Skipped playing Friday and Saturday night poker to put this video together haha so pls subscribe if you enjoyed and much love to all that have watched 🫡
replying here so you'll see it, when you have people owe you large amounts of dollars, you're really quite powerless to get it back unless they willingly pay it - none of this can be legally pursued and once you expose the person, they no longer have any incentive to pay you what is normally the case is people will gladly take small incremental payments over time or even just the hope of one day getting paid (it sometimes happens) over nuking the relatinoship and guaranteeing you'll never see the money been owed mid 5 figures quite often from beards/agents/bookies/opponents and been slow paid by most of them, had i "outed them" early on they would have probably used that as an excuse not to pay it's nothing like how it's portrayed in film, people are not like the sopranos, and even if you were, it still wouldn't get you paid
@@Magic-Marv420 holding people accountable and reporting on big named players absolutely falls under "his business" since "his business" is reporting on poker news. Not reporting on scummy players and sweeping these things under the rug is why poker as a whole has such a bad reputation.
Crazy when you realize that buying discounted tomato sauce at the grocery and cooking your own macaroni makes you richer than some of these 'SuperHeroes'
@@badkarmabaroo it's still crazy that anyone would give dwan any part of their money after all this time. At this point, some of these dudes deserve to lose their money with how gulible they are.
Only few famous people are honorable in this indusry. The one we use to trust like Tom Dwan ang Garret Aldestein have their own questionables moves done to other players regarding money. Only Daniel and Phil Hellmuth are left from what i presumed "but" im still skeptical 'bout the poker sites and crypto they promote.
Exactly. He is such a pos. He pays off random people here and there small amounts to try and keep people quiet. He could have just payed it all back when he had the money. Instead he blows the money and borrows more from other people and blows his money
@WalpNacht i believe what is trying to be conveyed with that quote is something along the lines of : if u get robbed, u know ur not ever getting that money back; however, if someone borrows the money from u, the implication is they will try to pay u back - so ur expecting to be paid back so u don't know for certain if u will get that back or not. Whereas with being robbed, u dont have to stress about the uncertainty because ur not getting that back period. I dunno maybe im full of shit
@ElaraNightsky when you're robbed it's a POS who you don't know and the police will deal with it for you, when someone borrows money and refuses to pay you lose the money and have the emotional pain of getting screwed over by someone you trusted all while having to put continuous effort into getting the money back.
@ElaraNightsky it's like when a parent literally loses their child (though obviously 100000000 times less severe) they will never be able to move on from it because there's always that chance they're out there, whereas if your kid gets killed then it's worse at first but they are able to (partly) get over it with enough time.
About 3 years ago my best friend is having lunch in downtown Toronto he sees durr and winds up introducing himself and telling him he enjoys watching him play.One thing leads to another and my friend tells durrr of a local big game (50/100 I believe) and if he is in town should come play.Durr explains hes leaving town but they exchange numbers.2 hours later my friend gets a call from Durr telling him he would like to send a friend to play and he "will cover any loss up to 300k and you know I am good for it" My friend asked "you will cover,how"? Durr says by any means you like.My friend said "sorry we only have 10 minutes of history,I cant vouch 300k for you,send your friend the funds and he is welcome" Durr says "I can arrange that within an hour I will get back to you in 15 minutes" Never heard back from him again.Does it mean he was taking a shot at my friend? I think so.Not to mention my friend and wife look like billboards for Neuvo rich with the outfits,botox and jewelry.He gives the air of a mark for sure,so I think VERY likely.
@@aRealParadise If your question was for me.I believe so or a different day but nosebleed stakes.Apparently Antonio and Kevin Hart played once.Antonio flopped quads on A88 (its Omaha) and got a 300 k pot when other player had AA in his hand.He got the same guy in another hand that was similar.Hart was smoking on balcony mostly and interested in the "hosteses" more than playing.Which at 5k a "hostes" it was way cheaper than the card game was.He was making jokes that the girls charged U.S. when he thought he would save on the exchange rate.
This is the situation with most professional gamblers. They win some money, go up in stakes and lose. Win some more and lose. Then they eventually go flat broke or close to it when a bad run happens. End up borrowing money from other players, which means any money won from then on is spoken for by many multiple people in most cases like this. I remember Mike Matosow winning a bracelet and keeping about 10% of his millions he won, because he owed everyone in Vegas at least 10k. These are people who gamble on how many Frosted Flakes landed in their cereal bowl that morning for 100k.
@@andrewdoctor6584 He won 1 million for finishing 9th in the main event in 2005 and a couple of months later won 1 million for 1st in the Tournament of Champions.
@@Paul-ew5st he wrote ‘winning a bracelet and keeping 10% of his millions.’ My point was they a bracelet win then didn’t have a prize of millionS. He stated therefore that with one bracelet win he won millions. Understand ?
There are too many people saying he owes debts. It's highly unlikely they are all lying, so I think that yes, Tom Dwan is a bad guy when it comes to paying back what he owes. Never make a loan at the poker table, and only loan a friend money if you are comfortable with not being paid back.
The best part is he doesn't dispute barrowing the money. His problem his how upset the people got and decided he didn't have to pay because he was now offended by them being upset. It pretty typical behavior from someone who never had any intention of paying anyone back. I know this all to well.
I disagree, I feel like these rumors all started when he just stopped playing on TV because he was playing the games in Macau, which I have seen interviews with players from those games saying he crushes/is a big winner there? So I really don't believe he owes 'lots' of people money.
@jamesbuchanan2001 Rumors?? There are many people that have come out and given specific examples of Tom's fuckery, and Tom doesn't dispute their validity. Just that he doesn't think he should pay one the person gets pissed and speaks out G against him.
Jungle can be relatively cool about it because Tom has made a lot of significant payments, and I get the impression Jungle has been winning in big games for decades. If that is the case, if you have 100 million, then someone not giving you the last 500k they owe you, which is all profit on top if the million you already got from them, would not very upsetting to most. If Jungle were poor, he would care a lot more.
@@talullahtheegyptianbaladyd4388 it does seem like there are countless stories of "top" pros being broke, and many of them also seems to have backers. If you are a top winning player with great results, surely you would back yourself. But surely, there must be a couple of top players who actually win consistently and don't act like idiots?
