I always imagine the Mesa Boogie engineering department to be located under a volcano and filled with echos of maniacal laughter. Good Lord. I’m glad I’m too dumb to work on Mesa amps.
WORKING ON MESA PRODUCTS ACTUALLY MAKES YOU DUMBER! I had to replace a 20 cent unobtainium 1/2x1/4 inch keyboard switch on a piece of ultra high end, USBS US Govt' Certified to > +/- 0.02% tolerance $40,000 1980s test equipment. I went into it like I was going into a Mesa Engineering product. I took apart about 1800% too much stuff. It is a lot more like taking down a desktop computer's tower to replace the mother board, CPU, RAM, graphics card, sound card, PCI cards and drives. It makes me hate Mesa even more than I did before, and it despite my doubts that I could hate them more, it just happened. I still have no clue how to access some of the screws I see the wrongs ends of, but I don't need to find out how to get to them. It was pulls some board like pulling PCI cards unplug some things a few screws and the main board opens like a door. EPIC GOOD DESIGN! Mesa is the exact opposite of that.
@@Satchmoeddienow imagine I can't even find a tech who knows how to look inside a stupid jcm800 2203 horizontal inputs (the one with the even easier to access pcb, holding just on the knobs)
When you say "boring", I realized that I like boring, tech content. For me it's about the learning experience. As a holiest tech, it is a helpful learning experience. My .02.
Great job tracing that out. I have a Mesa Mark2b. I have done some repairs here and there and even recapped it. But there is no way I'm going near the circuit board. And it is nowhere near as bad as this thing. This amp tries to do too much. I'm now convinced it's better to get amps that do a single thing well.
It'll be interesting to see how all the Neural DSP stuff plays out over time. IMO, that setup ( add a $250 FRFR ) sets an upper limit on what I'd spend on an amp now. I've had a Headrush FRFR as a floor monitor and it worked amazingly well. However, all digital stuff fails sooner or later...
@@arkybeagle6159 The Kemper stuff is amazing. If I were making money touring, I would just use a Kemper. If it breaks, you go buy another one. Get your presets programmed plug it straight into the house PA, put your in ear monitors into your ears and yer done. F'k all to the set up cabs & heads & micing your cabs, & latency delay for mixing the mic'ed cabs with the DI signals and all that other BS. Push, pull, click, click, plug n play baby. I have fixed Line 6 stuff and it kinda sucks, but it's good enuff for playing the tavern scene.
i just sold my copy of this amp out of fear that I wouldn't play it enough and in 10-15 years it would need an expensive repair. But I have to say, these are fantastic amps as long as people realize they're mesa and they don't have three channels "fender, marshall and mesa". they have separate mesa channels and all sound good. There's a large group of people out there who believe every amp company first has to make fender and marshall channels and then can make their own if they perfect those two. My fear may be irrational - the one I had was probably four years old, not a single unwanted noise anywhere, very quite and could sound huge for such a small amp if one read the manual. My other fear - complicated older amps don't resell well. I have seen freshly serviced and repaired JVM410H's for around $1000.
I feel that Mesa has brilliant circuit design, no complaints there. Yes they’re very complex but that’s the nature of a wildly capable amp. Their Mark amps give you 25 settings in the hope you’ll find 3 you love and I’ve been very happy with that concept as a player. Physical assembly is another story. Good designers (of anything) consider maintenance and repair in their design, and Mesa could do much better considering the complexity of their designs. Complex demands a higher degree of reliability, and repairability, than simple - all else equal. They’re dropping that ball a bit too often.
I don’t mind the maximalist spirit but they ought to make these easily repairable for what they cost. Everything sure is crammed in there. As for me, I’m just a weekend warrior, but give me a simple amp that a tech can get into and service easily, and I’ll get any sound I could ever need with pedals.
The "Mini" Cooper (BMW not the original) of amps? (...a car that looks like it should be well under 3000 lbs but is closer to 2 tons...look under the hood sometime) I'm just thankful it's still thru-hole and that Mesa stock replacement parts.
Good systematic approach to troubleshooting-isolating the fault to a particular system. I believe to work on Mesas a person has to understand on a gut level how they do things, but the repair techs in Petaluma are probably all alcoholics by now. It's kinda like a friend of mine worked for Mazda back in Wankel days and the big secret was the heap of dead rotaries back behind the warehouse. They've probably got a mound of junkers at the Mesa Tool and Die Works And Sewer Repair. My experience with a Mark Five:25 was not a happy one. When the owner decided to send it back to Mesa it was like getting out of prison for me. Only the third time I bailed in twelve years and two were back to back Mesas. It also occurs to me that on this particular model they are trying to cram everything that a full size Mesa has on real estate that's half the size. Twenty one relays? Why? This has just as much stuff on the board as the Mark III I worked on a month or so ago and the components are all just as large.
