Bro never tap to a choke , if the person has a good arm bar lock on u yes tap in practice keep flow going but in competition fuck no get out of that shit and win the match
@@chokeeartist I mean you should tap to a choke in the room. Each time you get choked out and let yourself get choked out. It becomes easier and easier for it to happen to you. Its not bad for you like getting knocked unconscious, but it's still not good for you. In competition whatever, if you wanna get choked out for a medal its probably nbd. But if you're willing to let yourself take damage for a dumb medal you're an idiot. Your body will not recover forever, you will not be any better at BJJ for having to take months off to recover your broken arm. Ditch the ego and train smarter not harder. Maybe if you're purple or above you may homer Simpson out of an armbar if your lucky. But fucking around with locked heel hooks and kimuras... You're young and lack the awareness of age.
@@generallobster That is crazy. If someone was literally yelping in pain and not tapping in practice, I would question whether they know how to tap, or if something is like mentally wrong with them. And at blue belt? That's nuts. But props to you. I wouldn't roll with anyone who treats every roll like ADCC finals. Any weight. Any skill level.
@@Chewjitsu could you just spit your mouth guard out and give them more warning, “Look at me, it was a good roll, but I’m going to bust your arm if you don’t tap!” At them and their coach? Asking from a lower level belt perspective
I was in this exact situation in reverse. I lost in the finals to an armbar. It was really tight and my arm was popping and I didn’t tap. My opponent let go. The ref was confused but I gave it to him. He won. I wasn’t going to get out and he was 100% capable of breaking my arm. I’ve got nerve damage in my arm from the armbar and I thank the opponent t for taking better care for me, even in the finals, than I did myself.
The question is presented as a dichotomy: Should I let go or break the arm? There's a third choice and that is to hold the armbar as tight as possible without breaking the arm as long as they will allow you to do so. In a very calm manor verbally convey to the ref that is right there that you are in 100% control of your opponent, the opponent isn't tapping and the next step is to snap their arm. I've been there.........just sit there and wait for the ref's response. You may be surprised.
And in my opinion, the correct choice. Most locks/chokes, when done properly will act as a pin and the opponent can't really do anything. Any ref should call it if they see the lock being applied correctly.
@@keffbarn Ref is an outside factor out of your control. Ever needing to rely on an outside factor in combat is terrible (And this IS combat since we're talking about competition). You know what you are in complete control of? Breaking the dummy's arm. Tap or snap, only has him/her self to blame.
Guy walks into work after not tapping casted up “Kyle what happened? Did you have to protect your family?” Kyle- “no....had to win first place in the local Bjj tournament with only two of us in the weight class”
@@maxanderson3733 sadly i dont have that option...i started bjj at 250 i got down to 222 but when i did Fuji it was 215+ so i still got the big boys lol...unfortunately for me the guy in my finals match weighed 312 and i couldn't move him...i lost...however i am not gonna let someone break my arm i do this shit for fun not for a living...i need my arms to do my job to do this for fun 🤣
If you’re not willing to tap, then it’s your fault what happens to the arm. You can’t constantly keep going back to chokes, it makes more sense to do what works best depending on your position
@@alijalalzadeh745 first, it’s hard to get a neck crank, second, you ask the ref in that situation, because a neck crank can be way more devastating than a arm bar
I almost broke a guys arm because he wouldn't tap. When he did, his arm was hyper extended and he was in pain. I was going to keep going until he tapped. Later that day I asked him why didn't he tap. He actually said he didn't want to lose to me. So ya, if that's what it takes to get them to drop their ego, I'll keep going.
I was against it. But after reading your comment I agree if some cocky jerk thinks he’s too good to tap snap it but I wouldn’t break someone’s arm just to do it or just because he Didint tap. I’ve let someone go because I don’t want to ruin someone’s 6 months of training because they are stuborn
I usually just let it go if it’s deep and they refuse to tap. I’ll move on to something else. I’m not going to hurt someone over something I do as a hobby.
I get why some people wound't feel comfortable breaking their opponent's limb, but at the end of the day, the fault is all on the person not willing to tap. If you're comfortable breaking somone's limb, I think it's fair game. Tap, for the love of all things good, just tap. No competiton is more important than your long-term health. Admit that you lost, tap, and get back to training the next day to get better.
If youre gonna lose anyway yezh! Fuckin tap. But if youre willing to risk it for a split second to attempt an escape, well thats the cost of doing business, youre not gonna die.
And I would hope the ref would be able to recognize if the guy has a locked-in armbar. Ultimately it's on the ref, your coach, and (most importantly) yourself to avoid injury. None of that responsibility should fall on the opponent, unless of course they are breaking the rules. If they've got too big of an ego to tap, and you snap their arm, you can sleep peacefully knowing it was bound to happen to them at some point. But if you've got a sub locked in while in competition, don't just let that go!
Quite frankly, I'd love an opportunity like this in a comp. It would be really useful to know the difference between when you feel you've got someone at the limit, and then how much more you need to apply to get an actual break. So please guys, if you come up against me in a comp, please don't tap, I have some learning to do.
This kind of people were very common in judo, so the rules were changed, now if you get your arm broken or you pass out due to a choke, you get disqualified and you take your injury home as your reward for being an asshole. It´s actually considered unsportsmanlike attitude.
Except you get a ton of people at Judo comps who do the stupid MMA shit where you stop cranking when the ref steps in (not when the other guy taps). Seen a ton of damaged elbows because someone was worried that the ref might not have noticed the tap if they ease off too quickly.
Nobody (intelligent) is willing to get their arm broken for a 3 dollar medal at a white belt tournament. Anyone who would he would need a serous talking to from their coach.
Great video once again Chewy! I remember about 5 years ago at a comp I got my opponent in an arm bar which was tight, my overall control on him was tight, it was game over as far as I'm concerned. I didn't crank the sub because like you I didn't want to hurt him so for a moment I had him locked in. His coach said be careful, the ref even told the guy to be careful, I told him mid match I didn't want to hurt him yet he still grunted that he was never going to tap... Needless to say I had to break his arm as I knew he would go straight for the break if roles were reversed. Needless to say as a result of this guys toxic mentality I later found out that he missed many months of training due to this and never got back into training and to this day his arm isn't the same... Listen to Chewy guys, you may not want to but tap today so you can train tomorrow 😊
At my home gym. Respect the tap and don’t go crazy when you have the sub in deep. In competition it’s not over until the ref says it is or your opponent can no longer continue.
I've dislocated my shoulder twice before starting BJJ and im only a new white belt. My arm can hyper extend especially in a kamura flexion and all my training partners stop even before i feel discomfort and its nice knowing there's that level of care with the people whilst rolling
I don't know about this. Personally, I'd rather take the L than injure the guy. He might not be playing by the unspoken rules, but even so, I wouldn't wish a few months away from BJJ on others.
Yeah I don't have the years in like Chewie does, but this is sport, not self-defense. Don't break your opp's arm intentionally. Main problem I have is the same guy that won't tap is probably the same type of guy who would have less respect for his opp as well, overcrank, yank, and injure on purpose. Wrong message to put out because those guys aren't going to hear this any other way than "break his arm".
I understand your point, but this is beyond unspoken rules. I mean isn't this the point of BJJ and other martial arts, to disable your opponent? That's the point of the tap so the loser doesn't leave on a stretcher after every competition. Maybe this guy was brand new and didn't know his limits, but due to the fact that they ended up pretty even on points, that probably wasn't the case. This was either an ego issue (in which case, he probably won't last long in BJJ anyway), or more likely, the guy that had the armbar didn't have it as tight as he thought he did. I know there's been many times in training where I thought I had someone and was just waiting for them to tap, only to find out I didn't have it locked in as they made their escape. And vice versa... In competition I definitely wouldn't just let that armbar go. Be respectful and give slowly increasing pressure. Just because something cracks doesn't mean you hurt them. I'm 30 and my knees crack every time I bend them.
@@hokuspokusIiI mate its a combat sport. Break that fucking shit. Boyyyy you guys sound like you cover ur eyes and peak out the finger in a UFC fight. Break that fucking shit or get broken.
