Why my Overland Camper is NOT A GLADIATOR
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
- You have all been asking, and now it's time to get to the bottom of it!
In this video I go through all the pros and cons of the Wrangler and the Gladiator, run through the build options, how it actually works in the real world, and finally the philosophical reasons for choosing the Wrangler over the Gladiator.
00:00 Introduction
01:06 Wrangler and Gladiator Explained
03:00 Gladiator Pros
04:38 Gladiator Cons
06:30 Gladiator Camper Option #1
09:54 Gladiator Camper Option #2
12:15 Gladiator Camper Option #3
14:30 The Fundamental Question
18:58 Outro
Massive thanks to Phil from @Down2Mob Overland - checkout his work!!
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#Overland #Jeep #JeepCamper - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
By far the most asked question has been "Why Not a Gladiator" - so here it is!
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I think you nailed the explanation, I own a Gladiator and I can really understand why you went with the Wrangler, Specially the rigidity of the frame and all the electronics in the rear of the cabin before the bed. Great build, I saw the twin Jeep to yours and Im excited to see how both projects turn out ! Best of luck !
Great vid! But why not a small to mid sized trailer? Best of both worlds? Get a place where you can relax, and also detach it for real technical trails
@@ethanwong9950 I've discussed the pros and cons of trailers before. Personally, for long term global overlanding I don't think they are a good choice.
th-cam.com/video/GRr8AJYXyu4/w-d-xo.html
I'm a Toyota guy through and through but I can't stop watching this build. Good job!
Hey Dan, as a former African overlander from the 1980’s, I have really enjoyed watching your builds and adventures over the years. With your real world long distance and long term experience you know what works for you and what doesn’t work so well. Your experience shines through when you explain all the options that you have investigated and the reasons why you choose your vehicle and build choices. One thing I really agree with that you have talked about many times over the years is to keep your vehicle drive train as close to factory as you can and to make sure your build isn’t over taxing your vehicle’s ability to carry the load in rough territory. I am curious how much the camper shell weighs before adding any built ins. Most slide-in pop top truck campers still weigh quite a bit, I’m sure your build is somewhat more economical weight-wise.
Thanks for the kind words!
The conversion results in cutting away almost 700lbs of sheetmetal, and the empty camper box weighs quite a lot less than that with composite materials.
So the Jeep with the empty box has a higher payload than when it rolled out of the factory.
Final weight will depend on how elaborate we get on the inside- how much water do we carry, how big the fridge is, etc. etc. We have to keep it reasonable!
Thank you for the video. As one who has been overlanding a similar type / size vehicle as your Wrangler since 2008. We just returned from a great trip in Australia, where we bought a Hi-Top LC Troopy and did 31.000km. I very much agree, that small campers are the way to go. Less fuel consumption, less worries of getting badly stuck, less stress about fitting into tight spots, less general cost to operate. That equals that more people who are not rich, can actually go out on adventure and truly enjoy life.
The only thing is, in a small vehicle or camper - it does ask something special of your relationship with your partner. If you can survive that - you should be able to grow old and grey together.
First off let me say how much I enjoy your channel and analysis! It is very original and valuable. Second, coming from Toyota, you are the person who gave me confidence to try a Jeep. We bought a Wrangler (used JLUR) and the whole family loves it and my children can't stop talking about Jeep things. Third, from someone who has and still does drive a Tundra off road, the longer wheel base will flex - and destroy the bed, the topper, even radiator mounts in the front etc.. Also, I can hear the Wrangler flex with the hard top squeaking, but since there is no damage there I would think your "box" should be just fine. I am really looking forward to more of your content. I am so glad you got another Jeep for the channel!!
If the Gladiator is not for you, it's not for you. But you can cut the Gladiator's rear overhang shorter if you're not going to use the tub. And if you cut the Gladiator's cab from the rear doors like you've done with the Wrangler, even with the shorten rear overhang, you will still have a bigger space to play with for a camper compared to your Wrangler. But you're still going to have the ramp over angle issues.
True but something like the AEV Dualsport lift will go along way to solving that issue. I don’t know how tall his set up will be with the box though and I know that he wants to be able to put it in a shipping container…
If you cut the rear of the tub you can't mount the spare underneath, which is a huge benefit of the Gladiator I forgot to mention.
You also now have a box that is maybe 6 inches longer than the one on the Wrangler, on a more expensive, heavier vehicle that has a worse breakover, and you have to solve all the engineering problems of the frame twist with all the weight and complexity of some mount that can handle it.
Does all that extra effort justify a box that is 6 inches longer?
I don't think so.
@@TheRoadChoseMe The JT wheelbase is about 19" longer than the JLU. So if you cut the rear overhang to the same as the JLU, you would have a 19" longer box, not 6" longer. That being said, the frame twist is a big issue and the JT' has less breakover angle, so maybe still not worth it.
As with all of your comparison videos such as; gas v diesel, Jeep v Land Rover, your arguments just make sense. I rarely see you arguing any type of emotion or loyalty, just plain logic.
Yes, small and manuverable. That's why I went with a 2010 Ford Ranger. Rtt mounted low in line with the roof, fridge in the cab behind the passanger seat, solar panel on the roof, dirt bike on the hitch to explore more technical trails than i would want to take the ranger on. Made my way from Manitoba through ND, SD (the black hills was really cool), NE, OK, TX, NM, AZ, NV, CA, UT, CO, WY, now heading to Oregon and then wander my way to Alaska. My cooking space is outside but im doing what i can with timing the months to avoid crazy bugs, too much hest and super cold. Overland expo seems like it would be in my path, might make it out there. Love your books, excited for the next one.
Down2mob did an awesome job with his gladiator build. Its understandable that you want to do your own thing.
