It's hard for us today to understand how short in distance each segment of the silk road could be. Caravans would move goods between cities, rarely more than a few hundred kilometers apart, then sell them to intermediaries and turn back. Therefore, even most merchants never saw much of the Silk Road. As a result, what Rome and China knew about each other was mostly hearsay, passed through dozens of hands and many translations before arriving. The few people, if any, who actually managed to travel the whole route in a single lifetime would have had only their word to go against whatever rumors were prevalent at the time.
Best overall explanation yet. This is it. The higher officials in both empires knew the best information available. They knew that vast empires existed on opposite ends of the silk route.
@@ernstschmidt4725 If aliens are real, and if we occasionally receive signals from them... then maybe? It's more like the brother of some guy your sister dated for awhile back in college. You've never met either the boyfriend or his brother, and your sister went to school in another state, they broke up after 6 months and you never connected with any of them on Facebook. You know he exists, and you think he's an accountant, or maybe a guitarist? You're not sure, but you know someone who knows someone who knows him.
The goods traded themselves would also provide information. Artwork for example, even simple things like pottery or glassware decorated with Roman/Chinese people, symbols and language, gives some insight into the world these items came from. It's not the same as travelling to these lands but it can help you paint a picture of their architecture, their clothing, their faiths, their physical traits etc.
@@eterntsin6415 The mentality of "Anyone not Roman is a barbarian who should be conquered" was a mindset adopted by the Roman aristocracy and political class, not merchants
Also Persia: "I'll be honest, it's in my interest for you not to team up with them, but I'm also being honest here. These guys are hell-bent on conquest and the only thing they know about you is that you are another nation for them to invade and subjugate. Trust me dude... just walk away. You have no idea what I've been through."
Interesting tangential fact: An ancient Roman coin depicting Constantine was found in Katsuren Castle in Okinawa, Japan. The first Ancient Roman artifact to ever be found in Japan, though it's good to note that at the time, Okinawa would've been the Ryukyu Kingdom and much more closely aligned with China.
@@flavio0004 yeah that's fair. apparently they found traces of judaism in Japan too like there are myths and religious books that resemble some tribes that went missing during their pilgrimage from egypt to isreal, if i recall correctly. And also some god that look exactly the same from Mesopotamia to south America. It's crazy to think the word might have intra-connections far before marco polo and colombus.
@@CCPJAYLPHAN1994 Your chinese empire ended when the Mongols took over And at the times the mongols took over the Roman Empire was still a thing and most importantly distinctly Roman and not a foreign ruled nation
Hhahahahaha, hahahahaha, Looks like whity made up history again. First: Roman was not white, so don’t boast about Rome makes yourself hap, and using full time Roma map vs founding of Han dynasty map? Yo man, before your Jesus was born, Xinjiang was already the territory of China. China was much bigger than this. Do your research first please or you did it on purpose? China conquered Hun, Hun ran to the west, conquered German, then German conquered western Roma. China conquered Turks, Turks ran to west, then Turk conquered eastern Roma. So ya, to be honest, China had a lot of things to do, China didn’t pay much attention on Roma, they only knew some stupid country in the western was begging for some silks and ect ect. Second: China calls Roma , only becuz Persia called Roma : Dasnia, by transliteration, it became daqin, it nothing about Roma is great. Third: China always sees herself is the center of the world , everyone as barbarian, including Roma and whatever it is. 4th: About trade, China only knew some stupid country in the west was always crying for cheap silk here, it was the roman who kept wanting to trade with china, not China, please. Roma lost tons of gold to the eastern only because they want silk by itself, and most of gold were took by Persians. In the end, I want to say China conquered Hun, Hun ran to west, conquered German, then German ended western Roma. China conquered Turks, Turks ran to west, then Turk ended eastern Roma. China was sorry ended your western civilization, and force you went into dark mid age.
@@cookieblue7797 what are you talking about.. i just said that rome is not interested in china and that the persians dont want the two to be friends ._.
Sheng Zhang China’s dynasties were basically new countries each time one changed as most of the time when the dynasties ended the country was fractured until a new power managed to come back and re unite the country, imagine if America fell apart every time the party changed and each time a new state reformed America
I love how the Chinese broke out of the stereotype and admired Rome while the Roman's were like "not 100% Trojan descendant stoic conqueror? Sounds like a barbarian to me"
I do believe the Romans considered themselves both Trojan and Latin, because Aeneus CHADUS MAXIMUS married a Latin girl, not a Trojan women. Remember, Dovahhaty’s Unbiased History isn’t 100% historically accurate 😂
@@hexa3389 It’s not really about that, I just said that so any people passing by your comment knew the reality and also to call you out on watching dovahhatty cuz I saw one of your comments in one of his videos about germanics restarting the Roman empire when they were the ones who killed it off. I thought it was funny
@@sushidope1701 And? His videos are entertaining and I watch them for entertainment. And when you're discussing fiction you are not dealing with history, but fiction. So in this context saying something that is historically invalid is ok as you're not talking about history, you're talking about fiction. Why people fail to understand this is beyond me. Again, what I said was exaggerated in purpose of comedy, it was not a historically valid statement in purpose of education.
@@GaysianAmerican Well, Rome's legacy via it's culture, architecture, art & sciences, and writing system (which China uses before teaching children Hanzi), still survives, and though Rome itself as a country is no more, it's successor states here and doing well, and China itself has adopted many things from Rome's successors, like science and modern architecture, political ideas and art. And honestly, China itself is nothing but a successor state as well. The Han Dynasty is long gone, like Rome, but its legacy lives on, like Rome.
China might've had more indirect influence on Rome than this video suggests. During the reign of Emperor Wu of Han (no he had nothing to do with the city of Wuhan), the Han Dynasty defeated the people of Xiongnu, as the Chinese called them. As a result, Southern Xiongnu submitted to his reign while Northern Xiongnu pushed West, away from Han, taking over numerous cities in Central Asia. It is speculated that the Xiongnu are likely the same people as the Huns from studies on the timeline of migration and genetic continuity (which is why in Mulan, they directly translated Xiongnu to Huns, the name Westerners are more familiar with). The Huns did not have a central government but raided European cities, including Roman cities, for loot, which may have stimulated the Great Migration that contributed to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Mulan epic is originally about the war against the Rouran Khaganate if I'm not mistaken. The animation just changed it into the Huns as it's better known in the west
yeah i studied ancient history in italian schools. I learned that Huns were one of the direct reasons for the fall of Western Acient Rome. They were fast on horse and pushed ostrogoths and visigoths west into Rome's territory. They invaded all the way to river of Po (close to Milan), and while residing there they drank infected river water and most likely decimated due to disease spread among warriors. It's unknown if any of them ever remained alive but they were very close but not close enough to reach Rome. Visigoths invaded Rome (Sack of Rome) not long after tho and Rome was pretty much officially done for.
@@michaelweston409 Actually not really. While the Romans might have had an arguable technological advantage the Han could Soviet Union Meme right over them metaphorically and literally.*
@@michaelweston409 Lets say no side copy tech from the other, only adapt their strategy. So, the reason would be Arrows n cavalry. With rome, their infantry is their backbone while their cavalry is a support. Archer isnt much. With china, infantry the majority, cavalry is the elite, lots of archer. And they got stirrup too for their cav. So, rome would bombard china with long range artillery, china would swamp over roman cavalry and harass the flank with their horse archer. At any rate, rome got artillery units while china got better cavalry n archer. BUt yeah, rome was larger. Too bad it fell apart.
Eleeth Tahgra I think Rome would have a advantage when it came to their walls. Romans had great engineering ability & could construct large unpregnible city walls that no invader could get past until the advent of gunpowder. The Chinese had superior archers. The Chinese had repeating hand held crossbows which they armed over a 100,000 of their own archers with. The repeating crossbow could fire almost like a mideval machine gun. They would darken the sky with arrows until no Roman was left.
The Han Empire called the Roman Empire "Daqin" which actually referred to the last Chinese Dynasty Qin. Qin is the first unified empire that illustrated the current-day Chinese border, but eventually was overthrown because of the bloody ruling style. Han succeeded Qin, and seeing the greatness of the Romans, they named it "Daqin" since it was as great as the last dynasty.
@@mypasswordisuod7f1kwjrvzx32 actually to be a ruling dynasty they were united as china's boarders have changed significantly over the ages. They are still dynasties of power but using united as a dying characteristic would be wrong. The Qin were the great dynasty which they modeled themselves on so calling the intermediate dynasties between them an less important just because they lacked land would be ridiculous.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx Its the (likely mythical) Xia, then Shang, the Zhou, then Qin. Only the Qin unified what is no called China proper (so not tibet or sinkiang), therefore is called the "First Chinese Empire".
Ah, yeah, Da-Yuan (Great(er) Ionia) actually was conquered by the Chinese, because they liked their horses, these horses were the only thing that could actively fight against the Xiongnu.
There are a few interesting videos I've seen that are readings of a Chinese scholar's opinions on Rome. You can tell they had lots of respect for the Romans and understood their culture quite well for it being so alien to them.
Romans and Chinese have a lot of similarities in attatudes and some cultural practices. Hell even today doing buisness in modern China is very similar to how the Romans did buisness.
This actually speaks a lot for how the "known world" was defined by the barrier of great distances. Communication of any kind was difficult at best. So with the two empires a world away, and most middle-men NOT wanting Rome involved, it was unlikely they'd ever have relations besides adventurous traders.
I can imagine it was like another planet during these times. How do people come in to be able to communicate and come up with translation in the first place?
