183rd Street was my station stop on the Third Ave el. I lived on 184th Street between Park and Washington Avenues. (1947 - 1961). The el was torn down in 1973. My old neighborhood brought back to life in this Roger Arcara video. I forwarded this to some of my relatives and friends. Great memories.
My station was 183rd and Third Ave. (the remaining remnant from 149th Street to Gun Hill Road) I rode that line countless times and loved to stand in the front car looking down the tracks. It's more than nostalgia. Our society is quick to tear down and reconstruct.There were, of course, many who opposed removing elevated lines, especially on the subway-poor East Side. According to a blog post from CUNY’s Gotham Center for New York City History, “skeptics questioned the wisdom of summarily displacing the 25,000,000 the Third Avenue El had carried in 1954. Some lawmakers tried to ensure that El service would not be eliminated until construction of the promised new subway began.” We lose our history this way. Cities like Chicago and Philadelphia still have their elevated lines. NYC destroyed ours. The dual contract connections at least saved the remaining elevated structures even though they are not considered true elevateds standing alone.
@@MrJim723 Bring this Thrid Avenue Elevated line back where it was. Both old presidents LaGuardia and Robert mosses is no longer on this earth anymore. Let's move on and put this Thrid Avenue Elevated line back so people could get rolling again.
I dig man. NYC history, especially NYC Transit history, is very important, especially for a native New Yorker like myself. But if you think about it, my motive is not necessarily "nostalgic" when it comes to the Third Avenue El. The El did serve its purpose and it was faster than your Bx55 bus, or any bus for that matter. Back in the early 70s there were groups trying to save the El but the case of urban blight was made (in reality it was property values), which was the real motive...
Everything where the third Avenue L used to be, but traffic is just awful and horrible. The buses the cars no one looks like they’re going anywhere. It’s just awful.
As I watched Roger Arcara's attempt at video documentary, I was whisked back to my Bronx of the 1950s and early 1960's...it was a great time...Jewish Delicatessens on every corner, 2 for $.25 cent hamburgers on Webster Avenue and of course Lorry's burgers at 152nd Street and Third Avenue across from Hearns Department Store at the end of a shopping Saturday at the "Hub" (meaning 149th Street and Third Avenue) before we moved to Queens and all of its suburban placidity...thanks for the memories!...
So well done! I rode the 3rd Ave El as a kid back from 1969-72. I remember seeing the "Low-V" cars on the line then sometime in 1970 or 71 the R12 cars replaced the Low Vs and I think it was the exact cars shown on this vid in the blue and gray paint scheme. Seems now that if had remained, this would have been a well patronized line today. The last time I visited the Bronx, 3rd Ave was pretty busy, especially near 149th Street.
This portion of the old grand 3rd Avenue Line was removed because of alleged low ridership (bull), as was the original Manhattan portion. As a result patrons residing throughout the center of the Bronx are forced to cram into bus after crowded bus and endure horrendous rush hour traffic just to make it to 149 St & Third Avenue to catch the 2/5 subways down below into Manhattan. How in the hell is this called progress? I've taken that trip often enough and to BLOWS! The 149 St Third Avenue 2/5 station can barely accommodate any more pedestrian traffic during rush hours! Not to mention the severely crowded trains pulling in that simply cannot hold any more riders into Manhattan! This was a bad bad call by way of city planning. A stunt started early on by Mayor LaGuardia and the GMC conspiracy. The new 2nd Avenue subway should be amended to include service into the Bronx through this old route and provide the citizens of the middle Bronx accessible inter borough rapid transit once again!
I agree that it was bad planning. They should have kept the 3rd Avenue EL and the 9th Avenue EL even though keeping the 9th Avenue EL would have changed where the new Yankee Stadium would have been built. The 9th Avenue EL would run through part of the Stadium as it joins up with the 4 line. Also getting rid of the 3rd Avenue left a dead spot leaving the Lexington Avenue Subway as the only trains that go to The Bronx by the East Side. The 2 Avenue Subway which has been in the planning stage since the 20's only goes to 96th street right now. I remember when I was going to school they started building the 2nd avenue back in the 70's th-cam.com/video/JWu96SwJVQo/w-d-xo.html and they stopped around 100th Street. Chicago Kept most of it's Elevated Trains. th-cam.com/video/KY0gqpWzycE/w-d-xo.html
@@RedArrow73 Exactly 💯% right. you hit the nail on the nose bro. Some one had fust the TA workers to tair down this 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line down on purpose. if this was a mistake why they torn down this 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated down. The 2 5 lines has the same exact metal steel structures. From what I understand Robert mosses could not stand no extra elevated lines. That's the reason why they have the 8 signs on the R62AS and the 10 12 13 11 9 signs. They definitely need to take some cars off the road over there because it's is mad crowded and worser with out the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line. I'm glad that the mayor Eric Adams said that south Bronx definitely needs Transportation badly. Nothing cannot replace or take over the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line anymore. No matter how many buses they run over there and bus lanes. What goes around comes around. They definitely need to stop 🛑 thinking about what the world needs think about what people need and that was very selfish and a terrible thing to do is to tair down this Thrid Avenue Elevated line down like this. They or to be a shame of they selfs . God 🙏 is gonna definitely work out for the better.
Listen carefully on the News they are definitely gonna extended the Q T trains across west side 125 street and then 137 street to connect to the 1 Broadway line. They are definitely gonna make enough room for the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line to run back to the south Bronx Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx again I'm telling you I have this real spriital feeling that they are definitely gonna bring the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back I'm telling you. Right now the south Bronx Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx is definitely starting to developing again with new affordable houses. So you know something is definitely coming back I'm telling they just don't be rebuilding houses for nothing . They will definitely find another way for the 3 trains could definitely go around the new Yankee stadium to connect to the Jerome Ave 4 line I'm telling you. The engineers will figure it out one way or the other.
The Bronx needs 2 subway lines... They need the 2nd Ave. project from Manhattan to go all the way back along this route. Also the #3 needs to be extended from Harlem up to Highbridge and University Heights.
Amidat I agree with you 100%. It's high time the city/mta undid it's injustice to the residents of the Bronx. Those feeder bus routes to 149 St GC & Third are terrible overcrowded these days and never on time. Those 2 projects you mentioned would save the day.
I agree, but don't hold your breath. Remember that piece of the second ave. line took over 90 years to build. And at times it seems that building any mass transit line (second ave.,Jamaica terminal) seems to cost a billion dollars a mile!
This is so informative! Nearby where I grew up there’s an abandoned El station- “Sedgwick Avenue”. It was apart of the 9th Avenue El. Such a shame when the highways came to The Bronx, down came our buildings & train lines.
What go around comes around what they tair down is what got to be put back together. God. Sits high and look low. What ever president they had in the 70s he made a stupid decision and dum selfish. Alots of people are suffering from that and pissed off.
The 9th Ave El was indeed the first. It started as the Westside & Yonkers Patent Railway which was built and tested in the late 1860's I believe. Pulled by a cable, then steam powered, then electric powered.
I remember that the underground "Enclosed Passageway" free transfer at 149th Street was a very small tunnel with a very low roof. I remember my friend who was 6'2'' tall had be careful not to hit his head on the low ceiling!
When I lived in the Bronx I use to ride this train to school during bad snow weather! It was very reliable but it was almost always empty! I felt a very lonely feeling whenever I would ride it! However it was always comfortable and they had wicker seats!!!! Even though I was very short I could still reach the strap handles because they were closer to the ground than the ones on the subway!!!LOL!!!!! The train was always so empty I basically would have the entire car to myself so I did not need to hold one of those really cool straps!!!! LOL!!!!! The old train will always live in my heart! (sigh)
@@TheLocalLt Yes I remember the 8 signs were baby blue 🔵 And now the 8 signs are in Green like the 4 5 6 colors Lexington Avenue line and the 10 trains are in Green 💚 on the R62AS.
Another thing to I have this real spriital feeling when the brand new R262/as comes out they are probably gonna have those 8 Baby blue 🔵 8 3rd Avenue Elevated computer 🖥️ signs on them.
They were doing the powder blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated rolling signs on the R62AS R62S and the old Thrid Avenue Elevated maps the very very last minute
Thank U very much for this important part of NYC history. I remember riding that line with my Mother and Grandmother getting off and on 183 st walking to Belmont av. .
Excellent and very informative . What a shame they disbanded it. I remember as a kid with my Mother and Grandmother transferring from the Hub at 149 and 3rd going to 183 and Arthur av.They should have let it stand. It would have still been used.
My grandmother's apt is (was) eye level with the station platform @ 169st. She and my uncles told me stories about the riding the El and how they started tearing it down in sections in 1973. My pops said it was called the "8" train in the latter days. I got here in 1980 so its all before my time but I can still visualize the sights and sounds of that old relic but change is inevitable and the era of the original Old "El's" official died when this last hold out was torn down. The last survivor...
Man I really wish that they bring back these elevated railroads that way I will get a chance to ride them for the first time I mean I was born in NYC 1996 which is 23 years right after the 3rd ave El Bronx service was demolished.
+Bmendez378 They still exist, just not in Midtown or Downtown. A lot of lines you just need to be willing to ride long enough, ie in Queens, the 7 is elevated for all but the last two stops before Manhattan (btw i was also born in New York in 1996)
@@bmendez3782 My goal in life is to become the official transit planner of New York City and to have all of them rebuilt so hopefully you will get to ride them.