@@ML-sj3gi I think backing is part of game, and selling reduces their risk. There are loads of players that you never hear any issue about. Ivey, Patrick a, mikita, true teller, linus l, jungle. And they all play similar games. I heard story bout ivey, someone turned up at his table, he said "I owe you money don't i" and he asked another guy to give him the 20k, and he would sort it later. That's how I would want to be, nobody ever complaining I owed, then you get amazing credit.
@@ML-sj3gi sure there are, im just saying 100 million is a bit far fetched, dan cates is a millionair for sure, but you have take into account a lot of factors. Staking, sponsorship deals, investment schemes, you name it...but 100 million is....well... just a huge overestimation.
It all boils down to him knowing there won't be any consequences for not paying these people. Sad truth, he just knows who to string along like this. Ffs Jungle being owed for a decade and a half is insane.
It's crazy because back when Dwan was new on HSP / televised cash games he would lend others all kinds of money all the time. You'd think a guy that would lend money like that would be the kind of guy you could trust.
I have one best friend, been my friend 30 of my 45 year life. A couple of years ago we both had the poker bug. We were at a casino playing and I lost all my cash. I asked him to lend me a couple of hundreds and he replied :"I don't lend money for poker". Today I'm glad he didnt give me money and he is still my best friend.
My buddy and I went to the casino and he lost all his money. I won it all back and then some more and gave it all to him and said we are going straight home. That’s what real friendship is. Not sure about yours.
What’s surprising is that he has won some of the largest pots ever that have been televised. I think he is in at least 6-7 of the top all time pot sizes
I've never understood it how when they're playing, they get stacked and just casually ask someone at the table to lend them $50k or $100k and they do it and just track it with a text message or whatever and I've never heard someone say 'No!'.
You gotta think these people have millions in the bank and the person who says “yeah! ill lend you 100k” probably asked someone else the same thing a few nights before. Lol
This one kid from high school owes me $19.99 for a video game rental from Blockbuster back in 1997. I mean, c'mon.. In 2024, money it's like $30. That could get my bank account out of negative.
I was in line at a Starbucks a block from the Palms casino in Vegas probably 10-12 years ago and I realized that Tom Dwan was in line right behind me. I offered to pay for whatever he was getting but he said no. Now I feel like my money wasn't good enough for him. I swear that this really did happen.
Clearly one of his main tactics to delaying making any payments is arguing the amount owed to death and claiming they are “squeezing him” or “taking advantage of the situation” and then not paying anything as a matter of “principle”
Sure, because when you charge someone with some wrongdoing, it hurts. If I went up to you and called you a murderer, your head wouldn't turn red? That hardly means you're guilty. Allegations are slander my dude, you didn't know that? He literally admitted that Tom has made GOOD on some 700k in penalties. What's more, this is POKER and GAMBLING. If he's genius enough to lend out his money to Tom then he's genius enough to suck it up and wait for the returns. And, he's made over 700K on his initial loans, yet is still slandering him. Sorry, that's on him. Nice try.
@@semasiologistics When did i say he was guilty dickeyes i just pointed out he went red but what do u think everyone is lying and he dosent owe a cent and you saying making good on some kills your point ur basicly saying what the players are saying he still owes us money . Not your best effort trying to be a smart arse but here iv some good news for you its no brain no tumor .
Sorry you're sad bro. I hope you find your way man. Dwan is one of the greats, whether you agree with it or not, no one cares. If he's stressed out and owes people money, tough luck. Next time they will be more responsible with their money. He's made good on his word countless times and paid people back, and rejects like this dude Craig are slandering him anyway. Definitely not a good dude in my book. Tom on the other hand is doing just fine.
@@paulcox2447 True. Pretty much everything is ruined. But it is only a few things that specifically rely on competitors that aren’t competitive. Every time the obsessed sit down at the poker table they do so with all the stock justifications of why that uncompetitive fish got what they deserved.
What these people describe him as is exactly how people that owe money usually behave. They're all nice and apologetic once you give them time, but soon as you say it's enough, they turn on you like you're the villian. Moral of the story, don't ever borrow money.
As someone who plays poker regularly, an unwritten rule: I never lend to other players, and I would never ask to be staked. If you cant play with your own bankroll, you shouldn't be playing
@SiriusV21 People buy action so players can enter tournaments, but if the player loses, the player doesn't have to pay it back. With Dwan, people are saying he took money under different circumstances, and never paid it back.
Thanks so much for making this video. I always felt like durrr was a tremendously polarizing figure, and after the fallout after the durrr challenge, it's like a car crash that you can't avert your eyes from. I don't think there's a tremendous amount of nuance, and it might be naive for me to say it, but I feel that Tom Dwan is just a reckless gambler, living over his head, and making choices he's unable to back up financially. I never particularly liked the dude, but i don't think he's a 'horrible' human being, or anything like that. Tremendous video, thx for the update
you said it correctly - Dwana is a reckless gambler, this reckless personality in his genes; he can't help himself! There is no tremendous amount of nuance- all nuances are secondary!
Absolutely. Dwan should really be blacklisted until he pays his debts. Why would anyone play with him these days when he's known for refusing to pay when he loses?
Mid life someone told me "never borrow money, just gift it" I wish I knew that early on. Do I ever learn? Recently, I borrowed my closest friend $5000 and it's been 7 months and he still owes me $4500. This is absolutely the last time I will ever borrow money to anyone...
I had a friend that used to tell folks he owed money to: "I'll pay you weekly". Later he's tell me the story and he'd add:..."Yeah, I'll pay him weekly,...VERY weakly!" Maybe Tom went to the same finishing school? 🙂
I’m amazed by the number of ‘successful’ pros who go broke and deep in debt. Smart and talented enough to go pro; but, not smart enough to save and invest during a run good period..
Dwan said he wanted to take my motorcycle for a whirl and the dude just ran off with it. It took 3 days and several threats to call the police for him to give it back.
When lending money always stipulate a date to pay. Preferably in writing or text where the party agrees. Verbal works with a witness. IOUs generally don't hold much in court, promissory note does.
