Hyundai, catastrophic engine failures, and the role of servicing | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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Hello John, I am an owner of a 2021 shit box Hilux with the 2.8 diesel turbo, my question to you is can I change oil at 6 month intervals without farking up dpf performance ?
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Mr Cadogan, in my time working as a design engineer in the automotive industry (almost exclusively electronics), some of the mechanical design engineers brought to my attention some issues with short trips regarding several factors that I'm guessing you know but did not mention. 1 the engines are designed to run with clearances set to their running temperature or as close as can be done without the engine ceasing on a cold day. This of course means something stupid like 75-80% of the wear and tear occurs when the engine is getting up to temperature on runs between 2km and 30km. The other one some people do not seem to understand is that water is a combustion product. Therefore it will get into the oil. At running temperature for most cars this is got rid of (through the breather tubes) on a fairly regular basis as long as the engine is running for half an hour or more a couple of times per week. If it's all short journeys then the oil gets contaminated surprisingly quickly. So your 6 months for n oil change advice was spot on.
@@gordonlawrence1448 Can you ask your mechanical design engineers why they don't / won't design an engine that has helical drive gears instead of a timing chain, is it because of cost to design or is it better to stay the way it is now and just wait until the chain and guides wear out............after all better for the bottom line, selling spares and charging like wounded bulls for the repair..........................I think maybe the latter
Hi John. I’m a mechanic at a Hyundai dealership. But have worked at a number of other dealerships as well. I unfortunately see this all the time. People just don’t want to get their cars serviced on time. As well as oil degradation the level can drop over time. And if there isn’t enough oil in the sump for the pickup to lubricate the top end. Valves, cams etc. Then the engine will form sludge in the top end and eventually engine failure is the result. I had a six year old I30 in for its 4th service. Two services behind schedule. And another car was two years overdue for it’s service. People just don’t care until they find out an engine is anywhere from $10000 to $20000 and higher. Keep up the good work John.
Yes I once had an old Holden and my father who was an engineer suggested I check the oil and water level every morning on my touring holidays. This I did for every car I owned since then, I carry the right oil and top it up if necessary, I also carried some distilled water if the coolant level drops. I only used tap water on the iron Holden 186.
Shouldn’t folks be checking their oil levels between services too? Doesn’t that help if they top it off to required levels? Cheers.
I have had 2 cars now that had 15,000km service intervals, which to me seems too long. While those cars were under warranty I got them serviced at the dealer on time according to the scheduled interval (time or distance) however once out of warranty I would perform my own oil and filter change at 7,500 then take it to a mechanic for the scheduled 15,000/12mth log book service. Reason I didn't do it while under warranty is out of concern that the warranty could be void from me, who is not a qualified mechanic, performing an additional oil and filter change. From a dealership mechanic perspective is that concern valid?
@@lukeclemo3659 yeah mate. They should. But people don’t even bother filling the washer bottle or put air in their tyres. I’m pretty sure most people wouldn’t know where the oil cap is.
@@mootazz while the vehicle is in warranty any documented work must be done by a qualified mechanic. But there is no problem doing more frequent oil changes. Better safe than sorry.
I am a retired mechanic and my observation of things mechanical, especially motor vehicles, goes back to the late 1960s. Back then services were frequent for many reasons and not just the lower standards of lubricants. Many vehicles still had to have certain joints greased to lessen wear as metals were not as advanced and clutches and brakes did not last as long as they do now either but over the course of the 1970s and into the 1980s I did notice a marked improvement in all these areas. One area did buck the trend though and that was in the drive of the overhead camshaft. Most of the product I worked on was Japanese and the ones that used duplex timing chains and robust sprockets and guides generally had no issues even when servicing was less than optimal but then the bean counters got involved and some manufacturers went from duplex to single row and bang, instant problems due to stretching. But then the rubber timing belt became the norm and I have to say that if they were maintained as per schedule they performed quite well but if they were not then it was a one-way trip to piston destruction unless you were lucky enough to have a non-interference valve train design. Belt drive was cheaper for the manufacturer and on the whole, it reduced engine weight but once twin cams became the norm belt loading went up quite a bit, and in the case of the V6 layout it was doubly bad. So some manufacturers went back to chains but because the component weight was far more important now and the bean counters were even more prevalent the chains were single row and even though they were made of better stuff they still stretched and the less robust sprockets wore more quickly and the grides did as well. So when you added overdue servicing to the equation we are back to a part that should be reliable enough for the life of the engine failing dismally. You often hear the term "that xxxxx was over-engineered and it lasts forever" and in many older vehicles there was some truth in that but in the modern vehicle that is no longer the case because "over-engineering" adds weight and cost. This all goes to making your oil changes so much more important in modern vehicles because more components operate closer to their stress-loading limits.
I'm one of the few people who prefers a timing belt over a chain because I like to keep my cars in the best condition possible at all times. On my 05 Civic with the belt driven D17, I can get a new OEM timing belt, water pump, and tensioner for about $250, change it in a couple hours, and forget about it for another 7 years. But on my K24 swapped 04 Civic, an OEM timing set with both chains, tensioners, sprockets, guides, etc is over $1000 just in parts and would be significantly more difficult and time consuming to replace than a belt. It's also much harder to decide when it's time to change it due to the significantly higher cost and amount of work required and "when it fails" definitely isn't the answer, especially on an interference engine. But as bad as people are about maintenance, I understand why timing belts went away.
As my engine has a timing chain, to replace the head gasket I have to strip the entire engine apart. That involved too many parts that had to be replaced, rendering the car uneconomic to repair. So now the entire car is scrap. Such a bad design, if it had a cambelt, I could have done the gasket for a small cost.
@@MattBrownbill Good point, that's the other reason I prefer belts over chains. I think chains are generally better for the average soccer mom/dad who doesn't know they have to change the belt every 7 years or whatever since they typically last longer than a belt when both are ignored, but chains certainly have their downsides too and it's not like they never have problems because they do. The way I see it, which is "better" depends on whether you want something you know you can plan on replacing every once in a while but is highly repairable for cheap and very reliable if maintained (a belt) or whether you prefer to have something that's expected to last longer, but roll the dice and either likely end up destroying the engine if/when it fails or spend a fortune and go through a lot of work changing the entire timing set before it fails whenever you see fit (chain).
