I landed on a pile of MagCase 2.0s. They didn't get even slightly damaged they're so sturdy! tabletopstronghold.com/v7MKEa ...but my spine shattered into a million pieces ow.
"Your honor my client doesn't paint his models because he actually plays the game" "Is he good at it?" "He over extends and loses" *Gavel sound effect* "Death"
Damn, I just did that while borrowing my dad's Ultramarines. I'm gonna be playing Tyranids & Genestealers next time. Hopefully my 3rd game of 8th edition will go better than the second.
There's a guy at my local game store that will walk around to different games and point at anyone's unpainted minis and go "SHAME!" and point at any painted minis and go "beautiful". It really adds to the experience
Glad to find I'm not alone in this, I'm happy to just get a game these days so won't pressure folks to paint models before fielding. But for me? A cardinal sin I could never commit
@@kimarous ah ok, tbh I thought it was going to be a stupid joke so thought I’d be the one to take it rather than someone else. Have a nice day stranger
I hate painting but love putting stuff together my buddy loves painting but hates putting stuff together. I assemble everything he does all the painting. By our powers combined we are a single functional hobbyist.
I have the opposite problem with a friend of mine. He refuses to play a IRL game until he has a FULLY PAINTED ARMY. Nevermind he is 1.5 years in and he has yet to fully finish a single Necron (they have been primed for a year). He has painted a couple dozen Soritas, but he doesn't want to expand that army. GRRRRRRRRR, the guy is a walking excuse machine.
That's one of the things I've noticed that's a weirdness in the Miniature hobby. Now you can say "oh I don't play the game, I just paint" or "I don't play or paint I just read the lore" but the moment you say "I don't really like painting, I just like playing the game" suddenly people will treat what you've said as if you'd just slapped their Mother. "Oh you're in the wrong hobby if you hate painting!" I like game mechanics and building models, painting is an absolute chore for me. So it's ok to never engage with the game side of a tabletop wargame but it's not ok to only engage with the tabletop wargame side of things...such a weird thing.
As someone with 3 painted armies who has never once put paint to brush (thanks, Den of Imagination, yes shameless plug) I 100% have had this experience. People are mindblown that I have not and likely never will paint my own minis. It's just not what I love about the 40K universe.
But to be fair, you are missing out on most of the spectacle of playing when you only use grey models. I more view it as a sign of respect to my opponent, I want them to see that I made an effort. At least prime them your base colour for goodness sake 😅
if you're not gonna paint the models, why even use models? why not just use tokens then, and if your using tokens a game board would also probably simplify things and make it easier too. and well what you've got is a board game then. If you dont like painting models then this probably isn't the hobby for you. I'm not trying to be mean or demeaning but seriously, board games are probably much more suited for someone who doesn't like painting.
@@Standi thats a perfectly fine stance to have, you don't wanna take the time to learn the skill and that's okay. If you've got the money to pay another person in the hobby to paint them for you, hell yeah! Doesn't matter if you have the sloppiest paint job ever, or the most expensive commission painted army, painted minis are always better than unpainted.
@@DukeExeter oh hey it's the exact scenario I was talking about, how people can be like "oh I don't play, I just listen to lore" and "oh I don't play, I just paint" and that's fine but the moment you go "I just like building the miniatures and playing the game" people get all weird and judgemental about it.
I usually just prime, dry brush and if I have time add a secondary colour, usually on a weapon. Then I'm happy playing with them. I will go back and paint the squads properly. And finally if they perform well in a game I might give them even more detail and some cool elements on their base. The game is cinematic and is played at it's best when it is visually appealing but people are busy and unpainted or half painted models work just the same as any other model.
First, let me get this out of the way, I'm *SO* happy that you're interested in going deeper with AoS and Stormcast. It was the army that made me fall in love with AoS, and I'm glad to see that it's having a similar effect on you too! Now for the actual meat of the videos. I'll admit, I've never had an issue with grey models, so long as their (mostly) built. But I 100% agree that big tournaments and/or narritive events are a fair reason to paint your whole army. But for casual games or even local LGS tournaments, I've never had an issue with grey models(even if it does slightly mess with the immersion of the game). As for your take on "personal graphs", I think that's a really interesting idea. Honestly, if you could make an army randomizer, I'm sure you could make a simple web tool that lets people create their own personal graphs just by giving them titles and numbers. My personal graph at a general level is a (mostly) even balance of gameplay hobby and lore. I started all-in on gameplay, but that has steadily changed over the years, now I lean a bit more on hobby and lore. But that does get more granular when examining different games and/or armies. Key example being Lumineth Realm-Lords. They have a very high rating for gameplay and lore, but hobby is in the toilet for how unpleasant they are to paint.
Yeah the hobby graph thing is a nice visual way of understanding how someone consumes the hobby overall, and yourself going from pure game to exploring other areas is a great example of it! It is always a shame though when gameplay and lore are so high and hobby is so low, like Lumineth for you and GSC for me. Although to be honest, even if I had higher desire for painting GSC I still wouldn't do it lmao.
40k is not a niche hobby anymore, finding someone else to play with that cares about their models is easy. Everyone gets one courtesy game but if you never plan on painting then get ready for your pool of available opponents to drop rapidly
I understand what you are coming from, especially when you know the person and they are just being lazy but I think it's important to remember 40k table top still is a very niche hobby and player counts can vary wildly especially in the states. When you work full time and have people to take care of painting miniatures is not always on your mind which is why I don't judge players with grey miniatures.
@DJ-LAZ If time is an issue they should be using the time playing games with grey miniatures painting instead, a game of 40k lasts as long as a typical painting session
Painting and playing are 2 very different activities. Personally I prefer painting but I view it as a solo activity. Some people just don't like painting and would rather use their limited time playing. But nevertheless you can choose who you play with and if unpainted miniatures are a deal breaker that's your choice. I care much more about the quality of human when gaming, if they are fun and engaging to play with I could give a shit if it's painted.
Great video! Potential counterpoint to the 10VP for Battle Ready models, in a way GW are telling the community it is okay to play with grey models, and potentially could see the 10VP as a way to encourage people to paint their models if they lean more towards the gaming side. I personally probably wouldn't play with grey models because I do enjoy the painting side and probably lean more towards the hobby than gaming, but I would not expect or demand my opponent live up to the same. We want more people in the hobby, and not shouting at people if they don't have painted minis contributes to that.
I've got a buddy who can't really paint much. They have a severe shaking hand that is from some sickness I can't remember, so the way they deal with this is actually pretty clever. He plays space Marines and Eldar, keeps all of them helmeted so no skin is showing that would need painting. He takes his grey models, paints the guns mettalic, then he washes the whole model in nuln oil to just pick out the details of the sculpt and dirty them up a little, make them look proper grimdark. The plops in some eye lenses on helmets, badly, and says that's it. For most troops this is fine. For characters with more details, he paints the larger things that his shaky hand can't mess up as badly too. But it's all super minimalist work, but it does work and there's people at my lgs that I'm pretty sure have yet to catch on that he isn't really painting his models
But he is painting! That. is. still. painting. Even if there is only minimal work, he is still painting. He is showing that he cares enough to still paint his models even DESPITE a physical impairment. That is what really matters, putting in the effort. The actual end result doesn't matter. What's important is the effort expressed to reach that end result. So I absolutely respect your friend greatly for this. It is absolute proof that no one has any excuse as to why they can't paint their models.
