Beautifully said. I’ve always been skeptical about this topic as a Christian artist myself, but I’ve always been too afraid to fully question it because of the religious attachments and being seen as too judgmental. I feel a lot more comfortable on my stance after watching this video. Thank you. 🙏
👏👏👏 JP2GiannaT, YES!!!! When I do a live lecture I often make that point, but forgot to include that. Thank you. Lately, I'm sick of going to museums or theaters to end up with propaganda in my face "preaching at me" instead of art, inviting me into a conversation.. or inviting me to take time for contemplation.
This is exactly what I'm doing through Animation Ministry! I believe in showing Bible stories without sanitizing them to stir the hearts and minds of people. I've made a couple concept trailers to show what I mean, and one of them is about Samson!
Perfect! Samson was strong, handsome and a mess! When we portray him with honesty and authenticity, it can be freeing and encouraging --- audience members and fans can begin to realize, maybe God can even use someone as messed up as me.
This video got me thinking. One reason we have bad quality christian art is we don't develop our skills and we shy away from pursuing excellence. I am now wondering if my art is too sanitized. I paint scripture stories but I could be still in the sanitized area. Prayerfully re-evaluating.
Exactly. Excellence should always be a given for believers. King David said, "I will not offer to God that which cost me nothing." If we Love God with all our heart and our work is really an act of worship, then our art should always be done with excellence. Anything less is a bad witness, and a failure to fully honor God by giving him our best. You are on the right track .
The point you made on people outside of the christian context not relating to a lot of what is called "christian art" is so true. I find that as soon as my music, design or even conversations becomes superficial, perhaps from the fear of making a mistake, it looses relatability and power. There might be a larger "fear of doing something wrong" within the christian community and therefore also less creative exploration. This video gave me more perspective on the topic. Thank you!
I liked that you talked about this as it doesn’t seem to get talked about. In my experience Christian art seems to always have to be more like illustration, calling it prophetic art. My art is abstract so I can’t seem to relate to all the other artists painting lions. It feels sad to feel I can relate more to the enthusiasm and inventiveness of artists that aren’t Christians.
Jacqui, great point! Part of the simplistic nature of so much "Christian Art" is that it is reduced to literal items from the Bible, even if they are also symbolic (Lions, Lambs, etc.) They are merely illustrating something already given to us, rather than creating a new parable or visual language to speak afresh to the audience of today. Good news! There are many Christians who are involved in more abstract art. Signup for our newsletter to find ways to get connected. Are you here in Los Angeles?
I am a prophetic artist and I sometimes paint based on visions and dreams and sometimes they are brand new syboIisms and sometimes they are simple. I also write a lot alongside my paintings. I really would Ike to understand. I have painted abstract but my problem with abstract is that people nowadays just throw paint and sell it for thousands. There is absolutely no intention or meaning behind a piece and its called abstract. I know there are people who create meaningful abstract but in the sea of random chaos, stading out as a meaningful abstract painting that causes people to think is rare. God created with intention. Shouldn't we too? If art is meant to cause people to think, without being preachy, how can we best represent God's love for the world? Should it be 100% abstract and be similar to most mainstream abstract art or can it symbolism and stories that we are used to with our own creative spin to it?
@@sukisfineart Great points and questions. Your desire to communicate through your art is wonderful, and it is great to hear that you want to make art that is not preachy, but also not void of content. What artists inspire you? Maybe consider improvising or choosing a new style that has abstract influences, but incorporates symbols, texts, or color in a way that tells a story. You are not restricted to one type of art, naturally. What artists do you want to have an artistic conversation with through your art? Rothko, De Kooning, O'Keefe? consider your art as a response or engagement with their work... but use new ideas and tools to speak a new artistic language maybe...
I feel your pain at the relating more to the enthusiasm of non Christian artists. I want to enjoy Christian art and be on the intent on what Christians want, but honestly I don't want watered down stories just to tell a Gospel. Not that I don't want the good news to come out, but that there is SO much more that Christians can do to be creative but don't know how to without it feeling demonic or just have less creative Christians. Whatever the case, I want to be that creative Child of God that knows how to execute a story well without it feeling watered down and unique!
My parents wanted to get me to watch this one Christian show. I didn't want to, as I thought it would be yet another on the pile of stories with good morals but were uninteresting otherwise. Adding to that, I thought the intense looking man on the cover of the DVD case was Jesus, and thought they wouldn't portray Him right. I was wrong about all of these. That wasn't Jesus, that was Simon Peter. This wasn't just another show, it was the Chosen. It wasn't sanitized, but it wasn't overcome by darkness. It was great and probably the best show I've seen.
Yeah, Dallas has done a wonderful job of making the characters relatable and believable. It is such a great improvement over so many other productions.
This was a great encouragement! As an illustrator and storyteller - I've been wrestling with these thoughts for years!... I'm aiming always to make Good God honoring art - And that means it needs to be good...
👏 So True. Predictable art fails to invite us to see something new about God's word or Christianity. Such art isn't a conversation. God didn't give us creativity to simply cut and paste. If God chose to 'cut and paste' we would never have a narwhal, a platypus, etc. God's creativity never ends, and his invitation to us is to keep developing our creativity and ability to express anew something about His creation, His love, and His grace.
This is because people don't receive revelation; they either don't believe in new revelation, have been taught the same basic stuff for years and years, or they don't seek to know the depths of God. It's astounding how many Christians prefer to remain shallow.