@@averyalexander2303 unfortunately a cam-belt change is a big enough bill to impact on the value of the car. I know people who have sold cars cheap, rather than stump up the money. Car designers seemed to have been told to package everything as cheaply as possible, at the expense of ease of maintenance. Making so many jobs, that used to be trivial, uneconomical.
@@averyalexander2303 I drive a 2006 Toyota Corolla (200'000 kilometres on the odometer) and our other car is a 2010 Toyota Yaris (170'000 kilometres on the odometer). Those two engines are with the timing chain. I religiously maintain both cars. New oil and oil filter every 5'000 kilometres maximum or every three months, whichever comes first. It would be probably very expensive if I wouldn't do it myself. I'm not expecting timing chain failure any time soon and I don't even know anybody who had timing chain failure on Toyota or Lexus vehicles although I personally know many people who own one of those vehicles. The timing chain is lubricated with engine oil so it is important to do proper maintenance. Of course, plastic timing chain guides or even tensioners could fail but I believe that my engines are non-interference engines. One day I'm going to replace those parts before they even fail.
John as an independent mechanic I advise my customers to service their cars every 6 months of 10,000ks. Even if you don’t drive very far. Rubber parts breakdown & wear out with age. I do not agree with pushing intervals out to 12 months or 20,000ks as some manufacturers do. Anyone who complains about servicing intervals I always tell them services are cheap engines & transmissions are not. All modern cars post 1980 or so are very highly tuned & need regular maintenance. Keeping your oil clean & also your air filter will help in the long run. Dirty oil & air filters cause many many problems.
Totally agreed mate. Minimum standard of maintenance is: What the manufacturer requires...
No harm in doing it, just going to cost you more money.
Considering cars are going hundreds of thousands kilometres doing the service intervals without problems.
Most problems come from electronic parts and plastic failing, no amount of oil is going to change that.
💯 %Oil and filter every 5000k. Oil and filter changes are cheaper than an engine replacement. 👍😎🇦🇺🍻
@@AutoExpertJC especially given they have requirements for extra servicing under lots of conditions, yes follow the manufacturer fine print.
@@AutoExpertJC Go beyond what they require, if your transmission is "sealed for life" change its oil, it'll prolong the life of the tranny.
I'm making this comment from probably the first 30 or 40 seconds in. Here's why you should get your car serviced often. Because it extends the life of your vehicle.
If your vehicle and or tool or whatever you use is very well maintained and of a high build quality, even if it is rarely used, it will last a very long time.
My wife (and I've made this same comment probably 4 million times now) has a 2013 diesel Santa Fe. We have it serviced 6 months /7500km or whichever comes first (always time). My wife drives 6km to, and 6km from work, every day.
The handbook for this vehicle mentions frequent short trips as condition A (or B or C or D or something, and the extra requirements for this is halving the advertised service interval. It's in the book.
It's in the bloody book.
Exactly! We have a 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe V6 . It was my wife's dad's car and has 245,000 km. We only do maybe 6,000 a year of that. I change the oil every 6 months. My old Falcon the same. 20yo. No oil or coolant losss👍
Gotta say, my 2007 200KM bomb of an Aurion got a warranty job last month from Toyota after it started pumping lines of oil onto the road.
Got to love it when it has a recall on the problem (oil cooler pipe in this case).
Was pretty chuffed for a 15 yo car.
That's something that doesn't happen much for a car that age.
Is there a recall active for this problem? It is a serious known issue by Toyota, however I can't see a recall for it unless I'm looking in the wrong places. cheers
My i30 is a 15000km service interval car. I do high kilometres. Pro-tip for high kilometre drivers: when the 15k car hits 10k - book the service. It’s amazing how quickly that last 5000km can tick over. Don’t wait till 14k, you’ll always go over the limit with time and the mechanic or dealer may not have the slot available.
I like Hyundais and generally think they are good cars. It is well known though that the GD 1.8 and 2.0 engines were known for a design floor that produced piston slap due to bore and piston wear. There are lots of videos online of them being stripped down and I had one myself. It was Sold to us by a Hyundai dealer at 120,000kms. They quite likely knew about it because they warmed it up before they let us test drive it. By 150,000kms it had changed from a tappet type noise to sounding like the engine was full of 10c pieces and even had a slight knock. We were contacted by lawyers asking if we had had these symptoms, so obviously this is not an isolated incident.
As for me... I'm nearly 62 and paying $40,000 for a new Kia, a freaking lot of money on a single wage.
I will bow down to the Kia god and have my car serviced religiously.
It ain't a $500 mower used and abused and expected to sing and dance on a Sunday.
Will be doing what Scotty K and the Car Wizard preach and probably halve the oil change times as well, receipts kept of course.
Cars like a marriage, a commitment a contract and a cancer if not maintained.
Intermediate change is a great idea - especially if you don't drive much.
My $500 mower cost $1000 about 15 years ago. It's probably done half the hours that my cars have in that time and, I'm not joking. I change the oil annually and clean/replace the filter when I think about it. The carby has been off once for a thorough de gunking and the thing runs like new.
Lawnmowers are like marriage. You don't want to get caught cutting your neighbour'
s grass.
Interestingly enough, I owned a Honda Accord (1985 or so) which I bought from new and, for a number of reasons, probably only had the oil changed at 20,000Km intervals for much of its 300,000Km lifetime. One interval would have been closer to 40,000Km. However, I did use good quality synthetic oil. When it was retired (after the wife rolled it into a paddock just down the road) I stripped the engine and was gobsmacked that there was so little wear inside.
All I can draw from this is that if you have *really* good engineering and metalurgy combined with the best quality oils then you have a *lot* more lattitude when it comes to oil changes than when you use cheaper oil (as many dealers/garages do) and engines that are built "to a price".
I've never had a major (engine) mechanical failure with Honda or Toyota despite them being ridden hard and put away wet on far too many occasions.
Petrol engines vs diesel with dpf make's a difference to oil qaulity too.
Synthetic oil never breaks down, you could change it at 100,000klm and it's still good.