I agree, his build is fantastic, and I'm really happy we can see it in the real world.
I have an oldtimer unimog. And it is pretty small. 5.65Mx2.07M and 3M high (spare tire on top) and my shelter inside is 3.4m x 1.93m and 1.39cm high. Fixed bed for 2 people, a fixed bench, kitchen with induction cooking and running water (130L inside the box). 50L compressor fridge. I have a composting toilet and a diesel heater. So everything I need and everything fixed. So no setup time. And the best thing the side opens over 170cm!
200AH lithium, 340watt solar.
I think for me this is perfect for weekend trips but also for 2 months travel.
Most Unimogs and big trucks are just to high. The chassis is really high but gives you alot of options for storage boxed, diesel tanks etc.
I appreciate this video and you made some good points that I didn’t think of. One of them being the separation of the bed and the cab in a Gladiator and potentially ripping the camper apart from the cab but I don’t think this is that big of a hurdle or mystery. One you mentioned the ATV camper and he actually used in route kit for the frame that extends it to the line closer to a gladiator and he seems to have figured it out also companies like earth Romer, who use F550 truck chassis have a similar set up, so I think strengthening in the frame and providing some Flexibility between the cabin and the camper is a hurdle that can be overcome. But I’m reserving all opinion until I see yours being finished because you have more room in yours than I would’ve expected. Very excited about this build great content.
You are absolutely right that the hurdle can be overcome, I guess I should have mentioned there are a million ways to go about this, and to be honest we're trying to go with the one that means we're out having adventures around the world ASAP.
@@TheRoadChoseMe like I said, the camper on the back of the wrangler is a lot longer than I would’ve expected so I understand not overcoming hurdles if they’re not even necessary. Very exciting to see this finished
While I will never build it, your new jeep camper has gotten my imagination soaring. Owning a LR Discovery that I use for mild off-roading to get to places to sail and kayak, the idea of cutting the back off to give it a proper place to sleep is intriguing. I have used your box as a starting point in drawing it out, but the chances of me ever taking a cutting tool to my beloved Landy are very small.
One other thing about the Gladiator is some have bent frames from towing off-road - increasing the weight behind the rear overhang in a camper box could cause similar stresses!
You are definitely doing the right thing. Bigger is not always better
Well considered. Regarding what happens if you were to bond the "cabin" part of a gladiator with the "bed" part - I'm sure you saw Land Cruiser tour/safari buses all over East Africa. They take the 79, extend the wheelbase, and do all that stuff. To be fair, this is an established thing so they've probably worked out all the kinks by now.
Land Cruisers are pickups?
The 79 series are - google it
I think each and every consideration you took and explained here about the viability of your and Michael’s builds is spot on! Obviously you both did you research on the best possible vehicle for this build and used a set of goal/parameters to pick the best all around vehicle. Great looking build👍🏽
The technical solution to the sway in the chassis in #3, is that you leave 2" gap between the original cab and the new build. Then you close it with 4" rubber gasket, so the back end can follow the movement of the chassis. If I would build either Gladiator or Wrangler, I would always do it that way. Even though Wrangler is built as one solid cab, it looses lot of flexibility with it. But I am still aiming for the new VW Amarok - made in South Africa - perfect for my plans.
The articulated bus uses a very simple similar system, wouldn’t be hard to do with flanges but still get why Dan wants to try this way.
For perspective on the Gladiator - its wheelbase is 137" vs 144" for the AWD Sprinter. Yes, the Jeep is better offroad, but when you look at the cost of modifying the Jeep, you could buy some nice modifications to the Sprinter and have WAY more interior space for not much worse of a breakover angle. Also, the Gladiator is 218" long while the Sprinter is 233", so by the time you add length to the box of your modified Gladiator you're close to the same length.
Again, not saying the AWD Sprinter (or Transit) is a great off-roader, but I think the Gladiator is an awkward in-between where it has some of the downsides of a van without the upsides of the Wrangler. If you really want off-roading, this Wrangler conversion seems like a better option.
I'm building a similar composite box on a 4wd double cab sprinter with the flatbed removed, and while the sprinter has a pretty decent breakover angle and ground clearance after you put the biggest tires you can fit onto it... it is NOT a jeep. By the time you start considering a 144" sprinter VAN, you're dealing with something that's not going on anything you wouldn't drive a caprice on. A 4x4 Iveco Daily (which I don't think exist on that side of the pond, except the one we saw in the background of the mog shot in the video, and I suspect that one wasn't local) would be a couple of steps closer to a gladiator, but still not quite there. Sprinters have awful wheel travel (ramp travel index on mine is like 150, stock wranglers do like 500), IFS, a rear bumper that becomes banana shaped if you take them off road (ask me how I know) and a 4wd system that is not at all comparable. For my personal use case, a gladiator would be overkill as far as offroad ability goes. What I'm trying to say is: the gladiator isn't an awkward in-between, it is way over in the off-road camp while the sprinters are glorified delivery trucks :P
A Gladiator will go 90% of the places a Wrangler will tho after throwing on 35s and a 3 in lift, which you can do for like $8K complete. Add 37s and a regear and it will go 98% of the places. Yeah you might scrape, but if you pay attention to your lines and armor up the oil pan and trans (about $350) it’s not a big deal- everything else important is armored. The rear over hang has steel sliders so only risk is if you are in a situation of putting all of the weight of the veh on the rear overhang. And while it may be longer than a Wrangler, bc it is the same width as a Wrangler this goes a long way towards being able to do a lot of the smaller tighter trails that Wranglers do. Gladiator is def a compromise and like all compromises has its issues. But you get one if you want to legitimately offroad as well. It is truly one of the few vehs that allows you to offroad with the Wranglers yet be way more comfy onroad and have more carrying capacity than Wranglers. And Without doing a massive chop and build and still having a rig you can use as a daily. If that is important then the Gladiator is a good rig to build out. If not, and most of your overlanding will be dirt and gravel roads, then I agree, just get a 4 x 4 van. Or if want to wheel and you dont mind doing a massive job and having a dedicated rig, then Dan’s build is a sweet option.
