Are Farmers To Blame For
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 เม.ย. 2024
- So many people, including James O’Brien on @LBCOfficial believe that most farmers supported #Brexit.
Farmers are demonstrating to show the country what is happening to the country’s food. They’re not looking for compassion or sympathy! Theyre campaigning to save our food security.
But research by Harper Adams University shows that the farming vote was split and likely was even lower than the national average given that 55% of men voted Brexit and the older generations the vote was much higher.
Added to which why is there a focus on farming and Brexit and no other industry? Votes by profession aren’t calculated or even demanded.
Here is the research on the farming vote:
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
#britishfood
#foodsecurity
#britishfarming
#britain
#britainnews
#foodie
#farmerprotest
#farmersprotest
Anyone who voted for Brexit has shown their political, economic, social and professional ignorance- yes they deserve blame for being gullible fools.
Very true.
I am with o Brian if they show some contrition and start campaigning to undo the damage I would start supporting them
@@davdonoghue do watch the new FT film to see how leave voters feel. There is no way that we can heal security and get rid of this problem without remainers stopping the holier than thou act demanding contrition. People voted in good faith, the politicians did the deceiving.
And blaming farmers is cutting your nose off to spite your face.
www.ft.com/video/5120d2fe-097c-4065-979e-eb05da42b901
@@lizwebstersbf Some people may have voted in good faith, However unfortunately the majority of English voted for their own selfish little reasons. It's in the English mindset to self destruct, cut off noses to spite their faces, little England etc. Unfortunately with the UK Union Scotland will always be outvoted and dragged along, no matter how much damage gets caused along the way.
@@chris_anon88 the entire country is unfair and undemocratic thanks to FPTP which props up feudal system.
As a remainer/ remoaner/ scaremonger, etc, I and many more were told. " You lost, get over it ". Well I am happy to say, I am over it. The sad thing is. Brexiters are NOT, hence their continual moaning and bitching and blaming anyone but themselves !
I’m sorry but i saw many pro brexit signs in the countryside during referendum, i have no sympathy for the farmers or fishermen, the backed Boris and his band of liars, I am suffering because you lot fell for lies and blinded by greed
Exactly, those billboards had a big influence on many in the country. People thought the farmers could be trusted and supported them. Not any more
I agree to an extent. Every farmer I’ve ever come across have been truly awful bigoted people. Not saying they all are. But my experience with farmers over 57 years has not put them in good light.
@@christopherwhittaker2620 I’ve met a lot of bigoted men who work in all professions. And some women too.
@@billpugh58 didn’t you watch all the video? The highest farmer vote was in Scotland. And landowners rent out advertising space on land. Not all land is owned by farmers.
@@lizwebstersbfLandowners have the choice as to who they allow to advertise on those spaces. I just don’t buy your argument in this instance.
When farmers stop voting for Conservative we'll start paying attention. But as long as they continue voting Tory that gave us Brexit they can stand at the bottom of the queue for sympathy.
Relax. Leave supporters will be voting Reform this time around.
@@SJG-nr8uj They won't up here , Reform simply don't exist , it'll be Conservative or SNP. Spoiler it'll be SNP, even farmers know what a F up Brexit is as they struggle to get parts for their machinery from EU and it nearly all comes from Europe. Rather than next day or that week its a lottery if they get it at all .Brexit the biggest F up in British history, even farmers know it . But hay if England vote Reform that's fabulous, well get clear of this shite all the quicker.
Stop deluding yourself . I live in Devon and the majority of farmers and fishermen I know , not only voted for but also supported brexit with adverts in fields. Probably nearer to 70 % of farmers voted for it around teignbridge.
What about everyone else in Teignbridge?
True for the fishing community here in Cornwall too.
But.... I've met quite a few UKIP types in Devon, for that might be a peculiarity amongst farmets down your end. We don't really have that down here.
@@marksimons8861 near 54% voted leave but what about them? She wasn't talking about anybody but farmers and fishermen.
Would you please tell us what you know about EU fiscal union, EU economic union, EU political union, the unification of member states’ armed forces under command of the European Council, the reckless expansionism of the EU across Eastern Europe, and the unfettered migration into the EU from North Africa and the Middle East, at the EU’s open invitation. It shouldn’t take you long!
and both are now reaping the benefits of brexit. Our fishing industry has never been better now we are out of the Common Fisheries Policy with quota's now at record highs.
I remember seeing loads of vote leave signs in farmers fields. This gave me the perception farmers supported Brexit and I believe this had an influence on the population voting to leave. Congratulations. You won. Get over it.
They were quite willing to shaft us all on the promise of higher prices , their greed has backfired.
Who was? Farmers don't sell produce to consumers.
Supermarkets do.
But you point is actually totally untrue. Those who did vote for it assumed the UK government would keep prices the same and carry on with some form of the CAP.
@@andrewclimo5709
Yes, because the farmers wanted to steal the NHS money from the big red buss for themself.
As soon as you look at the lies they fell for you realize what despicable beings they are.
Please tell us what you know about EU fiscal union, EU economic union, EU political union, the unification of member states’ armed forces under command of the European Council, the reckless expansionism of the EU across Eastern Europe, and the unfettered migration into the EU from North Africa and the Middle East, at the EU’s open invitation. It shouldn’t take you long!
@@andrewclimo5709 where have you been mate , there isn’t a farm these days that doesn’t have a farm shop attached selling direct to the public.Farmers thought they were going to be onto a winner because the big bad Europeans wouldn’t get easy access to our markets in other words a closed shop with the ability to charge what they want.Now it’s not panning out like that they are against Brexit , they fell for the lies and now it’s too late.
Perhaps the UK should have a re-count of the referendum vote since it seems nobody voted for Brexit.
They should apologise, they were promoting it none stop 20ft high signs. If they want redemption, 20ft high signs “we were wrong “!
Hahaha good idea, but nearly every field would have one again!
Yes absolutely right. They should dig out all those Vote Brexit signs and put them back up with a dirty great red X through brexit and write Vote Rejoin on it instead.
Absolutely. If they want any sympathy from me there will be huge signs saying sorry, we were wrong. That and a massive campaign from them to rejoin. Until that day I'll do my best to buy EU produce before I touch something with a red tractor on it!
Great comment! ❤
Do farmers deserves sympathy? NO!
Trolls do not either
Why?
not even the slightest. they voted for bigotry and ignorance.
now they are shocked by its consequences.
european farmers in general seem to blame others for their problems
@@jasonrhlfound a "brexiteer" (another word for small minded, ignorant bigot) and they are triggered
@@Winston-lf7sb Did you not listen to the video? Farmers voted in roughly the same proportion as the rest of the UK.
Basically a LOT of farmers, for some unknown reason, decided brexit would be good for them.
I have yet to hear why, a genuine farmer who supported brexit, has owned up to being wrong.
I mean, you don't need much of a brain to understand that brexit was impossible with the promises made.
Come on!
Admit, they voted for brexit......why? Give us your reasons, because its either stupidity or other nefarious reasons like racism.
I can't figure it out so enlighten me.
Greed.
Because a lot of farmers have views aligned with Tory values. Including the worst values around things like controlling our borders or to put it more directly racist bigots. Farmers have left a bad impression on me whenever I’ve come into contact with them. They were the original gammons.
@@SJG-nr8uj awe….let me guess. You voted to have economic self harm ? Are you a farmer or just someone who has or had issues with everything EU ?
@@christopherwhittaker2620 These are what you voted in favour of.
1. THE EU’s FEDERAL INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 3.4: “The Union shall establish an ECONOMIC and monetary UNION whose
currency is the euro.”
EU Five Presidents’ Report, 2015: “Progress MUST HAPPEN on four fronts: first, towards a genuine ECONOMIC UNION that ensures each economy has the structural features to prosper within the Monetary Union. Second, towards a FINANCIAL UNION that guarantees the integrity of our currency across the Monetary Union and increases risk-sharing with the private sector. This means completing the Banking Union and accelerating the Capital Markets Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union. Third, towards a FISCAL UNION that delivers both fiscal sustainability and fiscal stabilisation. And finally, towards a POLITICAL UNION that provides the foundation for all of the above through genuine democratic accountability, legitimacy and institutional strengthening.”
Angela Merkel’s immediate response to the referendum result, 24th June 2016: “Today is a watershed moment for Europe, and it is a watershed moment for the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS. There is no doubt that this is a blow to Europe, and to the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS.”
EU Rome Declaration, 25th March 2017: “Working towards COMPLETING the ECONOMIC and monetary UNION” (with a preferred deadline for completion of 2027).
ECB’s ‘Fiscal Implications of the EU Recovery Package’ 2020. “The way that the EU has responded to the crisis also has implications for the future design and implementation of the EUROPEAN GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK. First, while expansionary fiscal policy is necessary to sustain the recovery, going forward it will be important for the fiscal rules to effectively support the reduction of high government debt in good economic times. Second, NGEU constitutes a new and innovative element of the EUROPEAN FISCAL FRAMEWORK. It will result in the issuance of sizeable supranational debt over the coming years, and its establishment has signalled a political readiness to design a common fiscal tool when the need arises. This innovation, while a one-off, could also imply lessons for ECONOMIC and Monetary UNION, which still lacks a PERMANENT FISCAL CAPACITY AT SUPRANATIONAL LEVEL for macroeconomic stabilisation in deep crises. The review of the ECONOMIC GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK, which was launched by the Commission in February 2020 and postponed because of the pandemic, provides a GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO INCORPORATE THESE IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS.” (NGEU stands for “Next Generation European Union”).
