Man your tank speaks for itself and for what you are doing . For anyone who would state anything other than what you are doing shouldnpost a picture or keep silent
A lot of opinions online, I don’t mind the dialogue. There are definitely people who think their way is the best way ever and the only right way… I think they should prove their results. I’ve never seen someone say online. “Wow thanks for engaging in that long argument. I changed my mind now.” Haha
@Christopher Walker not sure i agree. Patience is not a method its a requirement. Like fishing you need patient but also you need a rod a reel experience and knowledge.
I can’t tell how how much this video resonates with my experience and research. My tank doesn’t have a high number of fish and for nearly a year my no3 and po4 were bottomed out. Quantum reef amino’s helped bring back colour but still some corals bleach and declined All LPS and softies in my tank. Rather than feed heaps and dirty the tank I started dosing calcium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate to get my levels up. Today I started dosing a DIY Nopox mix to increase bacteria in the system to feed the corals. Your tank is an inspiration and I’ve subbed!
Just starting my first reef tank after some years in the freshwater hobby. And your channel speaks so much to me in terms of aquascaping and learning about the difference in chemistry between the two! Looking forward to more videos! :D Cheers
Ive been successfully dosing nitrates the past 6 months in my 40gl mixed reef. I lose around 1.5-2 ppm daily. Ive found, in my own system, that shooting for 10pm and allowing it to fall towards 5 works best. The more you look at your own tank and really connect with each animal, the more you can start to see how parameters impact their health. I can always tell if my nitrates are dropping under 5 as the colors are all washed. I also struggle to keep my phosphates above zero and have found that daily dosing of some reef foods like Red Sea AB+ helps prevent full bottom outs... not ideal but works for now until I come up with a more reliable solution. Im also running no gfo. Great video and interesting topic looking forward to more content. Beautiful tank btw.
I think 10-5 is best too. I find any higher around 20ppm and green becomes very intense. It sometimes overpowers other colours too. For many that’s not a bad thing. The green could also be linked to iron and other trace metals
Hey man! I was wondering what type of lighting you have behind your tank? Absolutely one of the best setups I have seen, nice to see aquascaping taken seriously in the reef community! Super inspiring for my first tank
Great video. Well explained 👏 I've been doing the same, adding very little 2ppm nitrate every few weeks. As nitrates sitting at 5ppm phosphates always trying to head down to zero from 0.02, I'm adding elos phosphate 4ppm every 3 days to keep this at 0.02ppm. Testing now with the smart tester by reeffactory as super accurate.My gonipora likes a little dirty water and struggle when lower levels.
I aim to keep 5-10 ppm nitrate and .05 -0.1 po4. I would try not to let them fluctuate and stay as stable as possible. That is where experience comes in and it gets a little more advanced. It is easy to keep alkalinity, calcium and magnesium stable but the nutrients can fluctuate on more factors in the system such as feeding, livestock behavior changes, bacteria population shifts etc. Rather than carbon dosing another method is frequently dosing bottled bacteria too and that way you know you are over competing any nuisance bacteria/algae that would also feed on the nutrients. Good video and info.
Excellent explanation, I have a 70 gallon tank and when the NO3 was around 25 ppm and low PO4 the colours of my SPS and Zoas were bright, vibrant and gorgeously fluorescent. In order to bring the nutrients down I started dosing Vodka/Vinegar and have tons of chaeto and around 15 kgs of bio ceramic rings in my sump. Currently at 5 ppm NO3 and absolutely undetectable PO4 some of my SPS are looking very dull and washed out and some Zoas have shrunk and stay half open 😪😥😪 I guess I have to start dosing these nutrients asap.
Thank you for this, very insightful. I always thought the high nutrient in and high nutrient out method just doesn't seem efficient, alot of waste happens. It's like..we wouldn't throw alot of fertiliser over a plant and then clean up the excess, we understand what works and feed enough that will yield the best growth. Maybe the reefing game will evolve to that stage. Very educational though, I didn't even know about potassium importance
On top of this, love the use of -np pro for reducing nitrates. Bacteria..this feels like what nature would do. I am going to test this. Really like aquaforest stuff
I started in saltwater with a cannister filter and switched to Sump, largely so I could hide all the stuff. Frankly, just couldn’t find a guide such as this, I may have stuck with canister. Can you please do videos on aquascaping? That’s really your forte and no one else comes anywhere close to you in terms of skill.
Wondering where you went. No new videos or comments for a whiles. Also, if you are still around, how do you manage to keep pH within normal range with carbon dosing and without a skimmer? I’m surprised you’re macro algae can grow on such a small bio load with carbon dosing as well.
Great stuff - yeah I carbon dose (Tropic Marin) and think it's the way to go. Problem is my nitrates got way too high (20+) whilst my PO4 was almost zero (probably from aminos). I want a ration of about 100 or 200 NO3:PO4 - not 2000. Also I had added a few more fish and now NO3 is out of control (40) and my PO4 is 0.07 - so I'm carbon dosing more. I think because I have a Hipoppus clam I thought it was really cleaning the water. Also I only run my skimmer (oversized) for 8 hours at night but once you get behind its not great. I have also found in the past that doing more than a 10% water change was destabilizing. Anyhow I think frozen has more PO4 so I will feed more of that and I've stopped aminos for the moment and have upped my carbon dosing. It would be good to know what foods, additives increases PO4 and NO3 I also think it's better to manage nutrients with food over straight PO4 and NO3 - it's not as precise but I think you encourage a better ecosystem and then on top additives can help (like I often dose a little PO4 just to keep it off zero).