Are the tube sockets soldered to the PCB board or the chassis? Do these amps have any more frequent issues than other boutique makers that have multiple channels/modes?
A cheeseburger sounds good right now! This repair was very well done. Mesa amps are unnecessarily overbuilt, and made to stay that way. It looks like a motherboard threw up in a box. I can't imagine the pride you must feel after conquering this issue.
I've got a 5;25 express head. The one without the graphic eq. I was thinking the other day that its probably about time that thing takes a shit now that the warranty is up. Ive built and repaired amps for years but you couldn't get me inside anything that says Mesa or Boogie.
Can't help but thinking some of the reliability issues are caused by components being jammed too close together, and a more spacious chassis might help. Using underated caps and resistors is unforgivable tho.
JFETs are sensitive to static discharge and do not always fail catastrophically immediately. I reckon Mesa employ a hairy arsed 'tech' to solder in the carefully damaged JFETs at his kitchen table, so the amp will fail just out of warranty. Well done for getting it going.
I had to send in my Mk V 35 after it began producing muffled tones after using a Fuzz pedal, to which the only thing that fixed it was replacing the v1 preamp tube. Yeah, I can't do that every time I want to use the pedal so I sent it in to Mesa for repair. 6 MONTHS LATER and no update. I called and asked what the status was, and they said the amp somehow got misplaced but they found it and will begin the repair. *sigh* I finally get the amp back and studied the invoice. It stated that they replaced the "Capt Tant 2.2uF 35V 10%" I'm assuming this is a component that they don't rate properly. Anyways, after the debacle with both the amp and their repair service, I'm selling this thing to avoid whatever surprises it has for me if I decide to play it again with a pedal.
I've been waiting for someone to open up one of these suckers, I almost bought one new then the meds wore off. Twenty pounds of crap in a five pound box, I believe the space shuttle had fewer bells and whistles, Godspeed sir.
I had a boogie 22+ combo, it was very loud and a good pedal platform the clean was sterile and wouldn't crunch up, the lead was that awful thick Santana tone that you couldn't dial out, it was horrifically expensive almost 50% more than the excellent Marshall tsl 601 that I replaced it with, I never had any problems with either, both being reliable, I use boss katanas now good enough for what I'm doing cheap as chips, sound good enough and are very versatile.
I have a Mesa Formula preamp that had JFet failures in the switching circuit. Stupid that they solder them to the ckt board rather than using sockets and a dab of silicone that I modded in.
Hello Lyle, would you ever comment on amp brands/models that, when they do come across your bench for repair or normal servicing, impress you on build and design quality? I get it if you would rather not comment, but just wondering what makes seem to impress you. Thanks for all the great videos.
Thanks! I do try to from time to time - I don't want to be the doom & gloom amp channel. In roughly ascending price (so the lower price stuff is good "for the price"): Vox ACxx Custom series Victory Ceriatone (not kit builds but factory) Magnatone Dr Z (not inspiring but reliable) Orange Germino Metropoulos Fuchs Suhr Welagen Not a thorough list, but ones that come to mind.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks for the quick response! Good to know who gets honestly deserved respect. Again, love watching the videos and picking up solid knowledge! Thanks.
@@PsionicAudio what about Traynor amps? Supposedly the vintage ones are built like tanks, I recall the author of The Tube Amp Book was very enamored of them.
I had one of these amps. The fan was noisy, but even with the fan disconnected the noise floor was so bad (even clean) I could not record with it. I don't mind a little noise on guitar racks but this was too much for my taste.
Ok, we get it…the Marks CAN be a mess to repair…but this is much more of an overly-negative presentation than my experience with them (over 30 years) has proven. I’ve owned Mark IVs, IICs, IIIs, and Vs and I have not had much beyond what most tube amps require in the way of maintenance and/or repairs. In fact, my old Seymour Duncan Convertible had way more issues than any Boogie Mark amp I’ve ever had. I mean, yes, they can I’m sure be a pain in the arse to those who know and repair them…and I concede that. And this was a fantastic video in many ways. However, I guess I’m just saying that MY personal experience has been nothing but extremely solid for the most part. My Mark IV was especially robust over several years of gigging. Now, I do take great care of them. I baby them for sure. But they’ve performed when I’ve needed them and have never failed in the studio or live. So there! 😐😑😂 …oh, and for those who join in on bashing Mark amps in this thread, kinda comes across as people with NO long-term experience with them (not saying everyone, but most) and a tinge of jealousy. Enjoy your Katanas…I guess? 🤷♂️
I am wondering what people that fixing electronics like main board of laptop or fixing play station - working using microscope and using hot air to detach components from the circuit can say about that circuit, if it is really so dense :)
I love mine but after seeing the video I wouldn’t buy another. My next amp is going to be a simple single channel on a turret board . Something I can easily diagnose with a meter and fix it
I have a mark v 25 , its the 110v model from USA and I use it in Greece with a stepdown transformer but today a friend plugged in the amp directly to the 220v ac outlet and the amp died. The fuse on the back blew but there is also a smell like a melted plastic coming out from the area around the fuse. I tried to replace the fuse and I connected the amp to the 110v transformer but when I switched on the amp I saw smoke coming out from the area behing the ac plug so then I switched it off back immediately. I removed the amp from the housing to see if there is any visible damage but I can't see what might have fried. Do you have any idea where to look? Is there also any schematics available for this amp?
