@@orcaflotta7867 Stay away from the books and take the series on its picture and picture story value. there is a lot coming up over the next three books related to the series.
@@kevrenshaw6177 Problem is that I had read a number of Exp. novels already long before the series came out. And they are really great, and up to a certain point the series stays true to the much superior literary blueprint. Still more or less just a retelling.
Really grew to like his charector through 2 seasons, did not like him at the begining but was genuinely sad when he floated. I hope drummer and daws avenges him.
@@new-dystopia This. The Ashford we came to know would have pulled the trigger one last time. That said I saw this coming when Drummer said she would not join and took the bottle back with her. And the whole space shanty funeral with the bagpipes was beautifully done. The character definitely deserved that.
May want to put a spoiler alert edit on this for people who are not caught up or have not read the books fully. :). AND YES. I was absolutely also devastated.
Amos is unbearable. The less screen time his character gets the better. It’s like his dialogue was written by a thirteen year old. Every scene involving the character is the exact same.
I agree with the take that Drummer and Ashford didn’t seem to be doing much, but seeing their relationship develop was amazing. They had super good chemistry together.
@@highgrounder5238 I don't remember Ashford, but Drummer had a very small part of book 4. It was mostly Holden, Naomi, Amos, and Alex. And I'm pretty sure Naomi never went down the well.
I got teared up when Ashford died. I really didn't expect it and I really didn't like it. Ashford became one of my favorite characters without me fully realizing it, until his death. Damn them for killing him, but props for giving him a good death.
DarkAshenfall tbh his character arc in the books was limited to the ring gate battle in season 3. I was so happy that they made his character much deeper in the show, and I figured they would kill him off eventually. If he had to die, well, I’m glad he got an awesome death scene. Made me cry 😢
I thought Was so obvious he was gonna die, and the baby he was holding in an old video from a few eps previous was naomi's son who was the the cause of his death
"To the execution dock I have come Tili go to the execution block for to sail. I was sick and nigh to death but I vow with my every breath For go with wisdom ways when I sail"
The highlight of this amazing season was the Ashford death scene. I absolutely agree it was heart breaking and emotional. The singing was hauntingly brilliant. Great season with many many great points. Really need to release season 5 one episode a week though.
I'm in two minds about all at once or per week. So many of these episodes end on a cliffhanger, I wonder if it would build more hype to wait a week for the resolution.
Wait. Where is the obligation to binge watch any show? I tended to view them when time allowed, usually no more than two on any occasion. You think they would go better once a week, simple, watch them that way. There is an actual choice here. Not trying to be snippy, just illuminating the obvious.
Solomon Gibson III yeah I get that but it’s like when you have a box of cookies. You don’t have one and stop do you. I binged the whole series in a couple of days. I just think they should let them out slowly to build up word of mouth and anticipation. That’s the one thing tv has over streaming services. It’s just my opinion.
@@scouseandy07 I grant you the anticipation angle, if that is a missing component one appreciates, but word-of-mouth I don't believe has much effect. It, certainly, has helped numerous shows, 'Mrs. Maisel', 'Jessica Jones', etc., etc. Word-of-mouth is a benefit whether a show is weekly or all-at-once. As for streaming vs. television, I've been around a while, and grew up with the traditional weekly viewing ways, but think the jury is still out on which has the narrative advantage. Honestly, I don't see either being dominant. What a series drop gives the viewer is a choice on how they wish to watch a show, something regular tv does not. I may eat more than one cookie, but I don't have to consume the entire box. You're asking streaming platforms to favor those who can't resist consuming the entire box, depriving those who can of the option of choosing for themselves.
andrew latham brah I started looking up the song Ashford sang the Ballad of captain kidd... R.I.P. to Ashford- even though he was a Dick at first.. but who isn’t..
Ashford had a worthy send off. He became my favorite characters. My issues with Season 4 are similar to issues in other shows lately: -Avasarala went from being confident to being an asshole. Her "new" husband was miscast & poorly written. -Did the writers have some quota requiring the F bomb every 15 seconds? -Nagata's cringey motivational speeches - Some of the dialogue was just illogical & cringey like "HOW ARE YOU GOING TO FIX THIS??" When the problem is an uncontrollable natural disaster.
Joel D dialogue isn’t perfect in real life... why expect perfection in dialogue under stressful situations in a fictional real life. Real life situations usually don’t go as your trained to handle them- but ya make it work. Perfect Dialogue, is like perfect beauty- it becomes uglier the more you make it better. Let me copyright that.
I don't know about Avasarala, she was kinda an asshole from Season 1 and I actually at some point even expected her to be a bad guy. Well, she didnt turn out to be one but for the asshole part - she's been always like that.
Thomas Jane has returned as director of an episode in season 5. I actually loved the Drummer/Ashford arc, but maybe that's because I knew what it was leading to? The Expanse writers really know how to set up and execute a meaningful death scene, don't they.
In comparison to the book this was better than I expected. That book dragged. The cut a lot of unnecessary stuff. Miller’s partner from season one was actually a part of book 4. He was a part of that private security team. Although if I recall he was on the ship in the air the whole time. Also a whole sub plot where they capture Naomi that he was a part of. I think S5 and S6!(depending how the end this) should be a lot better
S4 is my least favorite season, as I disliked all of the Belters on Ilus and disliked most of the plot lines involved with those characters. Murtry was a bad guy but the Ilus Belters earned what they got. I thought Ashford and Drummer had great arcs. I feel S5 was better overall except for some of Naomi's arc dragged and also the final episode was very awkward.
Rip. Yeah I feel like s1-3 created tension and plot from competent ppl facing complex problems and had us really asking questions about who is really right. Even when someone did something harsh we could justify it or at least ask questions. In s4-5 the entire plot is motivated by psychopaths. It's hard for me to get behind the bad guy's point of view, Murtry barely had a point of view. It's like they couldn't find a way to have an adversary so they just made one up just for the sake of having one. Just makes the whole thing shallow. Makes me even more mad about the end of Ashford's arc.
While some characters may have done little in a season, I think it shows that the showrunners are a bit more comfortable with Amazon and can properly set up antagonists and slow burn some story threads like Okoye and Drapers. I mean they couldve eliminated Bobbies story and stuck just to planet X but they kept the scope on the entire universe. Love this series.
I agree with them taking there time. while season one was a single story arc both season two and three felt split in there stories arcs with one being warped up half way through and finishing out the season with another. Don't get me wrong all four seasons are absolutely awesome but it felt like they were trying to get through as much as possible before the inevitable cancellation which I assume they were trying to stave off with the reveal of the Ring Network. Here though it feels like they know (barring unforeseen circumstances) that they will be around for a while so they can slow down the pace and let it breath, which also helps with the reduced episode count, something I usually hate but here felt natural because they weren't trying to cram multiple arcs into one season.
@@brentstar323 Agreed, also the source material for this season isnt that much... they go to a planet and stop a thing so having less than 13 episodes is fine. Next season though I hope is chalk full because I dont see how they do all of the book in one season.
A wonderful season, capped off by the heartbreaking loss of two of my favorite characters, Miller & Ashford. Ashford singing his way out was amazing, and yeah, I cried. His character arc was done so well- he never lost the core of who he was, but his vision expanded, along with his heart. As for the MCU- for me, the only the Ant-Man + the Wasp pictures show any promise for the future. Wouldn't it be great if we got Edgar Wright finally? Well, a gal can dream.
Season 4 was solid, though it was my least favorite of the series. The lower budget is apparent. Individual scenes still look amazing! But the overall scope was severely narrowed. Fewer extras. Fewer planets. Fewer action or establishing scenes in space. Smaller sets (the Nauvoo scenes are now two people in that singular room). They also turned Chrisjen into a bumbling, stumbling idiot for most of the season. Don't get me wrong, the quality of the show is still high, but compared to its first and second season, the budget cuts are painfully obvious.
It was book 4....it was pretty much about New Terra. You want space wars and other planets then wait for season 5 and beyond. Trust me, books 7 and 8 are awesome!
It's really difficult to ignore the extremely poor re-casting choice for Chrisjen's husband. His character was completely different from the prior season's actor (Brian George). Instead of a tender, loving husband, he came off like some kind of arm's length campaign advisor, and that's completely aside from the fact he looks at least 20 years her junior. I really cannot fathom the reasons that they decided he was the best choice to replace Brian George, and furthermore, whether it was the writing or the performance or a combination of both, it really killed immersion for me.
It was fine. Cibola Burn was in fact a reset. The next two books Nemesis Games And Babylons ashes are a second trilogy. People were so blown away by season 3 they expected season 4 to have the same stakes and level of tension. Well it couldn’t. Abaddon’s Gate was the end of that part of the story.
I read this "reset" argument all the time by people defending s.4. It's a piss-poor excuse. Season 3 was so very excellent, and ended with the promise of amazing exploration of 1300 habitable systems. Instead we got a tiny story involving one system. It was a huge fail when measured against viewer expectations at the end of s.3. But even the tiny story was poorly told this time around. The visuals were confusing at times,, and the story on Ilus seemed completely contrived. We are not given any info about the location of the Belter settlement. It could be seaside. It could be 2000' above sea level. Then the tidal wave rolls in. Then the people all get infected with a native organism that blinds them (except for Holden). Then deadly slugs appear out of nowhere and start dropping from the ceiling on top of the blind people. It all seemed highly contrived and entirely improbable, and it quickly destroyed my suspension of disbelief. I've read through book 6, so I know the stakes will be higher this coming season. Their was an elegance to s.1 - s.3. If you watched carefully, everything was foreshadowed to some degree, you had a good chance to guess what was coming, and all of the characters acted in predictable and consistent fashion when confronted with problems that required decisions and acting upon those decisions. It was perfect storytelling. A lot of that was missing from s.4. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best and a return to form for s.5.
@@Yesquire0 don’t agree. The book Cibola Burn is one of my favorites in the series. I’m glad they chose to focus on one planet, it let the story settle in and focus on what would be the problems of Settling a new world. I wish they had focused more on why the RCE scientists were concerned and why their concerns turned out to be right. The series has foreshadowed a lot of season 5. Also books 7 and 8. It’s a lot more hidden but it’s there. I think it is a reset. And I don’t agree with you that character behaviors were missing. They weren’t. They were consistent with what we’ve seen so far. I wish they had spent more time on Elvi and Miller, I liked season 4 a lot and it was the beginning of the next movement in a symphony of stars.
@@davedahl4461 Insofar as we are both going to turn on the TV on 12/16/20 and watch the start of s.5, our little debate here is of no consequence except to maybe make us wonder, and make anybody reading this exchange wonder, why avid fans could be so far apart on their feelings about s.4. So, let me provide some details. The openng sequence for s4.e1. displayed a farily large number of ships in the vicinity of the ring. It was a visual mish-mash. You couldn't tell which ships were filled with refegee belters and which were Martian patrol vessels. You couldn't tell whom the Martians were firing upon, and it wasn't really clear how the Barbicola managed to excape being destroyed. It seemed to be fleeing towards the right at high speed, and their did not seem to be any flip-and-burn before it entered The Ring. Are there no longer any speed limits on Ring entry? It left me thoroughly confused. Later on, Holder drops down a vertical shaft to travel underground through the abandoned Ring-builder facility on Ilus. He is never shown transferring onto a horizontal conveyance. The protomolecule (at least on Ilus) is defeated by whatever that "eye" is, and we discover that Holden is not deep within Ilus, but near the surface. "Near" is a relative term, for it still looks like a major vertical climb to get outside the structure and radio the Roci. Holden, who is majorly sleep-deprived from trying to lead the tidal wave survivors around throught the green slug showers, and shaken from his mano-et-mano with Murtry, makes the climb anyway. We are not shown how he did it. He just announces he's going ot climb to daylight, and then he's standing outside. Those are just two examples of things I felt were sub-optimal story-telling of the sort we never had to sit through during the first three seasons. It reminded me (shudder!!!) of how Game of Thrones' story-telling crashed and burned in the final couple of seasons. I've told everybody within earshot that The Expanse was the best show, ever, bar none, in any genre, any era. I"ve now decided, based upon the disappointment that was s.4, to bide my time and see how things play out from here before revisiting whether or not it is the GoaT for TV entertainment. It's not so much that s.4 stinks, but how much of a decline it represents when measured against s.1-s.3. BTW, I do not think s.1 was "slow" or that half of it was spent "world building". I though s.1 was fabulous, and can't readily accept the idea that the first episode in each of the three trilogies has to be less than fully satisfying because it is a "reset".
@@Yesquire0 it’s a difference of opinion. Anyone that actually reads all of that will shrug and make their own judgements. I enjoyed it, I don’t need it to be perfect. I still love Cibola Burn as one of my favorite books. You’ve done a good job expressing your argument, and your disappointment. It hasn’t affected my love for it one bit. I do see it as a reset, that doesn’t weaken it one bit for me. I’m looking forward to season 5. And the final season 6 although I am sad that they can’t complete the story. I am looking forward to book 9, though I admit some trepidation about it.