From the EU’s own website: “Once the economic and financial crisis (of 2008/9) was overcome, the EU established a process aimed at reinforcing the architecture of EMU (ECONOMIC and monetary UNION). The process is based on the Five Presidents’ Report on Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union of 2015, which focused on four main issues:
• A genuine ECONOMIC UNION;
• A FINANCIAL UNION;
• A FISCAL UNION;
• A POLITICAL UNION.
These four unions are STRICTLY INTER-RELATED and would develop in parallel. The report was followed by a series of communications, proposals and measures, and the discussion is still ongoing.”
In 2022 all member states reaffirmed their commitment to economic union, as part of Lisbon Treaty Article 3.
2. THE EU’S MILITARY INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 42.3: “Member states shall make civilian and MILITARY capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives DEFINED BY THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL.”
The EU’s military headquarters is the Kortenberg Building in Brussels.
The EU Global Strategy, 30th June 2016, issued exactly one week after the referendum, contains the right of the EU’s military “to act autonomously (of NATO) if and when necessary”.
It will need this, because, as you should know, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the defence of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still under attack when it joins the EU, it will be the EU which is at war with Russia, not NATO. The defence of Ukraine doesn’t trigger the NATO charter.
On 19th February 2019 Federica Mogherini told an audience in Hamburg: “... all the way through the security spectrum, up to the military operations, because not so many know that the European Union has seventeen deployed missions and operations around the world. So, together, we are already a unique global security provider.” I checked this figure recently. It now stands at twenty-one.
On 23rd April 2019 the European Council issued its Military Command and Control Structures document, outlining its military command structure over member states’ land, sea and air forces. The diagram contained within reappears on the Wikipedia page for the Kortenberg Building, above.
In September 2021 Ursula Von der Leyen said this: “But what we need is the European Defence Union. In the last weeks there have been many discussions on expeditionary forces. On what type and how many we need: battlegroups or EU entry forces. This is no doubt part of the debate - and I believe it will be part of the solution. But the more fundamental issue is why this has not worked in the past. You can have the most advanced forces in the world - but if you are never prepared to use them - of what use are they?”
Last year the EU led joint military exercises in Spain. This is taken from the EU’s CSDP website: “The two-part MILEX 23 exercise commenced on 18 September and concluded on 22 October. The first part of this intense period was a 3-week planning phase by the MPCC in Brussels. In part two, this culminated in the EU’s first ever live military exercise from 16 - 22 October in Rota Naval Base, Cadiz, Spain. During Part 2, an EU Battlegroup-sized force carried out the Operational Plan developed by the MPCC in Part 1. Overall, 19 Member States contributed to MILEX 23.”
(CSDP = Common Security and Defence Policy. MPCC = Military Planning and Conduct Capability).
3. Reckless EU expansionism across Eastern Europe - widely known and reported on, including Albania (hotbed of gangsterism and corruption), Serbia and Montenegro (both traditional allies of Russia), Moldova (part of it coveted by Russia), Ukraine (currently at war with Russia), Turkey (instantly the largest, most populous and poorest country in the EU upon joining) and several others, all of which will bring nothing but a begging bowl to the EU’s table. Oh, except for Ukraine, because, as above, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the military aid of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still at war upon its accession the EU will be at war with Russia.
4. Unfettered migration into Europe from North Africa and the Middle East (the free movement of people was a secret part of the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership, in effect since 2010, and signed between the EU and Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, the Palestine Authority, Lebanon, Syria and Turkey). “Eurocrats do not consider (migration) to be a problem, but rather as a project”: Fabrice Leggeri, former Director of the European Border and Coastguard Agency (Frontex).
All this has been going on while you’ve been asleep for the last fifteen years.
@christopherwhittaker2620 he's a Russian troll probably. Place is full of them.
Liz, be honest and say YES!
Firstly: The majority of them hadn't valued what they got from the EU, hadn't treasured the diligent workers from EU countries. Kept complaining all the time, and that was the perfect motive that encouraged anti-EU politicians to move forward.
Secondly: The majority of them have massively helped the leave campaign gain their voice by playing the vital role in Without Farmers Without Foods psychological attack and so many people who have nothing to do with farmers but love, respect and value farmers have fallen for this move of farmers
Thirdly: The majority of them voted for Bexit.
So Liz, it is a Big Fat YES from me
The majority of the country voted for it. So what's your point?
@@andrewclimo5709 Be a tory to yourself and accept personal responsibility ?
@@andrewclimo5709 Liz isn't talking about other groups or about majo-/minority in this video, is she???
@@johannagarda The EU has been exposed, time and time again, as a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam. Their political conquest of all its member states is active, current and ongoing. Is it not now time for you to shut up?
Rural vote and racism played huge part
Racism 😅
Correct.
@@soulcrewblue8629Absolute cr*p.
now you're talking about the farmer's vote is irrelevant... it was, so are the fishermen's vote, but brexiteers used famers and fishermen in their campaign, and the fishermen and farmer's agreed with brexiteers
Farmers vote Tory
So what , David Gammoron was leader of remain and the Tory government. UKIP Cummings and traitor Boris are to blame for this shit-show
I don’t.
There are wealthy land owner types who do but many farmers aren't really that well off, and they don't vote Tory.
I know one farmer who votes Labour, and in my part of Powys there has been as many Lib Dem placards on display in farmers fields... bit of a mixed bag around these 'ere parts.
But what really matters is who the farmers support in the oncoming General Election - This horrible Tory outfit has well and truly 💩 on UK farmers, and this should realign their support for a tactical vote against the Toffs.
We do need farmers, and they're not all horrible Tory voters, please don't hate them all !
It doesn't really undermine the central point, however Farmers on the whole support the Tories. It's an interesting part of the Tory coalition given that it both includes free marketers (who want to get rid of subsidies and open up the UK markets to the world) and a Farming constituency that would be harmed by that - The problem is not that farmers voted brexit or not, it's that they vote for a party that wanted to screw them over, and certainly they should have deserted them in droves in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2019 But they didn't. It's also worth noting Farming essentially deserves blame for Brexit even if they voted for it on the national average, There shouldn't have been more than the lizardman constant given how obviously bad it was going to be.
This will eventually sort it self out, either by the Farming constituency winning the turf war in the Tory party (though it is very much over run by said free market libertarians) or, by abandoning the Tory party and trying to have their voice heard in a new party. Whether farming survives is another question.
@@lizwebstersbf
@@lizwebstersbfFunny 😊
The biggest impact was Boris Johnson lies
I was 14 when the vote happened, and knew even then that voting leave made no sense and would've voted remain if i could. due to the fact that i didnt take someone like boris johnson seriously.
so i have no sympathy for any adult at the time who voted leave, and didnt do their due diligence and got swept by the propaganda, i also think people who had specific biases were more likely to vote leave
@@SJG-nr8uj Yeah, i don't know much about that. what is your point?
I'd trust the vote to a 16 year old over a wealthy septegenarian any day of the week. You are the future after all.
Too many older people are stuck in a rose tinted past, a misplaced nostalgia that didn't exist. It's the future that matters most, you can't live in the past, rather learn from it. Xx
@@temi6034 Well, the following reveals the EU to be a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam that is actively, and currently, seeking the political conquest of all its member states. The tools at its disposal, and which it is currently employing, are 1. monetary union (the euro, whose use continues to expand, Croatia last year, Romania soon etc.), 2. fiscal union (Brussels sets taxes), 3. economic union (one big economy, which requires a central, federal government to run it), 4. political union - checkmate. In fact, as soon as Brussels has a fiscal capacity it's game over. All member states will be reduced to the status of the provinces.
The EU (as you can see below) already has the right to deploy the armed forces of member states as its own. It already does this.
Quote from Viviane Reding, former EU Commission Vice-President: "We need to build the United States of Europe with the (unelected) Commission as its government". That is the end of democracy in Europe.
Here is the evidence:
1. THE EU’s FEDERAL INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 3.4: “The Union shall establish an ECONOMIC and monetary UNION whose currency is the euro.”
EU Five Presidents’ Report, 2015: “Progress MUST HAPPEN on four fronts: first, towards a genuine ECONOMIC UNION that ensures each economy has the structural features to prosper within the Monetary Union. Second, towards a FINANCIAL UNION that guarantees the integrity of our currency across the Monetary Union and increases risk-sharing with the private sector. This means completing the Banking Union and accelerating the Capital Markets Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union. Third, towards a FISCAL UNION that delivers both fiscal sustainability and fiscal stabilisation. And finally, towards a POLITICAL UNION that provides the foundation for all of the above through genuine democratic accountability, legitimacy and institutional strengthening.”
Angela Merkel’s immediate response to the referendum result, 24th June 2016: “Today is a watershed moment for Europe, and it is a watershed moment for the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS. There is no doubt that this is a blow to Europe, and to the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS.”
EU Rome Declaration, 25th March 2017: “Working towards COMPLETING the ECONOMIC and monetary UNION” (with a preferred deadline for completion of 2027).