@@ihmesekoilua you have good points about axle articulation. Ivecos aren't the only vehicle we lack here: the double cab Sprinter isn't an option. I'm guessing at that price North Americans would just get a regular pickup and sell the bed.
Awesome info on your decision making process. Every time i think of wanting to build something new. I think of all the benefits of my Sunrader. Haha
Well said, looking forward to more. Love the photochops 👍
More to come!
Great show and makes good understanding on the gladiator
I absolutely agree with you. With your experience of world travel it carries a lot of weight!
This is an excellent, thorough and accurate assemment of the JLU/JKU vs Gladiator build comparision. Several of the exact points of why we designed and came up with the JTruk cab kit
Another reason you also brushed on top of is that generally speaking parts for a 4 door are probably going to be generally more readily available than a Gladiator even though they do share a lot their components.
Great video as I was wondering why, but based on your previous video's I knew there was a reason. Thanks for doing this! I still think if was to do this would use a gladiator and find away to integrate as many other trucks have done this. Then just make sure to have skids for the breakover angle.
🍻Looking forward to more details on the build. Especially on the structure of the box and its strength and role in preventing or limiting frame twist.
When I saw the heavy surgery being performed on the unlimited I figured the gladiator has to be less extensive but clearly it isn’t. Good info. Thanks for covering.
I'm doing my travels in a VW Vanagon and I wouldn't be able to go where I like to go with anything larger. The wheelbase is just right and at max 7' tall I am quite nimble on the trails. All your reasons make great sense to me. Really enjoying watching this build.
Thank you for the video. As a gladiator owner, I went through the same discussions in my head. I considered the Wrangler with the Ursa Minor top, since it would not detract from everyday use. But ended up getting the gladiator based on utility… now I just need to get around to building my slide in camper 😂😅. I have built and rebuilt 100x in my head 😅.
Fantastic video...I love the in depth explanation of the WHY behind the build.
Glad you liked it! Plenty more to come on the whole build
Love your build! Can’t argue with your reason to do it. I’m using a lot of your thoughts but going with a VW bus as it’s what I know and love. I got it from a couple that drove it from Argentina to Alaska and picked it it when they came back thru the US. Thought it was ready to go but its worn out ! Lol. New transmission in now with limited slip and hope to do smaller adventures as it’s all the time I can muster at this stage in life. Trans American Trail and Alaska are my big goals but will start with small trips to shake down. Trying to keep it light and not over build. Stripped out and will just have a bed in back . I will then camp and add items as I go and need . Not build to max and then take away what I don’t find I need. Cheers and love your video and thoughts on over-landing.
Outstanding!!
Having off-roaded three 4-door Jeeps for a decade, and now a Gladiator for three years, it's safe to say both will eventually rub their underbellies off-road. Rubicons have adequate skids for sliding over dirt mounds and light use on rocks. On my Gladiator I installed an aluminum underbelly skid plate system, which only added 10lbs to the Jeep because of all the steel it replaced. Now I have peace-of-mind to slide over obstacles. Also, the Rubicon Gladiator has steel corner guards and steel rear bumper, which are fine to hit on the ground or rocks. I understand your rig isn't a crawler, so occasionally hitting them won't hurt anything. The Wrangler's spare tire can drag on the ground and sheer off the tire carrier, so both have weaknesses. Honestly, after wheeling both wheelbase for so long, the Gladiator's extra length really hasn't been a hinderance to me. i just know where to add protection and pick better lines. I prefer it for longer distance travel because it's more comfortable to drive, which reduces driver fatigue. But I'm not putting a camper on the back of mine, and I agree with your decision to do this to a Wrangler 100%. The Gladiator flexes a crazy amount and you'd absolutely break something with this configuration. Thanks for sharing!
What a great video! I just subscribed based this video and I can't wait to view the finished product!
Welcome aboard!
@@TheRoadChoseMe Thank you, it's nice and comfy in here.
Well done.
Love what you’re doing. Is your Wrangler a 392?❤ for me…I would cut a Glady in half and do your approach…. The cons outweigh the added living space. But….I’m biased after living in my 144 Sprinter on 35’s. 😊
I’ll keep watching for sure. Seeing everyone’s take on the ultimate vehicle is always exciting.
My Wrangler is a diesel 3.0.. I'll do a video on the pros and cons of that shortly.
Amazing video as always Dan, I'm excited to watch the build 🙂
You and me both!
Thanks for the video and for showing and sharing 😊 Greetings mate and cheers 🍻 from South Africa 🇿🇦
Cheers, you are welcome!
Here are some more detailed specs on the Gladiator JT versus Wrangler JL. Also to mention I have a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon(Max Tow Package) I use regularly in Arizona.
Wrangler JL- 7mm axles tubes
JT - 10mm axle tubes/ thicker suspension bracketry and reinforced frame.
Heavy duty CV joints on JT versus JL
Max Tow Gladiator has larger brakes, heavy duty engine cooling, 240amp alternator. Dana44 wide track axles, 4pin/six pin trailer wiring.