You may have melted the primary windings of the power xformer. They only get worse as they continue shorting out once the thin laminate melts off the wire, cooking and blowing more fuses. Check the transformer.
@@stevebeck3164 Finally I was very lucky, there is a varistor inside the amp for overvoltage protection and it did its job successfully. So I replaced it and the amp is working again now!
Thank you for your videos providing insight to Mesa amps. When I saw this product launched and all of the features I immediately wondered what they looked like inside. Now I know... yuck.
Yeah, one already obsolete and not recommended for future designs for years now. Shame on Mesa for using that instead of reading some other component's datasheet.
Yeah, you know how people try to be helpful by posting suggestions in the comments as if we were just encountering issues for the first time? While I'm sure they mean well, it can be kind of grating. And so halfway through the abandoned video I realized I was tech flexing. I was explaining about Darlingtons. Like, the deep magic shit. And I just realized nobody fucking cares. I don't even fucking care.
I don’t get it, are people really struggling that much for stage space; have cars not been getting bigger again since crashing testing kicked in? C’mon just put things in an appropriately sized chassis Mesa.
Mark 25 gets decent reviews from players. I heard it once in a band situation and sounded great. Does mesa actually have lower reliability than other amps? I see they would be a PINA to fix though. I'm kind of annoyed because I paid over $2k for a Dr Z and yep, it's got issues. I guess, with more crap crammed in the Mesa, the higher chance of something going wrong. Then of course my Z has a three knobs, and it's got noise issues. Go figure. My Origin 5, is bin worthy at this point. Anyhoo...great vid! Love watching em.
Mesas have big issues with reliability. This one sounds good clean, though the reverb isnt good. The OD tones are not to my taste. I'm going to do a video comparing this to the similar sized/output Egnater Tweaker 15. Very different price points.
@@PsionicAudio My 25 has been fine since 2014. Other two Marks V and my '87 III haven't failed either, if that helps balance the prognosis on reliability. You might like the drive tones better with a 12at7 in there V2 and V4 are the places to start that search definitely vintageyfies it.. great vids will sub.
@@Guitarsthatkill Anecdotal at best. Psionic Lyle works on hundreds of amps, and although not a scientific sampling, his sampling is far broader and more informed as well.
@@KentBuchla There are also 5-10x as many Mesas as there are of anything else that is as (or more) expensive. By the time production Soldano amps came along in mid-late 80s Mesa was selling the Mark IIIs... and had several combo amps, several Bass amps AND a full racked range of both as well. Cheaper amps are as likely to be stashed in an attic, garage or abandoned in a rehearsal space - as they are to ever be brought in for any maintenance.
I have mesa amps, my favorite giving amp is a Blues Jr. just one channel, one power level, I control my sound with controls on guitar, not a bunch of gizmos and sunshine blowers...
Ugh! No thank you. I’m an idiot. Give me an amp that gives me one tone well that inspires me and that’s all I need. Not so many switches, knobs and options. Or should I say bells and whistles. A much simpler circuit that can be easily worked on. These are just.....ugh!
@Kent Although from your POV, it is as anecdotal as this video, everything I stated was fact. If however you need to preemptively portray the idea that me and most of the people I know who play the things, are somehow nonexistant because we had different experiences with the things, its a giveaway that you might have bias issues? The arrogance in rushing to assume you have any knowledge of my experience is another too. A very Ad Hominem way of avoidance. If you need to believe they're all faulty, have fun. :) No skin off my of anyone else's nose i guess as we continue enjoying the amps themselves rather than 'anecdotal' reviews of them online, from any and other sources. Peace.