@@blakemcnamara9105 You are definitely gonna become the New MTA Faisal worker I'm telling you To be honest about it what. They tear down they have to be put back. What. They should of did is to. Check the trestle s and tracks and inspections if they would did that they would still be running today they let this go awaste even though they have they have the Bx15 buses making the old 8 trains stops between Gun Hill road 149 Street and 3rd Avenue it is still heckdid today However what was the sence of putting the second Avenue line back up if they not gonna put the 3rd avenue EL back up ? That did not make sense they mys well better put the 3rd avenue line back up
@@leecornwell1062 Well I appreciate your confidence in me. I'll still try to see if I can do it. And yes they allowed those els to rot to the point that they would have an excuse to tear them down.
You could tell that even those old trains at that time were very well-maintained you could tell because of all the surplus they had near the tracks where they divided they will always fixing them and they always look clean even though they old world
Once the Interborough Rapid Transit Company broke ground for the subway in 1900 and took over all of the elevated railways in Manhattan, the fate of the El's was sealed. Simple business move, Take over the competition and then destroy it. They El's were dismantled in the same order that the new subway was built. 2nd Ave EL went first, followed by the 6th Ave then most of the 9th Ave El with the exception of the Polo grounds shuttle and then the last one and the longest running...The 3rd Ave El.
Actually, the 6th Avenue EL was the first to be demolished in 1938. In 1940, the 2nd Avenue EL (north of 59th Street) and the 9th Avenue ELs were demolished.
@@Larry-qz3es 6th Avenue El closed on 12/4/1938, and demolished in early 1939. 2nd Avenue El (north of 59th Street) and the 9th Avenue El were closed on 6/11/1940 and demolished not too long after.
At 19:19 that curve entering to the 183rd St station is shown in the movie The Seven Ups. On the right of the camera man, is the Lucia Brothers Funeral Home which was the actual name and location in the movie.
You came up in the 70's along with my mom and pops and uncles, so you're referring to what was left of the 3rd avenue El which is the part in the BX that ran from 149th to Gunhill Rd. By that time it was already on its death bed. The head, arms and legs were already amputated so to speak. Only your parents and my grandparents would remember the complete 3rd Ave El that ran from south ferry into the Bronx along with the other 3 Els in Manhattan. And that's if they were living in NYC at that time.
My station was 174th and 3rd Avenue. This film goes from Tremont Avenue (177th Street) to 169th St missing the 174th Street station and Claremont Parkway station.
I was a kid living on 219 st i remember hearing the 3rd ave train leaving gun hill rd so what it had wooden plat forms it carried more passengers then the buses today so sad i lived a station away from gun hill rd
I was to young to ever experience the 3rd Ave. El "8". My grand father though tells me stories how there was an extension that use to go after Fordham Rd. to right to the PARK next to Bronx River Parkway. I was born just after they finished demolishing it. :(
I have seen photos of the station it was called Bronx park terminal. It ws not easy to find but it was worth it because the station was a replica of the green house conservatory in botanical gardens except smaller. My dad was a janitor at Fordham and used to take me to the remnants of the station which was a walkway just off Fordham U near southern blvd. The stone walkway was still intact in the 60's
...for tearing it down. The El had not issues with ridership, it had a solid one. NYC Transit was not losing money at all, they never do, the government wanted to push gentrification motives which date back to Rockefeller and his gang who wanted to take away NYC from the average small businessman and worker to yield the right of way to rich people. That is what is defunct about the system.
@@brycetv_1 Actually the BX 15 is replaceing the BX 55 buses that had replaced the old 8 3rd Avenue elevated line. They had no busines taking the old 3rd Avenue elevated line down in the Bronx. People are suffering for this every sense 1973 up to now to me that was a waste of money . The bus operators are doing the best they can we can not blame the bus operators. Blame the old president that they had back then. The buses is still over crowding something definitely needs to be done we have the city coming back strong. You don't have enough elevated line s people are not gonna come back to new York city anymore. A million s of people was protesting about not taking down the old 3rd Avenue elevated line s but they did it anyway like a dam fool .
All they really had to do is to check the trestle s and tracks and rails and stations and the R14s. That was a dum stupid move. They are gonna get theirs back I'm telling you. They have to be very very careful what they are wishing for. Well the president moss is no longer on this earth anymore. We must go fourth with out him . People are getting sick of tired of seeing no 3rd Avenue elevated line and taking their cars to work. People are missing the Old 3rd Avenue elevated line that really helped out the 2/5/4 trains and the BX 55 buses. What they tair down is what's got to be put back together in place. I'm keeping 100% real. No matter how much they put a bus lanes they need something a little faster.
The 55 bus replaced the 3rd Ave El in the Bronx. I remember the free yellow paper transfer was given to make the connection to the IRT subway (2 & 5 Train) at 149th street. There also was a 55 bus that turned on 161st and ran to River Ave to make a connection to the IRT Lexington Ave line (4 Train).
IF they tair something down put it back just don't let it go to a big waste because the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line is definitely needed right now and they are definitely rebuilding the south Bronx back up again. Something is definitely coming back I'm telling you. No matter how much they hide about the Thrid Avenue Elevated line because it is hunting them right now and they know it.
These lines will definitely excsisted again I'm telling you right now for real. Thrid and ninth Ave Elevated lines is definitely picking up every single day then ever.
It is 8th Avenue technically, but the Polo Grounds Shuttle was the northern most part of the the 9th Avenue Line. It left 155th st and came across to the Bronx on the old Putnam Railroad bridge to Sedgwick Ave. That shuttle was always interesting to me... how it traveled across the river on an old railroad bridge, under a few buildings, then pops out in between 2 buildings to travel across 162st on a viaduct to rise up and merge with the Jerome ave line. That shit was genius engineering...
When did express (center track) service end? I think I saw a map from 1956 or so in which the Manhattan portion was already gone, but express service existed between Tremont and the last stop, 149th. Am I wrong? By the time I started riding the "No 8" train in the '60s and early '70s, it was all-local.
What a mistake it was to tear down that El. Losing that transportation artery further contributed to the decline of the Bronx that started with Robert Moses and the Cross Bronx.
Robert mosses forced the TA workers to tair down the old 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line down. They have all the copies of the old 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back in the days. They cannot hide from The most high God 🙏 God saw everything what went down in 1974 1975 and they are definitely still processing about non stop 🛑 .
Governor LaGuardia and Robert mosses had fusted the TA workers to tair down the Thrid Avenue Elevated line down on purpose. My Question is this why didn't they tair down the 2 5 elevated lines down. But yet tair down the Thrid Avenue Elevated line down? I definitely don't see no sense of taking down the Thrid Avenue and ninth Ave Elevated and five broghoros extra elevated lines down for what. A waste of money. There was nothing wrong with the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line at all. I totally disagree with the lower riderships. That's bull shit. Those two evil bastards and selfish could not stand for no extra elevated lines to be the way it is. I tell you one thing. The ninth Ave and Thrid Avenue Elevated line all coming back I tell you that right now. No matter how much they put a bus lanes and extra buses and all that. Again the ninth Ave and Thrid Avenue Elevated lines are definitely gonna happen again I tell you that right now. No matter how much they tair down extra elevated lines. Thrid Avenue and ninth Ave Elevated lines are definitely picking up every single day like ever before. God had used people to take millions and millions of pictures when the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line was up running and taking it down and filming the Thrid Avenue and sixth and eighth Avenue Elevated lines. They can not hide from God almighty king because God saw everything what went down. God was not pleased. However God is definitely gonna send the right people in office to get this ninth and Third Ave Elevated line running again I'm telling you that right now. People wanna hear what they wanna hear. They don't wanna except the truth. The real truth.
Listen carefully. IF they would of fought the President Robert mosses and governor LaGuardia and the old real estates to keep the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line running without tairing it down. I gearente you the R62AS R62S would of definitely replacing the R12S R14s on the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line right now. Including the Redbirds I'm telling you.
This is an interesting video I'm surprised they have that old footage stored away as if they knew the events within the video were going to happen and they recorded it for reference.
As kids we would sneak in 3 of us on the unmanned uptown side of 180th Street. I was at the subway museum a couple of weeks ago and they had an unmanned token operated turnstyle and I could hardly fit myself let alone two friends! Hey that saved us 30 cents for a couple of slices of pizza (fare was 15 cents) My dad used to take me to the remnants of the Bronx Park terminal-thanks for the memory
Holy Crist! I had known Roger Arcara! through a mutual late friend George E Horn, I had obtained special permission to alight a train at City hall Loop escorted by Roger. There is a gorgeous stain glass rose window in the ceiling to that former entryway to NYC city offices! A rare privilege indeed!
You mentioned TROLLEY service on another video post/reply, ever been to Philly & ride the lines out to West Philly? Or the Heritage Line on Gerard Ave, using real 1940-50's PCC's? Love it
We lived Right in front of the 3rd ave Near Crotona Ave. when I left to school in Mass. I couldn’t sleep. Because it was too quiet. Got used to the train passing by.
Being this el was just a bridge shuttle in poor condition it was torn down but with no plan to replace it. In Boston the Washington st El ( Orange line) was in bad shape but they built the replacement corridor before they took down the el. nyc does things ass backwards
The 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line definitely needs to be brought back to life instead of having the south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx suffering without the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line. All of this pricing that they wanna raise up. Thing about pricing and bringing back the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line where it was.