Max Payload Capacity JT -1,600 lbs /JL - 1,360 lbs
Ground Clearance(Stock) JT Rubicon - 11.1'' / JL Wrangler Rubicon10.8"
Max Towing JT - 7,650 lbs / JL - 3,500 lbs
Max Tow Gladiator(3.6L Pentastar) - 22 gallon fuel tank
I put BFG 35'' BFG KO2 35'' tires(Actually 34.50'') tires and no need for regear and weight is almost same as stock Falcon Wildpeak AT3 33'' tires. Have 3.5 In lift(Rough Country) and I am getting 19.5mpg(Liter 73.815) on highway. The max tow rims on stock Gladiator are heavier than the Method 17'' 8.5'' 0mm offset rims I have currently. I am actually lighter with the 35'' Tires/Rims than stock configuration. Have Fishbone mid height bed rack and IKamper RTT. The Jeep Gladiator Rubicon with the 3.6L engine is really reliable setup. Best Jeep I have owned.
I agree! I have a JTR as well and one of the reasons I got it over the Wrangler is that it is a heavier duty vehicle and I needed/wanted the ability to carry the extra weight. One thing that Dan hasn’t addressed yet is the effect of cutting the roll bar off behind the front seats. That bracing provided by the roll cage is now gone and could dramatically affect the rigidity of the frame when off-road…I wish him well.
We have replaced anything we cut with material that is as strong or stronger than what was removed, so the whole box+cab should function just like the original body did
@@TheRoadChoseMe Also to mention the new 2024 Jeep Wrangler refresh gets new HD Dana 44 Full Float rear axle upgrade among other changes to interior. Maybe in future your next vehicle after this build :)
That was an excellent and logical comparison of benefits or caveats of the two vehicles. And that one size doesn't necessarily fit every user's needs. Some rigs do get too big for really rugged trails. Great info
Glad you liked it!
Great Video!
I bought a Wrangler after watching your Africa trip, had it 2 years and drove 45,000 miles around Europe and sold it. It had the 3.6 Pentastar engine which was great but only gave me 17mpg which is super car consumption.
I now have a 4.5 litre V8 Land Cruiser 78 Series and it pisses all over the Wrangler and gives me 26mpg whilst it does it
Incredible, if we could buy those here I'm sure they would be very popular!
@@TheRoadChoseMe Mabye contact Andrew Stiant Perrier White for MPG for the 4.5L V8 78 Series. What about a change in tyre sponsor; Mickey Thompson Baja Boss AT. Would a 295/70r17 be a good tyre size to chose for this particular Brand and tyre model for availability and fitment on a 17x7.5 wheel(how wide of a 295 is it, listed at 12 inch on a 8.5 width rim(could go with a Method 706 Bead Grip) but .2 per .5 wheel width change = 11.6 on a 7.5, but it's not going to be at it's max air pressure so maybe less then 11.6 on a 7.5 vs 11.1(subtract .4 inches, .2×2, two half inch wheel width changes) for a 285/70r17 on a 7.5 width wheel ? Is there room for the extra .25 width on each side of the tyre and the .25 inch that the tyre will extend into the fender well(.5÷2=.25) ?
Just came across your channel , love the attention to detail !
Welcome aboard! - Let me know if you have any questions, or would like me to cover something specifically.
Hi Dan ,Very well put together . Even not knowing these 2 vehicles real well , my first thoughts went to the Gladiator as first choice for a box conversion . But the points you touched on really show the Wrangler is the better choice . Myself my project is a 1981 Dodge Trans-Van 360 V8 , automatic transmission . Lite steel frame inside a fiberglass box on a 1 ton van cutaway chassis . So happy it was gutted when I got it . Theme big open space no clutter , I can sleep across it’s width . Plans V8 to straight 6 swap , 5 speed manual tranny , and a 4WD conversion .It has a rear door , So the footwell for the door will also used for a stowaway shower. . Tunnel down so you can stand up .I might move back to Europe so this is small enough that it won’t be considered a oversized vehicle (I hope) . Safe travels .
I'm a minute in and already wanted to thank you for this one... I truly believe you guys have got to something that makes the most sense - I keep looking at Jeep Comanche's thinking about a similar set-up (because I'm not rolling in cash and figure I can work on the thing to get it tip-top) - Really looking forward to this entire series - Another great video
Oh that is a great idea. Camanche's would be perfect for something like this as long as there is not a lot of bed flex. You could always make a passthrough to allow the flex (think ambulance pass through. But I love the 4.0 and the AW4 is great as well. You should throw up some videos of doing this if you go this route.
As a 87 Cherokee owner, i would look to something with a frame, the unibody on a commanche would take a significant amount of reinforcement to be safe if you put a pass through as the back of the cab is structural. A flatbed and a camper however...
@@bonespur2728 oh, i didn't know it was a unibody - thanks for that
So for the most part I agree. Size becomes a hinderance where you might as well buy just a normal RV because you cant fit into most places anymore. While option 1 is prolly realisticaly would just be canopy camper (gfc alucab etc.) option 3 makes the most sense. While the frame twist is a worry many companies such as earth roamer as well as many cab chassis (earthroamer)offer something similiar. While the camper is ultimately compromised even on a wrangler it wouldn't see some of the hard tracks that the gladiator saw in Australia. Avoiding a super heavy build out (weight location management) and avoiding airbags (good spring setup aev/dobinson/clayton) could potentially work. Tbh the whole reason i went gladiator was because the wrangler lacked significant space improvement over the last vehicle I owned. The alucab canopy camper was my dream setup on the back of my diesel gladiator but now option 3 of camper has really got me thinking its possible.
