James Reviews the Rocky IV Director's Cut - Cinemassacre
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Try 5 pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com.... And thanks to Warby Parker for sponsoring this video. (The "home try-on kit" is only offered in the USA.)
James reviews the new cut of Rocky IV called "Rocky VS. Drago." Stallone has finally been given the green light by MGM to re-edit this film from 35 years ago. In the original film. after reclaiming the boxing championship title, Rocky Balboa (Sylvester Stallone) plans to retire and live with his wife, Adrian (Talia Shire). However, during an exhibition match, Rocky's friend Apollo Creed (Carl Weathers) is mercilessly beaten to death by hulking Russian newcomer Ivan Drago (Dolph Lundgren). Rocky vows payback against Drago and flies to Russia to train for a Christmas Day fight. Despite their different training methods, Rocky and Drago both wage a long and intense match.
AVGN Physical Game Pre-order:
store.screenwa...
New AVGN Blu-ray (Seasons 13 & 14):
store.screenwa...
Black Friday Sale:
store.screenwa...
Cinemassacre Crew:
James Rolfe: / cinemassacre
Justin Silverman: justysilverman.com
Kieran: / kieeeeern
Try 5 pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com/cinemassacre. And thanks to Warby Parker for sponsoring this video. (The "home try-on kit" is only offered in the USA.)
Hey James are you going to do a ghostbusters afterlife review?
Hey uh have you heard of 8-bit Christmas?I think you should review it because you know so many video games and it was a cool movie.
It sounds like you said war be Parker.
When will you do Ghostbusters Afterlife??
Was this video plagiarized too?
When Adrian told Rocky "you can't win", on top of Apollo's death and obvious revenge on his mind, I always figured he was just taking a drive to just get some air and clear his head.
That's what I always figured too.
Me too
same
The Lamborghini scene /no easy way out montage , he's not supposed to be driving anywhere . He just got thru arguing with Adrian , so he's going for a drive to clear his head .
@@JohnSmith-yd5wq apperantly not to james
@@phillytheflyerable He's a pretty sharp guy, it's weird when you hit one of his void spots like that
James points it out that hes not going to the airport. but the tunnel worked as a segway for the viewer to Rocky in Russia. Now momentum was killed a bit
He's driving a budget Lambo.
Absolutely. He probably circled around Philly.
Feels like inevitably there will be a 2 hour fan edit of this that will end up being the ultimate version.
I agree. All done at home without the money stallone has
Call it the "Happy Birthday Paulie Edition" and feature the robot on the cover prominently!
Your getting one soon. I’m making a ultimate cut that is not only better but the definitive version. Sadly there will be no robot but the movie will flow and be much better.
@@difference3maker36 I really hope you're staying true to your word
Akready working on one
More movie reviews by James (and only James) please. I miss these.
Agreed 👏🏻
Especially no Justin
@@GD2X If you are an fan, you'd have known who Justin was and why no one likes him :p (not the Justin that does the theme song, btw)
No, I miss the group reviews. James can be to critical about stuff.
And not just new stuff. Reviewing old stuff is what he’s know for and is his element.
I’m so glad you mentioned the Rocky V workprint. A lot of people don’t know about it. I’m hoping that gets a well deserved release by John out of of this
Unfortunately, John G. Avildsen is deceased now. It would have to be Stallone taking the reins if that happens. I actually liked part V
@@Alexvander10 I like rocky v too but Sly hates it and I don't think he'd ever revisit it again which is a shame an edit of the film would be great
Surprised there was no mention of virtually a complete removal of Bridgette Nielsen’s character in the directors cut. She’s practically non existent.
Messy fallout after they divorced
Nice.
@@VaderPopsVicodin10 Over 30 years ago, they got divorced over 30 years ago.
I really don't see Stallone being that petty.
I believe she took Stallone for over 200 million in the divorce but I don't believe that's why a lot of her scenes are cut. I think Sly was trying to portray the Ludmilla character as simply a state actor. She's a wife given to Drago to keep him loyal to the party basically his handler. That fits perfectly with Creed 2 as we learn she left Drago because he disgraced the party
Stallone not even mentioning Brigitte Nielsen once during the documentary speaks volumes.