@@FightAddict1 Dude’s a white belt, his opponent prolly isn’t tapping because his position is wrong, one slight adjust and its snap crackle pop before he even knows he’s in trouble. Protect thy buddy, protect thyself. It’s a sport, this isn’t Cobra Kai, you’re going for the submission not the break.
I've never had to break something but I have had to put someone out in comp, dude went completely limp and the ref didnt call it so I had to make the call myself and let go. Guy flopped face down on the floor and didnt move for 6 full seconds which seems like an eternity in the moment before he started to wake up confused And while hes laying there the ref looks at me and says "did he tap?" Bruh you serious? Different story about refs not being on the ball was at a naga, guy got choked out and went to sleep, ref didnt call it, other guy kept holding it, unconscious guy started to have a seizure and the ref thought the seizure movements were him still being awake and fighting the choke Basically what I'm saying is you're the one responsible for your own safety out there. Dont expect a referee to step in and save you before it goes too far
Just like John Danaher says, a lot of people can tough through a broken limb, but nobody can fight going to sleep. It’s too bad we don’t get to always choose what submissions we get. 😂
@Leo Coelho That I have to disagree with. It may be a more difficult to lock up certain chokes, like the triangle if you have short legs or the opponent has wide shoulders, but the classic rear naked choke, north south or even guillotine will put anybody to sleep in the matter of seconds if done right.
@@MrStrongBro i'm not talking about applying chokes, some people (very rare of course) born with the neck muscle going around the carotid arteries, so you end up just squeezing the muscle but it does't cut the blood supply
I’ve been training 10 years now, I rarely tap people anymore. Usually I’ll hold and let them escape and we move on. 2 exceptions, 1) higher belts I go after because this is how I get better. 2) 1st day new people so they realize there are levels to this.
Even though I love Chewy and respect his opinion on the matter, I would never break someone's joint just to get my hand raised. I would do it only in a self defense situation where it is unavoidable. Also I think that if we are to learn a precious lesson from BJJ, it should be that life is precious and nothing is worth hurting it other than protecting ourselves and our loved ones. Competitions and medals come and go but mental development aspect of a martial art such as BJJ should mean something!!!
I hear you man but have to respectfully disagree on a point. You will do as you train, so there is value in really going after a sub, just like Chewy was saying, applying steady pressure till he taps (or not). I believe this will serve us well in case, God forbid, we would have to use BJJ in a real fight situation. I don't what level you are but Ive been doing BJJ for about 6-7 yrs and I can tell you applying a clean tight arm bar, which is a pretty basic move, is not easy. There are a ton of tiny details that can make this sub go from marginally effective to totally devastating.
I've always felt like there's a point the ref should step in and declare the match a win. Nobody should get their arm broken in a match and it shouldn't be up to the attacker to decide if they want to mangle a person to get a win. If the submission is locked in, there's no way out and the person should be tapping, call the match a tko or whatever.
Some people are super bendy though. I have a few students who literally don't have normal human anatomies . . . well they're just super flexible. But they know where their limits are. If you had a ref call it where they thought someone was done people like that would be short changed.
They "should be tapping"? What kind of absolute bullshit is that? Tapping is you surrendering. You decide when you surrender. If you don't, you don't. It clearly isn't "locked in" sufficiently. This kind of pussy crap is exactly how martial arts get watered down.
@@Chewjitsu There is always a limit for everybody. Everyone know when a submission is locked if you keep on going something bad will happen, regardless of how your joint is flexible. If you are in catched in a tight armbar and you haven't any chance to escape, the ref should stop the match. Period.
Then we just sit in an arm bar until the end of the match. I can hold it. But to be honest, there is a social contract. If this is feudal Japan, we go 100 percent and break shit. But this isn’t and we aren’t samurai. If it’s tight and sunk in, I have an obligation to the sport to recognize the skill and tap. If people start weaseling out of righteous victory then people will start going 100 percent out of the box. Then we are all broken and no one can train anymore.
Just don't assume an opponent will show you the same courtesy. Most will give you a chance to tap but some will try to snap it until the ref actually steps in even if you're tapping physically and verbally. Protect yourself at all times and don't assume your opponent will let go the moment you tap
@@user-tj1ev4gc9d Yeah like, what's exactly the point of breaking the arm of a dumbass to win a medal? I'd still rather not intentionally, consciously harm a person than get a medal. I will concede chewy's point that it's different at high levels. If you're competing for the world title, or money, like if it's a source of income. Plus at that level you can rely that your opponents know what they are doing by not tapping.
lol@ the good pop. yesterday i caught a guy in a guillotine, and his back popped all the way up, i let go like you did, and he stood up like "AAAAHHhhhh thanks"
I remember a tournament I had at white belt back in the day. I was way up on points with a few seconds left. The other guy locked in an ankle lock (allowed back then at white belt) and I decided not to tap and let time run out. I won that match and took gold...to this day 20ish years later that ankle is not the same. Sure wish I didn't have sh!t for brains back then and just tapped.
I learned the hard way as a white belt once did the same in a competition had it fully extended popping let go cos I was a big softie and ended up gassing and losing the match.. promised myself in future I’d just break it.
As a police officer I broke an offender’s arm with a wrist lock. He had a knife and had tried to stab me. I have no regrets, and would do it again in the same situation. But at BJJ training or competition I would not do it. We are doing it for sport, and it’s not worth injuring someone for that reason.
Its good to teach them that they need to tap in drills and rolling, and if needed in competition. Id rather tap to someone and lose than to get my arm broke and I may never be able to do something agian.
Thanks for the great video chewy, got my first comp in a week so all these types off first comp videos are great, would love to see one on how to get into the competion mindset and intensity
It depends the level of competition.. if it is a small local competition- hell no; but if you got Gordon ryan in an arm bar- you snap that thing clean off son and mount dat on your wall
Usually a good armbar is a pretty futile situation to try to escape from. Keep it tight and controlled and slowly apply more pressure but if they really really won't tap then that's on them
@@gyroninjamodder nah, it’s not about the medal. You join the tournament and know the rules, this ain’t ballet and I’m not your babysitter. If you chose not to tap that’s not my problem lol
@@xaviersales92 Guess that’s one way of thinking about it. If you don’t tap out your just an idiot. But I can also understand why you wouldn’t do it. They may be stupid for not tapping out, but you can also choose to be the bigger person and not break their arm
@@MfromN I mean if it’s against your morals then sure go for it but that’s also a sure way to prevent yourself from reaching your full potential. You know how many times I’ve had people pretend tap in competition? People play dirty, I hold onto the submission now (without cranking of course) till the referee validates the tap. Also, if you let go of that sub that you had to try to be the bigger person and the guy ends up getting the upper hand, you think he’ll be honourable enough to give you a pass? If your opponent gets the upper hand they’ll make sure they take it from you.
@@xaviersales92 Exactly. A lot of these "moral superiority" comments are coming from people who have never been in comp, or don't have the mindset for it. Comp is not rolling with your buddies in-front of a crowd. You're fighting.
I respect your sportsmanship, sparring and competition ethic. Great content mate. Although I don't have an insight from the world of BJJ, I can relate with regards to sparring in Kickboxing (K1 rules). It is a contract of mutual respect, but the respect is conditional. If you step in there, throwing with 80% speed and power, throwing oblique kicks, lead leg side kicks to the knees, knee stomps, spinning elbows, hammer fists, flying knees, lead leg snap kicks targeting the chin, heavy overhands etc... You best bet I'll be showing you the same level of respect in return... A.K.A - very little. It is all about give and take, and should you give me a solid test without targeting me in a manner that could cause long term injuries or concussions, you can expect the same in return from me - respectful, classy sparring in which steel sharpens steel.
It is everyone's responsibility to keep themselves safe on the mats, in competition or otherwise. Using the example provided: if your arm is fully compromised, you've attempted some escapes and it's not working, your ass needs to tap out otherwise it'll just be your ego getting you hurt. If I'm foolish enough to let my arm break (which, of course I would never do), I wouldn't dare blame my opponent for that--he's literally just doing the thing that we've both signed up to do.
I've gotten a little too eager just sparring in class. Now I let go even if they don't tap if there's nothing on the line. But in competition, you go until the ref says otherwise.
