As someone who is taught in the German Longsword technique I find it fascinating how many of the stances and techniques are similar to how we use a sword with a smaller handle. Interesting how just some principles of swordsmanship are somewhat universal.
Thanks to Jeremy for letting me borrow this blade and thanks to my brother and his dog for helping me film the applications in this video! There is still a lot that could be said about this sword and I wanted to clarify a couple things here. For one, I have not extensively studied Qi Jiguang's manual or the Kage ryu scroll. So I am currently unable to say whether or not there are any shared techniques between the two with any degree of certainty. Aside from this, my interpretation of Cheng Zongyou's Dandao Faxuan is an ongoing project. Though, I have studied the manual for a while, there is always room for refining technique and revising interpretation / translations. For example, the "forward push posture" 迎推勢 could also be translated as "inviting push posture". In the future, I may discuss other sections of the manual or revisit some of the ones I have done here.
As I understand it, Japanese scholars of the Shinkage Ryu are studying General Qi's manual and the Wu Bei Zhi trying to reconstruct the lost original form of Kage Ryu.
@@ambulocetusnatans Yep. Even weirder, there seems to be TWO Kage Ryu's. One that is described in Qi Jiguang's manual which uses the 影 kanji to transcribe "Kage" which is attributed to Yamamoto Masakatsu and another that uses the 陰 kanji attributed to Aizu Iko and is the predecessor to the historically documented and famous Yagyu Shinkage Ryu. Weirdly enough though, both seem to share some techniques with one another just transcribed with different kanji. The plot is getting pretty messy on the Japanese side of things... :P
I've been following you since shortly after you started your channel, and I think I found you via a comment on one of Matt Easton's LK Chen sword reviews. I commend you on your improvement in your presentation skills and quality of content over these past few years. I very much appreciate what you do as one of the few English speaking presenters of Chinese martial arts who reference historical sources.
Thank you for your continued support! I am just trying to improve one step at a time. As far as history goes I just love studying the past, but it is not for everyone and sometimes the language barrier makes things difficult for many who would otherwise be interested in the topic.
AT LAST!! I have been patiently waiting for you to discuss this weapon for a long time and now it's here! YAY! :) As someone who has dug into historical Japanese martial arts and used to practice koryu, you're pretty much spot on regarding everything you said regarding the Japanese-influence on the Changdao. Great job! *A few notes to add from my perspective:* When comparing the Ming changdao sources with the few historical Japanese sources we have available like the mokuroku for the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Aizu Kage Ryu and Yamamoto Kansuke's Gunpo Heiho Ki, Kenjutsu No Maki, it's very clear to me that most of the techniques from the changdao sources are predominantly Chinese in origin. A long taolu-like sequence of moves like shown in Dandao Faxuan is extremely alien to Japanese koryu; modern and historical Japanese swordsmanship prefers to just have brief shows of a singular technique that reset to a neutral position before doing the next one kind of like what's done in HEMA and very unlike Chinese sources. In addition, the stances in the Chinese sources are sometimes weird and formatted very differently from a Japanese perspective. Japanese koryu kamae are actually pretty straight-forward and usually have a set of kamae named as high/jodan, middle/chudan, and low/gedan and possibly a few extra stances thrown in unique to the style. The Chinese sources seem to have a weird "everything and the kitchen sink" approach to the number and variety of stances in their styles without any real clear overall formatting like the high/middle/low classification for most Japanese systems. That and some stances like the "right/left leg stand stance" are never seen in any koryu I'm aware of and look very much like a "Shaolin kung fu" sort of thing. One odd thing though regarding Japanese influence is that Dandao Faxuan is one of the only historical East Asian sources I'm aware of that clearly shows and describes techniques for the sword being drawn in a "katana-like" fashion i.e. with the blade worn edge up thrust into a sash or belt. Since this method of wearing the sword isn't typical in China to my knowledge and more commonly shown in Japan, that probably is a strong indication that Dandao Faxuan did have some Japanese roots originally, but most of it is probably Chinese. What's even weirder though is that even in Japan, iaijutsu/sword drawing techniques are rarely if ever described in the historical sources. Hope these tidbits of info help clarify a few things from the Japanese side of things! :)
Thanks so much for your input! I had some intuition about the differences between shi and kamae but I was not experienced enough with Japanese sword arts to comment on them. I also think that the drawing techniques in the Dandao Faxuan are likely connected to Japanese ones!
I went on an internet deep dive the other day, and I discovered some interesting points that might be worth putting here. In Qi Jiguang's manuscript, it's mentioned that the blade is five rulers in length. Although that would make the sword almost unreasonably long, in Korea they have just that - a massive, 2 meter long blade that has a brass fitting at the bottom in order to use the sword like a polearm. There are a handful of videos that showcase not only this massive sword, but also the sword form that is in the Qi Jiguang inspired Korean manual "muyedobotongji". Look up "joseon swordsmanship" and you'll find what I'm referring to. I'm hoping LK Chen makes another Changdao with these measurements, just cause that would be awesome lol.
Yes, I am aware of the 2 meter blade that they use in Korea. It may be possible that Qi Jiguang intends his sword to be that long though I think that it would be necessary to add a long blade collar to it so that the weapon could be controlled more easily.
Been really looking forward to you covering this type of sword and really appreciate the technique demonstration. I do want to point out though, that swords with a ridged geometry, the Shinogi, and distinct junction point, yokote, and somewhat similar proportions existed in the Tang and earlier. As there are 500 years between then and 1514, there is almost certainly no direct connection between these swords. However, it does mean that swords with such features were not new to China, and they may have been somewhat familiar to the people of the time, perhaps as an "ancient style" of sword, or something. In terms of usage, it's interesting that it focuses so much on beating spears, whereas I have not noticed this fixation in the little odachi material I've seen.