The problem is it gets dirty, that's the only reason for changing it
@@zagan1 oil additive packs degrade and are depleted, viscosity enhancers ( engineered tiny pieces of temperature reactive polymers) also degrade/ shear. So yes the oil does not wear out, but the protective properties alter markedly over time
What viscosity oil did you use in the accord?
@@daveroski From memory it was Mobil 1 15W50. This was a pre-VTEC engine so a higher viscosity oil didn't affect things and a lot of the Kms were commute journeys of about 80Km (50 miles) so the engine was running at optimal temperature for most of its life.
Always get my 2018 Kia Carnival serviced every 7500km, does average km a year, but was recommended by a trusted mechanic as it extends the longevity of the engine over the life of the car, have done it to my 09 Hyundai Imax even though I service it myself these days and is pushing 240k km with no engine issues yet.
I just had a customer with a knock in their Hyundai Sonata. I asked our local Hyundai dealer to have a look and the first thing they asked for was the service history. Fortunately the customer has an immaculate service history.
The result is 100% coverage of a new engine despite being out of warranty on time.
Well done Hyundai.
Yup, my 2011 accent tranny pooped out at 115,000 km. The dealer service guy was genuinely gobsmacked. The car was serviced on time, complete docs in the bag. Hyundai put a reman in, no argument, which I now have 105,000 km on, fingers crossed. My next car will be a Hyundai. If I live that long.
Mine is due to be replaced and they will only supply the block - I gotta pay $5500 labor...plus a new $4000 CAT - Hyundai will look for reasons to deny claims (such as less than immaculate service history), even though they are WELL AWARE this is their fault - so IMO not well done Hyundai.
NEVER buying another Hyundai
They just told me they won't cover the engine for me. I have the same issue on my car and now it's junk. So so pissed off right now. They told me it would be $6,500 for a new engine. Fuck Hyundai.
@@user-jx8zw3yr1isame here. I basically got sold a car with a fked up engine. They told me it would be 6500 out of pocket for a new engine. Never EVER giving Hyundai my money ever again. What a joke of a company. Now I don't have a car.
I would ask for an itemised document of the parts they put into the vehicle; we had a warranty motor replacement done, but we've discovered that most of it was second hand parts from a wrecked car and it now runs like dogshit with all sorts of buzzing and vibration that it never used to have.
We're about to take Hyundai to the ombudsman as they've been unbelievably difficult and belligerent towards us.
My brother has a ford ranger and would get it serviced when he felt like it. One new engine later he services it religiously.
You are a fair man John, I have been a service manager, in a non-aligned industry. In many instances (more often than not) I would bend over backwards to give my customers the benefit of the doubt. However, on occasion people would try and pull one over on me and I felt annoyed. Some folks just do not have an inner sense of responsibility, and when that occurs, I must remind them.
In 1979 my friend had a timing chain break on his 3rd series Land Rover on the gravel road between Bourke and Cobar. I waited with the vehicle whist the driver hitched to Bourke and got a tow truck.
I am grateful to the gentleman who stopped and gave me half a cold bottle of coke whilst I waited.
We stayed 3 days or so waiting for it to be fixed, we were lucky all it needed was just the timing chain to be replaced.
I has a passbook with the Vic States Savings Bank and I wanted to withdraw more than the max limit and the bank in Bourke had to call my home branch in Melbourne and charged me something like $5 for the phone call.
Enjoy watching Curtis, that guy does stuff bordering on magic. And Fireball tools is a site that at times has me stunned. On the issue of service and the time/distance question. I do not think that the manufacturers are explaining the need adequately. I run on a time for service rather than a distance as my garage ornament (2002 MGTF 160) really doesn't get a lot of time on the road. I worked in TAFE and some of the maths support I had to do was with automotive. The instructors there went to great lengths to explain the degradation of oils, timing, stretch factors, brake binding and tyre flat spot problems. They talked about the nasties that sat in oils and festered away at metal surfaces because the components were not moving. They had camshaft lobes with less than 20k with holes in the hard surface. Water pumps jammed with muck that looked like red mud. Out of round wheel bearings because the car just sat and compressed the bearing. The best was from a car never driven in the rain with the wiper blades welded to the glass. I am 77 years old and remember the thousand mile service, the gearbox and diff oil change at 3,000 and 5,000 miles. S= k log W.
Thank you for the great videos. I appreciate the fact that you approach things from an unbiased position. My family has purchased four Hyundai or Kia vehicles over the past fifteen or twenty years and the worst thing we had go wrong was a bad alternator in a 2010 Rio (replaced under warranty). We always get the services done as required. I have heard so many horror stories, but more times than not, the services were either completely ignored or not done on time. While serving in the U.S. Air Force many years ago, I did all the oil changes myself. If you can't afford to get the required services, at least change your oil and make sure you inspect the belts. Again, thank you for your great content.
Great video John. I have a mate who has just learnt the hard way how costly it is not to get a car serviced. He’s owned a VW Amarok for a few years and we travel to Dingo Piss Creek a couple of times a year. In August the Amarok had a catastrophic failure going over a cattle grid. It blew a hole through the engine. It cost a fortune to get towed back to the metro area. VW inspected the car and said it would not be covered under warranty as it was over it’s required service by 1000km and the service schedule hadn’t been followed. The insurance company said they wouldn’t cover the cost to repair the vehicle as the service schedule wasn’t maintained. Now he’s left paying off a car that doesn’t work and he’s taking out a $40K loan for a new engine and gear box. Lesson learnt… get your car serviced if you want any form of support from the manufacturer or your insurance company.
Holy shit, an Amarok. Of all the vehicles to 'risk it' and not service? Geesh.
I have a kia of the same age and same ks. I would say old mate's timing chain did really well to survive so long with service intervals up to and over 20 thousand ks... i get mine done every 10k and it's still ticking along like new.
I'm a low mileage driver. However, I get my 2005 Lancer serviced every six months regardless. It's done well over 200,000 kays, well past the service maintenance intervals in the driver's handbook. Still has the original engine and auto trans. The timing belt got changed at 100,000 and 200,000 kays. Prevention is better than the cure!