@@mosswine5417 well, "other languages" would not have been an unheard of concept. One as different as Chinese would have been a VERY special case though. But we're talking the best linguists on both sides establishing some form of interpreters, probably more among the Chinese than the glass-house Romans.
The Parthian Empire had had long and bloody wars with Rome. Thus the Parthians (i.e. Persians) were not too keen on anyone making alliances with Rome. This random envoy from Han China alarmed them, so Parthian authorities sought to confuse him enough to send him back to China. I bet this Chinese envoy would've made it all the way to Rome if the Parthian Empire hadn't existed to "poison the well" so to speak...
@@pdruiz2005 It is completely fake. If you can calm down and look at the archaeological process of China and Italy, the comparison of cultural relics will show how big your lie is. Ancient Rome had no civilization, it was forged later
@Bilimin Sırları Turks evolves into Ottoman Empire: *Sieges Constantinople, Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) falls, Roman civilization ends* Turks looking at Romans, Persians and the Chinese: Ya'll are cute
Hhahahahaha, hahahahaha, Looks like whity made up history again. First: Roman was not white, so don’t boast about Rome makes yourself hap, and using full time Roma map vs founding of Han dynasty map? Yo man, before your Jesus was born, Xinjiang was already the territory of China. China was much bigger than this. Do your research first please or you did it on purpose? China conquered Hun, Hun ran to the west, conquered German, then German conquered western Roma. China conquered Turks, Turks ran to west, then Turk conquered eastern Roma. So ya, to be honest, China had a lot of things to do, China didn’t pay much attention on Roma, they only knew some stupid country in the western was begging for some silks and ect ect. Second: China calls Roma , only becuz Persia called Roma : Dasnia, by transliteration, it became daqin, it nothing about Roma is great. Third: China always sees herself is the center of the world , everyone as barbarian, including Roma and whatever it is. 4th: About trade, China only knew some stupid country in the west was always crying for cheap silk here, it was the roman who kept wanting to trade with china, not China, please. Roma lost tons of gold to the eastern only because they want silk by itself, and most of gold were took by Persians. In the end, I want to say China conquered Hun, Hun ran to west, conquered German, then German ended western Roma. China conquered Turks, Turks ran to west, then Turk ended eastern Roma. China was sorry ended your western civilization, and force you went into dark mid age.
@Andrew SmithYou cant make those conclusions. The political rule of china was overthrown, conquered and transformed many times. As others has said its not the same state that survived to today. Its just the name of the country still in use. Its like saying the ottomans still lives because there is a Turkey. Or France and the franks...
@Andrew Smith True but Rome heavily influenced the peoples that they ruled over so even after Rome's fall, their cultures bore their influence plus they revered the memory of Rome and sought to be like them and they'd go on to become strong nations that formed great empires that outdid all non-European nations. Today, Western civilization can be regarded as the heir to Rome and has achieved a level of dominance over the world that the Romans could only have dreamed of. Of course, China's continued survival through numerous dynasties and times of upheaval is remarkable and once again, China is one of the world's major powers despite its problems and crappy government. It's odd though that despite everything that's happened since the time of Rome, we end up with China and the West as two opposing powers facing off against each other and having poor relations.
Andrew Smith actually the nation itself is not the same as the China of old, you could argue that the culture is the same, but that’s just like the Roman Empire, all of Western Europe is it’s descendants, so ask yourself, staying a National identity for thousands of years, or an entire continents national identity coming from Rome, and technically Rome still exists as Italy anyways
@@klol3369 yes, you can say that Rome still alive in Italy, but today Rome is much much weaker than his ancient era, while China is much much powerful than before included territory is much extended, try to compare to Rome, that is the main difference
The Chinese were interested in Western wine, btw. There is a record of a man in Eastern Han who managed to become a provincial official after 'gifting' wine to his superior.
@@takarifan No, his name was Meng Tuo, the superior in question was Zhang Rang, one of the Ten Attendants eunuchs, and the account is from The Book of the Later Han.
Both empires also considered themselves to be the center of the world, showed by naming conventions. Mediterranean means middle of the earth, and 中国, or ZhongGuo, means middle kingdom.
Actually, 中國 is the shorthand form for 中華人民共和國，which means People's Republic of China. The name 中國 wasn't invented until 1911 when Republic of China was established.
Werrll ... Mediterranean DOES sort of mean "in the middle of the Earth," but Many other peoples lived along its shores, not just the Romans. The sea got its Latin name very early on, long before the Roman Empire came into existence, and if it belonged to anyone, it would have been the Greeks and the Carthaginians. Do you have any more convincing arguments?
@@sharon_ng Usage of the name 中國 can be dated back very long however it is not used as a name for a country but rather a general term for a region, similar to 中原, which means central plains.
As an Italian I can say that the word Serica also in today's Italian means "made with silk" , and this is because the Chinese people were called "Seri" by the Romans
Correction! China: I think about you alot! Rome: I think about ravaging your land, and salting your fields. Killing your elderly, and taking your valuables. I think about conquering your land, and enslaving your women! I will conquer you. Like how I conquered the Carthagens, the Celts, and the natives of the Bulgarians! That is what I THINK ABOUT! China: You sound so cute.
The easternmost extent of the Roman Empire and the westernmost extent of the Han Dynasty were at least 2800 miles apart, straight line distance, and probably more than 3500 miles by the shortest land routes. That means it would probably take a minimum of a full year for a traveler to traverse not only very daunting mountains and deserts, but also be in constant danger of bandits along the way. Not surprising contact between the two empires were slight.
I love the idea of people in Rome believing it was their destiny to one day conquer "Serica". The collapse of civilization very often seems unthinkable to those who live within it, and depending on the time period there would be no reason to assume that society would become more fragmented and less unified over time. It's a glimpse into ancient thinking, kind of like that story about the Gaulish envoys telling Alexander that the thing they feared most was the sky falling on top of them. It's charming in a grotesque way lol
Romans actually did believe in collapse of civilisations and that eventually all would fall. That’s why to them it was their destiny to conquer Serica. It’s the destiny of all empires eventually to fall (and they would fall by conquests and not complex economic reasons). And so then would be only be natural that only strongest empire of the would be able to defeat the second strongest one in the East. And Rome was the strongest! They didn’t assume they could fall if there was not much stronger empire around to defeat them directly. Although fracturing of empire in many civil wars was a concern.
'Did the Romans ever meet the Chinese? Or any far eastern peoples?' "They were aware of each other, like you are aware that the clothes you are wearing right now were made in some East Asian shithole. But since it's so far away, you don't really give much of a shit. That was the general vibe." - Dovahhatty
Friend of mine is a huge Asian history buff and speaks a bit of mandarin, he told me a while ago that Daqin meant "Great China" in the same sense as the "Great Wall" i.e. that it's very big. His completely believable and _freaking hilarious_ explanation for this is that Han China, viewing themselves as the center of the known universe, made a habit of referring to other regions/nations as "___ China" with the blank space being filled with whatever adjective most clearly differentiated that region from their own territory. They couldn't pick a geographic descriptor (Rome covered a diverse array of topograpgies and climates over three continents) but they also couldn't call them "rich China" and imply that the Han empire itself was poor, so they went "fuck it, they've got a lot of land, they're BIG China." because size is not necessarily a value judgment.
the modern name of China "Zhong Guo" literally means "Central Country", because they believed they were the center of the world. I don't think whoever came up with these names were very original with naming stuff. "As long it sounds important" I guess is their logic lol.
@@SuperLol To be fair, I think any empire that gets big enough just runs out of names. Just look at the number of places in Canada and America that are basically just named "New [English place]"
@@alessandragonzales8190 Nah that's fair. I think it's more depending on how modern people use it, it can get pretentious sometimes. And that is ofc the same with many things in the West too.
That's not true. The Qin Dynasty was the ruling dynasty before Han, and the Han China called themselves Da Han (Great Han). So Da Qin means that Han saw Rome as an equal empire, not a greater one.
That might be possible, but seems unlikely to me. At the time, China referred to itself as "Great Han," while "Qin" was seen as its predecessor state. Even today in Chinese history, the Qin dynasty is seen as hugely important and the root of the Chinese dynastic legacy, so to use "Qin" to refer to Rome would imply at the very least an acknowledgement of Rome as a heritage rivaling that of China.
It's even worse than the video makes it out. The Persians told him it'd be another 3 years travel to get to Rome. It was actually just a few more months to get to Antioch, where you could just take one of the regularly-departing boats to Rome.
There's just so many huge blank spots in Western historiography that channels like this could easily fill instead of focusing on the well familiar. I mean, fine, we may be getting more and more details of the twentieth century but wouldn't it be a bit cooler to find out at least _something_ about, say, Egypt in the hugeass period spanning between Cleopatra and the British rule? The Mameluk reign over Egypt is something that has no close equivalent in Western history and would make for more than one great video. Or hell, what was happening in the Middle East during the Napoleonic Wars? The Saudis and Wahhabis were trying to take over the entire Arabian peninsula, that's what. Another fantastic topic for discussion.
@@randomname5083 The Ancient Romans considered the Germanic tribes barbarians. Now their descendants, the Anglo-Saxons, along with Celtic cohorts like the Welsh and Scots, are running the world and English is the lingua franca that replaced Latin.
@@kukifitte7357 That's dumb as hell if I may be blunt. English belongs in the Germanic language branch while Latin is in the Romance branch. Both belong to the Indo-European family but share nothing close to 60% in neither grammar nor vocabulary.