Thanks for watching. You are correct that the shinogi is not new to china. Many tang blades appear to have kiriha zukuri and shinogi was not as common but still existed. Some tang blades also had angular points, but I am not sure about the yokote, because I do not know of any tang blades which are in the original polish and yokote can be created simply by polishing the blade in a different direction at the tip. During the Song and Yuan dynasty, blades with triangular cross sections (hira zukuri) seem to almost completely takeover. Song blades were also much broader and I suspect this has something to do with this shift. By the time we arrive in the ming, it may be possible that shinogi blades were reintroduced to China via trade with japan, but I am not confident saying that without more research.
Fascinating. I wasn't aware of CHMA (is that a thing ?). Loved how much effort you put in exploring the techniques as closely as possible to the book's descriptions.
@@chatter4427 I will make a video about this in the future. Although getting sharp swords in China is extremely difficult. HEMA has found quite a bit of success in mainland China and it is changing the way that Chinese people view their own weapon arts.
Sharpened weapon is prohibited in public areas, but purchase of sharpened weapons isn’t prohibited. People use federschwerts and blunt sparring swords in HMA anyways so I don’t know what you are talking about
@@FK-se4hq Yes, I know that blunt weapons are common in China. When it cones to sharp swords, The issue is that many delivery companies do not want to deal with the legal trouble of transporting the swords in public. Many companies, such as LK Chen do not even sell swords in Chiba for this reason. And, once you receive the swords, you have to cut things at a private place like a rooftop or even inside your home which can be a hassle.
wow, I'm studying weaponry for a story I'm planning to write and illustrate, this video and others like it are so helpful, and just dam right interesting, really sparked a passion i didn't know i had
great balance of scholarly background and demonstration of relevant technique. i wish such a comprehensive approach would be the norm for sword review videos, but as it is i find this outstanding in the field and look forward to more quality content.
I really appreciate you and your brother for showing the techniques in context. I've seen people do movements like this before, and they just look ridiculous on their own, particularly when spinning.
Thanks for watching! The techniques do make a lot more sense the way they are written in the manual but most of the kung fu world is more about flashiness as opposed to function and historical scholarship.
Hey, really interesting video. One thing I noticed with a lot of the stances is that one leg is always straight and the other is bent, for example the bow stance, lower insert stance, bury head stance etc.
Yes good observation! I don’t think the front leg in those postures is completely straight but it does look like they are back-weighted with the torso closer to the back foot than the front. I will try this out going forward!
this was supposed to be my sword.. but i visited my pond.. and meditated. the god of steel told me in my practice to give this to Jeremy. in a way i gave to my sword community cuse this guy gave me alot but jeremy should me the placement ..i love you all i hope i paid it back.
It was extremely generous of you to send the sword for review. I personally can’t thank you enough for how much it has elevated my own understanding of the weapons and I hope that my video here will also help the Chinese martial arts community.
Thank you for another amazing review I have been torn between this and the crossbowmans Dao I did wonder about the grip and now I will do for the Crosbowmans Thank you 🙏
Great videos man I especially love this one as I'm zeroing in on my first Nodachi/ miao dao (still debating China or Japan) but this is nonetheless very comprehensive as to the blade I'll be working with. And with your explanation of the king fu forms I do now see it as a bladed staff rather then a thin longsword.
Do you know what the Five Flowers (五花) techniques are that are mentioned in the Dandao Faxuan? It's used to describe so many techniques, like "Five Flowers Turn" (五花迎轉；五花右／左转身) or "Cut Five Flowers" (砍五花). I can't seem to find an explanation in manual itself.
I did not try to recreate the solo form. In my view, one possible explanation is that the 五花 is some type of flourish with the sword. In many contemporary styles spins with the dao are sometimes called flowers, and, in period sources, flashy forms are usually described as flowery.
Great. Now it seems obvious seeing you do it, but I hadn’t considered that low-line straight arm for the empty hand block for “shoulder dao” before. The single-handed pair of postures look like a simple system within themselves I guess: mid or low stab, use the straight arm to intercept and lift, for a higher one, use a closing forearm, then step in and follow up? If the spear attack aims to your outside, I guess you could change slightly into “single carry,” scoop or wipe to your outside, and either one-hand liao or reposition to thrust? So, like, single hand baiting and attacking to inside and outside? And pointing out grip wrap issues on this is good info, thanks.
Thanks for watching! I had to read the original a few times before I realized what Cheng Zongyou meant exactly by this technique but once I saw it everything fell into place. I definitely think that the “Single Carry” is an option from the “Shoulder the Dao” position. I also think that the “Enter the Cave” stance is another option from here. The single handed liao which you mention has a lot of reach and is very difficult to defend against if the spear is caught.
Yes exactly! I thought if “enter the cave” / “bury head stance” as options from there too, but just left it out of my already long comment. DDFX is simple but really really good.
@@mulli032 Yeah with a good amount of practice I could see it being an interesting challenge for the spearman especially with the daggers too. I am no good at range weapons but I should practice more to make them a viable option.
for grip wrap I use 3m tape one two side of the grip and wrap on, additionally LK's wood fitting will shrink over time in drier climate (Canada in my case) so the wrap need to be redone couple time in the first couple years, after that the wood settles
Good question! A different version of the Kage ryu scroll just has stick figures, but this version in the Wubeizhi has monkeys. I am not totally sure why but it may be because a two of the three kage ryu techniques listed have monkey in the name. (猿飛 flying ape & 猿回 returning ape)
@@thescholar-general5975 There is a legend attributed to the (Yamamoto) Kage Ryu founder that he had a dream and a monkey deity revealed the secrets of swordsmanship to him. The monkey icons and ape names for techniques are probably a reference to that and it is believed in Shinto that sometimes animals can act as messengers for the gods. The cousin style of that Kage Ryu, the (Aizu) Kage Ryu, prefers to use tengu 👺in its iconography, so it's not uncommon for Japanese martial arts scrolls to use animals or animal-like beings to describe techniques. Both may be referring in some way to the Shinto deity Sarutahiko Okami who is the leader of the earthly kami, the patron god of martial arts, has a tengu-like face, and is associated with monkeys.