Lancers are a awesome car, rarely you will see one on a tow truck
Our motor mechanics teacher at highschool in 90's, an ex race mechanic, always preached to us teens 'change your oil at half interval and you'l never have an issue, its cheap insurance'. Done this with all my cars both motor and trans, and never had any issues even with heavy footed driving and regular trips to the drag stip for fun. Seriously, look out for oil on special, reguarly goes on half price, $10 filter, twice a year, its not that costly - hold onto receipts and helps resale big time.
About servicing your car it needs to be done by the book or early-ish depending on your tipe of driving. My neighbor has a ford van in UK. 4 years old and a bit over 100k miles and out of warranty. Timing belt or chain broke so catastrophic failure. The service schedule for timing belt or chain was 150k miles or 10 years. He went back to the ford garage where he was servicing the van by the manufacturer schedule. No question asked, the dealership changed the engine with a brand new engine.
My Forester XT has 7.5k mile intervals, but I've always serviced it every 5k. Oil and filters are cheap and if you look at what is considered "extreme driving conditions" it covers almost every car. I think some of the long intervals has to do with marketing. Longer intervals means a lower cost to own.... on paper.
Longer intervals mean a shorter ultimate engine life.
I service my 3.6 outback every 5k with Mobil1. Barely burns any oil for a Sink at 50k.
Same with "lifetime" components - BMW USA years ago changed their model to cover servicing, and all of a sudden, 30,000 + was a service interval. Funny how once a manufacturer says "we'll do this for you" everything becomes a "longer lasting" component... until it breaks.
Correct! Long drain service intervals 15 000km + give owners that warm, fuzzy feeling that "this car is cheap to keep until...engine fails. Many owners also believe that gearboxes "sealed for Life" means never having to carry out a transmission flush. Wrong! Manual & auto gearboxes require lubrication to be changed from time to time.
Love the CEE Australia recommendation. It's been one of my favorites for a while now. One video per week, but it's always incredible.
Great video, and a timely plug for Curtis, he has a new video every Friday. About to sit back with dinner, the dog, and start watching.
My 2018 Santa Fe 2.2 D has only done 13000 ks. I have had two electrical warranty repairs done. The dealer at North Lakes QLD has serviced it from new. No dramas getting it fixed. They know me by name. 10/10 for customer service.
I think most experiences are like that, across most brands.
My Genesis GV70 2.2D diesel is hands down the best passenger car diesel engine I have experienced. I have had a few. Most passengers cannot believe how quiet and smooth it is. NO turbo lag. Joy.
I change the oil myself between services at 7.5K’s . Service intervals at 15K’s is just too long for a business vehicle that is constantly on the road.
I remember back before we had self-service here in the U.S., the gas station attendants while filling the tank would check the oil and transmission fluid and notify you if it was low or dirty, hoping to sell fluids or maintenance. Most people nowadays don't even know how to open the hood, let alone check these things.
I'm in agreement that 12 month intervals are about as long as you would ever go, and even then only for ideal running conditions (which let's face it, almost no cars operate under). Most new car buyers just have no clue about the impact their driving style and conditions have.
It's also counter-intuitive. Less driving is worse for your oil than more driving.
Your telling me a vehicle with 6000mile intervals and synthetic oil that burns no oil between changes driven 5000 miles per year, needs an oil change. It will get one but no way that oil has lost its protection.
@@graywind4326 it's not just about the ability of the oil to lubricate, it's also about the ability to keep the generation of sludge down, keep the levels of fuel dilution oil down, getting the chance to keep valves clean from carbon (especially for direct injection motors), getting the chance to keep fuel injection systems clean, keeping carbon buildup in crankcase ventilation systems in check, getting the chance to change wiper blades, checking the condition of consumables like filters and brakes, checking tyre wear and alignment, looking for suspension wear etc.
@@virangaabeywickrema3901 agreed, I am just saying the car sitting and not being driven more than the recommended interval in a year, means once a year oil change is fine. Not every 6 months if you don’t hit the 6000 miles interval.
Been watching Curtis at CCE for a long time. He is a genius at repairing any heavy machinery.
Wasn’t expecting Curtis’s channel to get a mention here. Very satisfying watching him work.
Fantastic John - calling out what is expected - another great video
This happened to me. I had difficulty getting my Hyundai IX35 serviced during the pandemic, I was pretty good with annual services prior to that, but a year out of warranty the timing chain failed, and the exact issue you describe happened with the valves being destroyed. The mechanic I happened to break down next to, couldn't source a new engine and managed to rebuild it. I've already traded it in. Now I need to convince my wife to get her Prius C serviced...
A friend has a 2012 Boss 302. He told me last weekend while we were teaching Automotive Maintenance merit badge that he only changes his oil every two years (!!!!) because he drives it so little. I told him that I change the oil in the ST every 6 months when I change out the winter tires. His notion is that the high grade synthetic oil additive package he uses will last 24 months. I would never try that on mine.
Love the CEE channel, Kurtis is a wizard and Karen is a pretty handy video productionist.
They are a formidable team. And the Safety Officer rocks. Is there a dog, anywhere, with more toys?
@@AutoExpertJC With how quickly they are dispatched by Homeless I suspect so.
Here in the USA, I've serviced my direct fuel injected 2012 Mazda 3 every 5,000 miles. Car now has 316,000 miles (nearly 510,000 km) on the odometer. Only engine issue occurred near 75,000 miles when the intake valves carboned up. Dealer removed the carbon ($900), and updated the ECM. No other engine issues since.
You're right on, regular service pays!
what trans in your car?? interesting how some 'reprograming' kinda fixed that valve gunk issue....
A great video with sound advice. Love your work.
1. I have also purchased my i30 after a long time of documentation, including your videos and one line I still remember was "I know what poverty pack is and this isn't it" when talking about the base model. I now have an I30 "Highway" 1.5 T-GDI 160ps with a manual. The Highway trim level is right in the middle.
2. I read the terms and conditions of the warranty and you are allowed to go over the km and time by 1000KM of 1 month so, even the 15000 km and a bit I would say are ok. At least this is the case in EU, where I'm from.
Is that a diesel ?
@@garynew9637 It's a turbo petrol. Turbo Gasoline Direct Injection. T-GDI. It moves decent enough.
John - Thank you for a very well done video.