The video is intended to be short so I woudn't expect it to mention every little detail, but I think I remember learning in one of my classes that despite their unenthusiastic attitude to China, the Romans did briefly consider the possibility of establishing an alliance with them in the hopes that China would attack and distract Persia from the other side and facilitate Roman conquest. Apart from the communication troubles, though, I believe Rome lost interest when rising internal struggles rendered the prospect of conquering Persia much less of a realistic priority.
Gan Ying might have also failed because he had trouble communicating with the traders/sailors he was asking about travel to Rome. He apparently was trying to get there by sea and so traders told him it would take years while they sailed around Arabia. He might have continued on if he knew there was a land border with Parthia a relatively short distance away
One random fact I know is that a Chinese emissary did make it to Constantinople during 8th century, at the same time an Anglo-Saxon Bishop was also visiting the city. I wonder if they ever met.
Gan Ying actually got pretty close to the eastern provinces of Rome. Had they just kept heading east a bit more they would have reach it in a few weeks but the Persians, fearing a Rome-Han alliance told Gan it would take many more years to reach Rome in an attempt to dissuade the Han.
China: "Oh cool, another great empire! We should be buddies and take lands from Parthia. :)" Rome: "It is your destiny to be but one of our many conquests." China: "...not cool, man. I was nice and everything. :("
The Han Dynasty was built on opposing the Qin Dynasty, and the Qin Dynasty was not a good word. And if it really regards the other side as an equal opponent, it should also call the other side the center of civilization. However, in the Han Dynasty, "Han" was the center, and the other "Chu", "Qin" and "Qi" were just its vassals. So the Han Dynasty actually regarded Rome as its potential vassal state.
This was more than I was expecting, actually. I figured most of the trading was done through third parties, and they didn't care too much about the origins of the goods being sold. Actually knowing about each other to the point of having a name for each other is fascinating. Alexander the Great went as far as India, but that's pretty much the end of it. I assumed the Romans didn't think there was much beyond the Ganges, at least early on. I figured China knew more though, and I've read there were a few points where Chinese explorers almost reached Roman territory.
This is a pretty west-centric view. From a east-centric view the reason Rome is called "Daqin" is a reference to the first unifying dynasty in China, the Qin Regime. Rome shared a lot of great similarities to Qin in terms of unification smaller surrounding regions, law, nation identity, centrality of government, etc. Hence the respect and understanding despite the distance.
@MeteoricDec I don't understand your reasoning can you explain further. For both sides he did not go into the reason for both empires to respect/distain the other. So to me it means that there is neither West nor East centric point of view to the other because that was left out in order to make a nice short video
No this is incorrect. China did not call other empires “big China” “small China”. Foreign empires are formally named phonetically. It is a series of phonetic corruptions and mistranslations across geography and time that caused Chinese transliteration of “Latin” to sound like “Da Qin” which just happened to be the name of a major dynasty, but it is not named so because China thought it was its equal. On that basis, China would’ve given it the name of Han, not Qin. Of course, this is just a theory, but there’s no confirmation on why China called Rome “Da Qin”
Two possibilities. 1. The persian was right and he would be killed. 2. The romans was quite sensible that they would exchange some sort of diplomatic contact and thats about it. Gift exchange (we are talking about lots of goods here) and formal visit would be too difficult due to distance and security. I mean the persian would not allow even 100 roman soldiers pass through their border. Same with han's neighbours.
@@eleethtahgra7182 The Persians and Arabs and Turks wanted to remain the middle men in the lucrative trade between East Asia and Europe. They succeeded for 1500 years and drove Columbus to try sailing west in order to reach Asia.
I imagine the Chinese would have showered the Romans with praise and gifts, gasping in awe at everything they saw, weeping tears of joy at the dawn of a great new era of contact between two civilisations of immense power and glory. The Romans, meanwhile, would entertain their guests cordially, but would see their visit as nothing more than an opportunity to gain information about a potentially threatening foreign land. They would try to manipulate them, bribe them, get them drunk, anything to get them talking freely. It is quite possible they might simply torture them for information and kill them - I can see the Romans cynically thinking it better they never return home, as then Rome has had the advantage of contact, but not China. China could be idealistic and hopeful, whereas Rome was more pragmatic and ruthless. Of course if the Romans knew just how far away China was, and how many tribes, nations and geographical barriers were between them, they would realise China was not a threat and not a practical trade or military partner either, and therefore have little interest in such contact with them aside from the sheer novelty of it.
@anonymous opinions You're incorrect for the most part. Columbus was neither indifferent nor ignorant of China. It was his goal. South Asia was a destination in addition to China -- not instead of China.
@@Flight_of_Icarus both occurred in the 5th century B.C. in fact if I remember correctly the whole Greco-Roman budism thing a a fascinating but fringe example of this cultural exchange. Would love to see if any Indians converted to hellenism.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx alexander founded several hellenic kingdoms in central asia in what is now azerbaijan and the countries around there which endured for centuries so the answer to your question is yes. these areas still have legends about alexander, as portrayed in the film "the man who would be king".
China: remember those times, Italy? Italy: good times. Too bad we didn't get to know each other closely back then! Iran, *chuckling in the corner* : too bad
I mean, Rome was plagued by so many civil wars that it's not even a joke to say that they were a Civil War Empire for most of their existence, especially after the West fell.
@Silver Chariot are you just straight up making up history? Mongol didn’t happen much much later? Also mongol didn’t destroy or change the culture of China at all.
@@papercat2599 Black Box is right, look up Five Barbarians. After Three Kingdoms wars and short unification under Jin, there was another civil war of Eight Princes followed by barbarian invasions, most capitals were taken by foreign invaders: Western Jin collapsed in 316 and Eastern in 420, beginning the era of Northern and Southern dynasties. I.e not a united China. Parallels to Byzantine and all.
China: "I heard they conquered half of the world, they are the greatest warriors that the world has ever seen" Persia: "Rome?" China: "So that is their name, "Rome".....Finally! a worthy Opponent! OUR BATLLE WILL BE LEGENDARY!!" Rome: "I dont even know who you are"
In 2nd century China had a war with casualties Europe won't see until World War 2. I don't think they cared about Rome when kidnapping emperors, burning the capital, and starving to cannibalism.
I have been waiting to watch this video for SO LONG. About a year. Finally, I get to learn that Rome and China didn't really know each other, but knew of each other.
China: This guy trades with me and also is an empire, he must be a great empire Rome: This guy trades with me and also is an empire, i must be a great empire
In fact GUAN YING asked the Persia how to get to Roma. Persian emperor answered, you can only take the boat, and mostly die on the sea, and also it is very far away, could take years.
I did my undergraduate thesis on the Silk Road and focused on how cultural exchange manifested through art. Even if China and Rome never had any direct contact, the sheer volume of symbols, motifs, and materials in each of their arts - as well as in the cultures between them - testify to the economic and cultural importance of trade contacts.
They had records of Chinese ambassadors making it to the Roman Court. Even Gibbon found that much out. It wouldn't take years to Travel. They went by boat catching the monsoon winds in the Indian Ocean. This was yearly trade. And is why Egypt, being the port of entry was so significant. You left out the Ganges Empire of India.
I guess that it wasn't be very difficult going from China to Rome 'coz the Silk Road was already stablished. What made it hard was that the Parthian Empire was there standing and they didn't want anyone crossing their nation.
Daqin is literally spells the Great Qin in Chinese, which is the predecessor of the Han dynasty.. not to mention Qin dynasty’s official name is just “Qin”. Chinese empires are named after the geographical region where the first emperor rose to power. The practice of adding the world Great isn’t a thing until the Yuan dynasty b/c Mongols had no title. I guess I wouldn’t expect shorts like this to be accurate, but making things up or cite Wikipedia isn’t an option either..
There is a strong suspicion that Gan Ying at 1:40 actually lied about the Persians telling him not to go further. He was clearly homesick, so when he reached the Persian Gulf coast/the Mediterranean Sea coast people along his travels told him he had thousands of miles left to go before reaching the city of Rome. Upon realizing this, he called it quits. So he made up the whole story of the Persians telling him not to go further. It's not like he was going to get punished for lying--how would the Chinese emperor ever find out? So he went back home on the back of that lie.
Rome greatly underestimated China. China at that time was the same as rome or even stronger. China had an organised society. Their own rich culture and tradition. They has a large population (much more than those romans). The romans thought they could one day conqure and destroy China! How insane!
The Romans had a huge superiority complex, which was partly their downfall. But the Chinese would also greatly underestimate the West, hence the Century of Humiliation in China
Some things never change i guess. China has been doing trade wars with western civilizations (or the other way around) for 2000 years. Egypt is always the Nile and a few extra miles either side. Russia is always in search of warm water ports. Germany is either extremely strong or extremely weak, never in between.
So basically Alexander the Great and Diogenes dynamic lmao. China: "If I were not China I would want to be Rome." Rome: "If I were not Rome I would want to be Rome."
0:38 you are actually wrong here, daqin doesn't actually mean great China in this case, qin is indeed the name of the previous dynasty, but its most likely doesn't have anything to do with the previous dynasty. regardless, the chinese definitely didn't see the romans as equal, after han wudi (which is the period when china official started to have contact with the western world) the chinese sees themselves as the center of the world, and the rest of the world are basically barbarians including the romans
Lol at 1:05 dude has a glass bowl on his head, other dude says "so rich" lol. Had me dying. Subtle humor. Maybe this is why 3 out of my 4 or 5 fav youtube channels are british guys telling me stuff. Subtle humor and a voice like a madman's lullaby unlike my own America with some cowboy shoving jokes in your face
Small inconsistency here. I liked this summary of Rome / Han views. But the Han China map shown is not its greatest extent like the Rome Map is shown. Many of the territories in the West along the silk road is not included here.
