I'd forgotten all about this channel, but I'm so glad it's still going! Truly worthy of its name. I knew the knives seemed to appear in the north and west before the lands of Huaxia, but hadn't heard of the connection to the Karasuk culture. It makes a lot of sense! Thanks for sharing. Ring pommels kind of survived in later 1h dao... just the rings got so small that they can't be detected without an electron microscope. =p The pommel was filled in, presumably for ease of manufacture as times had become harder, but they still generally echoed the outline of the ring pommels, which is pretty neat. As you say, it really shows that they had no particular function at the time. During the Qing dynasty, some crudely manufactured jian had hanging holes punched in the pommel again (though often through the grip instead), showing that whatever the original reason, the simple one was good enough. The images of old dao with jade pommels might suggest another possible use, in cases like that (and potentially in the old animal forms too), which is as a container for some kind of supernatural power, as something like a spiritual symbol or lucky charm. I'm under the impression that jade rings (called "bi") are found in burials, often over the heart, with a meaning that's probably completely lost, though some later authors have made guesses. It seems contrary with the idea of a dao as a crude weapon, to suggest that they carried some illustrious symbol, but obviously a lot of care was taken to make many of them beautiful and elegant. While dao were used as butcher's tools during the Warring States period, they were also used as scholars' tools. =)
This is great! The information about Ordos dao, and the very early start of ringpommels is especially interesting. It is a fascinating topic and neat to see such a distinct cultural design/feature that persists through 2500+ years of dao usage. The influence to adjoining cultures (Japanese ring pommels, and even Sarmatian, Bulgar, and Roman swords) would be interesting to track as well…
Yes, I suspect that the early ordos ring pommels or the earlier beast head pommels may also be connected to pommel designs in other parts of the world. It is an interesting topic for sure!
It is an interesting topic. Ring pommels seem to have developed independently among the Celts and it's not entirely clear whether the Romans copied them or the Sarmatians, the latter of whom were certainly connected to the same origin as the Chinese ring pommels, as they were connected with the nomadic people of the Ordos loop; both apparently developing together in the area of the Altai mountains, before heading in opposite directions. The timing does suggest that the Romans were copying Sarmatians (or some related group, such as the Parthians), as their imitation of the Celts seems to have died with Caesar's near-complete conquest of said Celts, but at the same sort of time as ring-pommel spathae show up, so do Roman cataphractarii. As the video very sensibly points out though, there's always a potential for new finds to upset this kind of deduction.
Check out the Ghibli film Princess Mononoke. In it the main hero uses little finger to hang the knife by the ring while he is shooting with the bow. I have used it many times in larp fights and many times manage to turn the tables because of how quickly I can swap to the blade and back to bow. I know it's probably not the main reason, but it is absolutely the most practical use for the ring pommel I have ever seen (and to think the idea came from a Miyazaki film!)
I also like that film, and I believe that what you describe is definitely a valid technique. In fact, I believe that it also appears in some medieval archery texts from the middle east using a ring pommel or sword tassel.
Some thoughts on Han dao. Modern practitioners like to have the lanyards around the wrists, but the ones depicted on the clay figurines look very thick and flat and the loops don't extend past the hilts, which makes me speculate that they were made to be pulled tout and laid flat again the back of the hand or the phalanges. Many parrellels can be drawn with contemporary swords that had constrictive hilts; the advantage being that the end users could customize the fit themselves by adjusting the knots, simplifying logistics, disaventage being deployment speed. This also illuminates the differences between employments in the military at the time. In many western cultures soldiers occupied castes of their own, and many served until they retired (later enlistment of a roman legionnary last 25 years!) whereas in ancient china the situations were fluid, going from intense sudden buildup to years of inactivity. edit: with lanyards so thick and flat (probably quite hefty), I doubt they flapped or twisted much on their own, meaning it would orientate probably when the hand goes for it.
No, the situation was often fluid in both Europe and East Asia, and both regions also had military castes. The ancient Greek armies and Roman Republican army mostly relied on conscript peasantry drafted into a temporary military that disbanded after the time of crisis had ended. Roman soldiers didn't serve 2 decades until well into the imperial era. On the other side of the world, many Watting States kingdoms had a warrior class nobility and relied on both permanent standing armies as well as militas. During the time of the Han Dynasty, the Han empire used both miltia armies as well as permanent standing armies, with the Western Han relying more on the former and the Eastern Han relying more on the later.
No, the situation was often fluid in both Europe and East Asia, and both regions also had military castes. Roman soldiers didn't serve 2 decades until well into the imperial era. On the other side of the world, many Warring States kingdoms had a warrior class nobility and relied on both permanent standing armies as well as militas. During the time of the Han Dynasty, the Han empire used both miltia armies as well as permanent standing armies, with the Western Han relying more on the former and the Eastern Han relying more on the later.
I think the reason the lanyards on the clay figurines appear wide and thick is because it is difficult to sculpt or cast a thin cord in clay without it being very fragile. And in the paintings of the time, they didn't have fine point pens to draw narrow lines.