Excelente video, congrats on your superb aquarium, really inspiring me to get back to the hobby. Now my question: it seems to me that the room where the aquarium is at do not get much sun light and probably has its temperature well under control. You do not use an auto top off, how do you control salinity? Thanks in advance and congrats again.
Hi Mike, great videos! Could someone explain the rationale / science behind the high import and high export approach to nutrients? Sure, if you have a high bio-load it makes sense that you need high export to manage that. But if you have a low bio-load, why add nutrients to then remove those nutrients? I get that high import & high export may more closely replicate natural seawater (with coral reefs getting flows of nutrient rich water which quickly then gets taken up). But I'm not inclined to assume that what happens in nature is necessarily best for corals or makes sense in a home aquarium. I think high import, high export implies that what is best for corals is constantly changing nutrient levels (1. high nutrients go into the system, 2. some nutrients are taken up by corals and algae and 3. the rest you want to quickly export) rather than a stable level of nutrients (consistently add nutrients to achieve your desired N&P levels in the same way as you add Calcium etc.) Can anyone clarify why this approach makes sense? Thanks!
I certainly can but I think the guys at BRS do those better than I do, they did a whole series on nutrient. But the idea is that we try to mimic ocean conditions of low nutrient but unfortunately we don’t have food abundance like the ocean. So heavy food in, heavy export out mimics that to some extent.
You are on point the corals need that phosphates but its hard for them to get it but the bacteria consumes the phosphates and the corals consume them with the phosphates they ate my nitrates be at 10-20ppm and the corals are colorful and growing nuts people with clean systems shooting there self in the foot let the corals remove the nitrate and phosphates by there selves!!!
This is so awesome to see, and what a goal tank to strive for! I may have missed this in the long list of comments, but are you dosing sodium or potassium nitrate? Do you ever see a buildup of either ion over time that may cause issues? I myself like many others are trying to find the right "balance" of nutrients using approachable methods, and this is the most compelling I've stumbled across.
Thats a good question. I dosed KNO3 and saw a build up of potassium for sure. I then switched to CaNO3 which was good and had minimal impact on calcium. I couldn't get large quantities the other type since it is used for other uses.
Hey thanks! Did a lot do the livestock come from some of your other systems? The aquascape and presentation really is stunning (incase nobody has told you lol). Do you have and Instagram or build threads if your setups? I would like to know more of about your long term approach to keeping this system in good shape in the coming years. Maybe that’s not even your plan. That’s crazy diversity and density for 6 months old. I’m just thinking out loud. Let me know if you’ve got other platforms
You know what’s crazy? I’ve been in the hobby for quite a while and I have never heard someone talk about no3 and po4 in terms of usage per day. It’s totally logical though! Is this something you have found to be consistent? For example if you say you use 2ppm per day does that mean would measure 10ppm day 1. 8ppm day 2. 6ppm days 3, 4ppm day 3. Etc? Or have you found usage is different when you’re at 10ppm then it is if you are at 3ppm? Sorry, TH-cam is not the best platform for discussion…
I’ve always wondered the same thing. Can acros survive only dosing nitrate and phosphate without fish or do they need the nutrients from fish food or poop.
Maybe for a short while, but eventually there will be deficiencies. There are many other micro nutrients that the zooxanthellae need so you will want to add another product that includes these. Its easier just to feed with something like Kent Microvert though IMO. Iodine is also extremely important. I surprised he didn't mention it here.
Nice work Mike I like your theory and it makes sense on the import/export of nutrients. How did you work out that your system is -2ppm nitrates etc. I’m guessing it was a test not feeding for 24hrs then another test to work it out? Or you did it with feeding included. How do you work out how much feeding the fish is adding to the system? What are you using for the testing just standard test kits.
That is a good question. I fed normally for 3 days without any N or P dosing and checked the difference. I then continued measuring for another 3 days no dosing of N and P. Keep feeding as normal. If you see N and P fall you know the fish and food are not producing enough. I used a Hanna phosphorus ULR and Nyos and Aquaforest nitrate kit. Salifer is too difficult to read. I was able to confirm my po4 with ICP.
I think its imortant to add that there are many other micro nutrients that come from fish waste that are needed, so without fish, you will need more than the what is mentioned here, particularly Iodine. There are plenty of options for this, but it should be included if going this rout. Also, I don't agree with the delay argument for fish waste. The reason being is that if you are continuously feeding, then you will have continuous nutrients from the fish waste so the delay is nullified in the long run. You could argue that it builds up detritus in the sand though.
Hi mike. Great video. My current reading now is nitrate 1 and Phos at 0.1. I have a 120 gal mixed rreef. I am using a GFO , running throughout the day. Do you think I should discontinue using the gfo? Do you use gfo? Thank you
I use gfo to remove silicates to control diatom. Your best bet is to monitor your corals. 0.1ppm phosphate is ok. A bit high for some. Unless you mean 0.01. Then I would dose a little. You should keep the GFO 0.1 since it may go up beyond that threshold if you remove it.