Just curious how complicated this really goes. I have a feeling a large portion of young pro’s owe each other money. It’s a way to make sure everyone stays connected, a.k.a “collusion”.
I was at a restaurant in Hong Kong with Durr and two poker dealers from our private game and he told told them that he quit smoking And if he did he would pay them 100k (Hong Kong Dollars) each. He paid them 200k before we finished dinner. I doubt he is struggling for money.
He owed way more than that, plus he had penalties for forfeiting the bet, and a bunch of side action on it. You'll notice Patrik paid him when he lost. Tom's just a degenerate.
Jungle (and others) can be reasonably fine not being paid for years for a couple reasons. One being these guys play for millions of dollars all the time, so they don't view the money the same way as most of us. The other being how long it's been. After years have gone by, they probably reached the point to where they've accepted eating the loss and it's now just a bonus if they ever get any of it back.
It sounds like Jungle has been paid back. The video says Dwan paid 1.3million and still owed 200k but eventually over time has paid nearly 7 figures in interest. If that is true then Jungleman got over 2million on a 1.5million debt. If that isn't true then why is this guy making some bullshit video where he doesn't have any facts?
Back in the late 2000s, Dwan was my poker idol when I first got into the game. It's honestly sad to see him in this situation and with such a different personality now.
Because he is a smart person but he is a bad person as well. Some people who are smart are good people... not all though obviously. Some people are just out for themselves no matter how unethical
Probably able to keep borrowing because he will be able to say he's +ev in those games. If you have more going out then coming in, there will always be defecit. He could have had more than enough money to not have to borrow again but he must not have saved enough. Always looking for the next action.
Hahahaha that’s a blast from the past, Tom dwan missing held hostage playing cash games in macau 16 hours a day to pay back his Chinese triad backers lol
See you got paid 1.3 million out of 1.5 and then got an extra $700,000 on top making it 2 million so you made an extra $500,000 because he paid late and still bitching about it that said😢😂😂😂
That view is idiotic! Firstly don't you realise that having the money immediately rather than over 7 years is worth 10x $500k? Secondly, it's a matter of principle; if the agreement has late payment penalties then it is what it is. Finally, when you borrow money, once you have the means to pay, that is what you should do rather than continue lavish spending or gambling!
@@ottomanstamper7609 It's as simple as you loan your buddy 20 bucks your buddy doesn't give you the 20 bucks but gives you 40 bucks later for the trouble are you really going to grill him that f****** hard for all the interest and stuff because he didn't give it to you when he was supposed to And yet you still got more money than you loaned I think not people are being asinine because it's millions of dollars... And if it's on a matter of principle and you've made your money back and then some don't loan again to that same person It's not rocket science
One thing I find very odd is that I finished playing poker years ago after a 13 year career. I made about a million and never once owed anyone a single dollar. I was owed about $20,000, which I never got back. Somehow Tom has earned way more than me and still plays big games yet he owes people a fortune.
What gets me is these people all know each other, yet they still lend him money. He takes their money because ultimately they aren't going to do anything about it.
well... if they didn't know each other, would they just lend 6 or 7 figures to someone? Would you lend that amount to a complete stranger? So why is it worth commenting that they know each other? And yes, they lent him money in the past thinking he was good for it. Once it's been clear he isn't repaying, are they still lending him money? Is jungle sending money to dwan every few months? so what is the meaning of your post?
Most regular, pro poker players are bad guys lol. The discussion is always about scams, arbitration, unpaid debts, bots. This is largely a scummy environment. IMO, the only way to play is at a casino and without borrowing any money. That said, that requires not being greedy...
Just shows that high stakes poker is mostly based on luck since even a player as good as Tom can be down millions. They all cancel themselves out and every big play is either 50/50 nuts or a bluff. All the best players seem to make most of their money from running poker related business rather than earning their money at the table
I once staked Tom for 12k back in like 2008… paid me back 21k. He’s probably got more problems now than when I knew him personally, but he’s not some degenerate that bucks everyone he owes. Just thought I’d give my 2 cents
@@johnparker524The truth is that 90% of these pros has much less of a net worth than people assume. Almost none of them has 100% of their own action it is more likely 10-20%.. Neither live or online. These with really big net worth - has their wealth from other incomestreams than poker.
With the way Dwan played over the years, its unsurprising that he owes. I saw him play recklessly loose. And while he won a lot of money that way, he sure as shit lost a lot too. Kind of reminds me of what happened to Gus Hansen. The guys that play that wild dont last.
Tom isn't anything great. If he had to only go off of his personal bank roll, he'd been burned through that a decade ago. The only reason he looks like he's some great poker player is because he's using everyone else's money. It's easy to call it all off if you know you can just go borrow more money but if you know you are flat broke if you make a wrong call, you're going to play a lot different. If you have endless amounts of money you can borrow, you can just hero call everytime and look like king shit. But like I said, if Dwan was only able to use his own money, he would've been busto 10 or 15 years ago. He's no better of a player then any other random , competent player, he just has access to lots of money so he can play recklessly
Tom Dwan borrowed 50 cents from me in grade school for a cafeteria chocolate milk and never paid me back. He also borrowed one of my PS1 Mad Catz controllers and NBA Showtime '98 from me and never returned either. Some of us never learn with Tom.
Iron Finance Rule #1 . . . ANY $$$ borrowed by friends and or associates should be considered LOST. Such $$$ should be considered as a gift to said friend or associate with NO expectation of repayment.