I live in Saskatchewan Canada where we have winter with temperature that can drop to minus 35 celsius or lower, for 5 months of the years and then the other seasons with summer temperatures than can reach well into the plus 30 Celsius range. All vehicle brands, sold in Canada consider this to fall into the severe service end of the scale, and so have a more frequent service schedule published in their manuals, and for good reasons.
Having worked for the local Honda dealer service department for 13 1/2 years, I was always astounded to hear customers decline recommended services, especially baffling when those services were coming from the dashboard display. We could explain to them how the ‘maintainence minder’ system worked and what parameters it used, yet for many, the declining of those services would still occur. This of course would be noted in their service history as well as be visible on their work order.
Common issues were overfilling of fuel tanks, so that the evap canister wold eventually become contaminated with excess fuel, triggering a check engine light. Explaining to clients why not to continue doing what they were doing still fell on deaf ears. Brake servicing (pulling apart calipers to clean and lubricate sliders, or clean drum brake adjusting systems) was another common item to be declined. With the wonderful summer dust we have, and then winter salts used on the snow covered roadways, brake calipers would eventually seize on sliders and as you well know, cause brake, expensive services, to happen.
It would also happen that people would come in with 60% oil life remaining and wanting to have an oil change done, as it had been a while since the last change. Our service advisors were instructed to explain to customers that they should consider following the maintainence minder recommendations, as Honda designed it, made the engine, and were not likely to set the system up so that a customer could follow it, and sustain engine damage. This bothered me a little until I realized that our service advisors were asking the customers and checking service records (if we had them) when the last time was that they had had the oil changed. If the time period was excessive then the oil change was recommended.
I’d just like to re-iterate that I appreciated the approach you took when explaining your thoughts on the Hyundai customer who experienced the timing chain failure and the unwillingness of the dealer to provide assistance.
This is a really interesting post! In Australia we don't get snow or such maybe swings in temperature. Our lowest here in Melbourne would be maybe 2c and our highest maybe 43 or so.
Greetings John, thank you very much for the explanation on engine oil and parts friction.
John,
I enjoy your videos from the US. As a semi-retired engineer, who performs all the basic maintenance on my car and my wife's car myself, you are spot on. I never let my service intervals for oil changes go past 5,000 miles, 8000km. Oil, gear lube & transmission fluid is cheap to extend the life of your vehicles. Keep up the great work. My wife & I hope to visit your beautiful country soon.
You just preset it so when you weld it pulls to square.
Or you can use a piece of rhs in a similar way clamping the plates to the outside faces
I'm a boilermaker who was lucky enough to be taught by guys that worked on the snowy river scheme and was taught 'real oldschool'.
These guys welded with electrodes they used to make themselves. Dipping a length of wire into a bucket of slip which was the flux and then letting them dry before using them, and 4111's cellulose electrodes, the real firesticks. A long 1" strip of treated paper wrapped around a piece of wire.
This.
You can use the fancy expensive fixturing, or you can just git gud and get it right.
In the US, many consider Kia (especially) and Hyundai junk. I think it’s due to most owners not servicing them. A relative of mine has an ‘04 Kia and it’s still in good shape, because it’s been maintained.
You can service a vehicle based upon time or distance. Engine operating hours are very helpful for vehicles used in fleets. Reasoning for engine operational time records can include excessive idling, sitting on the brakes during rush hour, as well as anything that requires a running engine on the vehicle in question.
In the Hyundai community I've heard of a few cases of engines blowing up with the new Elantra N. 100% of the time these cars have been modified. Let's be honest, Hyundai for the most part has always catered to a more "frugal" person. Frugal people tend to do their own work to try and save money. Some know what they're doing, most don't. They will claim their car was totally stock and just magically exploded, then you find the old posts where they had Turbo kits and tried doing their own half-a** tuning. I find it very frustrating because I have owned a couple Hyundai's as well as the new EN, they have been great cars, I also change the oil every 5000 miles myself.
In 2017 Hyundai Australia told me each dealership decides if it wants to honour warranty and look into disputes involving said dealership. HA said they only paid the bill and could pull warranty claims and refuse them.
I hope that this method has changed, it clearly did not work for Holden.
He caned bejesus out of it, chain snapped and that’s that…
Another long-term mechanic here, yes Iv'e seen my fair share of catastrophic failures due to interference fit engines. What had always stymied me from a design aspect was the belt/chain/gear methods of valve actuation. In my opinion valve actuation should have long since been driven solely by gears. I think it's a purposeful choice of cheaper systems fully known to "not lasting", a case of "planned" failure.
Does anybody do that? Aircraft engines?
Loved your metalworking segment John. Not sure about the good enough maxim. I always taught my students never to settle for second best but only ever you best, whatever that may be. In other words if you strive for perfection you are more likely to improve.
My wife recently drove a brand new Toyota RAV4 Hybrid for a public agency in regional Australia which covered around 500ks per day from day 1. By the time the local service agent was able to book it in for it's first service it had done nearly 20000ks. In Australia, and I believe many countries overseas, there is a major shortage of qualified service techs. We are waiting around 6 weeks to get cars booked in so it makes it a real balancing act to keep within the stipulated limits. Makes purchasing second hand and obtaining accurate service history really critical.
If you do the sums, old mate was one full service behind when the timing chain went. No wonder Hyundai weren't in a position to help him. Somehow I don't think he'll be repeating that mistake.
No, I think it was a real wake-up call.
Love the Tee shirt John - don't get me started... I'll talk about that aircraft for months! - all the best 😉
In the US many Hyundai and Kia engines are failing prematurely,some being recalled. Maybe this is because the engines are different to Aussie vehicles or maybe Oz vehicles have Korean built engines that might be better quality.
No, they are shit, low quality as yours
I would not be surprised at all if your statement is true. Some people in the US would actually prefer their truck made in Mexico versus here. The factory workers here are notorious.
I really enjoy all your videos and your delivery - keep it up old chap.
I couldn't count the litres of oil and multitude of filters I've bought for vehicles, both 2 and 4 wheeled, over the years.
But I do still vividly remember the two engines I catastrophically seized.
One down to the slippery stuff not being slippery enough, the second being it's absence in the required quantity.