I guess once the system gets into a rhythm, the delay is no longer a thing. The one possible delay in nutrient build up is if the food or waste does not get cleaned out of the system. That is what Dissolved organic compounds (doc) increases and that is harder to measure. We have NDOC testing I guess.
It’s not an automated setup, I just squirt a little frequently. Instead of one whole cube once a day. But now you got me thinking! I think I can automate it!
You can use any type of NO3. I use AF liquid mysis (that contains N and feeds fish and corals) and AF Nitro boost, but you can also use KNO3, CANO3 or NANO3 salts. I found corals respond better to organic forms like liquid mysis for polyp extension, all my cynatina go massive and, KNO3 works quick to colour up corals. (probably due to the K)
Thanks Paul - Haha I am far from it, even my system goes through up and downs, browning/bleaching and growth. I wish I could keep every coral happy and alive forever. Though I don't know a single seasoned reefer who has never had a coral die in their system. We are getting better these days though... Thanks to you and your knowledge too.
I’ve been carbon dosing with Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance. I’ve got myself into an issue where I have my phosphates where I want them but Nitrate is bottomed out to 0. Thoughts on additional nitrate dosing along with my carbon dosing?
Dosing po4 and no3 eliminates dos from foods. That’s how it works. I noticed you were trying to explain it. The dissolved organic from food dosing is what you really don’t want
You are right! In my system DOCs cannot be removed as efficiently as a skimmer or fleece roller. I still feed quite heavily as my fish are getting quite fat. So need to find a nice middle ground.
The -np pro is used to keep bacteria population healthy. This helps to feed the corals and the side effect is nutrient reduction. :) I will keep dosing this periodically but not for nutrient control.
@@Mikeymikemike never thought of it that way. I tried the nopox and dose po4 and no3 route and felt like I was pouring in one to handle the other and went back to keeping low nitrates and lower pho’s and seemed to get the same results after six months. Maybe I didn’t bottom out low enough and dose high enough to see Amy changes
In need of advice dosing. With regards to nitrate dosing. Does it matter what time of day to dose? Reason I ask is because I run chaeto in my refugium and I'm thinking if I dose it while refugium light is on the cheato will absorb the nitrates before the corals maybe? So should I dose when refugium lights are off?
good point, I dose in the morning and the chaeto seem to absorb the rest of it. I'm thinking of removing the chaeto on my system but it seems to offer other benefits such as ph stability so for now it stays
@@Mikeymikemike it's a nice advantage having the ph stability aspect. I'm gonna experiment and auto dose nitrates just as the refugium light switches off. If there's excess cheato can take it at night (reverse light cycle). Now my mind is dwelling on trace elements dosing in the same scenario aswell ?It's like picking who you want to feed first lol. I could be over thinking lol
@@jaredemmanuelganesan7623 I know what it is like to over think it haha. One thing you must know is that an increase in nitrate requires an equal portion of phosphate otherwise P can drop very fast and cause damage. It happened to my robusta and others have experienced this. maybe try manual dosng for now until you know a known dose for a month.
@@Mikeymikemike hahaha I am a former high tech planted guy. So perfection comes naturally I guess. That's some important things to consider there with regards to phosphate. Very interesting information. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Looking forward to future videos.
@@Mikeymikemike thank you very much 🙏 Anyway, my hoby is aquascape from long time and I feel try to marine tank will be lots of interesting. I very interested of your channel about reef tank with canister filter, wich that SPS is very difficult about keep the water parameters. Give me and other people how to grow your SPS with canister (filtration), how to maintain, how to dosing, lighting, water parameter, temperature, etc.. Very very love your tank. 👍
Quite interesting view, Mike! I've always read about people carbon dosing AND using a skimmer to remove the bacteria in order to reduce nitrates and phosphates. I can see a lot of your Nature Aquarium background in this video :)
Constantly run it, it’s for Silicates, not Po4 in my case, I have a po4 deficit so I need to dose it. Eventually you can remove it too if you have enough sponges and squirts to take care of silicates or a really efficient RoDi unit.
@@Mikeymikemike Thank you for the reply. I'm coming from the planted tank side and want to create something like what you have except with easier corals. Your setup is so clean and well done.
Hi, nice Video again :) But what I have to add is: if you dose anorganic nitrogen (AN), you actually do the same as fish do. The difference is, the AN that the fishes are producing is waste made of organic nitrogen (ON) in form of ammonium (NH4). And NH4 is the chemical bond we need for our corals. Because corals can only transform NH4 into AN like aminoacids. So nitrate needs to get reduced to NH4 before its useable. That takes alot of energy. So in the end, your question: "is it better to dose AN or ON", is kinda obsolete ;) And btw. any Nitrogen bonded on a carbon atom is classified as ON :) What I dont get here is: If u need to perma dose nutrients because your system got such an high demand on it, why are u still running GFO and Zeolith? What is the actual point :D I hope I was understandable. I am not a native speaker. So forgive me some grammar fails I did here :D
Excellent! I think it is good to have a system that returns to baseline like the reefs do. Nutrient rich waters come and go. Food comes and goes. In our aquariums we need to make nutrients available for the corals but not hang around long enough for it to become available to algae. This is the reason why you see I have cleaner glass and no algae on rocks or sand. Also, corals that are healthy from a scientific standpoint are actually a brown sps. Most papers focus on healthy sps as brown sps. In our aquariums we are chasing better colour so the goal is a little different. Higher po4 also restricts calcification of coral skeleton. Finally, lower po4 is good for colouration as it reduces excessive zoox. It’s a balance of enough po4 for health and colour but not too much the coral gets brown. If bacteria does a super efficient job, I will keep the zeolite for bio media. The gfo also has a secondary function to remove silicates from water. So that is why I will keep them. I can remove it and maybe it will be ok. Thank you and your comment is perfectly understandable :)
@@Mikeymikemike Ok I got you :) You want the nutrients to stay as short as possible in the water column. Thats an interesting approach. And yes I have seen some observation tanks in a research group of my University in Germany, few years ago. Students had to water blast these tanks every week. Thats something you realy dont want in your living room :D These ones are mostly running at high nutrients levels to imitate a high level of available zooplankton. In Australia they can just flood the tanks with sea water from the nearby coast. However, you do a rly good Job here. Keep it up :)
@@Mikeymikemike There is no way that your coral will pick up nutrients faster than algae. Algae are often unicellular organisms orders of magnitude smaller than corallites, so nutrient transport will be much faster in algae than in coral. I think the reason you see very little algae is from your diligent maintenance routine of cleaning your glass and from a healthy/balanced ecosystem/biome on your rock and sand which outcompete algae for habitat and snails which clean off what little algae manages to find a home.