Good day, this is SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT of SUBWAY.. I would like to see as much footage regarding IRT in the BRONX .. we now only have one letter line assigned the D ( IND ) for my OFFICIALS to use and gain knowledge of how to utilize the ghost tracks
Once you go to Frordam plaza on the Harlem and Connecticut metro North railroad station. You will definitely see the remaining of the Thrid Avenue Elevated wall station structures and the Thrid Avenue Elevated entrance.
Judging by the swelling volume of select bus service, providing crosstown service.... (I dont know). Look at the service on the BK - QB G line, and Frank Ave shuttle, etc.. A line serving the northern end (BX - Manh) area of the city may do some wonders.. One can hope
Of all elevated trains I rode,,this one was the scariest,,stations rattled and sway viciously,,lo I lived two blocks from Fordham Univ and White Castle (188 st Bathgate Ave)
I do agree with you about the greed part It ties into the economics of the city. Either way, the subway system is a permanent part of the city's infrastructure. The city was essentially built around the subway. It can't just be rebuilt, it would be prohibitive expensive, therefore it must me maintained. I'm sure you do remember the state of the subway system in the late 70's to early 80's right? The direct product of neglect.
I don't think that the standard Lo-V trailer cars needed any modification in order to run with the Steinway motor cars since they had compatible AMUE braking systems and they had no motors. The Flushing line never operated trailers due to the steep grades of the Steinway tunnels.
I agree with you... But I think you misread my comment. I said the El's were demolished in the order following the building of the original subway starting with the 2nd Ave El. They were knocked down in a logical order. The original route of the subway started at City Hall, up the east side across 42st to Broadway and up to 145st. So it made sense to knock down the 2nd Ave El first then the 6th and 9th Ave El and finally the 3rd ave El. Interboro didn't need to compete with itself.
Yep..Lower Manhattan was the "City" and Upper Manhattan and the other boroughs were the "Suburbs". Mostly farmland and empty space. As far as my comment, yeah I said subway because I was responding to a comment about why our 100+ year old subway couldn't just simply be rebuilt. Its like having your veins & arteries replaced...Its not possible because it is an integral part of the body. Lets just say the city was built around our early rapid transit system...;)
Really need another train line on the east side of central park. 4,5, and 6 trains are packed and are the 3 main trains in the bronx that are used other than 2 or D trains. 2,4,5,6 need another train to the bronx as even at midnight trains can be packed going uptown.
They could use the 8 /10 trains to 3 Rd Avenue elevated lines between Gun Hill road and 138 Street and 3rd Avenue connections to the Pelham 6 line to helping out the bus operators and leaving their cars home to. That's the reason why they have a bunch of police officer s I'm 100% sure that every body misses the old 8 3rd Avenue elevated line s. All they had to do is to check the trestle tracks and stations . At that time they did not painted the trestles like they do now.
Go for it, you'll enjoy yourself. I visit the city all the time, on day trips.. You can take a Bolt, Mega, or Chinatown bus from NYC for just 10-15 dollars, and arrive right in Phillys Center City.. from there you can take the Broad Street Subway, as well as the Market-Fran subway to the trolley lines and enjoy yourself. Get some GOOD Philly food too, excellent day trip..
I wish they rebuilt all els in New York, but with base-isolated track, pillars relocated to outside of the curbside, and wheels with variable taper in order to prevent flage contact altogether just like with upgraded trains and bullet trains in Asia and Europe. That would enable New York to return the iconic aesthetics of its historic els while still ensuring a whisper quiet experience and giving a unique world-class sightseeing experience just like with Chicago's Loop. Unlike the CTA L however, my proposal would have a Business Class car in every trainset (just like with commuter rail in Asia, especially Green Cars in Japan) that travels on elevated lines in order to ensure that sightseers get a great experience from having a comfortable ride with a luxurious interior free from homeless. The Business Class fares for tourists and upper class commuters would also cost many (perhaps a dozen) times more than a standard fare in order to subsidize the low-income commuters in order to ensure the financial security of the railway operator so that future generations can continue to enjoy the elevated signseeing experience on infrastructure maintained to certified pre-owned like-new condition. I bet that such a modern el (but with historic aesthetics) built to my high standards would still be way cheaper than tunnelling the Second Avenue Subway through ultra-hard metamorphic schist rock hundreds of feet underground. After all, even the economically much-worse-off Philly was able to completely rebuild the Market Street western elevated portion of the Market-Frankford Line (including the foundations of the pillars) in the 2000s to a modern concrete structure, though I'm not sure whether floating slab track was used or not. Not having variable wheel taper is not a problem on the Market-Frankfort Elevated because there are no sharp curves. Perhaps Chicago's el's weren't demolished because the original builders went the extra mile to lengthen the transverse girders in order to be able to place the pillars on the sidewalk or place the els over alleys alltogether, both in order to not block horse and automotive traffic? That is unlike New York, where the pillars were placed in the middle of the street on most elevated lines presumable to save money on having shorter transverse girders.
Chances in the Boggie down south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx brand new Thrid Avenue Elevated line only in south Bronx. Never rebuild another elevated line in Manhattan again. There are definitely studying on that.
i lived at 205th st and grand concourse and than 201st and valenetine ave. i rode on da 3rd ave el from 1971 to da day they closed it in 73. Charlie Muller Jr.
So the part that was left in the Bronx didn't make much sense, It didn't have its own route or direct connection to the subway. An indirect transfer to the 2/5 at 149th street which required you to leave the El and walk downstairs into the subway and at Gunhill Rd. it just merged back into the 2/5 line again. Just replace it with a bus which is what happened with the BX55. It ran to Fordham Rd, Gunhill Road and across 161st to the 4 train at River Ave. Less Nostalgic...More Logic... :)
Not only were the consists limited to 4 cars but the dynamic brakes were disconnected and the controllers rewired to eliminate the parallel (fastest) notch. The Lo-V cars which preceded them did not have dynamic brakes and were somewhat lighter so they were a better fit for the old elevated structure. However by the time they were replaced they were 50+ years old and well past their designed life expectancy.
The 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated should of been left alone and never had taken down. All they had to do is to shut down the 3rd Ave Elevated line down instead of talking it down and do a complete over hual inspections on the Track frames trestles and beams until they decide to run the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back. Look at the ninth Ave Elevated line at Jerome Ave Elevated line under neath the 4 train they have the whole entire trestle and not even a half of track frames. At Gun Hill Road they have half of the track frames trestle.
I have a question when is sixth Avenue getting CBTCS?. You know that the A C lines is getting CBTCS first. How is the B trains is getting R160s R211As if the B N W Q Trains is not getting CBTCS for a good while.
The B is definitely keeping the R68/As because they are not getting no CBTCS until the R268/As comes to replace all the R68S R68AS on the B D N Q W lines. The B is definitely gonna have mix equipments R160s R68AS. The R211As R211Ts are definitely replacing all the R46S on the A C lines for CBTCS first and the G also getting CBTCS and the F lines between church Ave and Coney island. You definitely know that Staten island Rail way it definitely getting the R211S . to replace all R44S.
It will definitely be the R262As close ways or the R342As will definitely replacing all the R12 R14s that used to run on the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line.
Yes I know the L trains that runs in Brooklyn. The Thrid Avenue Elevated line was call the iRT 8 trains between Gun hill road Clearmount Webster Ave Bronx and south Ferry. In 1958 they have cut off the elevated line between south Ferry and 149 street Thrid Avenue Elevated line.
If the 3rd Avenue El still existed then I would board a Bronx bound Dyre Avenue El to take from Kingsbridge Road to Gun Hill Road, once at Gun Hill Road I would transfer to the 3rd Avenue El on the lower level of the Gun Hill Road station, I would take the 3rd Avenue to 149th Street we would cross over Mosholu Parkway on the viaduct, once getting to the 149th Street station I would transfer to the Jerome Avenue El from 149th Street-Grand Concourse to Woodlawn, and if there was a 42nd Street, 125th Street, 124th Street, 138th Street, 149th Street, Mosholu Parkway, Jerome Avenue, 233rd Street, Van Cortland Park East, and Katonah Avenue shuttle aka the 12 train from the elevated Woodlawn station on the Jerome Avenue El to the Jerome Avenue extended underground station at Woodlawn-Bainbridge/Jerome Avenues, then I would go from the Woodlawn-Bainbridge/Jerome Avenues station below the Woodlawn elevated station to the Woodlawn Heights-Martha/McLean Avenues station at the Bronx-Westchester County line and the Woodlawn Yonkers section line, here’s how it would go from The Bronx/Yonkers to Manhattan: Woodlawn Heights-Martha/McLean Avenues Katonah Avenue-Patty’s Field Katonah Avenue-East 237th Street Van Cortland Park East-Katonah Avenue Van Cortland Park East 233rd Street Jerome Avenue-East 233rd Street Jerome Avenue Woodlawn-Bainbridge/Jerome Avenues Mosholu Parkway East Mosholu Parkway North Mosholu Parkway-Van Cortland Avenue East Mosholu Parkway-Golden Avenue Grand Concourse 149th Street East 149th Street West 149th Street 3rd Avenue-149th Street 149th Street-Grand Concourse 138th Street East 138th Street West 138th Street 3rd Avenue-138th Street 138th Street-Grand Concourse 124th Street East 124th Street West 124th Street 3rd Avenue-124th Street Harlem-124th Street 125th Street East 125th Street West 125th Street 3rd Avenue-125th Street Harlem-125th Street 42nd Street-Port Authority Bus Terminal 42nd Street-Bryant Park Times Square-42nd Street 5th Avenue-42nd Street Grand Central-42nd Street And from Manhattan to The Bronx/Yonkers: Grand Central-42nd Street 5th Avenue-42nd Street Times Square-42nd Street 42nd Street-Bryant Park 42nd Street-Port Authority Bus Terminal Harlem-125th Street 3rd Avenue-125th Street West 125th Street East 125th Street 125th Street Harlem-124th Street 3rd Avenue-124th Street West 124th Street East 124th Street 124th Street 138th Street-Grand Concourse 3rd Avenue-138th Street West 138th Street East 138th Street 138th Street 149th Street-Grand Concourse 3rd Avenue-149th Street West 149th Street East 149th Street 149th Street Grand Concourse Mosholu Parkway-Golden Avenue Mosholu Parkway-Van Cortlandt Avenue East East Mosholu Parkway North Mosholu Parkway Woodlawn-Bainbridge/Jerome Avenues Jerome Avenue Jerome Avenue-East 233rd Street 233rd Street Van Cortlandt Park East Van Cortland Park East-Katonah Avenue Katonah Avenue-East 237th Street Katonah Avenue-Patty’s Field Woodlawn Heights-Martha/McLean Avenues
They should never taken down the 3rd avenue 8 train line what was the sence they building the second Avenue line if they not going to put no 3rd Avenue elevated line?