I completely agree with you on Sly recutting Rocky V.
I’ve watching the work print quite a few times, and when you get the full image of how the film could have been, its a real competitor for best Rocky.
It really is! I think the theatrical cut of rocky V is a 7 but the directors cut is a 9.5
I remember the original rocky 4 having alot of grunts during workout scenes. Especially when dragos treadmill started going up
Like Stallone going “huh” 🤣🤣
sure, but it didn't drown out the music. IT was the one part of the film where it gets loud because of all the sounds going on between the two domains of the boxers in their training groove.
Stallone is such a legend he’s proud of where he came from and will never let the rocky series die.
I wouldn’t let it die!
"If it dies..... it dies". Sorry I couldn't resist.
Even Sly said he shouldnt havekilled Apollo creed
@@Ilias24. made the movie that much better that they did though.
@@michaelb4538 agreed it gave rocky a reason to fight
I find it fascinating that Stallone tried to humanize Drago a little more in this cut. It's interesting how attitudes and people have changed since the end of the Cold War. It's quite possible that if Stallone had instead decided to do this 30 years ago, right after the fall of the Soviet Union, we would have an even more unique take on the Drago character.
It is very much more realistic. In the original Drago is a one dimensional cardboard cutout which is ironic given that he knocks the cutout of Apollo down.
It actually tells a better-story considering where the character went in *_Creed 2._* It was apparent even in the original that Drago was just a tool used for political-propaganda, but he still felt like an inhuman, merciless-killer. In the new cut, you can see that he knows he is being used and he isn't exactly on-board with it. There is a flame of honor inside of him despite what he did to Apollo.
I'll still never forget how at the end of *_Creed 2_* I actually felt sorry for Drago.
@@D2Kprime So in the original cut...when Drago shouts out, 'I fight to win FOR ME...FOR ME(directed at their Premier)....THAT failed to alert you to all of this? This new cut exists for ONE REASON...because Stallone is so insecure that he still needs to beg people to like him and his work...If he thought it would make the critics say nice things about him, he'd turn Drago into an ESKIMO...
That internal dialogue they added to the last fight definitely sounded like old Stallone, as opposed to it being a cut from 1985
I feel it’s a film we didn’t need a directors cut for. 4 wasn’t perfect but it’s a very fun and exciting film. You can’t beat the montages and music
Your NIT-PICKS are sooo on point. This is why your awesome James!!! Yes the cardboard scene and the demonstration scene were so fast-paced and so many lines were also edited leading up to the Apollo fight that this was so hard to get into at times!! Great review !!!!
The intro may be long, but I saw this in a theatre and the Clubber Lang rematch is my favourite fight so I was all for it.
It was a little long but all was forgiven when they started playing "Sweetest Victory" after Clubber Lang went down.
It was unnecessary when u been watching Rocky 3 multiple times leading up to the release
The thing I noticed was that Bridgette Neilson was rendered to complete background character. Obviously there is a personal component there with Stallone that probably informed this decision, but to me, she was so important to Drago's character, especially after seeing Creed II, that cutting her role down to almost nothing was disappointing.
I haven't seen the directors cut, but from what you said I would have to agree. Her part was so perfect in the original Rocky IV where she was just pumping as much chemicals and technology into Drago as possible.
Yes, she was completely absent during the final fight which is really odd...
Well, since this cut was supposed to be a “rough draft” (ex.deleted scenes) of what the 1985 version ended up being, that’s technically backwards.
Well f this cut then.
I wonder if they kept that shot of her smiling when Apollo goes down for the count.
You've gotta live for yourself, because you've gotta live with yourself. Great line.
Stallone should redo Rocky V as well. That one really needs all the help it can get.
Well, Stallone didn’t direct that film and so he may not feel like he has the authority to tweak it in anyway because of that.
if you mean redo pretend it never happened i agree just make balboba rocky 5
Nothing can save that awful movie.
I never thought it was THAT bad.
