Great video! Thank you. Internaly routed cables look so cool, that I was a little bit sorry at first, that I haven't got them on my new bike, but now I'm totally happy with my external ones.
worked in the trade for 15yrs; to check, lube and refit external routed cables, 5-10mins. to do the same on internally routed has taken over a hour! better to charge £10 than £60??? not that we do. :-( YET. It`s ok if your name sir name is Wiggins or Cavendish, but if you live in the real world then keep it simple so you can do it at home. 8-)
Good video! Worth to mention, that water pouring through internal routed cables is accumulated in the BB which also has na impact of a lifetime of bottom bracker bearing, who's are usually press fit these days.
Agrees to certain extent. For some bike that manages the cable entry neatly, internal cabling is just awesome. And for semi internal routing, i want these 2 parts that is externally routed: Rear brake and the chain stay ! These 2 parts is very important to be routed externally, in order to ease up the work!
I have a road bike with internal gear cables and running really light disc brakes externally, it works for me. My mountain bike is all external, but I keep the whole length of the gear cable covered and use velcro ties to hold them all to the frame as it was created for exposed wire gears and brakes, but has fluid disc brakes, much easier and simple to maintain. I would love a simple frame without the brackets I don't need for external routing.
I totally agree with you. I just bought a Cannondale synapse 105 and it has internal cables. I love the bike but I've already had cable issues only after two weeks of riding in the rain. The shift cable housings that came with the bike were of poor quality and started to rust. The brakes seem to be working fine. I pulled back the front derailier hood and tried to pull on the cable but it was stuck. I then took off the bottom plastic cover to look at the cables and noticed that the guide that goes under the bottom bracket to the front derailier broke in half which rendered the bike shiftless. ( I might have broken this when pulling on the cable with pliers to free it up) Your definitely right about rain and dirt getting into the frame. Where the cable come out of the frame above the bottom bracket to the front derailier there's a small hole but no rubber bushing. It's just waiting for water and dirt to pour into. So I did a little DYI and took a piece of shifter cable housing and installed it where the cable usually sits. I did some modification and it now goes up to the derailier, under the bottom bracket and up the down tube about 10 cm. I then calked the hole with silicone. It's shifting great now. Just make sure to get at least the Ultegra shift cable set, they are coated with a polymer coating and shift way way better then the standard set and seem way more rust proof. I am now working on sealing up all the other holes going into the frame. One benefit I do see with internal cable housing would be when mounting frame packs for endurance riding, the Velcro won't interfere with the external cables.
I always use the thin plastic liner to prevent any cables being exposed to the elements and it comes up to the front and rear derailleur so only the tip can potentially corrode
internal cabling comprises shifting, 11 speed has smaller increments so it gets amplified, now we have electric shifting to fix poor internal shifting. external shifting has a lot less friction for the derailleur spring to release the indexing, notice most top end italian bikes still use semi or full external shifting.
Great video, good points. Internal cabling is sometimes just marketing, unless you are racing there is no significant benefit, only downside. On my internally cabled TT bikes, the extra maintenance is a real pain, so I would rather not bother. I have had to modify these internally cabled bikes to avoid dirt and poor shifting, a pain, and mine do not provide proper blanking grommets - it is poor design. Whereas it is easy to do on the external ones, even on CX bikes that have to deal with extreme mud and water. My vote goes to the Jagwire MTB cable set with the extended end caps with male female ends to eliminate any exposed shift / brake wire.
Are u sure that the holes are drilled? I believe they are molded and therefor the fibers go around the hole which does not brake the stress path that much.
companies care about sales if there are people like you who is willing to pay more for inferior product they'll make it. he does not say anything about engineering. he's talking about a very simple thing; is it weaker than a frame without holes? yes. no matter how perfect you engineer it, YES. it WILL be weaker and thats the point.
marble89 You are correct. You also fail to realize that although a frame that has holes is weaker, no one ever puts their frame in enough stress for it to matter either. I do not know why you are saying people like me willing to buy.......I have a 2011 Fuji reveal 1.0. It has only what needed to be changed on it.
Indulonman Correct. I just purchased a 2017 Cannondale Quick4 with internal cables and it's near perfect.. They added some gaskets at the holes keeping the cables snug. Had a little rattle with the rear brake cable. The rear cable (along the top tube) is the only cable without these gaskets so it can move freely when turning the handlebars and sqweezing the brake lever. But a quick fix was me simply spinning or twisting i should say the cable housing with my fingers and it was gone. Or just shorten the rear brake cable housing about a half inch would also fix it. The bike mech when building your bike gives extra cable length on that particular cable probably for security reasons and or Cannondale spec code. My bike is rock solid..love it 👍Acid green color she's a beaut! lol
Poor internal cable routing design doesnt make internal cable routing bad, there are plenty of internally routed frames that are well designed and make setup a breeze. There are terrible externally routed frames too, routing on the top tube drives me nuts, always getting snagged on stuff and feels so awkward when you pick up the bike.