Not mentioned in this video are the various Chinese writings of the Han period that mention or describe Rome, and once read are clearly based on hearsay and traders' tales. Probably the most famous (and trustworthy) of these old writings comes from the historian Yu Huan, who detailed as much as he could about everything the Han knew about the world outside their borders.
Romans in the 6th century, under the rule of Justinian the Great, carried out one of the most lucrative trade espionage missions in history. Two monks and their entourage were dispatched by Justinian to China, as a sort of informal embassy, but their real task was to uncover the secret of silk production and to bring said knowledge back to the Empire. The mission went better than anyone dared to hope, and the monks actually managed to smuggle a silkworm back to Constantinople (a feat in and of itself considering how fragile the creature is, made even more problematic by the fact the Chinese would have executed them if they were caught, since anything pertaining to how silk was produced was a closely guarded state secret). Soon, silk production was set up in Constantinople, Antioch, and other larger cities of the Roman Empire, and it was so lucrative that the Emperor declared it a state monopoly. Roman silk was of inferior quality compared to the Chinese product, hence why the need for Chinese silk still remained, but it nevertheless made the Romans tons of cash.
Rome: "Our morality system says he must reject luxuries." Also Rome: Lives in expansive palaces filled with so many amenities that they are literally called the treasure country by a nation on the other side of the world.
When in mid 19th century a British delegation entered the imperial court they we're greeted in Latin, because the Chinese had maintained the language in case the Romans sought contact again.
China is already in contact with expanding Russia at the time and they communicated in Latin. For example, the Treaty of Nerchinsk of 1689 was in Latin.
There were Jesuit missionaries in Beijing since 17th century, during Ming Dinasty, and the Chinese court was aware that Latin was a diplomatic language in Europe during the Modern Ages. It had no direct connection to ancient Rome, but with Papal and later, different European nations who sent envoys in 18th century (see the extremely good collection of mechanical clocks inside the Forbidden City; it was a very sought diplomatic gift in the 1700s). The British always like to think they're the first to arrive to places.
A lot of people don’t know but back in Rome a lot of products had “made in Serica” back then
Here have a cookie for that 🍪
China was called the land of Silk
Awful....ly great joke
😆
"The Chinese are broking our artesans, they're taking 'er jobs!"
It's hard for us today to understand how short in distance each segment of the silk road could be. Caravans would move goods between cities, rarely more than a few hundred kilometers apart, then sell them to intermediaries and turn back. Therefore, even most merchants never saw much of the Silk Road. As a result, what Rome and China knew about each other was mostly hearsay, passed through dozens of hands and many translations before arriving. The few people, if any, who actually managed to travel the whole route in a single lifetime would have had only their word to go against whatever rumors were prevalent at the time.
Best overall explanation yet. This is it. The higher officials in both empires knew the best information available. They knew that vast empires existed on opposite ends of the silk route.
so... it's like aliens?
@@ernstschmidt4725 If aliens are real, and if we occasionally receive signals from them... then maybe?
It's more like the brother of some guy your sister dated for awhile back in college. You've never met either the boyfriend or his brother, and your sister went to school in another state, they broke up after 6 months and you never connected with any of them on Facebook. You know he exists, and you think he's an accountant, or maybe a guitarist? You're not sure, but you know someone who knows someone who knows him.
That was such an interesting explanation. Must have been like a mystical obscure far away land...
The goods traded themselves would also provide information. Artwork for example, even simple things like pottery or glassware decorated with Roman/Chinese people, symbols and language, gives some insight into the world these items came from. It's not the same as travelling to these lands but it can help you paint a picture of their architecture, their clothing, their faiths, their physical traits etc.
China: "If I were not China, I would want to be Rome"
Rome: "If I were not Rome, I'd also want to be Rome"
Nice reference
Nice Alexander and Diogenes reference
@@eterntsin6415 It wasn't Rome itself, but Roman merchants
@@eterntsin6415 The mentality of "Anyone not Roman is a barbarian who should be conquered" was a mindset adopted by the Roman aristocracy and political class, not merchants
@@eterntsin6415 they knew that Chinese were not barbarian I believe they just wanted to underestimate China to make themselves better
*Rome:* "I will salt the earth upon which your disgusting lesser kingdom stands."
*China:* "I think you're cute too."
Take my coronovirus!
Cory Branch tsundure
This is gonna lead to a tsundure fanfiction
The roman tsundere , vs the chinese hara-ara-han dynastie
@@AftermathRV *OH NO*
China: "I want to be friends with Rome"
Persia: "No, you don't"
Also Persia: "I'll be honest, it's in my interest for you not to team up with them, but I'm also being honest here. These guys are hell-bent on conquest and the only thing they know about you is that you are another nation for them to invade and subjugate. Trust me dude... just walk away. You have no idea what I've been through."
Persia being a jerk.
Wanted the beautiful Rome as his gf only.
@@sandrojones8068 more like Persia wanted the beautiful Greece (before Roman conquest) to be his gf, but then she got snatched up my Rome.
@Lt Fuckwit 539 BCE - 2020.
Lt Fuckwit Funny because we say the same in the West about the Byzantines
Interesting tangential fact: An ancient Roman coin depicting Constantine was found in Katsuren Castle in Okinawa, Japan. The first Ancient Roman artifact to ever be found in Japan, though it's good to note that at the time, Okinawa would've been the Ryukyu Kingdom and much more closely aligned with China.
but are we sure it was brouoght to Japan during that time tho? or later or much later like by collectors and such. 🤨
@@SuperLol its fun to think its ancient
@@flavio0004 yeah that's fair. apparently they found traces of judaism in Japan too like there are myths and religious books that resemble some tribes that went missing during their pilgrimage from egypt to isreal, if i recall correctly. And also some god that look exactly the same from Mesopotamia to south America. It's crazy to think the word might have intra-connections far before marco polo and colombus.
The coin could have arrived there much later. Like fallen out of tourist's fanny pack in 1984.
This comment section is truly stupid
Why does this guy always know what questions I have?
Totally not spies
Yes, milk, 2 sugars, thanks for asking mate :)
Invicta has a good video about this. And Voices of the Past if you want more
Next video idea: what did the american general public think about hitler prior to ww2?
He knows your porn search history.
Imagine a reality where Rome and China endured over the centuries and eventually did meet closer in central Asia.
I'm imagining that reality, and at some point in that reality war were declared.
An ancient cold war, brewing for centuries
You mean like China still exist, but not Rome. Yea we Chin outlasted the Rome, the Communist party effectively rule as another dynasty
@@CCPJAYLPHAN1994 Your chinese empire ended when the Mongols took over
And at the times the mongols took over the Roman Empire was still a thing and most importantly distinctly Roman and not a foreign ruled nation
Or in the middle of the Americas.
China: *Sends Friend Request to Rome*
Server: *You can’t send Friend Request Right now. There are Persians near by.*
China: *Resends*
Rome: no
Hhahahahaha, hahahahaha, Looks like whity made up history again.
First: Roman was not white, so don’t boast about Rome makes yourself hap, and using full time Roma map vs founding of Han dynasty map? Yo man, before your Jesus was born, Xinjiang was already the territory of China. China was much bigger than this. Do your research first please or you did it on purpose?
China conquered Hun, Hun ran to the west, conquered German, then German conquered western Roma.
China conquered Turks, Turks ran to west, then Turk conquered eastern Roma.
So ya, to be honest, China had a lot of things to do, China didn’t pay much attention on Roma, they only knew some stupid country in the western was begging for some silks and ect ect.
Second: China calls Roma , only becuz Persia called Roma : Dasnia, by transliteration, it became daqin, it nothing about Roma is great.
Third: China always sees herself is the center of the world , everyone as barbarian, including Roma and whatever it is.
4th: About trade, China only knew some stupid country in the west was always crying for cheap silk here, it was the roman who kept wanting to trade with china, not China, please. Roma lost tons of gold to the eastern only because they want silk by itself, and most of gold were took by Persians.
In the end, I want to say
China conquered Hun, Hun ran to west, conquered German, then German ended western Roma.
China conquered Turks, Turks ran to west, then Turk ended eastern Roma.
China was sorry ended your western civilization, and force you went into dark mid age.
@@cookieblue7797 what are you talking about.. i just said that rome is not interested in china and that the persians dont want the two to be friends ._.
@@cookieblue7797 bait
@@cookieblue7797 Ok I think it's time to go to bed
@@cookieblue7797 ofc the hun is the past is the same hun now back then
China: oh my god rome is so great
Rome: oh my god I am so great
Basically, look who fell first.
The Earls Renegade China did, the Han dynasty formally fell in 220 and the Roman Empire ended in 1453
@@connorh2215 Han dynasty is only one of the dynasties that China empire had. Just like Roman empire had a lot of dynasties as well.
@@shengzhang4190 but rome's dynastys weren't that important, in China a simple trancission cost the lives of 25 million people.
Sheng Zhang China’s dynasties were basically new countries each time one changed as most of the time when the dynasties ended the country was fractured until a new power managed to come back and re unite the country, imagine if America fell apart every time the party changed and each time a new state reformed America
So in the end, the Han remained Solo?
Underappreciated joke
@@Apodeipnon Story of my life, bro.
Ok that was a nice one!