The chess equivalent is when someone is beaten (like for example they blunder their queen) and then they choose to play out the game instead of resigning. At least this is the case in high level chess not at the casual level
I hate the guys that think "if I don't tap it'll show everyone I'm tough" it's like "nah fam you didn't prove anything; all you did was give your opponent a highlight reel".
At the level I am at. If there isn’t another option I’d rather concede and not break their arm. It’s not worth it. Yes I’d literally lose, I’d tap out. Realistically I’d just give up the arm bar and try and move to something else.
As a Judoka, I've been faced with this problem a few times. I was outweighed by 3 weight classes 😅. The guy failed a throw, and I countered with an armbar, his arm was going to break. I let go, and he actually threw me for a half point. Next time, I got him in a choke. His hand was in the air about to tap, and he went out right before he could tap.
I was in a blue belt comp years ago. I had my opponent in north south choke. He started thrashing his body left and right so hard I was genuinely afraid he was going to break his own neck. I let him go. Ended up losing to a decision. To this day I feel I did the right thing.
Interesting philosophy Chewie. To me, it's just not that important. Even if the guy is 'cheating'. Winning\losing a match isn't worth breaking someone. I understand people who are extremely high up doing this for a living and have a few thousand on the line. But that $3 gold medal means nothing to anyone. It's not worth breaking someone over.
The Gracie Brothers teach an armbar release technique that maintains control. (Probably others do, too.) It's intended for a self-defense situation where you can't accept a tap, but it would probably also be applicable to a competition where the other person won't tap.
Awww man, same thing happened to me but I lost lol happened 3 weeks ago and I’ve been beating myself up ever since. Ashamed of myself for not having that killer instinct when I needed it.
Were you fighting to save your life, or just competing in a competition? As long as you have the killer instinct when (or much more likely if) you really need it, that’s what counts. And most people do.
Part of it is that because most people don’t try to break the arm at practice, the people getting armbar’d gain a false sense of security fighting against them. It’s actually pretty innocent. Lol
Exactly. It's why I always just tap in a roll when someone gets a sub locked in, even if it isn't hurting or straining. No point in trying to fight it, since in reality you wouldn't have the chance regardless and you'll only build a self-destructive habit.
In sparring rocking or knocking someone out feels terrible. I don't want to hurt anyone in a boxing bout but I also want to win as impressively as possible. I think theres a difference.
Chewy as soon as I heard that intro music any worry that I had whatsoever completely left my mind my body was at peace thank you sir for your continuing education and For Your Love of BJJ hope to meet you in train with you one of these days thanks for discussing this topic I am very interested to hear what you have to say
I lost a match 0 to 0 in intermediate Grappling Industries because I didn't want to break someone's foot who refused to tap to a toe hold that cracked their foot twice. I gave him two chances to tap (his ankle cracked both times) and he refused. I stopped the match to complain to the ref that I wasn't going to break the dude's foot. Because I complained to the ref I got a penalty point so that's how I lost 0-0. One of the only times I'm happy I lost haha. So not worth breaking someone's foot to win a match at a local comp.
I think I wouldn't break the arm because like you said, its just a competition, that isn't worth it, you have proved your ability to yourself. You don't need to ruin someone's arm just because they are to proud in a competition, also I don't think recognition for having won a match is worth the price of having to break a prideful man's arm and effect his ability to practice the art going forward. Just my opinion
Was at a comp on time and my boi out a lanky guy into an armbar he wouldn’t tap but due to the length of his arms I saw it there and shouted “wrist lock Pablo” he puts it on and the guy taps SOOOO goddamn quickly and the look 👀 of complete and utter contempt on his face after was quite comical
*I'm saying this before watching the video. Personally I've never put a submission on as hard as I possibly could because I acknowledge my opponent has a job and most likely a family. This isn't the UFC or high level Jiu Jitsu, I don't need to win that bad. It's lost me some comps and I doubt my opponents have the same concerns about me, but I can go home happy knowing I haven't purposely tried to injure someone.
Then you’re in the wrong sport my guy, I get not going hard on your teammates but if you have a submission in a comp do it, it’s on them if they don’t tap
@@bradc8576 No. Everyone has their own takes on this sport, no one way is wrong. I get great satisfaction out of knowing my opponent didn't get seriously hurt because of my ego. If your ego is that big that you need to snap someone's arm, maybe you're in the wrong sport...
@@bradc8576 Why do you care so much about your scorecard at the comp? You still know you won, and none of your friends will give a shit whether you went 2-2 or 3-1.
@@jacobday3826 You're shaming someone for doing the thing we all practice doing everyday; breaking someone's limb. The only person who has an ego is the one refusing to tap. Don't be a hypocrite, it's a combat sport. I think you're in the wrong one.
In the gym you keep slowly applying pressure until you think its about to break and just let it go, move on. In a competition you keep slowly applying pressure until it breaks.
Odds are he’s the type of guy to rip a sub on an opponent without easing into. If he doesn’t have regard for his body, he probably won’t have regard for your either.tough situation, but break his arm if that’s what it takes.
What? You mean it’s not the worlds greatest honor to be 1st out of 7, in 1 of 6 weight classes, in the 2nd biggest fed, regional open tournament held in the neighborhood rec center 😃.
J J I don’t see why he shouldn’t still compete with his point of view, which is the same as mine. At the end of the day we are still only competing for fun (unless there are competitions with huge prize money for competitors at our low level?). I wouldn’t break someone’s arm just to be able to say I won a tournament and get a $2 medal. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Now if I’m fighting to protect myself or someone else, that’s a different story and I’ll break whatever I need to to do that.
Reminds me of the Charles Oliveira vs Tony Ferguson fight, Tony never taps, like ever, as a result Charles damn near tore Tony’s arm in half, he was saved only by the horn at the end of the round
The first time my buddy grappled with us when we were like 14-16, he gets caught in an armbar and says the words "I think you're gonna break my arm" because he hadnt watched ufc and when we told him he could tap out he had no idea what we were talking about. Luckily he was rolling with the most skilled of my buddies and we were able to have that laugh without someones arm getting mangled
When I was like 8 some bully kid was pushing me around so we got to the ground and I ended up just lying on him really as he frantically tapped. Had no idea what he was doing and took it as some attempt at slaps so I started smacking him hard as I could
@@quantumblurrr hahahaa fuck man thats gotta be a moment, "damn this kids breakin my wrist i better tap" " damn now hes slappin the shit outta me i shouldnt have tapped"
Watching this rn while recovering from an armbar. I am a 0 stripe white belt who was armbarred by a 4 stripe blue belt and he cranked it heavily. No chance to even tap. Still hurts.
White belt here, I'm still not experienced enough to know if the guy didn't want to tap or if I'm submission is just not working so that's one of my concerns. I'm a late tapper myself not because I'm stubborn but because I want to know how far I can go trying to escape. Not sure if that's a dangerous behavior and I should review my posture. Thoughts on that?
Hey Chewy; I have a question for you. I have a problem and I believe it really curbs my growth. I am too afraid to hurt someone while rolling; especially with armbars, locks, knee on belly etc. For example I feel like if I snap the arm it's just gone break or otherwise injure the training partner. It is weird because I never had a problem punching people in muay thai sparring; so my problem is not aggression but the bjj submissions being prone to causing injury. I would be really ashamed if I caused someone harm. Have you had a student like me; what would you suggest? (disclaimer: English is not my first language, sorry about the crappy narration)
If they don't tap break their shit, protecting yourself also includes tapping. Im not gonna stop throwing head shots because the dude decided he doesnt want to block his head anymore
As a brown belt I broke a black belts arm in competition. It was a belly down armbar, when I felt the arm break (or dislocate probably) I let go instantly. I ended up losing that fight by points. I was really messed up about that. In training I used to do this armbar and always let go before they tapped because it was supertight. That mentality lead to me losing that fight imo. Im still not sure how to fix this, as I dont want to slap on supertight armbars on my training buddies, but I also dont want to lose a fight in the same way again.