There's some slight errors (of the video, not the content): at 24:05, your static shot and the manual image are changed to 腰砍刀勢, but the text didn't change. Also, at 24:48 you executed a 背砍刀勢 as a follow-up of 外看刀勢/Outer Watch Stance, but did not provide static shot/manual image for it.
Good catch! I I definitely missed the text change for the 腰砍刀勢. The 背砍刀勢 also does follow from the 外看刀勢 and I should have put it in. At the time I just did the whole move as described by the 外看刀勢 which does move you through the whole position of the 背砍刀勢 but doesn’t explicitly mention it. Later I would like to do another follow up vid to this one with the techniques and then some proper gear and sparring so I will make sure to include it in those ones.
I made this one myself. If you want to order one out of solid wood you probably have to get it custom. “Weapon Racks for Martial Arts” on facebook sells them.
LK Chen sells them themselves, but in a few months' time, I'm sure online retailers like Kult of Athena will have these in their stateside warehouse as well.
i'm not sure if it would be possible to do such a deep dive review of l k chen's flying phoenix, if any relevant enough manual even exists for han jian. be that as it may i would love to see your take on this sword. i'm doing my best to develop a personal practice for it, drawing inspiration from various sources including hema rapier technique to supplement jian forms of later time periods.
I have handled the flying phoenix and it is a very nice blade. Unfortunately we don’t have any surviving manuals from that time period but the bibliography of the Later Han History does reference a text called “the way of the jian” 劍道 but it is no longer extant. Unfortunately, I do not have a flying phoenix to review but I have reviewed the two other Han jian in my videos on the 8-sided jian and the Jian-Dao transition video. I also think that it is definitely possible to use rapier techniques with many han jian because of the similarities in blade geometry.
Very nice video. Though I have a question, how does this Chang Dao compare to its future counterpart the Miao Dao (let’s say lk chen silver swallow Miao Dao). Also how heavy is it feeling wise for this Chang Dao ? Is that heavy ? Or you can indeed use it one handed for some situation ?
The changdao is much heavier than the miaodao. The miaodao can be used for very quick percussive strikes and can then snap back to a guard position. The changdao requires a lot more build up to use and is meant for warfare and not dueling.
Great question! Linguistically Changdao just means long dao and zhanmadao means horse-chopping dao. During the Ming period swords like the one shown here were described as changdao or dandao while zhanmadao often referred to glaives or the wide bladed, clipped tip, and long handled dao which are sometimes called pudao today.
I am really curious as to whether records exist for how the weapon was used during it's period of issue and distribution. Are there any ? We're such swords effective against the enemies for whom they were designed ? Are any books currently available on them. These are fascinating weapons. It would really be a loss if no one during the period had reason to comment on them ! 😮😮
At 24:58, wouldn't it have been possible for the opponent to counter you just drop the spear, and close the distance while you're mid-spin to either put you in a hold, or if they were armed for a real fight, pull out a knife and stab you in the back? At 26:40, think it could have been easier if you had a buckler on your off-hand?
Thanks for watching! The key to spinning in is to maintain a bind on the spear for as long as possible before releasing the cut. Of course this is much easier said then done and it can be countered, but just like in unarmed martial arts spinning maneuvers can also work in armed combat if they are set up properly. As for the buckler in the left hand. It would help keep your hand from getting stabbed, but it would be harder to grab the spear. If you do manage to grab the spear then they are pretty much doomed so this is a high-risk / high-reward technique. Also holding a buckler in the left hand would make it difficult to hold the two handed sword.
Great question! This dao is carried in a sash similar to the japanese obi at least it is shown that way in Cheng Zongyou’s manual. I do not know about Qi Jiguang’s sword.
@@thescholar-general5975 Thanks for the speedy reply! That's very interesting - I almost feel like practicing the dandao is meant for me (seeing that I am a Chinese kendoka lol).
What was this type of sword really built for ? Infantry ? Cavalry riders ? Other ? Your thoughts if you can shed some light on period and theater or area practical uses ...?
I am not sure about the Japanese context, but in China these large two-handed swords or glaives usually protected the flanks of spearmen. This can be seen in Qi Jiguang’s mandarin duck formation.
@@yoiashi Thanks for watching! The long handle can do a couple things. 1. It adds leverage which can mean it is easier to control the blade and strike with more force. 2. It adds more reach. When using a two handed weapon like a longsword, the hand which grips the bottom of the handle prevents full extension of the top arm. By extending the handle, the bottom hand is further down the grip and thus, the top arm can extend further. Having a long does have the disadvantage of being a little harder to manipulate around the body. This is particularly true when doing cuts from the left to right.
This manual is a high resolution scan of an original Ming woodblock print. You can download the pdf from this site old.shuge.org/ebook/geng-yu-sheng-ji/ though it may be difficult to navigate if you don't read chinese.
changdao: long dao (any long dao, usually refers to either a polearm or a two handed saber) zhanmadao: horse chopping dao (a very large dao, can either refer to polearms, two-handed sabers, or a dao with proportions like a nagamaki) wodao: Japanese dao (any dao that has a blade design based on japanese swords) liaodao: Liao dynasty dao (any dao from the Liao period 916-1125 AD) Many of these definitions can also have some overlap.