@@davedahl4461 I was greatly disappointed to hear about the production ending after the 6th season. Some fans have suggested that it could contnue as a spin-off of the main series, as I am told there is a 30-year time gap between the end of Book 6 and the beginning of Book 7 which might require re-casting with aged actors. I also have some hope for more season's beyound six engedered by the fact that The Who are planning their 47th Final World Tour. I think there is money to be made on the final three books, and those seeking to make that money will find a way to make it. Evaluating entertainment is never completely subjective, but never in the history of the Web has anybody changed another person's opinion about a beloved piece of entertainment, so debating endlessly is a waste of time. Nice talkng to you about The Expanse.
All in all, I have very much disliked this show, but if they have brought the Miller-bot to life on screen I may just have to watch whatever episode(s) it's in. Definitely my favorite part of that book.
@@j.w.m.415 Shorter time period, but they do. There's a grav-lev type system Holden uses to get that distance, instead of riding the bot. He does show up though.
Pros: the expanse still lives. Cons: transitioning from all out war and deepening discoveries of proto-molecule to “peace” naturally feels less intense. I’m hopeful for the next season.
UnknownHumanoid why you Pensa? in case it’s unclear let me expand my comment (lolz). The key phrase here is by comparison. The expanding discovery of the proto molecule, its capacity and purpose was intriguing. The cat and mouse politics and conflicts were intriguing. The escalation to, and battles within the war combined with the above had a certain intensity. The discovery of and entry into the ring is almost a crescendo point. After this is all established it will of course be difficult to match the same intensity - by comparison. The story evolved and - by comparison this season was more shall we say “slow boil”. In comparison to say an asteroid hurtling at earth and you know, moving on its own. Like all fans I’m glad the show is back and am hopeful that space John snow, finds his balls or what ever he’s looking for out there....
@@UnknownHumanoid Actually yes, since seasons 1-3 were basically "all out war". I might have liked this as a prequel. But Holden; after getting a fundamental "enlightenment" of the entire history of a more developed civilization, suddenly goes back to being suspicious of protomolecule tech and thinking blowing it up will help again and again, when it's obviously shown to be a power and force way beyond anything he could hope to control or understand. THAT'S stupid.
7 episodes in and I hit a wall. The woman running for office and her gay husband is painful to watch. Piss poor acting and too much "Get the fuck out of my office you campaign manager fucking cocksuckers!" Watching a bunch of scummy belters holing up in a giant rhinoceros horn isn't floating my boat either. Let me guess. Holden is gonna do the right thing. And Amos is still an autistic tough guy so look out. It is descending into self parody. The bright spot is the Belter girl and the Bourne Identity guy. The only likeable people left on the show with a character arc. .
The moral ambiguity in this season was great. Done really well. In a lot of shows you don't even see it, or it seems forced or done badly, but here everybody had their reasons, and it suited the personalities. Great season. I don't think I was even worried that it was moving to Amazon. They do some quality stuff, and the cast are experienced enough with the show by now to make sure everything was done right anyway. Also, I couldn't see Amazon just slapping it together just for the sake of it. Especially after all the media coverage of them taking it on. Which they wouldn't have even done if they weren't planning on doing a good job. I love everything about the show, but the profanity from Avasarala is probably my favourite thing in the whole series..
Haven't read the books but they're spot on. Season 4 feels much like a build-up to Season 5. Well I'm hoping it is as I really don't want another whole season being stuck on one planet.
I have only read Leviathan, but as far as I'm concerned, it was a matter of time to have a season like this one. I see it like an inherent trait of the genre and format and I don't think it detracts from the series as a whole. Personally, the only thing I "missed" in this season was some more space combat, but that's only because both the books and the series have made the whole concept very interesting. PS: RIP Ashford. The OPA has lost a loyal and sensible officer.
I noticed the gravitational lensing (I don't remember noticing it in previous seasons) when the belters ship accelerated after they get out of the Ring. They also showed the fusion process inside the drive. Loved it!!!
Especially when the proto-molecule stopped fusion, that "ping" drop sound of the fuel pellet was so disheartening in the level of chaos that was only just starting...
@@themightyjagrafess8596 u know how a heavy mass object such as black hole bend the space time around itself thereby bending the path of light, causing the viewer to see what's behind the black hole out side of the event horizon. That thing.
The recasting of Arjun was quite distracting. In the books Arjun is a peaceful, kind, content and philosophical father figure. Michael Benyaer neither looks the part, nor does he act it. I understand that securing actors for bit roles in television series can be extremely difficult, but they could have at least found someone a bit older and someone who doesn't look like a poster child for a Private Military Firm. Michael Benyaer by the way is a great actor, but he does not make a good Arjun. Bob from Reboot on the other hand...
Couldn't agree more. The casting of the new actor was glaringly bad...considering the exceptional casting decisions thus far. The chemistry between he and Chrisjen was awkward and severly lacked any sense of a lifetime of shared moments. My opinion anyway... =)
Roberto Moreno yeah the original actor who played Arjun was not only an amazing actor but he had great chemistry with Chrisjen. It felt like they were married for decades and had an understanding of one another even though they may not share the same views. It was amazing. The new actor (though not to criticize is acting voices, especially as a training actor myself knowing how personal a performance is to an actor but constructive criticism is needed in order for an actor to progress and excel) played the character very aggressively and rude. And when he was in a scene with Shohreh Aghdashloo (Chrisjen) she carried the scenes. I wonder why they recasted Arjun?
plus Benyaer was 18 years younger than Shohreh! When I saw him the first time, i thought he was like a personal aide to Chrisjen. When i realized what happened, I said to myself, "they recast Arjun with Judah from Bojack Horseman."
@@adamajobe1756 Brian George, the original actor, has been a 'that guy' actor in television for decades now. I wouldn't be surprised if he enjoys the vatied jobs and doesent like to be stapled to a particular set. It could have also as easily been what other jobs he had at the time.
I didn't like how ashford decided to storm a ship with two other people of questionable combat skill. He lost two immediately but decides to take the rest of the ship by himself instead of returning to his and blowing them away? I really don't feel like that fit with the intelligence of his character where he previously exercises caution and thought. It felt like they needed him to die and were too lazy to write a way that made sense. If he knew he was going to board a ship with an unknown number of people on it wouldn't he bring more than a couple people? It was a really bad decision. Now if amos did that I would have no problem with it, that's exactly the type of thing I would expect from him.
Not only that but he had the opportunity to kill the guy. Someone pointing a gun at your body doesn't stop you from pulling a trigger. He knows he's going to be spaced. It makes no sense.
@@Dadecorban Having just been captured, he wanted to send out a message and he did. If he shot Inaros regardless, he wouldn't have gotten that chance, neither would he have ensured the subversion of his plans. At least now someone might know in time. Other than that, I agree that he should have never ended up in that situation. Ashford is a capable guy. Anyone can get outsmarted, I just wish it didn't feel like he played right into Marco's hands.
@@ranialian8537 I just went back and rewatched it. I never noticed he was recording the conversation and I've watched the whole season 3 times. Thanks man
odizzido i think that ashford could (and should) have killed marco right then and there. The reason why he didn’t (imho) is that filip was right there. It all tails back to what ashford said to his „colleagues“ when they wanted to kill that martian, that they should consider what that murder would cause, because violence begets more violence. and what ashford said to drummer, that people need to stop to hate in order to unite for a brighter future and that the old ways do not work anymore if the killing is to be stopped.
I think there was a slight drop in quality and there were some things that dropped the ball on technical/science authenticity. One example is when the OPA ship is following Marco’s ship that’s harbouring the asteroid he is intending on sending to earth. They say it is on a deceleration burn but as established in novels and previous seasons that ships turn around to slow down, pointing their main drive towards destination. But I was always a bit concerned this season wouldn’t translate well from the novel it was based on and be a real snoozer, potentially kill the series. But damn it was good and mixed some of the following novel into the story to give some other characters something to do. Really enjoyed the season over all and seemed to get better as went on.
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You can adjust delta-v on a spacecraft only using thrusters, instead of main drive. For example, that's how Apollo spacecraft separated from the third stage, moved out a bit, then flew back to dock with the LM nestled in it's "garage" mounting. Now that said, unless they propelled it somehow, the asteroid "flew" away at an oddly high rate of sep.
Yea that asteroid definitely had some unseen propulsion didn’t it lol. I don’t believe thrusters could decelerate an Epstein drive adequately. In the books, often at midway point, the ships would need to turn their main drive to destination to slow down. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, yea? The fuel to weight ratio doesn’t apply to Epstein drives. They smash out as much acceleration as they can physically endure and then turn it around for a deceleration burn. And even then it takes months or years for some journeys.
JoeysSecretLover I was thinking that. Some random passenger and a child at that with no qualifications or known experience is calling the shots on an EVA that the crew lives and trillions of dollar payload depend on.
I am a big fan of this show but it felt to me like they stretched the story a little too much in season 4, it had little action, season 3 still remains the best season for me
Considering the book is pretty much wholely about the new planet I appreciated still enjoying the shows crafted plots to feature fan faves this season like Bobbie and Draper vs just stick them in a back burner for an entire season. The fact the authors help with the show means you barely noticed this was all "filler" to go along with the Roci crew. These characters are fantastic and it's been a master stroke adding them in much earlier in show vs books so we're fully behind them before they even fully get going.
I do appreciate the authors’ collaboration with the series, they sort of authorize little spin offs which were only referenced in the books. I really like the Inaros vein, another actor I don’t know who is probably going to be great in season 5...
I think the first couple of series are some of the only adaptations that are better than the books they're based on. Introducing Avasarala straight away improved things a lot.
what really amazes me with the expanse is the actors, did not know them before the expanse but they all seem like they are veteran actors. For this means a lot especially when it startet as a syfy show.
The only thing I didn't like about season 4 was due to bits missing from the book - little stuff like Havelock (Miller's partner from season 1) was supposed to be the assistant security chief on board the Edward Israel - with a whole subplot to himself and the crew of the EI having its own developments. However, the book also doesn't have anything from back in the sol system so really glad we did get those developments with Mars especially. If season 5 catches on like season 2 did then we'll be in for a right treat (and far as I can tell, while we may not get the raid on Enceladus with Filip, we have confirmation Monica Stuart - the reporter from late season 3 - will be back, and this should be a damn good season with juicy bits for our Martians and Amos too) and I agree that the aspect ratios, while they did help make the scenes, changing back and fourth in an episode was a little emersion breaking. If season 5 goes the way of the book, I think we'll have riots if we have to wait for season 6 too long (and if we do get to season 7, and I am reading Persopolis Rising right now, well we should know how it pans out by season 5, but 7 would be a right treat indeed... We're still waiting on the final book and the progression of characters and plot is just so great, if we get a full series out of this, I think this could set a standard that may never be beaten among all Sci fi in my opinion. An odyssey like no other before it or likely for a long time to come).
Widget I can’t remember, did Bazes daughter so everything that she did in the show, in the book? Because it felt silly in the show having her do all of those important things instead of senior members on the BabaPiccola
@@zaprese In the Book, Felcia does board the Barbapiccola and wind up in orbit during the fusion crisis, in the book its is Basia that opposes her getting a university education because he lost Katoa to protgen on Io during the Ganymede crisis, but without that context it would be hard to justify his love for his daughter coming from fears that she could end up like Doctor Strickland - (I felt wierd seeing her mother - a medtech - oppose her getting educated but in the book she uses her own education to encourage her daughter - also Basia is the one working with the OPA cell) but he says goodbye before the shuttle takes her up. After the fusion crisis starts, Basia is the one who ends up on the Rocinante and there is also an EVA operation made by Naomi (Alex and Naomi stay on the ship in orbit in the book - though they do come down during runs, Naomi could "feel her knees starting to leak" in the constant high gravity - though they also state in the book that the trip to Ilus takes several months and in order to arrive in time to hopefully make a difference, Holden agrees with the crew to have high-G shifts to shorten the trip with low-G intervals for the Martian and Belter of his crew - anyway) Naomi attempts to disable the RCE's suicide shuttle days before things get urgently desperate and using a special EVA rig with a vacuum welding kit, she planned to put an angine disabling device on it and get out without being noticed - unfortunately, despite keeping the shuttle half a kilometer away, Havelock happens to be training his own little militia of earther and Martian engineers (on Murtry's orders) in EVA combat using paintball guns and gives them generally good advice like "stay away from the thruster ports unless you don't mind getting vaporised". Havelock notices her and despite being equipped with paintball guns, Naomi notices them coming and attempts an escape - only to get tangled up in grapnel lines set out by the engineers (despite Havelock's plan only being to intimidate the saboteur away with no intention of physical confrontation - this sporadic escellation doesn't end here). Naomi actually spends the next few weeks captured on the Edward Israel and despite being a prisoner under Havelock's guard, she earns his trust and he winds up getting along with her better than his own militia. Murty of course wants her kept there for trial in an Earth Court for it and Alex is left alone with Basia on the Roci until eventually there is a prison break of sorts. I forget the exact catalyst but Basia gets sent in with Roci Martian combat EVA gear and with that distraction, Havelock gets himself a shotgun with beanbag rounds so he can fight off any militia that don't buy that he's just "moving the prisoner to throw off the intruder" and eventually he finds Basia, having locked himself in a space toilet trying to avoid the gunfire from the militia - who Murty gave real guns to (had access to the weapons locker). The three of them go EVA and return to the Roci to help with rescuing the Barbapiccola from orbital decay. Havelock makes constant efforts to minimise casualties by constantly warning his militia on an open frequency - but the chief engineer kind of goes rogue and takes just about everything personally and winds up pushing the militia into an attack on the Roci, including DIY handheld missiles made from fire extinguishers - and after Havelock finally winds up killing him, everyone else kind of announces that "Chief engineer Koenen took it too far. No hard feelings?" With a nearly complete Roci crew, the tether is constructed and the rescue plan put into effect, including the use of the rail gun as propulsion (even gets referenced in a later book where a fellow pilot is chatting with Alex about some of their exploits from previous years - among other good bits still yet to come). Eventually though, the Barbapiccola is lost in the book, and with the worries that Felcia would struggle to get everyone off the ship in time, she proposes that they use emergency airlock in pairs to create air bubbles big enough for ten people at a time and use them to get all the crew off the ship and onto the Edward Israel - the captain not being under Murtry's command as its his ship and is also a decent bloke - is happy to accommodate the extra people. In the Book the Barbapiccola is lost before fusion is restored and her plan winds up saving everyone's lives - though without the Lithium haul, options for the Belter on the ground where limited. I forget how the rest of the details go, still rather similar - I think Fayez is on the ground with Elvi and the recovery from the flood is also faster - though the blindness sets in pretty fast - but with Elvi helping Miller-bot to end the proto molecule stuff, you get a much more tangible, though certainly no less strange description of what she saw when she passed through that "eye of an angry god". Also Miller-bot is there slightly longer and Holden plays a match-three game on his hand terminal after a few days without sleep or amphetamines to keep him up. When Miller-bot is broken, he's apparently so heavy Elvi can't move him so he disbands himself and encourages she pick up the core to toss it in - and its described as weighing like 90 kilos on its own, so she really has to try - but Murty is getting 1% of all monetary value gained from this planet and that is why he's so keep to protect the technology - and studying the protomolrecule tech like the ring does eventually yield some cool advances in materials among other things. Anyway, that's all I got off the top of my memory - because the next book was so much more eventful - if we're lucky we wo t have seen the last of Clarissa Mao and Bobbie still has a lot of stuff to do...