But, it most certainly is the one I’ve rewatched the least.
That movie is beyond saving. 😂
It would need to be reshot.
Because some of the actors are dead they would have to do CGI on all the actors.
Glad you mentioned the music. I thought it was just me. It wasn't completely silent, but it definitely didn't feel as punchier (pun intended).
Rocky V directors cut for sure. To this day Stallone needs to explain how Tommy Gunn got 11 fights and a title match all while his kid stayed in the same grade......lol
No don't Rocky V was the worst one.
Also how his kid aged like five years while he was in Russia.
Sorry, the director of Rocky V John G. Avildsen, is dead. Sylvester wrote it. You are looking for a Writers Cut. When did you last see one of those?
@@DevilDaddyGaming2024 Rocky should end on the highest note possible. Destroying Drago in IV makes it the last movie for me.
@@MH-eh5qt Stallone actually said he wants to do a directors cut of 5, and mentioned that he didn't direct and that's why it felt "off"
Rocky IV was definitely my favorite in the series growing up... I was always a sucker for 80's montages and this movie was always at the top of the list for me (alongside Kickboxer and movies like that lol).
The scene where the committee didn't want Rocky fight after Apollo's death can be seen in the Rocky 4 1985 trailers.
I recall a trailer that focused completely on Drago. He had more lines and exposition in the trailer than he did the film. Lol
And I remember them REALLY playing up the size difference to freak people out.
@@niceguy1774 Lines from that trailer are in the director's cut when Drago speaks after killing Apollo.
That's a lot of trailers.
I wish Sly would’ve just added the new scenes with Apollo, the boxing commission scene and the new additions to the fights to the existing cut. And kept more of the silliness in it.
agreeed
Well at least that's what fan edits are for.
Agreed
@@KevinJDildonik I even felt like the robot didn’t have to go because as cheesy and dated as it is, there was some charm and silliness about it that could’ve stayed in. The anniversary cake scene could’ve stayed in. It wasn’t all bad.
Agreed 100
I still want an explanation on how Rocky's son aged 5 years overnight from the events of #4 to #5. 😄
The boy who played Rocky Jr. in the third film is now a trans woman.
@@williamshaw9047 So he has a severe mental illness? That's sad for him.
The Robot wasn't out of place at all, the scene depicted Rocky splashing out on gadgets and stuff he arguably really didn't need, hence Rocky 5 showing the family under pressure with a return to the poverty they came from.
It also showed a poignant and funny reaction to Paulie interacting with the robot, like when he says "She loves me" that made sense because Paulie was always depicted as being single and somewhat lonely, it was a bittersweet scene.
The robot was dumb. Rocky tried to make this a more grounded movie. The robot deserved to stay in 1985.
It also plays into the fear of technology. Rocky is training in a barn and Drago is training with a lot of high tech.
In theory, you are absolutely correct. But the only house robots in 80's were in the movies, Star Trek, and EPCOT Center. The robot confused me as a kid because it took away from a movie mostly grounded in reality (if still a bit cartoony). It needed to go, but I'll still love it for the slice of cheese it was.
@@noless And Drago taking steroids which is ironic considering how many steroids Stallone himself took while training for his movies.
@@aaronsarchive82 I read that the robot was something that was originally developed for children with autism and Stallone's son has autism. Knowing that, I give him a pass for the robot and find it a bit... endearing. I'm not going to pretend the robot worked well but losing it felt bitter sweet.
Stallone actually said in a recent interview that he would also like to re-edit Rocky V!
I hope he does
I'd be interested.
Does he the authority to do that? He technically didn't direct that film.
He should just have MGM release the workprint version that is on dailymotion. Hopefully that is what he meant and they will just take that workprint version and beef up the picture and audio.
@@Dohsoda he wrote it and I believe has atleast partial ownership of the characters so it's not much different then a studio remaking an old movie. It's basically like the Snyder Cut of Justice League.
Would love to see a spliced Ultimate cut with all the footage, as James imagined it would be. I remember some of James' older videos where he explained he was splicing together an ultimate cut of King Kong and other classic films; would be a golden opportunity here.
