This is SOOOOOOO TRUE. Especially with Christian MUSIC. I find myself just listening to 1 artist over and over because EVERYTHING sounds EXACTLY the same, or it's copying the world with Christian lyrics.
This is awesome! I'm going to be talking to the elementary kids in leadership roles in their group at my church, so thank you for the thoughts and examples!
One word of caution: The sinners prayer does not save anyone. Nowhere in Scripture will you hear "Recite these words and you are saved". I believe the church has watered down the Gospel so much that we need to emphasize repentance and faith instead of repeating a mantra
Read John 6, & also how Jesus sent out his disciples to 'baptize' people. I think though, people are struck by the powerful, stunning words of Jesus, telling you to lose your life, & then you will find it.
One thing that is detrimental in this argument is the stance of "the church's mission to get people to pray the sinner's prayer". I think that is very flawed and leads people astray by thinking they prayed one prayer in their life and they're good with Jesus. The church's mission is to "go out into all the world and MAKE DISCIPLES". That's a continual action. Teaching, encouraging, admonishing, and warning every man to place their full faith in Christ alone and walk beside them and teach them how to keep the faith until the end. The goal is not for people to say a prayer one time, the goal is to get people to truly believe with their hearts and confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is LORD
Jesus made disciples by baptism. And in John 6, it is clear that Holy Communion was put forth by Him as a way to 'receive' Jesus for eternal life, not a sinners prayer. Participation in Holy Communion through one's lifetime will lead to a life time of ''sinner's prayers.'
@@cchemmes-seeseeart3948you receive salvation by The Holy Spirit sealing you and making you born again. Anyone can take communion but like scripture says, many place judgement on themselves because they take it not discerning the Lords body and the spiritual meaning. And Jesus said to “disciple and teach all men” THEN he says to baptize. People need to have a mature understanding of who Christ is and what he did for them to understand the realities of what baptism is, a outward sign of an inward work
@@iamjahshua Read John 6. That is part of the gospel, So is John 3. No one receives the sacraments blindly, without full training in what they are doing. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is the sacrament of confirmation, which is done with many young person/ teen classes, weekly for a whole year, & teen weekend retreats. So I guess the Catholics are all set that are wrongfully judged against. For adults, there is the RICA program, which is full discipleship training for a whole year as well. I don't know many churches without such sacrament prep; or many people who would just blindly get baptized or have a 1st holy communion. Most people nowadays would not bring themselves to church, week after week, to receive the sacrament, unless they had a true heart to do so. Although maybe in the case if mom drags a teen or husband to do it, or other social pressure, maybe. In our day, people mostly will just stop going to church, feeling no social pressure, as in the past. The Bible passage you refer to speaks about early Christianity, with 1st generation church, & not all realized what they were doing, as a different matter. For example, some were accustomed to pagan feasts, so they wanted a whole feast & barbecue & were trying to change Christian communion into such gatherings, leading to Paul's reprimand, to guide them that Christian Holy communion is not for feeding the belly. It was 1st generation Christian, reaching people from the Gentile world.
@@iamjahshua Read John 6 & Matt 19. Going to Holy Communion is the most "depend only on Jesus" thing we can do, & yet you say it is not enough? Jesus I do wonder, when Jesus sent His apostles out as a mission, to baptize, & then the apostles returned to jesus, how long do you think they spent 'discipling all the people they baptized? A day? A week? Christians never cease to attack other Christians that they assume others are not doing it 'right,' by THEIR ideas. But what are Jesus' ideas? Matthew 19: 16-26 shows why it is about God dependence, not human feats.. for all your good ideas. Yes, we are called to kingdom life, but NOT as THE thing in itself that saves us. We are saved for kingdom life, but kingdom life is not what saves us.
Create art to reflect the profound beauty of God's creation; it is, in itself, a deeply spiritual act. Art serves as a form of communication with God, much like prayer. By expressing your love for God and His works, you cultivate gratitude. I often find myself pondering, 'What can I give in return to show my gratitude to God?' The answer that comes to me is that this act of respect is, at its core, a creative endeavor. There are no pre-made patterns or clichéd formulas for expressing your unique blessings. You must create this expression yourself. Achieving a meaningful result requires meticulous effort; your sincere intentions-rooted in love and gratitude-combined with dedication and hard work, culminate in a true work of art.
This reminds me of someone asking how we can have Good Christian movies. Turns out it has to do with Protestant Culture as they noted they didn't see these problems or it's far less in Christian Films outside the Anglo sphere. One has to do with how Art is seen as means to an end to spread the message, disregarding the story. The other is other more American Protestant problems like avoiding Emotional tensions in the story.
