This is the exact video I've been waiting for since I subscribed, glad to see you covering this manual and recreating the form! You definitely should give yourself more credit for how faithfully you've stuck to the text. I've tried to recreate the form myself in the past, but I was never quite satisfied with how I did it, and no longer have access to a guandao that I can play with. A couple of points that came to mind while I was watching: - 五花 I believe may have been a phonetic mutation from 舞花 which is more common in the modern day, but then it is a bit of a chicken or the egg question. I personally interpret the latter as the original meaning as most flourishes doesn't really draw much of a five-petalled shape one would expect from a plum blossom, and I feel like 舞 captures the dynamic flowing movement of the flourish in its meaning a lot better. - 翻身 in Ming Dynasty texts generally refer to some sort of 180 degree turn in my experience, be it pivoting on the spot to quickly face an opponent behind you, pivoting after having taken a stealing step, or jumping/doing a quick triangle step to change the side which you face the same opponent with. 360 degree spins would sometimes be written as 滾身 instead as seen in Qi Jiguang's rattan shield techniques; however this manual appears to prefer 漫頭五花轉身 or simply just 轉身 as seen at the end of the form, which is confusing as 轉 on its own appears to imply any turn lesser than 180 degrees. From this, I personally would not interpret the 翻身 done at the start of the form as a jumping 360 turn, but rather a pivot to face the next direction the form wants you to move in, as the form diagram does not appear to depict a spin at that point of the form. - 剪步 appears frequently for other weapons as well and appears to be some sort of skipping passing step, used to rapidly close or create distance. One essentially leaps off the foot closest to the direction of travel while the other leg is thrown in front of it with momentum, hence causing the legs to cross and uncross over one another like a pair of shears, thus giving this footwork its name. - From what I can tell the text in the form diagram corresponding to 鳳凰展翅勢 was 展翅勢, and the missing character between 勾砍上右步 and 左步 is 偷. That end text on the diagram is genuinely unreadable and I have sacrificed many a brain cell in the past trying to read it. Thank you again for producing great, high quality content, and I look forward to the next one!
Thanks so much! I was not expecting such helpful feedback so soon! I will definitely revisit the form with the suggestions you have given. In particular, I was hesitant at first to interpret 翻身 as I do in the recording, and I will definitely go back to explore this. 轉 is so tricky because there are so many different ways you could turn/rotate; I had hoped to find some kind of consistency in terms of rotating horizontally (parallel to the ground) vs. vertically (perpendicular to the ground), but I can’t come up with anything I am happy with. For 五花, it would certainly make sense for 五 to have been substituted for 舞. After all, “dancing flower/twirl” makes more sense than “plum blossom,” and 舞 is a pain to write out, especially in small text. There are a couple of small points that give me slight pause. My tradition does use 五花 a couple of times in the 拳譜, and in other postures within my tradition, 五花 a is used to meaningfully refer to a plum blossom (we have a 五花鉤手 in which you put all five fingers together like a flower blossom-may just be dojo lore, but it could be something). Also, 五and 舞 had different pronunciations in 近代音-it seems likely they could have been homophones by the late-Ming, but I’d be more confident if I could find a Ming text that uses 舞花 (but again 舞 is a pain to write, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it is never used, even if it is the intended meaning). I suppose in either case, the meaning doesn’t really help much in understanding the movement, but “dancing” makes more sense. I like to keep the “plum blossom” interpretation open for now in case I see connection later on. Glad to hear you have tried to recreate the form! I know that others have attempted as well, but I was somewhat surprised not to find any other videos online that show it. Hopefully more people will give it a go. Thanks again, and glad you enjoyed the video. If you don’t have a Guandao to play with, I recommend a broom ;)
@@thescholar-general5975 it is not, but giving it a taper is one of my next projects. I'm curious to compare have more mass in the center vs. having more mass at the ends.