@@christianp9604 No problem :) NO3 = 5ppm down to 2ppm daily, po4= 0.05ppm down to 0.00ppm daily. KH = 7.4-7.8dkh (I am working on stability and need to fix this) Ca = 450ppm, Mag, 1420ppm, K 500ppm, Br 78ppm, B = 8ppm - I will publish my ICP soon.
@@Mikeymikemike Thanks! I had to scroll down a ways to find someone that asked the same question I had. Also, thank you for posting a "range" of fluctuation for NO3 and PO4! I see so many target a very specific number/ration... which seems unrealistic.
That is true but at some point I also have to think about dissolves organic compounds and other byproducts and side effects of fish waste. Keeping it manageable works well at the moment.
I hate going to a TH-cam video expecting to listen or watch a video about what the title says and the illustrator talks about everything else forever. Get to the point.
Good to see some solid knowledge being shared rather than just product reviews or LFS tours :P
Thanks. I secretly enjoy the lfs tours… :)
I agree
Was thinking the exact same thing.
Man your tank speaks for itself and for what you are doing . For anyone who would state anything other than what you are doing shouldnpost a picture or keep silent
A lot of opinions online, I don’t mind the dialogue. There are definitely people who think their way is the best way ever and the only right way… I think they should prove their results. I’ve never seen someone say online. “Wow thanks for engaging in that long argument. I changed my mind now.” Haha
@Christopher Walker not sure i agree. Patience is not a method its a requirement. Like fishing you need patient but also you need a rod a reel experience and knowledge.
Not offended man. Your comments are polite nothing to be offended from my man .
mike where are you. been 2 yrs. what no more videos. I was enjoying them
I can’t tell how how much this video resonates with my experience and research. My tank doesn’t have a high number of fish and for nearly a year my no3 and po4 were bottomed out. Quantum reef amino’s helped bring back colour but still some corals bleach and declined All LPS and softies in my tank. Rather than feed heaps and dirty the tank I started dosing calcium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate to get my levels up. Today I started dosing a DIY Nopox mix to increase bacteria in the system to feed the corals. Your tank is an inspiration and I’ve subbed!
Thank you very much, I wish you all the success on your tank!
Just starting my first reef tank after some years in the freshwater hobby. And your channel speaks so much to me in terms of aquascaping and learning about the difference in chemistry between the two! Looking forward to more videos! :D Cheers
Thank you, I hope you find success!
Ive been successfully dosing nitrates the past 6 months in my 40gl mixed reef. I lose around 1.5-2 ppm daily. Ive found, in my own system, that shooting for 10pm and allowing it to fall towards 5 works best. The more you look at your own tank and really connect with each animal, the more you can start to see how parameters impact their health. I can always tell if my nitrates are dropping under 5 as the colors are all washed. I also struggle to keep my phosphates above zero and have found that daily dosing of some reef foods like Red Sea AB+ helps prevent full bottom outs... not ideal but works for now until I come up with a more reliable solution. Im also running no gfo. Great video and interesting topic looking forward to more content. Beautiful tank btw.
I think 10-5 is best too. I find any higher around 20ppm and green becomes very intense. It sometimes overpowers other colours too. For many that’s not a bad thing. The green could also be linked to iron and other trace metals
Hey man! I was wondering what type of lighting you have behind your tank? Absolutely one of the best setups I have seen, nice to see aquascaping taken seriously in the reef community! Super inspiring for my first tank
Great dialogue here - and timely as well. Looking forwarding to hearing more about your findings.
Great video. Well explained 👏 I've been doing the same, adding very little 2ppm nitrate every few weeks. As nitrates sitting at 5ppm phosphates always trying to head down to zero from 0.02, I'm adding elos phosphate 4ppm every 3 days to keep this at 0.02ppm. Testing now with the smart tester by reeffactory as super accurate.My gonipora likes a little dirty water and struggle when lower levels.
I appreciate your efforts mike
Thank you Joseph, I appreciate your comment.