Couldn't agree more that internal cabling is a bad idea both in terms of reducing frame strength, providing entry point access for moisture, and increasing the complexity of replacing cables. The trick about joining the new internal cable to the old one so that as the old one is withdrawn the new one is installed is a good one. I haven't actually tried this but it occurs to me that one way of securely joining the two cables together might be to take a common cable end cap, cut off the closed end, insert the old cable into one and and crimp, insert the new cable into the other end and crimp, and then pull the old cable out and the new cable in.
No. I'm smart enough to not to ride bike without brakes outside track. Going downhill 50-70kph without brakes in crowded city sounds like a lot of fun.
My mountain bike came with internal routing. It rattles around in there and is definitely the noisiest part of my bike. When I'm due for a cable replacement, I'll probably just rip it out and run the cables externally for the sake of not rattling.
My last bike had all internal routing, I loved it until it came time to change the cables or housing. Needless to say my current bike has external routing, apart from the dropper post.
I deadly hate internal cable. My areo RB carbon frame is full internal cable, so I know how painful it is. I bought it just because the frame only sells 105 dollars. (Yet the cheapest one I could find in the market) External cable routing provides better shifting feeling, and it is much more easily to maintain and replace. I can just spend few minutes to replace brake cable and shift cable. But on internals, nah... I still remember that day I spent 2 hours to change my shift cable for my rear derailleur.
I think some manufacturers build internal channels for the cables to both hold them in place, and make it easier to replace them (as easy as just pushing them thru). Also, I think it'd be exceptionally rare that anyone would ever apply the amount of torsional pressure it would require to exploit the holes in the frame. If this were an issue, the practice would be discontinued immediately. How long would consumers continue to pay for $2000+ frames that cracked because of internal cable routing? That's not to say I think less of external routing, I just think it all boils down to good design and personal preference. So many great bikes to choose from!
Many internally-routed cables run the full length of the frame, increasing friction. So an internally-routed cable comes with worse shifting and braking.
My budget MTB came with a half internal, half external setup (Sunpeed Stella). Two holes on the right, one hole on the left; I'd say tho that the stock setup was terrible given that. I had to go motorcycle style on my brake setup in order to make it go right-left and left-right. The rest of the cables run externally on the chainstay and bottom bracket part.
Got to also add, I dislike lifting and handling my bike with piano strings scratching the paint, and to get tangle-up in, snagged (and the kids love to play and pull on them) its quite a bit easier to clean an internal routed cable bike. You can also see most of the cable outlets have been specially molded beyond the regular shape and dimensions of the carbon tube, there by giving abnormal strength to the areas. Some might be concerned with frame stiffness, but I myself, i'd rather have a flexible carbon frame for road vibration reduction. And yes, never drill carbon "fiber" as you will likely wont like the outcome. Now, leave me alone... I need to go fix my rattling internal cable issues ;-)
When I was racing off road, we would pump light grease into the cable housings to prevent water getting into them. Some people removed the plastic sleeves from the SIS housings and installed a continuous sleeve that ran from one end to the other so the cable was completely protected in the areas where it exited the SIS housing (and they would also fill the entire thing with grease). Why did we go to such lengths? We had races where we would start with brand new cables and housings and by the end, they would all need replacement. Fortunately that didn’t happen too often. Gnarly, muddy conditions in Alaska racing. Internal cable routing is a bitch for practical mechanical needs when you’re having to constantly replace them. And trying to fish a cable through is a pain if you don’t take steps like attaching a string first so you can pull a new cable through the frame. I’m all in for external routing.
*Carbon structure I don't know whether you have faced forces affecting your bike but: 1. carbon fiber matrix - if processed well - is able to resist way more forces, than almost 99,99% of all riders can produce. 2. At the Head tube - where internal cables enter the frame - the forces are even smaller than at the bottom bracket. It makes NO difference whether the riders produced force encumbers 60% or 70% of the frame resistance capacity. 3.Some of the best and stiffest bikes use internal cable routing without any stiffness issues/problems. So why getting even more stiff frames (with external routing), if it makes NO difference at all? Saving another 17,46757g? Flawless in my opinion. *Installation Well, if there are no liners (anymore) in the frame its a slight pain. But with some experience, a vacuum cleaner and/or a magnet, its done in 5-10min. *look I think it is an objective argument, if I claim: internal routing is WAY more beautiful and clean. Resume: I see NO REASON AT ALL to external route ... *fork internal routing: well, that indeed looks stupid
Your absolutely right! Internal routing looks really sexy, but the replacement sucks! Had to change my cables few weeks ago and it took more than a hour! Much easier you put a liner over the old cable and use it as guide for the new. But an external routing i would prefer. Sorry my english is not so good;)
i build up my new cube stereo 120 frame and after routing the cables internally there are already so messed up and stratched...especially the routing for the dropper post was a mess...because of the steep angles the cable has to go...and i had to rebleed the brake for the rear wheel because of the internal routing....also the rubber cable stops for the holes where not included when i bought the frame and the local cube store only had ones for only one cable in the hole...and i have 2 holes where i fitted 2 cables...so i bought rubber stops for automotive use on amazon and cut them....so stressfull :D
Internal cable routing is good when you want to strap some extra frame bags on it. But contrary to expectation, it seems that on those cheapest commuting bikes, where you might want to have some extra bags most. There isn't internal cable routing.