You are a legend bro
HA! XD looooool
I love how the Chinese broke out of the stereotype and admired Rome while the Roman's were like "not 100% Trojan descendant stoic conqueror? Sounds like a barbarian to me"
I do believe the Romans considered themselves both Trojan and Latin, because Aeneus CHADUS MAXIMUS married a Latin girl, not a Trojan women. Remember, Dovahhaty’s Unbiased History isn’t 100% historically accurate 😂
@@sushidope1701 I'm exaggerating for comedic effect. Although it clearly didn't work if you took it so literally.
@@hexa3389 It’s not really about that, I just said that so any people passing by your comment knew the reality and also to call you out on watching dovahhatty cuz I saw one of your comments in one of his videos about germanics restarting the Roman empire when they were the ones who killed it off. I thought it was funny
@@sushidope1701 And? His videos are entertaining and I watch them for entertainment. And when you're discussing fiction you are not dealing with history, but fiction. So in this context saying something that is historically invalid is ok as you're not talking about history, you're talking about fiction. Why people fail to understand this is beyond me.
Again, what I said was exaggerated in purpose of comedy, it was not a historically valid statement in purpose of education.
@@hexa3389 bruh, why are you being defensive to start with tbh
China: ah, my western equal. im a big fan of yo-
Rome: *barf*
Just like how britain viewed china.
edge lord Or how everyone viewed China as it seems
By the Ming dynasty China viewed the hole world as inferior to them, because they had their fat empire back and they were filthy rich.
@@HVLLOW99 china still is rich but not as powerful or big as they were before.
@@isnitjustkit actually japan, korea, and indo china bowed to them at one point.
Vietnam never was conquered.
“Many believe it was Rome fate to conquer China”
Third & Fourth Rome: Soon.
and yet, only one is left standing.
ahh can`t wait for fiFtH aND sIxTh rOmE
@@GaysianAmerican Well, Rome's legacy via it's culture, architecture, art & sciences, and writing system (which China uses before teaching children Hanzi), still survives, and though Rome itself as a country is no more, it's successor states here and doing well, and China itself has adopted many things from Rome's successors, like science and modern architecture, political ideas and art. And honestly, China itself is nothing but a successor state as well. The Han Dynasty is long gone, like Rome, but its legacy lives on, like Rome.
@Baldur no Moscow has the best claim
Who's the fourth rome?
China might've had more indirect influence on Rome than this video suggests. During the reign of Emperor Wu of Han (no he had nothing to do with the city of Wuhan), the Han Dynasty defeated the people of Xiongnu, as the Chinese called them. As a result, Southern Xiongnu submitted to his reign while Northern Xiongnu pushed West, away from Han, taking over numerous cities in Central Asia. It is speculated that the Xiongnu are likely the same people as the Huns from studies on the timeline of migration and genetic continuity (which is why in Mulan, they directly translated Xiongnu to Huns, the name Westerners are more familiar with). The Huns did not have a central government but raided European cities, including Roman cities, for loot, which may have stimulated the Great Migration that contributed to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
Mulan epic is originally about the war against the Rouran Khaganate if I'm not mistaken. The animation just changed it into the Huns as it's better known in the west
Apparently ancient Chinese pronunciation of xiongnu is more like Hong-nu soooooooo the Huns bounced off China and wreaked havoc on Europe ouch
yeah i studied ancient history in italian schools. I learned that Huns were one of the direct reasons for the fall of Western Acient Rome. They were fast on horse and pushed ostrogoths and visigoths west into Rome's territory. They invaded all the way to river of Po (close to Milan), and while residing there they drank infected river water and most likely decimated due to disease spread among warriors. It's unknown if any of them ever remained alive but they were very close but not close enough to reach Rome. Visigoths invaded Rome (Sack of Rome) not long after tho and Rome was pretty much officially done for.
@@bugraegebaydar9409 the ballad of mulan. The Xianbeis are steppe Nomad kingdom.
There were non-roman european cities?
History Matters: Answering the questions we didn't know we were asking
This is a common question
Professor Shibe up shut
I was wondering this lol.
James Bissonette has entered the chat
I have wonder it before
The one time in history I can think of China considering somebody equal, and they don't get the same respect back. Harsh.
mPky1 a war between both would have been a stalemate & immensely destructive
@@michaelweston409 Actually not really. While the Romans might have had an arguable technological advantage the Han could Soviet Union Meme right over them metaphorically and literally.*
Thats how they would treat...diplomatic relation. Good face, good smiles. Unless the said country turn out to be in conflict with china.
@@michaelweston409
Lets say no side copy tech from the other, only adapt their strategy.
So, the reason would be Arrows n cavalry.
With rome, their infantry is their backbone while their cavalry is a support. Archer isnt much.
With china, infantry the majority, cavalry is the elite, lots of archer. And they got stirrup too for their cav.
So, rome would bombard china with long range artillery, china would swamp over roman cavalry and harass the flank with their horse archer.
At any rate, rome got artillery units while china got better cavalry n archer.
BUt yeah, rome was larger. Too bad it fell apart.
Eleeth Tahgra I think Rome would have a advantage when it came to their walls. Romans had great engineering ability & could construct large unpregnible city walls that no invader could get past until the advent of gunpowder. The Chinese had superior archers. The Chinese had repeating hand held crossbows which they armed over a 100,000 of their own archers with. The repeating crossbow could fire almost like a mideval machine gun. They would darken the sky with arrows until no Roman was left.
The Han Empire called the Roman Empire "Daqin" which actually referred to the last Chinese Dynasty Qin. Qin is the first unified empire that illustrated the current-day Chinese border, but eventually was overthrown because of the bloody ruling style. Han succeeded Qin, and seeing the greatness of the Romans, they named it "Daqin" since it was as great as the last dynasty.
Actually the han dynasty happened after three other dynasties known as the Shang, song and the one that built the terracotta soldiers.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx but they aren’t unified empires, which op mentioned above
@@mypasswordisuod7f1kwjrvzx32 actually to be a ruling dynasty they were united as china's boarders have changed significantly over the ages. They are still dynasties of power but using united as a dying characteristic would be wrong.
The Qin were the great dynasty which they modeled themselves on so calling the intermediate dynasties between them an less important just because they lacked land would be ridiculous.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx Its the (likely mythical) Xia, then Shang, the Zhou, then Qin. Only the Qin unified what is no called China proper (so not tibet or sinkiang), therefore is called the "First Chinese Empire".
I love stuff like this. The Indo Greeks existed at the same time and the Chinese were trying to open up relations with them too.
@Somali Kid Hell yeah. Such underrated Kingdoms.
Ah, yeah, Da-Yuan (Great(er) Ionia) actually was conquered by the Chinese, because they liked their horses, these horses were the only thing that could actively fight against the Xiongnu.
@@-haclong2366 I thought the Greco Bactrians were known as Daxians, and were conquered by the Yuezhi.
Everybody needs some heavenly horses
Pour one out for the Greco-Buddhists.
There are a few interesting videos I've seen that are readings of a Chinese scholar's opinions on Rome. You can tell they had lots of respect for the Romans and understood their culture quite well for it being so alien to them.
Where can I find this videos?
Romans and Chinese have a lot of similarities in attatudes and some cultural practices. Hell even today doing buisness in modern China is very similar to how the Romans did buisness.
@@ABUBBA22现代中国人的确很尊重古罗马，并为1453年罗马帝国的灭亡感到惋惜。在现代中国人的眼里，美国日本俄国再强大，也得不到中国人心底里的尊敬。中国人只尊重跟他们一样悠久的文明古国，比如伊朗。
This actually speaks a lot for how the "known world" was defined by the barrier of great distances. Communication of any kind was difficult at best. So with the two empires a world away, and most middle-men NOT wanting Rome involved, it was unlikely they'd ever have relations besides adventurous traders.
I can imagine it was like another planet during these times. How do people come in to be able to communicate and come up with translation in the first place?
@@mosswine5417 well, "other languages" would not have been an unheard of concept. One as different as Chinese would have been a VERY special case though. But we're talking the best linguists on both sides establishing some form of interpreters, probably more among the Chinese than the glass-house Romans.
The Parthian Empire had had long and bloody wars with Rome. Thus the Parthians (i.e. Persians) were not too keen on anyone making alliances with Rome. This random envoy from Han China alarmed them, so Parthian authorities sought to confuse him enough to send him back to China. I bet this Chinese envoy would've made it all the way to Rome if the Parthian Empire hadn't existed to "poison the well" so to speak...
@@pdruiz2005 It is completely fake. If you can calm down and look at the archaeological process of China and Italy, the comparison of cultural relics will show how big your lie is. Ancient Rome had no civilization, it was forged later
*Chinese diplomat:* so hey about Rome how about I g-
*Persia:* _no_
*Persia:* Believe me dude, it's for your own good that you don't go to Rome...
@@biliminsrlar5752 wait you guys actually fought persia? I thought the byzantines were greek
@Bilimin Sırları Turks evolves into Ottoman Empire: *Sieges Constantinople, Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) falls, Roman civilization ends*
Turks looking at Romans, Persians and the Chinese: Ya'll are cute
@@biliminsrlar5752 Keyboard master?
@@supernt7852
Also Turks: *Takes over South Asia and form Mughal empire and form timirud empire in middle..*
A "did the aztecs and incas know about each other?" Would be pretty cool
No, they did not know of each other.
Yes they did. They traded frequently.
Michael Weston I've read they did not trade with each other - chiles in Peru and no potatoes in Mexico, for example.
There weren't any kingdom between both to trade and the juggles were very hard to travel
Yes they did and trade among the two regions was common if not direct.