I think you present a really solid argument here. Having a large but not too large vehicle with a box, if the budget allows, is a really nice option. I saw dozens of really compelling fill size trucks with boxes on the back that aren't as heavy and unwieldy as a Unimog but are still pretty sizeable. I think the problem with that kind of build with all midsize trucks and not just the gladiator is that the vehicle isn't actually big enough for those dimensions and ratios to work. I think that the best option for this size range with a live-in box is going to be a built out van like an Econoline or a Mercedes, an upfitted ambulance (although you start to run into that weight problem with something that big), or a custom box build like you're doing. If you're taking a truck that size as the foundation for a live-in build, there are going to be a lot of challenges that I don't think are worth the trouble.
I think you hit all the main points especially comparing the Gladiator. I was going to mention the AEV build and you beat me to it. Only downside I see to your smaller build is lack of storage for personal items, food, fuel and water. You have done this enough to know what you need vs unused stuff. Another downside is that loose or vibrating items in the camper living area may drive you crazy driving down the road, the AEV builder mentioned that. I think the short wheel base is going to make this very easy to drive off road and in town. Let's not forget how easy it will be to ship.
Can't wait to see how that diesel holds up in developing countries.
Hope they are in a state they can delete all the emissions crap that makes it a turd going uphill
Good video 👏 Thanks for sharing 👍
Very interesting video! I've been overlanding in a wrangler JL 4 door with a RTT and tricked out kitchen since 2018. I've been east to west coast and up some gnarly trails ( you can see in my BC video if you like ). I've been looking for the past 3 years for my next setup. I went through the whole Unimog idea and figured it was way too heavy for the trails I do. Downsized the idea to a E350 with a 4x4 conversion but figured that would be too heavy, too long and top heavy. Now I'm pretty set on a gladiator where I would replace the bed and hard top and bond to the body. You mentioned flex and it is one of my main worries and I'm still working out ways to mitigate that. I'm also looking closely at accuair suspension, reliability is my main concern but the flexibility of auto leveling (for off level camp spots) and being able to lower onto bump stops on demand (so as to fit inside 7' ferry requirements) makes it sooooo interesting. Plan is to start building next year, I guess time will tell if it was an error and I should've went with a wrangler instead. :)
Stoked to see this evolve over the next few weeks. Our next is definitely going to be a short wheelbase 4x4 box van. Reclaim 3ft from the engine bay, plus swivel seats make the cab usable space, too. Give me an 80x80in box with 11ft behind the driver seat and the whole van is less than 20ft long and still fits in a container (Wheels off 😉). Decent approach, departure, and breakover. Plenty of room to live work and play!
There is no doubt a van is clearly the best choice to maximize internal living space! The new vehicle sounds great, where are you taking it?
@@TheRoadChoseMe PanAm, my man! But gotta finish the current van (144 sprinter) and decide we don't like it first.
Thanks for shining light on the downsides of the gladiator I didn't think of. I love this camper and it is my favorite design I've seen, but I still think the Ford E350 Cutaway with a similar composite box pop top has the potential to be a better base. The gas milage is bad, there is no way around that, but other than that I think it's the best option for a habitat like this:
You can have a 10ft long box on a vehicle that can still fit inside a shipping container. Width/height would be practically the same as this design. Approach angle better, same departure, with break over similar to a gladiator. Significantly better payload (over 5000lb before habitat), lots of room in the frame for aux gas (more fuel range despite worse mpg). Low MSRP for the cutaway and many examples of composite boxes mounted to the frame and handling the twist. While it is "custom" suspension, after watching in depth videos of UJoint conversions, it's all off the shelf parts that can easily be purchased from retailers, and I don't think any of the custom fabricated mounts are of concern to be breaking.
The problem I see for my use case of a habitat of this size is that it isn't quite big enough for interior living (of 2 people) in my opinion. You have very, very little space for actual gear: things like camp chairs, backpacking packs, sports equipment, etc. This is why I am waiting for an e350 cutaway with a fuel efficient engine option, which will probably never happen! Excited to see the interior of this build get finished and hear yours (and Michael's) thoughts of how the habitat feels to live in.
How old of an E350 are you buying, and how much does it cost?
Do you want to sink $70k into a base vehicle that old AND THEN spend money on the conversion?
@@TheRoadChoseMe I definitely agree with not sinking lots of money into an old/high mileage vehicle. The cutaway is still being made currently for 2024 model year. MSRP is $36k, + $12k in parts for 4x4 conversion (which is including all suspension) so $48k total, vs a rubicon wrangler for $50k, a gladiator for more, or a base wrangler for ~40k after reasonable options. Not saying it will necessarily be cheaper, but as for a starting point (pre-habitat) the price is pretty similar.
Oh wow, I didn't realize they were doing it on new ones and they were that affordable.
Dan I understand and agree with your decision. You are definitely way more experienced than I on overland travel.
In my case if budget and time wasn't the thing I would like to do a Gladiator similar to what you guys are doing but bob off behind rear axle to Wrangler length so not as much overhang. With box area not extending past rear bumper. The high centing problem would still be a potential problem, but being my Jeeps started with a Comanche then Cherokee(s) to 05 Wrangler Unlimited I'm familiar with that.
Great decision going for the Wrangler - Only other option with your constraints I could think about might be doing something similar on a Toyota J150 platform (FJ/Prado/4Runner) but then there is a lack of diesel option - or if not using a North America available platform a 2 door 70 series pickup. The LC200 would just be too thirsty.
Hey Dan, many thanks for your videos! I have been hoping for exactly what you do since the AEV Outpost was presented!
Is there any chance you upload some footage on how you bond the living box to the driver cab?
I'm editing together that video right now... stay tuned
Another idea you can do is take a four-door wrangler and do what you’ve already done. Though stretch the rear axle out to get the same wheelbase as the gladiator. People usually do this with a two-door wrangler when making a rock crawler. That way you still keep the rigid design of the wranglers frame. Well still getting extra space for a bigger camper.