The "sinner's prayer" = the goat prayer. it is the prayer of the modern Pharisee.--- How about "...teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you ..."
What is Christian Art? Is that based on history or texts from the Bible? Or is it much more extensive. Can a work of art, a painting that you enjoy and perhaps not a Biblical subject also be Christian art? I think yes. In Protestant churches, at least in the Netherlands, you still see relatively little art. Fortunately, things are changing. This is not an indictment because it has a history like most cultural expressions. I will not tell the European history, but in the Middle Ages where there was a lot of art to no art at all in the church, at least in the Netherlands this is the case. As the Dutch proverb says, the baby has been thrown out with the bath water. I know that God loves art otherwise he would not have surrounded his temple (in the old testament) with art. I enjoy seeing and creating art.
I wanted to watch a valuable youtube video while doing some work in my kitchen. I considered that I most wanted to watch one to assist my art effort, which I am about to commence, after a lot of life derailing setbacks. I prayed to God that I want to do great art, but I don't know what that is in this day & age? No one wants to see the work of the past today, etc. So I prayed to ask if God would please provide a video on youtube to help me, by saying something to give me some insight into how I can create great art. LOL. THIS is the video that appeared at the very top of my youtube feed. I agree with this message, at least in terms of movies. And I've seen some bad contemporary art. It can be hard to discern. I know God has given me answers to prayer about my art- to tell my story; & affirmed by desire to have being in nature & also seeing animals as also part of my art effort. I'm thankful for this video.... & that it leads to a next additional video. I'm also thankful that I've received answers to prayer to enjoy my work. I'm excited to get back to daily full time work on my art. I'll be glad when I make some progress in this discovery/ exploration/ style development stage, to have a more solid view of what I want to do.
summary: why quality in Christian world is lacking: overspiritualized pragmatism: the idea, it's good if it works/ achieves the goal (sinner's prayer). So all that matter's is to achieve #1 goal; focus on ends, not means/ quality of the art. People see art as communication- so Christians think, then you should communicate the gospel/ the sinners prayer, as standard of good/ otherwise secular or not useful. This greatly limits being inventive. Creativity is about finding new/ different ways of presenting things; w/ message focus, lose sight of the art. Uses analogy of construction company, e.g. if the important thing becomes having a name, 'christian construction company,' & not all the other factors of having a good company for workers & customers. This is not how the Bible expresses things, when looking at the entire Christian world view/ kingdom of God. E,g, construction, in building, forming, fashioning, can be a good in itself & achieve God's purposes, & help you care for family.... Creativity as a root system of reality. God is Creator/ people create. The very act of doing art itself is an expression of humanness, the way God designed it. The very act of creating is a positive good. You don't have to stick the message on it to make it good.... God's divine nature is seen, from what is made (Bible). Look at creation & see God, without seeing Him directly. Notice, God did not write 'Jesus loves you' on all the trees. Art can function the same way. It can speak to something beyond itself.... It's also like the idea of how film, etc, can impact the culture, & not always in a + way....Most people hate preachy films, no matter what they are preaching, when too obvious. e.g. instead have message woven into the characters, story, without being direct. The best films, get the message across instead through story, + great film work. It's important for Christian artists to have a belief system about art that frees them up & fuels their passion for creating. I did find this message freeing.
I am a christian and a lifelong artist. I even too fine art in college. I don't believe in christian art or prophetic art ir whatever is practiced during worship services and calles that. I know artists who are also christian. What is the point of this talk. Are you saying that christian art is bad or are you saying practicing making art in church is bad?
But He said, to be saved, you must believe in the One God has sent- Jesus. In John 6, Holy Communion is an expression of this belief. And He also showed baptism to be vital, having his apostles go out & baptize people, as the route He used to draw people in. He also preached, having people sit in the countryside, as a vital spiritual activity or He would not have done so, & as our example, 'went about doing good.'
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Very good analysis! As an artist myself, I’m really glad you mentioned that the act of creating art itself is a reflection of God. Very encouraging!
This is SOOOOOOO TRUE. Especially with Christian MUSIC. I find myself just listening to 1 artist over and over because EVERYTHING sounds EXACTLY the same, or it's copying the world with Christian lyrics.
Well put, although I really dislike the label Christian artists (or Christian construction companies etc) Beauty is as beauty does.
This is why someone needs to make a movie out of Augustine's Confessions.
This is awesome! I'm going to be talking to the elementary kids in leadership roles in their group at my church, so thank you for the thoughts and examples!