This reminds me of the Charles olivera arm bar on tony Ferguson. It was super tight, looked like it was at the breaking point and tony never tapped and made it to the bell
When they don't tap I move to something evil. It's a shoulder lock and a choke at the same time. If you get it fully locked it's like a body triangle but splayed out. You also still have a hand free. That's when I gently let them know their ribs would be dust if need be. It's also inescapable in the sense you either have to be willing to damn near choke yourself out or let your shoulder pop out to get out. If they just try to hold on the gentle taps to the ribs with slaps and the choke point plus pain usually knocks em out fast. You curl up they get stretched out. Twist and they twist or get choked harder. Depending on the actual tournament if you can throw the ribs punches go ahead. But light slaps usually get them to twitch a bit and it hurts. Also let's you stretch the back out keeping them from getting good breaths in. Even if they tuck the chin you smuther them. Or damn near break their jaw with compressive force. If they bite they lose.
Okay so whenever I would be the one getting submitted. I never pushed it on limbs at all. Tap away. On chokes I push it a little bit more. As the one who is submitting, I would tell ppl when they’re done. On arm bars I would have the same problem. I pull it about max bend before hurting it. I pull it a little harder and if they don’t let go. I just jump off thinking it’s over Then they keep going. I think the key is to tell them “you’re done your done. I’m gonna break your arm/ knee/foot/limbs or choke you out “
I had a very similar situation on the 20th at the goodfight competition. I had an armbar locked and my opponent lifted me up and I activated my hips and had it locked. But I could've either snapped his arm or taken a slam. I stoped and rite befor I anything I loosened up and gradually fell and stayed safe but I lost due to he had the advantage somehow. The next fight he got disqualified for slamming someone in an armbar 🤷♂️. What should I have done taken the arm and break it or take the slam and win ?
I am not gonna break anyone's arm on purpose. No low level tournament win is worth it. Khabib had a setup to arm bar Justin Geithje. Instead of breaking his arm, he put him to sleep because he did not want to break his arm in front of his parents.
if it was a white belt or other low-level belts, I will let go of the arm, as you said, it's not worth it to be harmed, but for me, it's not worth it to harm someone either. if it was a high level belt, like brown, black, or any Dan level, then I will keep going, my oppononet knows what he's doing, so my concious will be clear if he gets harmed due to his tenacity.
I think the difference between the amateur's and the pros is that you know what you're getting involved in for example you're in there with Sakuraba and he puts the kimura on you know from his reputation that he's not letting go unless a) you either tap or b) he's getting a referee stoppage by ripping your elbow to bits.
Never break someone’s arm but broke someone’s elbow before. Trained with someone at my gym years back. He’s known for not wanting to tap. Have his arm isolated and straight but he’s still flopping like fish refusing to tap. So I hip up, it popped and bent the other way. Didn’t realize it’s actually so easy to break someone’s elbow once it’s straight. He told me he’s fine but didn’t show up for a year. I promise my prof to never do it again, probably in competition but not during training.
@@jacobday3826 Yes but frankly I wasn’t sure if James means elbow or forearm. There was time my prof was putting so much pressure on my forearm thought it’s gonna break. So I just tapped.
haha. I wish I could guarantee that! I'd be set for life. Sadly you'll have to hit the weight room. But it's still a nice shirt if you got something to show off.
Which is why there should be something in place there are judges there should've been a threshold not encouraging ending someones career and possible life if the limb is never healed right...I have no a hard time respecting jiu jitsu because of this you have to snap because it's a competition mentality.
Anyone willing to let their arm get broken over a 3 dollar medal has genuine issues and needs help
Ok I understand the medal
But what about the $14.99 sword?
There's people who will let their arm get broken on their 11th roll of the day at 8:00 on a Wednesday, just gotta find the right (wrong) gym.
Bro never tap to a choke , if the person has a good arm bar lock on u yes tap in practice keep flow going but in competition fuck no get out of that shit and win the match
@@chokeeartist I mean you should tap to a choke in the room. Each time you get choked out and let yourself get choked out. It becomes easier and easier for it to happen to you. Its not bad for you like getting knocked unconscious, but it's still not good for you. In competition whatever, if you wanna get choked out for a medal its probably nbd.
But if you're willing to let yourself take damage for a dumb medal you're an idiot. Your body will not recover forever, you will not be any better at BJJ for having to take months off to recover your broken arm. Ditch the ego and train smarter not harder. Maybe if you're purple or above you may homer Simpson out of an armbar if your lucky. But fucking around with locked heel hooks and kimuras... You're young and lack the awareness of age.
@@generallobster That is crazy. If someone was literally yelping in pain and not tapping in practice, I would question whether they know how to tap, or if something is like mentally wrong with them. And at blue belt? That's nuts. But props to you. I wouldn't roll with anyone who treats every roll like ADCC finals. Any weight. Any skill level.
“If He Dies He Dies” - Ivan Drago Rocky 4
😂😂😂😂😂😂😝😝😝😝
Haha classic
Remember to say it in a deep russian accent..
Drago: "you will lose" in deep unsympathetic Russian accent.
Creed: okaaay there, buddy . . .
I thought that was Steve Mazagatti.
if they aint tappin', get to snappin'
-gandhi (maybe)
That's Deep.
@@Chewjitsu you know what's deeper? The arm bar
Lmao
😅😅
@@Chewjitsu could you just spit your mouth guard out and give them more warning, “Look at me, it was a good roll, but I’m going to bust your arm if you don’t tap!” At them and their coach? Asking from a lower level belt perspective
I was in this exact situation in reverse. I lost in the finals to an armbar. It was really tight and my arm was popping and I didn’t tap. My opponent let go. The ref was confused but I gave it to him. He won. I wasn’t going to get out and he was 100% capable of breaking my arm. I’ve got nerve damage in my arm from the armbar and I thank the opponent t for taking better care for me, even in the finals, than I did myself.
The question is presented as a dichotomy:
Should I let go or break the arm?
There's a third choice and that is to hold the armbar as tight as possible without breaking the arm as long as they will allow you to do so. In a very calm manor verbally convey to the ref that is right there that you are in 100% control of your opponent, the opponent isn't tapping and the next step is to snap their arm.
I've been there.........just sit there and wait for the ref's response.
You may be surprised.
BEST RESPONSE. . . .PERIOD
JOHN 8:32
No, it’s 100% your fault if you don’t want to tap, either put slightly more pressure on the armbar, or break that shit
And in my opinion, the correct choice. Most locks/chokes, when done properly will act as a pin and the opponent can't really do anything. Any ref should call it if they see the lock being applied correctly.
yeah i was just going to comment this. even warning the opponent too as a last resort before following through with it.
@@keffbarn Ref is an outside factor out of your control. Ever needing to rely on an outside factor in combat is terrible (And this IS combat since we're talking about competition). You know what you are in complete control of? Breaking the dummy's arm. Tap or snap, only has him/her self to blame.
Guy walks into work after not tapping casted up “Kyle what happened? Did you have to protect your family?” Kyle- “no....had to win first place in the local Bjj tournament with only two of us in the weight class”
....and lost
@@rickt9569 we all know a Kyle, they’d leave that out
@@Smitty9430 don't be a kyle 😂
@@rickt9569 also don’t be in an upper weight class. Too many monsters up there lmfao
@@maxanderson3733 sadly i dont have that option...i started bjj at 250 i got down to 222 but when i did Fuji it was 215+ so i still got the big boys lol...unfortunately for me the guy in my finals match weighed 312 and i couldn't move him...i lost...however i am not gonna let someone break my arm i do this shit for fun not for a living...i need my arms to do my job to do this for fun 🤣
This is why chokes are the best. If the other guy doesn't tap, he just goes to sleep. Issues of conscience don't even need to come into it.
If you’re not willing to tap, then it’s your fault what happens to the arm. You can’t constantly keep going back to chokes, it makes more sense to do what works best depending on your position
@@2kmichaeljordan438 i mean what if get him to a neck crank and he doesnt tap? Would you break the neck?