@@ambulocetusnatans I don't buy that because all four figurines shown on lk Chen's website show consistency in their depictions, and there were much more faithful ways to depict thin layards than just sculpting them as wide flat pieces. The military Han dao was an very austere, utilitarian weapon, if there was an add-on it must be an indespensible accessory for exploiting the weapon's full usefulness, something like that tend not to be treated with artistic liberties.
@@Finnv893 It's not an artistic liberty so much as a limitation of the tools and skills of the artist. I'm sure they were a faithful as they could be, but they just couldn't do a better job. Not every sculptor or artist in the past had the talent of Michaelangelo.
你的视频很有意思！我学习了一点中文，但是，我的说和写并不好。Since you mentioned lanyards and tassels, could you please make a video about their use? My former shīfu told me that if I practice my sword form correctly the tassel would not disturb me but I’m not really convinced that this is the actual use of it.
I haven’t seem any evidence of that usage, but I have a rather limited exposure to everything that exists out there. At some point I may make a video focusing on decorative elements like tassels specifically.
Very impressive. I worked in a Chinese restaurant for a couple of years, and I didn't get much beyond "please", "excuse me", and "this order no MSG." As for the topic, do you think the Sarute on a Japanese Tachi is evolved from the ring on a ring pommel?
Great question! I am not an expert on nihonto so unfortunately I cannot give any definitive answers. I know that some Tang dynasty swords like the one I showed in this video have extra loops attached, but this does not necessarily mean that it is related to the sarute. I will look into this more in the future
I'd forgotten all about this channel, but I'm so glad it's still going! Truly worthy of its name.
I knew the knives seemed to appear in the north and west before the lands of Huaxia, but hadn't heard of the connection to the Karasuk culture. It makes a lot of sense! Thanks for sharing.
Ring pommels kind of survived in later 1h dao... just the rings got so small that they can't be detected without an electron microscope. =p
The pommel was filled in, presumably for ease of manufacture as times had become harder, but they still generally echoed the outline of the ring pommels, which is pretty neat. As you say, it really shows that they had no particular function at the time. During the Qing dynasty, some crudely manufactured jian had hanging holes punched in the pommel again (though often through the grip instead), showing that whatever the original reason, the simple one was good enough.
The images of old dao with jade pommels might suggest another possible use, in cases like that (and potentially in the old animal forms too), which is as a container for some kind of supernatural power, as something like a spiritual symbol or lucky charm. I'm under the impression that jade rings (called "bi") are found in burials, often over the heart, with a meaning that's probably completely lost, though some later authors have made guesses. It seems contrary with the idea of a dao as a crude weapon, to suggest that they carried some illustrious symbol, but obviously a lot of care was taken to make many of them beautiful and elegant. While dao were used as butcher's tools during the Warring States period, they were also used as scholars' tools. =)
This is great! The information about Ordos dao, and the very early start of ringpommels is especially interesting. It is a fascinating topic and neat to see such a distinct cultural design/feature that persists through 2500+ years of dao usage. The influence to adjoining cultures (Japanese ring pommels, and even Sarmatian, Bulgar, and Roman swords) would be interesting to track as well…
Yes, I suspect that the early ordos ring pommels or the earlier beast head pommels may also be connected to pommel designs in other parts of the world. It is an interesting topic for sure!
It is an interesting topic. Ring pommels seem to have developed independently among the Celts and it's not entirely clear whether the Romans copied them or the Sarmatians, the latter of whom were certainly connected to the same origin as the Chinese ring pommels, as they were connected with the nomadic people of the Ordos loop; both apparently developing together in the area of the Altai mountains, before heading in opposite directions.
The timing does suggest that the Romans were copying Sarmatians (or some related group, such as the Parthians), as their imitation of the Celts seems to have died with Caesar's near-complete conquest of said Celts, but at the same sort of time as ring-pommel spathae show up, so do Roman cataphractarii. As the video very sensibly points out though, there's always a potential for new finds to upset this kind of deduction.
Your tone might be the best ive heard from a Chinese learner, keep it up
Thank you, I am just striving to improve one step at a time.
Let’s make some collaborations on Chinese melee weapons and armor
Yes it would be great to collaborate on a couple videos sometime!
了不起! 無論你講是對是錯，能有全程中文的勇氣和能力，已經值得讚許。讚一個!
謝謝你！其實我在嗶哩嗶哩上發布了一個尃欄動態改正了這視頻中的錯誤，在那邊可以看一下
@@thescholar-general5975
Btw, I saw you you showed up in LK Chen's recent video, looks like you had some fun in his facility.
Once again, well done.
Thank you! I am enjoying your content as well!
Check out the Ghibli film Princess Mononoke. In it the main hero uses little finger to hang the knife by the ring while he is shooting with the bow. I have used it many times in larp fights and many times manage to turn the tables because of how quickly I can swap to the blade and back to bow. I know it's probably not the main reason, but it is absolutely the most practical use for the ring pommel I have ever seen (and to think the idea came from a Miyazaki film!)