Again, to anyone out there, 'you do you' but I can agree that for the "let's get together each week and play" it is not unreasonable to expect some painting progress for everyone participating. Pretending we're all getting into the game together, let's get our forces built and on the table and playing, bare gray plastic, learn the rules, have fun. But by next week, we should all find time to spray with primer and/or the base color (red=blood angels, silver=necrons, etc) and the week after that, perhaps you've picked out metallic weapons or gun casings... I tend to paint from the greatest surface area to the smallest surface area. So on my tyranids: Built. Sanded/textured bases. Spray primer white. 'Steel Legion Brown' on the base texture and rim. (just these two steps gives me joy, momentum and feeling of progress). Light pink wash on the 'underbody'. Purple Armor Carapace. Dark Gray Contrast on hoofs/claws... each week on game night my friends can recognize that my army is getting more and more painted. Also, from an "escalation" perspective, you can focus on batches of your army. I happened to have over 2000 points of tyranids to start, but focused on the Combat Patrol portion of them to get 'mostly painted' and then when we switched to 750 point lists I brought the required models further along the paint journey. This will continue week by week until everything is "done".
Yes, I've seen plenty of posts on Reddit "my first model looks bad" and I always reply, "we all had a 'first model', don't give up, keep painting, keep practicing" And in terms of lore, while there will always be a "right way to paint your faction" in terms of lore, there really isn't any "wrong way to paint your faction" Pretty much any faction has some less/un-documented Chapter or faction-specific subset that isn't exactly in the lore. Whether by accident or genius, that fact that GW focuses on maybe 20 original legions and subsequent space marine chapters yet the lore allows for at least 1000 different chapters, leaves a lot of creative space for hobbyists to do whatever they like. Other factions in the game may not be as deep, but the game universe is large enough that you can argue that your custom background/paint scheme fits just fine.
At my local rtt the general attitude is that unpainted are fine, but you’ll get looks if you keep showing up without making progress. Basically recognizing that people have limited time, but still wanting to encourage people to engage with the hobby side.
I mean, most of the people that say "YoU caN'T PlAY WitH UNpAinTed MoDEls", have their models painted like shit, so I think it's better to have fewer painted models that you actually put effort into, than full army of "I slapped two contrasts on it, it's battle ready". Oh, and not all od people have time to paint like 2533 models to finish one army.
It takes me hours to paint cause I am so heavily detail oriented… not even a great painter, but I still obsess over detailing on my characters. I have an army for nearly every faction in the game.. at my painting speed, even I worked on a few everyday, it would take multiple days worth of hours to finish. I get burned way too fast cause of that.
Or they painted 2000 points of Imperial Fists in 2 months, 3000 points of Krieg in 6 months (one 16 hour session a week), and a few warbands/gangs/Killteams in a few weeks and... They wonder how people can have unpainted minis from 10 years ago.
@@kenupton4084 Cause painting isn’t our passion, some of us actively hate painting and find it stress inducing, and not all of us can paint at the rate you think they can. A 16 hour session a week.. it can take me 4 hours to paint a single character.
paint shaming is always bad I dont care if you're models have the thickest layers and sloppiest brushwork ever. If you put in effort to paint, I will appreciate and respect that. When you put down a horde of grey plastic across the table from me, after I put in the effort to make sure my stuff was painted, is absolutely insulting.
Me and my friend are just getting into it, and we play with grey and half painted minis all the time, we simply have lives outside of the game and hobby. But we both agree that it's really fun and gives us something to look forward to in our pastimes, both painting and playing, and we each consume lore in our own time and share with each other as we learn so our "triangles" are always shifting. Great video.
This is what i thinks about unpainted models. Downside of having unpainted models. - Some time you forget where is your models (especially when Terrain is dark tone) - Identification problem. ( + what type of weapon they have) and its REALLLY get in problem when you and your opponent have same army and the army is unpainted (good luck NOT taking your opponent model to you) - Not looking cool Positive of having painted model + Its simply looks better + NO Identification problem. And if u painted weapons with specific color You simply can faster say what it is. (+ looking back at 2 ed books about Space Marine and Orks you can simply say that they all have different types of weapon and what types of weapons)
7:25 this is partly why i DONT play with unpainted models - if i play a game and realise i don't like how the army works, I'm going to be far less enthused about finishing them off.
I'm one of the people in my gaming group with the most painted models, but I also don't care at all about playing with painted models, whether they are mine or my opponents. The game is the game. The painting is the painting. They're different hobbies that happen to overlap very heavily. I happen to really like painting & getting together for games. That being said, there are a couple of guys in my group that I give a hard time to about never painting, since they're always talking about painting, but rarely show up with any freshly painted models.
I picked up Warhammer in July of this year and was not a very hobby oriented person out the gate, I just wanted to play the game and have fun, over time and with the help of some local players giving me some of their older paints I managed to get most of my grey pile gone. As a newer player if I was forced to paint before play I wouldn't have stayed in the hobby. I love the game side and have recently dipped my toes into the lore and have been quite happy with the outcome of my paint.
I love my army to be painted. when my buddy and i play there is always a grey/primed tide vs a fully painted army. we never use this "10pts for fully painted". but when you are playing, a full grey force does not add to the spectacle as a little bit of paint does. you could even just prime the damn things and it would make a massive difference 👍
Loads of people play these games for the minis. Painted minis specifically. It adds to the experience. Often if one person has painted their army and goes against only gray plastic, they might not be very amused. It detracts from their enjoyment of the hobby. Obviously a sensible person will be reasonable. They can simply choose whether or not to play against the guy with only gray. Many times the gray army is simply a WIP. As long as there is a little progress roughly every time they play some games, that is more than welcome. Painting is time consuming, but I think it should be encouraged.
Honestly, I don't mind unpainted models. I don't even mind proxies so long as its a friendly game and someone is testing out if they really do wanna spend a few hundred bucks putting together something they MIGHT not like!
Yeah I totally agree! I wanna play with my new toys, not spend 20 hours painting to find out I don't have fun with them. I am running a 40k league in my group and the first thing I did was get rid of the 10VP for Painted. Now there is slay the warlord and first strike from 9th. Now people don't have to worry if they're new or if they just got a shiny new toy (although I'll still target the shiny new toy hehe)
Honeslty i feel this. Just starting out it was easy painting tyranids cause its 2 or 3 colors tops. But now as i want to move onto Death Guard I want to have a more detailed paint job but feel burn out as i try to get it to the point id like it. I think getting in a few games with unpainted minis helps you feel more enthusiastic when you paint them up. I was pressuring myself to have my death guard fully painted before I play a game with them, but I just wanna have fun with them in casual games for the time being so screw it! Rally the grey hordes along with the base coat
i started 40k almost 13 years ago, to this date i still know fuck all about the lore, that's not the thing that i care about... when i started i didn't really want to paint, i didn't care about the lore, i just wanted to play, i started with space marines and only painted my them because i was told that they had to be painted if i wanted to use them at the GW store. not long after i started i moved on to orkz and thats where my actual love for the hobby begun, i started buying more and more models, i had hordes of grey boyz and kanz. but something changed as i played more games i started to connect with certain minis and WANTED to paint them. for the most part i need to be excited about minis in order for me to want to paint them, normally ill start building/converting a mini that i think looks cool and will want to get it painted up before its first game. or sometimes im not sure how i feel about a model and it takes a game or two before i feel if its worth my time and effort to paint it. i have zero problems with people playing with grey minis because i know how it feels to not want to paint something, you might not be confident about painting and that kit might not speak to you, the horde of boyz and grots look intimidating, that vehicle that you struggle figuring out where to start. playing games with grey minis can really make you want to add paint, there is nothing worse than forcing yourself to spend hours painting minis only to not enjoy them, hell ive got many models i forced myself to paint up that i have left siting in boxes for years because they just don't mean anything to me. sure on the rare occasion i will pull out some of these minis to play with and ill have a small part of me that thanks past me for painting them, but ill also see that lack of interest in the paint.