Excited to see the next video I think this one is going to be a keeper you are not going to want to get rid of this Overlander vehicle
HI Dan, Thank you for your well articulated presentation on your new build, can you ,or do you have a video on buying your first Jeep and what to look for and stay away from.
Hmm, I don't have a video on that, maybe I should do one!
Very interesting show u got going there 👍 looking forward for the next video this what u guys are creating is going to be a massive game changer i recon , me loving it 😊 imagine a landcuiser troopy got longer wheel base and the better ground clearance with this mod and with its diesel motor what a beast That would be , cheers 🍻
Gotta admit, this was my first question as well. I didn't realize the gladiator has such a long wheelbase... when I was deciding what vehicle to build out, I ended up looking at one specific measurement: distance from the end of the cab to the rear axle. That's the distance that determines the size of the box you can put on it. Rear overhang is going to be pretty similar on most vehicles - bigger vehicles can obviously get away with a little bit more, but the big factor is cab-to-axle. The wrangler without the rear seats actually gets a HUGE number, more than what you would get on a double cab full-size pickup, I reckon. I see the "bigger isn't better" argument (but building out a sprinter, who the hell am I to talk), but I didn't even consider the fact that you would have to build an articulated subframe and then integrate that into the gladiator to make it work. That sounds like a nightmare and a half added onto the scenario of actually chopping up the truck to begin with.
Not the choice I would have made but seems to be a well thought out decision for you. Best of luck on your journeys.
Great comparison.
Would like to see the details if the conversion, cost and how they keep the flex from tweaking the box.
One way to cut the amount of twist in the box would be to use 2 body mounts at the front of the body and 1 mount at the center of the rear. That would allow the frame to twist without the body having to twist.
I've been thinking about building a box on the rear of a short cab, short bed full size pickup using this 3 mount system.
Like unimog box
Better still, use a monocoque design and lose the Body on Frame altogether. They are such a pain with their bend, twist and flex.
Absolutely that would be the way, and as you said it's been done on plenty of other vehicles.
I look forward to someone actually doing it on a Gladiator so I can learn from it!
Problem with the 3 mount system is that it raises the floor of the camper a few inches off the frame. So if low profile is a priority it's a no. Prime example is Buckstop's new DIY roamer. Thing is like 13ft high
Really cool!
At 138” wheelbase I think one would be better served with an E series conversion versus a box swap on a Gladiator. Much more useable interior space and what has to be a better rear departure. I think your reasoning for the Wrangler build seems pretty spot on and aesthetically it looks great. Looking forward to seeing it in action and seeing how you engineered around the roll cage. My biggest issue with Wranglers is just how much the roll cage takes up interior room . Having 3 kids now and not having travelled as much in recent years I tell you things get so complicated trying to figure out a good solution to situation. Back in the day, simple living space conversions to 60 and 80 series Land Cruisers and I was happy as a clam. For our family of 5 we settled on a E350 Sportsmobile with the pop top and it’s a pretty dang good all around compromise. I am/was neighbors with Dave’s co owner of AEV and one of the rigs he daily drives is the Wrangler 6 pack prototype AEV built. It was a longer wheelbase Wrangler with 3 rows of seating. I don’t know the exact wheelbase but it looked between a Gladiator and a Wrangler Unlimited but with a short rear overhang. Something like that wound be a pretty awesome platform for a project like yours. I think I heard rumors that Jeep is considering a longer wheelbase Wrangler like that.
It has the wheelbase of the AEV Brute (they built that before Jeep did the Gladiator) .. the wheelbase is within a few mm of the Gladiator. Cool vehicle!
@@TheRoadChoseMe yeah those Brutes were super cool. First gens too. Dave let me drive the prototype crew cab Brute at Expo back in the day, i friggen love those things. AEV was trying to legally import the J8’s for awhile there and that probably would have been your dream rig for a build like this. Thanks for all the great content Dan!
I was trying hard to get one of those J8s, Dave showed me around the one he has.
Rumor has it there are a few getting around Calgary, AB. I have no idea how...
@@TheRoadChoseMe the only one I ever saw in person was the one at that Overland Expo when it was in Amanda, AZ. Dream rig for sure!
I saw a few in Gabon being used by the Police and UN. The guys let me climb all over them - the interior was identical to my 2011 JKUR I had there, and the military guys thought it was great!
forum.aev-conversions.com/forum/all-aev-products/j8-milspec-vehicles/244287-j8-spotted-in-gabon-west-africa
This was a good video! I don’t have the budget to build any of them. If I did and the gladiator was an option, I wouldn’t make the box much longer. Of course the frame would need to be structurally reinforced to not twist. I would make the box stop a little behind the rear tires for that much better departure angle. The front of the box would definitely be molded with the passthrough.
That’s just my opinion, but I have to say the Jeep behind you is amazing! It seems like from your experience that’s the wheelbase you want and it’s cheaper for you to build it the way you enjoy it. That’s a win win!
Do you think you will get hung up with the current departure angle on the Jeep behind you?
I think the vehicle makes perfect sense for your needs. You are just very fortunate that you found Michael to make the idea a reality. It seems when it comes to vehicle size you are saying, "as small as possible, as large as necessary." I look forward to hearing how the space feels once you've got some time living in it.
You said it better than I can!
Great video. Watched it twice to absorb all the info.
Let me know if you have any questions, or anything you want me to expand on in future videos!
After watching your build and your analysis it really boils down to the wheelbase and living space length. These builds only make sense if you chop the aft Jeep section. This leaves you with either a long or short wheelbase. Land Rover made it simple with numbers, Jeep complicated it with names. I don't see a camper Gladiator being able to travel with more than 2 passengers so this is all about on road comfort vs off road capability.