@@alijalalzadeh745 first, it’s hard to get a neck crank, second, you ask the ref in that situation, because a neck crank can be way more devastating than a arm bar
@@2kmichaeljordan438 michael jordan giving me BJJ tips... cool
@@2kmichaeljordan438 im not a BJJ practitioner(planning to practice it this year), so i thought you cannot talk to anyone in a match
I almost broke a guys arm because he wouldn't tap. When he did, his arm was hyper extended and he was in pain. I was going to keep going until he tapped. Later that day I asked him why didn't he tap. He actually said he didn't want to lose to me. So ya, if that's what it takes to get them to drop their ego, I'll keep going.
Some people need to be humbled and realize that their just not the better fighter
I was against it. But after reading your comment I agree if some cocky jerk thinks he’s too good to tap snap it but I wouldn’t break someone’s arm just to do it or just because he Didint tap. I’ve let someone go because I don’t want to ruin someone’s 6 months of training because they are stuborn
Well if I are good enough just tap him in another way
I usually just let it go if it’s deep and they refuse to tap. I’ll move on to something else. I’m not going to hurt someone over something I do as a hobby.
@@JerrysJets that and people still have to work. Can’t work with a broken arm
“He who does not tap surrenders himself
to the mercy of his enemy” - Khabib, probably
"the one who taps too early will get his ass beaten even more in an aftermatch mayhem" - Khabib, certantly
@Ponus he's referring to the brawl that happened as the aftermath to the mcgregor fight ufc 229
I get why some people wound't feel comfortable breaking their opponent's limb, but at the end of the day, the fault is all on the person not willing to tap. If you're comfortable breaking somone's limb, I think it's fair game.
Tap, for the love of all things good, just tap. No competiton is more important than your long-term health. Admit that you lost, tap, and get back to training the next day to get better.
Yes !
If youre gonna lose anyway yezh! Fuckin tap. But if youre willing to risk it for a split second to attempt an escape, well thats the cost of doing business, youre not gonna die.
And I would hope the ref would be able to recognize if the guy has a locked-in armbar. Ultimately it's on the ref, your coach, and (most importantly) yourself to avoid injury. None of that responsibility should fall on the opponent, unless of course they are breaking the rules. If they've got too big of an ego to tap, and you snap their arm, you can sleep peacefully knowing it was bound to happen to them at some point. But if you've got a sub locked in while in competition, don't just let that go!
Quite frankly, I'd love an opportunity like this in a comp. It would be really useful to know the difference between when you feel you've got someone at the limit, and then how much more you need to apply to get an actual break. So please guys, if you come up against me in a comp, please don't tap, I have some learning to do.
With that said dont just crank on people. You know when you have a submission locked in, and you dont need to just break people immediately.
This kind of people were very common in judo, so the rules were changed, now if you get your arm broken or you pass out due to a choke, you get disqualified and you take your injury home as your reward for being an asshole. It´s actually considered unsportsmanlike attitude.
Except you get a ton of people at Judo comps who do the stupid MMA shit where you stop cranking when the ref steps in (not when the other guy taps). Seen a ton of damaged elbows because someone was worried that the ref might not have noticed the tap if they ease off too quickly.
He who does not tap, does not go unharmed
-Jesus probably
Yeah I remember writing that on the 11 commandments or whatever 😂
I thought sun tzu said that
@@maxzhao8331 I thought it was Seneca. . .
@@Chewjitsu lol
@@Chewjitsu 😂
''Submit your enemies incrementally, see them tap out before you, hear the admiration of the spectators !''
I needed to hear this. First comp is coming up and this is a serious concern of mine. Thank you for the wisdom 🙏
Yeah man I'm in the same boat!
Don't worry, this is pretty rare. I haven't had it happen to me.
@@robstacey4082 thank you!
Nobody (intelligent) is willing to get their arm broken for a 3 dollar medal at a white belt tournament. Anyone who would he would need a serous talking to from their coach.
Good luck guys
Great video once again Chewy!
I remember about 5 years ago at a comp I got my opponent in an arm bar which was tight, my overall control on him was tight, it was game over as far as I'm concerned. I didn't crank the sub because like you I didn't want to hurt him so for a moment I had him locked in. His coach said be careful, the ref even told the guy to be careful, I told him mid match I didn't want to hurt him yet he still grunted that he was never going to tap... Needless to say I had to break his arm as I knew he would go straight for the break if roles were reversed.
Needless to say as a result of this guys toxic mentality I later found out that he missed many months of training due to this and never got back into training and to this day his arm isn't the same... Listen to Chewy guys, you may not want to but tap today so you can train tomorrow 😊
At my home gym. Respect the tap and don’t go crazy when you have the sub in deep.
In competition it’s not over until the ref says it is or your opponent can no longer continue.
I think unlike MMA in BJJ you're supposed to respect the tap
@@andrzejagria1391 you do respect the tap in mma what the fuck they aren’t heathens😳
Bro its a bjj tournament, unless its like super hidden or your unsure you respect the tap
@@o.j9793 isn't the ref supposed to stop the fight after your opponent taps in MMA?
In mma your only job as a fighter is to DAMAGE YOUR ENEMY. The REFEREE is PAID to protect BOTH fighters.
I've dislocated my shoulder twice before starting BJJ and im only a new white belt. My arm can hyper extend especially in a kamura flexion and all my training partners stop even before i feel discomfort and its nice knowing there's that level of care with the people whilst rolling
I don't know about this. Personally, I'd rather take the L than injure the guy. He might not be playing by the unspoken rules, but even so, I wouldn't wish a few months away from BJJ on others.
Yeah I don't have the years in like Chewie does, but this is sport, not self-defense. Don't break your opp's arm intentionally.
Main problem I have is the same guy that won't tap is probably the same type of guy who would have less respect for his opp as well, overcrank, yank, and injure on purpose.
Wrong message to put out because those guys aren't going to hear this any other way than "break his arm".
I understand your point, but this is beyond unspoken rules. I mean isn't this the point of BJJ and other martial arts, to disable your opponent? That's the point of the tap so the loser doesn't leave on a stretcher after every competition. Maybe this guy was brand new and didn't know his limits, but due to the fact that they ended up pretty even on points, that probably wasn't the case. This was either an ego issue (in which case, he probably won't last long in BJJ anyway), or more likely, the guy that had the armbar didn't have it as tight as he thought he did. I know there's been many times in training where I thought I had someone and was just waiting for them to tap, only to find out I didn't have it locked in as they made their escape. And vice versa...
In competition I definitely wouldn't just let that armbar go. Be respectful and give slowly increasing pressure. Just because something cracks doesn't mean you hurt them. I'm 30 and my knees crack every time I bend them.
@@beardofnursing8602 well said, most people will tap if you just hip up slowly
@@hokuspokusIiI mate its a combat sport. Break that fucking shit. Boyyyy you guys sound like you cover ur eyes and peak out the finger in a UFC fight. Break that fucking shit or get broken.
@@FightAddict1 Dude’s a white belt, his opponent prolly isn’t tapping because his position is wrong, one slight adjust and its snap crackle pop before he even knows he’s in trouble.
Protect thy buddy, protect thyself.
It’s a sport, this isn’t Cobra Kai, you’re going for the submission not the break.
I've never had to break something but I have had to put someone out in comp, dude went completely limp and the ref didnt call it so I had to make the call myself and let go. Guy flopped face down on the floor and didnt move for 6 full seconds which seems like an eternity in the moment before he started to wake up confused
And while hes laying there the ref looks at me and says "did he tap?"
Bruh you serious?
Different story about refs not being on the ball was at a naga, guy got choked out and went to sleep, ref didnt call it, other guy kept holding it, unconscious guy started to have a seizure and the ref thought the seizure movements were him still being awake and fighting the choke
Basically what I'm saying is you're the one responsible for your own safety out there. Dont expect a referee to step in and save you before it goes too far
Great comment bro. Tap early, tap often folks. It's BJJ.
Just like John Danaher says, a lot of people can tough through a broken limb, but nobody can fight going to sleep. It’s too bad we don’t get to always choose what submissions we get. 😂
For the record Danaher wasn’t the first to say that.
May i refer you to Helio Gracie.
@@ironsurvival7011 very true lol
some people are imune to chokes
@Leo Coelho That I have to disagree with. It may be a more difficult to lock up certain chokes, like the triangle if you have short legs or the opponent has wide shoulders, but the classic rear naked choke, north south or even guillotine will put anybody to sleep in the matter of seconds if done right.