Oooooh thank you sooo efing much for this video, I love to paint and customize minis, but I do so in my own time, never rushing it, as I do it in order to relax and have fun, so most of the time I play with lots of unpainted minis, because I just want to have fun playing a cool imaginative (and when possible, narrative) game of warhammer, so I never understood the need to always have everything fully painted, unless you are in a more serious tournment setting btw, my favourite things in warhammer is to create custom stories, chapters, armies, characters and so on, also to play casual 4fun games (yes I go to tournments sometimes, and they are fun, but I never go with the intent of being super competitive, I just want to play fun games at an event) and finally, love your vids, cheers from Brazil
"I like painting I don't play the game" -I sleep "I Like the lore but I don't play the game" -I sleep "I like the game, but not painting" -REAL SHIT Never understood the double standard lmao
people seem to forget that outside of comp play Warhammer is a game of spectacle. The first two reasons you listed only affect the person who participates in them. When I bring my fully painted Sororitas army to a narrative match though and my opponent is fielding his half assembled grey tide its a slap in the face.
The group of friends I play with actively ignore the 10 points for painted. I only ever play with painted minis. Does this feel unfair to me? No, I paint them because I want to. That's a me thing, got nothing to do with playing the game. Great video, have to agree completely. Having said that, taking the piss is still funny.
Wait, you actually put something in the triangle for the Imperial Guard... But, but, YOUR MEME!!! :P For some reason I was half expecting there to be a minor black hole inside that one. For me, I've mellowed out significantly on the whole painted thing. I used to not really care, but get kind of riled up about it... Then I was "THAT GUY" at a bleeping tournament with half my force primed, and half of it bare plastic. Everyone was supportive and encouraging about things, and the tournament organizer even made a playful prize for me, as he knew that I'd bought my last 40 Guardsmen (this was back when they came 20 to a box) just two days before the event because that's when I had the money to get them (as I was forced to use the newer Codex, not the Catachan one), and had spent two evenings getting everything assembled in time (and then got like 5 hours of sleep before the tournament). The prize was a Foundation Paint Starter set. These days? It's a case of "congrats, you got the things put together!" doubly so if it's spiky painful ones like Drukhari (fine, I'll use the new spelling, even though I hate it), and I'd rather be supportive of someone showing up to play, to learn things, and most importantly, start building that personal lore for their plastic army doods. A good chunk of this is thanks to our local Infinity Warcor talking about why his demo game minis weren't painted at the time (he'd gotten the box not that long before, and he has young kids), plus just how worried my husband is about some elements of the community (thanks to a few elitist staffers at our local Games Workshop store - so thankful our favourite staff member is rather chill and relaxed about things!) It's something that especially new players are stupidly worried about, so instead of worrying about the fact it's grey plastic, we should be supporting them in their new hobbies, so they CONTINUE to play the game, and maybe there are reasons they haven't yet - it could be something as simple as they were gifted a box of minis, some basic tools and glue, and don't have paint yet. Or they haven't figured out what brushes they might want, or there's decision paralysis because of the six bajillion paints out there, and how there's so many arguments about "what's the best"... There's just so many factors with things, and it's best to just support where we can.
in my Warhammer group, we have a rule where if you can’t bring so many painted models to the table you have to play down in points. So if I have 2000 points of guardsmen painted and ready to go in a month later, you don’t have no more than 1500 points ready to go you have to play up to my 2000 points. It makes it fun. It makes it this mutually armed destruction kind of feeling when playing the game that there is crunch time that if you’re your army isn’t ready to go you’re not gonna be ready to go into some extent it pushes you to be a better painter also . But if somebody who’s recently finally finally finished off my gray pile of shame, I can understand putting it off lol it is very strange to have nothing to paint. But with that, also I have to say I feel like a lot of people in the community make painting to be way more competitive than it needs to be. I think at the end of the day you only need three different colors on each individual model and I think it gives your army a real luster that a lot of people don’t appreciate that some models just aren’t painted as well as others , in the back of my mind, my oldest guardsman as well as the ones I just finished, but also those first guards have seen way more action than any of my other units have, it really gives them the right to say I’ve seen a lot more than you have I earned these scars.
I think my graph leans most towards hobbying, coming from Gundam, and then the lore. I know next to nothing about the rules outside of a few Auspex Tactics guides
I didn't knew it neither. There is not a signel gaming place nor tournament in my country that requires painting minis. At very best, you can get roughly 10% bonus points in some tournaments or less than 1% (depending on scoring system) in others, but the difference is pretty much meaningles for mostmatches.
I always love the "childhood nostalgia, definitely not belonging to any sort of copyright obsessed company" music, especially from Italian Racing Game And "Beautiful Woman who beat the crap out of me many times as a child and confused and fascinated me for the rest of my life and I can never rid myself of the memory or fixation of her" from Pet Adventure Game
Bringing grey models is a huge motivator for getting them painted after the game for me. There is also assembled models can be played with when they're assembled painted models only add to the "cool" factor. No need to rush a paintjob or slog through painting 40 of the same dude. I like to spend my time on other things besides painting too.
The funniest thing is, every store I went to always made it clear they do not care if your models are unpainted. It's only an internet opinion from my experience.
And that’s where they’ve failed you my sweet summer pail. Stop buying more models from those nasty stores whose goal is to sell more models, and be content to paint the ones you already have. They’ve played you and it’s okay, but don’t let them get the best of you. You’re better and wiser now.
@richardmartin6069 bruh I think it took me 4 months before I bought a mini from them, and I get half of my miniatures from 3d printers anyway. I litteraly told the owner "I want to do a Tzeentch spawn conversion but with non-GW models because they're too expensive, do you have something in mind?" and he helped me out. We took 20min to search through the store even though I ended up not taking anything at the end (it turns out very few minis are being made with avian features). Not everybody is a compulsive buyer, and not every shopowner is a greedy goblin.
Honestly, I detest elitism in the hobby... and gw seems to have encouraged that kind of snobbery in recent years. I once had a prominent member of the conversion community tell me I spoiled his immersion because I never showed painted minis on my posts. The irony is, he turns up to events with unpainted, unfinished and sometimes proxy models. Yeah, he got blocked 😏
I often play with new models the first couple of times before their paintjob is finished. Be it grey, primed, or just basecoats, playing with them is what motivates me to finish them.
I personally wait a few games before painting so I can give specific models that do really cool and badass things a unique paint job. Like my engineseer who single handily took on a deathleaper or my sicarian infiltrator that dodged my buddies entire shooting phase. Now I’ve started my Aeldari army and I am going to wait until after the crusade to paint them so I can show the story of the crusade in their paint jobs
Plain and simple: You paid for it, you glued it together - It's your property so you can do whatever you want with it. No matter whether gray or in color.
Guy that runs the local tournament scene knows me to have my army about half painted and constantly asks if I have it battle ready. I ended up playing him in an out of town tournament where I lost to him by 2 points. I will have this held over me forever at the local scene until I have a painted army 😂😭
I also have unpainted models. Most of mine have some kind of primer on them, but they haven’t been painted. My reasoning is because I don’t know what paint scheme I want to use, or I don’t have the colours I want to use. I’ve always had the colours to paint my space marines, but I want to actually become good at painting before I give them a shot.
I’m quite new to this hobby, paid for my fist combatpatroll in mai 2024 and played my fist game of 1000p in Oktober. I don’t like to play with or against gray models but on my fist 10 games 8 games wars against unpainted armes. It’s look not so nice and because all the models are new to me they are all gray blobs to me.
Good video. But the only problem with this, and the main reason why I would advice against it is - some models are very hard to paint fully assembled. These days I paint most of my models in subassembly, basically every part that would be hard to paint fully assembled I paint separately and only after that it goes on to the model. Things like capes, drapes, sometimes hands holding a weapon close to the body etc. Especially things that are noticeable at first glance. But with that said, nothing is stopping people from using proxies for such models.