The front derailleur on my Izalco was acting up so I tried to replace the (internal) cable; I couldn't pull it. It probably was what the guy said about dirt and water getting in the housing. I had to take the bike to the shop where, after i paid some money, I got it back with a new cable. I don't know exactly what they did but I got charged 2 hours labor.
Some bike companies do drill the cable entrances on their frames, but some of them are also pre-molded. Also, I've been riding internal cable bikes since they became common years ago and I have never had a bike fail on me or I have never had a cable maintenance nightmare.
Totally agree with you! I think fashion and appearance are now in danger of superseding the mechanical functioning on bikes today! Not everything new is necessarily better !
i just bought a giant fhatom 29 internal cable routing and i really disliked the look but when i test the bikei just love the shifting quality the shift of an internal cable is al lot better than external and the cables didn´t get dirt with first ride
I think engineers would make sure that the frame is strong enough even with holes in the frame. Any bike manufacturer will make sure that the bike has some kind of a safety factor ... basically the bike is overbuilt to sustain years of punishment.
I've got an excellent Simplon Pavo frame, really high-end, and guess what? Everything is external; I am writing this because many people assume that the more is internal, the better and more valuable the bike is, which is misleading. I think a sophisticated frame is well made and has most of its cables and housings external, so the maintenance is hassle-free or at least without many problems.
No. most of the holes are drilled and cut in in after the frame is built. The areas where it will be drilled are reinforced with extra material during the molding process.
There's one disadvantage for internal routing cables. Over some time when the oil in the internal routing cables runs out, the braking and gear shifting wont be as smooth, as there is only one route do the cable to move, most cable will rub against the housing causing the braking and shifting to be less smooth. So non-internal routing is good if you are lazy for maintenance as cables can freely move, housing too. So the cables wont rub against the inside of the housing that much meaning shifting and braking experience is better. However, internal cable routing is also great, if internal cable routing is properly made by manufacturer with water caps, its much sleek and nice. Just saying. So overall non-internal cable is good
depends what quality cables you use- better to pay more and service them less frequently- if you use high-quality coated cables I think it's better as you have everything inside, almost sealed compared to outside with dirt & water access
external all day long.. I say this after having to swap brakes over between my mountain bikes one inside and one outside...total nightmare made worse due to XT connections at the hose ends .
stubbk3 next time try it from the lever end and use a hose connector that comes with RS Reverb seat post - 3€ separately - you'll be done in 3 minutes.
i am also not a big fan of Internalcable, Hollowtech, PressfitBB and co. But to be fair, at the BB there is no big hole, just a small one for screw or so to hold the plastic cable guide in place.
Totally agree. Who was the fella who created it? I just had a sucking moment trying to route a new cable into a new grommet. Trying to pop the grommet out is very difficult because it is tight. And one of it went inside the down tube. $#@&! After fitting the cable inside the grommet, another challenge to put the grommet back inside the hole. Damn wasting time.
If you routed the brake hose externally, you'd have to bond metal pieces to the fork, which would be no better for strength and could lead to delamination.
Daniel Mora right? His video whining about 1x systems and yet every bike he had in the video had a 1x system. This dude just loves to complain and tell every one how much he loves his Cannondale lmao
I need some advice. When i downshift the cable guard (this black hose around the real cable, i don't know the english word) comes loose and moves, so there isn't enough tension for the gears to change ( its the Shimano SLX shift lever (3x10) on the right side (model year:2014))
I have a Jamis carbon bike and just had problems with the front derailleur not downshifting to the smallest chainring. I removed the cover underneath the bottom bracket and found the problem. Dirt had filled the plastic guide and was preventing the cable from moving freely. I now have an additional service step for this bicycle. I can see no way of preventing dirt and water flowing down the vertical section of cable going from my front derailleur into the frame and settling in the bottom bracket without adding stiction. Something that will keep this bicycle from being one that is a practical, dependable bicycle. A shame because it is my lightest, fastest bicycle. An issue that would not exist if it had external routing.
Does this apply to Mountain bikes also? I have Scott scale 760 (xc bike) with external cable routing and I was not happy with it because cable ties everywhere. (just the looks, not in terms of performance)
It's 2021, and internal cable routing is ubiquitous. This may come down to people that rely on their LBS for all their maintenance needs vs people that maintain and/or build up the bikes themselves. Being in the latter group it's easy for me to observe the design concessions and nuisance of internal cable routing. Even with the magnetic based tools now available to assist internal cable routing is a time waster. The best development I've seen on this is true wireless drivetrains a la Etap. I prefer Ergo controls and am hoping Campagnolo releases a true wireless version, which I'll transition to en masse.
It may not fracture, but you won't get as stiff or as efficient a frame as you could have had.. Nobody wants to ride an inefficient noodle for the sake of some basic aesthetics.... it's like people who drive convertible sports cars - with a chassis that is often massively compromised with poor performance, where a sports car should normally shine.