Thank you! Good art of all kinds, but especially Christian(/religious) art, should reflect the "four fold method" used in sermons, with literal, symbolic/allegorical, moral and anagogical (pointing to the ultimate goal of individual and all lives) levels. It should also reflect the connection between Truth and Beauty, as do Renaissance paintings - even those depicting great cruelty and suffering. You nailed it when you noted that this is very difficult today - especially with a religiously ignorant population (How often do you say, "I don't believe in the God you don't believe in"?) and unwilling audiences. Good new art could be an important key to unlocking the problem.
i'm an ambitious Christion writer and I'm making a Christion manga series for everyone to enjoy and pray to God to make it really good. and not making it judgmental or bad or anything bad
It may be that what we produce has become too simple and skims the surface. Almost as if we are creating works for the global church members alone , a huge Sunday school lesson for those in the know and not creating with our Father for the world to see and question. The Bible is rich in accounts where you don't see the events coming.The exact types of ups and downs, twists and turns are not everyday routines, let alone some of the Endings. Did anyone think Yael would tent peg a guys forehead the first time they read it? Yet in Christian films I know the plot will be about overcoming Drugs, adultery, a tough home life and then joining a church family. Sometimes we don't actually focus on exactly how Jesus saved the person and skip to the protagonist going to church on Sundays after being saved somehow. Maybe as creatives we need to be more vulnerable with the journey of living this life we have, more bold in realising and communicating we are still in this world but not of it. Myself included. For the first time, I'm reading fantasy novels written by Christians. I was surprised when I realised these worlds they create don't hold back on showing the cruelness of the 'humanity ' the compassion and confusion of some charcaters, the fear of the present and future, longing for the past and promise, the supernatural and that it won't always be this way. It's a step in the right direction.
🤔 🙈🙉🙊 - Ah, yes. The Sunday school illustration obsession! Great points! You are right - The Bible is surprising every time we read it. If our art is not surprising we lose something profound and precious in the process. ...and yes, we need to be more honest and vulnerable about our own imperfections and need for God's grace. Great to hear about fantasy written by Christians. That market is enormous, and we need good writers in that market. Blessings....
In my opinion our Catholic brothers and sisters are stronger in this area than we Protestants . Listening to Bishop Barron or Brian Holdsworth talking about the argument from beauty for example, and encouraging Christians to portray it in their art
Yes, Bishop Barron is great! And yes, the Catholic thinkers have been the key voices for a theology of beauty in the last century. Von Balthasar and Von Hildebrand are essential in this pursuit. (Incidentally, I am writing a book on a theology of beauty,.... I believe the church deeply needs it today). So I'm on the same page with you.
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries I`ll watch out for that, for sure. My own work is on Vimeo under "Alpine Wonders". On youtube I really only have a time lapse video plugging The Narrow Path radio programme by Steve Gregg. The quote from him should probably be vocalised rather than just text. Maybe one day. He would see the strength of the apologetic for beauty too, hence why he embedded my video on his homepage. I feel utterly humbled, kind of unworthy. I admire him almost too much perhaps
My big problem with Christian romance novels (and for a while they were all romance it seemed) is that the happy endings were never earned. The conflict was usually external and solved by coincidence which allowed the writer to get away with minimal character development. I believe badly written romance novels have warped women in their expectations and ability to navigate real life marriages (or their failure to get married.)
My specialty is writing. For a while I wouldn't read anything written by Christians since the 1960's except for nonfiction. The ABA could not do fiction or poetry decently it seemed.
Rachel, this is quite interesting. I am not a reader of Christian romance novels, nor non-Christian romance novels. So I don't have any expertise there, but it is interesting to note what you are saying. As you describe it, the Christian romance novels seem to employ a form of _deus ex machina_ to solve the romantic tension and allow for oneness and intimacy. If this is true, it is poor character development, a poor story arc, and a poor model for the reader...which you state. This reminds me of my brother-in-law. His daughters went to a Christian College, and boys who were interested in them would couch their romantic interest in a spiritual language like, "I feel like God wants me to marry you." This was bothersome to my brother-in-law, as it should be! This is failing to own their own desire and attraction. They need to be honest and say, "I'm attracted to you, and want to know more about you, and see if there is a future for us together as a couple" but they hide their motives (or don't even understand their motives) and masquerade the whole thing in spiritually vague sentiments. That is what your comments remind me of...
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries fiction is not just about entertainment. It can help us understand and love the people around us better as well as understanding our own motivations. But only if properly written. Jane Austen understood human nature. So did Charles Dickens, Leo Tolstoy, Charlotte Bronte, Dostoyevsky, and Shakespeare. Reading them can help us in loving our fellow man.
@@RachelNichols-writerOf course! Have you read any of Vigen Gurioan's books? He does a great job with that subject. Fiction can be even more potent than non-fiction as it inspires and even moves past the "watchful dragons" that Lewis and Tolkien talked about.
Thanks so much for your explanations. I have strayed away for years, now I listen to you every morning. I think art in the rebirth by the Catholic Church was really really good. Unfortunately they started to sanitize the works and excommunicated artists who wanted to be authentic. The church no longer values art the way it was in ancient times and it's really unfortunate. A lot of Christian talent is getting wasted
We definitely need more nuance in our understanding of art, as a Christian community, and we need new artists who are creating great art that fits a biblical worldview. And...Hopefully we can be a part of that change.
Less of a shot, hopefully more ofva valid point- Part of the reason "Christian" art got the way it did is the creators, which is absolutely true. The other half of the problem is the audience. Many of the Christians who could partake of the better more complex Christian art either won't challenge themselves or don't have a derp enough nuanced faith to handle complicated stuff or worst of all, just choose the safe, nonconfrontational, cookie cutter because it's what they like and don't want to be challenged. Depending on one's relationship with God will dictate the type of art and willingness of the person to test their boundaries. Last year, 2023, was a big deal for Christian film (in my opinion) because throughout the whole year multiple studios were releasing many kinds of Christian nuanced projects. Almost all of the made money and almost all of them spent at least 1 week in the weekend's top grossing movie. And that trend is continuing in 2024.
I agree with what you wrote here: "Depending on one's relationship with God will dictate the type of art and willingness of the person to test their boundaries." I also agree it is both a creator problem and an audience problem. For me, this means it is a theological problem coming through seminaries, pulpits, Christian publishers, etc. 2 core issues: Fundamentalism from Baptists, and an overstrict approach to the arts from Presbyterians.