Ah, the days of youth, with both engines martyred in pursuit of a very different kind of "servicing "...
They sell filters by the case where I come from they're cheaper that way
Ha! Ha! 🙂👍, Yup... Been there, done that & got the 'T' shirt.
Love the tee-shirt John and your humourous words of wisdom as always...Keep it up
thank you for explaining that I will be sure to get my car serviced on time it will be time as I don't drive the km but will keep up with the services thanks john
Get our "main" cars serviced every 6 months (2016 I30 SR, 2017 Santa Fe). The I30 goes to my mates shop, the Santa Fe is still with dealer (main services are free while in warranty). Once warranty is over though, it will be going to the same place as my I30.
In the 45 years I spent in the automotive repair, almost every vehicle that had a engine failure, outside of warrant, had not changed the oil on time. One that comes to mind seized the camshaft it the cylinder head twice. The second time he hadn't changed the oil since I did it when I repaired it the last time. He had traveled over 20thousand miles on dyno oil.
Great video John. Many people love to save $$ when buying a new car and often that attitude of saving money creeps over into looking after the car over the years. Services are skipped or sometimes not performed at all and if the owner thinks they will sell the car after 4/5 years, then any problems will be be for some one else. I say ' Look after the car and they will look after you'. I have no sympathy for people who disregard service intervals and then complain when something goes wrong.
John, I’d one day love to hear your thoughts on the Jordan Shanks’s home fires. I understand it’s probably a bit too early in the peace now, and this has a long way to go, but one day.
Another TH-cam site well worth adding to John's list is "I Do Cars".
Eric at I Do Cars tears down a lot of engines that have met their demise due to long servicing intervals or other forms of abuse.
The carnage he often reveals is both eye opening and very entertaining.
There is a class action lawsuit against Hyundai/Kia for poor QC with their engines. Hyundai/Kia knew about these engine issues since 2015 and still decided to sell their vehicles with said engine defects. I wouldn't but a Hyundai or Kia at the moment. The engine issues are not related to servicing.
I agree in this case that the owner is out of luck. On the other hand, in North America there have been many recalls for engine issues. They appear to be related to the US engine plants which have acknowledged quality control problems. I assume that Australia spec cars are sourced from Asia.
Hi John, do you have a link for those mega squares?
It's incredibly satisfying to weld something up and have it distort just perfectly the right amount to get it dead nuts square (without the use of fixturing).
My hino 300 runs about 15k km a month, and my Mazda 3, about 15k a year. Both driven exclusively by myself.
Those oil bills are ridiculous
4:18 humidity has the same effect on my knees, and hips, following a lifetime of using body parts as bumper bars on a motorcycle.
Working in mining, I have taken the habit of doing pre start check with my car , once a week in normal times, daily when in the bush (on board TPMS help with pressure ). Too many car users don’t seem to bother to look at their cars in between services : lights, tyre pressure, fluids (not only windscreen fluid) , dirty air vents or radiators …. Seem that users expect nothing to happen between services , that next visit will sort everything out …
John, who would be responsible if an expensive problem arose that would normally be covered by warranty because the dealer was not able to fit a car in for service? Recently, I rang the dealer to book my 2019 Nline in for a 50k km service and was told that I would have to wait for three weeks due to lack of staff. Would I be expected to park the car up when it reaches the service kilometres or do I keep driving?
I think three weeks would be OK. Keep records of your diligent attempt to book the car in on time.
I'm 50/50 on this issue. I over service on the km metric but under-service on time metric, despite what "they" say.
Modern service intervals are too long due to competition in the marketplace on this metric, and a number of known faults are simply fixed by voluntary shorter intervals. E.g. Toyota 2AZFE oil capillaries in pistons block up with long (but compliant) intervals, causing oil consumption and overheating.
I do all the minor servicing myself, use mechanics for major stuff like timing belts. I try to treat my Toyota 4cyl petrol and diesels to 5,000km intervals, will stretch if it's all highway km. I use fully synthetic Penrite oils and have watched Project Farm's lubricity tests on old but unused oil. The degradation in performance was minimal, and a good quality, old, synthetic oil is still better than a new, cheap, mineral oil. So yes, with fully synthetics I will let oil and oil filter changes go long, 2 or 3 years if car is driven sparingly BUT regularly. Don't let them sit and rot. I still check and top up oil, and I still check air filters and even if they don't need it will blow them out with a compressor in the reverse direction. Some of my vehicles have/had snorkels and prefilters.
I've always had good reliability and longevity out of my vehicles.
Had a Santa Fail snap chain at 200,000km, it was serviced every 10k.the driveshaft transfer box splines are a time bomb too.
What is your opinion of extended oil intervals with the backing of a used-oil analysis? I have a brand new Kona N-Line 1.6T. 8000 km per oil change with regular oil is understandable. But with a full-synthetic (I use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20) seems excessive. My previous car (Ford Focus ST 2.0L GTDI) is at 180,000km, has gone 13,000 km between oil changes. There's not a spot of varnish that I can see from the oil fill cap and the engine is silky smooth.
Thanks for the Cutting Edge Engineering recommendation. It is absolutely fascinating. I'm not sure I blinked sufficiently to moisten the eyeballs :)
My good old WJ Jeep 4.7 V8, I change the oil and filter at 5000km or 6 months without fail. The engine is still perfect and does not use oil at 210,000km on the clock.
Hi John, just wondering if with a low K diesel that is used as a daily run around. Would a catch can be a positive add-on? Cheers Mark
Not using a diesel for town driving would be a good start
@@theairstig9164 Probably :P can I run a catch can on a petrol?
Nice John. Quirky way to say, within tolerance, or "good enough". Might use that, cheers.
Good enough is good enough, seeing as perfectly precise is impossible.
@@AutoExpertJC Good enough explanation for me. Middle of tolerance is the aim. Just like the toilet seat, out of tolerance is unacceptable, but sometimes happens. :(
This is very eloquently said- thank you!
My car is serviced every year, even though 22 year's old and 150,000 Kim, it's expensive but it requires a warrant of certificate as well which is extremely strict here in sheepshsgastan.