I did win a game in our local escalation league only because my models were painted and my opponent' weren't, and I hated it. I started in a spearhead group with my painted nighthaunt, but switched to my still unpainted orks to avoid having two people with nighthaunt. Also, I was restocking my shelves when I started hearing the cards being opened. That felt like more of an attack than my tendency to avoid playing with unpainted minis.
Im pretty sure most people don't mind the odd unit being grey, people understand that time is limited and you might not have everything ready for a battle. What people don't like is cutting through a sea of grey. But I also don't mind using first born as primaris so long as the base is right. Just makes for 'small' devestators squad for the melta guys.
You convinced me, after almost a year of painting just a couple of miniatures for a T’au army because of lack of time (and having a lot of box not open because I initially wanted to finish a unit before assemble a new one) and never played a game of W40k. Now I will focus more on finish to assemble 500-1000 points of my army, find a place to play with where grey miniatures are tolerated and sometime painting them.☺
Got my friend into 40k. I offered to paint his army for free because i love painting so much. (Not because i despise grey minis on table top...not at all...(I'm half joking idc if you play with grey minis but its just very boring))
For me, for the longest time I was "if it isn't painted I can't put it on the table" after having a really bad experience against an unpainted army. Growing up, I think my general rule now is to just show that you're putting effort into the army. As in you're investing in the miniatures for the long run, as opposed to chasing the latest cheese meta with gray models that'll probably get discarded as soon as the next Eldar codex drops.
My friends and I play with grey all the time, it's not that anyone is lazy, we just want to play with our newly built mini's asap. They get painted eventually but we would rather play a game than not have to wait or everything to be painted
It's pretty clear that the rule is there for GW to sell more mini paints and supplies. I do not know of any group that actually follows that outside of GW stores and one local group that so desperately wants to be a GW subsidiary that they don't even allow legends units or non-matched play in their clubhouse.
My main hobby store group ignores the painting points and rules. Having fully painted is awesome but all of us work so having unpainted models is just a factor. So long as you continue to work on it as you go it’s cool.
How would I even make a graph? I love to paint and I try my hardest to paint well to the point where it takes me 6 hours to paint one Battle Sister. I collect Orks, Sisters, Thousand Sons and as a side project, Raven Guard (soon to be turned in to Space Wolfs). I have no time to paint 6 hours for each model. Painting is the reason I started the hobby, but I can't muster the enrgy to paint every day or even every month. I like the lore a lot and my will to play comes and goes. Sometimes I want to play multiple times each week and sometimes don't want to play at all. So in short, my triangle is having a rave.
I generally agree that grey tide is acceptable, but I'm also a big proponent of "Prime your minis at least" A couple hours and a couple cans of matte black spray paint do a lot for an army.
As a genestealer player and an adult, whose only recently got to 2000 points, if I had to paint all my army before playing, then by the time I finished painting the game rules will have changed enough to invalidate my army (this has already happened once after the deletion of 25% astra militarum, RIP my chaos rogal dorn 😢)
Hobbyist here, Love seeing a model buying it and either keeping it un touched or painting it. Hell I’ve recently got into buying Recasts this year due them being cheaper and having OOP/exclusive models I missed to get officially. Though I keep hearing ppl talking about unpainted armies being bad from time to time and out of spite I want to buy/paint an Army to look like they’re off the Sprue. Like Black primer, dark grey then grey with white areas finished with a Gloss varnish.
I found myself getting into lore and wanted to get into painting and the game. Been using gambling profits to buy up a 1000 point chaos undivided army because my brother got me the starting set this year. But I’d love to one day find an Ikit claw on a doom wheel model and paint that. Practice with the army and then go to a model that’ll take some time but looks nice enough that I’ll be proud of it.
Here's a reason why unpainted gray is cool. Dusk Raiders and Revenant Legion were both (mostly) unpainted grey. They're still some of the coolest pre-Primarch legions.
I don't mind playing against unpainted models. However...when that same person is rocking up week after week with the same models not painted or even progressed, that kind of frustrates me as an opponent. I get its their hobby and they don't have to paint it but it certainly takes the immersion out of it for me. At least work on your minis, don't just rock up week after week playing with the same unpainted minis! My club hosted a small 1000pts narrative crusade and seeing grey minis in that just totally killed it for me. That's just my 10p into the conversation :)
Painting is just a very different experience for everyone, some struggle with it, some love it but just need a lot of time, for some its a breeze, some are very experienced, some are beginners... i fall somewhere in the: i really like it, but i take a lot of time... so i wouldnt be able to play the games every bc i just take to long to finish my projects, and like you said: playing the games and getting inspired by friends and situations can make you want ro paint more -- so yes, i like your take on this topic :)
Me and my friends don't play with the 10pts rules for painted army. We find it dumb and shouldn't even be a thing lmao. (totally not because one of my friend plays tyranids and got so many of 'em it would take him years to finish them)
One way to possibly mitigate the whole "Ew, unpainted army" reactions is to at least prime/base coat the mini so there's at least SOME paint on it. Plus doing a prime/base coat is fairly simple to do, just spray the whole thing in mono-colour
I mean i play heresy so if you rock up with unpainted models I'm not going to play you because it's in the rules that you have to play with a painted army.
just give it a quick zenithal prime so you can see the details on the thing. two cans of spray paint and like 10-20 minutes of work time depending on how many models.
I landed on a pile of MagCase 2.0s. They didn't get even slightly damaged they're so sturdy! tabletopstronghold.com/v7MKEa
...but my spine shattered into a million pieces ow.
Be sure to use an epoxy if you want to to stick magnets to your bases.
Really useful boxes are pretty strong also.
I have a rule where unpainted models have a permanent -1 to hit enemy's
They're called GRAY Knights dude, they're battle ready.
Excuse me they're actually called GREY knights
@@PaulIsBadAtStuff Oh im sorry I don't have time to proof read my 8 word comment.
Smh my head using the non-UK spelling of grey. Absolutely heinous crime!
@@PaulIsBadAtStuff gray, grey.
THEY WORK!
My dumbass saw it as GAY Knights.........
For my basement casual games, I only allow models that won a Golden Demon.
Valid.
"Your honor my client doesn't paint his models because he actually plays the game"
"Is he good at it?"
"He over extends and loses"
*Gavel sound effect*
"Death"
"Your honour, in my defense I'm very stupid"
Damn, I just did that while borrowing my dad's Ultramarines. I'm gonna be playing Tyranids & Genestealers next time. Hopefully my 3rd game of 8th edition will go better than the second.
@@PaulIsBadAtStuffA plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty!
There's a guy at my local game store that will walk around to different games and point at anyone's unpainted minis and go "SHAME!" and point at any painted minis and go "beautiful". It really adds to the experience
A man of honour I see
Maybe get him a bell, like Septa Unella from Game of Thrones; make the shame official.
Stage 1: Denial
I like this stage. I'll stay here
Look the denial stage is nice and comfortable we have cake and pizza
But I want my 10 extra VP. I don't feel like parting with it, its mine, I earned it, it belongs to ME!
Get your sisters outta here 😂
There's no need to get angry.
@@shadowhunter509*clutches fully painted minis*
YOU WANT THEM FOR YOURSELF!
Yeah that 10 point rule is fucking stupid. Which is why I don't know anyone who actually enforces it.
"Won't play while it's grey" is a standard I hold to myself alone, not others. Real mind goblin, that one.
Glad to find I'm not alone in this, I'm happy to just get a game these days so won't pressure folks to paint models before fielding. But for me? A cardinal sin I could never commit
that motivates us to paint, If I really want to use a miniature I HAVE to paint it
(To take the possible fall before anyone else) Whats a mind goblin?
@@The_real_killer_queen It's an umbrella term for strange persistent thoughts and compulsions of unclear origin.