That 3rd Avenue elevated line is coming back I'm telling you. They was talking about expanded more subways lines. It's gonna take more more years to do that
Ok you may be right to a certain extent. Then I can say that NYC is still stuck because we still depend on a 100+ year old subway system and on the highways that were built over 50 years ago. Why don't we tear those down? If those are still standing then the Third Avenue El should have that right too. It's those at the top who enjoy tearing things up to make money, as if the existing structures already don't make enough. there is something called greed, and greed does not = progress.
Sure could use these EL's today. Notice, when they show the streets, how much traffic there was back then. If they had known how congested city streets would become, I think they would have kept the elevated subway lines.
You said The city was essentially built around the subway' there was a city before the subway were built LOL, before the EL upper manhattan was pretty much Rural undeveloped land, when the EL'S came it's turn into city neighborhoods
Great Story But Damn Why They Torn Down 3rd Ave Subway Line? Now These Day U Do Need It For Sure! I Live In The Bronx Near By 3rd Ave 55 Bus Now Just The 15 Bus Run There Alot Of Time It Would Be Pack At Time! We Do Need That Line Again!
It's called GENERAL MOTORS! This is carryover from their infamous NCL scandal to de-electrify America's public transport system. Please take note all those GM 'Fishbowls" (MABSTOA) taking 3rd Ave's place! This is why 3rd Ave came down! If only it could have been registered as National Treasure (historical landmark) It would have been still be around today! This is why I personally boycott GM (this despite their Volt, Bolt and Spark cars) I would not even invest in a COTTER PIN from them (it might fall apart)! GM = Genital Monopoly -- the Mark of Excrement!
One stops to wonder about the investments in mass transportation. By now, NYC should have super monorails going up the east and west side of Manhattan into the other boroughs. How did they build all those elevated lines or even the subways? Instead, they can barely get a 2 mile subway line completed that started in 2007, and was supposed to be done by the 1940s originally. I could see dismantling 3rd Ave el, but refurbish 2nd Av would've been way cheaper than this subway fiasco. Clearly the els were ragged and ugly by 1955, way past prime. We see originally businesses invested in late 1800s, got investor money to sock in, but found out quickly wasn't cost effective to maintain and run a railroad. The government stepped in to help because clearly the economy of NYC is dependent on the subway. Seems since WW2 the price of beating Hitler was to feed the military monster born to fend him off. Notice defense spending has increased almost exponentially to transportation projects (highway and mass transit) since 1945. And we see the result nationwide. Let's tell the next President, Governor and Mayors, it's time for someone to step up and fund these things again...while tracking waste. Waste and abuse of union rules for OT that isn't really worked, things of that nature, have to stop, too. It isn't just how much money we throw at it.
They are working on that now . I say that because you have to remember new York city is a bissy city in the Bronx. The bus operators are doing the best they could. Don't blame the MTA bus operators blame the old president they had a long time ago. He is no longer here anymore . However they will definitely bring it back to life and stronger and better it will take time. Never say never so could this. Why do you think that they are building the second Avenue subway line back think about it.
Once the city started the planning of the subway in the late 1890's the death of the original Elevated Lines was inevitable. They were noisy, decrepit, costly to maintain, and they made the streets below look like caves. I'm a fan of NYC's Rapid Transit system, I believe its an engineering marvel and to think, it only took them 4 years to construct the entire first section of the subway from City Hall to 145st & Broadway... The Subway killed the old "Els" just like the bus killed the trolley.
Crosstown El's didn't make any sense. There were a few cross town spurs on various lines that didn't see much service. They were abandoned pretty much right after they were opened. The trolleys were more effective at serving crosstown routes. Shit..at one point there were horse drawn carriages still on the streets with the pedestrians, trolleys, cars and the El's running overhead. All in Manhattan...What a mess that had to be.
There's definitely a way to rebuild and restore the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated back without making to much noises anymore and Quieter. That's the reason why they have the new engineers to trainned them how to rebuild the extra elevated subway lines back and even stronger like ever 💪 before.
Who syas you can't go back. If we are aiming now in cutting on automobile traffic, then why not "rebuild" the Third Avenue El? This is a great way to invest in infrastructure and promote more use of mass transit. Dig it?!
Mater of fact they are definitely gonna rebuilding the Thrid and ninth Ave Elevated line back I tell you that right now when they build the Brand New R262/As with open gateways and the End ways to replace all the R12 R14s on the Thrid Avenue Elevated line. However they are definitely starting to developing again with Affordable houses and other businesses between Gun hill road Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx. It's not beat down anymore. Another thing it's definitely gonna happen is this . The Q T trains will definitely run across west side 125 street and then 137 street to connect to the 1 Broadway line. I have seeing it on the map where they have the curve for East 125 street to Lexington Avenue connecting to the 4 5 6 and the metro North railroad. They are definitely making enough room for the 8 or the 10 trains to run on the Thrid Avenue Elevated line in Manhattan under ground and above ground in the South Bronx.
My Question is this how could the subway run on the same exact tracks were the Harlem metro North railroad runs through woodland and Wakefield or Gun hill road?
Matter of fact. Thrid Avenue Elevated has a chance in the south Bronx Tremont Webster Boston road Bronx. Never rebuild another elevated line in the again.
I disagree... We do effect change to a degree but It is not a cliche. Change is a constant just like the speed of light. Its called progression. Does not the Earth still rotate while you are asleep? One of the most endearing traits bestowed upon us by our creator is adaptation. We can live on beach in St. Thomas or in a log cabin in Alaska. How many species can adapt to an ever changing environment as well as we do? There's a difference between being nostalgic and being stuck in the past.
183rd Street was my station stop on the Third Ave el. I lived on 184th Street between Park and Washington Avenues. (1947 - 1961). The el was torn down in 1973. My old neighborhood brought back to life in this Roger Arcara video. I forwarded this to some of my relatives and friends. Great memories.
I was 180th but ended up working at St Barnabas on 183rd . I remember the spur remments because my dad showed us where that stop was.
My station was 183rd and Third Ave. (the remaining remnant from 149th Street to Gun Hill Road) I rode that line countless times and loved to stand in the front car looking down the tracks. It's more than nostalgia. Our society is quick to tear down and reconstruct.There were, of course, many who opposed removing elevated lines, especially on the subway-poor East Side. According to a blog post from CUNY’s Gotham Center for New York City History, “skeptics questioned the wisdom of summarily displacing the 25,000,000 the Third Avenue El had carried in 1954. Some lawmakers tried to ensure that El service would not be eliminated until construction of the promised new subway began.” We lose our history this way. Cities like Chicago and Philadelphia still have their elevated lines. NYC destroyed ours. The dual contract connections at least saved the remaining elevated structures even though they are not considered true elevateds standing alone.
I was one down-180th Street but I ended up working at St Barnabas
Small wonder so many of us mimicked the 3rd Ave. el by getting the el out of there.
😉
@@MrJim723 Bring this Thrid Avenue Elevated line back where it was. Both old presidents LaGuardia and Robert mosses is no longer on this earth anymore. Let's move on and put this Thrid Avenue Elevated line back so people could get rolling again.
I dig man. NYC history, especially NYC Transit history, is very important, especially for a native New Yorker like myself. But if you think about it, my motive is not necessarily "nostalgic" when it comes to the Third Avenue El. The El did serve its purpose and it was faster than your Bx55 bus, or any bus for that matter. Back in the early 70s there were groups trying to save the El but the case of urban blight was made (in reality it was property values), which was the real motive...
Everything where the third Avenue L used to be, but traffic is just awful and horrible. The buses the cars no one looks like they’re going anywhere. It’s just awful.
As I watched Roger Arcara's attempt at video documentary, I was whisked back to my Bronx of the 1950s and early 1960's...it was a great time...Jewish Delicatessens on every corner, 2 for $.25 cent hamburgers on Webster Avenue and of course Lorry's burgers at 152nd Street and Third Avenue across from Hearns Department Store at the end of a shopping Saturday at the "Hub" (meaning 149th Street and Third Avenue) before we moved to Queens and all of its suburban placidity...thanks for the memories!...