Um... It's called an analogy.... For both bikes and cars the goal is stiffness of frame or chassis for mechanical efficiency and direct power transfer. It's one of the key goals of effective mechanical engineering...
axiomic Do you feel the difference in frame/fork/chainstay stiffness between internal and external cable routing bikes? Peter Sagan doesn't seem to have a problem with it...
As with cars, it depends how well it's done and compensated elsewhere in the construction. I'm sure it's mostly not too much of a drama. Interestingly, the Specialized road bike frames are some of the heaviest on the market... even their new line of xc mtb hardtail frames are lighter. So I doubt Sagan has anything to worry about.
axiomic It's more in theory than in practice. I'm yet to hear about cracked frames or complains about performance due to internal cable routing. Aero road frames are heavier but I don't think the cable routing has too much to do with it and they can still be under the UCI limit.
Im not actually comfortable having holes in my frame, but then that’s where the fashion trend went. I actually prefer external cable as I can see whether the cable is already corroded.
I like your cable routing trick but I'm skeptical that electrical tape will hold it. I've got one internal routing bike. It was a complete hassle to change the housing. Any tips for converting to external?
Co w przypadku ram aluminiowych? Wiercenie otworów w ramie aluminiowej osłabia ją tak samo bardzo jak w przypadku karbonu? Czy takie otwory są może w jakiś sposób wzmacniane? Pozdrawiam.
Internal cable is required absolutely cause it is clean outside of frame, so safe to the riders in any situations. And it is easy to water clean of the frame. And it is more aerodynamic. Problems are that the frame producers and maintenance mechanics don't care much about it now. They can make all maintenance procedures are easy for us to follow if they care, design the frame more than now. Of course its frame production cost could be increased, but also this matters could be overcomed if they are smart enough.
Some people are saying "ah, but the holes are moulded, so they are very strong", but the fact remains that a frame with a hole in it is weaker than a frame that doesn't. And sure, you're not likely to break the frame from sheer force of pedaling, but it only takes one shock impact to begin a crack.
i don't agree with the statement that "the frame is weaker", using simulation softwares manufactures are able to detect the unecessary material that can be removed without affecting the rigidity and the "strength" of the frame other than that, i do agree is a nightmare for bike mechanics and i'm willing to embrace the risk since it looks so damn neat and tidy
Simply design the frames with grooves or channels so all cables are external and design detachable covering panels for maintenance, how hard can it be.
Great video! Thank you. Internaly routed cables look so cool, that I was a little bit sorry at first, that I haven't got them on my new bike, but now I'm totally happy with my external ones.
Great objective assessment. I have a 1980's vintage, steel, road bike. I did a total rebuild on it last year. External cables, job done. Thanks.
worked in the trade for 15yrs; to check, lube and refit external routed cables, 5-10mins. to do the same on internally routed has taken over a hour! better to charge £10 than £60??? not that we do. :-( YET. It`s ok if your name sir name is Wiggins or Cavendish, but if you live in the real world then keep it simple so you can do it at home. 8-)
Good video! Worth to mention, that water pouring through internal routed cables is accumulated in the BB which also has na impact of a lifetime of bottom bracker bearing, who's are usually press fit these days.
Thank you for “confirming” my concerns about internally routed cables. Now, I see “a better picture” of their problems.
Agrees to certain extent. For some bike that manages the cable entry neatly, internal cabling is just awesome.
And for semi internal routing, i want these 2 parts that is externally routed: Rear brake and the chain stay ! These 2 parts is very important to be routed externally, in order to ease up the work!
I have a road bike with internal gear cables and running really light disc brakes externally, it works for me.
My mountain bike is all external, but I keep the whole length of the gear cable covered and use velcro ties to hold them all to the frame as it was created for exposed wire gears and brakes, but has fluid disc brakes, much easier and simple to maintain. I would love a simple frame without the brackets I don't need for external routing.
I totally agree with you. I just bought a Cannondale synapse 105 and it has internal cables.
I love the bike but I've already had cable issues only after two weeks of riding in the rain.
The shift cable housings that came with the bike were of poor quality and started to rust. The brakes seem to be working fine.
I pulled back the front derailier hood and tried to pull on the cable but it was stuck. I then took off the bottom plastic cover to look at the cables and noticed that the guide that goes under the bottom bracket to the front derailier broke in half which rendered the bike shiftless. ( I might have broken this when pulling on the cable with pliers to free it up)
Your definitely right about rain and dirt getting into the frame. Where the cable come out of the frame above the bottom bracket to the front derailier there's a small hole but no rubber bushing. It's just waiting for water and dirt to pour into.
So I did a little DYI and took a piece of shifter cable housing and installed it where the cable usually sits. I did some modification and it now goes up to the derailier, under the bottom bracket and up the down tube about 10 cm.
I then calked the hole with silicone.
It's shifting great now. Just make sure to get at least the Ultegra shift cable set, they are coated with a polymer coating and shift way way better then the standard set and seem way more rust proof.
I am now working on sealing up all the other holes going into the frame.