@@thescholar-general5975 in the Q&A section of the Shaolin text, I think it says that wooden staves are tapered base to tip, but iron staves are tapered at both ends.
@@thescholar-general5975 actually, I just went back and checked, and I’m not sure there was a difference in tapering between wood/iron staffs. It says 兩頭細於腰者，但便於陰手耳. This is right after the iron staff description, which is why I assumed it was about iron staffs, but now I’m thinking it’s probably just talking about tapering any staff at both ends, not specifically iron staves. Guess I need to get this straight before I break out my grinder…
I made a video interpreting this form when i first started. I plan on making more with more of my findings. But i think this manual was about destroying wokou. Using these techniques against a spear with the left hand forwards works surprisingly well after drilling it with other fellas. But there is definitely a lot of performance in this form because its supposed to get one ready for horseback
@@GuandaoGuy man there's a funny way to strike from that position that's pretty scary. As the saber is held behind the back, put the hand out and bait. As they come in, raise the saber higher behind the back and grab the shaft with the left hand retreat as the left hand comes down. I've seen another guy use it on TH-cam who spars with the guan dao with heavy sparring gear.
I have two favorite weapons, the Great Sword or Shuang Shou Jian and the Guandao. I mention this because I thought you would find that interesting. I really appreciate your videos immensely, they really have helped me deepen my understanding of the Guandao. Again, another interesting bit, I cobbled mine together. Kris Kutlery had a beautiful if narrow blade and i used a Greek Butt Cap. I botched the metal sheath and cup(?)and I am still trying to make it nicer. About 10-11# and sharp.
@ yes weight… I think my blade could be beefier it’s spring steel forged from ww2 jeep springs and its not wushu but it needs to have more lateral support in cross section, it’s bent on me when hitting a hey bale( I know it’s not a tatami Matt setup but still)
@ well I’m a 30 year Bak Si Lum Lineage guy, I have my own school, trained consistently and train HEMA great sword every day that weights 7 lbs and is 60” tall, I’m 5’10 at 170, I train sharp real weapons only and I know 12 Kung Fu weapons…i can’t imagine wielding effectively anything in a fight over 15 lbs for extended lengths of time
I'm wondering about the "throwing the blade" stance. Do you think it could be a handling exercise to get used to the balance of the weapon? If the text is for trainees new to the Guandao that might make sense. I'm also wondering about the "greeting/meeting the enemy" stance. How do you think Guandao were usually carried? Would it be similar at all to that stance? Maybe the stance is a stylised version of a carrying position, or is a posture you might move to immediately from a carrying position. In several European fencing texts, the first stance or guard described is similar to either a sheathed-sword position (held at the lower left, ready for a rising diagonal cut) or a position where the sword would be immediately after drawing (high on the right, ready for a descending thrust).
Interesting! I suppose that could be a function of the "throwing the blade" stance. Personally, I do not think that is the intended function. By many accounts, Guandao practice was impressive looking, and I think that performativity was desirable to practitioners. I think this move is mostly for looks, and I think other moves in the form are as well (wrapping the weapon around the waist for example).
@@xerkules2851 with “greeting the enemy,” I don’t think it’s especially comfortable to carry that way, unless you you hold the butt end with your left hand (in which case, you can actually drop you right hand, and it’s totally comfortable). I’ve never seen that depicted anywhere, though; usually I see it carried in front of the body with two hands, or in the front resting on the shoulder like a rifle. I think holding it in one hand at the point of balance, parallel to the ground is pretty natural and comfortable.
This is the exact video I've been waiting for since I subscribed, glad to see you covering this manual and recreating the form! You definitely should give yourself more credit for how faithfully you've stuck to the text. I've tried to recreate the form myself in the past, but I was never quite satisfied with how I did it, and no longer have access to a guandao that I can play with. A couple of points that came to mind while I was watching:
- 五花 I believe may have been a phonetic mutation from 舞花 which is more common in the modern day, but then it is a bit of a chicken or the egg question. I personally interpret the latter as the original meaning as most flourishes doesn't really draw much of a five-petalled shape one would expect from a plum blossom, and I feel like 舞 captures the dynamic flowing movement of the flourish in its meaning a lot better.