Release the James Rolfe Cut!!
@@wiimoterevcon Hahahah, brilliant. 😂
someone could easily do that now.
@@smugshrug Exactly. Here's hoping they do.
When he's driving in the tunnel, he's just out for a drive, to think and ponder things. Haven't you ever done that?
Definitely
Definitely helps out.
WITH THE GAS PRICES THESE DAYS?'??
@@chuyjaume No, back in 1985. 😉
Thats exactly what he was doing after naggy C-3PO like Adrienne told him he couldn't win a fight with Drago...
Right at the face-off before the Creed/Drago fight the DC has Drago hitting Appollo's gloves down where the original has Apolllo hitting Drago's gloves and they didn't move like he just hit a cement brick, that was a huge impact to me as it showed Drago was some kind of "immovable object" and I guess Rocky could be the "unstoppable force".
I guess James hasn't reviewed Ghostbusters: Afterlife yet. Hopefully Rocky Vs Drago airs on Netflix or Prime next year.
You can see it on prime now
It’s available on ALL digital platforms that allow purchases.
@@EvaFull As long as you’re in the US.
@@GNARK1LL420 When/Where did he say that about Ghostbusters: Afterlife?
@@GNARK1LL420 someone took a video he made about ghostbusters 2016 and said he was talking about afterlife. That video isn't real
I want to see more of these types of videos. James, himself, just talking about movies
What, you don't like listening to Kieran take over the conversation with unrelated half-remembered conspiracy theories?
He wasn't going anyway in the tunnel James. It was a scene to reflect his past, present, and future circumstances with no easy way out
When i need to think i throw on my aviators and take a drive at night
Personally I like the funeral scene and the kitchen scene with Adrian. The build up is a lot better in the theatrical version leading into the exhibition match with Apollo Creed and Drago. However it is interesting seeing these interesting little tidbits pop up in between scenes, it almost as an extra layer into the rocky iv universe
Man…. I thought I was the only one that noticed the music just wasn’t hitting like the original version. It sounded watered down or something. You were spot on with your opinion of the editing and sounds 👍🏾👍🏾
Saw rocky 4 in the theaters two weeks ago, and didn’t know it was gonna be edited. I still had a good time.
lol really? You thought it was just an anniversary screening?
@@thecunninlynguist, some theaters showed old movies during covid when new movies weren't being released. Other theaters have been showing older movies that some people have never seen on the big screen as a way to get people back into theaters.
Even though "Ultimate Director's Cut" was a part of the title?
@@ThaMizphit74, you act like I gave a completely crazy explanation. Sounds like OP didn't notice.
@@MichaelMartin-qe5ye No, you’re just taking it that way. But it is in the title though, and the trailers.
All of the promo for it.
I think the boxing commission was resolved because Rocky gave up his title and had to fight in Russia, to avoid them. The sound was mixed to low absolutely
The boxing gloves "i want you" goof wasn't entirely fixed at all, theres still a moment where he can be seen with no gloves from the front.
Oh this drove me nuts. Stallone even pointed it out on the documentary, so I thought they'd fix it. They didn't!
I’m about 8:47 in. It had to be your sound system. Drago’s grunts and the tire skids were in the background on my system. The music was still paramount
I like both cuts of the movie. I’m always going to prefer the theatrical cut more
I agree with the Great Clement when he said he never wanted the robot cut and I thought it was the cutest thing actually despite it being way out in left field. I would like to see the extra scenes that were cut but that would be it...
somebody should do an ultimate cut combining the best of the original with the best new parts.
I do like the original release more. But it was still very cool to see all never before seen content.
3:14 “Don’t be Negative” - Ricky from RICKY 1
Look forward to AVGN's cut version where you merge old and new editions into a proper one. No more missing scenes :)
Few films capture the excesses and absurdities of the "Me Decade" like 1985's ROCKY IV. We miss the robot (he had the best character arc), but this remains a genuine '80's camp classic.
"The Me Decade" was the 1970s.