LK Chen does not make any steel sparring changdao like this. The closest thing would be to look into steel sparring nodachi or miao dao amd see if there is something that works there.
@@CallofWar5 I don’t know many I have handled a couple in China that are not bad, but those companies do not ship internationally as far as I am aware. I have heard pretty good things about akado armory though so that might be a good place to check.
I won’t pressure you either way. But you should know that I will be moving soon to a place far away from Jeremy so I won’t be able to swap blades and shoot videos with him for the foreseeable future. I will talk about this topic on the channel sometime soon.
Great video; very interesting. Maybe you know already, but the style Wan Sheng Quan has a Miao Dao routine that still includes the flying knife technique. I don't know if it's a direct descendant of the technique from the manual, but it seems like it would be a big coincidence if it wasn't. You can see it here.. th-cam.com/video/Qi2Y8lmK3EE/w-d-xo.html
26:22 Hello my friend. I am also a 长刀 player. I understand your difficulties on switching Right Liao to Left Liao. So when doing the Left Liao, it would need you to “pull back” the handle with your left hand while using the waist & back muscles to turning your body. This explanation said from the Miaodao master 郭桂德 from Cangzhou, China. I hope this could help you 🙏 th-cam.com/users/shortsdfGZH-XUbyA?si=RRAwY1RM2kgBBCkX This how he demonstrates Liaodao technique
Thanks for watching! I would be hesitant to call this sword a Miao Dao for a few reasons. Miao Dao are usually not this long and heavy. They are mostly a 20th century two-handed saber with a pipe-back blade that is very light and agile. This blade feels quite a bit different from that.
@@TopCityCN There are no historical sources which use the term Miao Dao 苗刀 until the 20th century. Historical sources from the Ming period all unequivocally state that this weapon design was imported from Japan.
@@thescholar-general5975 During the Ming Dynasty, the Jiangsu and Zhejiang regions were invaded by Japanese pirates. The swords of the Ming army at that time were shorter than the Japanese samurai swords, which put them at a great disadvantage in fighting against the Japanese samurai. The original name of the Miao Dao was the Imperial Guard Sword, which was a two-handed long sword modified by Qi Jiguang based on the Japanese sword. The appearance of the sword is very similar to the Japanese sword, but the handle and blade thickness are slightly different.
@@TopCityCN Qi Jiguang clearly states that the changdao 長刀 design is stems from encounters with the wokou who were using Japanese swords. Whether or not it counts as a totally independent sword after it is made in China is largely semantic and not really detracting from the claims I made in the video. I am aware that there are some differences between Japan and China preferred in terms of tip grind (yokote or not), handle wrap (diamonds over ray skin or not), and grip attachment (peened or not). I mentioned these differences in the video, but it does not change the fact that the Ming adopted this design from Japanese swords.
@@thescholar-general5975 In fact, China and Japan have learned from each other for thousands of years and imitated and improved each other's sword prototypes.
I enjoyed the use of a spearman to illustrate the techniques. Made for a better understanding of how the form could be used
Thanks for watching! I am glad that you found it helpful!
As someone who is taught in the German Longsword technique I find it fascinating how many of the stances and techniques are similar to how we use a sword with a smaller handle. Interesting how just some principles of swordsmanship are somewhat universal.
There seems to be a lot of common elements here; a lot ! of crossover data !
Thanks to Jeremy for letting me borrow this blade and thanks to my brother and his dog for helping me film the applications in this video!
There is still a lot that could be said about this sword and I wanted to clarify a couple things here. For one, I have not extensively studied Qi Jiguang's manual or the Kage ryu scroll. So I am currently unable to say whether or not there are any shared techniques between the two with any degree of certainty. Aside from this, my interpretation of Cheng Zongyou's Dandao Faxuan is an ongoing project. Though, I have studied the manual for a while, there is always room for refining technique and revising interpretation / translations. For example, the "forward push posture" 迎推勢 could also be translated as "inviting push posture". In the future, I may discuss other sections of the manual or revisit some of the ones I have done here.
As I understand it, Japanese scholars of the Shinkage Ryu are studying General Qi's manual and the Wu Bei Zhi trying to reconstruct the lost original form of Kage Ryu.
My pleasure!
@@ambulocetusnatans Yep. Even weirder, there seems to be TWO Kage Ryu's. One that is described in Qi Jiguang's manual which uses the 影 kanji to transcribe "Kage" which is attributed to Yamamoto Masakatsu and another that uses the 陰 kanji attributed to Aizu Iko and is the predecessor to the historically documented and famous Yagyu Shinkage Ryu. Weirdly enough though, both seem to share some techniques with one another just transcribed with different kanji. The plot is getting pretty messy on the Japanese side of things... :P
@@JZBai Hmm..very interesting. Thanks for the input.
I've been following you since shortly after you started your channel, and I think I found you via a comment on one of Matt Easton's LK Chen sword reviews. I commend you on your improvement in your presentation skills and quality of content over these past few years. I very much appreciate what you do as one of the few English speaking presenters of Chinese martial arts who reference historical sources.
Thank you for your continued support! I am just trying to improve one step at a time. As far as history goes I just love studying the past, but it is not for everyone and sometimes the language barrier makes things difficult for many who would otherwise be interested in the topic.
日本刀的“house-shaped spine”在中国被称为“鲫鱼背”，元朝的弯刀就有这个东西，明朝“鲫鱼背”在刀上的应用更是十分广泛
Nice work deserves more recognition
AT LAST!! I have been patiently waiting for you to discuss this weapon for a long time and now it's here! YAY! :)
As someone who has dug into historical Japanese martial arts and used to practice koryu, you're pretty much spot on regarding everything you said regarding the Japanese-influence on the Changdao. Great job!