- 翻身 in Ming Dynasty texts generally refer to some sort of 180 degree turn in my experience, be it pivoting on the spot to quickly face an opponent behind you, pivoting after having taken a stealing step, or jumping/doing a quick triangle step to change the side which you face the same opponent with.
360 degree spins would sometimes be written as 滾身 instead as seen in Qi Jiguang's rattan shield techniques; however this manual appears to prefer 漫頭五花轉身 or simply just 轉身 as seen at the end of the form, which is confusing as 轉 on its own appears to imply any turn lesser than 180 degrees. From this, I personally would not interpret the 翻身 done at the start of the form as a jumping 360 turn, but rather a pivot to face the next direction the form wants you to move in, as the form diagram does not appear to depict a spin at that point of the form.
- 剪步 appears frequently for other weapons as well and appears to be some sort of skipping passing step, used to rapidly close or create distance. One essentially leaps off the foot closest to the direction of travel while the other leg is thrown in front of it with momentum, hence causing the legs to cross and uncross over one another like a pair of shears, thus giving this footwork its name.
- From what I can tell the text in the form diagram corresponding to 鳳凰展翅勢 was 展翅勢, and the missing character between 勾砍上右步 and 左步 is 偷. That end text on the diagram is genuinely unreadable and I have sacrificed many a brain cell in the past trying to read it.
Thank you again for producing great, high quality content, and I look forward to the next one!
Thanks so much! I was not expecting such helpful feedback so soon! I will definitely revisit the form with the suggestions you have given. In particular, I was hesitant at first to interpret 翻身 as I do in the recording, and I will definitely go back to explore this. 轉 is so tricky because there are so many different ways you could turn/rotate; I had hoped to find some kind of consistency in terms of rotating horizontally (parallel to the ground) vs. vertically (perpendicular to the ground), but I can’t come up with anything I am happy with.
For 五花, it would certainly make sense for 五 to have been substituted for 舞. After all, “dancing flower/twirl” makes more sense than “plum blossom,” and 舞 is a pain to write out, especially in small text. There are a couple of small points that give me slight pause. My tradition does use 五花 a couple of times in the 拳譜, and in other postures within my tradition, 五花 a is used to meaningfully refer to a plum blossom (we have a 五花鉤手 in which you put all five fingers together like a flower blossom-may just be dojo lore, but it could be something). Also, 五and 舞 had different pronunciations in 近代音-it seems likely they could have been homophones by the late-Ming, but I’d be more confident if I could find a Ming text that uses 舞花 (but again 舞 is a pain to write, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it is never used, even if it is the intended meaning). I suppose in either case, the meaning doesn’t really help much in understanding the movement, but “dancing” makes more sense. I like to keep the “plum blossom” interpretation open for now in case I see connection later on.
Glad to hear you have tried to recreate the form! I know that others have attempted as well, but I was somewhat surprised not to find any other videos online that show it. Hopefully more people will give it a go.
Thanks again, and glad you enjoyed the video. If you don’t have a Guandao to play with, I recommend a broom ;)
Thank you for the videos!
Amazing work! I have also wondered about the weight of the iron staff and how a heavy rod might handle. Is yours tapered?
@@thescholar-general5975 it is not, but giving it a taper is one of my next projects. I'm curious to compare have more mass in the center vs. having more mass at the ends.
@ I think that Cheng Zongyou’s tapered from the base to the tip, that way the tip may be way more maneuverable.
@@thescholar-general5975 in the Q&A section of the Shaolin text, I think it says that wooden staves are tapered base to tip, but iron staves are tapered at both ends.