You raise [ several ] good points. Still ;
Provided a fabricator could somehow and seamlessly rigidify the cab & frame, as one ; a chopped-cab Gladiator in 6x6 configuration - all day long, baby.
• Never get stuck
• Increase GVM, BTC, & GCM
• Collect Cool Points by Gazers
• Expand Living Quarters
Acrostically : NICE 👍🏽
Earthroamer XV jp is another good example of a living pod constructed on a jeep
You, ah, might want to read some owner reviews of those things.
One of the overlander build series I watched, I think it was Everlanders with their Ford F550, had the rear box connected to the cab so they made a disconnecting mount at the rear of the frame to still allow chassis twist.
Edit: It wasn't Everlanders, they maintained the separation between cab and box. I'm not sure who it was, I watched the build years ago!
F-550 is a monster compared to a Jeep
Gladiator owner. After watching this video, I've been paying attention to the flex between the cab and the bed.
On paved roads, I can see it twist quite a bit. I'm not sure if it's just how the cab and bed are mounted to the frame or if it's frame twist.
With your current design, I feel it wouldnt work. There's a company called U Joint offroad that builds Ford E series vans, they built a sort of tripod bed mount on their shop rig. Possibly worth looking into on a future build.
Fair enough on wheelbase - you have that first hand experience, and the chassis twist is not something I'd considered.
Generally though I'm a bigger is better - well upto 7.5T maybe excessive after that (currently full time in a 7.5T truck).
Agree with you 100%. How about fitting a thin spare on the bonnet and expanding your living area?
Spare on the bonnet is a tricky one, because you have to re-enforce the bonnet A LOT (it's just aluminium and not very strong). It also is very hard to see over.
How does adding the spare to the bonnet increase the living area? It's not limited in length by the spare on the roof, it's limited by the back of the front doors.
I love this comparison, it’s always surprising how much space like the rear seats end up taking.
What do you think would be a good family overland vehicle for 4 to 5 people?
Thr new Defender 130 is the only 3 row vehicle I think is capable enough.
Hi Dan, are you by chance planning to go at the BCOR
(BC overland rally ) in July with your new ride ?
Thank you for all those amazing adventure:)
Yes, I'll be there for sure!
0:48 shorter wheelbase, more maneuverable, ability to climb out of bed and into driver’s seat & lighter (?)
ETA corrected voice to text mistakes
Hi! This is almost exactly what ive been dreaming of doing to my yj. I don't know if its worth any consideration but im planning on making a large hammock instead of a bed for space and weight.
It will be interesting to see what the layout inside this camper will be
It's all coming over the next weeks and months as the build continues
Dan, not that my opinion matters to you - as in “each to their own” but you’ve convinced me about the gladiator haha this does look like the perfect option.
I wonder though, how much space your gaining and at what cost compared to one of the jeep replacement tops with the integrated tent. I assume this rig will be a pop top so there is some level of canvas involved with either option.
I have to confess though, I am much more excited with this option, if there’s one thing people love, it’s a build video!
Anyway, wish me luck, we leave for the Cape in my Gladiator on Friday - I’ve watched your cape York adventure about 10 times in preparation haha
The interior volume of this new camper will be about 3x the interior volume of my old Jeep with the integrated pop-up. It's a whole new ball game.
Have fun on the cape!
@@TheRoadChoseMe wow, that much! That’s 100% worth it! I was thinking 50% more maybe haha
Awesome, can’t wait to see it develop!
Thanks mate, quietly confident after seeing your Gladiator eat it up!
All the best 👍🏻
Great channel. Love the practicality of your approach. One question - why not just choose a 78/troopy? With pop top.
They don't exist in North America
@@TheRoadChoseMe ah I thought you were in Oz.
I get the whole bed vs cab flex thing. There must be a way to do it though. Chevy was able to figure it out with the Suburban and Ford with the Excursion in the past. They were both based on the full sized trucks which had the separate beds as pick-up trucks, but full bodied on the Burb and Excursion. Perhaps there were extra body or frame stiffeners, or flexy mounting points. Come to think about it, full size body on frame vans are much the same.
For sure it can be done, the question is do we want to spend the time and money to do it, and what if we get it wrong?
With accurate design data and the right software you can determine whether it is likely to work, then you build it and see how it matches up to your digital model and you test it. Without that data and software you either need to build some and test a lot (expensive and not practical for an individual), over build it (heavy and expensive), or take a risk that the body or frame will catastrophically fail in operation.
@k53847 - That is exactly right, and exactly why I'm not doing it!
Depending on how far the chassis goes back on the Gladiator, in theory you could have better weight distribution by keeping the overall length similar to your set up by having less rear overhang. Of course, you are right that someone will need to do a proper analysis of the chassis and potentially reinforce it to prevent it flexing the whole camper section off the cab. Great analysis in this video.
There are two problems with possibly shortening the rear overhang of the Gladiator
1. you can't put the spare underneath anymore (one of the huge benefits of the Gladiator I forgot to mention).
2. Now the box isn't as big as the one I have on the Wrangler.
@@TheRoadChoseMe excellent point. I hadn’t thought of that.
I was surprised to see that the Gladiator is longer than my Toyota T100.
I'm trying to accomplish a lot of the same goals in my camper build without extending the length or width of the vehicle.
A walk through would be greatly appreciated
The box is entirely empty, and we're building mine as we speak. Plenty more videos of the entire build out, including the interior as it happens coming over the next months
The Gladiator van conversion would require some kind of steel roll cage that attaches to the front cabin roll cage to keep it from twisting.