@@MrStrongBro i'm not talking about applying chokes, some people (very rare of course) born with the neck muscle going around the carotid arteries, so you end up just squeezing the muscle but it does't cut the blood supply
I’ve been training 10 years now, I rarely tap people anymore. Usually I’ll hold and let them escape and we move on. 2 exceptions, 1) higher belts I go after because this is how I get better. 2) 1st day new people so they realize there are levels to this.
Ur a nice guy.
Chewy, I'm worried about Gordon Ryan slapping me. How would you defend and what would you do?
Use taekwondo it’s his weakness
Call Pat Downey
Bend over so if he slaps you he’s forced to slap your ass and that’s gay
@@hankriseshill1898 then I can use it as a lawsuit. Good idea
Manage the distance.
Even though I love Chewy and respect his opinion on the matter, I would never break someone's joint just to get my hand raised. I would do it only in a self defense situation where it is unavoidable. Also I think that if we are to learn a precious lesson from BJJ, it should be that life is precious and nothing is worth hurting it other than protecting ourselves and our loved ones. Competitions and medals come and go but mental development aspect of a martial art such as BJJ should mean something!!!
I hear you man but have to respectfully disagree on a point. You will do as you train, so there is value in really going after a sub, just like Chewy was saying, applying steady pressure till he taps (or not). I believe this will serve us well in case, God forbid, we would have to use BJJ in a real fight situation. I don't what level you are but Ive been doing BJJ for about 6-7 yrs and I can tell you applying a clean tight arm bar, which is a pretty basic move, is not easy. There are a ton of tiny details that can make this sub go from marginally effective to totally devastating.
@@danielcho3270 I just don't think I have it in me to knowingly break someones arm who isn't tapping even if their decision is moronic
i agree, but i think it changes in like the adcc finals for example.
“Should I have snapped that arm and take it home with me?!” 😂 💀👏🏼
If i don't come home with at least one opponent's limb, I see the tournament as a HUGE failure.
"I've gotta win this regional white belt tournament that means nothing to anybody else but me!" Damn, lol
a small price to pay for a white belt tournament trophy
You are you.
Oldest rule in Jits tap snap or nap 🤙
thats fuckin hilarious i just put on a shirt that says this less than 30 seconds ago
I haven't tapped once in 6 months, well of course the gyms are closed atm but anyway still counts right?
no
I haven't tapped since February 2020 :( Hopefully it'll be back in the UK soon.
Same... :-(
@@LucasKingPiano For me it’s been since March, low key miss that feeling. 😭
everything closed since October. RIP
I've always felt like there's a point the ref should step in and declare the match a win. Nobody should get their arm broken in a match and it shouldn't be up to the attacker to decide if they want to mangle a person to get a win. If the submission is locked in, there's no way out and the person should be tapping, call the match a tko or whatever.
Some people are super bendy though. I have a few students who literally don't have normal human anatomies . . . well they're just super flexible. But they know where their limits are. If you had a ref call it where they thought someone was done people like that would be short changed.
They "should be tapping"? What kind of absolute bullshit is that? Tapping is you surrendering. You decide when you surrender. If you don't, you don't. It clearly isn't "locked in" sufficiently.
This kind of pussy crap is exactly how martial arts get watered down.
@@Chewjitsu
There is always a limit for everybody.
Everyone know when a submission is locked if you keep on going something bad will happen, regardless of how your joint is flexible.
If you are in catched in a tight armbar and you haven't any chance to escape, the ref should stop the match. Period.
Then we just sit in an arm bar until the end of the match. I can hold it.
But to be honest, there is a social contract. If this is feudal Japan, we go 100 percent and break shit. But this isn’t and we aren’t samurai. If it’s tight and sunk in, I have an obligation to the sport to recognize the skill and tap. If people start weaseling out of righteous victory then people will start going 100 percent out of the box.
Then we are all broken and no one can train anymore.
Just don't assume an opponent will show you the same courtesy. Most will give you a chance to tap but some will try to snap it until the ref actually steps in even if you're tapping physically and verbally.
Protect yourself at all times and don't assume your opponent will let go the moment you tap
@@user-tj1ev4gc9d Yeah like, what's exactly the point of breaking the arm of a dumbass to win a medal? I'd still rather not intentionally, consciously harm a person than get a medal.
I will concede chewy's point that it's different at high levels. If you're competing for the world title, or money, like if it's a source of income. Plus at that level you can rely that your opponents know what they are doing by not tapping.
Yeah I have a couple tournaments coming up in may/June and as a white belt where this is gonna be my first tournament I definitely wanted to hear this
lol@ the good pop.
yesterday i caught a guy in a guillotine, and his back popped all the way up, i let go like you did, and he stood up like "AAAAHHhhhh thanks"
That must have felt great
I remember a tournament I had at white belt back in the day. I was way up on points with a few seconds left. The other guy locked in an ankle lock (allowed back then at white belt) and I decided not to tap and let time run out. I won that match and took gold...to this day 20ish years later that ankle is not the same. Sure wish I didn't have sh!t for brains back then and just tapped.
I learned the hard way as a white belt once did the same in a competition had it fully extended popping let go cos I was a big softie and ended up gassing and losing the match.. promised myself in future I’d just break it.
As a police officer I broke an offender’s arm with a wrist lock. He had a knife and had tried to stab me. I have no regrets, and would do it again in the same situation.
But at BJJ training or competition I would not do it. We are doing it for sport, and it’s not worth injuring someone for that reason.
Good job officer horse
HallowayMMA and yes, I was in the Mounted Police, but not at the time of that particular arrest.
Oh man, wrists can snap so fast. Glad you're OK and got the knife, dangerous.
Me too. Crazy sound that still puts a knot in my throat, BUT, I'd do it again if needed.
Its good to teach them that they need to tap in drills and rolling, and if needed in competition. Id rather tap to someone and lose than to get my arm broke and I may never be able to do something agian.
Exactly, i get not tapping and trying to survive things like a triangle choke for example, but the second I get put into a good arm bar im tapping
I'd like better to risk and loose a match letting go a locked submission, than injurying an hobbist like me who has to go to work the next day.
Thanks for the great video chewy, got my first comp in a week so all these types off first comp videos are great, would love to see one on how to get into the competion mindset and intensity
It depends the level of competition.. if it is a small local competition- hell no; but if you got Gordon ryan in an arm bar- you snap that thing clean off son and mount dat on your wall
Usually a good armbar is a pretty futile situation to try to escape from. Keep it tight and controlled and slowly apply more pressure but if they really really won't tap then that's on them
I’d break it. If that’s what they want to sacrifice for a $3 medal that’s their decision.
Conversely, would you be willing to seriously injure someone over a $3 medal.
@@gyroninjamodder nah, it’s not about the medal. You join the tournament and know the rules, this ain’t ballet and I’m not your babysitter. If you chose not to tap that’s not my problem lol
@@xaviersales92 Guess that’s one way of thinking about it. If you don’t tap out your just an idiot. But I can also understand why you wouldn’t do it. They may be stupid for not tapping out, but you can also choose to be the bigger person and not break their arm
@@MfromN I mean if it’s against your morals then sure go for it but that’s also a sure way to prevent yourself from reaching your full potential. You know how many times I’ve had people pretend tap in competition? People play dirty, I hold onto the submission now (without cranking of course) till the referee validates the tap. Also, if you let go of that sub that you had to try to be the bigger person and the guy ends up getting the upper hand, you think he’ll be honourable enough to give you a pass? If your opponent gets the upper hand they’ll make sure they take it from you.
@@xaviersales92 Exactly. A lot of these "moral superiority" comments are coming from people who have never been in comp, or don't have the mindset for it. Comp is not rolling with your buddies in-front of a crowd. You're fighting.