Its easy to look like a great poker player if youre just given endless amounts of money to gamble with. You can just call off anything and not have to worry. Eventually you'll win some big pots. But if youre using your own money, and youre liable to go broke , literally, then youre not going to make many of those hero calls. You'll have to play more conservative at times because you know you only have a certain amount of money. But in dwans case , he can lose everything, and its obvious he lost everything many times over or else he wouldn't be borrowing money from everyone, he can just ask for more money when he's busto again. He's not that good, he just has access to unlimited money. Any one of us can do what he does if we had access to endless supply of money
Yes, this dude owes me about $800. Many years ago back in early 2000s i played online with him. Drrrrr was his handle then, anyway he chased me down and went runner, runner spade to win. I put him all in after the turn. But I am the one that coined the phrase "Bink" and it's pissing me off to no end that i'll never get credit for that. The saying used to go. (with Russian accent) " bink" I break you like twig..." after ever take down. But no one knows or cares. Such is my life.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
Skipped playing Friday and Saturday night poker to put this video together haha so pls subscribe if you enjoyed and much love to all that have watched 🫡
replying here so you'll see it, when you have people owe you large amounts of dollars, you're really quite powerless to get it back unless they willingly pay it - none of this can be legally pursued and once you expose the person, they no longer have any incentive to pay you
what is normally the case is people will gladly take small incremental payments over time or even just the hope of one day getting paid (it sometimes happens) over nuking the relatinoship and guaranteeing you'll never see the money
been owed mid 5 figures quite often from beards/agents/bookies/opponents and been slow paid by most of them, had i "outed them" early on they would have probably used that as an excuse not to pay
it's nothing like how it's portrayed in film, people are not like the sopranos, and even if you were, it still wouldn't get you paid
already subbed, but i did like this video, i tend to save my likes for videos that i actually do like. Cheers
1. This is none of your business...why you bring that up?
2. What optician told you those glasses look good on you?
@@Magic-Marv420 holding people accountable and reporting on big named players absolutely falls under "his business" since "his business" is reporting on poker news. Not reporting on scummy players and sweeping these things under the rug is why poker as a whole has such a bad reputation.
Great video man!! nice work!! Keep it up!!
Crazy when you realize that buying discounted tomato sauce at the grocery and cooking your own macaroni makes you richer than some of these 'SuperHeroes'
🤣🤣🤣
Sure lol. Then I guess everyone with a mortgage and a car loan is poorer too
You're not lying 😂
@@gordonrules123 If you are underwater on your mortgage then yes, your house is making you poorer.
@@Acece665Imagine common sense still existed. It’s so rare nowadays.
The worst thing when someone owes you money is when they have the money to pay, but refuse to pay it.
In this case, not sure if he has the money to pay.
Cause they always think they can double up lol
That's why in the casino industry we were never allowed to talk about who won what because you never know if that person owed that person money
Dwan is famously broke and over leveraged. As Jungle eluded.
It's probably because they think they can run that money up even more, but will inevitably lose it.
How awkward sitting right next to the dude who owes you money and refuses to pay sitting on a $3m stack
Infuriating*
Yeah, but they both know that stack was staked by some other dude.
@@badkarmabaroo it's still crazy that anyone would give dwan any part of their money after all this time.
At this point, some of these dudes deserve to lose their money with how gulible they are.
If he keeps getting away with playing with trustfull morons, then he will continue.
The problem is that in a tournament 3 millions aren't 3 millions
Tom's face looks likes he is battling so many demons.
I mean this industry is a slippery slope, It's honestly a common tale.
Only few famous people are honorable in this indusry. The one we use to trust like Tom Dwan ang Garret Aldestein have their own questionables moves done to other players regarding money. Only Daniel and Phil Hellmuth are left from what i presumed "but" im still skeptical 'bout the poker sites and crypto they promote.
Oh yeah? If it's so common give me 73 examples.
Tom has those dead eyes. Its like there is no soul in there.
Exactly. He is such a pos. He pays off random people here and there small amounts to try and keep people quiet. He could have just payed it all back when he had the money.
Instead he blows the money and borrows more from other people and blows his money
Because there is not one.
It's called heroin
Narcissism
“Lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll’s eyes” as Captain Quint would say
Dwan owes me a million. I'll accept 50k though
Very nice of you
Same
He owes me 10 cents hahaha
Aw dude, that's both of us lol
😂😂😂
A Bolivian lawyer said. "I'd rather be robbed than borrowed"
100 percent, especially when it was someone who you thought was a close friend.
@WalpNacht i believe what is trying to be conveyed with that quote is something along the lines of : if u get robbed, u know ur not ever getting that money back; however, if someone borrows the money from u, the implication is they will try to pay u back - so ur expecting to be paid back so u don't know for certain if u will get that back or not. Whereas with being robbed, u dont have to stress about the uncertainty because ur not getting that back period. I dunno maybe im full of shit
No, especially not legally. Borrowing is a civil matter, robbing is a criminal matter.@WalpNacht
@ElaraNightsky when you're robbed it's a POS who you don't know and the police will deal with it for you, when someone borrows money and refuses to pay you lose the money and have the emotional pain of getting screwed over by someone you trusted all while having to put continuous effort into getting the money back.
@ElaraNightsky it's like when a parent literally loses their child (though obviously 100000000 times less severe) they will never be able to move on from it because there's always that chance they're out there, whereas if your kid gets killed then it's worse at first but they are able to (partly) get over it with enough time.
About 3 years ago my best friend is having lunch in downtown Toronto he sees durr and winds up introducing himself and telling him he enjoys watching him play.One thing leads to another and my friend tells durrr of a local big game (50/100 I believe) and if he is in town should come play.Durr explains hes leaving town but they exchange numbers.2 hours later my friend gets a call from Durr telling him he would like to send a friend to play and he "will cover any loss up to 300k and you know I am good for it" My friend asked "you will cover,how"? Durr says by any means you like.My friend said "sorry we only have 10 minutes of history,I cant vouch 300k for you,send your friend the funds and he is welcome" Durr says "I can arrange that within an hour I will get back to you in 15 minutes" Never heard back from him again.Does it mean he was taking a shot at my friend? I think so.Not to mention my friend and wife look like billboards for Neuvo rich with the outfits,botox and jewelry.He gives the air of a mark for sure,so I think VERY likely.
Is game still running
@@aRealParadise If your question was for me.I believe so or a different day but nosebleed stakes.Apparently Antonio and Kevin Hart played once.Antonio flopped quads on A88 (its Omaha) and got a 300 k pot when other player had AA in his hand.He got the same guy in another hand that was similar.Hart was smoking on balcony mostly and interested in the "hosteses" more than playing.Which at 5k a "hostes" it was way cheaper than the card game was.He was making jokes that the girls charged U.S. when he thought he would save on the exchange rate.
