This was a fantastic conversation! I found I agreed and disagreed with all of you at some point or the other. For my money, the first film is the only one that is a real film. As enjoyable as Rocky II is, I don't think it has nearly the amount of authenticity and nuance. It feels like a movie made to provide the wish fulfillment for the audiences that wanted him to win in the first place. I hate that Stallone disregards the whole eye/southpaw issue from II when we get into RIII and moving forward. I think RIII is absolutely sliding into the cartoon era, and RIV is that cartoon fully realized. While I agree with Ian in that RIV is not a good movie from a narrative and character standpoint, I can also appreciate it for the cartoon that it is. I can totally see how it is somebody's favorite in the series without it being the "best." For my money, it's easily the most rewatchable of the bunch because it is that perfect distillation of the series. Kind of like how Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter is the best of those films, because it puts all the elements together. (That said, I think there is an argument to be made that F13FC is also the "best" of those films, while RIV is not.)
This was a fantastic conversation! I found I agreed and disagreed with all of you at some point or the other. For my money, the first film is the only one that is a real film. As enjoyable as Rocky II is, I don't think it has nearly the amount of authenticity and nuance. It feels like a movie made to provide the wish fulfillment for the audiences that wanted him to win in the first place. I hate that Stallone disregards the whole eye/southpaw issue from II when we get into RIII and moving forward. I think RIII is absolutely sliding into the cartoon era, and RIV is that cartoon fully realized.
While I agree with Ian in that RIV is not a good movie from a narrative and character standpoint, I can also appreciate it for the cartoon that it is. I can totally see how it is somebody's favorite in the series without it being the "best." For my money, it's easily the most rewatchable of the bunch because it is that perfect distillation of the series. Kind of like how Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter is the best of those films, because it puts all the elements together. (That said, I think there is an argument to be made that F13FC is also the "best" of those films, while RIV is not.)
Another great discussion, guys. I still haven't seen the directors cut of IV. I guess it's an excuse to rewatch the whole series.