@@kimarous ah ok, tbh I thought it was going to be a stupid joke so thought I’d be the one to take it rather than someone else. Have a nice day stranger
10 minutes of Paul coping about not painting his models
I was high on copium making this video I honestly don't know what happened
Good video. Incorrect, but good. And correct. It's complicated
I hate painting but love putting stuff together my buddy loves painting but hates putting stuff together. I assemble everything he does all the painting. By our powers combined we are a single functional hobbyist.
I beg to differ, you make two fully functional hobbyist; but as time-share.
I have the opposite problem with a friend of mine. He refuses to play a IRL game until he has a FULLY PAINTED ARMY. Nevermind he is 1.5 years in and he has yet to fully finish a single Necron (they have been primed for a year). He has painted a couple dozen Soritas, but he doesn't want to expand that army. GRRRRRRRRR, the guy is a walking excuse machine.
Maybe this is his way of telling you he doesn't want to play 40k without hurting your feeling?
You could also just not buy any models and save 53378522 dollars.
Yes but how will I satisfy my need for instant gratification without buying models I'll never build?
I think u missed a few zeros xD
That's one of the things I've noticed that's a weirdness in the Miniature hobby. Now you can say "oh I don't play the game, I just paint" or "I don't play or paint I just read the lore" but the moment you say "I don't really like painting, I just like playing the game" suddenly people will treat what you've said as if you'd just slapped their Mother. "Oh you're in the wrong hobby if you hate painting!" I like game mechanics and building models, painting is an absolute chore for me.
So it's ok to never engage with the game side of a tabletop wargame but it's not ok to only engage with the tabletop wargame side of things...such a weird thing.
As someone with 3 painted armies who has never once put paint to brush (thanks, Den of Imagination, yes shameless plug) I 100% have had this experience. People are mindblown that I have not and likely never will paint my own minis. It's just not what I love about the 40K universe.
But to be fair, you are missing out on most of the spectacle of playing when you only use grey models. I more view it as a sign of respect to my opponent, I want them to see that I made an effort. At least prime them your base colour for goodness sake 😅
if you're not gonna paint the models, why even use models? why not just use tokens then, and if your using tokens a game board would also probably simplify things and make it easier too.
and well what you've got is a board game then. If you dont like painting models then this probably isn't the hobby for you. I'm not trying to be mean or demeaning but seriously, board games are probably much more suited for someone who doesn't like painting.
@@Standi thats a perfectly fine stance to have, you don't wanna take the time to learn the skill and that's okay. If you've got the money to pay another person in the hobby to paint them for you, hell yeah! Doesn't matter if you have the sloppiest paint job ever, or the most expensive commission painted army, painted minis are always better than unpainted.
@@DukeExeter oh hey it's the exact scenario I was talking about, how people can be like "oh I don't play, I just listen to lore" and "oh I don't play, I just paint" and that's fine but the moment you go "I just like building the miniatures and playing the game" people get all weird and judgemental about it.
Never ask
A women: her age
A man: his salary
A GSC player: how many unpainted models
First stage : Denial
I usually just prime, dry brush and if I have time add a secondary colour, usually on a weapon. Then I'm happy playing with them. I will go back and paint the squads properly. And finally if they perform well in a game I might give them even more detail and some cool elements on their base.
The game is cinematic and is played at it's best when it is visually appealing but people are busy and unpainted or half painted models work just the same as any other model.
This! It takes minimal skill and time and even that small bit of effort makes them so much better.
First, let me get this out of the way, I'm *SO* happy that you're interested in going deeper with AoS and Stormcast. It was the army that made me fall in love with AoS, and I'm glad to see that it's having a similar effect on you too!
Now for the actual meat of the videos. I'll admit, I've never had an issue with grey models, so long as their (mostly) built. But I 100% agree that big tournaments and/or narritive events are a fair reason to paint your whole army. But for casual games or even local LGS tournaments, I've never had an issue with grey models(even if it does slightly mess with the immersion of the game).
As for your take on "personal graphs", I think that's a really interesting idea. Honestly, if you could make an army randomizer, I'm sure you could make a simple web tool that lets people create their own personal graphs just by giving them titles and numbers.
My personal graph at a general level is a (mostly) even balance of gameplay hobby and lore. I started all-in on gameplay, but that has steadily changed over the years, now I lean a bit more on hobby and lore. But that does get more granular when examining different games and/or armies. Key example being Lumineth Realm-Lords. They have a very high rating for gameplay and lore, but hobby is in the toilet for how unpleasant they are to paint.
Yeah the hobby graph thing is a nice visual way of understanding how someone consumes the hobby overall, and yourself going from pure game to exploring other areas is a great example of it! It is always a shame though when gameplay and lore are so high and hobby is so low, like Lumineth for you and GSC for me. Although to be honest, even if I had higher desire for painting GSC I still wouldn't do it lmao.
I don't understand people who actually get mad about unpainted models, just be happy you have another person to enjoy the hobby with.
40k is not a niche hobby anymore, finding someone else to play with that cares about their models is easy. Everyone gets one courtesy game but if you never plan on painting then get ready for your pool of available opponents to drop rapidly
I understand what you are coming from, especially when you know the person and they are just being lazy but I think it's important to remember 40k table top still is a very niche hobby and player counts can vary wildly especially in the states. When you work full time and have people to take care of painting miniatures is not always on your mind which is why I don't judge players with grey miniatures.
@DJ-LAZ If time is an issue they should be using the time playing games with grey miniatures painting instead, a game of 40k lasts as long as a typical painting session
Painting and playing are 2 very different activities. Personally I prefer painting but I view it as a solo activity. Some people just don't like painting and would rather use their limited time playing. But nevertheless you can choose who you play with and if unpainted miniatures are a deal breaker that's your choice. I care much more about the quality of human when gaming, if they are fun and engaging to play with I could give a shit if it's painted.
Reading that I think its probably harder to find anyone with painted minis that showered this year.
Actually no, it’s not okay. Dark Angel interrogators are en route to your location. Good luck.
Great video! Potential counterpoint to the 10VP for Battle Ready models, in a way GW are telling the community it is okay to play with grey models, and potentially could see the 10VP as a way to encourage people to paint their models if they lean more towards the gaming side. I personally probably wouldn't play with grey models because I do enjoy the painting side and probably lean more towards the hobby than gaming, but I would not expect or demand my opponent live up to the same. We want more people in the hobby, and not shouting at people if they don't have painted minis contributes to that.
That's a fair point on the 10 VP. To be fair, there's plenty of other issues with combat Patrol lmao
I've got a buddy who can't really paint much. They have a severe shaking hand that is from some sickness I can't remember, so the way they deal with this is actually pretty clever. He plays space Marines and Eldar, keeps all of them helmeted so no skin is showing that would need painting. He takes his grey models, paints the guns mettalic, then he washes the whole model in nuln oil to just pick out the details of the sculpt and dirty them up a little, make them look proper grimdark. The plops in some eye lenses on helmets, badly, and says that's it. For most troops this is fine. For characters with more details, he paints the larger things that his shaky hand can't mess up as badly too. But it's all super minimalist work, but it does work and there's people at my lgs that I'm pretty sure have yet to catch on that he isn't really painting his models
But he is painting!
That. is. still. painting.
Even if there is only minimal work, he is still painting. He is showing that he cares enough to still paint his models even DESPITE a physical impairment.
That is what really matters, putting in the effort. The actual end result doesn't matter. What's important is the effort expressed to reach that end result. So I absolutely respect your friend greatly for this. It is absolute proof that no one has any excuse as to why they can't paint their models.
Again, to anyone out there, 'you do you' but I can agree that for the "let's get together each week and play" it is not unreasonable to expect some painting progress for everyone participating. Pretending we're all getting into the game together, let's get our forces built and on the table and playing, bare gray plastic, learn the rules, have fun.