ECB’s ‘Fiscal Implications of the EU Recovery Package’ 2020. “The way that the EU has responded to the crisis also has implications for the future design and implementation of the EUROPEAN GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK. First, while expansionary fiscal policy is necessary to sustain the recovery, going forward it will be important for the fiscal rules to effectively support the reduction of high government debt in good economic times. Second, NGEU constitutes a new and innovative element of the EUROPEAN FISCAL FRAMEWORK. It will result in the issuance of sizeable supranational debt over the coming years, and its establishment has signalled a political readiness to design a common fiscal tool when the need arises. This innovation, while a one-off, could also imply lessons for ECONOMIC and Monetary UNION, which still lacks a PERMANENT FISCAL CAPACITY AT SUPRANATIONAL LEVEL for macroeconomic stabilisation in deep crises. The review of the ECONOMIC GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK, which was launched by the Commission in February 2020 and postponed because of the pandemic, provides a GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO INCORPORATE THESE IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS.” (NGEU stands for “Next Generation European Union”).
From the EU’s own website: “Once the economic and financial crisis (of 2008/9) was overcome, the EU established a process aimed at reinforcing the architecture of EMU (ECONOMIC and monetary UNION). The process is based on the Five Presidents’ Report on Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union of 2015, which focused on four main issues:
• A genuine ECONOMIC UNION;
• A FINANCIAL UNION;
• A FISCAL UNION;
• A POLITICAL UNION.
These four unions are STRICTLY INTER-RELATED and would develop in parallel. The report was followed by a series of communications, proposals and measures, and the discussion is still ongoing.”
In 2022 all member states reaffirmed their commitment to economic union, as part of Lisbon Treaty Article 3.
2. THE EU’S MILITARY INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 42.3: “Member states shall make civilian and MILITARY capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives DEFINED BY THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL.”
The EU’s military headquarters is the Kortenberg Building in Brussels.
The EU Global Strategy, 30th June 2016, issued exactly one week after the referendum, contains the right of the EU’s military “to act autonomously (of NATO) if and when necessary”.
It will need this, because, as you should know, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the defence of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still under attack when it joins the EU, it will be the EU which is at war with Russia, not NATO. The defence of Ukraine doesn’t trigger the NATO charter.
On 19th February 2019 Federica Mogherini told an audience in Hamburg: “... all the way through the security spectrum, up to the military operations, because not so many know that the European Union has seventeen deployed missions and operations around the world. So, together, we are already a unique global security provider.” I checked this figure recently. It now stands at twenty-one.
On 23rd April 2019 the European Council issued its Military Command and Control Structures document, outlining its military command structure over member states’ land, sea and air forces. The diagram contained within reappears on the Wikipedia page for the Kortenberg Building, above.
In September 2021 Ursula Von der Leyen said this: “But what we need is the European Defence Union. In the last weeks there have been many discussions on expeditionary forces. On what type and how many we need: battlegroups or EU entry forces. This is no doubt part of the debate - and I believe it will be part of the solution. But the more fundamental issue is why this has not worked in the past. You can have the most advanced forces in the world - but if you are never prepared to use them - of what use are they?”
Last year the EU led joint military exercises in Spain. This is taken from the EU’s CSDP website: “The two-part MILEX 23 exercise commenced on 18 September and concluded on 22 October. The first part of this intense period was a 3-week planning phase by the MPCC in Brussels. In part two, this culminated in the EU’s first ever live military exercise from 16 - 22 October in Rota Naval Base, Cadiz, Spain. During Part 2, an EU Battlegroup-sized force carried out the Operational Plan developed by the MPCC in Part 1. Overall, 19 Member States contributed to MILEX 23.”
(CSDP = Common Security and Defence Policy. MPCC = Military Planning and Conduct Capability).
3. Reckless EU expansionism across Eastern Europe - widely known and reported on, including Albania (hotbed of gangsterism and corruption), Serbia and Montenegro (both traditional allies of Russia), Moldova (part of it coveted by Russia), Ukraine (currently at war with Russia), Turkey (instantly the largest, most populous and poorest country in the EU upon joining) and several others, all of which will bring nothing but a begging bowl to the EU’s table. Oh, except for Ukraine, because, as above, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the military aid of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still at war upon its accession the EU will be at war with Russia.
4. Unfettered migration into Europe from North Africa and the Middle East (the free movement of people was a secret part of the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership, in effect since 2010, and signed between the EU and Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, the Palestine Authority, Lebanon, Syria and Turkey). “Eurocrats do not consider (migration) to be a problem, but rather as a project”: Fabrice Leggeri, former Director of the European Border and Coastguard Agency (Frontex).
Sixteen million people voted for all this without realising it. Now all they are worried about (as you can see from the comments) is the fatness of their wallets.
@@ianlightfoot9458If you mean me, I fit none of these descriptions. The EU fits the description, though, of a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam, that wants economic union complete by 2027. It means one big economy and that requires a central, federal government, so it is political unification. no single electorate will ever be able to shift a federal government out of power, with the result that it will simply self-perpetuate, like the European Commission does now. In fact the federal government may well be the European Commission, just with additional powers over fiscal and economic policy.
You have a right to know that this is what the EU is up to. They would rather you did not. There are countries who categorically will not accept rule by Brussels, such as Poland, Hungary, Greece etc., with the result that the EU will fall apart, possibly with rioting, quite possibly in bloodshed and wars of independence. Their bids for independence will be hampered by the fact that the EU already can, and does, deploy member states' armed forces as its own. So the future is looking a bit less rosy than you think for all member states.
The UK voted, by electoral majority, not to be part of the megalomaniac scam.
He/she is a at troll.@@temi6034
Not entirely. But yes they are complicit in this Brexit disaster. They took away opportunities for young people we once had when we were in the EU. Will never forgive their ignorance. Ever.
Please tell us what you know about EU fiscal union, EU economic union, EU political union, the unification of member states’ armed forces under command of the European Council, the reckless expansionism of the EU across Eastern Europe, and the unfettered migration into the EU from North Africa and the Middle East, at the EU’s open invitation. I wish to check your own level of ignorance, so over to you....
@SJG-nr8uj Do not presume my level of intelligence. Know all about the Maastricht criteria, thanks. Your comment belies ignorance as it doesn't even in any way reflect my original point about Brexiters taking away from young people the ease we all once had of living and working in the EU. If I can wade through your list of the failings of the EU, if that was your point, then I will counter that with better to have a seat at the table (especially as the biggest whining guest for so long at that table) to influence laws then be a bystander hoping for some scraps from NA and Asia. That's worked out very well over the last 3 years. Um, over to you.
Which opportunities are these? The right of the citizen to make those who make the laws accountable to the electorate?
@@Curryking32000 That comment is why so many here voted to leave the EU. Ever heard of EU elected MPs? Sadly one of them was Farage. Wonder who foolishly elected him in to push his own anti EU agenda to be free enough to greedily avoid paying EU tax he should have paid to prevent off shore tax dodging. No EU now to make your own laws- including all of the laws, revolving Tory MPs and PM you never voted for! Ah if it makes like easier for you to not understand the obvious then have fun. The rest of us like facts and reality.
@@BC-lp2xi So you've got a brain? Any chance of you actually using it?
1. THE EU’s FEDERAL INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 3.4: “The Union shall establish an ECONOMIC and monetary UNION whose currency is the euro.”
EU Five Presidents’ Report, 2015: “Progress MUST HAPPEN on four fronts: first, towards a genuine ECONOMIC UNION that ensures each economy has the structural features to prosper within the Monetary Union. Second, towards a FINANCIAL UNION that guarantees the integrity of our currency across the Monetary Union and increases risk-sharing with the private sector. This means completing the Banking Union and accelerating the Capital Markets Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union. Third, towards a FISCAL UNION that delivers both fiscal sustainability and fiscal stabilisation. And finally, towards a POLITICAL UNION that provides the foundation for all of the above through genuine democratic accountability, legitimacy and institutional strengthening.”
Angela Merkel’s immediate response to the referendum result, 24th June 2016: “Today is a watershed moment for Europe, and it is a watershed moment for the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS. There is no doubt that this is a blow to Europe, and to the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS.”
EU Rome Declaration, 25th March 2017: “Working towards COMPLETING the ECONOMIC and monetary UNION” (with a preferred deadline for completion of 2027).
ECB’s ‘Fiscal Implications of the EU Recovery Package’ 2020. “The way that the EU has responded to the crisis also has implications for the future design and implementation of the EUROPEAN GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK. First, while expansionary fiscal policy is necessary to sustain the recovery, going forward it will be important for the fiscal rules to effectively support the reduction of high government debt in good economic times. Second, NGEU constitutes a new and innovative element of the EUROPEAN FISCAL FRAMEWORK. It will result in the issuance of sizeable supranational debt over the coming years, and its establishment has signalled a political readiness to design a common fiscal tool when the need arises. This innovation, while a one-off, could also imply lessons for ECONOMIC and Monetary UNION, which still lacks a PERMANENT FISCAL CAPACITY AT SUPRANATIONAL LEVEL for macroeconomic stabilisation in deep crises. The review of the ECONOMIC GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK, which was launched by the Commission in February 2020 and postponed because of the pandemic, provides a GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO INCORPORATE THESE IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS.” (NGEU stands for “Next Generation European Union”).