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries Also, don't underestimate the average humans desire to avoid uncomfortable ideas and emotions. The default opinion for a lot of people is complex emotions are "bad" and new ideas are "weird" I recently watched the movie Wildcat. It is a super arty biopic about the 1950's- early '60's writer Flannery O'Connor. I loved it so much I saw it twice in one week at a theater I don't normally go to. It is pulpy, raw and asks really good questions about God, Jesus and our relationship with him and the people around us. But it definitely is not for everyone, as it doesn't close all the boxes and tie up all the loose ends. There are two moments in the movie where the put some definition around what God is. First, she says that God is not an electric blanket. In a later scene in the movie, she says God is not an insurance policy. Unfortunately, I think many Christians see their relationship with God like that. And if that is the depth your faith, you won't challenge that relationship with God. Which is why a lot of the Christian stuff can be so flat and shallow.
I’m an artist and it’s impossible to create one piece of art that hits on every single point mentioned here The world is broken and Art will reflect this world but God is going to create a new world
I'm confused by your comment...I am arguing agains the idea that all art created by Christians must be sanitized or sentimental. To be clear - you are free to make art that is comforting and therapeutic - that would align with a more priestly office of Christ (as opposed to the Kingly or Prophetic.) The problem is when we require all art to be therapeutic, sanitized, etc. That is not a biblical principle. ...and by the way...Christians who think all art must be therapeutic are the reason the mainstream art world sees all "Christian art" as disconnected with the brokenness of the world. ...and in response to your core statement - This video is not meant to be used to make a work of art with all the points. The point is that rigid definitions of "Christian art" are limiting and unhelpful.
James 3 - (paraphrase) Do not desire to become a teacher, because teachers will receive greater punishment (if they teach falsely). Lest your viewers perceive this as permission to do as you please as long as it's considered "art." 1. The story of Samson (and other such examples) isn't so much graphic as it is descriptive. How did they gouge out his eyes? With a hot poker? with their fingers? With a knife? Even asking these questions makes my post far more graphic than the Bible. So, yes, the Bible describes some pretty violent scenes. It tells us of adulterous relationships, even orgies, and rape, but gives no detail. It simply tells us that it happened. It doesn't go into gory/sensual details of the events. The Bible is clear that we are not to present stumbling blocks or offenses before each other. You can include these elements without being profane or vulgar. 2. There is a difference between describing historical events and inventing titillating fictional events. Consider the difference between a camera catching a moment of accidental immodesty because of posture of an actress, and drawing a cartoon with the same level of immodesty. The first simply happens, and the camera "caught it." The second involves a series of choices that put the female in this compromising position. The only fictional events found in the Bible are the parables of Jesus. In none of His parables did Jesus delve into depraved subjects just to make a point. His parables are, by design, very simplistic. They have one simple lesson to teach. Very few of them provide the nuance and grit that is described in this video. Even the two mostly lengthy and detailed parables (The Good Samaritan and The Prodigal Son) don't gratify any fleshly desires to read about violence or debauchery. The man in the Good Samaritan simply "Fell among thieves." and the Prodigal Son spent all he had on "riotous living." 3. The only art form mentioned in the Bible is *music. We have no biblical reference for how to judge other specific art forms. God has much to say about music. Most notably in 1 Colossians 3:16 - "Teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs." Music is directly tied to teaching. Teaching what? The first part of the verse tells us - "The word of Christ." To say that music (and by extension, other art forms) is not for teaching is to defy what God has revealed. *I suppose poetry and metaphor could be considered forms of literary art. Both are employed in scripture providing examples, but no directives regarding their use. And I agree that deeper, metaphorical language that makes you think is a good thing. Some of scripture is this way, and other places it is extremely simplistic. 4. "Art is meant to bring out nuance and depth and push you to think differently and challenge you." according to whom? The Bible? The secular world? Historically, before the modern era, Art was used to reflect God's creation and His Word. Your description of art is the post-modern, anti-God definition. Why should we accept the world's definitions? The biblical meaning for art is described in what you quoted: Declare the glory of God.
Well, yes, ...James 3. I take that very seriously. but then you write - Lest your viewers perceive this as permission to do as you please as long as it's considered "art." I didn't say that, and wouldn't. Please consider that I can't say everything in each video. First you mention: 1. The story of Samson (and other such examples) isn't so much graphic as it is descriptive. Agreed. Then you state: 2. There is a difference between describing historical events and inventing titillating fictional events. Agreed. We are never supposed to be licentious or gratuitous. We have said this in countless ways for many years. please check out this video to get more of our content related to evil, and being prudent in what we depict: th-cam.com/video/0Y_dTMUqbnk/w-d-xo.html and you write about Jesus' parables not being explicit. True. Then you make a claim that is simply not true: - The only art form mentioned in the Bible is *music. please see: th-cam.com/video/IpMtStLa3Ng/w-d-xo.html There is so much art in the Bible. Francis Schaeffer pointed this out decades ago, but most churches do not look for this, much less consider the ramifications. We have no biblical reference for how to judge other specific art forms. God has much to say about music. Most notably in 1 Colossians 3:16 - "Teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs." Music is directly tied to teaching. No. that does not mean all music is directly tied to teaching. go to the Psalms...we have psalms of mourning, thanksgiving, repentance, etc. Colossians is not defining music, it is the verse read, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." let the word of God dwell in you richly as you do these things: 1 "Teaching and admonishing" is the first category 2 "Singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" is the second category. one is not defining the other. To be honest, The Greek does not warrant your translation. then you write: *I suppose poetry and metaphor could be considered forms of literary art. YES. again, see our video on art in the Bible. th-cam.com/video/IpMtStLa3Ng/w-d-xo.html LASTLY, 4. "Art is meant to bring out nuance and depth and push you to think differently and challenge you." according to whom? The Bible? The secular world? According to the very nature of art, which is a form of communication, and expression. According to the way we create and the way people respond to art. Think of it this way: Bad art has no nuance. Good art does - it draws you in... this is a primary concept in appreciating all kinds of art. then you write: Historically, before the modern era, Art was used to reflect God's creation and His Word. Your description of art is the post-modern, anti-God definition. No. that is simply not true. There was orgiastic, pagan, atrocious art from the beginning of civilization - just look at Ancient Near Eastern history and archaeology: Idolatry and pagan art abounded. Even early operas were very sexual and pagan in Italy. Art was not purely reflecting God's creation except in the modern era. Then you write: Why should we accept the world's definitions? The biblical meaning for art is described in what you quoted: Declare the glory of God. again, No. That is not a definition of art. Art is simply a form of communication. Christians should emulate God's communication, and honor God with their gifts. non-Christians will not. God's creation does declare His Glory. but God also communicates through poetry, etc. and God rebukes, warns, loves, persuades, etc. etc. God does not communicate with one approach. again..see the video on art in the Bible, please.