In the theater the sound was fine , but when I watched it in my home theater on my surround , the music wasn’t as high either
Rocky IV is probably my favorite. Rocky II, III and IV are masterpieces in my eyes.
Rocky 1 was the best
@@matro951 One of the overall greats.
@@jamesteegardner2273 no the best
If Sly does a recut of part 5, at least have a moment where a sportscaster says Don King Clone’s protege beat Clubber Lang to get the title. I always was a little bothered that Clubber just left the fight game after losing once. Seems that he’d have won it back when Rocky vacated the title by going to Russia against the committee’s wishes.
Overall the original cut is better. I did like the extended eulogy with Duke and Rocky takes more accountability for the death (which ties nice into creed 2). The ending is an interesting change.
James, I could be wrong, but I'm near certain the missing glove part in the ring wasn't fixed in the edit
youre right it wasnt.
I hope he releases the uncut Cobra one day. Man I love that movie
Will it expand the relationship between Cobra and those cholos who keep taking his parking space? Or explain the New World Order as something a little more complex than "If you're stronger/more vicious than someone else, they deserve to die."
Hello mate I’m from London, just wanted to say I bought your AVGN PS4 game and I loved it. Takes me back to my childhood, just with a lot more swearing. Anyway thanks for the entertainment. 👍🏻
I love when you post randomly
I love listening to you talk, James!
Really appreciate your analysis James. Really enjoy how you speak/teach a lot from your own knowledge of filmmaking and cinematography. It’s like an insiders look into how a creator processes their work and choices. Really love this kind of thing. On the topic of subtitles. I watched on Apple TV. Subtitles were under the picture. As in, not in the shot, but below the frame.
Rocky 4 isn't a movie. It's a montage.
And we love it for that reason.
It works though. Rocky 1/2 were great dramas. Rocky 4 is great fun
Over half the theatrical cut is a montage.
Fact.
Now we need a director's cut of Rocky V!
Errrrr, the director died years ago...
There already is one. He released it online in 2002
With the sound mixing, it was either your system, or HBO Max. I saw it in the theater and it was identical.
I always thought he was driving to decompress and meditate in a sense. This is the only Rocky Paulie's appreciative. He does the most damage to Rock and the family in 5 and he loses ground .. well, he's literally in the ground in Rocky Balboa lol!
He’s alive in Rocky Balboa. It’s in Creed that we see his grave.
@@robinanwaldt That's right.. I remember him and Adrian being buried to. Thanks for clearing that up. :) I did just watch Rocky vs. Drago and it has its qualities but, the differences and different takes they use, especially at the end, just aren't the same. But, the music wasn't muted and no double subtitles lol!
Paulie is a great character and especially so in Rocky Balboa.
I enjoyed this review and the fact that it was only James. I don't watch the videos anymore if there's people other than James in them. I don't even click on them.
Whatever version you prefer, I think by the end of the day, the power of making a movie work can really be found in the editing.
I saw Rocky vs. Drago in the theater, and I didn't feel any problem with the sound mixing there.
I saw it in the theater and the music did seem mixed down there.
The voiceover during the knock-down was added to now be a call-back when we watch the scene in Rocky Balboa (2006), when Rocky gives advice to his son.
The part where Apollo isn’t wearing a glove is still in the directors cut!!! Rewatch that scene and it’s plain as day
I agree with all that you said James. As for the "No easy way out" drive, I always took it that he just went for a drive to think about things.
Rocky 4 was my favorite of the series, I can't wait to see this new one.
James, you echoed nearly all my thoughts. I don't mind losing the robot, but the jump from R3 to Apollo's pool... Pretty bummed Sly didn't include the Promise fight.
Wish they would release that workprint version of rocky 5
I haven't seen the entire directors cut, but I still prefer to see the original cut.
Yes! The sound was off. The beginning was bad compared to the original. Pacing was too quick and very noticeable, Bridget Nielsen's role is narrow down so far that you can't feel her presence in the film.