From the EU’s own website: “Once the economic and financial crisis (of 2008/9) was overcome, the EU established a process aimed at reinforcing the architecture of EMU (ECONOMIC and monetary UNION). The process is based on the Five Presidents’ Report on Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union of 2015, which focused on four main issues:
• A genuine ECONOMIC UNION;
• A FINANCIAL UNION;
• A FISCAL UNION;
• A POLITICAL UNION.
These four unions are STRICTLY INTER-RELATED and would develop in parallel. The report was followed by a series of communications, proposals and measures, and the discussion is still ongoing.”
In 2022 all member states reaffirmed their commitment to economic union, as part of Lisbon Treaty Article 3.
2. THE EU’S MILITARY INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 42.3: “Member states shall make civilian and MILITARY capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives DEFINED BY THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL.”
The EU’s military headquarters is the Kortenberg Building in Brussels.
The EU Global Strategy, 30th June 2016, issued exactly one week after the referendum, contains the right of the EU’s military “to act autonomously (of NATO) if and when necessary”.
It will need this, because, as you should know, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the defence of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still under attack when it joins the EU, it will be the EU which is at war with Russia, not NATO. The defence of Ukraine doesn’t trigger the NATO charter.
On 19th February 2019 Federica Mogherini told an audience in Hamburg: “... all the way through the security spectrum, up to the military operations, because not so many know that the European Union has seventeen deployed missions and operations around the world. So, together, we are already a unique global security provider.” I checked this figure recently. It now stands at twenty-one.
On 23rd April 2019 the European Council issued its Military Command and Control Structures document, outlining its military command structure over member states’ land, sea and air forces. The diagram contained within reappears on the Wikipedia page for the Kortenberg Building, above.
In September 2021 Ursula Von der Leyen said this: “But what we need is the European Defence Union. In the last weeks there have been many discussions on expeditionary forces. On what type and how many we need: battlegroups or EU entry forces. This is no doubt part of the debate - and I believe it will be part of the solution. But the more fundamental issue is why this has not worked in the past. You can have the most advanced forces in the world - but if you are never prepared to use them - of what use are they?”
Last year the EU led joint military exercises in Spain. This is taken from the EU’s CSDP website: “The two-part MILEX 23 exercise commenced on 18 September and concluded on 22 October. The first part of this intense period was a 3-week planning phase by the MPCC in Brussels. In part two, this culminated in the EU’s first ever live military exercise from 16 - 22 October in Rota Naval Base, Cadiz, Spain. During Part 2, an EU Battlegroup-sized force carried out the Operational Plan developed by the MPCC in Part 1. Overall, 19 Member States contributed to MILEX 23.”
(CSDP = Common Security and Defence Policy. MPCC = Military Planning and Conduct Capability).
3. Reckless EU expansionism across Eastern Europe - widely known and reported on, including Albania (hotbed of gangsterism and corruption), Serbia and Montenegro (both traditional allies of Russia), Moldova (part of it coveted by Russia), Ukraine (currently at war with Russia), Turkey (instantly the largest, most populous and poorest country in the EU upon joining) and several others, all of which will bring nothing but a begging bowl to the EU’s table. Oh, except for Ukraine, because, as above, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the military aid of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still at war upon its accession the EU will be at war with Russia.
4. Unfettered migration into Europe from North Africa and the Middle East (the free movement of people was a secret part of the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership, in effect since 2010, and signed between the EU and Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, the Palestine Authority, Lebanon, Syria and Turkey). “Eurocrats do not consider (migration) to be a problem, but rather as a project”: Fabrice Leggeri, former Director of the European Border and Coastguard Agency (Frontex).
All this has been going on while you’ve been asleep for the last fifteen years.
Compassion? Do you remember the insults people who voted remain got? Do you remember the abuse for wanting to remain. They made their bed they have to lie in it.
Its worse than that. They made their bed and we all have to lie in it even us remainers.
@@SJG-nr8uj plenty to know that you are crazy :d:d
First do you know what EU stands for , it's Europe so yes Eastern Europe is part of that .
Second did you ever visited Praag , that is also Eastern Europe so why so condescending , IT's UK that is the sick man of Europe :d.
3th I know plenty Polish that work in hotels in Scotland and all pay taxes but I almost never seen any Scots doing or even soliciting for those jobs even not when the hotel has shortage in staff.
4th EU don't has an army :d The European army or EU army are terms for a hypothetical army of the European Union. Currently, there is no such army, and defence is a matter for the member states.
but i gues you don't know the meaning of hypothetical so here is it's meaning "imagined or suggested, but perhaps not true or really happening". It was sujested in 1950 but was never achieved !!
5th unfettered migration in the EU :d:d where do you get that :d but it shows why you voted to leave , pure racism :d:d
@@SJG-nr8uj How about you do your own research and come back and let us know. Just stop posting the same post over and over you are not fooling anyone troll
How many farmers voted Tory in ,2019? Because that was the real issue: leaving the SM, which was in their manifesto, so no Tory voters can say they were conned. I blame every single Tory voter and everyone not voting against them, so non voters are also to blame..
For sure !
No sympathy from me.
Where to start. Insane to leave a trading block and one of the largest markets in the World, next door to you. EU that's expanding makes sense a bigger market. Political Union sounds good to me, for example the EU has a trade deal with the Australia, our politicians negotiated a much worse deal with Australia and now because UK is out it cannot influence the EU. Now to immigration has it stopped immigrants coming to UK ? Sunak is desperate for a trade deal with India, the sticking point is the number of Indians that can come to UK and make no mistake the Indians will come as their market is bigger than UK and we need the Indian Trade Deal, bet a Racist like you will hate that. Also water quality was better in UK when we were in the EU. Do you want me to got on ? Let's have a referendum on rejoining the EU we will vote by over 60% to rejoin..@@SJG-nr8uj
The fisherman have gone awfully quite leaving the limelight to the farmers
That is because most of what they catch is sold in the EU as Brits do not eat the species caught.
Yes it a surprise that isnt it- NOT. Though I would say I have heard more fishermen admitting their mistake than I have farmers
Yes, they voted for it, and voted Conservative/Brexit/racist after.
You need to take responsibility and make good if you want help out of the hole you dug.
Don't be silly. That's no more true than the old trope that all Green Voters superglue themselves to the pavement in your local high street every five minutes, are vegan and want to ban the bomb.
Farmers certainly contributed to Brexshit.
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam.
THE EU’S DUPLICITY
1. The European Constitution rewritten as the Lisbon Treaty.
2. The unification of member states’ armed forces under command of the European Council.
3. Cameron’s bogus opt-outs.
4. The euro and Schengen lined up for us in the event of a Remain victory.
5. Theresa may and the Customs Union
6. Meddling in British politics post-referendum
7. The move to QMV and the abolition of national vetoes
8. Meddling in Polish politics.
9. The Islamification of Europe, orchestrated by the EU.
10. European federalism.
Which one would you like to discuss first?
Anyone who voted for brexit and is now suffering as a consequence of brexit happening, deserves no sympathy.
Anyone who voted remain and is now suffering from the consequences of brexit happening, deserve all the sympathy in the world.
The tories sold the farmers down the river (as they did all of the brexit voters) but most the farmers were rowing the boat as fast as they could!.
A little humility in the farming community would go a long way. Sadly, still in the denial phase, they come across as arrogant and tone deaf.
Why ? The government was/is crapola and pulled/and still is pulling..the wool over your eyes.
Actually more than 60% farmers did support Brexit on non practical false promises.
No one really did homework themselves before voting for leave. Media was't reporting but misleading.
Now? Nothing can replace such a large trading block at the door step.
Farmers had a powerful impact on other people though, convincing many as to the veracity of brexit.
As someone who has to suffer the almost daily acts of selfishness of local farmers who clearly consider their interests to be paramount and screw the rest of the community, even when this involves illegality and endangers others, it’s hard to feel other than schadenfreude over Brexit voting farmers.
I do NOT believe that farmers voted 52/48 for Brexit. It would be more like 75% for leave.
What makes you think you can just ignore the fact that the EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam?
They were told what would happen....
Clearly you didn’t watch the film!
like us all they were lied to....show some humanity dude....
@@user-ol3xe5fz4u Yup we were all lied to... humanity doesnt come into it.
@@lizwebstersbf Theres a film?
It appears that stupidity does because people were warned what would happen. I forgot one warned what would happen. So I don't have any sympathy with the BREXITEERS@@robbiegrant4977
The tories told the farmers "WE HAVE YOUR BACKS" exactly what they wanted to hear!. But they didnt expect them to empty their wallets did they!...
Absolutely not. In my local, there were farmers celebrating for weeks after brexit. They have made their bed, and now they have to lay in it.
Mrs Webster you do have my sympathy, but farmers who indeed VOTED FOR brexit quite frankly deserve no sympathy at all..
Why in the world, would you vote for brexit when the CAP directly subsidizes your industry?? when most of the agricultural products are exported to the EU... you know ? UK's main and closest trading partner? Why in the world would the farmers believe a second the false promises of a serial liar, that when the CAP subsidies ended the UK would step in... as if the UK could match the 264 BILLION € that the EU has at its disposal for the CAP...
WHY?? WHY would a farmer ever consider voting for brexit....?? It is still unbelievable to me.
For greed - and greed is not a good adviser
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam.