Yep, I liked the way it worked in the books much better as well - but I understand the time constraints. In the end this show got cancelled & Bezos bought it back to life. Yeah, you can say the fans saved it, but in the end even with Bezos behind it, this is a costly experiment for Amazon; the numbers were not there for Season 3 so no way Amazon could pay for a long Season 4 which would allow all the other bits/Characters in the book to be included
I thought it was good, but felt the way they reshuffled things to spread out the protagonist role did reduce some of the tension. This book felt so overwhelming because there were so many pots in the fire and competing goals, but this version feels more one thing after another, like how Holden isn't blowing off Miller to try to keep everyone from killing each other but instead resolves the local issues and then Miller shows up. It is a really minor change but completely changes the tone and meaning of events, and this season was full of those changes. Still excellent, but a different story.
There were great moments in Season 4 but I found the first three Seasons much more interesting. The hyper focus on a villainous bad guy felt a bit unlike all of the previous Seasons and it kinda made the story line boring - at least all the scenes on Illus. It feels like an inappropriate arc introduced by people who weren't a part of the original production. At least, that's what it seems like. I'd much rather the show be more sympathetic towards Murtry, or just tone it down and focus on the planet itself. There were definitely awesome moments but for me much of Illus dragged the story down a bit. The kind of thing studios like to do to add tension, when really the show didn't need it at all. And I think Avasarala's new husband was a whiny, sour, unsupportive twat that clearly doesn't understand her or appreciate the situations and experience that got her to where she was. The worst casting I've seen in a quality show like The Expanse. The weird thing is that the writing for the character is also out of character of the relationship shown in the first three Seasons. Bizarre. Everything else I loved.
I've just got two episodes to go of this season and I must say the space based scenes remind me of Interstellar, while the colony scenes had a western feel to them. One thing I love about The Expanse is that the characters have to apply science and engineering to solve problems rather than just press buttons and ask the computer.
I have to say, most shows struggle having multiple different storylines across different areas but this season was amazing. Usually when a show does this (Follows different characters story's in different locations) I get bored of one and can't wait to get back to another (game of thrones is a perfect example) but with the Expanse whether it was Earth, mars, the new world, the Belters etc I was hooked.
from a show viewers perspective, I had no problems with the story slowing down as at the end of season 3 was so world changing and opened up the world so much and felt like an end of a big ass arc, this season felt like an opening of a new arc/adventure and i was fine with it and i think its still incredible storywise. What i wasnt a fan of was the new characters(and an old one) being so unlikable to me when the show wanted me to empathize with them so bad, such as the belters in new terra the med tec lady and the scientist lady plus Naomi, the show wanted us to empathize with them so bad and tried to make the "bad" guys so generically "evil" that it felt forced when those characters themselves(scientist, belters med tec naomi) were just as unlikable if not more so. naomi is getting really annoying too and for the first time ever for this series i started skipping her scenes especially when she gets preachy/ holier than though or the "it will work itself out" attitude that you find in shounen anime ( and this masterpiece aint no shounen. sorry if you dont get the reference but anime watchers will get it ), which saddens me sooo much because this show is so great.... that being said though this shit is the best thing in english speaking television imo, I'm surprised that there arent more people watching/talking about this and that it was going to be cancelled after the 3rd season of which capped of such a great story arc, I cant fuckin wait for season 5.
Binge watched all seasons but season 4 this week. Will see season 4 again soon to keep up the flow. Amus character development is awesome. Him going blind and was breaking and having to rely completely on Holden did something to him. He is somehow regaining something that is lost, like a faint echo. Also, after binge watching I noticed Bobbie is funny as hell everytime she tries new food, lol. Especially the cucumbers. She is in the back of the scene all the time while the others are talking munching to her heart's content.
3, 2, 4, 1 3) 9.5 2) 9.3 4) 9 1) 8.5 I only say this because it took a little too get to know the characters... If it wasn't for the two previous season it would be a 9, but they raised the bar imho. Still that first season is excellent but 2 and 3 are so good.. Bah... I love this show.
Every season of this show is so completely different from the other. I'd have to go with Season 3 as my favorite though. Every episode just seemed to get better and better than the previous
In no way did it suck. In fact it was a lot better than I expected. That being said... (Didn't read the books) The fact is the dynamic of Earth, Mars and the Belt playing out the very realistic and relatable story of humans colonizing the Solar System was SO DAMN INTRIGUING that the introduction of the alien storyline was a distraction and a disappointment. That the alien storyline upended and made pointless everything that came before it (Belters helping Inners. Mars no longer being a military power) was just so much less interesting than the show was before. Again, still a great show, and easily the best sci-fi on TV today, but still... the show was so much more interesting to me when it was much more grounded and exploring the idea of humans colonizing the solar system. The only real flaws I felt were with Avrasarala. First of all it was too obvious that they knew we liked it when she cursed (LOVE HER!) and they made her curse too much. It was obvious fan service and so it lost its specialness. Secondly, I thought political infighting was was she was best at I remember at the start of the season when her storyline of running against someone started my wife and I laughed at how she was going to destroy the upstart. That she lost wasn't the problem, it was how badly she did. It didn't make sense. She should have been far more adept a political operative, It was a betrayal of her character.
This is a good take. I will say that Alex being confined to the ship is accurate to the books. In fact, in the books, Naomi never even sets foot on Ilus. It's just Holden and Amos the whole time. Also, I can understand the feels about Klaus and Drummer not having a lot to do; Klaus was out of the fight by this point (in the books he's a much more cartoonish villain) and Drummer is a combination of several different characters.
Ashford--- I couldn't stand that guy at first. His belter creole sucked, his character sucked etc etc. But then something happened, he started growing on me. And when he got spaced, I was like NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! F**k... I would have liked to have gotten more backstory on him. Wasn't he sort of like Anderson Dawes' street muscle? And when/where did all the scars happen. What was with the baby scene? Dammit!!
This 4th season helps setup the problems that the three groups will face going forward. The Earth's policing of the new worlds, the belters and their plight are magnified by their conflict with Mars. The new season calls back to this conflict perfectly
Absolutely - I enjoyed the heck out of this season! The Belter Creole has embedded itself into my psyche, which is indicative of how brilliantly they created this language.
My parents made the mistake of watching saeson 4 first. Dad seems to enjoy it but both he and mom have an issue with hearing the Earth President swearing as much as she does.
I really likes this season, not as much as the previous ones, this list season makes a fertile soil for the next one. Also the amount of "fuks" Avasarala thrown this season was too high
@@ramiro4710 Actually, this is still waaay down on how many ways she manages to be rude in the books. But in the Books early on she explains why she does it . no spoilers, but like most things with her, it is thought out 😊
I think the only thing I really didn't like about Season 4 was how they made choices to cut things from the book to push the belter narrative. The whole point of Cibola Burn was that both RCE and the belters have valid points, and it's a matter of perspective. The show made it more black and white and made Murtry seem more evil for the sake of having a clear antagonist and that defeats the whole point. No one is right, and no one is wrong in this scenario. They should have pushed that grey morality harder to make that more clear.
This was the best take on this season that I've heard so far. Others seem (to me) to be reaching so far just to find something to criticize about this season, I guess because the book that this season is based in (Cibola Burn) is widely considered to be the least compelling in the series. That being the case, I'm awestruck that this season manged to be (arguably) the best so far. I like how willing you are in giving praise to good work without having to create vapid criticisms just to add nuance to your comments about the show. Love your videos!
Glad you enjoyed my video :) I personally hold Season 3 as my favourite thus far. And while there are always things to nitpick, this show is as strong as its ever been.
@@RowanJColeman s3 is also one of my favorites. but I really wish they did the recap with cats with all seasons. what is your take on Netflix's The Witcher?
I've read the books up to the 8th(the final 9th book being released this year), book 4 of the series is the slowest book. But book 5 is by far my favorite and the most explosive book. I cannot wait for season 5 of the show.
Season 4 was good enough for me to watch it all straight through entire night and taking day off at work next day :P If I was forced to complain I would say that not all actors play was convincing. I love Marco, absolutely perfect play. His preaching and winning people with words. Everything matches in that guy. Ashford fantastic! As Rowan said, instinctively not trustworthy, but eventually turns fair and just. The problems starts with, interestingly, main character of James Holden. Acting IMO is not most convincing. Too much clenching teeth and anger that is somehow felt like pretended. Not adequate to situation. Well, actually problem also ends here :P Also I got the feeling that James Holden(not actor, but actual character) is constantly totally clueless, doing things he doesn't understand, for the reasons he doesn't understand, but goes and does it anyway. Then shit hits the fan and everyone correct his mistakes, but he still is clueless and somehow accidentally is "special". Doesn't fit the role of ship commander and key plot character in my book ;) Now that Miller is gone I think it is going to be hard to find interesting place for Holden in upcoming events. He will play a role in Nyomi Nagata story, but as a support rather than center of action. Mars citizens morale going down after realizing there is no more need to suffer for greater good on hostile planet, I felt it, really well shown. Fall of Draper as well. What I am disgusted with is the fact that when Holden was kicking out temporary hatch on their hideout in alien structure metal line was still attached to it but we can clearly see that it is not moving along kicking on camera takes showing Holden trying :P(joke, but is it ? Considering realistic and very detail-oriented series history ;))
Season 4 did a good job at giving us both Cibola Burn + Gods of Risk (slightly altered) while cutting out some of the lighter-weight content (Elvi and Holden, the back and forth fighting between the settlers and RCE security both in space and on the ground) but including the developments that have very much (for the better) changed the characters Drummer and Ashford. Also, letting Avasarala off the leash with her true verbal self (as she is in the books) has really brought her character around to it's perfection. I was, having read the books, unsure about "The Investigator" chapters from the book but they did a fantastic job of visualizing those and letting Miller be Miller both there and then when working with Holden and Elvi.
The books are structured in trilogies, so this season was basically the beginning of Act 2 and setting up the events for S5 and 6. It's a lot like S1 in that regard.
I still think Avasarala was being completely sincere in the memorial scene. Politically manipulative too, but those aren't mutually exclusive. Her super-power is being manipulative with brutal (if selective) honesty. I think the politics arc was her wavering from that and the memorial was her returning to form. The tragedy is her husband losing faith/trust in her and viewing what she said as just manipulation.
The proto molecule planet......what happened there? I liked the villain and his collision with Amos at all times. This show has become one of my all time favorite shows, just great characters in an expansive story.
The season seemed to end way too fast, not much happened and some characters were underused. Still better than most of the sci-fi shows out there except for Dark (maybe) and i'm grateful it is still being produced.
I had a hard time with Bobbi Draper turning to a life of crime, given that she wasn’t starving, homeless, or broken. Her journey to the dark side was much too casual. I did like that the story was more focused on smaller events. I don’t think the stakes could be believably raised, after last season, and still be enjoyable. It would pack as much punch as JJ Abrams’ Death Star Destroyers. At a certain point, it stops being fun, and starts being funny. RIP Ashford! 😢
I think even worse is her total lack of common sense in dealing with the criminals. She thinks she can drag away her nephew from an organized crime syndicate, letting him go his own merry way with no protection afterwards? It's not just a lack of street smarts, it's total stupidity.