Can we agree loaning money to gamblers is a losing proposition?
Loan sharks can enforce . Not these Pussy poker players
No
we absolutely can
Somebody be my backer or find me one and we'll make a lot of money
There's a few that give it a bad name.... most are decent normal people that pay their debts
This is the situation with most professional gamblers. They win some money, go up in stakes and lose. Win some more and lose. Then they eventually go flat broke or close to it when a bad run happens. End up borrowing money from other players, which means any money won from then on is spoken for by many multiple people in most cases like this. I remember Mike Matosow winning a bracelet and keeping about 10% of his millions he won, because he owed everyone in Vegas at least 10k. These are people who gamble on how many Frosted Flakes landed in their cereal bowl that morning for 100k.
You didn’t win millions winning a bracelet unless it was the main event years ago you won a few hundred thousand
@@andrewdoctor6584i gueerntee you 99pct of poker players have lost money they probably just even like dneg.most are broke
@@andrewdoctor6584 He won 1 million for finishing 9th in the main event in 2005 and a couple of months later won 1 million for 1st in the Tournament of Champions.
@@Paul-ew5st he wrote ‘winning a bracelet and keeping 10% of his millions.’ My point was they a bracelet win then didn’t have a prize of millionS. He stated therefore that with one bracelet win he won millions. Understand ?
@@andrewdoctor6584 I understand you're a pedant
Tom owes me everything I lost trying to play like him.
Great comment
Never lend a gambler money
Never lend money
There fixed it 😜
or family
@AlexDuvall yeah. I quit lending. I either give it or pass.
Loaning money makes you a gambler lol
The scene in A Bronx Tale is brilliant “so what you gave him $20 he’s out of your life forever you got off easy”
There are too many people saying he owes debts. It's highly unlikely they are all lying, so I think that yes, Tom Dwan is a bad guy when it comes to paying back what he owes. Never make a loan at the poker table, and only loan a friend money if you are comfortable with not being paid back.
The best part is he doesn't dispute barrowing the money. His problem his how upset the people got and decided he didn't have to pay because he was now offended by them being upset. It pretty typical behavior from someone who never had any intention of paying anyone back. I know this all to well.
dont loan it unless you know you can force it out of them. loaning this type of money requires serious consequences if you want to protect your end
"It's highly unlikely they are all lying". Thanks Captain Obvious 😅😅
I disagree, I feel like these rumors all started when he just stopped playing on TV because he was playing the games in Macau, which I have seen interviews with players from those games saying he crushes/is a big winner there? So I really don't believe he owes 'lots' of people money.
@jamesbuchanan2001 Rumors?? There are many people that have come out and given specific examples of Tom's fuckery, and Tom doesn't dispute their validity. Just that he doesn't think he should pay one the person gets pissed and speaks out G
against him.
Loved watching those OG TomDwan videos on YT. Years later kind of sucks to learn he swindled people out of millions not repaying debts
Jungle can be relatively cool about it because Tom has made a lot of significant payments, and I get the impression Jungle has been winning in big games for decades. If that is the case, if you have 100 million, then someone not giving you the last 500k they owe you, which is all profit on top if the million you already got from them, would not very upsetting to most. If Jungle were poor, he would care a lot more.
Bwahahaha you think jungleman or any poker player for that matter has 100 MILLION dollars? 😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@talullahtheegyptianbaladyd4388 it does seem like there are countless stories of "top" pros being broke, and many of them also seems to have backers. If you are a top winning player with great results, surely you would back yourself. But surely, there must be a couple of top players who actually win consistently and don't act like idiots?
@@ML-sj3gi I think backing is part of game, and selling reduces their risk. There are loads of players that you never hear any issue about. Ivey, Patrick a, mikita, true teller, linus l, jungle. And they all play similar games. I heard story bout ivey, someone turned up at his table, he said "I owe you money don't i" and he asked another guy to give him the 20k, and he would sort it later. That's how I would want to be, nobody ever complaining I owed, then you get amazing credit.
@@ML-sj3gi sure there are, im just saying 100 million is a bit far fetched, dan cates is a millionair for sure, but you have take into account a lot of factors. Staking, sponsorship deals, investment schemes, you name it...but 100 million is....well... just a huge overestimation.
@@philphil9347 I wouldn't trust Ivey with my money after all the stories about him though...
It all boils down to him knowing there won't be any consequences for not paying these people. Sad truth, he just knows who to string along like this. Ffs Jungle being owed for a decade and a half is insane.
It's crazy because back when Dwan was new on HSP / televised cash games he would lend others all kinds of money all the time. You'd think a guy that would lend money like that would be the kind of guy you could trust.
They have probably done the same thing to him. This isn’t like the movies, they don’t chase guys around with bats and saws, they just run off 😭
That was fulltilt money.
They used to give the money back in some of the games.
Poker is just fake
@@nsbdbsbsbdbzbz8555 Poker is fake? Lmao that's hilarious
That makes no sense . Why would someone lending money be viewed as trustworthy ? Has nothing to do with paying people back does it ?
Right it shows he's neither prudent nor respectful of capital preservation, probably correlated with bad money sense
I have one best friend, been my friend 30 of my 45 year life.
A couple of years ago we both had the poker bug.
We were at a casino playing and I lost all my cash.
I asked him to lend me a couple of hundreds and he replied :"I don't lend money for poker".
Today I'm glad he didnt give me money and he is still my best friend.
Huh? I would have lent you 200$ lol I think the idea is to not lend money you can't afford not to have it back.
@@Andrei-oj1jzagree, ridiculous comparison
He is not your friend buddy
Sounds like an asshole to me
My buddy and I went to the casino and he lost all his money. I won it all back and then some more and gave it all to him and said we are going straight home. That’s what real friendship is. Not sure about yours.
I'd say he is the perfect ambassador for ACR beeing all shady, and not really trustworthy.
you can just look at him and see hes clearly in the hole overall
Oof
What’s surprising is that he has won some of the largest pots ever that have been televised. I think he is in at least 6-7 of the top all time pot sizes
It's surprising that someone gambling at the very highest level gets into serious money problems.
Winning a pot means jack
Your "we dont have enough information to come to a conclusion" hedge is really good, i appreciate that.