China: Finally! A worthy opponent, our battle will be legendary!
Rome: Omg another barbarian tribe
Hhahahahaha, hahahahaha, Looks like whity made up history again.
First: Roman was not white, so don’t boast about Rome makes yourself hap, and using full time Roma map vs founding of Han dynasty map? Yo man, before your Jesus was born, Xinjiang was already the territory of China. China was much bigger than this. Do your research first please or you did it on purpose?
China conquered Hun, Hun ran to the west, conquered German, then German conquered western Roma.
China conquered Turks, Turks ran to west, then Turk conquered eastern Roma.
So ya, to be honest, China had a lot of things to do, China didn’t pay much attention on Roma, they only knew some stupid country in the western was begging for some silks and ect ect.
Second: China calls Roma , only becuz Persia called Roma : Dasnia, by transliteration, it became daqin, it nothing about Roma is great.
Third: China always sees herself is the center of the world , everyone as barbarian, including Roma and whatever it is.
4th: About trade, China only knew some stupid country in the west was always crying for cheap silk here, it was the roman who kept wanting to trade with china, not China, please. Roma lost tons of gold to the eastern only because they want silk by itself, and most of gold were took by Persians.
In the end, I want to say
China conquered Hun, Hun ran to west, conquered German, then German ended western Roma.
China conquered Turks, Turks ran to west, then Turk ended eastern Roma.
China was sorry ended your western civilization, and force you went into dark mid age.
LMFAO I see boonch of British are very hap and don’t realize that they were the real bar /barian/s to the Rome XD
rome wasn't white read your facts germanic brbr
@@cookieblue7797 i cant find the brit comment u were replying too.
@@cookieblue7797 you need to stop getting off your meds, you are speaking in tongues
China: Rome is an empire equal to our own, in both riches and land!
Rome: Ew, foreigner!
@Andrew Smith I mean, Rome is still better than China will ever be.
@Andrew SmithYou cant make those conclusions. The political rule of china was overthrown, conquered and transformed many times. As others has said its not the same state that survived to today. Its just the name of the country still in use. Its like saying the ottomans still lives because there is a Turkey. Or France and the franks...
@Andrew Smith True but Rome heavily influenced the peoples that they ruled over so even after Rome's fall, their cultures bore their influence plus they revered the memory of Rome and sought to be like them and they'd go on to become strong nations that formed great empires that outdid all non-European nations.
Today, Western civilization can be regarded as the heir to Rome and has achieved a level of dominance over the world that the Romans could only have dreamed of.
Of course, China's continued survival through numerous dynasties and times of upheaval is remarkable and once again, China is one of the world's major powers despite its problems and crappy government. It's odd though that despite everything that's happened since the time of Rome, we end up with China and the West as two opposing powers facing off against each other and having poor relations.
Andrew Smith actually the nation itself is not the same as the China of old, you could argue that the culture is the same, but that’s just like the Roman Empire, all of Western Europe is it’s descendants, so ask yourself, staying a National identity for thousands of years, or an entire continents national identity coming from Rome, and technically Rome still exists as Italy anyways
@@klol3369 yes, you can say that Rome still alive in Italy, but today Rome is much much weaker than his ancient era, while China is much much powerful than before included territory is much extended, try to compare to Rome, that is the main difference
The Chinese were interested in Western wine, btw. There is a record of a man in Eastern Han who managed to become a provincial official after 'gifting' wine to his superior.
Let me guess. Sima Yi?
@@takarifan No, his name was Meng Tuo, the superior in question was Zhang Rang, one of the Ten Attendants eunuchs, and the account is from The Book of the Later Han.
Both empires also considered themselves to be the center of the world, showed by naming conventions. Mediterranean means middle of the earth, and 中国, or ZhongGuo, means middle kingdom.
Actually, 中國 is the shorthand form for 中華人民共和國，which means People's Republic of China. The name 中國 wasn't invented until 1911 when Republic of China was established.
Werrll ... Mediterranean DOES sort of mean "in the middle of the Earth," but Many other peoples lived along its shores, not just the Romans. The sea got its Latin name very early on, long before the Roman Empire came into existence, and if it belonged to anyone, it would have been the Greeks and the Carthaginians. Do you have any more convincing arguments?
@@DieFlabbergast different nations lived on the shores of the Mediterranean until Rome conquered it, so OP is still kind of correct.
Mediterranean is the name of the SEA that is encircled by land ergo its name. It has nothing to do with being the center of the world
@@sharon_ng Usage of the name 中國 can be dated back very long however it is not used as a name for a country but rather a general term for a region, similar to 中原, which means central plains.
You ever had a one-sided friendship, where one person likes the other a great deal more than they like them?
yeah this is it but geographically.
sigh. can relate.
and then there's the common frenemy who wants to keep the status quo
It's a long distance repationship too
Gay
relatable, these kinds of friendships unfortunately can't last
Bro, i was just playing Three Kingdoms and saw the Roman Trade upgrade... friggin eerie
Woe
As an Italian I can say that the word Serica also in today's Italian means "made with silk" , and this is because the Chinese people were called "Seri" by the Romans
Nice detail. Thanks.
China: I think about you a lot
Ireland: Quite down over there
Kingdom of Ghana: yo you guys want some good shit?
Correction!
China: I think about you alot!
Rome: I think about ravaging your land, and salting your fields. Killing your elderly, and taking your valuables. I think about conquering your land, and enslaving your women! I will conquer you. Like how I conquered the Carthagens, the Celts, and the natives of the Bulgarians! That is what I THINK ABOUT!
China: You sound so cute.
why you westerners think China was thinking about you ? That's disgusting .
@Julio Argentino Roca well, history proved itself, arrogant Rome eliminated while China still thriving
China: Hey how are you doing
Rome: S E R I C A D E L E N D A E S T
Someone has been watching to much dovahatty
Is that a bad thing?
@@noodlecoffee193 if you dislike humor, yes.
And then the Roman empire got deleted.
@@marcus4046 *angry Han noises*
The easternmost extent of the Roman Empire and the westernmost extent of the Han Dynasty were at least 2800 miles apart, straight line distance, and probably more than 3500 miles by the shortest land routes. That means it would probably take a minimum of a full year for a traveler to traverse not only very daunting mountains and deserts, but also be in constant danger of bandits along the way. Not surprising contact between the two empires were slight.
I love the idea of people in Rome believing it was their destiny to one day conquer "Serica". The collapse of civilization very often seems unthinkable to those who live within it, and depending on the time period there would be no reason to assume that society would become more fragmented and less unified over time. It's a glimpse into ancient thinking, kind of like that story about the Gaulish envoys telling Alexander that the thing they feared most was the sky falling on top of them. It's charming in a grotesque way lol
Romans actually did believe in collapse of civilisations and that eventually all would fall. That’s why to them it was their destiny to conquer Serica. It’s the destiny of all empires eventually to fall (and they would fall by conquests and not complex economic reasons). And so then would be only be natural that only strongest empire of the would be able to defeat the second strongest one in the East. And Rome was the strongest! They didn’t assume they could fall if there was not much stronger empire around to defeat them directly. Although fracturing of empire in many civil wars was a concern.
2:18
"Hello there"
*"General Chinobi!!"*
*"You are a bold one"*
China: I love you!
Rome: I love myself too
The Han Dynasty got angry, then sent gifts to Rome, Huns, and then destroyed Rome
'Did the Romans ever meet the Chinese? Or any far eastern peoples?'
"They were aware of each other, like you are aware that the clothes you are wearing right now were made in some East Asian shithole. But since it's so far away, you don't really give much of a shit. That was the general vibe." - Dovahhatty
Ah yes, Dovahhatty, my favourite unbiased TH-cam historian
@@AlexanderDiviFilius
:)
Ahhh I see you are a person with patrician taste as well
Aggressive Tubesock low iq bait
Aggressive Tubesock I’m sure he’s very concerned what you think of him
Friend of mine is a huge Asian history buff and speaks a bit of mandarin, he told me a while ago that Daqin meant "Great China" in the same sense as the "Great Wall" i.e. that it's very big. His completely believable and _freaking hilarious_ explanation for this is that Han China, viewing themselves as the center of the known universe, made a habit of referring to other regions/nations as "___ China" with the blank space being filled with whatever adjective most clearly differentiated that region from their own territory. They couldn't pick a geographic descriptor (Rome covered a diverse array of topograpgies and climates over three continents) but they also couldn't call them "rich China" and imply that the Han empire itself was poor, so they went "fuck it, they've got a lot of land, they're BIG China." because size is not necessarily a value judgment.
the modern name of China "Zhong Guo" literally means "Central Country", because they believed they were the center of the world. I don't think whoever came up with these names were very original with naming stuff. "As long it sounds important" I guess is their logic lol.
@@SuperLol To be fair, I think any empire that gets big enough just runs out of names. Just look at the number of places in Canada and America that are basically just named "New [English place]"
@@alessandragonzales8190 Nah that's fair. I think it's more depending on how modern people use it, it can get pretentious sometimes. And that is ofc the same with many things in the West too.
That's not true. The Qin Dynasty was the ruling dynasty before Han, and the Han China called themselves Da Han (Great Han). So Da Qin means that Han saw Rome as an equal empire, not a greater one.
That might be possible, but seems unlikely to me. At the time, China referred to itself as "Great Han," while "Qin" was seen as its predecessor state. Even today in Chinese history, the Qin dynasty is seen as hugely important and the root of the Chinese dynastic legacy, so to use "Qin" to refer to Rome would imply at the very least an acknowledgement of Rome as a heritage rivaling that of China.