"If your artwork is all about teaching then it's propaganda. It's not art. Don't confuse the two." I'm imagining Elmo in a Nazi uniform explaining with a catchy song and expertly crafted scenery that it's patriotic to learn the alphabet, and only traitors reject learning. I get the points trying to be made, the way they're presented makes me want to reject them all.
your example brings more confusion than clarity to the issue. How do you then define propaganda? How do you then define art? what kind of art do you create?
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries I'm super impressed you took the time to reply. It's encouraging to think that perhaps a door was opened to a conversation about how best to motivate Christian artists to strive to be worthy of their calling. Eph 4:1 1) Sesame Street is full of art that teaches. That's why the example of a Sesame Street character spreading propaganda came to mind. (Also, I happen to be a huge fan of art that teaches in general.) 2&3) Thankfully, I can just turn to a dictionary for a good starting point. Propaganda: - the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person - ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause Art: - the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects 4) Crochet. Particularly amigurumi. And to close with a bit of a tease, I'm with the many who consider creating instructional videos such as this an art, not propaganda. ;)
In my opinion respectfully I will state, that we are to be careful to put our walk with God over art. While many people may cringe or call christian art "cookie cutter" Especially secular people, it is important to keep in mind that we are to please God in all things first, not people. I'm 19 and an artist, and from walking with God i learn that art is best when it is a overflow of our walk with God and Holy Spirit inspired. It may not be liked by everyone and thats fine.
Thank you for your reply. I agree it is important to walk with God, as we learn and grow in our sanctification. I also agree that our art should be an overflow of our life in Christ. But please consider that if all of life is important to God, and that Scripture speaks to all of life, then our art should be free to speak to all of life. God cares about everything from making shoes to the tragedy of murder. As Christians, we are called to be salt and light, not cloistered, and completely separate from society. So why should our art be cloistered, or quarantined? There is no Biblical principle for such an approach. The underlying question is more about your particular calling. Are you called to minister to other believers, like a Levitical Priest in the Old Testament, or are you called to speak to the non-believer, and be used by God to shape the broader culture...bringing the salt and light of the Gospel to the world. I don't know your particular gifts, talents, or God-given passion, but maybe that is where the distinction lies. I would be glad to encourage you in that pursuit. we even have a course on understanding your calling as an artist that goes far more in-depth. Here is the link: a-e-m.org/the-artists-calling-online-course
Artists are not generally drawn to conservatism, and vice versa. The early artists seemed generally more interested in the power of Jesus' story whereas modern Christianity has been folded into political conservatism which in turn emphasizes commerce over creativity.
Yes...and, That's a whole other discussion. Historically, there wasn't such a divide. But art schools pushed boundaries while much of the Christian community was embracing fundamentalist ideology. We went opposite directions...and both sides have belittled and complained about the other. We have not recovered from that split.
Yup. Incredibly accurate. When I was rebelling against God, I had a studio called Impossible Fantasy Studio, and all of my work was fueled by anger, desperation, angst, despair, confusion, heartache, and LOTS of booze - and my work was relatively popular regionally. I began following Christ and believed that I had to do these things you are talking about when it came to producing art and even taking in musical and other artistic expression. I tried to launch a new studio called A New Creation Studio and spent years thinking I had to do the Thomas Kinkade thing - and discovered I had no creative vision once all the "ugly" was kicked out of the allowable resources to draw from. I've learned better. David was a man after God's own heart because he was complex and passionate. Even when listening to music, I have had to slowly wake up to the fact that we are not meant to live inside the approved hymnal. I recently did a video encouraging siblings in grace to use their outside voices and genuine emotional swells that Jesus tells us we need Him to see us through. Well done, thank you, and to God be the glory.
What a blessing to get your comment. You are the reason we create these videos and write blogs on our website! Too many Christians get trapped in those unbiblical mindsets that can cripple your creativity. So glad you found us! Stay in touch, and sign up for our newsletter with weekly devotionals for creatives like you.... www.a-e-m.org.
i got an answer to you question: nothings wrong with christianity. you can take what you like. We got lots. ex: archie comics, faithwalker, archganels the saga. ISnt that beautiful? i dont want to be in the bunch who talk badly about Christianity. No i am gonna talk POSITIVELY about christianity. Hey christians NOTHING is wrong with you. The world wants you to think there is something wrong with you. But NOTHING is wrong with you. bye god bless you
Did you watch the video? I think you miss the point. Indeed, nothing is wrong with Christianity. And yes, there are wonderful artists and creatives who are believers. Just encouraging us to be wise in how we think about these issues and how we present ourselves.
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Powerful and Life Changing Video! What a blessing to me and many others. Well done! Bravo! Thanks!
What a wonderful comment, brother! It is such a blessing to encourage others like you in this area!! God Bless you in your creative endeavors!!!
Beautifully said. I’ve always been skeptical about this topic as a Christian artist myself, but I’ve always been too afraid to fully question it because of the religious attachments and being seen as too judgmental. I feel a lot more comfortable on my stance after watching this video.
Thank you. 🙏
What a pleasure to read your comment. So glad it was helpful. Please share it with other artists.
The same reason a lot of mainstream art is bad: message and virtue signaling is valued over making a decent piece of art.
👏👏👏 JP2GiannaT, YES!!!! When I do a live lecture I often make that point, but forgot to include that. Thank you. Lately, I'm sick of going to museums or theaters to end up with propaganda in my face "preaching at me" instead of art, inviting me into a conversation.. or inviting me to take time for contemplation.
This is exactly what I'm doing through Animation Ministry! I believe in showing Bible stories without sanitizing them to stir the hearts and minds of people. I've made a couple concept trailers to show what I mean, and one of them is about Samson!