*A few notes to add from my perspective:*
When comparing the Ming changdao sources with the few historical Japanese sources we have available like the mokuroku for the Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Aizu Kage Ryu and Yamamoto Kansuke's Gunpo Heiho Ki, Kenjutsu No Maki, it's very clear to me that most of the techniques from the changdao sources are predominantly Chinese in origin. A long taolu-like sequence of moves like shown in Dandao Faxuan is extremely alien to Japanese koryu; modern and historical Japanese swordsmanship prefers to just have brief shows of a singular technique that reset to a neutral position before doing the next one kind of like what's done in HEMA and very unlike Chinese sources.
In addition, the stances in the Chinese sources are sometimes weird and formatted very differently from a Japanese perspective. Japanese koryu kamae are actually pretty straight-forward and usually have a set of kamae named as high/jodan, middle/chudan, and low/gedan and possibly a few extra stances thrown in unique to the style. The Chinese sources seem to have a weird "everything and the kitchen sink" approach to the number and variety of stances in their styles without any real clear overall formatting like the high/middle/low classification for most Japanese systems. That and some stances like the "right/left leg stand stance" are never seen in any koryu I'm aware of and look very much like a "Shaolin kung fu" sort of thing.
One odd thing though regarding Japanese influence is that Dandao Faxuan is one of the only historical East Asian sources I'm aware of that clearly shows and describes techniques for the sword being drawn in a "katana-like" fashion i.e. with the blade worn edge up thrust into a sash or belt. Since this method of wearing the sword isn't typical in China to my knowledge and more commonly shown in Japan, that probably is a strong indication that Dandao Faxuan did have some Japanese roots originally, but most of it is probably Chinese. What's even weirder though is that even in Japan, iaijutsu/sword drawing techniques are rarely if ever described in the historical sources.
Hope these tidbits of info help clarify a few things from the Japanese side of things! :)
Thanks so much for your input! I had some intuition about the differences between shi and kamae but I was not experienced enough with Japanese sword arts to comment on them. I also think that the drawing techniques in the Dandao Faxuan are likely connected to Japanese ones!
I went on an internet deep dive the other day, and I discovered some interesting points that might be worth putting here. In Qi Jiguang's manuscript, it's mentioned that the blade is five rulers in length. Although that would make the sword almost unreasonably long, in Korea they have just that - a massive, 2 meter long blade that has a brass fitting at the bottom in order to use the sword like a polearm. There are a handful of videos that showcase not only this massive sword, but also the sword form that is in the Qi Jiguang inspired Korean manual "muyedobotongji". Look up "joseon swordsmanship" and you'll find what I'm referring to. I'm hoping LK Chen makes another Changdao with these measurements, just cause that would be awesome lol.
Yes, I am aware of the 2 meter blade that they use in Korea. It may be possible that Qi Jiguang intends his sword to be that long though I think that it would be necessary to add a long blade collar to it so that the weapon could be controlled more easily.
Yo! Rare to see a Korean interested in Chinese martial arts, glad to see it’s not all animosity :)
You did a really great comprehensive breakdown with this video! I think this is one of your best so far! Please do keep up the great work!
Thanks for the encouraging words! I will keep striving to improve as I go.
Extra long video for an extra long sword. Very cool! Thank you 🙏
Thanks for watching!
Been really looking forward to you covering this type of sword and really appreciate the technique demonstration. I do want to point out though, that swords with a ridged geometry, the Shinogi, and distinct junction point, yokote, and somewhat similar proportions existed in the Tang and earlier. As there are 500 years between then and 1514, there is almost certainly no direct connection between these swords. However, it does mean that swords with such features were not new to China, and they may have been somewhat familiar to the people of the time, perhaps as an "ancient style" of sword, or something. In terms of usage, it's interesting that it focuses so much on beating spears, whereas I have not noticed this fixation in the little odachi material I've seen.
Thanks for watching. You are correct that the shinogi is not new to china. Many tang blades appear to have kiriha zukuri and shinogi was not as common but still existed. Some tang blades also had angular points, but I am not sure about the yokote, because I do not know of any tang blades which are in the original polish and yokote can be created simply by polishing the blade in a different direction at the tip.
During the Song and Yuan dynasty, blades with triangular cross sections (hira zukuri) seem to almost completely takeover. Song blades were also much broader and I suspect this has something to do with this shift. By the time we arrive in the ming, it may be possible that shinogi blades were reintroduced to China via trade with japan, but I am not confident saying that without more research.
Fascinating. I wasn't aware of CHMA (is that a thing ?). Loved how much effort you put in exploring the techniques as closely as possible to the book's descriptions.
I don’t think it is, at least not with weapons since it’s prohibited in China itself
@@chatter4427 I will make a video about this in the future. Although getting sharp swords in China is extremely difficult. HEMA has found quite a bit of success in mainland China and it is changing the way that Chinese people view their own weapon arts.
Sharpened weapon is prohibited in public areas, but purchase of sharpened weapons isn’t prohibited. People use federschwerts and blunt sparring swords in HMA anyways so I don’t know what you are talking about
@@FK-se4hq Yes, I know that blunt weapons are common in China. When it cones to sharp swords, The issue is that many delivery companies do not want to deal with the legal trouble of transporting the swords in public. Many companies, such as LK Chen do not even sell swords in Chiba for this reason. And, once you receive the swords, you have to cut things at a private place like a rooftop or even inside your home which can be a hassle.
wow, I'm studying weaponry for a story I'm planning to write and illustrate, this video and others like it are so helpful, and just dam right interesting, really sparked a passion i didn't know i had
great balance of scholarly background and demonstration of relevant technique.
i wish such a comprehensive approach would be the norm for sword review videos, but as it is i find this outstanding in the field and look forward to more quality content.