One benefit I do see with internal cable housing would be when mounting frame packs for endurance riding, the Velcro won't interfere with the external cables.
Great insights! Made me think thrice and not consider internal cabling due to maintenance / cleaning. THANKS!
I always use the thin plastic liner to prevent any cables being exposed to the elements and it comes up to the front and rear derailleur so only the tip can potentially corrode
internal cabling comprises shifting, 11 speed has smaller increments so it gets amplified, now we have electric shifting to fix poor internal shifting. external shifting has a lot less friction for the derailleur spring to release the indexing, notice most top end italian bikes still use semi or full external shifting.
Great video, good points. Internal cabling is sometimes just marketing, unless you are racing there is no significant benefit, only downside. On my internally cabled TT bikes, the extra maintenance is a real pain, so I would rather not bother. I have had to modify these internally cabled bikes to avoid dirt and poor shifting, a pain, and mine do not provide proper blanking grommets - it is poor design. Whereas it is easy to do on the external ones, even on CX bikes that have to deal with extreme mud and water. My vote goes to the Jagwire MTB cable set with the extended end caps with male female ends to eliminate any exposed shift / brake wire.
Thank You for bring this topic!
SickBiker, Tip for you. Use heat shrink tubing (not electrical tape) to connect your cables when routing new internal cables.
Great advice. I also use heat shrink tubing on the end of the cables instead of aluminium end crimps. Much neater and streamlined ;)
Heat shrink on the cable end is a good idea too! I typically just solder the cable end then it will never fray.
If so, then solder with Bismuth paste. Can be done with one hand only, and is beginner-friendly.
Are u sure that the holes are drilled? I believe they are molded and therefor the fibers go around the hole which does not brake the stress path that much.
Mathieu B I don't think he realizes that the engineers know this and design there way around it or determined it was a big structural comprise.
companies care about sales if there are people like you who is willing to pay more for inferior product they'll make it. he does not say anything about engineering. he's talking about a very simple thing; is it weaker than a frame without holes? yes. no matter how perfect you engineer it, YES. it WILL be weaker and thats the point.
marble89 You are correct. You also fail to realize that although a frame that has holes is weaker, no one ever puts their frame in enough stress for it to matter either. I do not know why you are saying people like me willing to buy.......I have a 2011 Fuji reveal 1.0. It has only what needed to be changed on it.
Who put these holes on the bottom and top of my headtube, outrageous!
Yea the holes are not drilled and it doesn't weaken the frame. He's just making claims and guesses like usual.
Love the salesman that pandered to him and called him smart. He was so pleased by that flattery that he made a video.
11:15 Shrinking tube is useful to connect cables together.
If you not mention, main use naked inner cable is prevent long outer cable spring-effect.
Internal also has problems with annoying rattles
Only really crappy ones. Solid bike brands solved this out ages ago. But if it rattles already, it's not that hard to fix it.
Indulonman Correct. I just purchased a 2017 Cannondale Quick4 with internal cables and it's near perfect.. They added some gaskets at the holes keeping the cables snug. Had a little rattle with the rear brake cable. The rear cable (along the top tube) is the only cable without these gaskets so it can move freely when turning the handlebars and sqweezing the brake lever. But a quick fix was me simply spinning or twisting i should say the cable housing with my fingers and it was gone. Or just shorten the rear brake cable housing about a half inch would also fix it. The bike mech when building your bike gives extra cable length on that particular cable probably for security reasons and or Cannondale spec code. My bike is rock solid..love it 👍Acid green color she's a beaut! lol
Great tips, especially attaching new cable to old when replacing.
Pure gold, as usual.
Poor internal cable routing design doesnt make internal cable routing bad, there are plenty of internally routed frames that are well designed and make setup a breeze. There are terrible externally routed frames too, routing on the top tube drives me nuts, always getting snagged on stuff and feels so awkward when you pick up the bike.
The trick I use is to run cable liners on ALL my cables. Seems to reduce friction and it will definitely make routing them easy.
Couldn't agree more that internal cabling is a bad idea both in terms of reducing frame strength, providing entry point access for moisture, and increasing the complexity of replacing cables. The trick about joining the new internal cable to the old one so that as the old one is withdrawn the new one is installed is a good one. I haven't actually tried this but it occurs to me that one way of securely joining the two cables together might be to take a common cable end cap, cut off the closed end, insert the old cable into one and and crimp, insert the new cable into the other end and crimp, and then pull the old cable out and the new cable in.
Great video.
How are you getting on with both cannondale s anyway?
No cables - no routing, no issues :D
Haha, fixed gear for life! :D
Nope. Electronic shifting is the only way to go!
PS Fixed gear bike is not a bike.
Have you ever ridden one? It's really fun!
No. I'm smart enough to not to ride bike without brakes outside track. Going downhill 50-70kph without brakes in crowded city sounds like a lot of fun.
I'm running a front brake on mine and actually use it a lot. And I live on the country side, so barely any crowded places here.
My mountain bike came with internal routing. It rattles around in there and is definitely the noisiest part of my bike. When I'm due for a cable replacement, I'll probably just rip it out and run the cables externally for the sake of not rattling.