So well done! I rode the 3rd Ave El as a kid back from 1969-72. I remember seeing the "Low-V" cars on the line then sometime in 1970 or 71 the R12 cars replaced the Low Vs and I think it was the exact cars shown on this vid in the blue and gray paint scheme. Seems now that if had remained, this would have been a well patronized line today. The last time I visited the Bronx, 3rd Ave was pretty busy, especially near 149th Street.
This portion of the old grand 3rd Avenue Line was removed because of alleged low ridership (bull), as was the original Manhattan portion. As a result patrons residing throughout the center of the Bronx are forced to cram into bus after crowded bus and endure horrendous rush hour traffic just to make it to 149 St & Third Avenue to catch the 2/5 subways down below into Manhattan. How in the hell is this called progress? I've taken that trip often enough and to BLOWS! The 149 St Third Avenue 2/5 station can barely accommodate any more pedestrian traffic during rush hours! Not to mention the severely crowded trains pulling in that simply cannot hold any more riders into Manhattan! This was a bad bad call by way of city planning. A stunt started early on by Mayor LaGuardia and the GMC conspiracy. The new 2nd Avenue subway should be amended to include service into the Bronx through this old route and provide the citizens of the middle Bronx accessible inter borough rapid transit once again!
Tell em, bro.
National City Lines, bro.
I agree that it was bad planning. They should have kept the 3rd Avenue EL and the 9th Avenue EL even though keeping the 9th Avenue EL would have changed where the new Yankee Stadium would have been built. The 9th Avenue EL would run through part of the Stadium as it joins up with the 4 line. Also getting rid of the 3rd Avenue left a dead spot leaving the Lexington Avenue Subway as the only trains that go to The Bronx by the East Side. The 2 Avenue Subway which has been in the planning stage since the 20's only goes to 96th street right now. I remember when I was going to school they started building the 2nd avenue back in the 70's th-cam.com/video/JWu96SwJVQo/w-d-xo.html and they stopped around 100th Street. Chicago Kept most of it's Elevated Trains. th-cam.com/video/KY0gqpWzycE/w-d-xo.html
@@RedArrow73 Exactly 💯% right. you hit the nail on the nose bro. Some one had fust the TA workers to tair down this 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line down on purpose. if this was a mistake why they torn down this 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated down. The 2 5 lines has the same exact metal steel structures. From what I understand Robert mosses could not stand no extra elevated lines. That's the reason why they have the 8 signs on the R62AS and the 10 12 13 11 9 signs. They definitely need to take some cars off the road over there because it's is mad crowded and worser with out the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line. I'm glad that the mayor Eric Adams said that south Bronx definitely needs Transportation badly. Nothing cannot replace or take over the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line anymore. No matter how many buses they run over there and bus lanes. What goes around comes around. They definitely need to stop 🛑 thinking about what the world needs think about what people need and that was very selfish and a terrible thing to do is to tair down this Thrid Avenue Elevated line down like this. They or to be a shame of they selfs . God 🙏 is gonna definitely work out for the better.
Listen carefully on the News they are definitely gonna extended the Q T trains across west side 125 street and then 137 street to connect to the 1 Broadway line. They are definitely gonna make enough room for the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line to run back to the south Bronx Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx again I'm telling you I have this real spriital feeling that they are definitely gonna bring the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back I'm telling you. Right now the south Bronx Clearmount Avenue Webster Ave Bronx is definitely starting to developing again with new affordable houses. So you know something is definitely coming back I'm telling they just don't be rebuilding houses for nothing
. They will definitely find another way for the 3 trains could definitely go around the new Yankee stadium to connect to the Jerome Ave 4 line I'm telling you. The engineers will figure it out one way or the other.
Amazing how they replaced clean electric trains with diesel busses.
❤ ❤❤❤
The Bronx needs 2 subway lines... They need the 2nd Ave. project from Manhattan to go all the way back along this route. Also the #3 needs to be extended from Harlem up to Highbridge and University Heights.
Amidat I agree with you 100%. It's high time the city/mta undid it's injustice to the residents of the Bronx. Those feeder bus routes to 149 St GC & Third are terrible overcrowded these days and never on time. Those 2 projects you mentioned would save the day.
I agree, but don't hold your breath. Remember that piece of the second ave. line took over 90 years to build. And at times it seems that building any mass transit line (second ave.,Jamaica terminal) seems to cost a billion dollars a mile!
Phase 2 is projected to be completed at around 2027, sooooo
They should rebuild the whole El system.
@@j3lny425 best investment in mass transit we could make
than you for preserving this rich history of the 3rd ave el
Thank you for this video. I was too young to remember ever riding the El before its demolition...but wish I had if I didn't.
This is so informative! Nearby where I grew up there’s an abandoned El station- “Sedgwick Avenue”. It was apart of the 9th Avenue El. Such a shame when the highways came to The Bronx, down came our buildings & train lines.
What go around comes around what they tair down is what got to be put back together. God. Sits high and look low. What ever president they had in the 70s he made a stupid decision and dum selfish. Alots of people are suffering from that and pissed off.
You could never sleep on the 3rd Avenue elevated line . Things is going to get better. God see all of this going on
The 9th Ave El was indeed the first. It started as the Westside & Yonkers Patent Railway which was built and tested in the late 1860's I believe. Pulled by a cable, then steam powered, then electric powered.
i went to school from manhattan to the bronx from 1968-1971. i would catch the third ave el at 149th street station from riding the number five train.
I remember that the underground "Enclosed Passageway" free transfer at 149th Street was a very small tunnel with a very low roof. I remember my friend who was 6'2'' tall had be careful not to hit his head on the low ceiling!
people were shorter then. really
It’s still there it’s just not open to the public
Ah when it was the paper transfer that you had to put in the box!
When I lived in the Bronx I use to ride this train to school during bad snow weather! It was very reliable but it was almost always empty! I felt a very lonely feeling whenever I would ride it! However it was always comfortable and they had wicker seats!!!! Even though I was very short I could still reach the strap handles because they were closer to the ground than the ones on the subway!!!LOL!!!!! The train was always so empty I basically would have the entire car to myself so I did not need to hold one of those really cool straps!!!! LOL!!!!! The old train will always live in my heart! (sigh)
BingCherry11 do you remember it being the light blue #8 Train?
@@TheLocalLt Yes I remember the 8 signs were baby blue 🔵 And now the 8 signs are in Green like the 4 5 6 colors Lexington Avenue line and the 10 trains are in Green 💚 on the R62AS.
Another thing to I have this real spriital feeling when the brand new R262/as comes out they are probably gonna have those 8 Baby blue 🔵 8 3rd Avenue Elevated computer 🖥️ signs on them.
@@leecornwell5632 From what I understand since commenting, they were never actually used on train rollsigns, only on maps
They were doing the powder blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated rolling signs on the R62AS R62S and the old Thrid Avenue Elevated maps the very very last minute
The Bronx of my youth. My brother and I traveled this el to visit our aunts and go shopping on Third Ave.
Thank U very much for this important part of NYC history. I remember riding that line with my Mother and Grandmother getting off and on 183 st walking to Belmont av. .
No wikipedia article for Roger, think he deserves one.
Excellent and very informative . What a shame they disbanded it. I remember as a kid with my Mother and Grandmother transferring from the Hub at 149 and 3rd going to 183 and Arthur av.They should have let it stand. It would have still been used.
My grandmother's apt is (was) eye level with the station platform @ 169st. She and my uncles told me stories about the riding the El and how they started tearing it down in sections in 1973. My pops said it was called the "8" train in the latter days. I got here in 1980 so its all before my time but I can still visualize the sights and sounds of that old relic but change is inevitable and the era of the original Old "El's" official died when this last hold out was torn down. The last survivor...
Man I really wish that they bring back these elevated railroads that way I will get a chance to ride them for the first time I mean I was born in NYC 1996 which is 23 years right after the 3rd ave El Bronx service was demolished.
+Bmendez378 They still exist, just not in Midtown or Downtown. A lot of lines you just need to be willing to ride long enough, ie in Queens, the 7 is elevated for all but the last two stops before Manhattan (btw i was also born in New York in 1996)
Bmendez378 I know they still exist but I am talking about the ones before they were demolished not the ones now
@@bmendez3782 My goal in life is to become the official transit planner of New York City and to have all of them rebuilt so hopefully you will get to ride them.
@@blakemcnamara9105 You are definitely gonna become the New MTA Faisal worker I'm telling you To be honest about it what. They tear down they have to be put back. What. They should of did is to. Check the trestle s and tracks and inspections if they would did that they would still be running today they let this go awaste even though they have they have the Bx15 buses making the old 8 trains stops between Gun Hill road 149 Street and 3rd Avenue it is still heckdid today However what was the sence of putting the second Avenue line back up if they not gonna put the 3rd avenue EL back up ? That did not make sense they mys well better put the 3rd avenue line back up
@@leecornwell1062 Well I appreciate your confidence in me. I'll still try to see if I can do it. And yes they allowed those els to rot to the point that they would have an excuse to tear them down.
You could tell that even those old trains at that time were very well-maintained you could tell because of all the surplus they had near the tracks where they divided they will always fixing them and they always look clean even though they old world
Once the Interborough Rapid Transit Company broke ground for the subway in 1900 and took over all of the elevated railways in Manhattan, the fate of the El's was sealed. Simple business move, Take over the competition and then destroy it. They El's were dismantled in the same order that the new subway was built. 2nd Ave EL went first, followed by the 6th Ave then most of the 9th Ave El with the exception of the Polo grounds shuttle and then the last one and the longest running...The 3rd Ave El.