Perfect! Samson was strong, handsome and a mess! When we portray him with honesty and authenticity, it can be freeing and encouraging --- audience members and fans can begin to realize, maybe God can even use someone as messed up as me.
This video got me thinking. One reason we have bad quality christian art is we don't develop our skills and we shy away from pursuing excellence. I am now wondering if my art is too sanitized. I paint scripture stories but I could be still in the sanitized area. Prayerfully re-evaluating.
Exactly. Excellence should always be a given for believers. King David said, "I will not offer to God that which cost me nothing." If we Love God with all our heart and our work is really an act of worship, then our art should always be done with excellence. Anything less is a bad witness, and a failure to fully honor God by giving him our best. You are on the right track .
The point you made on people outside of the christian context not relating to a lot of what is called "christian art" is so true. I find that as soon as my music, design or even conversations becomes superficial, perhaps from the fear of making a mistake, it looses relatability and power. There might be a larger "fear of doing something wrong" within the christian community and therefore also less creative exploration. This video gave me more perspective on the topic. Thank you!
Great point playing it safe leads to shallow art and a shallow testimony before the watching world.
I liked that you talked about this as it doesn’t seem to get talked about. In my experience Christian art seems to always have to be more like illustration, calling it prophetic art. My art is abstract so I can’t seem to relate to all the other artists painting lions. It feels sad to feel I can relate more to the enthusiasm and inventiveness of artists that aren’t Christians.
Jacqui, great point! Part of the simplistic nature of so much "Christian Art" is that it is reduced to literal items from the Bible, even if they are also symbolic (Lions, Lambs, etc.) They are merely illustrating something already given to us, rather than creating a new parable or visual language to speak afresh to the audience of today.
Good news! There are many Christians who are involved in more abstract art. Signup for our newsletter to find ways to get connected. Are you here in Los Angeles?
I am a prophetic artist and I sometimes paint based on visions and dreams and sometimes they are brand new syboIisms and sometimes they are simple. I also write a lot alongside my paintings. I really would Ike to understand. I have painted abstract but my problem with abstract is that people nowadays just throw paint and sell it for thousands. There is absolutely no intention or meaning behind a piece and its called abstract. I know there are people who create meaningful abstract but in the sea of random chaos, stading out as a meaningful abstract painting that causes people to think is rare. God created with intention. Shouldn't we too? If art is meant to cause people to think, without being preachy, how can we best represent God's love for the world? Should it be 100% abstract and be similar to most mainstream abstract art or can it symbolism and stories that we are used to with our own creative spin to it?
@@sukisfineart Great points and questions. Your desire to communicate through your art is wonderful, and it is great to hear that you want to make art that is not preachy, but also not void of content. What artists inspire you? Maybe consider improvising or choosing a new style that has abstract influences, but incorporates symbols, texts, or color in a way that tells a story. You are not restricted to one type of art, naturally. What artists do you want to have an artistic conversation with through your art? Rothko, De Kooning, O'Keefe? consider your art as a response or engagement with their work... but use new ideas and tools to speak a new artistic language maybe...
I feel your pain at the relating more to the enthusiasm of non Christian artists. I want to enjoy Christian art and be on the intent on what Christians want, but honestly I don't want watered down stories just to tell a Gospel. Not that I don't want the good news to come out, but that there is SO much more that Christians can do to be creative but don't know how to without it feeling demonic or just have less creative Christians. Whatever the case, I want to be that creative Child of God that knows how to execute a story well without it feeling watered down and unique!
I just recently found this channel. Thanks, truly appreciate the advice as a Christian inspiring to be an artist❤️❤️
Welcome Jem! Sign for our newsletter on our website and be encouraged... you are not alone!
My parents wanted to get me to watch this one Christian show. I didn't want to, as I thought it would be yet another on the pile of stories with good morals but were uninteresting otherwise. Adding to that, I thought the intense looking man on the cover of the DVD case was Jesus, and thought they wouldn't portray Him right. I was wrong about all of these. That wasn't Jesus, that was Simon Peter. This wasn't just another show, it was the Chosen. It wasn't sanitized, but it wasn't overcome by darkness. It was great and probably the best show I've seen.
Yeah, Dallas has done a wonderful job of making the characters relatable and believable. It is such a great improvement over so many other productions.
This was a great encouragement! As an illustrator and storyteller - I've been wrestling with these thoughts for years!... I'm aiming always to make Good God honoring art - And that means it needs to be good...
So glad to have you join us! Let us know if you have any questions...and feel free to check out our blog for more resources www.a-e-m.org
COokie cutter Christianity. Pastel colors always painting the same few images of Jesus from the movie the Passion etc. Or bible verses on canvas.
👏 So True. Predictable art fails to invite us to see something new about God's word or Christianity. Such art isn't a conversation. God didn't give us creativity to simply cut and paste. If God chose to 'cut and paste' we would never have a narwhal, a platypus, etc. God's creativity never ends, and his invitation to us is to keep developing our creativity and ability to express anew something about His creation, His love, and His grace.
This is because people don't receive revelation; they either don't believe in new revelation, have been taught the same basic stuff for years and years, or they don't seek to know the depths of God. It's astounding how many Christians prefer to remain shallow.
Love this, this is really helpful for fleshing out my mission statement for my art.
Awesome! So glad it helpful for you!
Thank you! Good art of all kinds, but especially Christian(/religious) art, should reflect the "four fold method" used in sermons, with literal, symbolic/allegorical, moral and anagogical (pointing to the ultimate goal of individual and all lives) levels. It should also reflect the connection between Truth and Beauty, as do Renaissance paintings - even those depicting great cruelty and suffering. You nailed it when you noted that this is very difficult today - especially with a religiously ignorant population (How often do you say, "I don't believe in the God you don't believe in"?) and unwilling audiences. Good new art could be an important key to unlocking the problem.
Ah, yes, the early church model of the four fold method. Haven't heard of that in quite some time.
Thank you for taking the time to comment.
Thsnk you for this video.❤
Our pleasure
i'm an ambitious Christion writer and I'm making a Christion manga series for everyone to enjoy
and pray to God to make it really good.
and not making it judgmental or bad or anything bad
That is great to hear. The manga audience is massive, and we need more Christians creating content for manga that is more godly.