THE EU’S DUPLICITY
1. The European Constitution rewritten as the Lisbon Treaty.
2. The unification of member states’ armed forces under command of the European Council.
3. Cameron’s bogus opt-outs.
4. The euro and Schengen lined up for us in the event of a Remain victory.
5. Theresa may and the Customs Union
6. Meddling in British politics post-referendum
7. The move to QMV and the abolition of national vetoes
8. Meddling in Polish politics.
9. The Islamification of Europe, orchestrated by the EU.
10. European federalism.
Which one would you like to discuss first?
Liz, I am certainly not the best placed to judge if someone voted for Brexit or not because I live in France. Seems to me that many Brexit-voting people are not particularly proud of it (once very vocal and now very discreete). La victoire a plein de pères, la défaite est orpheline as we say here (Victory has many fathers and defeat is orphean). Based on all the reports I can read over the 2016-2024 period there were many farmers, fishermen who voted Brexit in much higher numbers. To say it is not possible because they shot their own foot but it is and the same way as many British "expats" (I mean Immigrants) in Spain voted to leave. Anyways, It is anyones right to vote how they wish. I am just annoyed by this majority now claiming they did not vote for this when there were big celebretions outside Westminster for Farage's "Independence day" and big fuss in European Parliament for the departure of British MEPs (but they keep their EU retirement benefits).
So no complains about spilled milk but rather how can we fix this mess and are British people really interested in reversing the mess?
Not only did they vote brexit most of them vote Tory as well!
@@SJG-nr8uj sorry I don't read Daily Mail.
@@jstelznerNeither do I. I do read the EU's own treaties, documents and declarations, and now it's your turn to do the same.
1. THE EU’s FEDERAL INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 3.4: “The Union shall establish an ECONOMIC and monetary UNION whose currency is the euro.”
EU Five Presidents’ Report, 2015: “Progress MUST HAPPEN on four fronts: first, towards a genuine ECONOMIC UNION that ensures each economy has the structural features to prosper within the Monetary Union. Second, towards a FINANCIAL UNION that guarantees the integrity of our currency across the Monetary Union and increases risk-sharing with the private sector. This means completing the Banking Union and accelerating the Capital Markets Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union. Third, towards a FISCAL UNION that delivers both fiscal sustainability and fiscal stabilisation. And finally, towards a POLITICAL UNION that provides the foundation for all of the above through genuine democratic accountability, legitimacy and institutional strengthening.”
Angela Merkel’s immediate response to the referendum result, 24th June 2016: “Today is a watershed moment for Europe, and it is a watershed moment for the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS. There is no doubt that this is a blow to Europe, and to the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS.”
EU Rome Declaration, 25th March 2017: “Working towards COMPLETING the ECONOMIC and monetary UNION” (with a preferred deadline for completion of 2027).
ECB’s ‘Fiscal Implications of the EU Recovery Package’ 2020. “The way that the EU has responded to the crisis also has implications for the future design and implementation of the EUROPEAN GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK. First, while expansionary fiscal policy is necessary to sustain the recovery, going forward it will be important for the fiscal rules to effectively support the reduction of high government debt in good economic times. Second, NGEU constitutes a new and innovative element of the EUROPEAN FISCAL FRAMEWORK. It will result in the issuance of sizeable supranational debt over the coming years, and its establishment has signalled a political readiness to design a common fiscal tool when the need arises. This innovation, while a one-off, could also imply lessons for ECONOMIC and Monetary UNION, which still lacks a PERMANENT FISCAL CAPACITY AT SUPRANATIONAL LEVEL for macroeconomic stabilisation in deep crises. The review of the ECONOMIC GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK, which was launched by the Commission in February 2020 and postponed because of the pandemic, provides a GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO INCORPORATE THESE IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS.” (NGEU stands for “Next Generation European Union”).
From the EU’s own website: “Once the economic and financial crisis (of 2008/9) was overcome, the EU established a process aimed at reinforcing the architecture of EMU (ECONOMIC and monetary UNION). The process is based on the Five Presidents’ Report on Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union of 2015, which focused on four main issues:
• A genuine ECONOMIC UNION;
• A FINANCIAL UNION;
• A FISCAL UNION;
• A POLITICAL UNION.
These four unions are STRICTLY INTER-RELATED and would develop in parallel. The report was followed by a series of communications, proposals and measures, and the discussion is still ongoing.”
In 2022 all member states reaffirmed their commitment to economic union, as part of Lisbon Treaty Article 3.
2. THE EU’S MILITARY INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 42.3: “Member states shall make civilian and MILITARY capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives DEFINED BY THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL.”
The EU’s military headquarters is the Kortenberg Building in Brussels.
The EU Global Strategy, 30th June 2016, issued exactly one week after the referendum, contains the right of the EU’s military “to act autonomously (of NATO) if and when necessary”.
It will need this, because, as you should know, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the defence of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still under attack when it joins the EU, it will be the EU which is at war with Russia, not NATO. The defence of Ukraine doesn’t trigger the NATO charter.
On 19th February 2019 Federica Mogherini told an audience in Hamburg: “... all the way through the security spectrum, up to the military operations, because not so many know that the European Union has seventeen deployed missions and operations around the world. So, together, we are already a unique global security provider.” I checked this figure recently. It now stands at twenty-one.
On 23rd April 2019 the European Council issued its Military Command and Control Structures document, outlining its military command structure over member states’ land, sea and air forces. The diagram contained within reappears on the Wikipedia page for the Kortenberg Building, above.
In September 2021 Ursula Von der Leyen said this: “But what we need is the European Defence Union. In the last weeks there have been many discussions on expeditionary forces. On what type and how many we need: battlegroups or EU entry forces. This is no doubt part of the debate - and I believe it will be part of the solution. But the more fundamental issue is why this has not worked in the past. You can have the most advanced forces in the world - but if you are never prepared to use them - of what use are they?”
Last year the EU led joint military exercises in Spain. This is taken from the EU’s CSDP website: “The two-part MILEX 23 exercise commenced on 18 September and concluded on 22 October. The first part of this intense period was a 3-week planning phase by the MPCC in Brussels. In part two, this culminated in the EU’s first ever live military exercise from 16 - 22 October in Rota Naval Base, Cadiz, Spain. During Part 2, an EU Battlegroup-sized force carried out the Operational Plan developed by the MPCC in Part 1. Overall, 19 Member States contributed to MILEX 23.”
(CSDP = Common Security and Defence Policy. MPCC = Military Planning and Conduct Capability).
3. Reckless EU expansionism across Eastern Europe - widely known and reported on, including Albania (hotbed of gangsterism and corruption), Serbia and Montenegro (both traditional allies of Russia), Moldova (part of it coveted by Russia), Ukraine (currently at war with Russia), Turkey (instantly the largest, most populous and poorest country in the EU upon joining) and several others, all of which will bring nothing but a begging bowl to the EU’s table. Oh, except for Ukraine, because, as above, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the military aid of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still at war upon its accession the EU will be at war with Russia.
4. Unfettered migration into Europe from North Africa and the Middle East (the free movement of people was a secret part of the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership, in effect since 2010, and signed between the EU and Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, the Palestine Authority, Lebanon, Syria and Turkey). “Eurocrats do not consider (migration) to be a problem, but rather as a project”: Fabrice Leggeri, former Director of the European Border and Coastguard Agency (Frontex).
All this has been going on while you’ve been asleep for the last fifteen years.
Their own fault.
If you live in the UK you will still need to eat,whosever "fault" it was.
@@chiccabay9911Indeed.
And that was the plan.
Cheap Aussie and NZ beef and lamb, chlorinated US chicken
We know Liz what’s happening. We know why it’s happening. We know nothing can now be done about it. It’s done. We’re done as a nation. We’re bankrupt.
This was always THE PLAN. The one Rishi is following right now. Suck the Brits dry.
Is being duped by Farrage tantamount to a crime? Yes, yes it is. More fool you Bexiteers.
I was watching one of the farmers at that recent protest in London- he used the word 'townies' to describe non-rural population, and in my view he used it with pretty obvious disdain. I personally find it very sad that farmers have still not moved past that old prejudice towards the urban population.
When ordinary people watch farmers openly using derogatory terms to describe them, surely it is understandable that they struggle to find any sympathy for the farmers?
Farmers have a reputation for being abrasive, rude, and aggressive towards members of the public. And in my admittedly limited experience, that negative reputation is deserved.
As an example, I've been challenged a couple of times by famers and their staff when using a legal public right of way, both on club walks and solo.
Let's consider the converse scenario- what if the urban population told farmers that their normal rights do not apply when they come into towns? Or that a famer's opinions are utterly worthless about any issue that relates to an area with more than 50 houses? Many farmers are fairly open about viewing urban people with disdain. It seems unfair to criticise the urban folks for not liking the farmers who openly dislike them.
I will add that I personally have enormous respect for farmers and the invaluable work they do, and I recognise that many of the urban visitors to the countryside are not reasonable or respectful in their conduct.
But farmers have a massive image problem in terms of how poorly the urban public view them. And now that the time has come that farmers look for sympathy and support from the urban population, how can they be surprised when that public is left unmoved?
The fact that the majority of farmers are strong Tory supporters who have over the last 14 years supported a government that was clearly intent on the ruination of our NHS and our public service makes matters even worse, in terms of the farmers gaining any sympathy.