The one good thing about Mesa is they do sell their proprietary parts at reasonable prices. Andy Fuchs at least shows a really darned good effort at good design in PCB amps, but he doesn't have the blind brand loyalty following that Mesa has. Mesa can sell turds with knobs on them provided they are badged Mesa Boogie. Now that Gibson owns Mesa, comme ci comme ca. Gibson has almost NEVER been able to design a really good tube guitar amp on their own. The few outstanding outliers are right when they bought a new old company up, like Moog, Standel or even Mesa Eng. (I suppose) "comme ci". At least Henry J. is gone.
FWIW a year later, the reverb circuitry on these is poorly designed. On my 2009 MarkV, the tweed channel is the only side that has any reverb but it sounds nowhere as deep as a Fender or Marshall. On the other two channels, the reverb is virtually inaudible. Candidly, these are over-featured, poorly engineered POSs.
The Mesa bashing on this channel is uninspiring. This little amp costs as much or less than some of those Swarts, Carrs, BADs, Fenders HWs, Marshalls (US price) and other boutique builders. Not to mention the Two Rocks, Magnatones etc. In contrast it does a bucket load of things more. With my Mesas I have I never had an issue so far.
Here’s the thing though: having a 400V rated cap in a circuit with more than 400V present? That’s not my “opinion.“ That’s not me “hating on” Mesa. That’s just piss poor engineering and quality and it causes repeated, predictable, and preventable failures. Yours hasn’t failed. Yet. Great. And all my other “bashing“ comes from observing the many other common failures of many dozens of Mesas across many different models. They keep doing dumb things and charging you extra for it.
@@PsionicAudio I own a dozen and a few more amps. That is from where I take my experience. I went vintage only once and immediately returned the Fender Tremolux when I opened it up and saw an asbestos fiber board glued to the back panel. So I went boutique (mostly). Swart: great amp but (annoyingly) more noisy than my other amps, returned several Carrs (found them to be rather stiff and partially also noisy), Two Rock (probably my best sounding amps), dito with Suhr. I am glad that I finally found a handwired series Fender Princeton where the cabinet isn’t rattling. But my Mesas sit there like a tank, having a very good tone and are together with Two Rock the least noisy and having the best master for home playing. I understand that they might be more expensive to get repaired but that is owed to the multi feature set they come with. However the never let me down so far. What you also need to bear in mind is that you only get to see amps with failures. But how many Mesas are out there in the market with happy owners and how many Mesas ended up on your bench so far. If you would have this number, I am sure it would be a healthy one. On the other hand I had seen multiple BAD amps on your bench over the years. Likely their number is not as healthy - my guess.
This looks like alien technology and I don't mean the good kind. Here's what happens. Mesa Booger buys parts in bulk. Truckload after truckload till their warehouse is overfilled and terribly cluttered. The same guy that places parts in their inventory designs amps and layouts and well... he's awful at it. So they try to get rid of all these parts. Here they succeeded
I always imagine the Mesa Boogie engineering department to be located under a volcano and filled with echos of maniacal laughter. Good Lord. I’m glad I’m too dumb to work on Mesa amps.
WORKING ON MESA PRODUCTS ACTUALLY MAKES YOU DUMBER! I had to replace a 20 cent unobtainium 1/2x1/4 inch keyboard switch on a piece of ultra high end, USBS US Govt' Certified to > +/- 0.02% tolerance $40,000 1980s test equipment. I went into it like I was going into a Mesa Engineering product. I took apart about 1800% too much stuff. It is a lot more like taking down a desktop computer's tower to replace the mother board, CPU, RAM, graphics card, sound card, PCI cards and drives. It makes me hate Mesa even more than I did before, and it despite my doubts that I could hate them more, it just happened. I still have no clue how to access some of the screws I see the wrongs ends of, but I don't need to find out how to get to them. It was pulls some board like pulling PCI cards unplug some things a few screws and the main board opens like a door. EPIC GOOD DESIGN! Mesa is the exact opposite of that.
@@Satchmoeddienow imagine I can't even find a tech who knows how to look inside a stupid jcm800 2203 horizontal inputs (the one with the even easier to access pcb, holding just on the knobs)
When you say "boring", I realized that I like boring, tech content. For me it's about the learning experience. As a holiest tech, it is a helpful learning experience. My .02.
Great job tracing that out.
I have a Mesa Mark2b. I have done some repairs here and there and even recapped it. But there is no way I'm going near the circuit board. And it is nowhere near as bad as this thing. This amp tries to do too much. I'm now convinced it's better to get amps that do a single thing well.
It'll be interesting to see how all the Neural DSP stuff plays out over time. IMO, that setup ( add a $250 FRFR ) sets an upper limit on what I'd spend on an amp now. I've had a Headrush FRFR as a floor monitor and it worked amazingly well. However, all digital stuff fails sooner or later...