I respect your sportsmanship, sparring and competition ethic. Great content mate. Although I don't have an insight from the world of BJJ, I can relate with regards to sparring in Kickboxing (K1 rules). It is a contract of mutual respect, but the respect is conditional. If you step in there, throwing with 80% speed and power, throwing oblique kicks, lead leg side kicks to the knees, knee stomps, spinning elbows, hammer fists, flying knees, lead leg snap kicks targeting the chin, heavy overhands etc... You best bet I'll be showing you the same level of respect in return... A.K.A - very little. It is all about give and take, and should you give me a solid test without targeting me in a manner that could cause long term injuries or concussions, you can expect the same in return from me - respectful, classy sparring in which steel sharpens steel.
Hard agree, they're adults and know the consequences, if they're willing to break their own arm I'm not going to stop them
Lmao they basically asking for it by not tapping
I'm really concerned about what jiu jitsu starts to become due to much ego and wrong attitude from some people.
It is everyone's responsibility to keep themselves safe on the mats, in competition or otherwise. Using the example provided: if your arm is fully compromised, you've attempted some escapes and it's not working, your ass needs to tap out otherwise it'll just be your ego getting you hurt.
If I'm foolish enough to let my arm break (which, of course I would never do), I wouldn't dare blame my opponent for that--he's literally just doing the thing that we've both signed up to do.
Thanks for keepin it real Chewy!
Tap or snap, respect the technique.
I've gotten a little too eager just sparring in class. Now I let go even if they don't tap if there's nothing on the line. But in competition, you go until the ref says otherwise.
The chess equivalent is when someone is beaten (like for example they blunder their queen) and then they choose to play out the game instead of resigning. At least this is the case in high level chess not at the casual level
I hate the guys that think "if I don't tap it'll show everyone I'm tough" it's like "nah fam you didn't prove anything; all you did was give your opponent a highlight reel".
U the perfect person on TH-cam u anser my jujitsu questions before I can think of the question it is already answered
Look up Rousimar Palhares and follow his example. You will soon find that everybody taps before you even start the match.
At the level I am at. If there isn’t another option I’d rather concede and not break their arm. It’s not worth it. Yes I’d literally lose, I’d tap out.
Realistically I’d just give up the arm bar and try and move to something else.
As a Judoka, I've been faced with this problem a few times. I was outweighed by 3 weight classes 😅. The guy failed a throw, and I countered with an armbar, his arm was going to break. I let go, and he actually threw me for a half point. Next time, I got him in a choke. His hand was in the air about to tap, and he went out right before he could tap.
will you guys do an gym etiquette video?
Craig Jones broke Gordon Ryan's arm and then Ryan escaped and won
Huge respect to both those men. At that level of competition I can understand why they might think that way, even though I disagree.
@@horseman9582 for sure, how good was jones though to catch Ryan like that
And I understand why guys like that would risk it.
Love your channel and I agree 100% about the Kimora lock.
I was in a blue belt comp years ago. I had my opponent in north south choke. He started thrashing his body left and right so hard I was genuinely afraid he was going to break his own neck. I let him go. Ended up losing to a decision. To this day I feel I did the right thing.
You're a good man. He may have not thanked you but his children, spouse, parents and friends that rely on him will appreciate having non injured him.
Interesting philosophy Chewie. To me, it's just not that important. Even if the guy is 'cheating'. Winning\losing a match isn't worth breaking someone. I understand people who are extremely high up doing this for a living and have a few thousand on the line. But that $3 gold medal means nothing to anyone. It's not worth breaking someone over.
The Gracie Brothers teach an armbar release technique that maintains control. (Probably others do, too.) It's intended for a self-defense situation where you can't accept a tap, but it would probably also be applicable to a competition where the other person won't tap.
Awww man, same thing happened to me but I lost lol happened 3 weeks ago and I’ve been beating myself up ever since. Ashamed of myself for not having that killer instinct when I needed it.
In your defense, that's not when you needed it, just when you wanted it
I mean unless it was black belt worlds, it doesnt really matter.
@@samurai41a49 great way to put it
Were you fighting to save your life, or just competing in a competition? As long as you have the killer instinct when (or much more likely if) you really need it, that’s what counts. And most people do.
It's just a competition dude! No need for a killer instinct there! Good job protecting yourself and showing respect to others!
Also big difference between tapping to chokes and tapping to joint attacks
Part of it is that because most people don’t try to break the arm at practice, the people getting armbar’d gain a false sense of security fighting against them. It’s actually pretty innocent. Lol
Exactly. It's why I always just tap in a roll when someone gets a sub locked in, even if it isn't hurting or straining. No point in trying to fight it, since in reality you wouldn't have the chance regardless and you'll only build a self-destructive habit.
What's weird is, i know i have no problems knocking out a guy in boxing, but i can't break someone's arm in jiujitsu.
In sparring rocking or knocking someone out feels terrible. I don't want to hurt anyone in a boxing bout but I also want to win as impressively as possible. I think theres a difference.
Probs cause it’s also a much quicker recovery from being knocked out than having any limb broken lol
I could see that. When you pop someone it's not like feeling their arm or leg crack and pop in your arms. Weird ain't it?
@N Webb True lol I forgot about that
Chewy as soon as I heard that intro music any worry that I had whatsoever completely left my mind my body was at peace thank you sir for your continuing education and For Your Love of BJJ hope to meet you in train with you one of these days thanks for discussing this topic I am very interested to hear what you have to say
I lost a match 0 to 0 in intermediate Grappling Industries because I didn't want to break someone's foot who refused to tap to a toe hold that cracked their foot twice. I gave him two chances to tap (his ankle cracked both times) and he refused. I stopped the match to complain to the ref that I wasn't going to break the dude's foot. Because I complained to the ref I got a penalty point so that's how I lost 0-0. One of the only times I'm happy I lost haha. So not worth breaking someone's foot to win a match at a local comp.
I think I wouldn't break the arm because like you said, its just a competition, that isn't worth it, you have proved your ability to yourself. You don't need to ruin someone's arm just because they are to proud in a competition, also I don't think recognition for having won a match is worth the price of having to break a prideful man's arm and effect his ability to practice the art going forward. Just my opinion
Was at a comp on time and my boi out a lanky guy into an armbar he wouldn’t tap but due to the length of his arms I saw it there and shouted “wrist lock Pablo” he puts it on and the guy taps SOOOO goddamn quickly and the look 👀 of complete and utter contempt on his face after was quite comical
My instructor always says “Tap early, tap often”
Best motto.
*I'm saying this before watching the video.
Personally I've never put a submission on as hard as I possibly could because I acknowledge my opponent has a job and most likely a family. This isn't the UFC or high level Jiu Jitsu, I don't need to win that bad.
It's lost me some comps and I doubt my opponents have the same concerns about me, but I can go home happy knowing I haven't purposely tried to injure someone.
Then you’re in the wrong sport my guy, I get not going hard on your teammates but if you have a submission in a comp do it, it’s on them if they don’t tap
@@bradc8576
No. Everyone has their own takes on this sport, no one way is wrong.
I get great satisfaction out of knowing my opponent didn't get seriously hurt because of my ego. If your ego is that big that you need to snap someone's arm, maybe you're in the wrong sport...
Your attitude is actually very fitting into the mindset of a martial Artist.Its a Sport at the end of the day and humility should not be forgotten.
@@bradc8576 Why do you care so much about your scorecard at the comp? You still know you won, and none of your friends will give a shit whether you went 2-2 or 3-1.
@@jacobday3826 You're shaming someone for doing the thing we all practice doing everyday; breaking someone's limb. The only person who has an ego is the one refusing to tap. Don't be a hypocrite, it's a combat sport. I think you're in the wrong one.
This helps out a lot ,thanks chewy for your infinite wisdom oss 🙏🏻
In the gym you keep slowly applying pressure until you think its about to break and just let it go, move on. In a competition you keep slowly applying pressure until it breaks.
Odds are he’s the type of guy to rip a sub on an opponent without easing into. If he doesn’t have regard for his body, he probably won’t have regard for your either.tough situation, but break his arm if that’s what it takes.
Y'all heard it, Chewy said rip their arms off and take em home as trophies! Just call me Predator!
Id rather lose then actually injure someone.. i dont care enough about winning to actually hurt someone that bad.
Probably shouldn’t be competing then. Just train for fun.