Honestly, and without any intentional disrespect- it is really, really hard for an ordinary urban person to find even a scrap of sympathy for farmers.
Its easy to get the impression that farmers disrespect and dislike 'townies' as a general population, and one can see examples of farmers expressing those views on a regular basis. Can it be any surprise that the general population reciprocate those negative feelings?
To be fair, I imagine it is probably a minority of farmers who have those old prejudices these days, and who talk of 'townies' with clear disdain.
But the problem is that it only takes one negative example like the guy in the tractor protest, to resurrect and reinforce those old stereotypes about farmers.
And you think that townies are never derogatory about people who live out in the country?
it's now irrelevant who voted what , the important thing is to get adults running the country
I deal with farmers on a daily basis, and during the referendum, almost all were in favour of Brexit. This sounds just like trying to justify what they did, oh, and by the way Harper Adams is an agricultural college for farmers, .not the most unbiased establishment establishment
Just on a note ... if boris says tomorrow that he is running and that he will back farmers... how many of the farmers will vote for him ?... after the lies... how many can you guarantee that they wont ?
Signs in farmers fields saying Vote Leave all over the place, farmers are usually Tory, so I have little sympathy. Get them to put signs in fields saying ‘I voted remain’, or ‘I voted leave, I was wrong I am sorry’. Perhaps another saying, .’Vote tactically to get Tories out’. I might then begin to forgive them.
I feel your frustration Liz, but are you at any point going to call out your Brexit voting colleagues? You do such good work, but this is your Achilles heel. I agree and support everthing else you say, but there was never any vocal support for 'Remain' in the farming community .... just lots of 'Leave' posters in the fields. The anger and vengefulness will remain because Brexit has caused perminent irreparable damage. It will not be possible to start the process of repair until 'Leavers' openly admit they were wrong, and seemingly that's not going to happen. I fear that it will not be until time replaces the current population that the UK (or what's left of it) will seek a union with the rest of Europe. As you correctly say, by then it will be too late for many.
Absolutely Chris. I like your “What’s left if it” remark, as I’ve said in my post, you look around at the roads, rail infrastructure abandoned (HS2), school falling down, water companies going bust, sewerage in rivers and sea, post office in its last legs etc and you think where’s the future now we’ve literally shit ourselves in the foot. Or in my case, a lot if my friends, neighbours and acquaintances did that to me!
*shot
Anyone who voted for Brexit who now recognise Brexit is a con deserves compassion.
They need to now actively voice their distain and scream to rejoin.
There is absolutely no chance of re-joining so calm down. The EU will be toast within a couple of years of economic union. The EU wants economic union complete by 2027.
I am with o Brian if farmers were to show some contrition and start campaigning to undo the damage (to the country) I would start supporting them
Definitely. But I saw not a single EU flag on any of their tractors.
@@SJG-nr8ujWe have been through this before - This is not an education forum , you are expected to have some knowledge of and an opinion on any and all of these issues before posting .
@@davdonoghueHilarious! Best laugh all day! I report on the EU's own treaties, documents and declarations, and I actually don't venture an opinion. Oh, except where I call the EU's expansionism across Eastern Europe "reckless". But you can judge this for yourself below in section 3.
1. THE EU’s FEDERAL INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 3.4: “The Union shall establish an ECONOMIC and monetary UNION whose currency is the euro.”
EU Five Presidents’ Report, 2015: “Progress MUST HAPPEN on four fronts: first, towards a genuine ECONOMIC UNION that ensures each economy has the structural features to prosper within the Monetary Union. Second, towards a FINANCIAL UNION that guarantees the integrity of our currency across the Monetary Union and increases risk-sharing with the private sector. This means completing the Banking Union and accelerating the Capital Markets Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union. Third, towards a FISCAL UNION that delivers both fiscal sustainability and fiscal stabilisation. And finally, towards a POLITICAL UNION that provides the foundation for all of the above through genuine democratic accountability, legitimacy and institutional strengthening.”
Angela Merkel’s immediate response to the referendum result, 24th June 2016: “Today is a watershed moment for Europe, and it is a watershed moment for the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS. There is no doubt that this is a blow to Europe, and to the EUROPEAN UNIFICATION PROCESS.”
EU Rome Declaration, 25th March 2017: “Working towards COMPLETING the ECONOMIC and monetary UNION” (with a preferred deadline for completion of 2027).
ECB’s ‘Fiscal Implications of the EU Recovery Package’ 2020. “The way that the EU has responded to the crisis also has implications for the future design and implementation of the EUROPEAN GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK. First, while expansionary fiscal policy is necessary to sustain the recovery, going forward it will be important for the fiscal rules to effectively support the reduction of high government debt in good economic times. Second, NGEU constitutes a new and innovative element of the EUROPEAN FISCAL FRAMEWORK. It will result in the issuance of sizeable supranational debt over the coming years, and its establishment has signalled a political readiness to design a common fiscal tool when the need arises. This innovation, while a one-off, could also imply lessons for ECONOMIC and Monetary UNION, which still lacks a PERMANENT FISCAL CAPACITY AT SUPRANATIONAL LEVEL for macroeconomic stabilisation in deep crises. The review of the ECONOMIC GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK, which was launched by the Commission in February 2020 and postponed because of the pandemic, provides a GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO INCORPORATE THESE IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS.” (NGEU stands for “Next Generation European Union”).
From the EU’s own website: “Once the economic and financial crisis (of 2008/9) was overcome, the EU established a process aimed at reinforcing the architecture of EMU (ECONOMIC and monetary UNION). The process is based on the Five Presidents’ Report on Completing Europe’s Economic and Monetary Union of 2015, which focused on four main issues:
• A genuine ECONOMIC UNION;
• A FINANCIAL UNION;
• A FISCAL UNION;
• A POLITICAL UNION.
These four unions are STRICTLY INTER-RELATED and would develop in parallel. The report was followed by a series of communications, proposals and measures, and the discussion is still ongoing.”
In 2022 all member states reaffirmed their commitment to economic union, as part of Lisbon Treaty Article 3.
2. THE EU’S MILITARY INTENTIONS
Lisbon Treaty Article 42.3: “Member states shall make civilian and MILITARY capabilities available to the Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy, to contribute to the objectives DEFINED BY THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL.”
The EU’s military headquarters is the Kortenberg Building in Brussels.
The EU Global Strategy, 30th June 2016, issued exactly one week after the referendum, contains the right of the EU’s military “to act autonomously (of NATO) if and when necessary”.
It will need this, because, as you should know, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the defence of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still under attack when it joins the EU, it will be the EU which is at war with Russia, not NATO. The defence of Ukraine doesn’t trigger the NATO charter.
On 19th February 2019 Federica Mogherini told an audience in Hamburg: “... all the way through the security spectrum, up to the military operations, because not so many know that the European Union has seventeen deployed missions and operations around the world. So, together, we are already a unique global security provider.” I checked this figure recently. It now stands at twenty-one.
On 23rd April 2019 the European Council issued its Military Command and Control Structures document, outlining its military command structure over member states’ land, sea and air forces. The diagram contained within reappears on the Wikipedia page for the Kortenberg Building, above.
In September 2021 Ursula Von der Leyen said this: “But what we need is the European Defence Union. In the last weeks there have been many discussions on expeditionary forces. On what type and how many we need: battlegroups or EU entry forces. This is no doubt part of the debate - and I believe it will be part of the solution. But the more fundamental issue is why this has not worked in the past. You can have the most advanced forces in the world - but if you are never prepared to use them - of what use are they?”
Last year the EU led joint military exercises in Spain. This is taken from the EU’s CSDP website: “The two-part MILEX 23 exercise commenced on 18 September and concluded on 22 October. The first part of this intense period was a 3-week planning phase by the MPCC in Brussels. In part two, this culminated in the EU’s first ever live military exercise from 16 - 22 October in Rota Naval Base, Cadiz, Spain. During Part 2, an EU Battlegroup-sized force carried out the Operational Plan developed by the MPCC in Part 1. Overall, 19 Member States contributed to MILEX 23.”
(CSDP = Common Security and Defence Policy. MPCC = Military Planning and Conduct Capability).
3. Reckless EU expansionism across Eastern Europe - widely known and reported on, including Albania (hotbed of gangsterism and corruption), Serbia and Montenegro (both traditional allies of Russia), Moldova (part of it coveted by Russia), Ukraine (currently at war with Russia), Turkey (instantly the largest, most populous and poorest country in the EU upon joining) and several others, all of which will bring nothing but a begging bowl to the EU’s table. Oh, except for Ukraine, because, as above, Lisbon Treaty Article 42 commits member states to the military aid of a member under attack. So if Ukraine is still at war upon its accession the EU will be at war with Russia.
4. Unfettered migration into Europe from North Africa and the Middle East (the free movement of people was a secret part of the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership, in effect since 2010, and signed between the EU and Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Israel, the Palestine Authority, Lebanon, Syria and Turkey). “Eurocrats do not consider (migration) to be a problem, but rather as a project”: Fabrice Leggeri, former Director of the European Border and Coastguard Agency (Frontex).
All this has been going on while you’ve been asleep for the last fifteen years.
@@SJG-nr8uj You must be Farage in disguise. Or maybe Ann Widdecombe.