@@arkybeagle6159 The Kemper stuff is amazing. If I were making money touring, I would just use a Kemper. If it breaks, you go buy another one. Get your presets programmed plug it straight into the house PA, put your in ear monitors into your ears and yer done. F'k all to the set up cabs & heads & micing your cabs, & latency delay for mixing the mic'ed cabs with the DI signals and all that other BS. Push, pull, click, click, plug n play baby. I have fixed Line 6 stuff and it kinda sucks, but it's good enuff for playing the tavern scene.
@@Satchmoeddie pretty easy to just plug into an amp and play too. No sound man
i just sold my copy of this amp out of fear that I wouldn't play it enough and in 10-15 years it would need an expensive repair.
But I have to say, these are fantastic amps as long as people realize they're mesa and they don't have three channels "fender, marshall and mesa". they have separate mesa channels and all sound good. There's a large group of people out there who believe every amp company first has to make fender and marshall channels and then can make their own if they perfect those two.
My fear may be irrational - the one I had was probably four years old, not a single unwanted noise anywhere, very quite and could sound huge for such a small amp if one read the manual.
My other fear - complicated older amps don't resell well. I have seen freshly serviced and repaired JVM410H's for around $1000.
I had a Mk IIB in the 90’s. Best Mesa I ever owned, easy to work on.
The nightmare that is Mesa Boogie for all to see.. I still love a red stripe Mark III, this V:25 is insane inside the chassis..
I feel that Mesa has brilliant circuit design, no complaints there. Yes they’re very complex but that’s the nature of a wildly capable amp. Their Mark amps give you 25 settings in the hope you’ll find 3 you love and I’ve been very happy with that concept as a player. Physical assembly is another story. Good designers (of anything) consider maintenance and repair in their design, and Mesa could do much better considering the complexity of their designs. Complex demands a higher degree of reliability, and repairability, than simple - all else equal. They’re dropping that ball a bit too often.
I don’t mind the maximalist spirit but they ought to make these easily repairable for what they cost. Everything sure is crammed in there.
As for me, I’m just a weekend warrior, but give me a simple amp that a tech can get into and service easily, and I’ll get any sound I could ever need with pedals.
The "Mini" Cooper (BMW not the original) of amps?
(...a car that looks like it should be well under 3000 lbs but is closer to 2 tons...look under the hood sometime)
I'm just thankful it's still thru-hole and that Mesa stock replacement parts.
Good systematic approach to troubleshooting-isolating the fault to a particular system. I believe to work on Mesas a person has to understand on a gut level how they do things, but the repair techs in Petaluma are probably all alcoholics by now. It's kinda like a friend of mine worked for Mazda back in Wankel days and the big secret was the heap of dead rotaries back behind the warehouse. They've probably got a mound of junkers at the Mesa Tool and Die Works And Sewer Repair. My experience with a Mark Five:25 was not a happy one. When the owner decided to send it back to Mesa it was like getting out of prison for me. Only the third time I bailed in twelve years and two were back to back Mesas. It also occurs to me that on this particular model they are trying to cram everything that a full size Mesa has on real estate that's half the size. Twenty one relays? Why? This has just as much stuff on the board as the Mark III I worked on a month or so ago and the components are all just as large.
Are the tube sockets soldered to the PCB board or the chassis? Do these amps have any more frequent issues than other boutique makers that have multiple channels/modes?
A cheeseburger sounds good right now! This repair was very well done. Mesa amps are unnecessarily overbuilt, and made to stay that way. It looks like a motherboard threw up in a box. I can't imagine the pride you must feel after conquering this issue.
Thank you so much. I was about to look for one second hand but i think i pass it.
My MV 25 has been very reliable for about 3 years now. SO worth it so far. However, I get it. If I ever have a big issue, I’ll go with a Friedman…
I've got a 5;25 express head. The one without the graphic eq. I was thinking the other day that its probably about time that thing takes a shit now that the warranty is up. Ive built and repaired amps for years but you couldn't get me inside anything that says Mesa or Boogie.
Can't help but thinking some of the reliability issues are caused by components being jammed too close together, and a more spacious chassis might help. Using underated caps and resistors is unforgivable tho.
JFETs are sensitive to static discharge and do not always fail catastrophically immediately. I reckon Mesa employ a hairy arsed 'tech' to solder in the carefully damaged JFETs at his kitchen table, so the amp will fail just out of warranty. Well done for getting it going.
I had to send in my Mk V 35 after it began producing muffled tones after using a Fuzz pedal, to which the only thing that fixed it was replacing the v1 preamp tube. Yeah, I can't do that every time I want to use the pedal so I sent it in to Mesa for repair. 6 MONTHS LATER and no update. I called and asked what the status was, and they said the amp somehow got misplaced but they found it and will begin the repair. *sigh* I finally get the amp back and studied the invoice. It stated that they replaced the "Capt Tant 2.2uF 35V 10%" I'm assuming this is a component that they don't rate properly. Anyways, after the debacle with both the amp and their repair service, I'm selling this thing to avoid whatever surprises it has for me if I decide to play it again with a pedal.