One word of caution: The sinners prayer does not save anyone. Nowhere in Scripture will you hear "Recite these words and you are saved". I believe the church has watered down the Gospel so much that we need to emphasize repentance and faith instead of repeating a mantra
Read John 6, & also how Jesus sent out his disciples to 'baptize' people. I think though, people are struck by the powerful, stunning words of Jesus, telling you to lose your life, & then you will find it.
One thing that is detrimental in this argument is the stance of "the church's mission to get people to pray the sinner's prayer". I think that is very flawed and leads people astray by thinking they prayed one prayer in their life and they're good with Jesus. The church's mission is to "go out into all the world and MAKE DISCIPLES". That's a continual action. Teaching, encouraging, admonishing, and warning every man to place their full faith in Christ alone and walk beside them and teach them how to keep the faith until the end. The goal is not for people to say a prayer one time, the goal is to get people to truly believe with their hearts and confess with their mouth that Jesus Christ is LORD
Jesus made disciples by baptism. And in John 6, it is clear that Holy Communion was put forth by Him as a way to 'receive' Jesus for eternal life, not a sinners prayer. Participation in Holy Communion through one's lifetime will lead to a life time of ''sinner's prayers.'
@@cchemmes-seeseeart3948you receive salvation by The Holy Spirit sealing you and making you born again. Anyone can take communion but like scripture says, many place judgement on themselves because they take it not discerning the Lords body and the spiritual meaning. And Jesus said to “disciple and teach all men” THEN he says to baptize. People need to have a mature understanding of who Christ is and what he did for them to understand the realities of what baptism is, a outward sign of an inward work
@@iamjahshua Read John 6. That is part of the gospel, So is John 3. No one receives the sacraments blindly, without full training in what they are doing. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is the sacrament of confirmation, which is done with many young person/ teen classes, weekly for a whole year, & teen weekend retreats. So I guess the Catholics are all set that are wrongfully judged against. For adults, there is the RICA program, which is full discipleship training for a whole year as well. I don't know many churches without such sacrament prep; or many people who would just blindly get baptized or have a 1st holy communion. Most people nowadays would not bring themselves to church, week after week, to receive the sacrament, unless they had a true heart to do so. Although maybe in the case if mom drags a teen or husband to do it, or other social pressure, maybe. In our day, people mostly will just stop going to church, feeling no social pressure, as in the past. The Bible passage you refer to speaks about early Christianity, with 1st generation church, & not all realized what they were doing, as a different matter. For example, some were accustomed to pagan feasts, so they wanted a whole feast & barbecue & were trying to change Christian communion into such gatherings, leading to Paul's reprimand, to guide them that Christian Holy communion is not for feeding the belly. It was 1st generation Christian, reaching people from the Gentile world.
@@iamjahshua Read John 6 & Matt 19. Going to Holy Communion is the most "depend only on Jesus" thing we can do, & yet you say it is not enough? Jesus I do wonder, when Jesus sent His apostles out as a mission, to baptize, & then the apostles returned to jesus, how long do you think they spent 'discipling all the people they baptized? A day? A week? Christians never cease to attack other Christians that they assume others are not doing it 'right,' by THEIR ideas. But what are Jesus' ideas? Matthew 19: 16-26 shows why it is about God dependence, not human feats.. for all your good ideas. Yes, we are called to kingdom life, but NOT as THE thing in itself that saves us. We are saved for kingdom life, but kingdom life is not what saves us.
Fruits of the spirit first, the rest will come after.
Best explanation I have ever heard for why modern Christian music pales in comparison to the old hymns as well. Explained so well, thanks.
They didn't just want to make music that glorified God. They wanted to good music.
So true, men of God. Love from Mozambique
Create art to reflect the profound beauty of God's creation; it is, in itself, a deeply spiritual act. Art serves as a form of communication with God, much like prayer. By expressing your love for God and His works, you cultivate gratitude. I often find myself pondering, 'What can I give in return to show my gratitude to God?' The answer that comes to me is that this act of respect is, at its core, a creative endeavor. There are no pre-made patterns or clichéd formulas for expressing your unique blessings. You must create this expression yourself. Achieving a meaningful result requires meticulous effort; your sincere intentions-rooted in love and gratitude-combined with dedication and hard work, culminate in a true work of art.
This reminds me of someone asking how we can have Good Christian movies.
Turns out it has to do with Protestant Culture as they noted they didn't see these problems or it's far less in Christian Films outside the Anglo sphere.