This is golden thank you🙏🏻
So glad it was helpful. Please share it with other creatives who need to hear this.(or family, friends, patrons, etc...) Have a great day!
It may be that what we produce has become too simple and skims the surface. Almost as if we are creating works for the global church members alone , a huge Sunday school lesson for those in the know and not creating with our Father for the world to see and question.
The Bible is rich in accounts where you don't see the events coming.The exact types of ups and downs, twists and turns are not everyday routines, let alone some of the Endings. Did anyone think Yael would tent peg a guys forehead the first time they read it? Yet in Christian films I know the plot will be about overcoming Drugs, adultery, a tough home life and then joining a church family. Sometimes we don't actually focus on exactly how Jesus saved the person and skip to the protagonist going to church on Sundays after being saved somehow. Maybe as creatives we need to be more vulnerable with the journey of living this life we have, more bold in realising and communicating we are still in this world but not of it. Myself included. For the first time, I'm reading fantasy novels written by Christians. I was surprised when I realised these worlds they create don't hold back on showing the cruelness of the 'humanity ' the compassion and confusion of some charcaters, the fear of the present and future, longing for the past and promise, the supernatural and that it won't always be this way. It's a step in the right direction.
🤔 🙈🙉🙊 - Ah, yes. The Sunday school illustration obsession!
Great points! You are right - The Bible is surprising every time we read it. If our art is not surprising we lose something profound and precious in the process.
...and yes, we need to be more honest and vulnerable about our own imperfections and need for God's grace.
Great to hear about fantasy written by Christians. That market is enormous, and we need good writers in that market.
Blessings....
Great breakdown, thanks!
Very welcome! Glad you enjoyed it. Nice headshot Jaime - 😎
Thank you so much!
You're welcome!
In my opinion our Catholic brothers and sisters are stronger in this area than we Protestants . Listening to Bishop Barron or Brian Holdsworth talking about the argument from beauty for example, and encouraging Christians to portray it in their art
Yes, Bishop Barron is great! And yes, the Catholic thinkers have been the key voices for a theology of beauty in the last century. Von Balthasar and Von Hildebrand are essential in this pursuit. (Incidentally, I am writing a book on a theology of beauty,.... I believe the church deeply needs it today). So I'm on the same page with you.
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries I`ll watch out for that, for sure.
My own work is on Vimeo under "Alpine Wonders". On youtube I really only have a time lapse video plugging The Narrow Path radio programme by Steve Gregg. The quote from him should probably be vocalised rather than just text. Maybe one day. He would see the strength of the apologetic for beauty too, hence why he embedded my video on his homepage.
I feel utterly humbled, kind of
unworthy. I admire him almost too much perhaps
My big problem with Christian romance novels (and for a while they were all romance it seemed) is that the happy endings were never earned. The conflict was usually external and solved by coincidence which allowed the writer to get away with minimal character development. I believe badly written romance novels have warped women in their expectations and ability to navigate real life marriages (or their failure to get married.)
My specialty is writing. For a while I wouldn't read anything written by Christians since the 1960's except for nonfiction. The ABA could not do fiction or poetry decently it seemed.
Rachel, this is quite interesting. I am not a reader of Christian romance novels, nor non-Christian romance novels. So I don't have any expertise there, but it is interesting to note what you are saying. As you describe it, the Christian romance novels seem to employ a form of _deus ex machina_ to solve the romantic tension and allow for oneness and intimacy. If this is true, it is poor character development, a poor story arc, and a poor model for the reader...which you state.
This reminds me of my brother-in-law. His daughters went to a Christian College, and boys who were interested in them would couch their romantic interest in a spiritual language like, "I feel like God wants me to marry you."
This was bothersome to my brother-in-law, as it should be!
This is failing to own their own desire and attraction. They need to be honest and say, "I'm attracted to you, and want to know more about you, and see if there is a future for us together as a couple" but they hide their motives (or don't even understand their motives) and masquerade the whole thing in spiritually vague sentiments. That is what your comments remind me of...
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries fiction is not just about entertainment. It can help us understand and love the people around us better as well as understanding our own motivations. But only if properly written. Jane Austen understood human nature. So did Charles Dickens, Leo Tolstoy, Charlotte Bronte, Dostoyevsky, and Shakespeare. Reading them can help us in loving our fellow man.
Very True.
@@RachelNichols-writer
@@RachelNichols-writerOf course! Have you read any of Vigen Gurioan's books? He does a great job with that subject. Fiction can be even more potent than non-fiction as it inspires and even moves past the "watchful dragons" that Lewis and Tolkien talked about.
Thanks so much for your explanations. I have strayed away for years, now I listen to you every morning.
I think art in the rebirth by the Catholic Church was really really good. Unfortunately they started to sanitize the works and excommunicated artists who wanted to be authentic.
The church no longer values art the way it was in ancient times and it's really unfortunate. A lot of Christian talent is getting wasted
We definitely need more nuance in our understanding of art, as a Christian community, and we need new artists who are creating great art that fits a biblical worldview. And...Hopefully we can be a part of that change.
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries amen. Thanks for your response
Christians artists should learn the value of "Grace amidst the profane".
Sure, that is another topic worthy of addressing.
Less of a shot, hopefully more ofva valid point-
Part of the reason "Christian" art got the way it did is the creators, which is absolutely true. The other half of the problem is the audience. Many of the Christians who could partake of the better more complex Christian art either won't challenge themselves or don't have a derp enough nuanced faith to handle complicated stuff or worst of all, just choose the safe, nonconfrontational, cookie cutter because it's what they like and don't want to be challenged. Depending on one's relationship with God will dictate the type of art and willingness of the person to test their boundaries. Last year, 2023, was a big deal for Christian film (in my opinion) because throughout the whole year multiple studios were releasing many kinds of Christian nuanced projects. Almost all of the made money and almost all of them spent at least 1 week in the weekend's top grossing movie. And that trend is continuing in 2024.
I agree with what you wrote here: "Depending on one's relationship with God will dictate the type of art and willingness of the person to test their boundaries."