But by next week, we should all find time to spray with primer and/or the base color (red=blood angels, silver=necrons, etc) and the week after that, perhaps you've picked out metallic weapons or gun casings...
I tend to paint from the greatest surface area to the smallest surface area. So on my tyranids: Built. Sanded/textured bases. Spray primer white. 'Steel Legion Brown' on the base texture and rim. (just these two steps gives me joy, momentum and feeling of progress). Light pink wash on the 'underbody'. Purple Armor Carapace. Dark Gray Contrast on hoofs/claws... each week on game night my friends can recognize that my army is getting more and more painted. Also, from an "escalation" perspective, you can focus on batches of your army. I happened to have over 2000 points of tyranids to start, but focused on the Combat Patrol portion of them to get 'mostly painted' and then when we switched to 750 point lists I brought the required models further along the paint journey. This will continue week by week until everything is "done".
Yes, I've seen plenty of posts on Reddit "my first model looks bad" and I always reply, "we all had a 'first model', don't give up, keep painting, keep practicing"
And in terms of lore, while there will always be a "right way to paint your faction" in terms of lore, there really isn't any "wrong way to paint your faction" Pretty much any faction has some less/un-documented Chapter or faction-specific subset that isn't exactly in the lore. Whether by accident or genius, that fact that GW focuses on maybe 20 original legions and subsequent space marine chapters yet the lore allows for at least 1000 different chapters, leaves a lot of creative space for hobbyists to do whatever they like. Other factions in the game may not be as deep, but the game universe is large enough that you can argue that your custom background/paint scheme fits just fine.
At my local rtt the general attitude is that unpainted are fine, but you’ll get looks if you keep showing up without making progress.
Basically recognizing that people have limited time, but still wanting to encourage people to engage with the hobby side.
I mean, most of the people that say "YoU caN'T PlAY WitH UNpAinTed MoDEls", have their models painted like shit, so I think it's better to have fewer painted models that you actually put effort into, than full army of "I slapped two contrasts on it, it's battle ready". Oh, and not all od people have time to paint like 2533 models to finish one army.
It takes me hours to paint cause I am so heavily detail oriented… not even a great painter, but I still obsess over detailing on my characters. I have an army for nearly every faction in the game.. at my painting speed, even I worked on a few everyday, it would take multiple days worth of hours to finish. I get burned way too fast cause of that.
Or they painted 2000 points of Imperial Fists in 2 months, 3000 points of Krieg in 6 months (one 16 hour session a week), and a few warbands/gangs/Killteams in a few weeks and...
They wonder how people can have unpainted minis from 10 years ago.
@@kenupton4084 Cause painting isn’t our passion, some of us actively hate painting and find it stress inducing, and not all of us can paint at the rate you think they can. A 16 hour session a week.. it can take me 4 hours to paint a single character.
paint shaming is always bad
I dont care if you're models have the thickest layers and sloppiest brushwork ever. If you put in effort to paint, I will appreciate and respect that.
When you put down a horde of grey plastic across the table from me, after I put in the effort to make sure my stuff was painted, is absolutely insulting.
Me and my friend are just getting into it, and we play with grey and half painted minis all the time, we simply have lives outside of the game and hobby. But we both agree that it's really fun and gives us something to look forward to in our pastimes, both painting and playing, and we each consume lore in our own time and share with each other as we learn so our "triangles" are always shifting. Great video.
"What do you mean, I don't get 10 points for having a fully painted army?! This is a fully paint Grey PRIMEaris army!
This is what i thinks about unpainted models.
Downside of having unpainted models.
- Some time you forget where is your models (especially when Terrain is dark tone)
- Identification problem. ( + what type of weapon they have)
and its REALLLY get in problem when you and your opponent have same army and the army is unpainted (good luck NOT taking your opponent model to you)
- Not looking cool
Positive of having painted model
+ Its simply looks better
+ NO Identification problem.
And if u painted weapons with specific color You simply can faster say what it is. (+ looking back at 2 ed books about Space Marine and Orks you can simply say that they all have different types of weapon and what types of weapons)
The fact that I recognized all the profile pics when you were talking about Loretubers, you know what my graph looks like based off that.
1:18 the techmarine looks really good Paul, keep up the great work!
It is the best thing on this channel. Paul must be really proud of it.
Paul: "Unpainted minis are absolutely okay"
TH-cam comments: "Where's my Power Chair"
I'm so glad you're getting sponsors. You've made it as a youtuber!
7:25 this is partly why i DONT play with unpainted models - if i play a game and realise i don't like how the army works, I'm going to be far less enthused about finishing them off.
I'm one of the people in my gaming group with the most painted models, but I also don't care at all about playing with painted models, whether they are mine or my opponents. The game is the game. The painting is the painting. They're different hobbies that happen to overlap very heavily. I happen to really like painting & getting together for games.
That being said, there are a couple of guys in my group that I give a hard time to about never painting, since they're always talking about painting, but rarely show up with any freshly painted models.
I picked up Warhammer in July of this year and was not a very hobby oriented person out the gate, I just wanted to play the game and have fun, over time and with the help of some local players giving me some of their older paints I managed to get most of my grey pile gone. As a newer player if I was forced to paint before play I wouldn't have stayed in the hobby. I love the game side and have recently dipped my toes into the lore and have been quite happy with the outcome of my paint.
I love my army to be painted. when my buddy and i play there is always a grey/primed tide vs a fully painted army. we never use this "10pts for fully painted". but when you are playing, a full grey force does not add to the spectacle as a little bit of paint does. you could even just prime the damn things and it would make a massive difference 👍
Great use of the word defenestrate! Most people don't even know it exists
Loads of people play these games for the minis. Painted minis specifically. It adds to the experience.
Often if one person has painted their army and goes against only gray plastic, they might not be very amused. It detracts from their enjoyment of the hobby.
Obviously a sensible person will be reasonable. They can simply choose whether or not to play against the guy with only gray. Many times the gray army is simply a WIP. As long as there is a little progress roughly every time they play some games, that is more than welcome.
Painting is time consuming, but I think it should be encouraged.
I suppose it's pretty easy to not use unpainted minis when I can just borrow an army from my dad.
I didn’t finish painting my first army for 2 years after playing the game, I never would have either if I didn’t fall in love with the blood angels
Honestly, I don't mind unpainted models. I don't even mind proxies so long as its a friendly game and someone is testing out if they really do wanna spend a few hundred bucks putting together something they MIGHT not like!
Lore and homebrew did make me get a new army to work on and you will hate me for this, but it is guard. I just lioke my wall of guns with flashlights
Yeah I totally agree! I wanna play with my new toys, not spend 20 hours painting to find out I don't have fun with them. I am running a 40k league in my group and the first thing I did was get rid of the 10VP for Painted. Now there is slay the warlord and first strike from 9th. Now people don't have to worry if they're new or if they just got a shiny new toy (although I'll still target the shiny new toy hehe)
Honeslty i feel this. Just starting out it was easy painting tyranids cause its 2 or 3 colors tops. But now as i want to move onto Death Guard I want to have a more detailed paint job but feel burn out as i try to get it to the point id like it. I think getting in a few games with unpainted minis helps you feel more enthusiastic when you paint them up. I was pressuring myself to have my death guard fully painted before I play a game with them, but I just wanna have fun with them in casual games for the time being so screw it! Rally the grey hordes along with the base coat
Easy solution.... the greybrick marines
i started 40k almost 13 years ago, to this date i still know fuck all about the lore, that's not the thing that i care about...
when i started i didn't really want to paint, i didn't care about the lore, i just wanted to play,
i started with space marines and only painted my them because i was told that they had to be painted if i wanted to use them at the GW store. not long after i started i moved on to orkz and thats where my actual love for the hobby begun, i started buying more and more models, i had hordes of grey boyz and kanz. but something changed as i played more games i started to connect with certain minis and WANTED to paint them. for the most part i need to be excited about minis in order for me to want to paint them, normally ill start building/converting a mini that i think looks cool and will want to get it painted up before its first game. or sometimes im not sure how i feel about a model and it takes a game or two before i feel if its worth my time and effort to paint it.
i have zero problems with people playing with grey minis because i know how it feels to not want to paint something, you might not be confident about painting and that kit might not speak to you, the horde of boyz and grots look intimidating, that vehicle that you struggle figuring out where to start. playing games with grey minis can really make you want to add paint, there is nothing worse than forcing yourself to spend hours painting minis only to not enjoy them,
hell ive got many models i forced myself to paint up that i have left siting in boxes for years because they just don't mean anything to me. sure on the rare occasion i will pull out some of these minis to play with and ill have a small part of me that thanks past me for painting them, but ill also see that lack of interest in the paint.