HIs style of play has caught up to him. You watch those high stakes games on TV and he gets really lucky on those big pots.
Exactly. He didn’t “outplay” people
He really just got reckless and lucky
A LOT
I've never understood it how when they're playing, they get stacked and just casually ask someone at the table to lend them $50k or $100k and they do it and just track it with a text message or whatever and I've never heard someone say 'No!'.
I always think the same thing.. makes you think that there is something phony about it.
Different levels of wealth
@@Pick3Lotto They're just richer than you, there's nothing phony about it lmao
@@雪底下😂😂😂
You gotta think these people have millions in the bank and the person who says “yeah! ill lend you 100k” probably asked someone else the same thing a few nights before. Lol
Can't believe that many still dont believe that Tom is in massive debt. It's pretty clear by how many pros that has step forward.
always what i thought form his energy. never do you look at him and think he's happy in life
Wrong try again.
He's definitely not doing well with money, that's very obvious.
This is why I play quarter big blind poker with friends,don’t mind losing $10… imagine being loaned hundreds of thousands to gamble. Sheesh
Millions* @@gamerpspc8421
Dwan borrowed my lighter 12 years ago at the wsop, still hasnt given it back.
😂
In any situation -- not just gambling -- loan money only if you're comfortable with not getting back and losing your "friend."
If you are comfortable with not getting it back you do not have to lose friend.
This one kid from high school owes me $19.99 for a video game rental from Blockbuster back in 1997. I mean, c'mon.. In 2024, money it's like $30. That could get my bank account out of negative.
Bring him to court
A quarter century of late fees, he may owe you six figures today. 😂
Statute barred unenforceable debt.
Tom’s that dude from a Bronx Tale, who owes C twenty dollars!
Giving excuses as he walks/runs away.
Except it’s a looooooooooooooootttttt more than $20 lol
Did you just watch a Bronx take by any chance
Great movie
@@rolandtomassi3486I did
Hahaha
I was in line at a Starbucks a block from the Palms casino in Vegas probably 10-12 years ago and I realized that Tom Dwan was in line right behind me.
I offered to pay for whatever he was getting but he said no.
Now I feel like my money wasn't good enough for him.
I swear that this really did happen.
Did that really happen?!!!????!!!
Yes, really happened.
In 2013 he had a lot of money, he probably just thought it was a strange proposition
Clearly one of his main tactics to delaying making any payments is arguing the amount owed to death and claiming they are “squeezing him” or “taking advantage of the situation” and then not paying anything as a matter of “principle”
When he said it to his face Tom was the colour of a strawberry the whole conversation .
Sure, because when you charge someone with some wrongdoing, it hurts. If I went up to you and called you a murderer, your head wouldn't turn red? That hardly means you're guilty. Allegations are slander my dude, you didn't know that? He literally admitted that Tom has made GOOD on some 700k in penalties. What's more, this is POKER and GAMBLING. If he's genius enough to lend out his money to Tom then he's genius enough to suck it up and wait for the returns. And, he's made over 700K on his initial loans, yet is still slandering him. Sorry, that's on him. Nice try.
@@semasiologistics When did i say he was guilty dickeyes i just pointed out he went red but what do u think everyone is lying and he dosent owe a cent and you saying making good on some kills your point ur basicly saying what the players are saying he still owes us money . Not your best effort trying to be a smart arse but here iv some good news for you its no brain no tumor .
'This man named Peter Jetten' 'after much research, I found NVG stands for...'
Man, you make me feel so old
Lol
No better way to start your day than looking on IG and seeing the guy that owes you $$$ partying and living it up.
Dwan went from being everyone’s favorite player. Confident, cool, calm to a total lowlife
If true. Remember there are always three sides to every story.
@@billybegood466 I don’t need anyone else’s story. I’ve listened to the way he talks in interviews these days and sounds like a total lowlife
@@Nuksukow I tend to agree with you. I watched a recent interview with him and all his responses were deflecting or outright ignoring the issues.
damn
Sorry you're sad bro. I hope you find your way man. Dwan is one of the greats, whether you agree with it or not, no one cares. If he's stressed out and owes people money, tough luck. Next time they will be more responsible with their money. He's made good on his word countless times and paid people back, and rejects like this dude Craig are slandering him anyway. Definitely not a good dude in my book. Tom on the other hand is doing just fine.
soulless eyes tell all
Yeah the look in his eyes heavily changed in the last few years
I could tell something was up with him
Opiates
@@thatApoliticalCoder How u know?
Ya dwan is just a sketchy guy
There’s no such thing as a soul .
Degen. Which is what poker attracts. Same ageless story.
it's what it creates. People get obsessed with gambling. Humans can ruin literally anything if they get obsessed enough.
@@paulcox2447 True. Pretty much everything is ruined. But it is only a few things that specifically rely on competitors that aren’t competitive. Every time the obsessed sit down at the poker table they do so with all the stock justifications of why that uncompetitive fish got what they deserved.
In the end Phil Helmuth was right about Tom
What did he say?
@@RantTherapist He said something to the effect of Tom Dwan not lasting later down the road with his style of play.
What these people describe him as is exactly how people that owe money usually behave. They're all nice and apologetic once you give them time, but soon as you say it's enough, they turn on you like you're the villian. Moral of the story, don't ever borrow money.
I actually think the moral is never LEND money, borrow all you like.
As someone who plays poker regularly, an unwritten rule: I never lend to other players, and I would never ask to be staked. If you cant play with your own bankroll, you shouldn't be playing
then there would not be any high stakes poker.
True statement
If Scotty Nguyen wasn’t lent money, he would never have won the WSOP.
@SiriusV21 People buy action so players can enter tournaments, but if the player loses, the player doesn't have to pay it back. With Dwan, people are saying he took money under different circumstances, and never paid it back.
@@christopherf6717 True, but if they win, they still owe a portion of the winnings and have to honor that.
Never ever loan money to a gambler, because the best you can do overall is break even....
Eventually the luck runs out.