My last bike had all internal routing, I loved it until it came time to change the cables or housing. Needless to say my current bike has external routing, apart from the dropper post.
What about fully encased, but externally routed cables? They're easy to access, and the cable itself is protected from the elements by the casing...
I deadly hate internal cable. My areo RB carbon frame is full internal cable, so I know how painful it is. I bought it just because the frame only sells 105 dollars. (Yet the cheapest one I could find in the market)
External cable routing provides better shifting feeling, and it is much more easily to maintain and replace. I can just spend few minutes to replace brake cable and shift cable. But on internals, nah... I still remember that day I spent 2 hours to change my shift cable for my rear derailleur.
I think some manufacturers build internal channels for the cables to both hold them in place, and make it easier to replace them (as easy as just pushing them thru). Also, I think it'd be exceptionally rare that anyone would ever apply the amount of torsional pressure it would require to exploit the holes in the frame. If this were an issue, the practice would be discontinued immediately. How long would consumers continue to pay for $2000+ frames that cracked because of internal cable routing? That's not to say I think less of external routing, I just think it all boils down to good design and personal preference. So many great bikes to choose from!
thanks for the video very informative
Many internally-routed cables run the full length of the frame, increasing friction. So an internally-routed cable comes with worse shifting and braking.
My budget MTB came with a half internal, half external setup (Sunpeed Stella). Two holes on the right, one hole on the left; I'd say tho that the stock setup was terrible given that. I had to go motorcycle style on my brake setup in order to make it go right-left and left-right. The rest of the cables run externally on the chainstay and bottom bracket part.
Good tips 🙂👍🏻
Got to also add, I dislike lifting and handling my bike with piano strings scratching the paint, and to get tangle-up in, snagged (and the kids love to play and pull on them) its quite a bit easier to clean an internal routed cable bike. You can also see most of the cable outlets have been specially molded beyond the regular shape and dimensions of the carbon tube, there by giving abnormal strength to the areas. Some might be concerned with frame stiffness, but I myself, i'd rather have a flexible carbon frame for road vibration reduction. And yes, never drill carbon "fiber" as you will likely wont like the outcome. Now, leave me alone... I need to go fix my rattling internal cable issues ;-)
This video will be timeless!
Who needs cables when you have a Bluetooth powered drivetrain.
Next:- No chain.
When I was racing off road, we would pump light grease into the cable housings to prevent water getting into them. Some people removed the plastic sleeves from the SIS housings and installed a continuous sleeve that ran from one end to the other so the cable was completely protected in the areas where it exited the SIS housing (and they would also fill the entire thing with grease). Why did we go to such lengths? We had races where we would start with brand new cables and housings and by the end, they would all need replacement. Fortunately that didn’t happen too often. Gnarly, muddy conditions in Alaska racing.
Internal cable routing is a bitch for practical mechanical needs when you’re having to constantly replace them. And trying to fish a cable through is a pain if you don’t take steps like attaching a string first so you can pull a new cable through the frame. I’m all in for external routing.
I think you can tape some bag to the end of the cable put it in the hole and then use a hoover at the other hole to suck it through.
*Carbon structure
I don't know whether you have faced forces affecting your bike but:
1. carbon fiber matrix - if processed well - is able to resist way more forces, than almost 99,99% of all riders can produce.
2. At the Head tube - where internal cables enter the frame - the forces are even smaller than at the bottom bracket. It makes NO difference whether the riders produced force encumbers 60% or 70% of the frame resistance capacity.
3.Some of the best and stiffest bikes use internal cable routing without any stiffness issues/problems. So why getting even more stiff frames (with external routing), if it makes NO difference at all? Saving another 17,46757g? Flawless in my opinion.
*Installation
Well, if there are no liners (anymore) in the frame its a slight pain. But with some experience, a vacuum cleaner and/or a magnet, its done in 5-10min.
*look
I think it is an objective argument, if I claim: internal routing is WAY more beautiful and clean.
Resume: I see NO REASON AT ALL to external route ...
*fork internal routing: well, that indeed looks stupid
Your absolutely right! Internal routing looks really sexy, but the replacement sucks! Had to change my cables few weeks ago and it took more than a hour! Much easier you put a liner over the old cable and use it as guide for the new. But an external routing i would prefer. Sorry my english is not so good;)
i build up my new cube stereo 120 frame and after routing the cables internally there are already so messed up and stratched...especially the routing for the dropper post was a mess...because of the steep angles the cable has to go...and i had to rebleed the brake for the rear wheel because of the internal routing....also the rubber cable stops for the holes where not included when i bought the frame and the local cube store only had ones for only one cable in the hole...and i have 2 holes where i fitted 2 cables...so i bought rubber stops for automotive use on amazon and cut them....so stressfull :D
Obsesses about a "perceived" weakness in a frame due to cable routing, yet clamps his bike's toptube in the stand when the seatpost is right there....