Ah, I love the Grey Phantoms chapter. Supplementing into every space marine army, best chapter
As the hive mind with many grey bugs I approve this message
Oooooh thank you sooo efing much for this video, I love to paint and customize minis, but I do so in my own time, never rushing it, as I do it in order to relax and have fun, so most of the time I play with lots of unpainted minis, because I just want to have fun playing a cool imaginative (and when possible, narrative) game of warhammer, so I never understood the need to always have everything fully painted, unless you are in a more serious tournment setting
btw, my favourite things in warhammer is to create custom stories, chapters, armies, characters and so on, also to play casual 4fun games (yes I go to tournments sometimes, and they are fun, but I never go with the intent of being super competitive, I just want to play fun games at an event)
and finally, love your vids, cheers from Brazil
"I like painting I don't play the game" -I sleep
"I Like the lore but I don't play the game"
-I sleep
"I like the game, but not painting"
-REAL SHIT
Never understood the double standard lmao
people seem to forget that outside of comp play Warhammer is a game of spectacle. The first two reasons you listed only affect the person who participates in them. When I bring my fully painted Sororitas army to a narrative match though and my opponent is fielding his half assembled grey tide its a slap in the face.
Necrons: love them, pure hobby, though their the most fragile models in my opinion, and i'm very clumsy
The group of friends I play with actively ignore the 10 points for painted. I only ever play with painted minis. Does this feel unfair to me? No, I paint them because I want to. That's a me thing, got nothing to do with playing the game. Great video, have to agree completely. Having said that, taking the piss is still funny.
Honestly I don’t mind unpainted models, but I do find it a good motivator for me to paint more models if I have a game coming up.
Wait, you actually put something in the triangle for the Imperial Guard... But, but, YOUR MEME!!! :P For some reason I was half expecting there to be a minor black hole inside that one.
For me, I've mellowed out significantly on the whole painted thing. I used to not really care, but get kind of riled up about it... Then I was "THAT GUY" at a bleeping tournament with half my force primed, and half of it bare plastic. Everyone was supportive and encouraging about things, and the tournament organizer even made a playful prize for me, as he knew that I'd bought my last 40 Guardsmen (this was back when they came 20 to a box) just two days before the event because that's when I had the money to get them (as I was forced to use the newer Codex, not the Catachan one), and had spent two evenings getting everything assembled in time (and then got like 5 hours of sleep before the tournament). The prize was a Foundation Paint Starter set.
These days? It's a case of "congrats, you got the things put together!" doubly so if it's spiky painful ones like Drukhari (fine, I'll use the new spelling, even though I hate it), and I'd rather be supportive of someone showing up to play, to learn things, and most importantly, start building that personal lore for their plastic army doods. A good chunk of this is thanks to our local Infinity Warcor talking about why his demo game minis weren't painted at the time (he'd gotten the box not that long before, and he has young kids), plus just how worried my husband is about some elements of the community (thanks to a few elitist staffers at our local Games Workshop store - so thankful our favourite staff member is rather chill and relaxed about things!)
It's something that especially new players are stupidly worried about, so instead of worrying about the fact it's grey plastic, we should be supporting them in their new hobbies, so they CONTINUE to play the game, and maybe there are reasons they haven't yet - it could be something as simple as they were gifted a box of minis, some basic tools and glue, and don't have paint yet. Or they haven't figured out what brushes they might want, or there's decision paralysis because of the six bajillion paints out there, and how there's so many arguments about "what's the best"... There's just so many factors with things, and it's best to just support where we can.
in my Warhammer group, we have a rule where if you can’t bring so many painted models to the table you have to play down in points. So if I have 2000 points of guardsmen painted and ready to go in a month later, you don’t have no more than 1500 points ready to go you have to play up to my 2000 points.
It makes it fun. It makes it this mutually armed destruction kind of feeling when playing the game that there is crunch time that if you’re your army isn’t ready to go you’re not gonna be ready to go into some extent it pushes you to be a better painter also .
But if somebody who’s recently finally finally finished off my gray pile of shame, I can understand putting it off lol it is very strange to have nothing to paint.
But with that, also I have to say I feel like a lot of people in the community make painting to be way more competitive than it needs to be. I think at the end of the day you only need three different colors on each individual model and I think it gives your army a real luster that a lot of people don’t appreciate that some models just aren’t painted as well as others , in the back of my mind, my oldest guardsman as well as the ones I just finished, but also those first guards have seen way more action than any of my other units have, it really gives them the right to say I’ve seen a lot more than you have I earned these scars.
I think my graph leans most towards hobbying, coming from Gundam, and then the lore. I know next to nothing about the rules outside of a few Auspex Tactics guides
Didn't know grey models were taboo (don't have a game group in town so I have nothing better to do than paint)
I didn't knew it neither. There is not a signel gaming place nor tournament in my country that requires painting minis.
At very best, you can get roughly 10% bonus points in some tournaments or less than 1% (depending on scoring system) in others, but the difference is pretty much meaningles for mostmatches.
I always love the "childhood nostalgia, definitely not belonging to any sort of copyright obsessed company" music, especially from Italian Racing Game
And "Beautiful Woman who beat the crap out of me many times as a child and confused and fascinated me for the rest of my life and I can never rid myself of the memory or fixation of her" from Pet Adventure Game
Bringing grey models is a huge motivator for getting them painted after the game for me. There is also assembled models can be played with when they're assembled painted models only add to the "cool" factor. No need to rush a paintjob or slog through painting 40 of the same dude. I like to spend my time on other things besides painting too.
The funniest thing is, every store I went to always made it clear they do not care if your models are unpainted. It's only an internet opinion from my experience.
And that’s where they’ve failed you my sweet summer pail. Stop buying more models from those nasty stores whose goal is to sell more models, and be content to paint the ones you already have. They’ve played you and it’s okay, but don’t let them get the best of you. You’re better and wiser now.
@richardmartin6069 bruh I think it took me 4 months before I bought a mini from them, and I get half of my miniatures from 3d printers anyway. I litteraly told the owner "I want to do a Tzeentch spawn conversion but with non-GW models because they're too expensive, do you have something in mind?" and he helped me out. We took 20min to search through the store even though I ended up not taking anything at the end (it turns out very few minis are being made with avian features).
Not everybody is a compulsive buyer, and not every shopowner is a greedy goblin.
@@Sir_Bucketyou speak as though you are the only person to walk through the doors
@@saltminer7065 I speak of my personnal experience, as I've written
Honestly, I detest elitism in the hobby... and gw seems to have encouraged that kind of snobbery in recent years. I once had a prominent member of the conversion community tell me I spoiled his immersion because I never showed painted minis on my posts.
The irony is, he turns up to events with unpainted, unfinished and sometimes proxy models.
Yeah, he got blocked 😏
I often play with new models the first couple of times before their paintjob is finished. Be it grey, primed, or just basecoats, playing with them is what motivates me to finish them.