1:55 Imagine being most of the way to the Roman Empire only to be convinced to turn around after years of travel.
It's even worse than the video makes it out. The Persians told him it'd be another 3 years travel to get to Rome.
It was actually just a few more months to get to Antioch, where you could just take one of the regularly-departing boats to Rome.
@@richtersundeen6105 Sneaky Parthians
Interesting comparing these two amazing empires.
I like the mongol china more.
@@edgelord8337 I like the Mongol Europe better.
I like the Mongol galaxy more, oh wait sorry I’m too early
@@davidthewhale7556 mongol universe is better.
@@ls200076 lol.
Just wait until Britannia finds out about tea.
and the opium 😅
Irelevant comment
@@vladescu3g with a relevant history
Tbf the Chinese technically stole horses from Europe
@@eurasiaacaci.-110 wtf are you saying?
China: “hey Rome wanna be frie-“
Persia: “don’t worry Rome everything is fine!”
would love more "what did this historic people know about X" videos
Would love more historic Xvideos
Check out the channel Voices of the Past
@@the135joker3 *Hehehehe*
There's just so many huge blank spots in Western historiography that channels like this could easily fill instead of focusing on the well familiar. I mean, fine, we may be getting more and more details of the twentieth century but wouldn't it be a bit cooler to find out at least _something_ about, say, Egypt in the hugeass period spanning between Cleopatra and the British rule? The Mameluk reign over Egypt is something that has no close equivalent in Western history and would make for more than one great video. Or hell, what was happening in the Middle East during the Napoleonic Wars? The Saudis and Wahhabis were trying to take over the entire Arabian peninsula, that's what. Another fantastic topic for discussion.
China called them "Great China" and Rome still hated them. Oh Rome.
Mitchell Blake basically how white people think
@@michaelweston409 Romans hated other white people more than they hated China. (Germanic and Celtic tribes).
@@randomname5083 The Ancient Romans considered the Germanic tribes barbarians. Now their descendants, the Anglo-Saxons, along with Celtic cohorts like the Welsh and Scots, are running the world and English is the lingua franca that replaced Latin.
@@brianplum1825 then again, english is like 60% latin lol
@@kukifitte7357 That's dumb as hell if I may be blunt. English belongs in the Germanic language branch while Latin is in the Romance branch. Both belong to the Indo-European family but share nothing close to 60% in neither grammar nor vocabulary.
The video is intended to be short so I woudn't expect it to mention every little detail, but I think I remember learning in one of my classes that despite their unenthusiastic attitude to China, the Romans did briefly consider the possibility of establishing an alliance with them in the hopes that China would attack and distract Persia from the other side and facilitate Roman conquest. Apart from the communication troubles, though, I believe Rome lost interest when rising internal struggles rendered the prospect of conquering Persia much less of a realistic priority.
Gan Ying might have also failed because he had trouble communicating with the traders/sailors he was asking about travel to Rome. He apparently was trying to get there by sea and so traders told him it would take years while they sailed around Arabia. He might have continued on if he knew there was a land border with Parthia a relatively short distance away
One random fact I know is that a Chinese emissary did make it to Constantinople during 8th century, at the same time an Anglo-Saxon Bishop was also visiting the city. I wonder if they ever met.
Gan Ying actually got pretty close to the eastern provinces of Rome. Had they just kept heading east a bit more they would have reach it in a few weeks but the Persians, fearing a Rome-Han alliance told Gan it would take many more years to reach Rome in an attempt to dissuade the Han.
China: Wow Rome you are so impressive! We admire you!
Rome: Cringe barbarian
Puty barbarian
No Rome
Does the other china sound like admire to you? They respect them at best
LMFAO I see boonch of British are very hap and don’t realize that they were the real bar /barian/s to the Rome XD
Love these more obscure topics that you don’t know you need to know about until you see the video.
I love this channel for being fun and keeping things short.
China: "Oh cool, another great empire! We should be buddies and take lands from Parthia. :)"
Rome: "It is your destiny to be but one of our many conquests."
China: "...not cool, man. I was nice and everything. :("
@Julio Argentino Roca well played, well played.
I doubt it! Rome was never serious in its attempts to conquer Parthia let alone China !!
The Han Dynasty was built on opposing the Qin Dynasty, and the Qin Dynasty was not a good word. And if it really regards the other side as an equal opponent, it should also call the other side the center of civilization. However, in the Han Dynasty, "Han" was the center, and the other "Chu", "Qin" and "Qi" were just its vassals. So the Han Dynasty actually regarded Rome as its potential vassal state.
This was more than I was expecting, actually. I figured most of the trading was done through third parties, and they didn't care too much about the origins of the goods being sold. Actually knowing about each other to the point of having a name for each other is fascinating.
Alexander the Great went as far as India, but that's pretty much the end of it. I assumed the Romans didn't think there was much beyond the Ganges, at least early on.
I figured China knew more though, and I've read there were a few points where Chinese explorers almost reached Roman territory.
This is a pretty west-centric view. From a east-centric view the reason Rome is called "Daqin" is a reference to the first unifying dynasty in China, the Qin Regime. Rome shared a lot of great similarities to Qin in terms of unification smaller surrounding regions, law, nation identity, centrality of government, etc. Hence the respect and understanding despite the distance.
As usual.
@MeteoricDec I don't understand your reasoning can you explain further.
For both sides he did not go into the reason for both empires to respect/distain the other.
So to me it means that there is neither West nor East centric point of view to the other because that was left out in order to make a nice short video
How is it west-centric? He talked about both in detail for the short duration of the video. Can't mention every detail in 3 minutes
Given that the audience is, per TH-cam design, mostly western, it makes complete sense.
No this is incorrect. China did not call other empires “big China” “small China”. Foreign empires are formally named phonetically. It is a series of phonetic corruptions and mistranslations across geography and time that caused Chinese transliteration of “Latin” to sound like “Da Qin” which just happened to be the name of a major dynasty, but it is not named so because China thought it was its equal. On that basis, China would’ve given it the name of Han, not Qin.
Of course, this is just a theory, but there’s no confirmation on why China called Rome “Da Qin”
Now imagine if the Han diplomatic mission had reached Rome.
Carter Kinoy nothing serious would have happened. Both were separated by so much distance that it didn’t matter. Mountains, deserts, seas.
Two possibilities.
1. The persian was right and he would be killed.
2. The romans was quite sensible that they would exchange some sort of diplomatic contact and thats about it. Gift exchange (we are talking about lots of goods here) and formal visit would be too difficult due to distance and security. I mean the persian would not allow even 100 roman soldiers pass through their border. Same with han's neighbours.
@@eleethtahgra7182 The Persians and Arabs and Turks wanted to remain the middle men in the lucrative trade between East Asia and Europe. They succeeded for 1500 years and drove Columbus to try sailing west in order to reach Asia.
I imagine the Chinese would have showered the Romans with praise and gifts, gasping in awe at everything they saw, weeping tears of joy at the dawn of a great new era of contact between two civilisations of immense power and glory. The Romans, meanwhile, would entertain their guests cordially, but would see their visit as nothing more than an opportunity to gain information about a potentially threatening foreign land. They would try to manipulate them, bribe them, get them drunk, anything to get them talking freely.
It is quite possible they might simply torture them for information and kill them - I can see the Romans cynically thinking it better they never return home, as then Rome has had the advantage of contact, but not China. China could be idealistic and hopeful, whereas Rome was more pragmatic and ruthless.
Of course if the Romans knew just how far away China was, and how many tribes, nations and geographical barriers were between them, they would realise China was not a threat and not a practical trade or military partner either, and therefore have little interest in such contact with them aside from the sheer novelty of it.
@anonymous opinions You're incorrect for the most part. Columbus was neither indifferent nor ignorant of China. It was his goal. South Asia was a destination in addition to China -- not instead of China.
When it comes to ancient cross-cultural ideas, I've always been intrigued by the idea of Greco-Buddhism.
Ditto
it's mostly a seleucid thing
Supposedly, Alexander the Great brought back a lot of philosophical ideas from India, but that was long before Buddhism.
@@Flight_of_Icarus both occurred in the 5th century B.C. in fact if I remember correctly the whole Greco-Roman budism thing a a fascinating but fringe example of this cultural exchange. Would love to see if any Indians converted to hellenism.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx alexander founded several hellenic kingdoms in central asia in what is now azerbaijan and the countries around there which endured for centuries so the answer to your question is yes. these areas still have legends about alexander, as portrayed in the film "the man who would be king".
China: remember those times, Italy?
Italy: good times. Too bad we didn't get to know each other closely back then!
Iran, *chuckling in the corner* : too bad
being an iranian, watching this video and hearing "barbarian neighbours!" (and the look on that character's face. LOL!) Hilarious
Forget these guys . You know the truth and that enough
China: Hey Rome, I find you as an equal-
Rome: *NO*
China: What's the matter, I just want to make friends with-
Persia: *NO*
China: :((
The Han Dynasty got angry, then sent gifts to Rome, Huns, and then destroyed Rome
China: "I respect your culture."
Rome: "I respect my culture too."
The Han Dynasty got angry, then sent gifts to Rome, Huns, and then destroyed Rome
Roman Empire: *collapses*
China who fought a million civil wars: Hey, I've seen this one!
*Rome cries*
China: "First time?"
I mean, Rome was plagued by so many civil wars that it's not even a joke to say that they were a Civil War Empire for most of their existence, especially after the West fell.