I also agree it is both a creator problem and an audience problem. For me, this means it is a theological problem coming through seminaries, pulpits, Christian publishers, etc. 2 core issues: Fundamentalism from Baptists, and an overstrict approach to the arts from Presbyterians.
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries Also, don't underestimate the average humans desire to avoid uncomfortable ideas and emotions. The default opinion for a lot of people is complex emotions are "bad" and new ideas are "weird"
I recently watched the movie Wildcat. It is a super arty biopic about the 1950's- early '60's writer Flannery O'Connor. I loved it so much I saw it twice in one week at a theater I don't normally go to. It is pulpy, raw and asks really good questions about God, Jesus and our relationship with him and the people around us. But it definitely is not for everyone, as it doesn't close all the boxes and tie up all the loose ends.
There are two moments in the movie where the put some definition around what God is. First, she says that God is not an electric blanket. In a later scene in the movie, she says God is not an insurance policy.
Unfortunately, I think many Christians see their relationship with God like that. And if that is the depth your faith, you won't challenge that relationship with God.
Which is why a lot of the Christian stuff can be so flat and shallow.
I’m an artist and it’s impossible to create one piece of art that hits on every single point mentioned here
The world is broken and Art will reflect this world but God is going to create a new world
I'm confused by your comment...I am arguing agains the idea that all art created by Christians must be sanitized or sentimental.
To be clear - you are free to make art that is comforting and therapeutic - that would align with a more priestly office of Christ (as opposed to the Kingly or Prophetic.)
The problem is when we require all art to be therapeutic, sanitized, etc. That is not a biblical principle. ...and by the way...Christians who think all art must be therapeutic are the reason the mainstream art world sees all "Christian art" as disconnected with the brokenness of the world.
...and in response to your core statement - This video is not meant to be used to make a work of art with all the points. The point is that rigid definitions of "Christian art" are limiting and unhelpful.
James 3 - (paraphrase) Do not desire to become a teacher, because teachers will receive greater punishment (if they teach falsely). Lest your viewers perceive this as permission to do as you please as long as it's considered "art."
1. The story of Samson (and other such examples) isn't so much graphic as it is descriptive. How did they gouge out his eyes? With a hot poker? with their fingers? With a knife? Even asking these questions makes my post far more graphic than the Bible. So, yes, the Bible describes some pretty violent scenes. It tells us of adulterous relationships, even orgies, and rape, but gives no detail. It simply tells us that it happened. It doesn't go into gory/sensual details of the events. The Bible is clear that we are not to present stumbling blocks or offenses before each other. You can include these elements without being profane or vulgar.
2. There is a difference between describing historical events and inventing titillating fictional events. Consider the difference between a camera catching a moment of accidental immodesty because of posture of an actress, and drawing a cartoon with the same level of immodesty. The first simply happens, and the camera "caught it." The second involves a series of choices that put the female in this compromising position. The only fictional events found in the Bible are the parables of Jesus. In none of His parables did Jesus delve into depraved subjects just to make a point. His parables are, by design, very simplistic. They have one simple lesson to teach. Very few of them provide the nuance and grit that is described in this video. Even the two mostly lengthy and detailed parables (The Good Samaritan and The Prodigal Son) don't gratify any fleshly desires to read about violence or debauchery. The man in the Good Samaritan simply "Fell among thieves." and the Prodigal Son spent all he had on "riotous living."
3. The only art form mentioned in the Bible is *music. We have no biblical reference for how to judge other specific art forms. God has much to say about music. Most notably in 1 Colossians 3:16 - "Teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs." Music is directly tied to teaching. Teaching what? The first part of the verse tells us - "The word of Christ." To say that music (and by extension, other art forms) is not for teaching is to defy what God has revealed.
*I suppose poetry and metaphor could be considered forms of literary art. Both are employed in scripture providing examples, but no directives regarding their use. And I agree that deeper, metaphorical language that makes you think is a good thing. Some of scripture is this way, and other places it is extremely simplistic.
4. "Art is meant to bring out nuance and depth and push you to think differently and challenge you." according to whom? The Bible? The secular world? Historically, before the modern era, Art was used to reflect God's creation and His Word. Your description of art is the post-modern, anti-God definition. Why should we accept the world's definitions? The biblical meaning for art is described in what you quoted: Declare the glory of God.
Well, yes, ...James 3. I take that very seriously.
but then you write - Lest your viewers perceive this as permission to do as you please as long as it's considered "art."
I didn't say that, and wouldn't.
Please consider that I can't say everything in each video.
First you mention:
1. The story of Samson (and other such examples) isn't so much graphic as it is descriptive.
Agreed.
Then you state:
2. There is a difference between describing historical events and inventing titillating fictional events.
Agreed. We are never supposed to be licentious or gratuitous. We have said this in countless ways for many years.
please check out this video to get more of our content related to evil, and being prudent in what we depict: th-cam.com/video/0Y_dTMUqbnk/w-d-xo.html
and you write about Jesus' parables not being explicit.
True.
Then you make a claim that is simply not true:
- The only art form mentioned in the Bible is *music.
please see: th-cam.com/video/IpMtStLa3Ng/w-d-xo.html
There is so much art in the Bible.
Francis Schaeffer pointed this out decades ago, but most churches do not look for this, much less consider the ramifications.
We have no biblical reference for how to judge other specific art forms. God has much to say about music. Most notably in 1 Colossians 3:16 - "Teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs." Music is directly tied to teaching.
No. that does not mean all music is directly tied to teaching. go to the Psalms...we have psalms of mourning, thanksgiving, repentance, etc.
Colossians is not defining music, it is
the verse read, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God."
let the word of God dwell in you richly as you do these things:
1 "Teaching and admonishing" is the first category
2 "Singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" is the second category.
one is not defining the other.
To be honest, The Greek does not warrant your translation.
then you write:
*I suppose poetry and metaphor could be considered forms of literary art.
YES.
again, see our video on art in the Bible. th-cam.com/video/IpMtStLa3Ng/w-d-xo.html
LASTLY,
4. "Art is meant to bring out nuance and depth and push you to think differently and challenge you." according to whom? The Bible? The secular world?