I've been waiting for someone to open up one of these suckers, I almost bought one new then the meds wore off. Twenty pounds of crap in a five pound box, I believe the space shuttle had fewer bells and whistles, Godspeed sir.
Sold mine. Sounded great, got rid of it in case it ever broke.
🙃🤦
Hi friend, do you have the schematic for the Mark V:25 by any chance? Thank you!
Now I'm glad I sold the one I had!
That look as though a robot got sick in its lunch box.
Hahahah Undeniable
I had a boogie 22+ combo, it was very loud and a good pedal platform
the clean was sterile and wouldn't crunch up, the lead was that awful thick Santana tone that you couldn't dial out, it was horrifically expensive almost 50% more than the excellent Marshall tsl 601 that I replaced it with, I never had any problems with either, both being reliable, I use boss katanas now
good enough for what I'm doing
cheap as chips, sound good enough
and are very versatile.
And are so much lighter in and out at night. Especially late night.
I have a Mesa Formula preamp that had JFet failures in the switching circuit. Stupid that they solder them to the ckt board rather than using sockets and a dab of silicone that I modded in.
I never did figure out a way to work on a Mesa that did not involve charging the client more money than the amp was worth.
Hello Lyle, would you ever comment on amp brands/models that, when they do come across your bench for repair or normal servicing, impress you on build and design quality? I get it if you would rather not comment, but just wondering what makes seem to impress you. Thanks for all the great videos.
Thanks! I do try to from time to time - I don't want to be the doom & gloom amp channel.
In roughly ascending price (so the lower price stuff is good "for the price"):
Vox ACxx Custom series
Victory
Ceriatone (not kit builds but factory)
Magnatone
Dr Z (not inspiring but reliable)
Orange
Germino
Metropoulos
Fuchs
Suhr
Welagen
Not a thorough list, but ones that come to mind.
@@PsionicAudio Thanks for the quick response! Good to know who gets honestly deserved respect. Again, love watching the videos and picking up solid knowledge! Thanks.
@@PsionicAudio what about Traynor amps? Supposedly the vintage ones are built like tanks, I recall the author of The Tube Amp Book was very enamored of them.
I wonder if Gibson would have still acquired Mesa if they had watched this video first!?
I had one of these amps. The fan was noisy, but even with the fan disconnected the noise floor was so bad (even clean) I could not record with it. I don't mind a little noise on guitar racks but this was too much for my taste.
I replaced my fan for a pretty silent one. It’s an easy mod worth doing. The noise floor is ok for me unless using pedals.
Ok, we get it…the Marks CAN be a mess to repair…but this is much more of an overly-negative presentation than my experience with them (over 30 years) has proven. I’ve owned Mark IVs, IICs, IIIs, and Vs and I have not had much beyond what most tube amps require in the way of maintenance and/or repairs. In fact, my old Seymour Duncan Convertible had way more issues than any Boogie Mark amp I’ve ever had. I mean, yes, they can I’m sure be a pain in the arse to those who know and repair them…and I concede that. And this was a fantastic video in many ways. However, I guess I’m just saying that MY personal experience has been nothing but extremely solid for the most part. My Mark IV was especially robust over several years of gigging. Now, I do take great care of them. I baby them for sure. But they’ve performed when I’ve needed them and have never failed in the studio or live. So there! 😐😑😂 …oh, and for those who join in on bashing Mark amps in this thread, kinda comes across as people with NO long-term experience with them (not saying everyone, but most) and a tinge of jealousy. Enjoy your Katanas…I guess? 🤷♂️
skip to 1:52 for Lyles overall opinion of Mesa. And I'm counting 20 (?!) relays on the main PCB??
Hi! thank you very much for this great vid! Given your experience and knowledge, would you say this specific amp justifies its almost $2K price tag?
Good job.
Glad to see Mesa is still making bitter old coots seethe almost 50 years later
I am wondering what people that fixing electronics like main board of laptop or fixing play station - working using microscope and using hot air to detach components from the circuit can say about that circuit, if it is really so dense :)
I love mine but after seeing the video I wouldn’t buy another. My next amp is going to be a simple single channel on a turret board . Something I can easily diagnose with a meter and fix it
I have a mark v 25 , its the 110v model from USA and I use it in Greece with a stepdown transformer but today a friend plugged in the amp directly to the 220v ac outlet and the amp died. The fuse on the back blew but there is also a smell like a melted plastic coming out from the area around the fuse. I tried to replace the fuse and I connected the amp to the 110v transformer but when I switched on the amp I saw smoke coming out from the area behing the ac plug so then I switched it off back immediately. I removed the amp from the housing to see if there is any visible damage but I can't see what might have fried. Do you have any idea where to look? Is there also any schematics available for this amp?
oof, my advice would be to look for signs of heat damage, hopefully the fuse did its job before the amp was totaled.