Thanks so much for making this video. I always felt like durrr was a tremendously polarizing figure, and after the fallout after the durrr challenge, it's like a car crash that you can't avert your eyes from. I don't think there's a tremendous amount of nuance, and it might be naive for me to say it, but I feel that Tom Dwan is just a reckless gambler, living over his head, and making choices he's unable to back up financially. I never particularly liked the dude, but i don't think he's a 'horrible' human being, or anything like that. Tremendous video, thx for the update
you said it correctly - Dwana is a reckless gambler, this reckless personality in his genes; he can't help himself! There is no tremendous amount of nuance- all nuances are secondary!
i fucking died when u showed the jt dolan scene
"Two sure ways to lose a friend! One to borrow. The other to lend"
Difference between loaning someone money and winning money off someone and collecting the debt
Absolutely. Dwan should really be blacklisted until he pays his debts. Why would anyone play with him these days when he's known for refusing to pay when he loses?
Can’t believe that guy is in the hole. Such a great player
Well put together researched video.
worst thing you can do is lending money to a gambler
The zoom in on moneymaker and his gobbler was OOL
Mid life someone told me "never borrow money, just gift it" I wish I knew that early on. Do I ever learn? Recently, I borrowed my closest friend $5000 and it's been 7 months and he still owes me $4500. This is absolutely the last time I will ever borrow money to anyone...
You don’t borrow money to anyone . You lend it .
shut your face@@michaelblankenau6598
Superficial and subjective opinion. Honest people do pay back. Sometimes it takes longer, but good people stick to their word.
Didn't he win the largest pot in televised stream?
Probably was staked
Staked and gambled away his side.
Also lost the largest pot in Asia a couple years ago
Dwan looks like a zombie from the walking dead in that thumbnail.
By far the scariest poker player of all time. Shows it with every hand he plays.
It's easy to play as reckless as him when if you lose you just steal millions of dollars off people to keep playing
Yeah, people really have to stop staking him. He isn't built for poker. @@Haanski
I had a friend that used to tell folks he owed money to: "I'll pay you weekly". Later he's tell me the story and he'd add:..."Yeah, I'll pay him weekly,...VERY weakly!" Maybe Tom went to the same finishing school? 🙂
Garnish his sponsorship deal until the debts are paid.
Are gambling debts to other players enforceable legally?
I’m amazed by the number of ‘successful’ pros who go broke and deep in debt. Smart and talented enough to go pro; but, not smart enough to save and invest during a run good period..
Dwan must be broke repping acr lol
Scum site. So rigged and basically robbing people blind
out in the streets waiting for him lol
Whenever I've lent money to poker players I had to kiss it goodbye
Same here
It’s not just poker, some people just don’t like paying back $
@@lolitapitpong3826facts
Lending money to a gambler is like going all in with
72 off suit after the flop (Ace King Queen hearts)
Against Airball that's probably still being ahead though...
@@Deeperharderfasteryou are a very funny person. I like it! 🙋♂️
No it's like you playing hides and sick hahaha hahaha
I'm surprised he hasn't been clipped yet
Dwan bummed a smoke off me once , Said he would get me back one day . Little rascal 😂
He bummed a drag off my last smoke and walked away with it. I want to get em!
now he owes you a pack in interest.
Dwan said he wanted to take my motorcycle for a whirl and the dude just ran off with it. It took 3 days and several threats to call the police for him to give it back.
How do these people begin to do their taxes. It must be a total nightmare.
I was told a long time ago that loaning money is a losing proposition. The best you can hope for is to break even.
Wait until you hear about banks😉
When lending money always stipulate a date to pay. Preferably in writing or text where the party agrees. Verbal works with a witness.
IOUs generally don't hold much in court, promissory note does.
Verbal isn’t required though preferred over one to one oral agreement for obvious reasons.
I stopped watching the video when Doug Polk got on.
Exactly, Doug’s a tool
A rich guy who is out of touch with reality
I used to like his poker content but as I grow up more and more I realize he's just an a-hole.
Just curious how complicated this really goes. I have a feeling a large portion of young pro’s owe each other money. It’s a way to make sure everyone stays connected, a.k.a “collusion”.
I was at a restaurant in Hong Kong with Durr and two poker dealers from our private game and he told told them that he quit smoking And if he did he would pay them 100k (Hong Kong Dollars) each. He paid them 200k before we finished dinner. I doubt he is struggling for money.
Mikki!?
Cap
Lol And I meet Jungle in Rio de Janeiro 2 month ago he was more or less dress up like a chess ♟️ piece, great Guy have to love him ❤
That thumbnail cracks me up Tom looking like he has no clue what is going on lol
so tom owed jungle 200k.. yet has paid over 700k in late fees. somehow I don't feel too bad for jungle on that one.
Na, pretty sure it was a lot more than 200k. Can't remember the exact number but it was 7 figures.
It was 7 figures, not 200k.
He owed way more than that, plus he had penalties for forfeiting the bet, and a bunch of side action on it. You'll notice Patrik paid him when he lost. Tom's just a degenerate.
I learned that when I lend someone money...I don't expect it back. So if I feel like I need it back..then I won't lend any
Jungle (and others) can be reasonably fine not being paid for years for a couple reasons.
One being these guys play for millions of dollars all the time, so they don't view the money the same way as most of us. The other being how long it's been. After years have gone by, they probably reached the point to where they've accepted eating the loss and it's now just a bonus if they ever get any of it back.
It sounds like Jungle has been paid back. The video says Dwan paid 1.3million and still owed 200k but eventually over time has paid nearly 7 figures in interest. If that is true then Jungleman got over 2million on a 1.5million debt. If that isn't true then why is this guy making some bullshit video where he doesn't have any facts?
Back in the late 2000s, Dwan was my poker idol when I first got into the game. It's honestly sad to see him in this situation and with such a different personality now.
How can someone be so smart but so bad with money? If it’s true of course
Because he is a smart person but he is a bad person as well.
Some people who are smart are good people... not all though obviously. Some people are just out for themselves no matter how unethical
He's a poker player
Probably able to keep borrowing because he will be able to say he's +ev in those games. If you have more going out then coming in, there will always be defecit. He could have had more than enough money to not have to borrow again but he must not have saved enough. Always looking for the next action.
ahh its that time of year again when people in search of content say that durr owes money and is hostage in Macau 😂
Maybe he should start a gofundme
Hahahaha that’s a blast from the past, Tom dwan missing held hostage playing cash games in macau 16 hours a day to pay back his Chinese triad backers lol
The statute of limitations for debt is ten years.Tom Dwan is an ambassador for a poker company, so all the money he wins is not his own.