I don't mind the smaller scale/scope of things since the whole point of the protomolecule is that you're never quite certain of its scope, but what ultimately killed me this season was how pointless and inflated 90% of it felt. Every single time they cut to Avasarala I cringed: she was either in the cockpit of some plane or in her office, commenting about the election or Holden not keeping her in the loop, and it ALWAYS ended with her walking away somewhere like a "badass" after saying some "badass" one-liner with damn or fuck in it (it felt equally as bad as listening to all the cock jokes in GoT season 8). Like, what was the point? Cut out all of Avasarala's scenes and you don't lose a single important thing. I had grown to like Bobbie as a character thanks to her development, but I definitely didn't find her interesting enough to warrant a side-story all on her own...and, as expected, it was a snooze-fest the whole way through. I didn't care for any of those characters the show suddenly wanted us to care for. The guy (brother?) who got kidnapped? The criminal drug lord who did it, but was secretly a squeaky clean police officer? The belter drug cartel thing? Felt like her story belonged in an episode of Breaking Bad. Drummer was Drummer so that was just more of the same (excluding the highlight of this season: Ashford) so I was "meh" towards her. Outside of that, I'm really starting to hate Naomi. She was not only the stupidest character this season, but one of the hardest to tolerate, a complete and utter hypocrite with a one-sided sense of "justice" that only ironically benefits belters, despite how she lashes out at everyone else for thinking only of their own people exactly like she does. Belters kill 25 innocent people and she doesn't twitch a finger. A guy kills ONE belter (who had it coming btw) and she blows a casket so hard she almost has a heart attack.
I feel bad for all the Martian military vet characters. Basically brainwashed into killing machines for 'the good of Mars and her people' and than tossed aside by their government when they aren't needed anymore.
I don't think it sucked, but it just wasn't as memorable as season 3, which I think has been the apex so far. It felt more like season 1 than seasons 2 or 3 in that it was more of a slow burn than a crazy roller coaster, with it sharing many similarities such as a criminal drama and a focus on character and world development.
I agree. The fact that it was a slow burn, per say, I don't think was the issue. It was that what we got, especially in the new alien planet, wasn't that good. I was expecting dealing with new interesting science fiction ideas. What we got was a tsunami, micro-organisms that make you blind, and slugs that kill on contact. Really, slugs that kill on contact!! I was so disappointed with this season. But it does look great and the characters are fun to watch.
Season 4 apparently fit the books very well, shadowing Cibola Burn. I'm not up to that book yet, but those who have read it say that the show is very loyal to the book, adding in drama and stream lining the story here and there.
I think this is my new all time favorite scifi show. Before the expanse, Stargate Sg1 was my all time favorite scifi show. But The Expanse does a great job with blending real science with science fiction. A lot of the tech in the expanse is actually based on real technology, some is based on theoretical tech, others are based on technology that is being researched and developed right now. The way Space travel works on the show is actually very realistic for the most part. Traveling at an extreme velocity and stopping too fast, or decelerating too fast, can kill you. On the show they actually accelerate halfway to thier destination, then flip the ship to decelerate for the other half of the trip. That's pretty cool. Like I said, they do a great job with blending theoretical tech with real technology.
Reading so many comments here mentioning Jared Harris... googled him to see which character he played and quickly realized the reason he always reminds of Richard Harris every time I see him in something. I loooove RH from watching "camelot" countless times as a kid. Can't believe it took this long to connect the dots!
Adolphus Murtry was actually the good guy who was hunting down terrorist and the people who were helping the terrorists while being extremely easygoing about people committing serious crimes, some that could have gotten him or others killed.
TBH I sympathized with Murtry. He didn't do anything Rocinate's crew wouldn't do. Heck, Holden made threats towards him for mere putting their precious Nagata (she was complaining really hard this season btw) in harm's way, meanwhile he lost dozens of people in that landing pad attack and it is somehow supposed to be a shocker that he was hostile or not forthcoming with his supplies. And they let that terrorist stay behind, meanwhile Murtry is to be charged for killing people who were 100% guilty and willing to do more. It bugged me till the end. Btw. Murtry kind of breaks the 4th wall acknowledging that he always plays the bad guy: "I must have that kind of face" :) Shame Ashford got killed. Strathairn is one heck of an actor. I loved watching him and Gee working together. I also really enjoyed closer look at Martian society and situation back on Earth. Alien machinery left me cold, I suppose we will have to wait longer to get SOME answers. I can't wait for the next season though, it is gonna start with a bang and a lot of people dead.
There is still a difference between simply threat, and following up on it. But that's what makes him such a good antagonist, they are a lot more compelling if you understand why they are reacting in such a way. I probably have to rewatch the lat episode again, but I was under the assumption that they still get prosecuted I know, this is stupid, but my only problem with the season was, that it reminded me too much of "Mass Effect: Andromeda" ... and not in a good way. Not that the plot-points on their own were bad, but the memories associated to them, simply lessened my enjoyment.
@Know One I am a sociopath because I sympathize with someone? I wonder what you would do in Murtry's shoes. Almost killed in terrorist attack with a lot of his colleagues from work actually being dead (the heck "that isn't even 2 dozen" means? what if it were two dozen?), himself injured and aware of further attempts of terrorist activity and so on.
@@Deckaio Yup, Nagata shared sob story about how she used to be a terrorist and managed to get away with it and Holy Holden offered to put in his report that terrorist girl was sucked into the void of space with no hope of recovering her. Why bother court with judging whether and how much someone is guilty. And the difference between threats and actions exists because the trigger for the action did not happen. After all Nagata or Amos weren't hurt (unlike Murtry's people) by Murtry so there was no need for revenge. Meanwhile when Murtry was after Holden Amos did not have a single problem with whacking Wei and would have killed Murtry himself if Holden did not had a sudden need to bring people to justice. That said I do not have the problem Rocinate sided with belters, only that whole holier-than-thou feel is annoying without anyone in the show acknowledging it happens. Fortunately, I did not play Andromeda :)
Enjoyed the way the characters were written this season, the twists and turns, how fortunes changed for some of the main characters. Story feels more like Babylon 5 now than other space operas, and that is a good thing!
I like the way it was. However my thoughts were that the protomolecule had been contaminated with the green stuff and Rossi crew would use the sample of not contaminated protomolecule hidden onboard their ship to restore the facilities on Elos.
Along with the writing, I really like how Gunny looks like a female marine. They chose an actor that looks like she could be a soldier rather than a 4'6" size 6 waif. An enjoyable season that got better as it went on. I only discovered The Expanse in 2019 and it really was the best entertainment vehicle (including films) that I saw last year. The writing, the world building, the attention to detail, the fabulous music and the characters have combined to make this a truly wonderful franchise. I pray it continues this streak of excellence and doesn't do a GoT on us. ps Totally agree with you on the MCU. It ended with Infinity War for me as I was hugely disappointed with Endgame.
Murtry did nothing wrong! ... well he started a fight with Amos. That can't be considered a good/right decision under any circumstances really since it will never end well for whoever decides to do so... so Murphy was wrong there. But I still think that while Morty is an asshole, he wasn't necessarily wrong most of the time. Everything Marty did for most of the season at least was fully justified.
With everything going on in the world today, I don't know a tv series more appropriately needed than this show. I'm so grateful that Amazon kept it going!! I'm beyond excited for S5 and have told everyone I know they need to see it! It's hard to get me hooked on any series so I know they believe me that it's THAT good. I grew up Mormon so a lot of my family probably won't because of the rating (16+) but my brother (a bishop) is totally "on board".☝️😂
Mike Dignum Up to book 6 Drummer is in a few Chapters from Book 5 but she’s not really important. She has Bulls role in Season 3 and takes U.K. the chief engineers role in S2. Ashford does in boom 3. Drummer will probably take Michio Pa’s role in S5&6 as she took Bulls and Pa’s in S3.
@@zaprese Yea we still need Cara Gee being the Camina Drummer we love through Book 7. I do appreciate how they handled the transition of characters and roles in the book vs show change-ups.
I wouldn't say it sucked, but it was certainly weaker than the previous seasons. However, its source material was also one of the weaker books in the series (not as weak as the previous book which was relegated to the last half of season 3). Plus, considering it followed a major war and knowing what's coming up it ends up feeling less exciting. The other major issue is that a whole lot of this book involved internal struggles, which are hard to depict on screen, and scientific investigation, which is boring to depict on screen. I know they TRIED to depict the feeling of awe the Rocinante crew and Earther scientists felt on coming to the new planet by switching to anamorphic lenses and aspect ratio, but I don't think it actually worked very well.
For those who keep asking, no I have not read the books. That is allowed right?
The books were better.
The show looks great but the script writers messed with the story unnecessarily. Perhaps just to justify their paychecks.
It is allowed alright, but you're really missing out. They are reasonaby well-written and absoluteley unboring.
@@orcaflotta7867 Stay away from the books and take the series on its picture and picture story value. there is a lot coming up over the next three books related to the series.
@@kevrenshaw6177 Problem is that I had read a number of Exp. novels already long before the series came out. And they are really great, and up to a certain point the series stays true to the much superior literary blueprint. Still more or less just a retelling.
That's fine, but asking if the season sucked was dumb as a box of moon rocks.
I was devastated when Ashford died he was my favourite character
Seriously was waiting that whole scene, hoping for the inevitable rescue....and it never came. Helluva way to end the season imo
Really grew to like his charector through 2 seasons, did not like him at the begining but was genuinely sad when he floated.
I hope drummer and daws avenges him.
Me too. Yet, that was a beautifully composed scene, it really payed final respects to the man.
@@new-dystopia This. The Ashford we came to know would have pulled the trigger one last time.
That said I saw this coming when Drummer said she would not join and took the bottle back with her. And the whole space shanty funeral with the bagpipes was beautifully done. The character definitely deserved that.
May want to put a spoiler alert edit on this for people who are not caught up or have not read the books fully. :). AND YES. I was absolutely also devastated.
Murtry: "Someday you and I are going to get bloody."
Amos: "How about now? I'm free right now."
Man my favorite thing with Amos is, when he always thanks someone before proceeding to the beat the shit out of them
"Does that mean were not fucking anymore?"
Wha what?? Hm N No...
Real smooth Amos😂😂
The best statement when somebody is all talk and no action.
Amos is unbearable. The less screen time his character gets the better. It’s like his dialogue was written by a thirteen year old. Every scene involving the character is the exact same.
@@andrewkennedy-reagan3289 yikes.. I'm sorry you are so shallow
I agree with the take that Drummer and Ashford didn’t seem to be doing much, but seeing their relationship develop was amazing. They had super good chemistry together.
They had very little to do with book 4.
@@cb2000a If i remember correctly, they werent in the books at all, so it makes sense that they would be "filler" characters.
@@highgrounder5238 I don't remember Ashford, but Drummer had a very small part of book 4. It was mostly Holden, Naomi, Amos, and Alex. And I'm pretty sure Naomi never went down the well.
@@cb2000a She went just at the end before they leave Ilus, but only briefly and i remebr her saying that her knees hurt.
Who was the baby Ashford was holding in a flashback scene?
"Thomas Jane is one of those actors who should be a way bigger star than he is"
100% agree. He's my favorite actor.
He dosen't need it.
Definitely my favorite character in the show.
I got teared up when Ashford died. I really didn't expect it and I really didn't like it. Ashford became one of my favorite characters without me fully realizing it, until his death. Damn them for killing him, but props for giving him a good death.
DarkAshenfall tbh his character arc in the books was limited to the ring gate battle in season 3. I was so happy that they made his character much deeper in the show, and I figured they would kill him off eventually. If he had to die, well, I’m glad he got an awesome death scene. Made me cry 😢
I thought Was so obvious he was gonna die, and the baby he was holding in an old video from a few eps previous was naomi's son who was the the cause of his death
"To the execution dock I have come
Tili go
to the execution block
for to sail.
I was sick and nigh to death
but I vow with my every breath
For go with wisdom ways when I sail"
'Hats off to the character (Miller)' I see what you did there.
Tehehehe
The only thing that sucked was the new actor for Avasarala’s husband.
Completely wrong for the character.
True. Made me miss Babu Bhatt.
I agree.They could have made her a widow
@@erikramaekers63 soon my friend.....soon
Johnathan Gopen yes I thought I was the only one who cared about that.
Abdul Rashid seriously?
The highlight of this amazing season was the Ashford death scene. I absolutely agree it was heart breaking and emotional. The singing was hauntingly brilliant. Great season with many many great points. Really need to release season 5 one episode a week though.
I'm in two minds about all at once or per week. So many of these episodes end on a cliffhanger, I wonder if it would build more hype to wait a week for the resolution.
Wait. Where is the obligation to binge watch any show? I tended to view them when time allowed, usually no more than two on any occasion. You think they would go better once a week, simple, watch them that way. There is an actual choice here. Not trying to be snippy, just illuminating the obvious.