Thank you for watching! I am glad that you enjoy the content!
I really appreciate you and your brother for showing the techniques in context. I've seen people do movements like this before, and they just look ridiculous on their own, particularly when spinning.
Thanks for watching! The techniques do make a lot more sense the way they are written in the manual but most of the kung fu world is more about flashiness as opposed to function and historical scholarship.
Hey, really interesting video.
One thing I noticed with a lot of the stances is that one leg is always straight and the other is bent, for example the bow stance, lower insert stance, bury head stance etc.
Yes good observation! I don’t think the front leg in those postures is completely straight but it does look like they are back-weighted with the torso closer to the back foot than the front. I will try this out going forward!
Nice breakdown of the techniques. I dont think Ive seen anyone practise the techniques in such a practical manner before. Great vid!
Thanks for watching! I am looking forward to more of your videos on the Jedok Geom!
so similar to the Miaodao but still identifiable
This sword is like the miaodao’s rough and tumble grandpa.
Great video, Brother! I'll be saving this for reference; great information you've presented here! 🙏
Thanks for letting me borrow the sword!
this was supposed to be my sword.. but i visited my pond.. and meditated. the god of steel told me in my practice to give this to Jeremy. in a way i gave to my sword community cuse this guy gave me alot but jeremy should me the placement ..i love you all i hope i paid it back.
It was extremely generous of you to send the sword for review. I personally can’t thank you enough for how much it has elevated my own understanding of the weapons and I hope that my video here will also help the Chinese martial arts community.
Thank you man
Awesome stuff. I'd also love to see a video on the Miaodao.
Another excellent video with very insightful information, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
this is the only informative video on youtube..... out of 100s of videos i've seen. i only learned from here.
you are special. keep uploading more
Stay tuned! I have a big project underway at the moment that will be exciting to see!
Love greatswords👍🏿🤠👍🏿
Love the history, love the cutting. Keep up the great work SG
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for another amazing review
I have been torn between this and the crossbowmans Dao
I did wonder about the grip and now I will do for the Crosbowmans
Thank you 🙏
Great videos man I especially love this one as I'm zeroing in on my first Nodachi/ miao dao (still debating China or Japan) but this is nonetheless very comprehensive as to the blade I'll be working with. And with your explanation of the king fu forms I do now see it as a bladed staff rather then a thin longsword.
lk chen will love this.. we nailed the chang dao vids.
Do you know what the Five Flowers (五花) techniques are that are mentioned in the Dandao Faxuan? It's used to describe so many techniques, like "Five Flowers Turn" (五花迎轉；五花右／左转身) or "Cut Five Flowers" (砍五花). I can't seem to find an explanation in manual itself.
I did not try to recreate the solo form. In my view, one possible explanation is that the 五花 is some type of flourish with the sword. In many contemporary styles spins with the dao are sometimes called flowers, and, in period sources, flashy forms are usually described as flowery.
Great. Now it seems obvious seeing you do it, but I hadn’t considered that low-line straight arm for the empty hand block for “shoulder dao” before. The single-handed pair of postures look like a simple system within themselves I guess: mid or low stab, use the straight arm to intercept and lift, for a higher one, use a closing forearm, then step in and follow up? If the spear attack aims to your outside, I guess you could change slightly into “single carry,” scoop or wipe to your outside, and either one-hand liao or reposition to thrust? So, like, single hand baiting and attacking to inside and outside? And pointing out grip wrap issues on this is good info, thanks.
Thanks for watching! I had to read the original a few times before I realized what Cheng Zongyou meant exactly by this technique but once I saw it everything fell into place. I definitely think that the “Single Carry” is an option from the “Shoulder the Dao” position. I also think that the “Enter the Cave” stance is another option from here. The single handed liao which you mention has a lot of reach and is very difficult to defend against if the spear is caught.
Yes exactly! I thought if “enter the cave” / “bury head stance” as options from there too, but just left it out of my already long comment. DDFX is simple but really really good.
@@mulli032 Yeah with a good amount of practice I could see it being an interesting challenge for the spearman especially with the daggers too. I am no good at range weapons but I should practice more to make them a viable option.
I havr never said this before, I am astonished by the quality of your content and the criminal underrating of this channel.
Thank you, I still have a lot to work on though. Like uploading more often!
for grip wrap I use 3m tape one two side of the grip and wrap on, additionally LK's wood fitting will shrink over time in drier climate (Canada in my case) so the wrap need to be redone couple time in the first couple years, after that the wood settles
14:33 why those user figures were depicted like monkeys?
Good question! A different version of the Kage ryu scroll just has stick figures, but this version in the Wubeizhi has monkeys. I am not totally sure why but it may be because a two of the three kage ryu techniques listed have monkey in the name. (猿飛 flying ape & 猿回 returning ape)
@@thescholar-general5975 There is a legend attributed to the (Yamamoto) Kage Ryu founder that he had a dream and a monkey deity revealed the secrets of swordsmanship to him. The monkey icons and ape names for techniques are probably a reference to that and it is believed in Shinto that sometimes animals can act as messengers for the gods.
The cousin style of that Kage Ryu, the (Aizu) Kage Ryu, prefers to use tengu 👺in its iconography, so it's not uncommon for Japanese martial arts scrolls to use animals or animal-like beings to describe techniques. Both may be referring in some way to the Shinto deity Sarutahiko Okami who is the leader of the earthly kami, the patron god of martial arts, has a tengu-like face, and is associated with monkeys.
@@JZBai Thanks for the info!
Great video!
Thanks
Thanks for watching!