I aim to keep 5-10 ppm nitrate and .05 -0.1 po4. I would try not to let them fluctuate and stay as stable as possible. That is where experience comes in and it gets a little more advanced. It is easy to keep alkalinity, calcium and magnesium stable but the nutrients can fluctuate on more factors in the system such as feeding, livestock behavior changes, bacteria population shifts etc. Rather than carbon dosing another method is frequently dosing bottled bacteria too and that way you know you are over competing any nuisance bacteria/algae that would also feed on the nutrients. Good video and info.
Thanks!!
Great info as always, Keep em coming Mikey!
Grat video. Great tips. I could watch this tank all day.
😱 omg I’m that guy trying to keep it at those perimeters 😂 Great vid 👍 😀🏴
Thank you! It’s ok to keep numbers consistent. Just make sure you read your corals as you read your numbers :)
Excellent explanation, I have a 70 gallon tank and when the NO3 was around 25 ppm and low PO4 the colours of my SPS and Zoas were bright, vibrant and gorgeously fluorescent.
In order to bring the nutrients down I started dosing Vodka/Vinegar and have tons of chaeto and around 15 kgs of bio ceramic rings in my sump.
Currently at 5 ppm NO3 and absolutely undetectable PO4 some of my SPS are looking very dull and washed out and some Zoas have shrunk and stay half open 😪😥😪
I guess I have to start dosing these nutrients asap.
Dosing nitrate and phosphate is safe if you continue to observe the levels and wait to see effects. It may make you more in tune with the reef.
Thanks Mikey, I am looking forward to.
Thank you for this, very insightful. I always thought the high nutrient in and high nutrient out method just doesn't seem efficient, alot of waste happens. It's like..we wouldn't throw alot of fertiliser over a plant and then clean up the excess, we understand what works and feed enough that will yield the best growth. Maybe the reefing game will evolve to that stage.
Very educational though, I didn't even know about potassium importance
On top of this, love the use of -np pro for reducing nitrates. Bacteria..this feels like what nature would do. I am going to test this. Really like aquaforest stuff
I started in saltwater with a cannister filter and switched to Sump, largely so I could hide all the stuff. Frankly, just couldn’t find a guide such as this, I may have stuck with canister.
Can you please do videos on aquascaping? That’s really your forte and no one else comes anywhere close to you in terms of skill.
Thank you. There are some really top people on the planted side many times better than me. But I will do my best to provide my style guide.
Wondering where you went. No new videos or comments for a whiles. Also, if you are still around, how do you manage to keep pH within normal range with carbon dosing and without a skimmer? I’m surprised you’re macro algae can grow on such a small bio load with carbon dosing as well.
True. I dose both NO3 and PO4 with great results.
Nice! Have you noticed a change in colour?
@@Mikeymikemike yes, very much like your experience - check out my vids to see
Excellent explanations!
Cool looking scape and loving the amount of corals in the system. I need to work out how to get more corals closer together like this. Interesting vid
It’s a bit like a puzzle. Does the PSB mean anything to you?
Great video once again!
Great stuff - yeah I carbon dose (Tropic Marin) and think it's the way to go. Problem is my nitrates got way too high (20+) whilst my PO4 was almost zero (probably from aminos). I want a ration of about 100 or 200 NO3:PO4 - not 2000. Also I had added a few more fish and now NO3 is out of control (40) and my PO4 is 0.07 - so I'm carbon dosing more.
I think because I have a Hipoppus clam I thought it was really cleaning the water. Also I only run my skimmer (oversized) for 8 hours at night but once you get behind its not great. I have also found in the past that doing more than a 10% water change was destabilizing.
Anyhow I think frozen has more PO4 so I will feed more of that and I've stopped aminos for the moment and have upped my carbon dosing.
It would be good to know what foods, additives increases PO4 and NO3
I also think it's better to manage nutrients with food over straight PO4 and NO3 - it's not as precise but I think you encourage a better ecosystem and then on top additives can help (like I often dose a little PO4 just to keep it off zero).
Great video , thank you for the tips
Thank you :)
Great vid Mikey subscribed 👍
Thanks for the sub!
Excelente video, congrats on your superb aquarium, really inspiring me to get back to the hobby. Now my question: it seems to me that the room where the aquarium is at do not get much sun light and probably has its temperature well under control. You do not use an auto top off, how do you control salinity? Thanks in advance and congrats again.
I will discuss auto top ups in my next video, it is not so complex for this tank
Hi Mike, great videos!
Could someone explain the rationale / science behind the high import and high export approach to nutrients?
Sure, if you have a high bio-load it makes sense that you need high export to manage that. But if you have a low bio-load, why add nutrients to then remove those nutrients? I get that high import & high export may more closely replicate natural seawater (with coral reefs getting flows of nutrient rich water which quickly then gets taken up). But I'm not inclined to assume that what happens in nature is necessarily best for corals or makes sense in a home aquarium.
I think high import, high export implies that what is best for corals is constantly changing nutrient levels (1. high nutrients go into the system, 2. some nutrients are taken up by corals and algae and 3. the rest you want to quickly export) rather than a stable level of nutrients (consistently add nutrients to achieve your desired N&P levels in the same way as you add Calcium etc.)
Can anyone clarify why this approach makes sense? Thanks!
I certainly can but I think the guys at BRS do those better than I do, they did a whole series on nutrient. But the idea is that we try to mimic ocean conditions of low nutrient but unfortunately we don’t have food abundance like the ocean. So heavy food in, heavy export out mimics that to some extent.