Both myself and the wife have a couple of Hyundai cars, the wife car is a 2014 i30 with now 76,000Kms and is sutch a good little car that when iwas looking for a replacement for my own AU ford ( with 115,000 Kms ) on the clock and was written off after i had a argument with the retaining wires on the highway out of Launcestion. This car was written off due to cost of the repairs. But looking for a replacement car and after another reliable car for my self, i chose on a 2017 Hyundai Elantra with 31,500 Kms. This uses the same drive train as the i30. I have only had that car for a few months. Both cars are quiet, cheap to run and my Elantra averages around 6.0 Ltr/100 Kms . I'm over the moon with the fuel consumption with both cars.
As for servicing and over the years all of our cars ( we also have a 1995 Pajero diesel with 280,000 Kms and is mainly used to pull our caravan around Tasmania with ) have have a full service, oil, filter and a safty inspection every 12 months. Yes, it costs a little bit, BUT, cheaper than replacing a engine or buying another car. The Pajero just had a injector pump and injectors replaced, alone with the harmonic balancer at the same time, cost for that was north of $4100.00.
My wife and myself are now both on the aged pension and checking the wife's car that we have had for now now on 19 months, so not high mileage !!. My own car the Elantra and that was bought in August 2022 and only now have chalked up a further 2000 Kms.
yes totally about the fireball tool squares got mine a couple of years ago and they work fan bloody tastic worth every cent
That is a crazy distance to go between oil changes. And I am willing to bet he never checked his oil level. Timing chains require oil.
They do require lube, as is the case with so many critical components.
@@AutoExpertJC yes, personally, I prefer Astro glide
I had a friend with a mitsubishi - 4G63 engine - it had an oil and compression problem on number 3 - he fitted a hotter spark-plug to keep it burnt-clean of oil.
But even so - he theorised - that keeping the oil level low helped it to Not-misfire.
He wasn't happy unless the oil-pressure warning-light was occasionally flashing.
Drove it like that for 14 months.
On the very day he headed out to put in a 4G64 . . . all that camshaft drag finally 'won': the timing belt gave up.
My ‘11 Sonata spun a main bearing at 140,000 miles. Since I had it ‘detuned’ for recall service they told me it had a lifetime engine warranty.
They replaced the engine for free. Good on Hyundai but I am not so sure about buying another one.
Hi John, I 100% agree with you on servicing as a mechanic myself. I remember my grandfather who was a mechanic himself saying oil and filters are cheap engines ain't!
As regards warranty I wonder how I would fair against a car manufacturer seeing as I service my car myself. I have a 2014 Renault Fluence 1.5 diesel with an auto gearbox as my daily driver. I have a 1998 Toyota Landcruiser 3.0 Turbo diesel which I use at the weekend.
Regards, Barry.
I've taken my Ranger in twice for service and the dealer has said "IT"S TOO SOON!" ... I thought that was weird
Kurtis and Karen make a kickass team, the quality of the videos is top notch
Time in my case with an annual service. Always quick and painless with Subaru even during Covid times.
Wear a mask at the dealership and the car was washed down before the service people worked on it.
Cutting corners with servicing is just such a false economy.
Absolutely agreed, Andrew.
Very well put John. This is the reason I advise people (no I'm not a mechanic) to service their new car at the dealer. The responses I get is that the dealer is too expensive and they are being smart by going to the local mechanic, because he will fit OEM parts anyway and they are covered. I cannot convince them that when there is an issue and the shit hits the fan, good luck with your warranty. Hope they have a lawyer friend! Yes the local garage may be a little cheaper but in the end the law would be on your side if it was serviced at the dealer.
BTW I also own a 2018 Sante Fe Highlander, its only got 35K,. It is serviced by the dealer as stipulated in the service book no questions asked. Just had it serviced costing $480, and its not that expensive for a relatively large all wheel drive. So the ones that think they are being smart by saving $100 or so on a service take note of what John is saying and not end up like this poor fellow.
For most of my life I drove second hand cars that I spent less than £2000 on in todays money, so servicing was self-done and somewhat ad-hoc. Generally I was lucky, and cars back then being simpler affairs and being mechanically enclined I didn't really have too many problems. Some of my cars ended their relationship with me on a trip to the scrap yard but those I had for 5-10 years and the rest I sold on when I got bored or it proved to be a lemon from the outset. The more decent cars I had in my latter years (when I grew tired of lying on the ground replacing things!) I got serviced according to the schedule, and often I would put in an extra oil change service and inspection before winter and those cars I never had any problems with. The extra oil change wasn't expensive, and knowing that someone's had a good look at everything when you go into the shitty part of the year was reassuring. And when it came to selling on the cars I they sold easily for a good price, so I gained there without significantly increasing my servicing cots, and on a few occasions faults were detected that probably would have seen me standing in the snow waiting for recovery, or having a failure that would be far more expensive to fix. I'm not boasting here, I definitely could have treated my cars better than I did, but I did (eventually) learn that preventative maintenance is worth it both in a cost and time basis, because your car never goes wrong when you're not going to be needing it for a few weeks....
great video john i work in the automotive industry i know once every 12 months or 15000klms on most cars but some are 10000klms intervals 12 months if you dont do the 10k or 15k a year and you get to your service on the 12 month period it has to be done to keep the warranty valid because if something goes wrong and your over your time or klms they may decline a repair nealrly every new car has cap price servicing through dealer so you know in advance in what the cost would be even if your buying a demo car ask the dealer your buying from about the servicing cost so you know what your up for
Too true mate. Good advice.
FYI your equates to belonging to you , you’re is an abbreviation of you are !
It's interesting that this video comes up in my feed at this time, and raises a question re the servicing schedule. We own 2x 2017 Ford Escapes. One is a Trend, and the more (very) recent is a Titanium. After the purchase of the latter, we found out it was imported (don't get me started on that) from over the ditch by it's original owner when they chose sunshine over long white clouds. The scheduled service interval for our Aussie badged Trend is 12/15000, whereas it's kiwi cousin is 12/20000. Mechanically, these are the same vehicle (2.0DT + AWD), so why the difference in the log books? Another fun fact, when Ford Austraya started servicing the Titanium, they started noting next services at the 12/15000 interval.
Hi John.