They were told time and time again, so no excuses really. Being misinformed isn’t an excuse these days when research tools are at one’s disposal 24/7! Sorry!!!!
The EU is a giant, duplicitous, megalomaniac scam.
THE EU’S DUPLICITY
1. The European Constitution rewritten as the Lisbon Treaty.
2. The unification of member states’ armed forces under command of the European Council.
3. Cameron’s bogus opt-outs.
4. The euro and Schengen lined up for us in the event of a Remain victory.
5. Theresa may and the Customs Union
6. Meddling in British politics post-referendum
7. The move to QMV and the abolition of national vetoes
8. Meddling in Polish politics.
9. The Islamification of Europe, orchestrated by the EU.
10. European federalism.
Which one would you like to discuss first?
Liz half my family back in Ireland are livestock farmers in Co Donegal. My uncle and myself have talked about brexit generally at length and obviously also specifically about how it would affect things. My uncle told me that he new a few farmers in the north that were pro brexit, and he could only shake his head at the madness of it all.
The thing is though you, along with a lot of people over here in the uk, have this blindspot that the EU want to renegotiate a new deal with the UK after all that hassle with Westminster showing time and again how willing it was to engage in perfidious behaviour, in-which their word cant be trusted. Plus, and this is the kicker, the EU has a weak and dysfunctional UK by the balls and can continue to make some serious euros as they export food increasingly to the uk. Why give up this hard earned brexit benefit and be able to squeeze the juice as much as they can?
No chance that will happen. The writing’s on the wall now Im afraid. Quite why you arent calling for leading self serving brexiters head ill never know.
Maybe grown medical cannibis and be ready for when its legalised? Beats working for pennies from the supermarket Lord Sainsburys
I do feel sorry for you and your uncle (family) . I don't get that so many ppl that have a company are not more interested in politics , since if those suits vote in laws that have impact on your business it has a direct effect.
We have a whale watching boat in Scotland and with 60% of our customers from the EU, I never would vote to leave but farmers that sold 60% food to the EU did. On top of that so many had EU workers and received grands from the EU, so no i can't feel sorry for those farmers that voted to leave.
Even for fisherman i have more sympathy since the false promise about taking controle over the sea had a better ring , but most where we are from didn't believe it and second they also had an EU crew since not many Scots want that job.
What also resulted that Scotland like N-Ireland voted remain but still was forced to jump of the cliff.
Its the English obsession with retaining the "Britannia rules the waves" mentality, that is, a hankering for the lost Empire and refusal to accept that it is gone for ever. As has a massive Navy. The one nation Tories of the mid 1960/70s knew very well that not engaging in Europe was fatal for the UK.
So, anyone is to blame for Brexit, except for the farmers? This is so pathetic
I am bored of their blame game and the oneness of their derogatary one liners, I expect they will also get bored of it all sooner or later.
@@edwardbernthal160But you have seen, time and time again, that the EU is 100% to blame for us leaving the European Union. If they had listened to the French and Dutch electorates in 2005 and abandoned their intention of a federal European state, we would still have been in it, and it would be what you eejits think it is, a harmless, benign, trading bloc.
Meanwhile, its federalism is current, active and ongoing. if you think the EU is the same as when we left, you're living in cloud-cuckoo-land.
Maybe if farmers didn’t drink expensive coffee and avocado on toast and budget better, they wouldn’t be in this trouble lol
Took a trip from Kent to Cornwall in 2016, all I saw in the fields was leave, how many farmers vote Tory . If they vote Tory they are equally to blame.
First of all, it doesn't matter if you work on a farm or own property, it's about the farming community. Secondly, citing the fact that so many Brexit voters have died is also not valid, then you would have to hold a referendum every five years and believe me, if the European Union had done that after the UK joined the EU, they would could not have lasted almost fifty years in the EU because after six years the trouble started with rebaits and exemptions. so you can't use that as an excuse. Secondly, most British farmers voted to leave the EU because they were fed up with the pesky EU rules, remember that?? the only thing the English farmers had in mind was to get away from the EU rules, do what we like and sell well to the EU countries. Now that the kite doesn't fly, they're whining. How did you think you would earn the average amount of sixty to eighty thousand euros in subsidies that you received from the EU?
I'm very curious
No compassion whatsoever.not now, not ever. I do admire and immensely respect the lady from the clip though
Are farmers on the rejoin marches and waving their EU flags Liz? All I see is them moaning about supermarkets and Net Zero policies. It’s only you that campaigns to rejoin as far as I can see.
I think you made some good points, but I also think you're being a bit biased towards farmers - which is understandable I suppose.
People aren't thinking about the deeper issues. Most people never see a whole pig or cow - the nearest they ever get is bits of them in supermarkets. The one thing they DO remember is seeing those massive billboards in farmers fields though, especially younger people, as it was in festival season, so they were travelling all over for Glastonbury and such like. I saw a lot of them myself.
Maybe when we've gotten rid of the damn tories and things genuinely do start to improve we may be able to move on, but at the moment I think it's too soon. People are starting to look for someone to blame and while it should be directed at the tories and the liars, they have the media to help them get away with it. Farmers don't - and we all remember those billboards . . .
Imagine being a farmer and trying to sound as posh as Liz Webster. I was and still am against Brexit - but she's not on the side of the people, she's solely on the side of her family's inheritance. The entire West Country laughs at buffoons like this for a reason.
Thanks for thinking I’m posh! I’m actually from a travelling fairground family and descended from a Heinz variety of immigrants.
It's eau past time that you farmers admitted that all those huge bill boards were actually wrong. Now you are whinging and trying to pretend you have no responsibility for the mess we are in. Bill boards in most farms here and farmers who still claim brexit is great, its just been done wrong, not hard enough. Like I said, time to fess up and take some responsibility for empowering the likes of Mogg and Johnson!
I am very supportive of farmers, mostly because they are treated badly by the supermarkets and the British public by and large prefer cheap food to ethical food production.
I have to say though, I live on the borderline between Somerset and Dorset and around 2016 many fields in my area had huge UKIP banners, union jacks and whole fence lines of ‘vote Brexit’ placards. In the West Country the cities voted to remain and the rural areas voted to leave.
so what, how does that get the UK farmers back on their feet. It's not history lessons the UK needs right now, it is plans for the future.
@@edwardbernthal160 lessons need learned. i dont see or hear any humility.
@@robbiegrant4977 do you hear humility from Sunak, Farage any other leave voters. But what does it matter, it's history how people voted and of no use to anybody.
@@edwardbernthal160 - the EU will not waste their time talking to the UK if they do not show some sign of remorse or contrition....
@@trevormj and how does your comment help save BF?
The NFU backed the Conservatives (fascists) and Brexit ...let them rot in their own incompetence..
the NFU were not in favour of Brexit, or am I mistaken? Who told you that they were for Brexit?
@@edwardbernthal160 Indeed they weren't.. _"Farmers' interests are best served by remaining in the European Union, the National Farmers' Union has said. It passed a resolution following an overwhelming vote in favour of staying in the EU"_ - The Guardian, 18th April 2016
It's notable that, in 2016, the NFU had 55,000 members, out of 130,000 farmers UK-wide. Therefore, given that the majority weren't in the union, it's fair to assume that they'd tend to be more conservative. So maybe the Tory-voting, non-NFU farmers were most likely to vote Leave.
That might explain a lot, as most estimates I've heard suggest that between 57-60% of farmers voted Leave, and 75,000 of 130,000 is... 58%. Coincidence?
@@ftumschk so James is wrong and a lot of farmers voted wrongly but whatever, punishing the good or the bad is not going to help the UK farmers. The UK has already shot itself in the foot by leaving, destroying farming will be another shot in the foot.
@@edwardbernthal160 I said nothing about "punishing" anybody. I'm interested in who voted Leave and why they did so. Without such an understanding, it's harder to put things right.
@@ftumschk what nonsense, how is finding out how some voted going to fix anything. Go grind your axe some other place, Liz is about saving BF not a history page.
You reap what you sow.
Oh wow, you should copywrite that, that is so brilliant.
Now U.K. is in full control - so all the problem is only U.K. government responsibility - Even Fartage agrees
No one else to blame.
Brexit is done - there is no reversing it - just adapt and protest
Liz: A pre-BRexit poll in _Farmers' Weekly_ (April 2016) showed farmers were going to vote 58% _for_ BRexit and 31% for remaining. I suspect that's where the figure came from.
It would appear that farmers are conflating Brexit with supermarket buy in prices and rewilding. They need to make up their minds what the real problem is. If it's Brexit that is the main issue (and I suspect it is) then say so because otherwise it just lets the Brexiters off the hook.
There are other issues as well as Brexit. Supermarket domination has been an issue for decades.
@@lizwebstersbf Well one journalist seemed to use that to conflate the issue in your interview with him....sorry and thanks for all your efforts.
Tell me about it!. The power of the "Big Four" over their supply chain is real and damaging.@@lizwebstersbf
I think it's you that's muddled. We're very aware that retailers control prices.
@@lizwebstersbf And who exactly did the farmers vote for to get that issue solved ?
Farmers, like most industries, were sold brexit on the offer of deregulation so that more profit can be made at the cost of ecosystems.
It’s now being shown that regulatory standards (supported by the tax payer) are the last bastion of maintaining good prices for their produce, because without regulation/quality standards ‘the market’ will always drive supply up and thus price down.