Quality content bud
You are on point the corals need that phosphates but its hard for them to get it but the bacteria consumes the phosphates and the corals consume them with the phosphates they ate my nitrates be at 10-20ppm and the corals are colorful and growing nuts people with clean systems shooting there self in the foot let the corals remove the nitrate and phosphates by there selves!!!
This is so awesome to see, and what a goal tank to strive for! I may have missed this in the long list of comments, but are you dosing sodium or potassium nitrate? Do you ever see a buildup of either ion over time that may cause issues? I myself like many others are trying to find the right "balance" of nutrients using approachable methods, and this is the most compelling I've stumbled across.
Thats a good question. I dosed KNO3 and saw a build up of potassium for sure. I then switched to CaNO3 which was good and had minimal impact on calcium. I couldn't get large quantities the other type since it is used for other uses.
Didn’t know u can carbon dose without skimmer. Interesting. Gonna try that.
Where can I find more info on your set up?
Mostly in these videos. There’s more to come :)
@@Mikeymikemike are you on reef2reef? I'm also wanting to know more about your livestock as far as fish goes
Do you no if I can incorporate those Lilly pipes to fit my whale canister filters. Peace.
Subscribed! Curios to know how old this system is
Cool user name! This system is 6 months old
Hey thanks! Did a lot do the livestock come from some of your other systems? The aquascape and presentation really is stunning (incase nobody has told you lol). Do you have and Instagram or build threads if your setups? I would like to know more of about your long term approach to keeping this system in good shape in the coming years. Maybe that’s not even your plan.
That’s crazy diversity and density for 6 months old. I’m just thinking out loud. Let me know if you’ve got other platforms
You know what’s crazy? I’ve been in the hobby for quite a while and I have never heard someone talk about no3 and po4 in terms of usage per day. It’s totally logical though! Is this something you have found to be consistent?
For example if you say you use 2ppm per day does that mean would measure 10ppm day 1.
8ppm day 2. 6ppm days 3, 4ppm day 3. Etc? Or have you found usage is different when you’re at 10ppm then it is if you are at 3ppm?
Sorry, TH-cam is not the best platform for discussion…
I’ve always wondered the same thing. Can acros survive only dosing nitrate and phosphate without fish or do they need the nutrients from fish food or poop.
Maybe for a short while, but eventually there will be deficiencies. There are many other micro nutrients that the zooxanthellae need so you will want to add another product that includes these. Its easier just to feed with something like Kent Microvert though IMO. Iodine is also extremely important. I surprised he didn't mention it here.
is there any specific vinegar brand you are using? TIA
Nice work Mike I like your theory and it makes sense on the import/export of nutrients.
How did you work out that your system is -2ppm nitrates etc. I’m guessing it was a test not feeding for 24hrs then another test to work it out? Or you did it with feeding included. How do you work out how much feeding the fish is adding to the system?
What are you using for the testing just standard test kits.
That is a good question. I fed normally for 3 days without any N or P dosing and checked the difference. I then continued measuring for another 3 days no dosing of N and P. Keep feeding as normal. If you see N and P fall you know the fish and food are not producing enough. I used a Hanna phosphorus ULR and Nyos and Aquaforest nitrate kit. Salifer is too difficult to read. I was able to confirm my po4 with ICP.
I think its imortant to add that there are many other micro nutrients that come from fish waste that are needed, so without fish, you will need more than the what is mentioned here, particularly Iodine. There are plenty of options for this, but it should be included if going this rout. Also, I don't agree with the delay argument for fish waste. The reason being is that if you are continuously feeding, then you will have continuous nutrients from the fish waste so the delay is nullified in the long run. You could argue that it builds up detritus in the sand though.
Yes. That is why I stated trace elements and aminos and I even wrote on the screen that feeding works on a mature system with more fish. Cheers
Thanks for creating these videos and sharing your knowledge. What salt do you use and what do you run your Alk, Ca, and Mg at?
Happy to do this for info sharing. 7.5dkh, 450ppm, 1420ppm
@@Mikeymikemike Thanks! What salt do you use?
@@stantan6130 I recommend Aquaforest as it close to sea water and consistent for me
Hi mike. Great video. My current reading now is nitrate 1 and Phos at 0.1. I have a 120 gal mixed rreef. I am using a GFO , running throughout the day. Do you think I should discontinue using the gfo? Do you use gfo? Thank you
I use gfo to remove silicates to control diatom. Your best bet is to monitor your corals. 0.1ppm phosphate is ok. A bit high for some. Unless you mean 0.01. Then I would dose a little. You should keep the GFO 0.1 since it may go up beyond that threshold if you remove it.
Do you think the heavy in heavy out should be done at the same time ie big feed with carbon dosing or allow a time delay between feed and carbon dose?
I guess once the system gets into a rhythm, the delay is no longer a thing. The one possible delay in nutrient build up is if the food or waste does not get cleaned out of the system. That is what Dissolved organic compounds (doc) increases and that is harder to measure. We have NDOC testing I guess.
Hmmmm my Nitrates are only at 1ppm. Maybe time to try dosing and see how i go. What products do you use for dosing?
If your corals are healthy and vibrant then keep it as it is. :) I use Aquaforest, some kno3 and potassium salts
Do you have a skimmer? I was always told you need a good skimmer to Carbon Dose.