Actually, the 6th Avenue EL was the first to be demolished in 1938. In 1940, the 2nd Avenue EL (north of 59th Street) and the 9th Avenue ELs were demolished.
@@Larry-qz3es 6th Avenue El closed on 12/4/1938, and demolished in early 1939.
2nd Avenue El (north of 59th Street) and the 9th Avenue El were closed on 6/11/1940 and demolished not too long after.
At 19:19 that curve entering to the 183rd St station is shown in the movie The Seven Ups. On the right of the camera man, is the Lucia Brothers Funeral Home which was the actual name and location in the movie.
You came up in the 70's along with my mom and pops and uncles, so you're referring to what was left of the 3rd avenue El which is the part in the BX that ran from 149th to Gunhill Rd. By that time it was already on its death bed. The head, arms and legs were already amputated so to speak. Only your parents and my grandparents would remember the complete 3rd Ave El that ran from south ferry into the Bronx along with the other 3 Els in Manhattan. And that's if they were living in NYC at that time.
If you ride up to Gun hill road you will see half of the track frames trestles when you get off the 2 train 🚃 at white plains road Gun hill road 🛣️.
The Bronx of my parents time
My station was 174th and 3rd Avenue. This film goes from Tremont Avenue (177th Street) to 169th St missing the 174th Street station and Claremont Parkway station.
I was a kid living on 219 st i remember hearing the 3rd ave train leaving gun hill rd so what it had wooden plat forms it carried more passengers then the buses today so sad i lived a station away from gun hill rd
I was to young to ever experience the 3rd Ave. El "8". My grand father though tells me stories how there was an extension that use to go after Fordham Rd. to right to the PARK next to Bronx River Parkway. I was born just after they finished demolishing it. :(
I have seen photos of the station it was called Bronx park terminal. It ws not easy to find but it was worth it because the station was a replica of the green house conservatory in botanical gardens except smaller. My dad was a janitor at Fordham and used to take me to the remnants of the station which was a walkway just off Fordham U near southern blvd. The stone walkway was still intact in the 60's
...for tearing it down. The El had not issues with ridership, it had a solid one. NYC Transit was not losing money at all, they never do, the government wanted to push gentrification motives which date back to Rockefeller and his gang who wanted to take away NYC from the average small businessman and worker to yield the right of way to rich people. That is what is defunct about the system.
Actually no, they replaced the train with the D train after this and added the 41 bus as well
@@brycetv_1 Actually the BX 15 is replaceing the BX 55 buses that had replaced the old 8 3rd Avenue elevated line. They had no busines taking the old 3rd Avenue elevated line down in the Bronx. People are suffering for this every sense 1973 up to now to me that was a waste of money . The bus operators are doing the best they can we can not blame the bus operators. Blame the old president that they had back then. The buses is still over crowding something definitely needs to be done we have the city coming back strong. You don't have enough elevated line s people are not gonna come back to new York city anymore. A million s of people was protesting about not taking down the old 3rd Avenue elevated line s but they did it anyway like a dam fool .
@@leecornwell1062 Robert Moses?
@@RedArrow73 What go around comes around . God will bring it to the light.
All they really had to do is to check the trestle s and tracks and rails and stations and the R14s. That was a dum stupid move. They are gonna get theirs back I'm telling you. They have to be very very careful what they are wishing for. Well the president moss is no longer on this earth anymore. We must go fourth with out him . People are getting sick of tired of seeing no 3rd Avenue elevated line and taking their cars to work. People are missing the Old 3rd Avenue elevated line that really helped out the 2/5/4 trains and the BX 55 buses. What they tair down is what's got to be put back together in place. I'm keeping 100% real. No matter how much they put a bus lanes they need something a little faster.
Thanks for the video, it's was great,,!!!history is awesome" ,,,
The 55 bus replaced the 3rd Ave El in the Bronx. I remember the free yellow paper transfer was given to make the connection to the IRT subway (2 & 5 Train) at 149th street. There also was a 55 bus that turned on 161st and ran to River Ave to make a connection to the IRT Lexington Ave line (4 Train).
I don't know why they took the BX 55 buses away and put the 15 buses they should of left the 55 buses alone
And the 3rd Avenue line Alone to that was the dummest thing to do let this go a waste
IF they tair something down put it back just don't let it go to a big waste because the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line is definitely needed right now and they are definitely rebuilding the south Bronx back up again. Something is definitely coming back I'm telling you. No matter how much they hide about the Thrid Avenue Elevated line because it is hunting them right now and they know it.
I wish this line still existed!!!!
These lines will definitely excsisted again I'm telling you right now for real. Thrid and ninth Ave Elevated lines is definitely picking up every single day then ever.
My station was 170th.Crotona Ave. The best of days. We grew up there and played under the Tracks. People cried when it was being knocked down.
i remember da old 3rd ave el in da bronx. i rode on it before it was torn down.
Charlie Muller Jr
It is 8th Avenue technically, but the Polo Grounds Shuttle was the northern most part of the the 9th Avenue Line. It left 155th st and came across to the Bronx on the old Putnam Railroad bridge to Sedgwick Ave. That shuttle was always interesting to me... how it traveled across the river on an old railroad bridge, under a few buildings, then pops out in between 2 buildings to travel across 162st on a viaduct to rise up and merge with the Jerome ave line.
That shit was genius engineering...
When did express (center track) service end? I think I saw a map from 1956 or so in which the Manhattan portion was already gone, but express service existed between Tremont and the last stop, 149th. Am I wrong? By the time I started riding the "No 8" train in the '60s and early '70s, it was all-local.
Damn PLEASE preserve however you can please preserve this is history.
What a mistake it was to tear down that El. Losing that transportation artery further contributed to the decline of the Bronx that started with Robert Moses and the Cross Bronx.
Robert mosses forced the TA workers to tair down the old 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line down. They have all the copies of the old 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back in the days. They cannot hide from The most high God 🙏 God saw everything what went down in 1974 1975 and they are definitely still processing about non stop 🛑 .
Look at the comments every single day the 8 3rd Ave Elevated line is popping back up like crazy like ever before right now.
Governor LaGuardia and Robert mosses had fusted the TA workers to tair down the Thrid Avenue Elevated line down on purpose. My Question is this why didn't they tair down the 2 5 elevated lines down. But yet tair down the Thrid Avenue Elevated line down? I definitely don't see no sense of taking down the Thrid Avenue and ninth Ave Elevated and five broghoros extra elevated lines down for what. A waste of money. There was nothing wrong with the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line at all. I totally disagree with the lower riderships. That's bull shit. Those two evil bastards and selfish could not stand for no extra elevated lines to be the way it is. I tell you one thing. The ninth Ave and Thrid Avenue Elevated line all coming back I tell you that right now. No matter how much they put a bus lanes and extra buses and all that. Again the ninth Ave and Thrid Avenue Elevated lines are definitely gonna happen again I tell you that right now. No matter how much they tair down extra elevated lines. Thrid Avenue and ninth Ave Elevated lines are definitely picking up every single day like ever before. God had used people to take millions and millions of pictures when the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line was up running and taking it down and filming the Thrid Avenue and sixth and eighth Avenue Elevated lines. They can not hide from God almighty king because God saw everything what went down. God was not pleased. However God is definitely gonna send the right people in office to get this ninth and Third Ave Elevated line running again I'm telling you that right now. People wanna hear what they wanna hear. They don't wanna except the truth. The real truth.
the low v subway cars were still on the third ave in the fall of 1968.and yes, the r-12 s did replace the low v cars.
Yes . The R12 R14s had replacing the low V cars.
Listen carefully. IF they would of fought the President Robert mosses and governor LaGuardia and the old real estates to keep the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line running without tairing it down. I gearente you the R62AS R62S would of definitely replacing the R12S R14s on the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line right now. Including the Redbirds I'm telling you.
This is an interesting video I'm surprised they have that old footage stored away as if they knew the events within the video were going to happen and they recorded it for reference.
na, it means "elevated" as in the train was elevated, unlike a "subway", which is underground.
As kids we would sneak in 3 of us on the unmanned uptown side of 180th Street. I was at the subway museum a couple of weeks ago and they had an unmanned token operated turnstyle and I could hardly fit myself let alone two friends! Hey that saved us 30 cents for a couple of slices of pizza (fare was 15 cents) My dad used to take me to the remnants of the Bronx Park terminal-thanks for the memory
You deserve more subs,I thought you’re capable of reaching 5k subs.
Holy Crist! I had known Roger Arcara! through a mutual late friend George E Horn, I had obtained special permission to alight a train at City hall Loop escorted by Roger. There is a gorgeous stain glass rose window in the ceiling to that former entryway to NYC city offices! A rare privilege indeed!
Did this go down gun hill rd?
You mentioned TROLLEY service on another video post/reply, ever been to Philly & ride the lines out to West Philly? Or the Heritage Line on Gerard Ave, using real 1940-50's PCC's? Love it
We lived Right in front of the 3rd ave Near Crotona Ave. when I left to school in Mass. I couldn’t sleep. Because it was too quiet. Got used to the train passing by.
Being this el was just a bridge shuttle in poor condition it was torn down but with no plan to replace it. In Boston the Washington st El ( Orange line) was in bad shape but they built the replacement corridor before they took down the el. nyc does things ass backwards
Wholeheartedly Agree… NYC really does think backwards…
The 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line definitely needs to be brought back to life instead of having the south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx suffering without the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line. All of this pricing that they wanna raise up. Thing about pricing and bringing back the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line where it was.