I used to work for the Police in the UK. Certain BMW 3.0 diesel 3 series on the fleet were identified as having a major problem with engine fires and failure that BMW are attributing to oil condition. If one of the affected BMW's went as much as a mile or a day past its service due date it was placed permanently on a red list so any warranty claims were dismissed.
One particular force, when doing high speed driver training and tactics, were actually changing the oil at the end of every training day on their BMW's. My KIA Sorento GT Line S has now had four oil changes but, only two were according to the service schedule. I've had two interim changes done myself.
I recall a conversation a few years back with an independant garage owner who in turn related a convesation he had had with an oil company rep. The rep had said that car and oil manufacturers were not talking to each other about extended oil change intervals. He said that even the best, most expensive fully synthetic oil is starting to break down and lose its lubricating properties after around 8000 miles (12,875 Kilometres). From a car manufacturers economic point of view it makes perfect sense for their engines to fail just outside of warranty because they don't want them to last forever.
Keep up the great work.
Its BMW, soon AC, power steering and breaks will come with subscription
Except there is no epidemic of engines failing just outside warranty. Facts mate, facts.
Great very truthful video John.
Do I enjoy paying for 4 services in the less than 2 years I’ve owned my car? No. But I suspect I’d enjoy paying for a new engine in my Stinger even less!
Who pays more, pays less in the end. Allways.
Hi John I cannot find the MEGA square on their website and when I have emailed them received a link to a different square. Looks like a great bit of gear. pity you can not buy them???
Absolutely spot on. Even a bicycle requires servicing. It's not optional. All makers specify the necessary service requirements.
Appreciating the habu shirt there.
An amazing machine the blackbird was.
Thank you John. Could I please ask your advice on transmission and other AWD fluids? Specifically, we have a MY19 Hyundai Tucson diesel and the official service schedule states that the transmission oil is never replaced as part of the car's maintenance. I am not comfortable with never replacing lubricants in machinery moving parts (I'm very conservative in that regard). Would you suggest getting the oils in the gearboxes and transfer cases etc replaced every 30,000 - 45,000 kms even if not required under the official servicing? Many thanks.
Hi, I had a 2018 Tuscon 2.0 CRDI A/T. I would advise changing the ATF at about 5Years of age or 90000km, thats what i did, its going to cost you a arm and a leg unless you do it yourself, not that bad i did it. It does have a drain plug at the bottom of the sump you going to have to fill it through a round clip port in the front of a transmission, i got a tube in that hole and had it up to the top with a funnel and put the same ammount in i removed, drove it a week, and did the same, it holds about 6/7L if not mistaken but you wont be able to get everything out that way, but best you can do youself. And MAKE SURE you use the correct atf, here in South Africa i got a brand called Fuch's ATF 6400 with the spec Hyundai/Kia SP IV i think it was. But it should be in your manual. Follow the severe driving conditions intervals for transmission. Mine stated 90k km. Not sure about AWD mine was not AWD
@@shaun_wp7281 Thanks Shaun. I have heard of cases where transmission oil hasn't been changed for many many kms, and eventually when it is changed, the gear changes are worse. I simply don't believe any lubricant can last the lifetime of the car.
I'm having the same issue with my six year old Mazda CX5. No-one wants to change the fluid including the Mazda dealer. Then getting the correct fluid for my car is a whole other issue. You have to buy it through Mazda who don't seem to want to sell it to anybody other than their dealers. Wish I was in the US where you can easily buy the replacement fluid and filters etc online.
One of the worst things for the lifespan of ATF is exposure to air- this is probably the reason for removal of the dipstick on most engines, as it is a constant temptation to inspect and thus expose the ATF to oxidation.
Most manufacturers use the above as justification for 'lifetime' transmission fluid, but in reality that is a self-fulfilling prophecy; if you never change the fluid the trans will last until the fluid goes bad at which point the 'lifetime' of the transmission is over.
I did a partial change of my i30 CRDI's fluid (it's impossible to change it all without special equipment because some fluid is retained in the torque converter- I changed the contents of the pan, ran the car for a bit then changed again, giving about 75% replacement of the fluid) at about 150000 km, and the first drain looked quite discoloured. I'll probably do it again at 200,000 km.
I used to buy my oil direct from an oil company rep, he was always saying "oil is cheaper than metal" something that I have to agree with.
As valid today as it was a century ago.
@@krystal5887 No, Royal snowdrift Century oils
@@krystal5887 trouble is in 1992 they got taken over by Fuchs, a little off-putting knowing you have just fuchs your engine.
I bought my 2009 i30 card new. The car was used for work and for the 8 years I owned it did 300,000 km. I changed oil and filter at 6000 km intervals. The only thing I had to do was glo plugs at 230.000km. Always cooled down turbo before shutting down. My previous Comnadore wagons were each traded at 500,000 km with same servicing. Also auto trans 30,000 service no problems.
All of us engineers and mechanics may have slightly different opinions on service intervals, and nuances of when to service based on driving, but we all are saying that service must be performed to prolong the life of engines, transmissions and so forth. My personal opinion is to perform and oil change service every 5-6k miles (8-10k km) or every 6-8 months, using a quality synthetic oil and OEM filter, which one could argue that I could go longer between services, but the results of my service interval and recommendation speak for themselves, my 2012 Honda Odyssey with 155k miles (250k km) has been serviced my way since I purchased it over 4 years ago, and what I found when performing the valve clearance adjustment is that the engine internals are still very clean, a small amount a varnish, absolutely no sludge, also the engine doesn’t consume oil excessively like many other modern engines do, it may use 1L in the 5000 mile interval. But this idea that modern cars don’t need service is encouraged by manufacturers in my opinion, and much of the driving public believes that these machines are magic boxes that just need fuel, so now reliability reports can be skewed to be poor, when that shouldn’t be the case, because many manufacturers have improved their product in many ways, but if their customer base doesn’t care for it as they should we all see what happens.
Apart from timing chain issues the other major killer of modern engines is piston/ring issues, that's down to modern engines being excessivelty optimized for reduced friction of and "long life" service intervals. Although there is an enviromental impact of longer service intervals - waste oil etc. I think cost pressure to be competitive on depreciation and servicing costs for commercial leasing rates is a huge factor in this.