Solomon Gibson III yeah I get that but it’s like when you have a box of cookies. You don’t have one and stop do you. I binged the whole series in a couple of days. I just think they should let them out slowly to build up word of mouth and anticipation. That’s the one thing tv has over streaming services.
It’s just my opinion.
@@scouseandy07 I grant you the anticipation angle, if that is a missing component one appreciates, but word-of-mouth I don't believe has much effect. It, certainly, has helped numerous shows, 'Mrs. Maisel', 'Jessica Jones', etc., etc. Word-of-mouth is a benefit whether a show is weekly or all-at-once. As for streaming vs. television, I've been around a while, and grew up with the traditional weekly viewing ways, but think the jury is still out on which has the narrative advantage. Honestly, I don't see either being dominant.
What a series drop gives the viewer is a choice on how they wish to watch a show, something regular tv does not.
I may eat more than one cookie, but I don't have to consume the entire box. You're asking streaming platforms to favor those who can't resist consuming the entire box, depriving those who can of the option of choosing for themselves.
andrew latham brah I started looking up the song Ashford sang the Ballad of captain kidd... R.I.P. to Ashford- even though he was a Dick at first.. but who isn’t..
Ashford had a worthy send off. He became my favorite characters.
My issues with Season 4 are similar to issues in other shows lately:
-Avasarala went from being confident to being an asshole. Her "new" husband was miscast & poorly written.
-Did the writers have some quota requiring the F bomb every 15 seconds?
-Nagata's cringey motivational speeches
- Some of the dialogue was just illogical & cringey like "HOW ARE YOU GOING TO FIX THIS??" When the problem is an uncontrollable natural disaster.
Joel D dialogue isn’t perfect in real life... why expect perfection in dialogue under stressful situations in a fictional real life. Real life situations usually don’t go as your trained to handle them- but ya make it work. Perfect Dialogue, is like perfect beauty- it becomes uglier the more you make it better. Let me copyright that.
MMB628 Jr nothing’s perfect but there is unrealistic vs. realistic.
In the book she drops the f bomb every 15 seconds and is a confidant asshole...
I don't know about Avasarala, she was kinda an asshole from Season 1 and I actually at some point even expected her to be a bad guy. Well, she didnt turn out to be one but for the asshole part - she's been always like that.
@@algalkin I think the difference is that in prev seasons Avasarala was an asshole on "our side". In this one she was just a plain asshole.
Nothing topped that mid-season finale in 2, gorgeous. Sad to see Jane go again.
I am so fucking sad that Miller is gone. He was far and away my favorite character; even as only a ghost.
I believed her when she went off script at the eulogy.... True, Heartbreaking scene.
Thomas Jane has returned as director of an episode in season 5.
I actually loved the Drummer/Ashford arc, but maybe that's because I knew what it was leading to? The Expanse writers really know how to set up and execute a meaningful death scene, don't they.
show watcher only ... gotta say thought season 4 was less interesting ... hope they sway me back with s5
Book reader here... I think the next season will be a lot closer to the dynamics of seasons 2 and 3!
In comparison to the book this was better than I expected. That book dragged. The cut a lot of unnecessary stuff. Miller’s partner from season one was actually a part of book 4. He was a part of that private security team. Although if I recall he was on the ship in the air the whole time. Also a whole sub plot where they capture Naomi that he was a part of. I think S5 and S6!(depending how the end this) should be a lot better
Yeah, about that season 5...
S4 is my least favorite season, as I disliked all of the Belters on Ilus and disliked most of the plot lines involved with those characters.
Murtry was a bad guy but the Ilus Belters earned what they got. I thought Ashford and Drummer had great arcs.
I feel S5 was better overall except for some of Naomi's arc dragged and also the final episode was very awkward.
Rip. Yeah I feel like s1-3 created tension and plot from competent ppl facing complex problems and had us really asking questions about who is really right. Even when someone did something harsh we could justify it or at least ask questions. In s4-5 the entire plot is motivated by psychopaths. It's hard for me to get behind the bad guy's point of view, Murtry barely had a point of view. It's like they couldn't find a way to have an adversary so they just made one up just for the sake of having one. Just makes the whole thing shallow. Makes me even more mad about the end of Ashford's arc.
Seasons 1 to 3 are amazing. S4 is a mess.
While some characters may have done little in a season, I think it shows that the showrunners are a bit more comfortable with Amazon and can properly set up antagonists and slow burn some story threads like Okoye and Drapers. I mean they couldve eliminated Bobbies story and stuck just to planet X but they kept the scope on the entire universe. Love this series.
I agree with them taking there time. while season one was a single story arc both season two and three felt split in there stories arcs with one being warped up half way through and finishing out the season with another. Don't get me wrong all four seasons are absolutely awesome but it felt like they were trying to get through as much as possible before the inevitable cancellation which I assume they were trying to stave off with the reveal of the Ring Network. Here though it feels like they know (barring unforeseen circumstances) that they will be around for a while so they can slow down the pace and let it breath, which also helps with the reduced episode count, something I usually hate but here felt natural because they weren't trying to cram multiple arcs into one season.
@@brentstar323
Agreed, also the source material for this season isnt that much... they go to a planet and stop a thing so having less than 13 episodes is fine. Next season though I hope is chalk full because I dont see how they do all of the book in one season.
A wonderful season, capped off by the heartbreaking loss of two of my favorite characters, Miller & Ashford. Ashford singing his way out was amazing, and yeah, I cried. His character arc was done so well- he never lost the core of who he was, but his vision expanded, along with his heart.
As for the MCU- for me, the only the Ant-Man + the Wasp pictures show any promise for the future. Wouldn't it be great if we got Edgar Wright finally? Well, a gal can dream.
Season 4 was solid, though it was my least favorite of the series.
The lower budget is apparent. Individual scenes still look amazing! But the overall scope was severely narrowed. Fewer extras. Fewer planets. Fewer action or establishing scenes in space. Smaller sets (the Nauvoo scenes are now two people in that singular room). They also turned Chrisjen into a bumbling, stumbling idiot for most of the season.
Don't get me wrong, the quality of the show is still high, but compared to its first and second season, the budget cuts are painfully obvious.
It was book 4....it was pretty much about New Terra. You want space wars and other planets then wait for season 5 and beyond. Trust me, books 7 and 8 are awesome!
What budget cuts? Since Amazon bought and saved The Expanse everything is and looks much more expensive than in earlier seasons.
They said the budget was the same as it was before Amazon revived it.
It's really difficult to ignore the extremely poor re-casting choice for Chrisjen's husband. His character was completely different from the prior season's actor (Brian George). Instead of a tender, loving husband, he came off like some kind of arm's length campaign advisor, and that's completely aside from the fact he looks at least 20 years her junior.
I really cannot fathom the reasons that they decided he was the best choice to replace Brian George, and furthermore, whether it was the writing or the performance or a combination of both, it really killed immersion for me.
Yeah. He keeps talking in the most patronizing, disingenuous voice possible that I was half expecting he would try to push Chrisjen out an airlock.
It was fine.
Cibola Burn was in fact a reset.
The next two books Nemesis Games
And Babylons ashes are a second trilogy.
People were so blown away by season 3 they expected season 4 to have the same stakes and level of tension.
Well it couldn’t. Abaddon’s Gate was the end of that part of the story.
I read this "reset" argument all the time by people defending s.4. It's a piss-poor excuse. Season 3 was so very excellent, and ended with the promise of amazing exploration of 1300 habitable systems. Instead we got a tiny story involving one system. It was a huge fail when measured against viewer expectations at the end of s.3.
But even the tiny story was poorly told this time around. The visuals were confusing at times,, and the story on Ilus seemed completely contrived. We are not given any info about the location of the Belter settlement. It could be seaside. It could be 2000' above sea level. Then the tidal wave rolls in. Then the people all get infected with a native organism that blinds them (except for Holden). Then deadly slugs appear out of nowhere and start dropping from the ceiling on top of the blind people. It all seemed highly contrived and entirely improbable, and it quickly destroyed my suspension of disbelief.
I've read through book 6, so I know the stakes will be higher this coming season. Their was an elegance to s.1 - s.3. If you watched carefully, everything was foreshadowed to some degree, you had a good chance to guess what was coming, and all of the characters acted in predictable and consistent fashion when confronted with problems that required decisions and acting upon those decisions. It was perfect storytelling. A lot of that was missing from s.4. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best and a return to form for s.5.
@@Yesquire0 don’t agree. The book Cibola Burn is one of my favorites in the series. I’m glad they chose to focus on one planet, it let the story settle in and focus on what would be the problems of
Settling a new world. I wish they had focused more on why the RCE scientists were concerned and why their concerns turned out to be right.
The series has foreshadowed a lot of season 5. Also books 7 and 8. It’s a lot more hidden but it’s there.
I think it is a reset. And I don’t agree with you that character behaviors were missing. They weren’t. They were consistent with what we’ve seen so far. I wish they had spent more time on Elvi and Miller, I liked season 4 a lot and it was the beginning of the next movement in a symphony of stars.
@@davedahl4461 Insofar as we are both going to turn on the TV on 12/16/20 and watch the start of s.5, our little debate here is of no consequence except to maybe make us wonder, and make anybody reading this exchange wonder, why avid fans could be so far apart on their feelings about s.4.
So, let me provide some details. The openng sequence for s4.e1. displayed a farily large number of ships in the vicinity of the ring. It was a visual mish-mash. You couldn't tell which ships were filled with refegee belters and which were Martian patrol vessels. You couldn't tell whom the Martians were firing upon, and it wasn't really clear how the Barbicola managed to excape being destroyed. It seemed to be fleeing towards the right at high speed, and their did not seem to be any flip-and-burn before it entered The Ring. Are there no longer any speed limits on Ring entry? It left me thoroughly confused.
Later on, Holder drops down a vertical shaft to travel underground through the abandoned Ring-builder facility on Ilus. He is never shown transferring onto a horizontal conveyance. The protomolecule (at least on Ilus) is defeated by whatever that "eye" is, and we discover that Holden is not deep within Ilus, but near the surface. "Near" is a relative term, for it still looks like a major vertical climb to get outside the structure and radio the Roci. Holden, who is majorly sleep-deprived from trying to lead the tidal wave survivors around throught the green slug showers, and shaken from his mano-et-mano with Murtry, makes the climb anyway. We are not shown how he did it. He just announces he's going ot climb to daylight, and then he's standing outside.
Those are just two examples of things I felt were sub-optimal story-telling of the sort we never had to sit through during the first three seasons. It reminded me (shudder!!!) of how Game of Thrones' story-telling crashed and burned in the final couple of seasons.
I've told everybody within earshot that The Expanse was the best show, ever, bar none, in any genre, any era. I"ve now decided, based upon the disappointment that was s.4, to bide my time and see how things play out from here before revisiting whether or not it is the GoaT for TV entertainment. It's not so much that s.4 stinks, but how much of a decline it represents when measured against s.1-s.3. BTW, I do not think s.1 was "slow" or that half of it was spent "world building". I though s.1 was fabulous, and can't readily accept the idea that the first episode in each of the three trilogies has to be less than fully satisfying because it is a "reset".
@@Yesquire0 it’s a difference of opinion. Anyone that actually reads all of that will shrug and make their own judgements. I enjoyed it, I don’t need it to be perfect. I still love Cibola Burn as one of my favorite books. You’ve done a good job expressing your argument, and your disappointment. It hasn’t affected my love for it one bit. I do see it as a reset, that doesn’t weaken it one bit for me. I’m looking forward to season 5. And the final season 6 although I am sad that they can’t complete the story.
I am looking forward to book 9, though I admit some trepidation about it.
@@davedahl4461 I was greatly disappointed to hear about the production ending after the 6th season. Some fans have suggested that it could contnue as a spin-off of the main series, as I am told there is a 30-year time gap between the end of Book 6 and the beginning of Book 7 which might require re-casting with aged actors. I also have some hope for more season's beyound six engedered by the fact that The Who are planning their 47th Final World Tour. I think there is money to be made on the final three books, and those seeking to make that money will find a way to make it.
Evaluating entertainment is never completely subjective, but never in the history of the Web has anybody changed another person's opinion about a beloved piece of entertainment, so debating endlessly is a waste of time. Nice talkng to you about The Expanse.
That Robot Miller is frickin hilarious
"Who... _what_ are you?"
"Fucked, lady. What I am, is fucked."
Miller-bot
It was pretty cathartic to see someone else interact with Miller before he went
All in all, I have very much disliked this show, but if they have brought the Miller-bot to life on screen I may just have to watch whatever episode(s) it's in. Definitely my favorite part of that book.
@@j.w.m.415 Shorter time period, but they do. There's a grav-lev type system Holden uses to get that distance, instead of riding the bot. He does show up though.
Pros: the expanse still lives.
Cons: transitioning from all out war and deepening discoveries of proto-molecule to “peace” naturally feels less intense.
I’m hopeful for the next season.
In the books this one was like the slow burn, before the next books which become full out wars.
All you want is all out war? That's stupid.