I also like that film, and I believe that what you describe is definitely a valid technique. In fact, I believe that it also appears in some medieval archery texts from the middle east using a ring pommel or sword tassel.
Great topic, Brother! Very informative! ⚔
As always thanks for your support!
Some thoughts on Han dao. Modern practitioners like to have the lanyards around the wrists, but the ones depicted on the clay figurines look very thick and flat and the loops don't extend past the hilts, which makes me speculate that they were made to be pulled tout and laid flat again the back of the hand or the phalanges.
Many parrellels can be drawn with contemporary swords that had constrictive hilts; the advantage being that the end users could customize the fit themselves by adjusting the knots, simplifying logistics, disaventage being deployment speed.
This also illuminates the differences between employments in the military at the time. In many western cultures soldiers occupied castes of their own, and many served until they retired (later enlistment of a roman legionnary last 25 years!) whereas in ancient china the situations were fluid, going from intense sudden buildup to years of inactivity.
edit: with lanyards so thick and flat (probably quite hefty), I doubt they flapped or twisted much on their own, meaning it would orientate probably when the hand goes for it.
No, the situation was often fluid in both Europe and East Asia, and both regions also had military castes. The ancient Greek armies and Roman Republican army mostly relied on conscript peasantry drafted into a temporary military that disbanded after the time of crisis had ended. Roman soldiers didn't serve 2 decades until well into the imperial era. On the other side of the world, many Watting States kingdoms had a warrior class nobility and relied on both permanent standing armies as well as militas. During the time of the Han Dynasty, the Han empire used both miltia armies as well as permanent standing armies, with the Western Han relying more on the former and the Eastern Han relying more on the later.
No, the situation was often fluid in both Europe and East Asia, and both regions also had military castes. Roman soldiers didn't serve 2 decades until well into the imperial era. On the other side of the world, many Warring States kingdoms had a warrior class nobility and relied on both permanent standing armies as well as militas. During the time of the Han Dynasty, the Han empire used both miltia armies as well as permanent standing armies, with the Western Han relying more on the former and the Eastern Han relying more on the later.
I think the reason the lanyards on the clay figurines appear wide and thick is because it is difficult to sculpt or cast a thin cord in clay without it being very fragile. And in the paintings of the time, they didn't have fine point pens to draw narrow lines.
@@ambulocetusnatans I don't buy that because all four figurines shown on lk Chen's website show consistency in their depictions, and there were much more faithful ways to depict thin layards than just sculpting them as wide flat pieces. The military Han dao was an very austere, utilitarian weapon, if there was an add-on it must be an indespensible accessory for exploiting the weapon's full usefulness, something like that tend not to be treated with artistic liberties.
@@Finnv893 It's not an artistic liberty so much as a limitation of the tools and skills of the artist. I'm sure they were a faithful as they could be, but they just couldn't do a better job. Not every sculptor or artist in the past had the talent of Michaelangelo.
你的中文很好！ 加油！
哪里，哪里
啊啊啊在bilibili看到您的中文版！好耶！
in a modern context some ring pommels can be used to open beer bottles
Nothing better than cracking open an ice cold beer right after slaying your enemies!
A very important use to be sure!
你的视频很有意思！我学习了一点中文，但是，我的说和写并不好。Since you mentioned lanyards and tassels, could you please make a video about their use? My former shīfu told me that if I practice my sword form correctly the tassel would not disturb me but I’m not really convinced that this is the actual use of it.
I haven’t seem any evidence of that usage, but I have a rather limited exposure to everything that exists out there. At some point I may make a video focusing on decorative elements like tassels specifically.
@@thescholar-general5975 Thanks, yes, that would be great!
Very impressive. I worked in a Chinese restaurant for a couple of years, and I didn't get much beyond "please", "excuse me", and "this order no MSG."
As for the topic, do you think the Sarute on a Japanese Tachi is evolved from the ring on a ring pommel?
Great question! I am not an expert on nihonto so unfortunately I cannot give any definitive answers. I know that some Tang dynasty swords like the one I showed in this video have extra loops attached, but this does not necessarily mean that it is related to the sarute. I will look into this more in the future
ring pommels were independently invented by different cultures in the ancient world
Huh, I thought it was a Sassinian thing that spread out East and West.
说得还挺流利
W vid mr seely
👍
🤠👍🏿
Dude, sick Chinese
加油，你的中文已经很不错了。By the way, have you seen my video yet? If yes please comment, thanks.
I have watched about half of it! I will finish the rest this weekend and let you know my thoughts!
@@thescholar-general5975 Thanks, looking forward to your comment.
5:56 又看到中國人說五千年歷史了
追溯最早發現的文字，只有三千年
你的大脑至少还停留在二十年前，你是不是没有时间，不怎么接收新知识啊
你洋爹说五千年，你日爹说四千年，你是要谋逆？