According to the very nature of art, which is a form of communication, and expression.
According to the way we create and the way people respond to art.
Think of it this way:
Bad art has no nuance.
Good art does - it draws you in... this is a primary concept in appreciating all kinds of art.
then you write:
Historically, before the modern era, Art was used to reflect God's creation and His Word. Your description of art is the post-modern, anti-God definition.
No.
that is simply not true.
There was orgiastic, pagan, atrocious art from the beginning of civilization - just look at Ancient Near Eastern history and archaeology: Idolatry and pagan art abounded.
Even early operas were very sexual and pagan in Italy.
Art was not purely reflecting God's creation except in the modern era.
Then you write:
Why should we accept the world's definitions? The biblical meaning for art is described in what you quoted: Declare the glory of God.
again, No. That is not a definition of art.
Art is simply a form of communication.
Christians should emulate God's communication, and honor God with their gifts.
non-Christians will not.
God's creation does declare His Glory.
but God also communicates through poetry, etc.
and God rebukes, warns, loves, persuades, etc. etc. God does not communicate with one approach.
again..see the video on art in the Bible, please.
Agreed
Remember the Man of Uz
Job.
I just watched Paul apostle of Christ.....awesome movie!!!!!
Haven't seen it, but glad you enjoyed it.
I’m a Christian artist and I make beautiful art and write music as well.
That's Wonderful. keep creating, and watch some of our other videos to learn how to honor God with your craft!
"If your artwork is all about teaching then it's propaganda. It's not art. Don't confuse the two." I'm imagining Elmo in a Nazi uniform explaining with a catchy song and expertly crafted scenery that it's patriotic to learn the alphabet, and only traitors reject learning.
I get the points trying to be made, the way they're presented makes me want to reject them all.
your example brings more confusion than clarity to the issue.
How do you then define propaganda?
How do you then define art?
what kind of art do you create?
@@ArtsEntertainmentMinistries
I'm super impressed you took the time to reply. It's encouraging to think that perhaps a door was opened to a conversation about how best to motivate Christian artists to strive to be worthy of their calling. Eph 4:1
1) Sesame Street is full of art that teaches. That's why the example of a Sesame Street character spreading propaganda came to mind. (Also, I happen to be a huge fan of art that teaches in general.)
2&3) Thankfully, I can just turn to a dictionary for a good starting point.
Propaganda:
- the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
- ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause
Art:
- the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects
4) Crochet. Particularly amigurumi.
And to close with a bit of a tease, I'm with the many who consider creating instructional videos such as this an art, not propaganda. ;)
In my opinion respectfully I will state, that we are to be careful to put our walk with God over art. While many people may cringe or call christian art "cookie cutter" Especially secular people, it is important to keep in mind that we are to please God in all things first, not people. I'm 19 and an artist, and from walking with God i learn that art is best when it is a overflow of our walk with God and Holy Spirit inspired. It may not be liked by everyone and thats fine.
Thank you for your reply. I agree it is important to walk with God, as we learn and grow in our sanctification. I also agree that our art should be an overflow of our life in Christ. But please consider that if all of life is important to God, and that Scripture speaks to all of life, then our art should be free to speak to all of life. God cares about everything from making shoes to the tragedy of murder. As Christians, we are called to be salt and light, not cloistered, and completely separate from society. So why should our art be cloistered, or quarantined? There is no Biblical principle for such an approach.
The underlying question is more about your particular calling. Are you called to minister to other believers, like a Levitical Priest in the Old Testament, or are you called to speak to the non-believer, and be used by God to shape the broader culture...bringing the salt and light of the Gospel to the world.
I don't know your particular gifts, talents, or God-given passion, but maybe that is where the distinction lies.
I would be glad to encourage you in that pursuit.
we even have a course on understanding your calling as an artist that goes far more in-depth. Here is the link:
a-e-m.org/the-artists-calling-online-course
Artists are not generally drawn to conservatism, and vice versa. The early artists seemed generally more interested in the power of Jesus' story whereas modern Christianity has been folded into political conservatism which in turn emphasizes commerce over creativity.
Yes...and, That's a whole other discussion. Historically, there wasn't such a divide. But art schools pushed boundaries while much of the Christian community was embracing fundamentalist ideology. We went opposite directions...and both sides have belittled and complained about the other. We have not recovered from that split.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thank you!
Yup. Incredibly accurate. When I was rebelling against God, I had a studio called Impossible Fantasy Studio, and all of my work was fueled by anger, desperation, angst, despair, confusion, heartache, and LOTS of booze - and my work was relatively popular regionally. I began following Christ and believed that I had to do these things you are talking about when it came to producing art and even taking in musical and other artistic expression. I tried to launch a new studio called A New Creation Studio and spent years thinking I had to do the Thomas Kinkade thing - and discovered I had no creative vision once all the "ugly" was kicked out of the allowable resources to draw from. I've learned better. David was a man after God's own heart because he was complex and passionate. Even when listening to music, I have had to slowly wake up to the fact that we are not meant to live inside the approved hymnal. I recently did a video encouraging siblings in grace to use their outside voices and genuine emotional swells that Jesus tells us we need Him to see us through. Well done, thank you, and to God be the glory.
What a blessing to get your comment. You are the reason we create these videos and write blogs on our website! Too many Christians get trapped in those unbiblical mindsets that can cripple your creativity. So glad you found us! Stay in touch, and sign up for our newsletter with weekly devotionals for creatives like you.... www.a-e-m.org.
i got an answer to you question: nothings wrong with christianity.
you can take what you like.
We got lots. ex: archie comics, faithwalker, archganels the saga.
ISnt that beautiful?
i dont want to be in the bunch who talk badly about Christianity.
No i am gonna talk POSITIVELY about christianity.
Hey christians NOTHING is wrong with you. The world wants you to think there is something wrong with you.
But NOTHING is wrong with you.
bye god bless you
Did you watch the video? I think you miss the point. Indeed, nothing is wrong with Christianity. And yes, there are wonderful artists and creatives who are believers.
Just encouraging us to be wise in how we think about these issues and how we present ourselves.