@@thescholar-general5975 actually, I just went back and checked, and I’m not sure there was a difference in tapering between wood/iron staffs. It says 兩頭細於腰者，但便於陰手耳. This is right after the iron staff description, which is why I assumed it was about iron staffs, but now I’m thinking it’s probably just talking about tapering any staff at both ends, not specifically iron staves. Guess I need to get this straight before I break out my grinder…
I made a video interpreting this form when i first started. I plan on making more with more of my findings. But i think this manual was about destroying wokou. Using these techniques against a spear with the left hand forwards works surprisingly well after drilling it with other fellas. But there is definitely a lot of performance in this form because its supposed to get one ready for horseback
Great video btw brother. Love your stuff
Thanks! And very good to know that you found the so-called "single carry stance" useful against spear.
@@GuandaoGuy man there's a funny way to strike from that position that's pretty scary. As the saber is held behind the back, put the hand out and bait. As they come in, raise the saber higher behind the back and grab the shaft with the left hand retreat as the left hand comes down. I've seen another guy use it on TH-cam who spars with the guan dao with heavy sparring gear.
Interesting. I would like to see that!
@@GuandaoGuy I'll send the vid on the Chinese swordsmanship discord
I have two favorite weapons, the Great Sword or Shuang Shou Jian and the Guandao. I mention this because I thought you would find that interesting. I really appreciate your videos immensely, they really have helped me deepen my understanding of the Guandao. Again, another interesting bit, I cobbled mine together. Kris Kutlery had a beautiful if narrow blade and i used a Greek Butt Cap. I botched the metal sheath and cup(?)and I am still trying to make it nicer. About 10-11# and sharp.
Awesome! I really think that creating your own is the way to go, given what is available on the market. What is “10-11#”? Weight?
@ yes weight… I think my blade could be beefier it’s spring steel forged from ww2 jeep springs and its not wushu but it needs to have more lateral support in cross section, it’s bent on me when hitting a hey bale( I know it’s not a tatami Matt setup but still)
Cool! 10-11 lbs is substantial. What do you think of the weights given in Wubei Yaolve? 13-26? Do you think it is viable or an exaggeration?
@ well I’m a 30 year Bak Si Lum Lineage guy, I have my own school, trained consistently and train HEMA great sword every day that weights 7 lbs and is 60” tall, I’m 5’10 at 170, I train sharp real weapons only and I know 12 Kung Fu weapons…i can’t imagine wielding effectively anything in a fight over 15 lbs for extended lengths of time
Maybe if the base is weighted more? But double my weight… dude that’s a lot
I'm wondering about the "throwing the blade" stance. Do you think it could be a handling exercise to get used to the balance of the weapon? If the text is for trainees new to the Guandao that might make sense.
I'm also wondering about the "greeting/meeting the enemy" stance. How do you think Guandao were usually carried? Would it be similar at all to that stance? Maybe the stance is a stylised version of a carrying position, or is a posture you might move to immediately from a carrying position. In several European fencing texts, the first stance or guard described is similar to either a sheathed-sword position (held at the lower left, ready for a rising diagonal cut) or a position where the sword would be immediately after drawing (high on the right, ready for a descending thrust).
Interesting! I suppose that could be a function of the "throwing the blade" stance. Personally, I do not think that is the intended function. By many accounts, Guandao practice was impressive looking, and I think that performativity was desirable to practitioners. I think this move is mostly for looks, and I think other moves in the form are as well (wrapping the weapon around the waist for example).
@@xerkules2851 with “greeting the enemy,” I don’t think it’s especially comfortable to carry that way, unless you you hold the butt end with your left hand (in which case, you can actually drop you right hand, and it’s totally comfortable). I’ve never seen that depicted anywhere, though; usually I see it carried in front of the body with two hands, or in the front resting on the shoulder like a rifle. I think holding it in one hand at the point of balance, parallel to the ground is pretty natural and comfortable.
@@GuandaoGuy Thanks for your thoughts! I've found the whole series really interesting and enjoyable.