Thanks Mike, do you use a doser for your Liquid Mysis? or do yo does it by hand
It’s not an automated setup, I just squirt a little frequently. Instead of one whole cube once a day. But now you got me thinking! I think I can automate it!
@@Mikeymikemike Sweet, please do share your auto feed method once you have it up and running :)
Always informative - Thanks!
My weekly dose of sanity, yes humans need a good dose as well :-)
Thank you Mr Spicy
Great tank! What brand of NO3 you use?
You can use any type of NO3. I use AF liquid mysis (that contains N and feeds fish and corals) and AF Nitro boost, but you can also use KNO3, CANO3 or NANO3 salts. I found corals respond better to organic forms like liquid mysis for polyp extension, all my cynatina go massive and, KNO3 works quick to colour up corals. (probably due to the K)
Subbed with notifications!
Thank you!
You are a master!
Thanks Paul - Haha I am far from it, even my system goes through up and downs, browning/bleaching and growth. I wish I could keep every coral happy and alive forever. Though I don't know a single seasoned reefer who has never had a coral die in their system. We are getting better these days though... Thanks to you and your knowledge too.
Are those green chromis in there? they look really blue, kinda like a damsel(but too big of a school for damsels)
correct, they are blue /green chromis. The variety we have here in our local waters is very rich in colour.
hey Dude where have you been???
I’ve been carbon dosing with Tropic Marin NP Bacto Balance. I’ve got myself into an issue where I have my phosphates where I want them but Nitrate is bottomed out to 0. Thoughts on additional nitrate dosing along with my carbon dosing?
Go for it, dose it organically through frozen foods or inorganically with KNO3 or CaNO3
@@Mikeymikemike Dont dose CaNO3 with adding PO4 it can leeds to gips. Better MgNO3
How much do you dose of each solution to keep your system. ? Doyou dose bacteria or only N p Pro?
I dose bacteria as well, AF -NP pro keeps it stable.
Dosing po4 and no3 eliminates dos from foods. That’s how it works. I noticed you were trying to explain it. The dissolved organic from food dosing is what you really don’t want
You are right! In my system DOCs cannot be removed as efficiently as a skimmer or fleece roller. I still feed quite heavily as my fish are getting quite fat. So need to find a nice middle ground.
Be interesting to see if you ditched the nopox if you’d keep a stable super low amount of nutrients.
The -np pro is used to keep bacteria population healthy. This helps to feed the corals and the side effect is nutrient reduction. :) I will keep dosing this periodically but not for nutrient control.
@@Mikeymikemike never thought of it that way. I tried the nopox and dose po4 and no3 route and felt like I was pouring in one to handle the other and went back to keeping low nitrates and lower pho’s and seemed to get the same results after six months. Maybe I didn’t bottom out low enough and dose high enough to see Amy changes
@@houseofsharpeis9366 then you have found the magic balance point, well done!
In need of advice dosing. With regards to nitrate dosing. Does it matter what time of day to dose? Reason I ask is because I run chaeto in my refugium and I'm thinking if I dose it while refugium light is on the cheato will absorb the nitrates before the corals maybe? So should I dose when refugium lights are off?
good point, I dose in the morning and the chaeto seem to absorb the rest of it. I'm thinking of removing the chaeto on my system but it seems to offer other benefits such as ph stability so for now it stays
@@Mikeymikemike it's a nice advantage having the ph stability aspect. I'm gonna experiment and auto dose nitrates just as the refugium light switches off. If there's excess cheato can take it at night (reverse light cycle). Now my mind is dwelling on trace elements dosing in the same scenario aswell ?It's like picking who you want to feed first lol. I could be over thinking lol
@@jaredemmanuelganesan7623 I know what it is like to over think it haha. One thing you must know is that an increase in nitrate requires an equal portion of phosphate otherwise P can drop very fast and cause damage. It happened to my robusta and others have experienced this. maybe try manual dosng for now until you know a known dose for a month.
@@Mikeymikemike hahaha I am a former high tech planted guy. So perfection comes naturally I guess. That's some important things to consider there with regards to phosphate. Very interesting information. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Looking forward to future videos.
Hi, can u share for maintenance and dosing system? What do you use and how much you dose that's big 3 and atc..
I will do this video soon for you :)
@@Mikeymikemike thank you very much 🙏
Anyway, my hoby is aquascape from long time and I feel try to marine tank will be lots of interesting.
I very interested of your channel about reef tank with canister filter, wich that SPS is very difficult about keep the water parameters.
Give me and other people how to grow your SPS with canister (filtration), how to maintain, how to dosing, lighting, water parameter, temperature, etc..
Very very love your tank. 👍
Is it just the corals eating up your N and PO4?
check my latest video for specific filtration :)
Quite interesting view, Mike! I've always read about people carbon dosing AND using a skimmer to remove the bacteria in order to reduce nitrates and phosphates.
I can see a lot of your Nature Aquarium background in this video :)
Thank you, bacteria gets eaten by corals and the rest will be mecahnically filtered or just exist in the system
You said you use GFO to control diatoms. Does that mean you use GFO on as needed basis? Or do you constantly run GFO?
Constantly run it, it’s for Silicates, not Po4 in my case, I have a po4 deficit so I need to dose it. Eventually you can remove it too if you have enough sponges and squirts to take care of silicates or a really efficient RoDi unit.