I didn't realize yours was a diesel. YOU WANT SKID PLATES. One of those diesel exhaust components costs about $16,000.00 to replace. No kidding. It's also my understanding that the fine print on the Jeep warranty for a diesel says you can't put anything in front of the grill or you void the engine warranty, because they're so sensitive to overheating (also keep your engine air filter clean!). So be careful with things like a winch or lights sitting on top of a front bumper. You'd definitely want a front bumper where the winch sinks down into it.
Im glad to see the new build . But i thought diesel wasn't great for international travel. ?
It's not ideal, but I'm going to work with it. I'll do a big video on that shortly.
Good job Dan, you should be a teacher, I really like your videos
It is the family profession!
Love the concept, I have a Wrangler JL and would love to get the same kind of build. Can I bring my Jeep to this company ?
These are the first two prototypes being built and they will be evaluated. Then a decision will be made about putting them into production
Looks great, I'd just be hesitant to put the weight of the tire on the roof, is that how it will ultimately be?
Yes, it's the one major feature we're not super happy with, and would likely change in future prototypes.
it's an interesting thing, it barely moves the center of gravity at all.
I'll talk more about why it's there in a future video
Apples to Oranges.. do the exact same thing to the Gladiator. Cut the back seat off and bob the frame. Now you have a longer wheelbase, better departure angle, and higher payload. Apples to Apples mate.
As I said in "option 3" in the video, the very, VERY tricky, expensive and time consuming part there is dealing with how the forward cab and the rear bed next to flex separately. If you bond them together, you may just tear the whole thing in half.
This is great! Did you consider some kind of slideout?
Actually no, never. Too much weight and complexity for what we're doing
Looks like a huge upgrade to an ursaminor and seems to be a perfect vehicle for long time travel. Maybe not that much a daily driver anymore. What is the height? Would it fit in standard garage? Did you already mention the pricetag? How much would the conversion cost if already have the jeep? Bet there will be a huge demand. Good luck and save travels
It has been designed to fit in a standard 20 foot shipping container, so it will be right around 7'5' when done. Mine might wind up a little higher, I'll have to air down to get it into and out of the container.
I completely agree that the chassis twist would be the biggest question, I would not worry about the rear overhang if U were to go through that much modification U would easily just shorten the overhang
But then you can't put the spare underneath, and the living box is now smaller than on the Wrangler!
@@TheRoadChoseMe where is the spear on the wrangler U have to find a new spot anyway and I think from the back of the front seat to the back wheel would still be bigger than the box on a wrangler with it's longer wheelbase
Hello ... great job. Beautiful design. Did you guys consider extending the frame and also adding reinforce it? I think it would be way cheaper then using a gladiator?
It was a consideration, but the variation between the gas V6 and the EcoDiesel behind the rear axle made us not want to do that.
Also we think the camper is big enough as it is.
@@TheRoadChoseMe awesome.. thank you for responding
we had some Humvees in the Military that had the cab cut off to a 2 door which made the Humvee so it turned it into a pick up style with a canvas roof instead of Fiberglass. just an Idea if someone considered cutting up a Jeep Gladiator maybe buy a crashed one from a Junk Yard and then have you 2 door idea with like a 8 or 9 foot bed on it similar to those Humvees
Definitely interesting following along on your build. No criticisms regarding the build, as far as it being what suits you… don’t agree on some of your arguments as others have mentioned, with doing a Gladiator chop and building a fixed camper ie the AEV build and many others out there. I think I would go with something more in line with Down to Mob. He may have a foot less living space, but I think he gains that back by having a full rear seat delete where he can store the fridge and a lot of other items, that would otherwise take up space in the camper. Your Gladiator in Australia was running smaller tyres and didn’t have the increase in ground clearance that an upgraded suspension would provide, so that is an issue that can be solved as far as break over goes. Are you planning on doing any upgrades in that department, or are you keeping it fairly stock? As it is, she’s sitting pretty low. Looking forward to seeing it complete and where you’ll be taking it. Cheers!
The AEV build is a 4 door JK Wrangler, with a frame extension behind the rear axle. It has a stock 4-door Wrangler wheelbase. (I've driven it)
@@TheRoadChoseMe You are right incorrect comparison on my part, but there are builds out there, like earth roamers , where they have removed the truck bed and fixed a camper to the cab. That is what I was referring to 👍 Yes, an expensive build, but doable.
Oh, absolutely I'm sure it's possible.
The question is how much time, money and effort are needed, and after all of that, how much better would it be that what we've done on the Wrangler?
My answer to that is not enough to justify it.
Hi Dan, definitely Wrangler was the right choice, can't wait to see the rest of the build.
Random question, on your "Africa Jeep", I saw you had some vents on the hood and think I heard you mention a mechanical fan at one point, did you have some under bonnet heat issues? If so, did the vents seem to be useful and what vents did you use? If there is an article or video talking about it I would appreciate being pointed in the right direction.
I did add those vents in Mali, yes.
The old 3.8 engine never overheated when running, but it would heat-soak - the gauge would be well over half way if I turned it off and left it parked in the sun then came back to drive it.
I used Daystar hood vents, and I added a mechanical fan and clutch, which was a factory option on the 3.8 wrangler when it was sold in the middle east (Jeep knew it was close to having overheating issues).
There's a few forum threads around with all the part numbers you can order - it just threads directly onto the front of the water pump
@@TheRoadChoseMe great, thanks for the reply and the info...keep doing what your doing 👍
As a guy who unfortunatelly has done no overlanding. But I do own a old Samurai and take it offroading. The Gladiator would never be an option. I havent seen it offroad. But I have seen other pickup trucks dreaming of climbing, where I climb stock for fun. To be fair with you, for me the dream camper would somehow be a 3 door wrangler. Though obviously I do understand it would simply not be big enough. Unfortunatelly.