@Silver Chariot are you just straight up making up history? Mongol didn’t happen much much later? Also mongol didn’t destroy or change the culture of China at all.
@@eyyze yeah but Chinese civil wars are ridiculous. Especially the one where 1/6 the human race died
@@papercat2599 Black Box is right, look up Five Barbarians. After Three Kingdoms wars and short unification under Jin, there was another civil war of Eight Princes followed by barbarian invasions, most capitals were taken by foreign invaders: Western Jin collapsed in 316 and Eastern in 420, beginning the era of Northern and Southern dynasties. I.e not a united China. Parallels to Byzantine and all.
Thank you for so brilliantly answering a question I would never have thought to ask!! This channel is great!
China: "I heard they conquered half of the world, they are the greatest warriors that the world has ever seen"
Persia: "Rome?"
China: "So that is their name, "Rome".....Finally! a worthy Opponent! OUR BATLLE WILL BE LEGENDARY!!"
Rome: "I dont even know who you are"
Oh, they knew, they just thought they were filthy barbarians
kung fu panda? XD
@@julianscheu8735 FINALLY! A worthy Opponent!
@@YG-eu4df you worthily opponent
But in the end China defeated the Huns and drove them to the West, and the Huns who fled to the West led to the demise of Rome.
2:16 China: "Hello there"
Rome: "General Kenobi"
Ancient China being friendzoned by Ancient Rome is probably the saddest thing I’ll ever hear.
Doesn't make sense since they were trying to be friendzoned but weren't.
In 2nd century China had a war with casualties Europe won't see until World War 2. I don't think they cared about Rome when kidnapping emperors, burning the capital, and starving to cannibalism.
Imagine if they actually started sharing cultures between each other, that'd be so cool
Lol you are everywhere
@@aniime6463 I have no life, that’s why
ROMAN EMPIRE: NO!
We’d probably be throwing in some mandarin around with our english right now
@@ryanmcclure8868
There probably wouldn't be any english
I have been waiting to watch this video for SO LONG. About a year.
Finally, I get to learn that Rome and China didn't really know each other, but knew of each other.
Any chance at an episode on the Soviet-Afghan war? It's a conflict I've been wanting to learn more about and I'd be interested to see your take on it
China: This guy trades with me and also is an empire, he must be a great empire
Rome: This guy trades with me and also is an empire, i must be a great empire
The Han Dynasty got angry, then sent gifts to Rome, Huns, and then destroyed Rome
Roman: I want to try some of that Chinese food but we have no direct contact with them.
ancient uber eats: allow us to introduce ourselves
In fact GUAN YING asked the Persia how to get to Roma. Persian emperor answered, you can only take the boat, and mostly die on the sea, and also it is very far away, could take years.
I did my undergraduate thesis on the Silk Road and focused on how cultural exchange manifested through art. Even if China and Rome never had any direct contact, the sheer volume of symbols, motifs, and materials in each of their arts - as well as in the cultures between them - testify to the economic and cultural importance of trade contacts.
"So are you two friends?"
China: "Yes."
Rome: "No."
They had records of Chinese ambassadors making it to the Roman Court.
Even Gibbon found that much out.
It wouldn't take years to Travel. They went by boat catching the monsoon winds in the Indian Ocean.
This was yearly trade. And is why Egypt, being the port of entry was so significant.
You left out the Ganges Empire of India.
I guess that it wasn't be very difficult going from China to Rome 'coz the Silk Road was already stablished. What made it hard was that the Parthian Empire was there standing and they didn't want anyone crossing their nation.
@@tutorialesminecraft8930
Yeah they did,
They just had to be okayed.
Which merchants don't like...
The topic of the video was always something in the back of my mind, but I didn't care enough to research it.
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting!
If they ever met and made an alliance, it'd be the greatest crossover in history
Daqin is literally spells the Great Qin in Chinese, which is the predecessor of the Han dynasty.. not to mention Qin dynasty’s official name is just “Qin”. Chinese empires are named after the geographical region where the first emperor rose to power. The practice of adding the world Great isn’t a thing until the Yuan dynasty b/c Mongols had no title. I guess I wouldn’t expect shorts like this to be accurate, but making things up or cite Wikipedia isn’t an option either..
Fantastic info and you get straight to the point!!! So often I see a hot historical topic in the mix but it's 10, 30, 90 minutes long.
There is a strong suspicion that Gan Ying at 1:40 actually lied about the Persians telling him not to go further. He was clearly homesick, so when he reached the Persian Gulf coast/the Mediterranean Sea coast people along his travels told him he had thousands of miles left to go before reaching the city of Rome. Upon realizing this, he called it quits. So he made up the whole story of the Persians telling him not to go further. It's not like he was going to get punished for lying--how would the Chinese emperor ever find out? So he went back home on the back of that lie.
I've just found your channel and I kinda love it great topics in mostly ten minutes or less
Rome greatly underestimated China. China at that time was the same as rome or even stronger. China had an organised society. Their own rich culture and tradition. They has a large population (much more than those romans).
The romans thought they could one day conqure and destroy China! How insane!
Rome greatly underestimated everything
They should’ve been worried about the barbarians they were employing…
I thought roman empire and Han dynasties have equal populations or roughly equal populations?
The Romans had a huge superiority complex, which was partly their downfall. But the Chinese would also greatly underestimate the West, hence the Century of Humiliation in China
I like how Rome is resented on the thumbnail by a soldier, while China is represented by a bureaucrat
Thanks for your great video much appreciated your efforts
Some things never change i guess.
China has been doing trade wars with western civilizations (or the other way around) for 2000 years.
Egypt is always the Nile and a few extra miles either side.
Russia is always in search of warm water ports.
Germany is either extremely strong or extremely weak, never in between.
So basically Alexander the Great and Diogenes dynamic lmao.
China: "If I were not China I would want to be Rome."
Rome: "If I were not Rome I would want to be Rome."
0:38 you are actually wrong here, daqin doesn't actually mean great China in this case, qin is indeed the name of the previous dynasty, but its most likely doesn't have anything to do with the previous dynasty. regardless, the chinese definitely didn't see the romans as equal, after han wudi (which is the period when china official started to have contact with the western world) the chinese sees themselves as the center of the world, and the rest of the world are basically barbarians including the romans
Seems like USA in 2023 lol
Lol at 1:05 dude has a glass bowl on his head, other dude says "so rich" lol. Had me dying. Subtle humor. Maybe this is why 3 out of my 4 or 5 fav youtube channels are british guys telling me stuff. Subtle humor and a voice like a madman's lullaby unlike my own America with some cowboy shoving jokes in your face
so you thought you could trade with us swerican
I am not serican I am a Han
oh a Ham
no Han
"centurion strikes him very roughly"
Your father was a woman?
@@Alaryk111 no a Roman
And now for something completely different.
Oh I remember this sketch 😂😂😂, the one with Biggus Dickus
*he stabs him*
This sounds like a love story that everyone can relate to
Small inconsistency here. I liked this summary of Rome / Han views. But the Han China map shown is not its greatest extent like the Rome Map is shown. Many of the territories in the West along the silk road is not included here.
Not mentioned in this video are the various Chinese writings of the Han period that mention or describe Rome, and once read are clearly based on hearsay and traders' tales. Probably the most famous (and trustworthy) of these old writings comes from the historian Yu Huan, who detailed as much as he could about everything the Han knew about the world outside their borders.
I love your channel keep up the great stuff!!!!!
Even though this channel is supposed to be a guide for studying history it is still very fun and humorous to watch
China: we're not so different, you and I
Rome: *screams*
Sun Tzu: Be friend with your enemy's neighbor to surround your enemy.
Han and Rome: copy that
China: OMG Rome I love you.
Rome: OMG same I love myself too.
Romans in the 6th century, under the rule of Justinian the Great, carried out one of the most lucrative trade espionage missions in history. Two monks and their entourage were dispatched by Justinian to China, as a sort of informal embassy, but their real task was to uncover the secret of silk production and to bring said knowledge back to the Empire. The mission went better than anyone dared to hope, and the monks actually managed to smuggle a silkworm back to Constantinople (a feat in and of itself considering how fragile the creature is, made even more problematic by the fact the Chinese would have executed them if they were caught, since anything pertaining to how silk was produced was a closely guarded state secret). Soon, silk production was set up in Constantinople, Antioch, and other larger cities of the Roman Empire, and it was so lucrative that the Emperor declared it a state monopoly. Roman silk was of inferior quality compared to the Chinese product, hence why the need for Chinese silk still remained, but it nevertheless made the Romans tons of cash.
nice opinion
2:17
General Cao Cao! You are a bold one!
Rome: "Our morality system says he must reject luxuries."
Also Rome: Lives in expansive palaces filled with so many amenities that they are literally called the treasure country by a nation on the other side of the world.
When in mid 19th century a British delegation entered the imperial court they we're greeted in Latin, because the Chinese had maintained the language in case the Romans sought contact again.
thats quite funny, i can imagine the british diplomats arriving and being greeted with "ave". must have been quite surprising for them
China is already in contact with expanding Russia at the time and they communicated in Latin. For example, the Treaty of Nerchinsk of 1689 was in Latin.
There were Jesuit missionaries in Beijing since 17th century, during Ming Dinasty, and the Chinese court was aware that Latin was a diplomatic language in Europe during the Modern Ages. It had no direct connection to ancient Rome, but with Papal and later, different European nations who sent envoys in 18th century (see the extremely good collection of mechanical clocks inside the Forbidden City; it was a very sought diplomatic gift in the 1700s). The British always like to think they're the first to arrive to places.