I personally wait a few games before painting so I can give specific models that do really cool and badass things a unique paint job. Like my engineseer who single handily took on a deathleaper or my sicarian infiltrator that dodged my buddies entire shooting phase. Now I’ve started my Aeldari army and I am going to wait until after the crusade to paint them so I can show the story of the crusade in their paint jobs
Plain and simple: You paid for it, you glued it together - It's your property so you can do whatever you want with it. No matter whether gray or in color.
Guy that runs the local tournament scene knows me to have my army about half painted and constantly asks if I have it battle ready.
I ended up playing him in an out of town tournament where I lost to him by 2 points. I will have this held over me forever at the local scene until I have a painted army 😂😭
I also have unpainted models. Most of mine have some kind of primer on them, but they haven’t been painted. My reasoning is because I don’t know what paint scheme I want to use, or I don’t have the colours I want to use. I’ve always had the colours to paint my space marines, but I want to actually become good at painting before I give them a shot.
I’m quite new to this hobby, paid for my fist combatpatroll in mai 2024 and played my fist game of 1000p in Oktober. I don’t like to play with or against gray models but on my fist 10 games 8 games wars against unpainted armes. It’s look not so nice and because all the models are new to me they are all gray blobs to me.
Good video. But the only problem with this, and the main reason why I would advice against it is - some models are very hard to paint fully assembled. These days I paint most of my models in subassembly, basically every part that would be hard to paint fully assembled I paint separately and only after that it goes on to the model. Things like capes, drapes, sometimes hands holding a weapon close to the body etc. Especially things that are noticeable at first glance.
But with that said, nothing is stopping people from using proxies for such models.
Good god, the Techmarine in the picture at 1:18 looks phenomenal!!!
I did win a game in our local escalation league only because my models were painted and my opponent' weren't, and I hated it.
I started in a spearhead group with my painted nighthaunt, but switched to my still unpainted orks to avoid having two people with nighthaunt.
Also, I was restocking my shelves when I started hearing the cards being opened. That felt like more of an attack than my tendency to avoid playing with unpainted minis.
Im pretty sure most people don't mind the odd unit being grey, people understand that time is limited and you might not have everything ready for a battle. What people don't like is cutting through a sea of grey.
But I also don't mind using first born as primaris so long as the base is right. Just makes for 'small' devestators squad for the melta guys.
You convinced me, after almost a year of painting just a couple of miniatures for a T’au army because of lack of time (and having a lot of box not open because I initially wanted to finish a unit before assemble a new one) and never played a game of W40k. Now I will focus more on finish to assemble 500-1000 points of my army, find a place to play with where grey miniatures are tolerated and sometime painting them.☺
Hey 3:55 what’s wrong with imperial guard
Bro said “1 unpainted model is bad” while he had like half his army painted
literally have never played warhammer where there was a fully painted army. ever. even after playing it for like 8 years
Got my friend into 40k. I offered to paint his army for free because i love painting so much. (Not because i despise grey minis on table top...not at all...(I'm half joking idc if you play with grey minis but its just very boring))
its ok to be gray, but its not ok to stay gray. pick up the brush. you got this king.
For me, for the longest time I was "if it isn't painted I can't put it on the table" after having a really bad experience against an unpainted army. Growing up, I think my general rule now is to just show that you're putting effort into the army. As in you're investing in the miniatures for the long run, as opposed to chasing the latest cheese meta with gray models that'll probably get discarded as soon as the next Eldar codex drops.
My friends and I play with grey all the time, it's not that anyone is lazy, we just want to play with our newly built mini's asap. They get painted eventually but we would rather play a game than not have to wait or everything to be painted
It's pretty clear that the rule is there for GW to sell more mini paints and supplies.
I do not know of any group that actually follows that outside of GW stores and one local group that so desperately wants to be a GW subsidiary that they don't even allow legends units or non-matched play in their clubhouse.
My main hobby store group ignores the painting points and rules. Having fully painted is awesome but all of us work so having unpainted models is just a factor. So long as you continue to work on it as you go it’s cool.
How would I even make a graph? I love to paint and I try my hardest to paint well to the point where it takes me 6 hours to paint one Battle Sister. I collect Orks, Sisters, Thousand Sons and as a side project, Raven Guard (soon to be turned in to Space Wolfs). I have no time to paint 6 hours for each model. Painting is the reason I started the hobby, but I can't muster the enrgy to paint every day or even every month. I like the lore a lot and my will to play comes and goes. Sometimes I want to play multiple times each week and sometimes don't want to play at all. So in short, my triangle is having a rave.
I generally agree that grey tide is acceptable, but I'm also a big proponent of "Prime your minis at least"
A couple hours and a couple cans of matte black spray paint do a lot for an army.
As a genestealer player and an adult, whose only recently got to 2000 points, if I had to paint all my army before playing, then by the time I finished painting the game rules will have changed enough to invalidate my army (this has already happened once after the deletion of 25% astra militarum, RIP my chaos rogal dorn 😢)
Hobbyist here, Love seeing a model buying it and either keeping it un touched or painting it.
Hell I’ve recently got into buying Recasts this year due them being cheaper and having OOP/exclusive models I missed to get officially.
Though I keep hearing ppl talking about unpainted armies being bad from time to time and out of spite I want to buy/paint an Army to look like they’re off the Sprue.
Like Black primer, dark grey then grey with white areas finished with a Gloss varnish.
Paint your minis.
you see i have a necron army meaning half my minis are just 5 minutes of painting green details and dots
I found myself getting into lore and wanted to get into painting and the game. Been using gambling profits to buy up a 1000 point chaos undivided army because my brother got me the starting set this year.
But I’d love to one day find an Ikit claw on a doom wheel model and paint that. Practice with the army and then go to a model that’ll take some time but looks nice enough that I’ll be proud of it.
My triangle for orks would be completely purple everywhere
Here's a reason why unpainted gray is cool. Dusk Raiders and Revenant Legion were both (mostly) unpainted grey. They're still some of the coolest pre-Primarch legions.
Screaming Ravens champion idea: A chaplain covered in jewels and shiny objects
I don't mind playing against unpainted models. However...when that same person is rocking up week after week with the same models not painted or even progressed, that kind of frustrates me as an opponent. I get its their hobby and they don't have to paint it but it certainly takes the immersion out of it for me. At least work on your minis, don't just rock up week after week playing with the same unpainted minis!
My club hosted a small 1000pts narrative crusade and seeing grey minis in that just totally killed it for me. That's just my 10p into the conversation :)
It's fine, you have that really well painted techmarine now.
You would be shocked how many toxic people using painting minis as a way of gate keeping.
Painting is just a very different experience for everyone, some struggle with it, some love it but just need a lot of time, for some its a breeze, some are very experienced, some are beginners... i fall somewhere in the: i really like it, but i take a lot of time... so i wouldnt be able to play the games every bc i just take to long to finish my projects, and like you said: playing the games and getting inspired by friends and situations can make you want ro paint more -- so yes, i like your take on this topic :)
Me and my friends don't play with the 10pts rules for painted army. We find it dumb and shouldn't even be a thing lmao.
(totally not because one of my friend plays tyranids and got so many of 'em it would take him years to finish them)
It would take about two months to paint a 2,000 point Tyranid list if you painted for 5 hours a week. Not that hard.
@@breadmoment7018 He has yet to find the courage to paint his models.. Slowly, there's progress.
One way to possibly mitigate the whole "Ew, unpainted army" reactions is to at least prime/base coat the mini so there's at least SOME paint on it. Plus doing a prime/base coat is fairly simple to do, just spray the whole thing in mono-colour
I mean i play heresy so if you rock up with unpainted models I'm not going to play you because it's in the rules that you have to play with a painted army.
just give it a quick zenithal prime so you can see the details on the thing. two cans of spray paint and like 10-20 minutes of work time depending on how many models.
That ending is the only content I need