【按虎刀】接【单撩】做得相当漂亮！ 24:19
谢谢！
Exelent video ❤ thanks for sharing technics
There's some slight errors (of the video, not the content): at 24:05, your static shot and the manual image are changed to 腰砍刀勢, but the text didn't change.
Also, at 24:48 you executed a 背砍刀勢 as a follow-up of 外看刀勢/Outer Watch Stance, but did not provide static shot/manual image for it.
Good catch! I
I definitely missed the text change for the 腰砍刀勢.
The 背砍刀勢 also does follow from the 外看刀勢 and I should have put it in. At the time I just did the whole move as described by the 外看刀勢 which does move you through the whole position of the 背砍刀勢 but doesn’t explicitly mention it.
Later I would like to do another follow up vid to this one with the techniques and then some proper gear and sparring so I will make sure to include it in those ones.
@@thescholar-general5975 Interestingly, while 外看刀勢 does not explicitly mention 背砍刀勢, 背砍刀勢 does mention it starts from 外看刀勢.
this is really cool
Thanks for watching!
Beautiful Sword
I like ur sword display shelf . Im needing something for my swords and cant find anything i like.
I made this one myself. If you want to order one out of solid wood you probably have to get it custom. “Weapon Racks for Martial Arts” on facebook sells them.
Where can I buy one?! 🤩🤩🤩
LK Chen sells them themselves, but in a few months' time, I'm sure online retailers like Kult of Athena will have these in their stateside warehouse as well.
Great stuff! ^^ Love your channel
i'm not sure if it would be possible to do such a deep dive review of l k chen's flying phoenix, if any relevant enough manual even exists for han jian.
be that as it may i would love to see your take on this sword. i'm doing my best to develop a personal practice for it, drawing inspiration from various sources including hema rapier technique to supplement jian forms of later time periods.
I have handled the flying phoenix and it is a very nice blade. Unfortunately we don’t have any surviving manuals from that time period but the bibliography of the Later Han History does reference a text called “the way of the jian” 劍道 but it is no longer extant.
Unfortunately, I do not have a flying phoenix to review but I have reviewed the two other Han jian in my videos on the 8-sided jian and the Jian-Dao transition video.
I also think that it is definitely possible to use rapier techniques with many han jian because of the similarities in blade geometry.
@@thescholar-general5975 thank you for the reply.
Very nice video. Though I have a question, how does this Chang Dao compare to its future counterpart the Miao Dao (let’s say lk chen silver swallow Miao Dao). Also how heavy is it feeling wise for this Chang Dao ? Is that heavy ? Or you can indeed use it one handed for some situation ?
The changdao is much heavier than the miaodao. The miaodao can be used for very quick percussive strikes and can then snap back to a guard position. The changdao requires a lot more build up to use and is meant for warfare and not dueling.
So what are the differences between a changdao and a Zhanmadao?
Great question! Linguistically Changdao just means long dao and zhanmadao means horse-chopping dao. During the Ming period swords like the one shown here were described as changdao or dandao while zhanmadao often referred to glaives or the wide bladed, clipped tip, and long handled dao which are sometimes called pudao today.
I am really curious as to whether records exist for how the weapon was used during it's period of issue and distribution. Are there any ?
We're such swords effective against the enemies for whom they were designed ? Are any books currently available on them. These are fascinating weapons. It would really be a loss if no one during the period had reason to comment on them ! 😮😮
i agree has i do jo training i use in my miao dao training both apply
At 24:58, wouldn't it have been possible for the opponent to counter you just drop the spear, and close the distance while you're mid-spin to either put you in a hold, or if they were armed for a real fight, pull out a knife and stab you in the back?
At 26:40, think it could have been easier if you had a buckler on your off-hand?
Thanks for watching! The key to spinning in is to maintain a bind on the spear for as long as possible before releasing the cut. Of course this is much easier said then done and it can be countered, but just like in unarmed martial arts spinning maneuvers can also work in armed combat if they are set up properly.
As for the buckler in the left hand. It would help keep your hand from getting stabbed, but it would be harder to grab the spear. If you do manage to grab the spear then they are pretty much doomed so this is a high-risk / high-reward technique. Also holding a buckler in the left hand would make it difficult to hold the two handed sword.
Do you know how this dao was carried? I noticed there aren't any belt attachments, so I wonder how those who used this dao carried it around.
Great question! This dao is carried in a sash similar to the japanese obi at least it is shown that way in Cheng Zongyou’s manual. I do not know about Qi Jiguang’s sword.
@@thescholar-general5975 Thanks for the speedy reply! That's very interesting - I almost feel like practicing the dandao is meant for me (seeing that I am a Chinese kendoka lol).
@@junjun_8070 Yes the dandao in many ways is a mixture of both chinese and japanese martial arts and culture.
Hello brother, what about the four routes from Li Shu Wen?, Do You know where this came from?
What was this type of sword really built for ? Infantry ? Cavalry riders ? Other ? Your thoughts if you can shed some light on period and theater or area practical uses ...?
I am not sure about the Japanese context, but in China these large two-handed swords or glaives usually protected the flanks of spearmen. This can be seen in Qi Jiguang’s mandarin duck formation.
@@thescholar-general5975 Thanks for your reply !
@@thescholar-general5975 Thanks !
glad my sword was used for good use
ok why is the handle so long? what for?
@@yoiashi Thanks for watching! The long handle can do a couple things.
1. It adds leverage which can mean it is easier to control the blade and strike with more force.
2. It adds more reach. When using a two handed weapon like a longsword, the hand which grips the bottom of the handle prevents full extension of the top arm. By extending the handle, the bottom hand is further down the grip and thus, the top arm can extend further.