@@Mikeymikemike Thank you for the reply. I'm coming from the planted tank side and want to create something like what you have except with easier corals. Your setup is so clean and well done.
My bta climb right to the top of my rocks. How do you keep yours down?
They are on an island made of real reef rock tm. It has lots of holes in it for them to anchor down
which salt do you use?
wich country do you from?
What products do you use for nitrate and po?
Aqua forest and a local brand called LCA for CaNO3
Hi, nice Video again :)
But what I have to add is: if you dose anorganic nitrogen (AN), you actually do the same as fish do. The difference is, the AN that the fishes are producing is waste made of organic nitrogen (ON) in form of ammonium (NH4). And NH4 is the chemical bond we need for our corals. Because corals can only transform NH4 into AN like aminoacids. So nitrate needs to get reduced to NH4 before its useable. That takes alot of energy. So in the end, your question: "is it better to dose AN or ON", is kinda obsolete ;)
And btw. any Nitrogen bonded on a carbon atom is classified as ON :)
What I dont get here is: If u need to perma dose nutrients because your system got such an high demand on it, why are u still running GFO and Zeolith? What is the actual point :D
I hope I was understandable. I am not a native speaker. So forgive me some grammar fails I did here :D
Excellent! I think it is good to have a system that returns to baseline like the reefs do. Nutrient rich waters come and go. Food comes and goes. In our aquariums we need to make nutrients available for the corals but not hang around long enough for it to become available to algae. This is the reason why you see I have cleaner glass and no algae on rocks or sand. Also, corals that are healthy from a scientific standpoint are actually a brown sps. Most papers focus on healthy sps as brown sps. In our aquariums we are chasing better colour so the goal is a little different. Higher po4 also restricts calcification of coral skeleton. Finally, lower po4 is good for colouration as it reduces excessive zoox. It’s a balance of enough po4 for health and colour but not too much the coral gets brown. If bacteria does a super efficient job, I will keep the zeolite for bio media. The gfo also has a secondary function to remove silicates from water. So that is why I will keep them. I can remove it and maybe it will be ok.
Thank you and your comment is perfectly understandable :)
@@Mikeymikemike Ok I got you :) You want the nutrients to stay as short as possible in the water column. Thats an interesting approach.
And yes I have seen some observation tanks in a research group of my University in Germany, few years ago. Students had to water blast these tanks every week. Thats something you realy dont want in your living room :D These ones are mostly running at high nutrients levels to imitate a high level of available zooplankton.
In Australia they can just flood the tanks with sea water from the nearby coast.
However, you do a rly good Job here. Keep it up :)
@@cryinf thank you :) and good to have your discussions
@@Mikeymikemike There is no way that your coral will pick up nutrients faster than algae. Algae are often unicellular organisms orders of magnitude smaller than corallites, so nutrient transport will be much faster in algae than in coral. I think the reason you see very little algae is from your diligent maintenance routine of cleaning your glass and from a healthy/balanced ecosystem/biome on your rock and sand which outcompete algae for habitat and snails which clean off what little algae manages to find a home.
@@glasscanvasart5273 that’s a good point. Let’s not forget our corals are filled with symbiotic algae :) :) :)
What kind of sand do you have looks solid like it's thick I need sand like that my wave makers blow it all around
I use a coarse aragonite sand which is fine enough to act like sand and course enough to bind together
Which water parameters are you trying to comply with? NO3, PO3, Kh, Ca?
What do you mean by comply? I'm not quite sure what you are asking based on the wording of your question but will do my best to answer.
Sorry for my incomprehensible words. English is not my native language. I just wanted to know what water values you have for your corals.
@@christianp9604 No problem :) NO3 = 5ppm down to 2ppm daily, po4= 0.05ppm down to 0.00ppm daily. KH = 7.4-7.8dkh (I am working on stability and need to fix this)
Ca = 450ppm, Mag, 1420ppm, K 500ppm, Br 78ppm, B = 8ppm - I will publish my ICP soon.
@@Mikeymikemike thanks
@@Mikeymikemike Thanks! I had to scroll down a ways to find someone that asked the same question I had. Also, thank you for posting a "range" of fluctuation for NO3 and PO4! I see so many target a very specific number/ration... which seems unrealistic.
do you have an Instagram account with photos of this tank it is beautiful
Sorry I do not do IG :)
🥰🇧🇷
Woulden it be easier just to put a fish or to more in ...looks a little lacking
That is true but at some point I also have to think about dissolves organic compounds and other byproducts and side effects of fish waste. Keeping it manageable works well at the moment.
Change ur channel name to something reefy. Never knew ur channel exists
Dude you don’t even have a glass cleaner and why… how ‘,…Is your glass sooooooo clean
I clean my glass, but carbon dosing does keep it cleaner for longer.
@@Mikeymikemike wait then where’s your glass cleaner ?
you should really ad an anemone for your clown fish
There are 10 of them in there
@@Mikeymikemike 10 anemone, I see euphyllia but not anemone no?
@@tomg5405 trust me, theres 10 bubbletips at the back :) some hosted by crabs too. I know the difference between an anemone and a euphyllia haha
@@Mikeymikemike aha then is good you keep them hidden lucky that they not go in your sps
I hate going to a TH-cam video expecting to listen or watch a video about what the title says and the illustrator talks about everything else forever. Get to the point.