You may have melted the primary windings of the power xformer. They only get worse as they continue shorting out once the thin laminate melts off the wire, cooking and blowing more fuses. Check the transformer.
@@stevebeck3164 Finally I was very lucky, there is a varistor inside the amp for overvoltage protection and it did its job successfully. So I replaced it and the amp is working again now!
Thank you for your videos providing insight to Mesa amps. When I saw this product launched and all of the features I immediately wondered what they looked like inside. Now I know... yuck.
Who cares how it looks on the inside.. you look at the inside of your laptop, iPhone or tv? Quit being a Luddite
Leo would ask what are you thinking when you design this . A fine example of not my problem to fix it designers . j174 is a jfet is it not ?
Yeah, one already obsolete and not recommended for future designs for years now. Shame on Mesa for using that instead of reading some other component's datasheet.
@@PsionicAudio about 15 years from my memory . still made to about 3.60 usd depending on quality from interfet.
My mark v 35 eq will not switch on from panel switches or foot switch. Help please
J201s (through-hole) are becoming scarce. Could be a nice retirement nest egg.
Can you share the schematic?
The treble caps in these amps are huge culprits, as u may well well know :)
I just scrapped a similar video on the H&K Grandmeister Deluxe 40 self-biasing circuit.
Yeah, you know how people try to be helpful by posting suggestions in the comments as if we were just encountering issues for the first time? While I'm sure they mean well, it can be kind of grating.
And so halfway through the abandoned video I realized I was tech flexing. I was explaining about Darlingtons. Like, the deep magic shit.
And I just realized nobody fucking cares. I don't even fucking care.
@@PsionicAudio I was doing the same shit with that bias circuit. Napkin sketches and all.
Fuck that, back to the soldering iron!
@@BradsGuitarGarage The eyes begin to glaze over real quick.
this looks big pain
I don’t get it, are people really struggling that much for stage space; have cars not been getting bigger again since crashing testing kicked in? C’mon just put things in an appropriately sized chassis Mesa.
I would love to know, Is there a boogie amp that you do like....would recommend? Are the older ones designed better?
Not really. They all have major issues. Maybe a Mk II or a Satellite 60 if forced at gunpoint.
I was in the market…
But I’m going to wait for the upgrade with the fingerprint reader.
BTW, is the extreme mode spelt with two ‘e’s or three? Xtreme!
Two Es only on the 25 spelling. Getting that extra E on the beginning would have taken up room that may not have been there.
Mark 25 gets decent reviews from players. I heard it once in a band situation and sounded great. Does mesa actually have lower reliability than other amps? I see they would be a PINA to fix though. I'm kind of annoyed because I paid over $2k for a Dr Z and yep, it's got issues. I guess, with more crap crammed in the Mesa, the higher chance of something going wrong. Then of course my Z has a three knobs, and it's got noise issues. Go figure. My Origin 5, is bin worthy at this point. Anyhoo...great vid! Love watching em.
Mesas have big issues with reliability. This one sounds good clean, though the reverb isnt good. The OD tones are not to my taste.
I'm going to do a video comparing this to the similar sized/output Egnater Tweaker 15. Very different price points.
@@PsionicAudio My 25 has been fine since 2014. Other two Marks V and my '87 III haven't failed either, if that helps balance the prognosis on reliability. You might like the drive tones better with a 12at7 in there V2 and V4 are the places to start that search definitely vintageyfies it.. great vids will sub.
@@Guitarsthatkill Anecdotal at best. Psionic Lyle works on hundreds of amps, and although not a scientific sampling, his sampling is far broader and more informed as well.
@@KentBuchla There are also 5-10x as many Mesas as there are of anything else that is as (or more) expensive. By the time production Soldano amps came along in mid-late 80s Mesa was selling the Mark IIIs... and had several combo amps, several Bass amps AND a full racked range of both as well.
Cheaper amps are as likely to be stashed in an attic, garage or abandoned in a rehearsal space - as they are to ever be brought in for any maintenance.
I have mesa amps, my favorite giving amp is a Blues Jr. just one channel, one power level, I control my sound with controls on guitar, not a bunch of gizmos and sunshine blowers...