He is just celebrating that he has no cables there, ha! 😂
Internal cable routing is good when you want to strap some extra frame bags on it. But contrary to expectation, it seems that on those cheapest commuting bikes, where you might want to have some extra bags most. There isn't internal cable routing.
wise words. same can be said for disc brakes and tubeless
The front derailleur on my Izalco was acting up so I tried to replace the (internal) cable; I couldn't pull it. It probably was what the guy said about dirt and water getting in the housing. I had to take the bike to the shop where, after i paid some money, I got it back with a new cable. I don't know exactly what they did but I got charged 2 hours labor.
Some bike companies do drill the cable entrances on their frames, but some of them are also pre-molded.
Also, I've been riding internal cable bikes since they became common years ago and I have never had a bike fail on me or I have never had a cable maintenance nightmare.
Totally agree with you! I think fashion and appearance are now in danger of superseding the mechanical functioning on bikes today!
Not everything new is necessarily better !
i just bought a giant fhatom 29 internal cable routing and i really disliked the look but when i test the bikei just love the shifting quality the shift of an internal cable is al lot better than external and the cables didn´t get dirt with first ride
I think engineers would make sure that the frame is strong enough even with holes in the frame. Any bike manufacturer will make sure that the bike has some kind of a safety factor ... basically the bike is overbuilt to sustain years of punishment.
How can you praise a bike for having external cable routing (i.e. Drilling holes and creating stress raisers) when it only has one fork arm!
I've got an excellent Simplon Pavo frame, really high-end, and guess what? Everything is external; I am writing this because many people assume that the more is internal, the better and more valuable the bike is, which is misleading. I think a sophisticated frame is well made and has most of its cables and housings external, so the maintenance is hassle-free or at least without many problems.
Will you use a rigid fork for the steel frame proyect?.
"Driling holes"?! Those are molded into the frame, with structural reinforcements on the inside.
No. most of the holes are drilled and cut in in after the frame is built. The areas where it will be drilled are reinforced with extra material during the molding process.
Usually all the holes in the carbon frames are reinforced with extra carbon/resin layouts. At least this is what brands say.
Yeah, this guy is so ignorant and naive.
There's one disadvantage for internal routing cables. Over some time when the oil in the internal routing cables runs out, the braking and gear shifting wont be as smooth, as there is only one route do the cable to move, most cable will rub against the housing causing the braking and shifting to be less smooth. So non-internal routing is good if you are lazy for maintenance as cables can freely move, housing too. So the cables wont rub against the inside of the housing that much meaning shifting and braking experience is better. However, internal cable routing is also great, if internal cable routing is properly made by manufacturer with water caps, its much sleek and nice. Just saying. So overall non-internal cable is good
depends what quality cables you use- better to pay more and service them less frequently- if you use high-quality coated cables I think it's better as you have everything inside, almost sealed compared to outside with dirt & water access
external all day long.. I say this after having to swap brakes over between my mountain bikes one inside and one outside...total nightmare made worse due to XT connections at the hose ends .
Don't ask someone who rides as someone who fixes them external routing is the best bet
stubbk3 next time try it from the lever end and use a hose connector that comes with RS Reverb seat post - 3€ separately - you'll be done in 3 minutes.
Nice to find such a relic...now that we have full internal and etaps while external means cheap bike...
Do a build video with that steel frame(:
i am also not a big fan of Internalcable, Hollowtech, PressfitBB and co.
But to be fair, at the BB there is no big hole, just a small one for screw or so to hold the plastic cable guide in place.
For aesthetic value internal cables for ease of service external cable
Is there a video of the Kona Explosif build?
Thanks man ,youtube,Great video 👍👍
Clean look is the new marketing scam :D
Internal cable are for the pro since the mechanic do the dirty labor job :)
Hello! What type of mechanic stand are you using in this video?
internal all the way, modern, tidy, and not really an issue to replace. remember your only replacing one at a time. most dropper posts are internal.
what about brake housing ran internally to the rear disks brakes? should the housing be kept short?
Totally agree. Who was the fella who created it? I just had a sucking moment trying to route a new cable into a new grommet. Trying to pop the grommet out is very difficult because it is tight. And one of it went inside the down tube. $#@&! After fitting the cable inside the grommet, another challenge to put the grommet back inside the hole. Damn wasting time.
If you routed the brake hose externally, you'd have to bond metal pieces to the fork, which would be no better for strength and could lead to delamination.
Please, where can I find the external guide at 8:00 ?
Thanks for the video:)
love it, only way to go.
My c1994 Trek 1400 has internal cables, so I guess it's not exactly new.
Would it help to remove the bottom bracket entirely on frames that don't have an access panel like the Super Six Evo?
...So why did you buy it if you don't like it?
Daniel Mora right? His video whining about 1x systems and yet every bike he had in the video had a 1x system. This dude just loves to complain and tell every one how much he loves his Cannondale lmao
I'll just leave it to my mechanic to do all the work xD
I hate that front mech routing too, on my focus bike, after winter the cable is full of mud, dirt, salt.
Gear shifter is on the right and chainring shifter on the left?
I need some advice. When i downshift the cable guard (this black hose around the real cable, i don't know the english word) comes loose and moves, so there isn't enough tension for the gears to change ( its the Shimano SLX shift lever (3x10) on the right side (model year:2014))
attaching your carbon bike to your workstand by frame???