UnknownHumanoid why you Pensa? in case it’s unclear let me expand my comment (lolz). The key phrase here is by comparison. The expanding discovery of the proto molecule, its capacity and purpose was intriguing. The cat and mouse politics and conflicts were intriguing. The escalation to, and battles within the war combined with the above had a certain intensity. The discovery of and entry into the ring is almost a crescendo point. After this is all established it will of course be difficult to match the same intensity - by comparison. The story evolved and - by comparison this season was more shall we say “slow boil”. In comparison to say an asteroid hurtling at earth and you know, moving on its own. Like all fans I’m glad the show is back and am hopeful that space John snow, finds his balls or what ever he’s looking for out there....
@@UnknownHumanoid Actually yes, since seasons 1-3 were basically "all out war". I might have liked this as a prequel. But Holden; after getting a fundamental "enlightenment" of the entire history of a more developed civilization, suddenly goes back to being suspicious of protomolecule tech and thinking blowing it up will help again and again, when it's obviously shown to be a power and force way beyond anything he could hope to control or understand. THAT'S stupid.
7 episodes in and I hit a wall. The woman running for office and her gay husband is painful to watch. Piss poor acting and too much "Get the fuck out of my office you campaign manager fucking cocksuckers!"
Watching a bunch of scummy belters holing up in a giant rhinoceros horn isn't floating my boat either. Let me guess. Holden is gonna do the right thing. And Amos is still an autistic tough guy so look out.
It is descending into self parody. The bright spot is the Belter girl and the Bourne Identity guy. The only likeable people left on the show with a character arc.
.
Burn Gorman is one of the most under-appreciated actors of the last decade. He deserves his up and commences like Jared Harris!
He was really good indeed.
Yeh, when the hell is jared Harris coming back?
@@lylejames965 No word yet if he is returning for season 5.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Burns in this series because I became a fan after watching him in "Turn".
The moral ambiguity in this season was great. Done really well.
In a lot of shows you don't even see it, or it seems forced or done badly, but here everybody had their reasons, and it suited the personalities.
Great season.
I don't think I was even worried that it was moving to Amazon. They do some quality stuff, and the cast are experienced enough with the show by now to make sure everything was done right anyway. Also, I couldn't see Amazon just slapping it together just for the sake of it. Especially after all the media coverage of them taking it on.
Which they wouldn't have even done if they weren't planning on doing a good job.
I love everything about the show, but the profanity from Avasarala is probably my favourite thing in the whole series..
What people who read the books told me this session is the slowest part in the series. But the next session is when shit goes down..
Haven't read the books but they're spot on. Season 4 feels much like a build-up to Season 5. Well I'm hoping it is as I really don't want another whole season being stuck on one planet.
Just finished book 5, part way into book 6, and shit be HEEEEAAAAVVVYYYY
*THIS* WAS THE SLOW PART???
God I need to read the books
@@agustinvenegas5238 yes, this book was like a pause. Fasten your seat belt, you've been warned
Season 5 is gonna be amazing!
I have only read Leviathan, but as far as I'm concerned, it was a matter of time to have a season like this one. I see it like an inherent trait of the genre and format and I don't think it detracts from the series as a whole. Personally, the only thing I "missed" in this season was some more space combat, but that's only because both the books and the series have made the whole concept very interesting. PS: RIP Ashford. The OPA has lost a loyal and sensible officer.
Apologies for the mysteriously appearing and disappearing video. TH-cam messed up the initial release so I had to reupload :)
Felt like half a season
4:50 A Frankie Adams action flick? Yes, yes, and more yes please!
I noticed the gravitational lensing (I don't remember noticing it in previous seasons) when the belters ship accelerated after they get out of the Ring. They also showed the fusion process inside the drive. Loved it!!!
Especially when the proto-molecule stopped fusion, that "ping" drop sound of the fuel pellet was so disheartening in the level of chaos that was only just starting...
Gravitational lensing?
@@themightyjagrafess8596 u know how a heavy mass object such as black hole bend the space time around itself thereby bending the path of light, causing the viewer to see what's behind the black hole out side of the event horizon. That thing.
@@themightyjagrafess8596 also I'm not technically accurate in tht statement
Great season, Season 3 still my fave though thanks to Amos and the "I am that guy" scene.
I love that phrase as much as "what was she wearing"
@Craig Taylor yes that and Amos “ I’m free right now”
Both my favorites. 😁
😂
"This is Amos, he is my best friend in the whole world" The best scene of the Expanse imho, and most other SF series.
The recasting of Arjun was quite distracting. In the books Arjun is a peaceful, kind, content and philosophical father figure. Michael Benyaer neither looks the part, nor does he act it. I understand that securing actors for bit roles in television series can be extremely difficult, but they could have at least found someone a bit older and someone who doesn't look like a poster child for a Private Military Firm.
Michael Benyaer by the way is a great actor, but he does not make a good Arjun. Bob from Reboot on the other hand...
Couldn't agree more. The casting of the new actor was glaringly bad...considering the exceptional casting decisions thus far. The chemistry between he and Chrisjen was awkward and severly lacked any sense of a lifetime of shared moments. My opinion anyway... =)
Roberto Moreno yeah the original actor who played Arjun was not only an amazing actor but he had great chemistry with Chrisjen. It felt like they were married for decades and had an understanding of one another even though they may not share the same views. It was amazing. The new actor (though not to criticize is acting voices, especially as a training actor myself knowing how personal a performance is to an actor but constructive criticism is needed in order for an actor to progress and excel) played the character very aggressively and rude. And when he was in a scene with Shohreh Aghdashloo (Chrisjen) she carried the scenes. I wonder why they recasted Arjun?
I disagree. Benyaer was great He portrayed the character as someone who could actually stand up to Christian as she was going off the rails.
plus Benyaer was 18 years younger than Shohreh!
When I saw him the first time, i thought he was like a personal aide to Chrisjen. When i realized what happened, I said to myself, "they recast Arjun with Judah from Bojack Horseman."
@@adamajobe1756 Brian George, the original actor, has been a 'that guy' actor in television for decades now. I wouldn't be surprised if he enjoys the vatied jobs and doesent like to be stapled to a particular set. It could have also as easily been what other jobs he had at the time.
I didn't like how ashford decided to storm a ship with two other people of questionable combat skill. He lost two immediately but decides to take the rest of the ship by himself instead of returning to his and blowing them away? I really don't feel like that fit with the intelligence of his character where he previously exercises caution and thought. It felt like they needed him to die and were too lazy to write a way that made sense. If he knew he was going to board a ship with an unknown number of people on it wouldn't he bring more than a couple people? It was a really bad decision.
Now if amos did that I would have no problem with it, that's exactly the type of thing I would expect from him.
Not only that but he had the opportunity to kill the guy. Someone pointing a gun at your body doesn't stop you from pulling a trigger. He knows he's going to be spaced. It makes no sense.
I was starting to think i was the only one troubled by this, no one else seems to talk about it. It felt really forced
@@Dadecorban Having just been captured, he wanted to send out a message and he did. If he shot Inaros regardless, he wouldn't have gotten that chance, neither would he have ensured the subversion of his plans. At least now someone might know in time.
Other than that, I agree that he should have never ended up in that situation. Ashford is a capable guy. Anyone can get outsmarted, I just wish it didn't feel like he played right into Marco's hands.
@@ranialian8537 I just went back and rewatched it. I never noticed he was recording the conversation and I've watched the whole season 3 times. Thanks man
odizzido i think that ashford could (and should) have killed marco right then and there. The reason why he didn’t (imho) is that filip was right there. It all tails back to what ashford said to his „colleagues“ when they wanted to kill that martian, that they should consider what that murder would cause, because violence begets more violence. and what ashford said to drummer, that people need to stop to hate in order to unite for a brighter future and that the old ways do not work anymore if the killing is to be stopped.
>ship gets blown up by terrorists
>kills said terrorists
>somehow the villian
I think there was a slight drop in quality and there were some things that dropped the ball on technical/science authenticity.
One example is when the OPA ship is following Marco’s ship that’s harbouring the asteroid he is intending on sending to earth. They say it is on a deceleration burn but as established in novels and previous seasons that ships turn around to slow down, pointing their main drive towards destination.
But I was always a bit concerned this season wouldn’t translate well from the novel it was based on and be a real snoozer, potentially kill the series. But damn it was good and mixed some of the following novel into the story to give some other characters something to do. Really enjoyed the season over all and seemed to get better as went on.
You can adjust delta-v on a spacecraft only using thrusters, instead of main drive. For example, that's how Apollo spacecraft separated from the third stage, moved out a bit, then flew back to dock with the LM nestled in it's "garage" mounting. Now that said, unless they propelled it somehow, the asteroid "flew" away at an oddly high rate of sep.
Yea that asteroid definitely had some unseen propulsion didn’t it lol.
I don’t believe thrusters could decelerate an Epstein drive adequately. In the books, often at midway point, the ships would need to turn their main drive to destination to slow down. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, yea? The fuel to weight ratio doesn’t apply to Epstein drives. They smash out as much acceleration as they can physically endure and then turn it around for a deceleration burn. And even then it takes months or years for some journeys.
The Belter daughter being the main connection on the BabaPiccola to get it out of the atmosphere instead of the Captain felt silly aswell.
JoeysSecretLover I was thinking that. Some random passenger and a child at that with no qualifications or known experience is calling the shots on an EVA that the crew lives and trillions of dollar payload depend on.
D Howison exactly. That is my biggest gripe along with no Havelock.
I am a big fan of this show but it felt to me like they stretched the story a little too much in season 4, it had little action, season 3 still remains the best season for me
Considering the book is pretty much wholely about the new planet I appreciated still enjoying the shows crafted plots to feature fan faves this season like Bobbie and Draper vs just stick them in a back burner for an entire season. The fact the authors help with the show means you barely noticed this was all "filler" to go along with the Roci crew. These characters are fantastic and it's been a master stroke adding them in much earlier in show vs books so we're fully behind them before they even fully get going.
I do appreciate the authors’ collaboration with the series, they sort of authorize little spin offs which were only referenced in the books. I really like the Inaros vein, another actor I don’t know who is probably going to be great in season 5...
I think the first couple of series are some of the only adaptations that are better than the books they're based on. Introducing Avasarala straight away improved things a lot.
what really amazes me with the expanse is the actors, did not know them before the expanse but they all seem like they are veteran actors.
For this means a lot especially when it startet as a syfy show.
The only thing I didn't like about season 4 was due to bits missing from the book - little stuff like Havelock (Miller's partner from season 1) was supposed to be the assistant security chief on board the Edward Israel - with a whole subplot to himself and the crew of the EI having its own developments. However, the book also doesn't have anything from back in the sol system so really glad we did get those developments with Mars especially. If season 5 catches on like season 2 did then we'll be in for a right treat (and far as I can tell, while we may not get the raid on Enceladus with Filip, we have confirmation Monica Stuart - the reporter from late season 3 - will be back, and this should be a damn good season with juicy bits for our Martians and Amos too) and I agree that the aspect ratios, while they did help make the scenes, changing back and fourth in an episode was a little emersion breaking.
If season 5 goes the way of the book, I think we'll have riots if we have to wait for season 6 too long (and if we do get to season 7, and I am reading Persopolis Rising right now, well we should know how it pans out by season 5, but 7 would be a right treat indeed... We're still waiting on the final book and the progression of characters and plot is just so great, if we get a full series out of this, I think this could set a standard that may never be beaten among all Sci fi in my opinion. An odyssey like no other before it or likely for a long time to come).
Widget I can’t remember, did Bazes daughter so everything that she did in the show, in the book? Because it felt silly in the show having her do all of those important things instead of senior members on the BabaPiccola
@@zaprese In the Book, Felcia does board the Barbapiccola and wind up in orbit during the fusion crisis, in the book its is Basia that opposes her getting a university education because he lost Katoa to protgen on Io during the Ganymede crisis, but without that context it would be hard to justify his love for his daughter coming from fears that she could end up like Doctor Strickland - (I felt wierd seeing her mother - a medtech - oppose her getting educated but in the book she uses her own education to encourage her daughter - also Basia is the one working with the OPA cell) but he says goodbye before the shuttle takes her up.
After the fusion crisis starts, Basia is the one who ends up on the Rocinante and there is also an EVA operation made by Naomi (Alex and Naomi stay on the ship in orbit in the book - though they do come down during runs, Naomi could "feel her knees starting to leak" in the constant high gravity - though they also state in the book that the trip to Ilus takes several months and in order to arrive in time to hopefully make a difference, Holden agrees with the crew to have high-G shifts to shorten the trip with low-G intervals for the Martian and Belter of his crew - anyway) Naomi attempts to disable the RCE's suicide shuttle days before things get urgently desperate and using a special EVA rig with a vacuum welding kit, she planned to put an angine disabling device on it and get out without being noticed - unfortunately, despite keeping the shuttle half a kilometer away, Havelock happens to be training his own little militia of earther and Martian engineers (on Murtry's orders) in EVA combat using paintball guns and gives them generally good advice like "stay away from the thruster ports unless you don't mind getting vaporised".
Havelock notices her and despite being equipped with paintball guns, Naomi notices them coming and attempts an escape - only to get tangled up in grapnel lines set out by the engineers (despite Havelock's plan only being to intimidate the saboteur away with no intention of physical confrontation - this sporadic escellation doesn't end here).