Ugh! No thank you. I’m an idiot. Give me an amp that gives me one tone well that inspires me and that’s all I need. Not so many switches, knobs and options. Or should I say bells and whistles. A much simpler circuit that can be easily worked on. These are just.....ugh!
Why I don’t own a Mesa!
Why are Boogies so noisy? Hum and hiss even at low volume/gain!
Am I the only person that still wants to see the whole, 50minute video. 🤤
Amazing patience for today's digital age.
Well, this is all analog. But I get your point, and thanks.
Findle? Sounds like a Silicon Valley startup.
This is a waking nightmare. #NeverMesa
Want to sell the J201s ? I need them to repair pedals.
Mesas are such a design mess.
Lyle's buddy Brad in Australia (Brad Guitar Garage channel) calls them "Mess uh's".
Guy I knew called 'em "Messy Boogers".
@Kent Although from your POV, it is as anecdotal as this video, everything I stated was fact. If however you need to preemptively portray the idea that me and most of the people I know who play the things, are somehow nonexistant because we had different experiences with the things, its a giveaway that you might have bias issues? The arrogance in rushing to assume you have any knowledge of my experience is another too. A very Ad Hominem way of avoidance. If you need to believe they're all faulty, have fun. :) No skin off my of anyone else's nose i guess as we continue enjoying the amps themselves rather than 'anecdotal' reviews of them online, from any and other sources. Peace.
Oh sweet jaysusmaryanjoseph. Horrible thing to work on.
I guess the only reliable Mesa amp is the one in the Neural DSP plugin 😂
Looks like the inside of a printer.
I actually had a cheeseburger as I started this video
The one good thing about Mesa is they do sell their proprietary parts at reasonable prices. Andy Fuchs at least shows a really darned good effort at good design in PCB amps, but he doesn't have the blind brand loyalty following that Mesa has. Mesa can sell turds with knobs on them provided they are badged Mesa Boogie. Now that Gibson owns Mesa, comme ci comme ca. Gibson has almost NEVER been able to design a really good tube guitar amp on their own. The few outstanding outliers are right when they bought a new old company up, like Moog, Standel or even Mesa Eng. (I suppose) "comme ci". At least Henry J. is gone.
FWIW a year later, the reverb circuitry on these is poorly designed. On my 2009 MarkV, the tweed channel is the only side that has any reverb but it sounds nowhere as deep as a Fender or Marshall. On the other two channels, the reverb is virtually inaudible. Candidly, these are over-featured, poorly engineered POSs.
Not impressed with that Mesa
Not impressed by any mesa, period.
Watching somebody troubleshooting these amps is like watching sausage being made ----- you really don't want to see what goes into there.....
The Mesa bashing on this channel is uninspiring. This little amp costs as much or less than some of those Swarts, Carrs, BADs, Fenders HWs, Marshalls (US price) and other boutique builders. Not to mention the Two Rocks, Magnatones etc. In contrast it does a bucket load of things more. With my Mesas I have I never had an issue so far.
Here’s the thing though: having a 400V rated cap in a circuit with more than 400V present?
That’s not my “opinion.“ That’s not me “hating on” Mesa.
That’s just piss poor engineering and quality and it causes repeated, predictable, and preventable failures.
Yours hasn’t failed. Yet. Great.
And all my other “bashing“ comes from observing the many other common failures of many dozens of Mesas across many different models.
They keep doing dumb things and charging you extra for it.
@@PsionicAudio I own a dozen and a few more amps. That is from where I take my experience.
I went vintage only once and immediately returned the Fender Tremolux when I opened it up and saw an asbestos fiber board glued to the back panel. So I went boutique (mostly).
Swart: great amp but (annoyingly) more noisy than my other amps, returned several Carrs (found them to be rather stiff and partially also noisy), Two Rock (probably my best sounding amps), dito with Suhr. I am glad that I finally found a handwired series Fender Princeton where the cabinet isn’t rattling. But my Mesas sit there like a tank, having a very good tone and are together with Two Rock the least noisy and having the best master for home playing. I understand that they might be more expensive to get repaired but that is owed to the multi feature set they come with. However the never let me down so far.
What you also need to bear in mind is that you only get to see amps with failures. But how many Mesas are out there in the market with happy owners and how many Mesas ended up on your bench so far. If you would have this number, I am sure it would be a healthy one. On the other hand I had seen multiple BAD amps on your bench over the years. Likely their number is not as healthy - my guess.
This looks like alien technology and I don't mean the good kind.
Here's what happens. Mesa Booger buys parts in bulk. Truckload after truckload till their warehouse is overfilled and terribly cluttered. The same guy that places parts in their inventory designs amps and layouts and well... he's awful at it. So they try to get rid of all these parts. Here they succeeded
The modes should be marked "shitty", "shittier", and "shittiest".