See you got paid 1.3 million out of 1.5 and then got an extra $700,000 on top making it 2 million so you made an extra $500,000 because he paid late and still bitching about it that said😢😂😂😂
Certified public account
That view is idiotic! Firstly don't you realise that having the money immediately rather than over 7 years is worth 10x $500k? Secondly, it's a matter of principle; if the agreement has late payment penalties then it is what it is. Finally, when you borrow money, once you have the means to pay, that is what you should do rather than continue lavish spending or gambling!
Stop defending these scum bag borrowers.
@@ottomanstamper7609 It's as simple as you loan your buddy 20 bucks your buddy doesn't give you the 20 bucks but gives you 40 bucks later for the trouble are you really going to grill him that f****** hard for all the interest and stuff because he didn't give it to you when he was supposed to And yet you still got more money than you loaned I think not people are being asinine because it's millions of dollars... And if it's on a matter of principle and you've made your money back and then some don't loan again to that same person It's not rocket science
One thing I find very odd is that I finished playing poker years ago after a 13 year career. I made about a million and never once owed anyone a single dollar. I was owed about $20,000, which I never got back. Somehow Tom has earned way more than me and still plays big games yet he owes people a fortune.
What gets me is these people all know each other, yet they still lend him money. He takes their money because ultimately they aren't going to do anything about it.
Got to be more behind the scenes
well... if they didn't know each other, would they just lend 6 or 7 figures to someone? Would you lend that amount to a complete stranger? So why is it worth commenting that they know each other?
And yes, they lent him money in the past thinking he was good for it. Once it's been clear he isn't repaying, are they still lending him money?
Is jungle sending money to dwan every few months?
so what is the meaning of your post?
These double non skip ads are challenging
Most regular, pro poker players are bad guys lol. The discussion is always about scams, arbitration, unpaid debts, bots. This is largely a scummy environment. IMO, the only way to play is at a casino and without borrowing any money. That said, that requires not being greedy...
He owes me 75 cents. He needed a mc chicken. He only had a quarter
Just shows that high stakes poker is mostly based on luck since even a player as good as Tom can be down millions.
They all cancel themselves out and every big play is either 50/50 nuts or a bluff.
All the best players seem to make most of their money from running poker related business rather than earning their money at the table
Which is a smart move since. Many Sports Professional have multiple sources of income beside their sport.
True that
I once staked Tom for 12k back in like 2008… paid me back 21k. He’s probably got more problems now than when I knew him personally, but he’s not some degenerate that bucks everyone he owes. Just thought I’d give my 2 cents
All of those pros are broke!
Wrong try again.
he's broke and he hopes world class players are too@@johnparker524
@@johnparker524The truth is that 90% of these pros has much less of a net worth than people assume. Almost none of them has 100% of their own action it is more likely 10-20%.. Neither live or online. These with really big net worth - has their wealth from other incomestreams than poker.
No, they aren't.
I always wondered how they can play so high without fear of variance, it's normal to have streaks of 20 buy ins down at any limit.
With the way Dwan played over the years, its unsurprising that he owes.
I saw him play recklessly loose. And while he won a lot of money that way, he sure as shit lost a lot too.
Kind of reminds me of what happened to Gus Hansen.
The guys that play that wild dont last.
You play like Dwan you get rich quick and broke quicker.
Tom isn't anything great. If he had to only go off of his personal bank roll, he'd been burned through that a decade ago. The only reason he looks like he's some great poker player is because he's using everyone else's money. It's easy to call it all off if you know you can just go borrow more money but if you know you are flat broke if you make a wrong call, you're going to play a lot different. If you have endless amounts of money you can borrow, you can just hero call everytime and look like king shit. But like I said, if Dwan was only able to use his own money, he would've been busto 10 or 15 years ago. He's no better of a player then any other random , competent player, he just has access to lots of money so he can play recklessly
Tom Dwan borrowed 50 cents from me in grade school for a cafeteria chocolate milk and never paid me back. He also borrowed one of my PS1 Mad Catz controllers and NBA Showtime '98 from me and never returned either. Some of us never learn with Tom.
Iron Finance Rule #1 . . . ANY $$$ borrowed by friends and or associates should be considered LOST. Such $$$ should be considered as a gift to said friend or associate with NO expectation of repayment.
Its easy to look like a great poker player if youre just given endless amounts of money to gamble with. You can just call off anything and not have to worry. Eventually you'll win some big pots. But if youre using your own money, and youre liable to go broke , literally, then youre not going to make many of those hero calls. You'll have to play more conservative at times because you know you only have a certain amount of money. But in dwans case , he can lose everything, and its obvious he lost everything many times over or else he wouldn't be borrowing money from everyone, he can just ask for more money when he's busto again. He's not that good, he just has access to unlimited money. Any one of us can do what he does if we had access to endless supply of money
Once someone has a reputation as a bad payer, the bad payer thinks, "fcuk it, why pay now?"
Its sad.. as i understood it, he knows how to play poker but he also gambles?
Hard to believe, hes a great player,as good as anyone out there.
Yes, this dude owes me about $800. Many years ago back in early 2000s i played online with him. Drrrrr was his handle then, anyway he chased me down and went runner, runner spade to win. I put him all in after the turn. But I am the one that coined the phrase "Bink" and it's pissing me off to no end that i'll never get credit for that. The saying used to go. (with Russian accent) " bink" I break you like twig..." after ever take down. But no one knows or cares. Such is my life.
take your meds grandpa
@@雪底下 i'm 34? what is wrong with you? are you stupid? or just a dope? pick one, you only get to pick one. Ready? Go!
Incredibly unfunny. Just give up.
I couldn’t sit next to him consistently playing and joking with him and he still owes me that much money.
I thought this was common knowledge, he been in mass debt since the early 2010s.
They did Durrr dirty with this thumbnail