My Dad Remembers when they Torn down the Third Ave EL in 1973 .
Friday, April 29, 2023, will mark the 50th Anniversary of the end of service for the 3rd Avenue EL
This year 2024 Anerversy for the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line been torning down sense 1973 1974.
Good day, this is SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT of SUBWAY.. I would like to see as much footage regarding IRT in the BRONX .. we now only have one letter line assigned the D ( IND ) for my OFFICIALS to use and gain knowledge of how to utilize the ghost tracks
Once you go to Frordam plaza on the Harlem and Connecticut metro North railroad station. You will definitely see the remaining of the Thrid Avenue Elevated wall station structures and the Thrid Avenue Elevated entrance.
Judging by the swelling volume of select bus service, providing crosstown service.... (I dont know). Look at the service on the BK - QB G line, and Frank Ave shuttle, etc.. A line serving the northern end (BX - Manh) area of the city may do some wonders.. One can hope
Of all elevated trains I rode,,this one was the scariest,,stations rattled and sway viciously,,lo I lived two blocks from Fordham Univ and White Castle (188 st Bathgate Ave)
I am interested in polo grounds area off the 4 line if I am not mistakeing of course
I do agree with you about the greed part It ties into the economics of the city. Either way, the subway system is a permanent part of the city's infrastructure. The city was essentially built around the subway. It can't just be rebuilt, it would be prohibitive expensive, therefore it must me maintained. I'm sure you do remember the state of the subway system in the late 70's to early 80's right? The direct product of neglect.
That's actually an interesting thought to merge Subway/Elevated construction from two different eras. I could envision it but its not really feasible.
I don't think that the standard Lo-V trailer cars needed any modification in order to run with the Steinway motor cars since they had compatible AMUE braking systems and they had no motors. The Flushing line never operated trailers due to the steep grades of the Steinway tunnels.
I agree with you...
But I think you misread my comment. I said the El's were demolished in the order following the building of the original subway starting with the 2nd Ave El. They were knocked down in a logical order. The original route of the subway started at City Hall, up the east side across 42st to Broadway and up to 145st. So it made sense to knock down the 2nd Ave El first then the 6th and 9th Ave El and finally the 3rd ave El. Interboro didn't need to compete with itself.
From what I see here, this was a very important line for the bronx.
What do you definitely see for south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx Westchester?
Yep..Lower Manhattan was the "City" and Upper Manhattan and the other boroughs were the "Suburbs". Mostly farmland and empty space. As far as my comment, yeah I said subway because I was responding to a comment about why our 100+ year old subway couldn't just simply be rebuilt. Its like having your veins & arteries replaced...Its not possible because it is an integral part of the body.
Lets just say the city was built around our early rapid transit system...;)
Really need another train line on the east side of central park. 4,5, and 6 trains are packed and are the 3 main trains in the bronx that are used other than 2 or D trains. 2,4,5,6 need another train to the bronx as even at midnight trains can be packed going uptown.
They could use the 8 /10 trains to 3 Rd Avenue elevated lines between Gun Hill road and 138 Street and 3rd Avenue connections to the Pelham 6 line to helping out the bus operators and leaving their cars home to. That's the reason why they have a bunch of police officer s I'm 100% sure that every body misses the old 8 3rd Avenue elevated line s. All they had to do is to check the trestle tracks and stations . At that time they did not painted the trestles like they do now.
Put the 8/10 trains together with the 3rd Avenue elevated line so it would help out the 2/5/4/6 trains.
Wow, very cool!
Go for it, you'll enjoy yourself. I visit the city all the time, on day trips.. You can take a Bolt, Mega, or Chinatown bus from NYC for just 10-15 dollars, and arrive right in Phillys Center City.. from there you can take the Broad Street Subway, as well as the Market-Fran subway to the trolley lines and enjoy yourself. Get some GOOD Philly food too, excellent day trip..
Thank U 4 this Video.
I wish they rebuilt all els in New York, but with base-isolated track, pillars relocated to outside of the curbside, and wheels with variable taper in order to prevent flage contact altogether just like with upgraded trains and bullet trains in Asia and Europe. That would enable New York to return the iconic aesthetics of its historic els while still ensuring a whisper quiet experience and giving a unique world-class sightseeing experience just like with Chicago's Loop. Unlike the CTA L however, my proposal would have a Business Class car in every trainset (just like with commuter rail in Asia, especially Green Cars in Japan) that travels on elevated lines in order to ensure that sightseers get a great experience from having a comfortable ride with a luxurious interior free from homeless. The Business Class fares for tourists and upper class commuters would also cost many (perhaps a dozen) times more than a standard fare in order to subsidize the low-income commuters in order to ensure the financial security of the railway operator so that future generations can continue to enjoy the elevated signseeing experience on infrastructure maintained to certified pre-owned like-new condition. I bet that such a modern el (but with historic aesthetics) built to my high standards would still be way cheaper than tunnelling the Second Avenue Subway through ultra-hard metamorphic schist rock hundreds of feet underground.
After all, even the economically much-worse-off Philly was able to completely rebuild the Market Street western elevated portion of the Market-Frankford Line (including the foundations of the pillars) in the 2000s to a modern concrete structure, though I'm not sure whether floating slab track was used or not. Not having variable wheel taper is not a problem on the Market-Frankfort Elevated because there are no sharp curves. Perhaps Chicago's el's weren't demolished because the original builders went the extra mile to lengthen the transverse girders in order to be able to place the pillars on the sidewalk or place the els over alleys alltogether, both in order to not block horse and automotive traffic? That is unlike New York, where the pillars were placed in the middle of the street on most elevated lines presumable to save money on having shorter transverse girders.
Chances in the Boggie down south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx brand new Thrid Avenue Elevated line only in south Bronx. Never rebuild another elevated line in Manhattan again. There are definitely studying on that.
i lived at 205th st and grand concourse and than 201st and valenetine ave. i rode on da 3rd ave el from 1971 to da day they closed it in 73.
Charlie Muller Jr.
I wonder who they pissed off to have the line removed.
They was pissed off at present Robert mosses and the president LaGuardia manager that could not stand for no extra elevated lines to be up running.
So the part that was left in the Bronx didn't make much sense, It didn't have its own route or direct connection to the subway. An indirect transfer to the 2/5 at 149th street which required you to leave the El and walk downstairs into the subway and at Gunhill Rd. it just merged back into the 2/5 line again. Just replace it with a bus which is what happened with the BX55. It ran to Fordham Rd, Gunhill Road and across 161st to the 4 train at River Ave.
Less Nostalgic...More Logic... :)
EL means elevated
really good stuff
I think the R series cars were too heavy to run more than 4 cars on that old El
Not only were the consists limited to 4 cars but the dynamic brakes were disconnected and the controllers rewired to eliminate the parallel (fastest) notch. The Lo-V cars which preceded them did not have dynamic brakes and were somewhat lighter so they were a better fit for the old elevated structure. However by the time they were replaced they were 50+ years old and well past their designed life expectancy.
Mais história desse lugar muito bom
I am so sad this was done really 🥲so many memories
oh I see and yes the city was built around our early rapid transit system ^_^
Nah maybe one day when I'm back out in PA. The closest I've been to riding a trolley is when I lived in Jersey City. The Hudson-Bergen Light Rail.
The 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated should of been left alone and never had taken down. All they had to do is to shut down the 3rd Ave Elevated line down instead of talking it down and do a complete over hual inspections on the Track frames trestles and beams until they decide to run the Thrid Avenue Elevated line back. Look at the ninth Ave Elevated line at Jerome Ave Elevated line under neath the 4 train they have the whole entire trestle and not even a half of track frames. At Gun Hill Road they have half of the track frames trestle.
@Lee Cornwell The N/W is getting R211's & R160's
The Q is getting all R211's
The B is getting R160s/R211's
The D is keeping it's R68s until it retires
I have a question when is sixth Avenue getting CBTCS?. You know that the A C lines is getting CBTCS first. How is the B trains is getting R160s R211As if the B N W Q Trains is not getting CBTCS for a good while.
The B is definitely keeping the R68/As because they are not getting no CBTCS until the R268/As comes to replace all the R68S R68AS on the B D N Q W lines. The B is definitely gonna have mix equipments R160s R68AS. The R211As R211Ts are definitely replacing all the R46S on the A C lines for CBTCS first and the G also getting CBTCS and the F lines between church Ave and Coney island. You definitely know that Staten island Rail way it definitely getting the R211S . to replace all R44S.
@@leecornwell5632 put all R188's on the third avenue elevated
It will definitely be the R262As close ways or the R342As will definitely replacing all the R12 R14s that used to run on the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated line.
What do you mean by "El", the letter L?
Yes I know the L trains that runs in Brooklyn. The Thrid Avenue Elevated line was call the iRT 8 trains between Gun hill road Clearmount Webster Ave Bronx and south Ferry. In 1958 they have cut off the elevated line between south Ferry and 149 street Thrid Avenue Elevated line.
Yes, from the Bronx.