Naomi actually spends the next few weeks captured on the Edward Israel and despite being a prisoner under Havelock's guard, she earns his trust and he winds up getting along with her better than his own militia. Murty of course wants her kept there for trial in an Earth Court for it and Alex is left alone with Basia on the Roci until eventually there is a prison break of sorts. I forget the exact catalyst but Basia gets sent in with Roci Martian combat EVA gear and with that distraction, Havelock gets himself a shotgun with beanbag rounds so he can fight off any militia that don't buy that he's just "moving the prisoner to throw off the intruder" and eventually he finds Basia, having locked himself in a space toilet trying to avoid the gunfire from the militia - who Murty gave real guns to (had access to the weapons locker). The three of them go EVA and return to the Roci to help with rescuing the Barbapiccola from orbital decay.
Havelock makes constant efforts to minimise casualties by constantly warning his militia on an open frequency - but the chief engineer kind of goes rogue and takes just about everything personally and winds up pushing the militia into an attack on the Roci, including DIY handheld missiles made from fire extinguishers - and after Havelock finally winds up killing him, everyone else kind of announces that "Chief engineer Koenen took it too far. No hard feelings?"
With a nearly complete Roci crew, the tether is constructed and the rescue plan put into effect, including the use of the rail gun as propulsion (even gets referenced in a later book where a fellow pilot is chatting with Alex about some of their exploits from previous years - among other good bits still yet to come). Eventually though, the Barbapiccola is lost in the book, and with the worries that Felcia would struggle to get everyone off the ship in time, she proposes that they use emergency airlock in pairs to create air bubbles big enough for ten people at a time and use them to get all the crew off the ship and onto the Edward Israel - the captain not being under Murtry's command as its his ship and is also a decent bloke - is happy to accommodate the extra people.
In the Book the Barbapiccola is lost before fusion is restored and her plan winds up saving everyone's lives - though without the Lithium haul, options for the Belter on the ground where limited.
I forget how the rest of the details go, still rather similar - I think Fayez is on the ground with Elvi and the recovery from the flood is also faster - though the blindness sets in pretty fast - but with Elvi helping Miller-bot to end the proto molecule stuff, you get a much more tangible, though certainly no less strange description of what she saw when she passed through that "eye of an angry god".
Also Miller-bot is there slightly longer and Holden plays a match-three game on his hand terminal after a few days without sleep or amphetamines to keep him up. When Miller-bot is broken, he's apparently so heavy Elvi can't move him so he disbands himself and encourages she pick up the core to toss it in - and its described as weighing like 90 kilos on its own, so she really has to try - but Murty is getting 1% of all monetary value gained from this planet and that is why he's so keep to protect the technology - and studying the protomolrecule tech like the ring does eventually yield some cool advances in materials among other things.
Anyway, that's all I got off the top of my memory - because the next book was so much more eventful - if we're lucky we wo t have seen the last of Clarissa Mao and Bobbie still has a lot of stuff to do...
I was kinda disappointed by the underground part ( as a book reader).
Yep, I liked the way it worked in the books much better as well - but I understand the time constraints. In the end this show got cancelled & Bezos bought it back to life. Yeah, you can say the fans saved it, but in the end even with Bezos behind it, this is a costly experiment for Amazon; the numbers were not there for Season 3 so no way Amazon could pay for a long Season 4 which would allow all the other bits/Characters in the book to be included
Yeah much more action in the books, weird how most of the time the movies just make it more daramtic
Still crying for Ashford
Considering the Ashford we got in the TV-show vs the Ashford from the book...omg TV Ashford is hands down the absolute winner.
Let me break it down simply....sat down to watch the 1st 2 episodes.......10 hours later......
Where the hell has Jared Harris gone? Get that man back Amazon
I thought it was good, but felt the way they reshuffled things to spread out the protagonist role did reduce some of the tension. This book felt so overwhelming because there were so many pots in the fire and competing goals, but this version feels more one thing after another, like how Holden isn't blowing off Miller to try to keep everyone from killing each other but instead resolves the local issues and then Miller shows up. It is a really minor change but completely changes the tone and meaning of events, and this season was full of those changes. Still excellent, but a different story.
I got a 120" screen, and I can say it looked AWESOME!
There were great moments in Season 4 but I found the first three Seasons much more interesting. The hyper focus on a villainous bad guy felt a bit unlike all of the previous Seasons and it kinda made the story line boring - at least all the scenes on Illus. It feels like an inappropriate arc introduced by people who weren't a part of the original production. At least, that's what it seems like. I'd much rather the show be more sympathetic towards Murtry, or just tone it down and focus on the planet itself. There were definitely awesome moments but for me much of Illus dragged the story down a bit. The kind of thing studios like to do to add tension, when really the show didn't need it at all.
And I think Avasarala's new husband was a whiny, sour, unsupportive twat that clearly doesn't understand her or appreciate the situations and experience that got her to where she was. The worst casting I've seen in a quality show like The Expanse. The weird thing is that the writing for the character is also out of character of the relationship shown in the first three Seasons. Bizarre.
Everything else I loved.
I've just got two episodes to go of this season and I must say the space based scenes remind me of Interstellar, while the colony scenes had a western feel to them. One thing I love about The Expanse is that the characters have to apply science and engineering to solve problems rather than just press buttons and ask the computer.
I have to say, most shows struggle having multiple different storylines across different areas but this season was amazing. Usually when a show does this (Follows different characters story's in different locations) I get bored of one and can't wait to get back to another (game of thrones is a perfect example) but with the Expanse whether it was Earth, mars, the new world, the Belters etc I was hooked.
A big missing part of this season, based on the character being in the book, was not getting to see Demetri Havlock again 😥
I liked his part in the books, was disapointed it was cut.
They saved his life and then he disappeared. That' gratitude for ya.
What happened to the protomolecule that was inside the Rocci? That cumstain that was left behind when the mutant tried to bash its way to the reactor.
from a show viewers perspective, I had no problems with the story slowing down as at the end of season 3 was so world changing and opened up the world so much and felt like an end of a big ass arc, this season felt like an opening of a new arc/adventure and i was fine with it and i think its still incredible storywise. What i wasnt a fan of was the new characters(and an old one) being so unlikable to me when the show wanted me to empathize with them so bad, such as the belters in new terra the med tec lady and the scientist lady plus Naomi, the show wanted us to empathize with them so bad and tried to make the "bad" guys so generically "evil" that it felt forced when those characters themselves(scientist, belters med tec naomi) were just as unlikable if not more so. naomi is getting really annoying too and for the first time ever for this series i started skipping her scenes especially when she gets preachy/ holier than though or the "it will work itself out" attitude that you find in shounen anime ( and this masterpiece aint no shounen. sorry if you dont get the reference but anime watchers will get it ), which saddens me sooo much because this show is so great.... that being said though this shit is the best thing in english speaking television imo, I'm surprised that there arent more people watching/talking about this and that it was going to be cancelled after the 3rd season of which capped of such a great story arc, I cant fuckin wait for season 5.
Binge watched all seasons but season 4 this week. Will see season 4 again soon to keep up the flow. Amus character development is awesome. Him going blind and was breaking and having to rely completely on Holden did something to him. He is somehow regaining something that is lost, like a faint echo.
Also, after binge watching I noticed Bobbie is funny as hell everytime she tries new food, lol. Especially the cucumbers. She is in the back of the scene all the time while the others are talking munching to her heart's content.
Season 4 is tied with Season 2 for my favorite season of this series.
Season 3 is still my personal favourite :)
To me Season 2 and 3 feel like one long season, so they are both my favorite seasons
3 > 2 = 4 > 1. In my opinion.
But all of the seasons are incredible and season one is still way better than most things airing.
3, 2, 4, 1
3) 9.5
2) 9.3
4) 9
1) 8.5 I only say this because it took a little too get to know the characters... If it wasn't for the two previous season it would be a 9, but they raised the bar imho. Still that first season is excellent but 2 and 3 are so good..
Bah... I love this show.
Every season of this show is so completely different from the other. I'd have to go with Season 3 as my favorite though. Every episode just seemed to get better and better than the previous
In no way did it suck. In fact it was a lot better than I expected. That being said... (Didn't read the books) The fact is the dynamic of Earth, Mars and the Belt playing out the very realistic and relatable story of humans colonizing the Solar System was SO DAMN INTRIGUING that the introduction of the alien storyline was a distraction and a disappointment. That the alien storyline upended and made pointless everything that came before it (Belters helping Inners. Mars no longer being a military power) was just so much less interesting than the show was before. Again, still a great show, and easily the best sci-fi on TV today, but still... the show was so much more interesting to me when it was much more grounded and exploring the idea of humans colonizing the solar system.
The only real flaws I felt were with Avrasarala. First of all it was too obvious that they knew we liked it when she cursed (LOVE HER!) and they made her curse too much. It was obvious fan service and so it lost its specialness. Secondly, I thought political infighting was was she was best at I remember at the start of the season when her storyline of running against someone started my wife and I laughed at how she was going to destroy the upstart. That she lost wasn't the problem, it was how badly she did. It didn't make sense. She should have been far more adept a political operative, It was a betrayal of her character.
This is a good take.
I will say that Alex being confined to the ship is accurate to the books. In fact, in the books, Naomi never even sets foot on Ilus. It's just Holden and Amos the whole time.
Also, I can understand the feels about Klaus and Drummer not having a lot to do; Klaus was out of the fight by this point (in the books he's a much more cartoonish villain) and Drummer is a combination of several different characters.
Drummer has some big stuff coming up in the books. It will be interesting to see how the series handles her character.
@@elocbmc7462 I thought Drummer was a composite of Bull and a couple of Tycho personnel.
Ashford--- I couldn't stand that guy at first. His belter creole sucked, his character sucked etc etc. But then something happened, he started growing on me. And when he got spaced, I was like NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! F**k...
I would have liked to have gotten more backstory on him. Wasn't he sort of like Anderson Dawes' street muscle? And when/where did all the scars happen. What was with the baby scene? Dammit!!
This 4th season helps setup the problems that the three groups will face going forward. The Earth's policing of the new worlds, the belters and their plight are magnified by their conflict with Mars. The new season calls back to this conflict perfectly
Absolutely - I enjoyed the heck out of this season!
The Belter Creole has embedded itself into my psyche, which is indicative of how brilliantly they created this language.
In case you wanted to understand it more or write your own check out LingoJam Belter Translator [lingojam(dot)com(slash)BelterTranslator]
My parents made the mistake of watching saeson 4 first. Dad seems to enjoy it but both he and mom have an issue with hearing the Earth President swearing as much as she does.
I really likes this season, not as much as the previous ones, this list season makes a fertile soil for the next one. Also the amount of "fuks" Avasarala thrown this season was too high
They upped the "fuks" to match her book version. She swears like a trooper.
@@Deltasloth240 didnt know that, thnks.
@@ramiro4710 Actually, this is still waaay down on how many ways she manages to be rude in the books. But in the Books early on she explains why she does it . no spoilers, but like most things with her, it is thought out 😊
The transition from Season 3 to 4 was seamless (other than some minor actor switches). Everything seemed in it's appropriate place.
I think the only thing I really didn't like about Season 4 was how they made choices to cut things from the book to push the belter narrative. The whole point of Cibola Burn was that both RCE and the belters have valid points, and it's a matter of perspective. The show made it more black and white and made Murtry seem more evil for the sake of having a clear antagonist and that defeats the whole point. No one is right, and no one is wrong in this scenario. They should have pushed that grey morality harder to make that more clear.
Anyone know when S5 would be out? Is it even on the cards? I tried not to binge S4 but couldnt help it, just left me wanting more.
This was the best take on this season that I've heard so far. Others seem (to me) to be reaching so far just to find something to criticize about this season, I guess because the book that this season is based in (Cibola Burn) is widely considered to be the least compelling in the series. That being the case, I'm awestruck that this season manged to be (arguably) the best so far. I like how willing you are in giving praise to good work without having to create vapid criticisms just to add nuance to your comments about the show. Love your videos!
Glad you enjoyed my video :) I personally hold Season 3 as my favourite thus far. And while there are always things to nitpick, this show is as strong as its ever been.
@@RowanJColeman s3 is also one of my favorites. but I really wish they did the recap with cats with all seasons. what is your take on Netflix's The Witcher?
I've read the books up to the 8th(the final 9th book being released this year), book 4 of the series is the slowest book. But book 5 is by far my favorite and the most explosive book. I cannot wait for season 5 of the show.
"The Final 9th book" - my understanding is that they are on par to make it out towards +12 books???
Book 9 is the final book or so Amazon says.
@@SoccerBoyAP I heard that authors will writte new scifi trilogy after they finish 9th book(so 9 the expanse books + 3 non expanse book in future)
for me, season 4 is the calm before the storm that season 5 will be!, it set the ground for a full load of action on s5-6!
Exactly, it's like the series hasn't even built up it's speed until book 5 then it's just go go go go go go
Season 4 was good enough for me to watch it all straight through entire night and taking day off at work next day :P
If I was forced to complain I would say that not all actors play was convincing.
I love Marco, absolutely perfect play. His preaching and winning people with words. Everything matches in that guy.