Same man, i get it if youre competing professionally but theres no point me breaking some guys arm just so i can be the hardest blue belt in my area
What? You mean it’s not the worlds greatest honor to be 1st out of 7, in 1 of 6 weight classes, in the 2nd biggest fed, regional open tournament held in the neighborhood rec center 😃.
@@bmcg4977 well when you put it like that ill wrench on everything lol
J J I don’t see why he shouldn’t still compete with his point of view, which is the same as mine. At the end of the day we are still only competing for fun (unless there are competitions with huge prize money for competitors at our low level?). I wouldn’t break someone’s arm just to be able to say I won a tournament and get a $2 medal. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Now if I’m fighting to protect myself or someone else, that’s a different story and I’ll break whatever I need to to do that.
People have a fallacy that jiu jitsu is done 100% in training. False. Restraint in training, restraint in competition.
Reminds me of the Charles Oliveira vs Tony Ferguson fight, Tony never taps, like ever, as a result Charles damn near tore Tony’s arm in half, he was saved only by the horn at the end of the round
The first time my buddy grappled with us when we were like 14-16, he gets caught in an armbar and says the words "I think you're gonna break my arm" because he hadnt watched ufc and when we told him he could tap out he had no idea what we were talking about. Luckily he was rolling with the most skilled of my buddies and we were able to have that laugh without someones arm getting mangled
When I was like 8 some bully kid was pushing me around so we got to the ground and I ended up just lying on him really as he frantically tapped. Had no idea what he was doing and took it as some attempt at slaps so I started smacking him hard as I could
@@quantumblurrr hahahaa fuck man thats gotta be a moment, "damn this kids breakin my wrist i better tap" " damn now hes slappin the shit outta me i shouldnt have tapped"
"It was a good pop" we all felt that
Watching this rn while recovering from an armbar. I am a 0 stripe white belt who was armbarred by a 4 stripe blue belt and he cranked it heavily. No chance to even tap. Still hurts.
I'm sorry, that sucks.
@@graciescottsdale I agree, I feel much better now though. Although now I am recovering from a sprained big Toe from being swept yesterday. Lol.
I would stop but I realize I'm up against those that may not
Not scared to tap but Sometimes may push things further than I should to avoid doing so but good advice to keep in mind as usual.
White belt here, I'm still not experienced enough to know if the guy didn't want to tap or if I'm submission is just not working so that's one of my concerns. I'm a late tapper myself not because I'm stubborn but because I want to know how far I can go trying to escape. Not sure if that's a dangerous behavior and I should review my posture. Thoughts on that?
Only play like this with like higher belts you trust. Some white belt might see you not tap and crank the shit out of it
Hey Chewy; I have a question for you. I have a problem and I believe it really curbs my growth. I am too afraid to hurt someone while rolling; especially with armbars, locks, knee on belly etc. For example I feel like if I snap the arm it's just gone break or otherwise injure the training partner. It is weird because I never had a problem punching people in muay thai sparring; so my problem is not aggression but the bjj submissions being prone to causing injury. I would be really ashamed if I caused someone harm. Have you had a student like me; what would you suggest? (disclaimer: English is not my first language, sorry about the crappy narration)
I have a Competition in December (hopefully) and this is quite helpful information
Look at it this way; what do you expect to happen if you show up to a competition and refuse to tap?
If they don't tap break their shit, protecting yourself also includes tapping. Im not gonna stop throwing head shots because the dude decided he doesnt want to block his head anymore
Keep throwing them headshots you big gangsta gangsta (HEADSHOT)
As a brown belt I broke a black belts arm in competition. It was a belly down armbar, when I felt the arm break (or dislocate probably) I let go instantly. I ended up losing that fight by points. I was really messed up about that. In training I used to do this armbar and always let go before they tapped because it was supertight. That mentality lead to me losing that fight imo. Im still not sure how to fix this, as I dont want to slap on supertight armbars on my training buddies, but I also dont want to lose a fight in the same way again.
I love this video i think this sums it up quite well
Hilarious title for some reason. Such an objectively bizarre question.
This reminds me of the Charles olivera arm bar on tony Ferguson. It was super tight, looked like it was at the breaking point and tony never tapped and made it to the bell
When they don't tap I move to something evil. It's a shoulder lock and a choke at the same time. If you get it fully locked it's like a body triangle but splayed out. You also still have a hand free. That's when I gently let them know their ribs would be dust if need be. It's also inescapable in the sense you either have to be willing to damn near choke yourself out or let your shoulder pop out to get out. If they just try to hold on the gentle taps to the ribs with slaps and the choke point plus pain usually knocks em out fast.
You curl up they get stretched out. Twist and they twist or get choked harder. Depending on the actual tournament if you can throw the ribs punches go ahead. But light slaps usually get them to twitch a bit and it hurts. Also let's you stretch the back out keeping them from getting good breaths in. Even if they tuck the chin you smuther them. Or damn near break their jaw with compressive force. If they bite they lose.
"Leg locks don't work"
-Vinny Magalhaes
lol
Yeah tell that to Ryan Hall lmao
Okay so whenever I would be the one getting submitted. I never pushed it on limbs at all. Tap away. On chokes I push it a little bit more.
As the one who is submitting, I would tell ppl when they’re done. On arm bars I would have the same problem. I pull it about max bend before hurting it. I pull it a little harder and if they don’t let go. I just jump off thinking it’s over
Then they keep going. I think the key is to tell them “you’re done your done. I’m gonna break your arm/ knee/foot/limbs or choke you out “
I had a very similar situation on the 20th at the goodfight competition. I had an armbar locked and my opponent lifted me up and I activated my hips and had it locked. But I could've either snapped his arm or taken a slam. I stoped and rite befor I anything I loosened up and gradually fell and stayed safe but I lost due to he had the advantage somehow. The next fight he got disqualified for slamming someone in an armbar 🤷♂️. What should I have done taken the arm and break it or take the slam and win ?
I am not gonna break anyone's arm on purpose. No low level tournament win is worth it.
Khabib had a setup to arm bar Justin Geithje. Instead of breaking his arm, he put him to sleep because he did not want to break his arm in front of his parents.
Tap, snap, or nap.
if it was a white belt or other low-level belts, I will let go of the arm, as you said, it's not worth it to be harmed, but for me, it's not worth it to harm someone either.
if it was a high level belt, like brown, black, or any Dan level, then I will keep going, my oppononet knows what he's doing, so my concious will be clear if he gets harmed due to his tenacity.
I think the difference between the amateur's and the pros is that you know what you're getting involved in for example you're in there with Sakuraba and he puts the kimura on you know from his reputation that he's not letting go unless a) you either tap or b) he's getting a referee stoppage by ripping your elbow to bits.
Never break someone’s arm but broke someone’s elbow before. Trained with someone at my gym years back. He’s known for not wanting to tap. Have his arm isolated and straight but he’s still flopping like fish refusing to tap. So I hip up, it popped and bent the other way. Didn’t realize it’s actually so easy to break someone’s elbow once it’s straight. He told me he’s fine but didn’t show up for a year. I promise my prof to never do it again, probably in competition but not during training.
That's the same thing. I don't think you did the wrong thing. Some people need to learn the hard way unfortunately.
Isn't the elbow a part of the arm...?
@@jacobday3826 Yes but frankly I wasn’t sure if James means elbow or forearm. There was time my prof was putting so much pressure on my forearm thought it’s gonna break. So I just tapped.
@@yourotherleft
I worry that your professor feels the need to put a submission on that hard. 😅
@@jacobday3826 I did too. Lol.
Great video as always. Question if I get that shirt will it make my guns look that big? Is this a product guarantee?
haha. I wish I could guarantee that! I'd be set for life. Sadly you'll have to hit the weight room. But it's still a nice shirt if you got something to show off.
@@Chewjitsu guess I'll have to buy it and try it out. It'll at least bring me confidence.
This is why I go for chokes more than joint attacks. Passing out is much less painful but (at least in my gym) it's much more demoralizing.
Which is why there should be something in place there are judges there should've been a threshold not encouraging ending someones career and possible life if the limb is never healed right...I have no a hard time respecting jiu jitsu because of this you have to snap because it's a competition mentality.