One has to do with how Art is seen as means to an end to spread the message, disregarding the story.
The other is other more American Protestant problems like avoiding Emotional tensions in the story.
The "sinner's prayer" = the goat prayer. it is the prayer of the modern Pharisee.--- How about "...teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you ..."
What is Christian Art? Is that based on history or texts from the Bible? Or is it much more extensive. Can a work of art, a painting that you enjoy and perhaps not a Biblical subject also be Christian art? I think yes. In Protestant churches, at least in the Netherlands, you still see relatively little art. Fortunately, things are changing. This is not an indictment because it has a history like most cultural expressions. I will not tell the European history, but in the Middle Ages where there was a lot of art to no art at all in the church, at least in the Netherlands this is the case. As the Dutch proverb says, the baby has been thrown out with the bath water. I know that God loves art otherwise he would not have surrounded his temple (in the old testament) with art. I enjoy seeing and creating art.
Excellent. I am catholic we have same problem.
I wanted to watch a valuable youtube video while doing some work in my kitchen. I considered that I most wanted to watch one to assist my art effort, which I am about to commence, after a lot of life derailing setbacks. I prayed to God that I want to do great art, but I don't know what that is in this day & age? No one wants to see the work of the past today, etc. So I prayed to ask if God would please provide a video on youtube to help me, by saying something to give me some insight into how I can create great art. LOL. THIS is the video that appeared at the very top of my youtube feed. I agree with this message, at least in terms of movies. And I've seen some bad contemporary art. It can be hard to discern. I know God has given me answers to prayer about my art- to tell my story; & affirmed by desire to have being in nature & also seeing animals as also part of my art effort. I'm thankful for this video.... & that it leads to a next additional video. I'm also thankful that I've received answers to prayer to enjoy my work. I'm excited to get back to daily full time work on my art. I'll be glad when I make some progress in this discovery/ exploration/ style development stage, to have a more solid view of what I want to do.
summary: why quality in Christian world is lacking: overspiritualized pragmatism: the idea, it's good if it works/ achieves the goal (sinner's prayer). So all that matter's is to achieve #1 goal; focus on ends, not means/ quality of the art. People see art as communication- so Christians think, then you should communicate the gospel/ the sinners prayer, as standard of good/ otherwise secular or not useful. This greatly limits being inventive. Creativity is about finding new/ different ways of presenting things; w/ message focus, lose sight of the art. Uses analogy of construction company, e.g. if the important thing becomes having a name, 'christian construction company,' & not all the other factors of having a good company for workers & customers. This is not how the Bible expresses things, when looking at the entire Christian world view/ kingdom of God. E,g, construction, in building, forming, fashioning, can be a good in itself & achieve God's purposes, & help you care for family.... Creativity as a root system of reality. God is Creator/ people create. The very act of doing art itself is an expression of humanness, the way God designed it. The very act of creating is a positive good. You don't have to stick the message on it to make it good.... God's divine nature is seen, from what is made (Bible). Look at creation & see God, without seeing Him directly. Notice, God did not write 'Jesus loves you' on all the trees. Art can function the same way. It can speak to something beyond itself.... It's also like the idea of how film, etc, can impact the culture, & not always in a + way....Most people hate preachy films, no matter what they are preaching, when too obvious. e.g. instead have message woven into the characters, story, without being direct. The best films, get the message across instead through story, + great film work. It's important for Christian artists to have a belief system about art that frees them up & fuels their passion for creating. I did find this message freeing.
Speaker: Bret Nicholson
Thank you for this! Well said!
Really good take! I couldn't agree more.
Any mistakes will from a sin....what do you think.....
I am a christian and a lifelong artist. I even too fine art in college. I don't believe in christian art or prophetic art ir whatever is practiced during worship services and calles that. I know artists who are also christian. What is the point of this talk. Are you saying that christian art is bad or are you saying practicing making art in church is bad?
Wow!
Christ said that the only thing we'll be judged on is our compassion. He gave two commandments: love and honor God, and love your neighbor.
It was more like to love each other. Imagine if we did follow our route to love each other. This world will be completely different.
But He said, to be saved, you must believe in the One God has sent- Jesus. In John 6, Holy Communion is an expression of this belief. And He also showed baptism to be vital, having his apostles go out & baptize people, as the route He used to draw people in. He also preached, having people sit in the countryside, as a vital spiritual activity or He would not have done so, & as our example, 'went about doing good.'
What is that pragmatism about? You are you a pastor that Christ is real and He can use who ever?
He said to give your money to the church so that they can spend it on theme self like we see with this fake Pastos