Ashford fantastic! As Rowan said, instinctively not trustworthy, but eventually turns fair and just.
The problems starts with, interestingly, main character of James Holden. Acting IMO is not most convincing. Too much clenching teeth and anger that is somehow felt like pretended. Not adequate to situation. Well, actually problem also ends here :P
Also I got the feeling that James Holden(not actor, but actual character) is constantly totally clueless, doing things he doesn't understand, for the reasons he doesn't understand, but goes and does it anyway. Then shit hits the fan and everyone correct his mistakes, but he still is clueless and somehow accidentally is "special". Doesn't fit the role of ship commander and key plot character in my book ;) Now that Miller is gone I think it is going to be hard to find interesting place for Holden in upcoming events. He will play a role in Nyomi Nagata story, but as a support rather than center of action.
Mars citizens morale going down after realizing there is no more need to suffer for greater good on hostile planet, I felt it, really well shown. Fall of Draper as well.
What I am disgusted with is the fact that when Holden was kicking out temporary hatch on their hideout in alien structure metal line was still attached to it but we can clearly see that it is not moving along kicking on camera takes showing Holden trying :P(joke, but is it ? Considering realistic and very detail-oriented series history ;))
Season 4 did a good job at giving us both Cibola Burn + Gods of Risk (slightly altered) while cutting out some of the lighter-weight content (Elvi and Holden, the back and forth fighting between the settlers and RCE security both in space and on the ground) but including the developments that have very much (for the better) changed the characters Drummer and Ashford. Also, letting Avasarala off the leash with her true verbal self (as she is in the books) has really brought her character around to it's perfection. I was, having read the books, unsure about "The Investigator" chapters from the book but they did a fantastic job of visualizing those and letting Miller be Miller both there and then when working with Holden and Elvi.
Space physics, requiring engineering skills for survival... check!
The books are structured in trilogies, so this season was basically the beginning of Act 2 and setting up the events for S5 and 6. It's a lot like S1 in that regard.
I still think Avasarala was being completely sincere in the memorial scene. Politically manipulative too, but those aren't mutually exclusive. Her super-power is being manipulative with brutal (if selective) honesty. I think the politics arc was her wavering from that and the memorial was her returning to form. The tragedy is her husband losing faith/trust in her and viewing what she said as just manipulation.
The proto molecule planet......what happened there?
I liked the villain and his collision with Amos at all times. This show has become one of my all time favorite shows, just great characters in an expansive story.
It was a faithful representation of the book. If you guys want action and space combat, wait 4 next season, thats when sh!t hits the fan.
The season seemed to end way too fast, not much happened and some characters were underused. Still better than most of the sci-fi shows out there except for Dark (maybe) and i'm grateful it is still being produced.
I had a hard time with Bobbi Draper turning to a life of crime, given that she wasn’t starving, homeless, or broken. Her journey to the dark side was much too casual.
I did like that the story was more focused on smaller events. I don’t think the stakes could be believably raised, after last season, and still be enjoyable. It would pack as much punch as JJ Abrams’ Death Star Destroyers. At a certain point, it stops being fun, and starts being funny.
RIP Ashford! 😢
I think even worse is her total lack of common sense in dealing with the criminals. She thinks she can drag away her nephew from an organized crime syndicate, letting him go his own merry way with no protection afterwards? It's not just a lack of street smarts, it's total stupidity.
I don't mind the smaller scale/scope of things since the whole point of the protomolecule is that you're never quite certain of its scope, but what ultimately killed me this season was how pointless and inflated 90% of it felt. Every single time they cut to Avasarala I cringed: she was either in the cockpit of some plane or in her office, commenting about the election or Holden not keeping her in the loop, and it ALWAYS ended with her walking away somewhere like a "badass" after saying some "badass" one-liner with damn or fuck in it (it felt equally as bad as listening to all the cock jokes in GoT season 8). Like, what was the point? Cut out all of Avasarala's scenes and you don't lose a single important thing.
I had grown to like Bobbie as a character thanks to her development, but I definitely didn't find her interesting enough to warrant a side-story all on her own...and, as expected, it was a snooze-fest the whole way through. I didn't care for any of those characters the show suddenly wanted us to care for. The guy (brother?) who got kidnapped? The criminal drug lord who did it, but was secretly a squeaky clean police officer? The belter drug cartel thing? Felt like her story belonged in an episode of Breaking Bad.
Drummer was Drummer so that was just more of the same (excluding the highlight of this season: Ashford) so I was "meh" towards her. Outside of that, I'm really starting to hate Naomi. She was not only the stupidest character this season, but one of the hardest to tolerate, a complete and utter hypocrite with a one-sided sense of "justice" that only ironically benefits belters, despite how she lashes out at everyone else for thinking only of their own people exactly like she does. Belters kill 25 innocent people and she doesn't twitch a finger. A guy kills ONE belter (who had it coming btw) and she blows a casket so hard she almost has a heart attack.
I feel bad for all the Martian military vet characters. Basically brainwashed into killing machines for 'the good of Mars and her people' and than tossed aside by their government when they aren't needed anymore.
I don't think it sucked, but it just wasn't as memorable as season 3, which I think has been the apex so far. It felt more like season 1 than seasons 2 or 3 in that it was more of a slow burn than a crazy roller coaster, with it sharing many similarities such as a criminal drama and a focus on character and world development.
I agree. The fact that it was a slow burn, per say, I don't think was the issue. It was that what we got, especially in the new alien planet, wasn't that good. I was expecting dealing with new interesting science fiction ideas. What we got was a tsunami, micro-organisms that make you blind, and slugs that kill on contact. Really, slugs that kill on contact!! I was so disappointed with this season. But it does look great and the characters are fun to watch.
I loved season four, by far the best season so far. I was devastated when Ashford died though, he was by far one of my favorite characters.
Season 4 apparently fit the books very well, shadowing Cibola Burn. I'm not up to that book yet, but those who have read it say that the show is very loyal to the book, adding in drama and stream lining the story here and there.
I think this is my new all time favorite scifi show. Before the expanse, Stargate Sg1 was my all time favorite scifi show.
But The Expanse does a great job with blending real science with science fiction. A lot of the tech in the expanse is actually based on real technology, some is based on theoretical tech, others are based on technology that is being researched and developed right now. The way Space travel works on the show is actually very realistic for the most part.
Traveling at an extreme velocity and stopping too fast, or decelerating too fast, can kill you. On the show they actually accelerate halfway to thier destination, then flip the ship to decelerate for the other half of the trip. That's pretty cool.
Like I said, they do a great job with blending theoretical tech with real technology.
Reading so many comments here mentioning Jared Harris... googled him to see which character he played and quickly realized the reason he always reminds of Richard Harris every time I see him in something. I loooove RH from watching "camelot" countless times as a kid. Can't believe it took this long to connect the dots!
Adolphus Murtry was actually the good guy who was hunting down terrorist and the people who were helping the terrorists while being extremely easygoing about people committing serious crimes, some that could have gotten him or others killed.
I was very impressed. I thought the new world was going to be derpy and cheaply done, but it was interesting and believable.
TBH I sympathized with Murtry. He didn't do anything Rocinate's crew wouldn't do. Heck, Holden made threats towards him for mere putting their precious Nagata (she was complaining really hard this season btw) in harm's way, meanwhile he lost dozens of people in that landing pad attack and it is somehow supposed to be a shocker that he was hostile or not forthcoming with his supplies. And they let that terrorist stay behind, meanwhile Murtry is to be charged for killing people who were 100% guilty and willing to do more. It bugged me till the end.
Btw. Murtry kind of breaks the 4th wall acknowledging that he always plays the bad guy: "I must have that kind of face" :)
Shame Ashford got killed. Strathairn is one heck of an actor. I loved watching him and Gee working together. I also really enjoyed closer look at Martian society and situation back on Earth. Alien machinery left me cold, I suppose we will have to wait longer to get SOME answers. I can't wait for the next season though, it is gonna start with a bang and a lot of people dead.
There is still a difference between simply threat, and following up on it. But that's what makes him such a good antagonist, they are a lot more compelling if you understand why they are reacting in such a way.
I probably have to rewatch the lat episode again, but I was under the assumption that they still get prosecuted
I know, this is stupid, but my only problem with the season was, that it reminded me too much of "Mass Effect: Andromeda" ... and not in a good way. Not that the plot-points on their own were bad, but the memories associated to them, simply lessened my enjoyment.
@Know One I am a sociopath because I sympathize with someone? I wonder what you would do in Murtry's shoes. Almost killed in terrorist attack with a lot of his colleagues from work actually being dead (the heck "that isn't even 2 dozen" means? what if it were two dozen?), himself injured and aware of further attempts of terrorist activity and so on.
@@Deckaio Yup, Nagata shared sob story about how she used to be a terrorist and managed to get away with it and Holy Holden offered to put in his report that terrorist girl was sucked into the void of space with no hope of recovering her. Why bother court with judging whether and how much someone is guilty.
And the difference between threats and actions exists because the trigger for the action did not happen. After all Nagata or Amos weren't hurt (unlike Murtry's people) by Murtry so there was no need for revenge. Meanwhile when Murtry was after Holden Amos did not have a single problem with whacking Wei and would have killed Murtry himself if Holden did not had a sudden need to bring people to justice. That said I do not have the problem Rocinate sided with belters, only that whole holier-than-thou feel is annoying without anyone in the show acknowledging it happens.
Fortunately, I did not play Andromeda :)
@Know One Oh, it's just 23 people that got killed... if you put it that way. And you call others sociopaths. WTF
@Know One So being one off exactly two dozen makes it ok that 23 people (not two dozen!) got killed? Who's the sociopath again?
Enjoyed the way the characters were written this season, the twists and turns, how fortunes changed for some of the main characters. Story feels more like Babylon 5 now than other space operas, and that is a good thing!
"burn Gorman has been one of my favorite that guy actors for awhile now."
amos "i am that guy"
No, I loved it! It goes 3,2,4,1 for me. But they all are at least an 8.5/10 for me.
My exact rankings as well! All seasons were wonderful. Seasons 2 & 3 were absolute PERFECTION...with Season 4 just a smidgen behind them.
Not quite as exceptional as Season 3 in my opinion, but still a wonderful 10 episodes of television.
i wish some body bring back dark matter.i loved that show.
Suck? It mirrored the book! It is not the most flashy book of the series, but it is what you might expect, and it was not bad.
I like the way it was. However my thoughts were that the protomolecule had been contaminated with the green stuff and Rossi crew would use the sample of not contaminated protomolecule hidden onboard their ship to restore the facilities on Elos.
Along with the writing, I really like how Gunny looks like a female marine. They chose an actor that looks like she could be a soldier rather than a 4'6" size 6 waif.
An enjoyable season that got better as it went on.
I only discovered The Expanse in 2019 and it really was the best entertainment vehicle (including films) that I saw last year.
The writing, the world building, the attention to detail, the fabulous music and the characters have combined to make this a truly wonderful franchise.
I pray it continues this streak of excellence and doesn't do a GoT on us.
ps Totally agree with you on the MCU. It ended with Infinity War for me as I was hugely disappointed with Endgame.
I mean, the actress *is* 5'11" and a former boxer, she's not exactly missable on a line-up
@@agustinvenegas5238 Yeah, that was my point. She looks the part.
Murtry did nothing wrong!
... well he started a fight with Amos. That can't be considered a good/right decision under any circumstances really since it will never end well for whoever decides to do so... so Murphy was wrong there.
But I still think that while Morty is an asshole, he wasn't necessarily wrong most of the time. Everything Marty did for most of the season at least was fully justified.
With everything going on in the world today, I don't know a tv series more appropriately needed than this show. I'm so grateful that Amazon kept it going!! I'm beyond excited for S5 and have told everyone I know they need to see it! It's hard to get me hooked on any series so I know they believe me that it's THAT good. I grew up Mormon so a lot of my family probably won't because of the rating (16+) but my brother (a bishop) is totally "on board".☝️😂
Ashford and Drummer are much better in the show than the book.
Mike Dignum Up to book 6 Drummer is in a few Chapters from Book 5 but she’s not really important. She has Bulls role in Season 3 and takes U.K. the chief engineers role in S2. Ashford does in boom 3. Drummer will probably take Michio Pa’s role in S5&6 as she took Bulls and Pa’s in S3.
@@zaprese Yea we still need Cara Gee being the Camina Drummer we love through Book 7. I do appreciate how they handled the transition of characters and roles in the book vs show change-ups.
I wouldn't say it sucked, but it was certainly weaker than the previous seasons. However, its source material was also one of the weaker books in the series (not as weak as the previous book which was relegated to the last half of season 3). Plus, considering it followed a major war and knowing what's coming up it ends up feeling less exciting. The other major issue is that a whole lot of this book involved internal struggles, which are hard to depict on screen, and scientific investigation, which is boring to depict on screen. I know they TRIED to depict the feeling of awe the Rocinante crew and Earther scientists felt on coming to the new planet by switching to anamorphic lenses and aspect ratio, but I don't think it actually worked very well.
I always picture Marco Inaros as a kind of Drake from Aliens. Don't know why, but the audio books always made me picture him that way.