If the 3rd Avenue El still existed then I would board a Bronx bound Dyre Avenue El to take from Kingsbridge Road to Gun Hill Road, once at Gun Hill Road I would transfer to the 3rd Avenue El on the lower level of the Gun Hill Road station, I would take the 3rd Avenue to 149th Street we would cross over Mosholu Parkway on the viaduct, once getting to the 149th Street station I would transfer to the Jerome Avenue El from 149th Street-Grand Concourse to Woodlawn, and if there was a 42nd Street, 125th Street, 124th Street, 138th Street, 149th Street, Mosholu Parkway, Jerome Avenue, 233rd Street, Van Cortland Park East, and Katonah Avenue shuttle aka the 12 train from the elevated Woodlawn station on the Jerome Avenue El to the Jerome Avenue extended underground station at Woodlawn-Bainbridge/Jerome Avenues, then I would go from the Woodlawn-Bainbridge/Jerome Avenues station below the Woodlawn elevated station to the Woodlawn Heights-Martha/McLean Avenues station at the Bronx-Westchester County line and the Woodlawn Yonkers section line, here’s how it would go from The Bronx/Yonkers to Manhattan:
Woodlawn Heights-Martha/McLean Avenues
Katonah Avenue-Patty’s Field
Katonah Avenue-East 237th Street
Van Cortland Park East-Katonah Avenue
Van Cortland Park East
233rd Street
Jerome Avenue-East 233rd Street
Jerome Avenue
Woodlawn-Bainbridge/Jerome Avenues
Mosholu Parkway
East Mosholu Parkway North
Mosholu Parkway-Van Cortland Avenue East
Mosholu Parkway-Golden Avenue
Grand Concourse
149th Street
East 149th Street
West 149th Street
3rd Avenue-149th Street
149th Street-Grand Concourse
138th Street
East 138th Street
West 138th Street
3rd Avenue-138th Street
138th Street-Grand Concourse
124th Street
East 124th Street
West 124th Street
3rd Avenue-124th Street
Harlem-124th Street
125th Street
East 125th Street
West 125th Street
3rd Avenue-125th Street
Harlem-125th Street
42nd Street-Port Authority Bus Terminal
42nd Street-Bryant Park
Times Square-42nd Street
5th Avenue-42nd Street
Grand Central-42nd Street
And from Manhattan to The Bronx/Yonkers:
Grand Central-42nd Street
5th Avenue-42nd Street
Times Square-42nd Street
42nd Street-Bryant Park
42nd Street-Port Authority Bus Terminal
Harlem-125th Street
3rd Avenue-125th Street
West 125th Street
East 125th Street
125th Street
Harlem-124th Street
3rd Avenue-124th Street
West 124th Street
East 124th Street
124th Street
138th Street-Grand Concourse
3rd Avenue-138th Street
West 138th Street
East 138th Street
138th Street
149th Street-Grand Concourse
3rd Avenue-149th Street
West 149th Street
East 149th Street
149th Street
Grand Concourse
Mosholu Parkway-Golden Avenue
Mosholu Parkway-Van Cortlandt Avenue East
East Mosholu Parkway North
Mosholu Parkway
Woodlawn-Bainbridge/Jerome Avenues
Jerome Avenue
Jerome Avenue-East 233rd Street
233rd Street
Van Cortlandt Park East
Van Cortland Park East-Katonah Avenue
Katonah Avenue-East 237th Street
Katonah Avenue-Patty’s Field
Woodlawn Heights-Martha/McLean Avenues
oh yes!the third ave el train was the number 8 train.
They should never taken down the 3rd avenue 8 train line what was the sence they building the second Avenue line if they not going to put no 3rd Avenue elevated line?
That 3rd Avenue elevated line is coming back I'm telling you. They was talking about expanded more subways lines. It's gonna take more more years to do that
Ok you may be right to a certain extent. Then I can say that NYC is still stuck because we still depend on a 100+ year old subway system and on the highways that were built over 50 years ago. Why don't we tear those down? If those are still standing then the Third Avenue El should have that right too. It's those at the top who enjoy tearing things up to make money, as if the existing structures already don't make enough. there is something called greed, and greed does not = progress.
WATCH THE LAST LIVING EL IN NYC.....S& G SONG BEAUTIFUL VIDEO
Sure could use these EL's today. Notice, when they show the streets, how much traffic there was back then. If they had known how congested city streets would become, I think they would have kept the elevated subway lines.
Don't forget the R262/As and the R342As will definitely be out real soon
You said The city was essentially built around the subway' there was a city before the subway were built LOL, before the EL upper manhattan was pretty much Rural undeveloped land, when the EL'S came it's turn into city neighborhoods
Great Story But Damn Why They Torn Down 3rd Ave Subway Line? Now These Day U Do Need It For Sure! I Live In The Bronx Near By 3rd Ave 55 Bus Now Just The 15 Bus Run There Alot Of Time It Would Be Pack At Time! We Do Need That Line Again!
It's called GENERAL MOTORS! This is carryover from their infamous NCL scandal to de-electrify America's public transport system. Please take note all those GM 'Fishbowls" (MABSTOA) taking 3rd Ave's place! This is why 3rd Ave came down! If only it could have been registered as National Treasure (historical landmark) It would have been still be around today!
This is why I personally boycott GM (this despite their Volt, Bolt and Spark cars) I would not even invest in a COTTER PIN from them (it might fall apart)!
GM = Genital Monopoly -- the Mark of Excrement!
One stops to wonder about the investments in mass transportation. By now, NYC should have super monorails going up the east and west side of Manhattan into the other boroughs. How did they build all those elevated lines or even the subways? Instead, they can barely get a 2 mile subway line completed that started in 2007, and was supposed to be done by the 1940s originally. I could see dismantling 3rd Ave el, but refurbish 2nd Av would've been way cheaper than this subway fiasco. Clearly the els were ragged and ugly by 1955, way past prime. We see originally businesses invested in late 1800s, got investor money to sock in, but found out quickly wasn't cost effective to maintain and run a railroad. The government stepped in to help because clearly the economy of NYC is dependent on the subway. Seems since WW2 the price of beating Hitler was to feed the military monster born to fend him off. Notice defense spending has increased almost exponentially to transportation projects (highway and mass transit) since 1945. And we see the result nationwide. Let's tell the next President, Governor and Mayors, it's time for someone to step up and fund these things again...while tracking waste. Waste and abuse of union rules for OT that isn't really worked, things of that nature, have to stop, too. It isn't just how much money we throw at it.
The terminology, "West Farms Line" continues to confuse.
Relly, you must be from the area...
Manda mais a história
Esse é o jardim hoje em nova York
I bet if the 3rd ave el was here today I would be one of most used line's in the bronx..
They are working on that now . I say that because you have to remember new York city is a bissy city in the Bronx. The bus operators are doing the best they could. Don't blame the MTA bus operators blame the old president they had a long time ago. He is no longer here anymore . However they will definitely bring it back to life and stronger and better it will take time. Never say never so could this. Why do you think that they are building the second Avenue subway line back think about it.
The 3rd avenue Elevated is coming back I'm telling you.
The officials made a bad call to Eli this train line
Once the city started the planning of the subway in the late 1890's the death of the original Elevated Lines was inevitable. They were noisy, decrepit, costly to maintain, and they made the streets below look like caves. I'm a fan of NYC's Rapid Transit system, I believe its an engineering marvel and to think, it only took them 4 years to construct the entire first section of the subway from City Hall to 145st & Broadway...
The Subway killed the old "Els" just like the bus killed the trolley.
Read the section on the Els in Otto Bettmann's "The Good Old Days-They Were Terrible"
Crosstown El's didn't make any sense. There were a few cross town spurs on various lines that didn't see much service. They were abandoned pretty much right after they were opened. The trolleys were more effective at serving crosstown routes. Shit..at one point there were horse drawn carriages still on the streets with the pedestrians, trolleys, cars and the El's running overhead. All in Manhattan...What a mess that had to be.
There's definitely a way to rebuild and restore the 8 Thrid Avenue Elevated back without making to much noises anymore and Quieter. That's the reason why they have the new engineers to trainned them how to rebuild the extra elevated subway lines back and even stronger like ever 💪 before.
Who syas you can't go back. If we are aiming now in cutting on automobile traffic, then why not "rebuild" the Third Avenue El? This is a great way to invest in infrastructure and promote more use of mass transit. Dig it?!
Mater of fact they are definitely gonna rebuilding the Thrid and ninth Ave Elevated line back I tell you that right now when they build the Brand New R262/As with open gateways and the End ways to replace all the R12 R14s on the Thrid Avenue Elevated line. However they are definitely starting to developing again with Affordable houses and other businesses between Gun hill road Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx. It's not beat down anymore. Another thing it's definitely gonna happen is this . The Q T trains will definitely run across west side 125 street and then 137 street to connect to the 1 Broadway line. I have seeing it on the map where they have the curve for East 125 street to Lexington Avenue connecting to the 4 5 6 and the metro North railroad. They are definitely making enough room for the 8 or the 10 trains to run on the Thrid Avenue Elevated line in Manhattan under ground and above ground in the South Bronx.
My Question is this how could the subway run on the same exact tracks were the Harlem metro North railroad runs through woodland and Wakefield or Gun hill road?
Matter of fact. Thrid Avenue Elevated has a chance in the south Bronx Tremont Webster Boston road Bronx. Never rebuild another elevated line in the again.
I disagree...
We do effect change to a degree but It is not a cliche. Change is a constant just like the speed of light. Its called progression. Does not the Earth still rotate while you are asleep? One of the most endearing traits bestowed upon us by our creator is adaptation. We can live on beach in St. Thomas or in a log cabin in Alaska. How many species can adapt to an ever changing environment as well as we do?
There's a difference between being nostalgic and being stuck in the past.
Second Avenue Subway..
Yea