on them, but that was walking a thin line between hook and spin. The Atturos also don't hop as bad as the F1's if they do spin. The F1's were hopping bastards when they lost traction.
Lonnie Aspinwall Thank you, I really appreciate the detailed responses from both of my questions. You're very informed and I have complete trust in most if not everything you say. Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. Subscribed , you have a returning customer.
Thanks for the sub, and sorry I haven't done a video in a long while due to the car being broken (don't ask..it was a major brain fart moment on my part..lol). But, she's in the rebuild process and I will be hunting low 11's/high 10's on the new combo. She's gonna be stout, may even be full time corn fed. No blower, no bottle, au naturale' power.
What was the final verdict, and what EXACTLY did you modify on the Mopar?
Once I finished with the tweaking, the Mopar consistently outperformed the Hellcat setup. One big weakness of the HC setup is heat soak with hot lapping. Once that plastic gets hot, it's slow to cool down, even with the hood open in the staging lanes. I saw 1-2 tenths/1-2 mph dropoff with it vs the Mopar losing very little...as in a tenth or less/1 mph at most. Much more consistent performance from the Mopar cai. Modifications weren't significant, but they helped tremendously with hot air intrusion. 1st...either block the opening facing front (Charger) or get the Mopar Hellcat style air inlet duct (Challenger). 2nd...block the little notch on the upper edge. I used a piece of a small rubber trash can to make a blockoff plate. 3rd...I used 1/2" rubber foam under the air box to raise it. This puts it flush against the hood, sealing it better against hot air intrusion. It will be going back on the car with the new engine as well.
@@lonnieaspinwall3862 Thank you very much for the details. I have the Mopar CAI too. Do you have any way to get some pics? I am having trouble with figuring out what to make for a blockoff plate on the top notch.
@@azmrblack I'll send you a message through TH-cam when I get home with some contact info. If you are on facebook, send me a message through messenger...same name as on here. I'm also on the Challenger Talk forum as Evil87GN.
@@lonnieaspinwall3862 Thanks Lonnie 👍
@@azmrblack I didn't realize they did away with the messaging part of the site, so send me an email Slo86GN @ yahoo.com. I have pics on my phone of the mods + a few saved on my laptop. Leave it to YT to mess with the messaging side of things.
Also, do you think the car runs better with the 93/e85 blend, or the 93/100ish race fuel blend?
When its warm/hot out, it seems to run a bit better on the 93/E85 mix. But, when the temps/air density drop, it runs better on the 93/100 mix. I think thats due to the car needing more fuel volume as the density improves....and the stock tune can only adjust so far before the limits are reached. I ran into this issue with my Ecoboost Mustang. Below 60*, on the E30 tune, fuel system couldn't keep up with demand. On the race gas mix tune, it was fine. Once the weather settles down again (rain in the forecast for the weekend), will do more track testing.
Lonnie Aspinwall What ratio do you use for the e85 one? I'm planning on running my 17 charger 392 this weekend and it's supposed to be pretty warm out.
I usually run an 80/20 mix, or close to it. I had 2.5 gals of E85 in 1/2 tank of 93. Its just enough to bump the octane to 95 or so, and keep it stable.
What modifications have you made to the mopar CAI?
I raised the box about 1/2 inch closer to the hood, then made a block off plate for the cut out along the top edge where the rubber seal sits. When I get a chance, going to order some Delrin to make a spacer for the bottom and a better block off plate for the cut out. I also added the Mopar inlet tube to pull air from the headlight/seal off that big ass square hole in the front of the box. I'm going to try making a plate to allow using the Hellcat inlet tube. That will take some trial & error due to the tube's shape/where it interfaces with the Mopar box vs Hellcat one.
You're running that e85 mix on the stock tune?
392 Jake Yep, especially on days where the DA wasn't great. It wasn't a true E30 mix, but more like E20-ish. I was adding enough E to combat any knock from the "stellar" quality 93 we have. Once the DA drops below +1k or so, I would go back to my 93/race gas mix. Keeps the a/f from going too lean since E doesn't have the same energy per volume as regular fuels. I'm seriously thinking about going full E85 once the car is back together though.
Is that a line lock you are using?
Jonathan Díaz It's actually the Z Auto Tech Tazer. One of it's functions is a line lock. It uses the abs module to lock the front brakes, allowing the rears to spin freely. It's one of the many great features of a Tazer.
What is DA?
DA is a measure of air density, taking into consideration the humidity, air temperature, elevation. It stands for density altitude. The track at Gainesville is only roughly 100ft above sea level. But, factor in temperature + humidity, it seemed like I was at 1600ft above sea level. Positive DA hurts performance, negative DA helps, especially for naturally aspirated engines. I found that +/- 700 ft is worth a tenth and 1-1.5 mph on my old setup.
What tires u running
kaqurat33 I was on the 275/40-20 Atturo AZ850 this time. Really good tire for the $$.