I have a custom made steel MTB frame, and I specifically asked for all external cables, and none of them are split. Full housing end to end.
Great video, internal is purely aesthetics....agreed.
I have a Jamis carbon bike and just had problems with the front derailleur not downshifting to the smallest chainring. I removed the cover underneath the bottom bracket and found the problem. Dirt had filled the plastic guide and was preventing the cable from moving freely. I now have an additional service step for this bicycle. I can see no way of preventing dirt and water flowing down the vertical section of cable going from my front derailleur into the frame and settling in the bottom bracket without adding stiction. Something that will keep this bicycle from being one that is a practical, dependable bicycle. A shame because it is my lightest, fastest bicycle. An issue that would not exist if it had external routing.
Does this apply to Mountain bikes also? I have Scott scale 760 (xc bike) with external cable routing and I was not happy with it because cable ties everywhere. (just the looks, not in terms of performance)
beautiful canyon
never clamp a carbonframe at the Frame, use the seatpost!
th-cam.com/video/X9yO2FJbjFM/w-d-xo.html
It's 2021, and internal cable routing is ubiquitous. This may come down to people that rely on their LBS for all their maintenance needs vs people that maintain and/or build up the bikes themselves. Being in the latter group it's easy for me to observe the design concessions and nuisance of internal cable routing. Even with the magnetic based tools now available to assist internal cable routing is a time waster. The best development I've seen on this is true wireless drivetrains a la Etap. I prefer Ergo controls and am hoping Campagnolo releases a true wireless version, which I'll transition to en masse.
Do you know about any examples of fractured frames because of the integrity weakness due to the drillings?
It may not fracture, but you won't get as stiff or as efficient a frame as you could have had.. Nobody wants to ride an inefficient noodle for the sake of some basic aesthetics.... it's like people who drive convertible sports cars - with a chassis that is often massively compromised with poor performance, where a sports car should normally shine.
Um... It's called an analogy....
For both bikes and cars the goal is stiffness of frame or chassis for mechanical efficiency and direct power transfer. It's one of the key goals of effective mechanical engineering...
axiomic Do you feel the difference in frame/fork/chainstay stiffness between internal and external cable routing bikes? Peter Sagan doesn't seem to have a problem with it...
As with cars, it depends how well it's done and compensated elsewhere in the construction. I'm sure it's mostly not too much of a drama. Interestingly, the Specialized road bike frames are some of the heaviest on the market... even their new line of xc mtb hardtail frames are lighter. So I doubt Sagan has anything to worry about.
axiomic It's more in theory than in practice. I'm yet to hear about cracked frames or complains about performance due to internal cable routing. Aero road frames are heavier but I don't think the cable routing has too much to do with it and they can still be under the UCI limit.
It is not cutted into the frame. Its bilt in
Roger Watt your English skills clearly weren’t built in
@@sethrogers3892 thanks for the super useful and insightful comment that totally isn't bigoted.
great idea to clamp on the top tube.. not
Nice video, however your talking about damaging the high end carbon bike, then you go ahead and clamp the top tube????
Canyon engineer “Well I am much bigger than 15 cm”
😅
Nothing to do with cables but you shouldn't clamp your carbon frame. Clamp it on the saddle ;)
Seat post you mean
Lol
Kona Explosif!!!! great taste!
Im not actually comfortable having holes in my frame, but then that’s where the fashion trend went. I actually prefer external cable as I can see whether the cable is already corroded.
I like your cable routing trick but I'm skeptical that electrical tape will hold it.
I've got one internal routing bike. It was a complete hassle to change the housing. Any tips for converting to external?
Get a new bike.
Co w przypadku ram aluminiowych? Wiercenie otworów w ramie aluminiowej osłabia ją tak samo bardzo jak w przypadku karbonu? Czy takie otwory są może w jakiś sposób wzmacniane? Pozdrawiam.
Internal cable is required absolutely cause it is clean outside of frame, so safe to the riders in any situations. And it is easy to water clean of the frame.
And it is more aerodynamic.
Problems are that the frame producers and maintenance mechanics don't care much about it now. They can make all maintenance procedures are easy for us to follow if they care, design the frame more than now.
Of course its frame production cost could be increased, but also this matters could be overcomed if they are smart enough.
Some people are saying "ah, but the holes are moulded, so they are very strong", but the fact remains that a frame with a hole in it is weaker than a frame that doesn't. And sure, you're not likely to break the frame from sheer force of pedaling, but it only takes one shock impact to begin a crack.
i don't agree with the statement that "the frame is weaker", using simulation softwares manufactures are able to detect the unecessary material that can be removed without affecting the rigidity and the "strength" of the frame
other than that, i do agree is a nightmare for bike mechanics and i'm willing to embrace the risk since it looks so damn neat and tidy
Great so interesting
Nowdays, most of flagship roadbike are fully internal even inside the stem. Right?
Simply design the frames with grooves or channels so all cables are external and design detachable covering panels for maintenance, how hard can it be.