Having a long does have the disadvantage of being a little harder to manipulate around the body. This is particularly true when doing cuts from the left to right.
Great explanation
Thanks for watching!
So where did you get that manual? Is it a reprint for sale?
This manual is a high resolution scan of an original Ming woodblock print. You can download the pdf from this site old.shuge.org/ebook/geng-yu-sheng-ji/
though it may be difficult to navigate if you don't read chinese.
I've been having trouble figuring out the differences between chang dao, wodao, zhanmadao, and liaodao
changdao: long dao (any long dao, usually refers to either a polearm or a two handed saber)
zhanmadao: horse chopping dao (a very large dao, can either refer to polearms, two-handed sabers, or a dao with proportions like a nagamaki)
wodao: Japanese dao (any dao that has a blade design based on japanese swords)
liaodao: Liao dynasty dao (any dao from the Liao period 916-1125 AD)
Many of these definitions can also have some overlap.
@@thescholar-general5975 Thank you!
Are there steel practice versions of this sword? And not some wushu variety either
LK Chen does not make any steel sparring changdao like this. The closest thing would be to look into steel sparring nodachi or miao dao amd see if there is something that works there.
@@thescholar-general5975 could you point me in the direction of those have such offerings please? And how is the quality on those pieces if you know?
@@CallofWar5 I don’t know many I have handled a couple in China that are not bad, but those companies do not ship internationally as far as I am aware. I have heard pretty good things about akado armory though so that might be a good place to check.
Bro has skillz
i do want to send you both my demon blade the tang zhan ma dao
I won’t pressure you either way. But you should know that I will be moving soon to a place far away from Jeremy so I won’t be able to swap blades and shoot videos with him for the foreseeable future. I will talk about this topic on the channel sometime soon.
i sold my demon sword hope the fingers dont fall off
@@thescholar-general5975
nice techniques
*theoretically
Thanks for watching! If you have any comments, questions or critiques of particular techniques, I am happy to hear them.
the blade collar acts just like the Ricassos on later period European swords
Thanks for watching! I think that the tunkou on Qi Jiguang’s blade is quite similar to the ricasso on many zweihander / montante.
右邊那把刀，來介紹
(看影片視角)
謝謝你的看觀！你應該是說那把宋斬馬刀吧？馬上會有視頻討論它
@@thescholar-general5975 有沒有陌刀
@@thescholar-general5975 是觀看
@@thescholar-general5975 對
@@龍魂兔子 可昔沒有，未來會講陌刀
Great video; very interesting.
Maybe you know already, but the style Wan Sheng Quan has a Miao Dao routine that still includes the flying knife technique. I don't know if it's a direct descendant of the technique from the manual, but it seems like it would be a big coincidence if it wasn't. You can see it here.. th-cam.com/video/Qi2Y8lmK3EE/w-d-xo.html
I did not know about this form, very cool stuff! Thanks for sharing!
能不能介绍宋手刀，来自中国
他有宋手刀的视频
26:22 Hello my friend. I am also a 长刀 player. I understand your difficulties on switching Right Liao to Left Liao. So when doing the Left Liao, it would need you to “pull back” the handle with your left hand while using the waist & back muscles to turning your body. This explanation said from the Miaodao master 郭桂德 from Cangzhou, China. I hope this could help you 🙏
th-cam.com/users/shortsdfGZH-XUbyA?si=RRAwY1RM2kgBBCkX This how he demonstrates Liaodao technique
Thanks for the insights!
@@thescholar-general5975My pleasure !!!
know the demon blade may cut you, its evil
caution is always advised when handling sharp weapons. Especially demon ones!
Very nice, I can't believe I am learning this from a white guy.
“Not exactly 12 inches.” Trust him. He would know 😉. Where do you find these goons to beat up lol?
I am always on the lookout for more goons. Let me know if you know any 😅
It could just be a Miao Dao
Thanks for watching! I would be hesitant to call this sword a Miao Dao for a few reasons. Miao Dao are usually not this long and heavy. They are mostly a 20th century two-handed saber with a pipe-back blade that is very light and agile. This blade feels quite a bit different from that.
HI MR, SEELEY I don’t like then new teacher we have can u come back PLSSSSS 😢
Hey mr seely
Oh btw mr, seeley I like Korea better
Miao Dao was invented during the Ming Dynasty in China to counter the Japanese samurai sword.
@@TopCityCN There are no historical sources which use the term Miao Dao 苗刀 until the 20th century. Historical sources from the Ming period all unequivocally state that this weapon design was imported from Japan.
@@thescholar-general5975 During the Ming Dynasty, the Jiangsu and Zhejiang regions were invaded by Japanese pirates. The swords of the Ming army at that time were shorter than the Japanese samurai swords, which put them at a great disadvantage in fighting against the Japanese samurai. The original name of the Miao Dao was the Imperial Guard Sword, which was a two-handed long sword modified by Qi Jiguang based on the Japanese sword. The appearance of the sword is very similar to the Japanese sword, but the handle and blade thickness are slightly different.
@@TopCityCN Qi Jiguang clearly states that the changdao 長刀 design is stems from encounters with the wokou who were using Japanese swords.
Whether or not it counts as a totally independent sword after it is made in China is largely semantic and not really detracting from the claims I made in the video. I am aware that there are some differences between Japan and China preferred in terms of tip grind (yokote or not), handle wrap (diamonds over ray skin or not), and grip attachment (peened or not). I mentioned these differences in the video, but it does not change the fact that the Ming adopted this design from Japanese swords.
@@thescholar-general5975 In fact, China and Japan have learned from each other for thousands of years and imitated and improved each other's sword prototypes.
@@thescholar-general5975 If you look at Korean swords, you'll see that they're more like a mix of Chinese and Japanese weapons.