So the farms fail and the land is bought by carbon traders, hedge funds, and ultimately non-Brits. It’s financialised occupation. Then those disgruntled farmers shift politically further right and the nastiest most crooked politicians gain those votes.
But British fish is happy fish 😂
Scotland has little say on the uk choices. 8 % of the vote. . Only twice since ww2 have Scottish votes ( helped) decide uk government - 1966 and 1974
There will be no “next vote” Im afraid. There is many reasons for that, none of which have to do with what is overall best for Britain. No, it has to do with a very tiny group of businesses and wealthy individuals for whom it’s much better to remain outside EU. Although it’s a tiny minority, they have bought themselves into the political decision making processes, why a 2nd vote will never pass the House of Commons. Sad, but that’s the times we live in….
There is absolutely no chance of re-joining so calm down. The EU will be toast within a couple of years of economic union. The EU wants economic union complete by 2027.
I used to drive to deliver to farms around the country, and as someone who saw the folly of Brexit I received a lot of ridicule from farmers ( not all, but most) It caused me problems at work with my employers. Farmers enjoy a very privileged position in commerce - few industrial companies get the support from the public purse as farming get - yet do we get farming giving access etc. Some farmers are very decent people, but others were very arrogant and treated me a lowly lorry driver with contempt, inspite of my experiences trucking to the european mainland.
It's not that I'm vengeful so much about the way they voted, its the plain distain I recieved during the run up to the vote from a large section of the community that still stings.
Food security - why didn't they think that before the vote - no most voted in the belief of lining their own pockets and to the hell with blokes like me and my family - yes my family were included in some of the rants - and I'm not the only one.
The farming commumity shot its bolt over brexit - it's lost a good bit of good will it had before. Don't expect public support for subsidies any time soon. The farming community has got a big pr job on its hands to persuade the public that it is one of us rather than the "them".
I agree - it's doesn't matter how we got into this Brexit mess. It's here, we have to learn from it, and seek our way out of this mess.
Most brexit supporters dismissed all criticism as PROJECT FEAR. "The most beautiful sentence in the English language is 'I told you so' " - Gore Vidal
Nobody is going to feel sympathy for the farmers or fishermen anymore. They campaigned for Brexit, They voted for Brexit, They got Brexit.
A bit rich from her, telling remainers to stop the holy than thou. It was their greed that prompted them to vote leave.
Farmers are important people, we would stave without them!
I really hope that after Labour win the oncoming General Election, they form a seriously good relationship with farmers, and create sensible policies for the benefit the farmers livelihood and supportive working criteria for excellent healthy food for our future.
Agree 100%. Closer ties with Europe too.
The problem with that is that it is a policy for more expensive food.
@@huginnmuninn2155 The problem isn't 'expensive food' the problem is too cheap food. people are eating cheap chicken twice a day every day. Billions of chickens are suffering as a result. Previous to the Americanisation of food, people ate a lot of vegetables and meat was seen as a luxury, and good quality. You can't justify a £1.20 burger, with fries and a coke. It costs more to produce than they sell it for. Unless you buy low quality ingredients from countries with factory farms and peasant labour.
It’s a shame the English farmers aren’t as boisterous as their Europeans colleagues who seem to be far better holding their politicians to account……
Politicians here also listen .
Thanks for sharing this information, Liz. Time for another referendum! 😮
Relax. There is no chance of rejoining the EU. The EU will be toast soon after economic union, and the EU wants economic union complete by 2027.
In the Netherlands, 7 of the 150 parliamentary seats are for the farmers' party. Therefor they have a key position.
If English farmers vote against their interests, is it their own fault or is there no alternative?
This is just an observation, but as a Dutch person who likes to listen read English books ( and listens to English audiobooks before sleeping ), I do notice a lot of ' E.U regulation complaining and blaming ' between the lines of almost every story that's set in rural communities .No matter the genre. It's often mentioned casually, just a few lines by some fictional farmer or the narrator. So I guess there was an underlying discontent that's been lingering for so long, it became a stereo typical'farmer ' trope for many writers.
Liz! You’re so correct. Move on and help to get the situation sorted. For food. For farmers. For people.
I personally don't think that it is remotely positive that we continue to discuss how farmers voted in the referendum. Its history and the UK is out of the EU and all what that entails. If the farmers current issues what seem to be: 1. How food is coming into the UK and undermining UK farmer's livelihoods and 2. How the power of the supermarkets is adversely affecting them. The farmers might be better off concentrating their minds on these two issues alone. What seems to be obvious is that the UK farmers are not a greatly cohesive group and just like the workers found themselves during the Industrial Revolution led to nowhere as far as solving their grievances were concerned. Hence the formation of strong unions.
Debating who voted for what? will only harm your nation.
Especially the vote in 2016, as there were elections in both 2017 and 2019 that decided the course.
What you ought to discuss, though, is _Who was propagating for what?_
People who don't know better have no other choice than to listen to people they believe they can trust.
People, eg "townies", thought they could trust farmers and fishermen to know what was best for the nation.
Others trusted unions.
Turns out they were wrong.
This means that people now must find someone else to trust. Who might that be?
There was a poll in 2018 done by Farmers Weekly (577 farmers): 58% Leave, 31% Remain. (It's the very 1st link Google will give you.) I assume that may be the source? (If so, it might indeed be skewed; if the poll was done among the readers then these numbers do not refer to _farmers_ per se, just to a selected subset of them.)
I simply cannot understand why so many (not all) farmers voted for Brexit. They had pretty much everything they wanted, but threw it all away. Even the NFU advised them to vote Remain, but they ignored them. Until they start campaigning to rejoin the EU in their droves, I just won’t be able to forgive them - sorry Liz.
Not to worry. If the farmers go bankrupt they can always burn those huge 'Vote Leave' signs they had in their fields to keep warm next winter.
Difficult to find a Leave voter who's proud of what they did and their choice apart from the Wetherspoons guy, UKiP/BNP/neo Cons and a few snarling thugs. Its no surprise that farmers are also disowning their decision to vote leave, particularly when it hurts them.
I never saw a single poster posted by farmers in fields and on motorway bridges that said no.. farmers thought, no doubt, that being out of the eu meant they would get better prices for their produce.. or something. Either that or they were gammon, I suppose
There should be no compassion for pig ignorance. They were told Brexit would be a disaster, but they and the wider UK electorate voted for it anyway. You lot won, get over it.
Are we so far down the road of desperation that we're looking around for groups and categories of people to blame?
Farmers who voted for Brexit on the word of people like Farage, Rees-Mogg and Johnson were gullible and naive but I shall reserve any judgment until the results of the next GE and the outcome on all rural constituencies. Let's see how many Conservative MP's are elected in those areas and how many vote Reform, believing the Widdecombe line that Brexit could be better if they'd only done it properly.
Farmers, of all people, should know, what you sow, you reap. No sympathy and no forgiveness.
Brexit was so disastrous and depressing and it still is, unfortunately I don't think the EU wants us, a belligerent ex member to rejoin
@vietashroffoliver2521 OK - but I am delighted with Brexit. Best decision we ever made.
@@dogglebird4430 yes, I guess you and some others still feel good to disunite with your neighbours. I'm sure you have your reasons just as I have mine. I love my neighbours
@@vietashroffoliver2521 I am delighted that we have returned to the situation whereby those in continental Europe are back to being neighbours and we are no longer subject to what is in reality a supra-national government. I speak four European languages (I'm an academic linguist) I lived much of my life in Sweden and Denmark - and I have family in the former. My issue is not with our neighbours across the Channel, but with the power-hungry monster in Brussels. The EU should be disbanded and replaced with a simple trade bloc along the lines of NAFTA or even the CPTPP.
@@dogglebird4430 ok you have a valid argument
Farmers were instrumentalized that is true - but where were the farmers demonstration to support Europe at the time ?
Didn’t see many tractors in London displaying EU flags - did you ?
Yes, although they are not the only ones to blame!
“Blame them Bill.”
“Blame them!”😃
Advocating Remain in the farming community would have meant to defend the EU CAP, the most detested of all EU regimes. Not even the most committed remainers dared to go there. No one understood (and still very few do today) that protectionism serves to protect.
Farmers are farmers, even in EU they do not realize how lucky they are with all the EU subsidies they get. No sympathy for them.
Food subsidies benefit consumers.
@@lizwebstersbf not at all ! Just import food outside UK and EU, its is cheaper for the consumers !!! Subsidies are just here to help the farmers to survive because they are not competitive !
@@lizwebstersbf no they don't, they reinforce crap farmers, stifle innovation and artificially inflate land prices to the point that no-one except subsidised farmers can afford it, preventing anyone else putting that land to better use.
I totally agree with Liz’s closing statement: let’s move on and sort this mess out
I don't think we get anywhere blaming people for how they voted in a dodgy referendum 8 years ago. The reality is we are out and need to make Brexit work. From my perspective that probably looks like creeping ever closer to the EU because they are our largest market and the one our supply chains are optimised to use.
THE FARMING AS NEVER PAYED IN THE LAST 100YEARS IF EVER.
Where I live in Cumbria most corners had vote Brexit signings in the fields adjacent the road. Why do farmers need sympathy except be careful what you vote for. If they are crying now they can’t say they weren’t warned. I feel sorry for all of us who were affected by this lunacy.