I noticed that in the documentary Stallone noticed a shot right before the Creed v Drago fight begins where Apollo has no gloves on while hes saying
"I want you!" But in the next frame he has his gloves on. But for some reason it was left in, even though Stallone noticed it. Weird
It was definitely worth the $14.99. I was surprised at how much footage was added.
I remember fondly years ago James had all Rocky 🥊 movies playing in the AVGN review. Not sure why that was removed.
Thank goodness this came out, otherwise the last 80s movie ever released would be Grizzly 2, and that would have been a tragedy.
WE NEED THE JAMES CUT
I recently watched this again, since it's a childhood favorite.. and i never realized it was just a hour and a half montage
There’s 2 kinds of Rocky fans: those who’s favorite Rocky film is Rocky 4, and those who are wrong.
I’m one of the latter. I liked Rocky IV but RB is my favorite.
Rocky 1 and 2 are my most favorite.
Rocky 1 and 6 are my favs
Rocky 1 and 4 are the best, but 1 is far superior
The director’s cut added virtually nothing of value. There were two scenes with Adrian, in particular the moment before Rocky leaves for Russia, that were heartfelt and definitely should not have been cut from the original. Other than that, I feel the theatrical does everything else better.
To me the whole DC sounds like a project where Stallone is thinking that his acting days are starting to be behind him, so he has to tinker with his old classics just for the sake of doing something "new"
One more weird thing was Drago hitting Apallos gloves and I thing he hits Rockys gloves the same way. Drago drinking water twice.
"Yo, Tommy! I didn't hear no bell..." Editing out the robot from Rocky 4 is like cutting that line from Rocky 5, BLASPHEMY!!
I got the notification for this and I thought you were going to be reviewing Rocky's sick haircut
Until I saw your podcast where you mentioned it I had no idea they were playing this in the theatre but I had already missed it 😢. That would've been awesome.
I heard Stallone had been working on it but I didn't know he was releasing it in theaters either, or that he had already released it.
I’ve not seen this version, but most of what I’ve heard has been very mixed. Some things are improved, while other things don’t do anything to really help the overall story. Guess it depends on your thoughts on the original cut of Rocky IV before going into this cut.
I would say that it's an okay companion.
But the original cut, I think, is the superior film.
Sly didn't fix the missing glove with the re-edit. It's still in there.
sounds like a neat project and I would love to see a Rocky 4 with the best edits you and Stalone put in. here's hoping we learn of his stance on that version or even the idea of a Rocky V director's cut
I read that boxing commission scene as it's illegal to fight him because he's not a ranked fighter. Not that they are convincing him not to fight. That's why he goes to Russia. So the boxing commission can't say no.
This Movie would just be Kickboxer if Apollo was in a wheelchair.
Kickboxer. What a movie
Stallone had said in an interview that he regrets killing off Apollo Creed. I agree too.
I didn't like how Apollo actually "hurt" Drago (well hit him and phased him) but I get the goal was to humanize Drago more
Well I think it was more so to give Apollo a more fulfilling send off, make him put up a little more of a fight than to just get murdered so easily
True but thats what made Drago such a great villain, I think part of it in the new cut though is that hes definitely supposed to be more a weapon/tool of the USSR
I actually liked it more to be honest. I felt it gave Apollo respect, and gave Rocky some hope that he could beat him.
I saw the workprint for the street fight in Rocky 5 and it is way better than the final cut.
Bro! The same taste in video games, we both love the Rocky movies, did we just become best friends? Lol!
I think Rocky is just going for a drive to get his thoughts together, and it leads to him reminiscing about his past. So he's not going anywhere in particular
I dont think he will do 5, his son who passed is in it. It might be too much for him to do that
When I say Labyrinth in the theater a few months ago the music was very low as well. Maybe its a trend with new mixes, it was a little disappointing due to how much music is in that movie.
I have a feeling I would hate this new cut... I loved the over the top 80's cheese action movie presentation of the original...
I've never watched the newer Rocky and Creed movies... but I don't want a more realistic grounded take... so this recut sounds like Stallone wanted this newer cut to blend in more with the newer takes for the franchise... less over the top overdramaticiation, less blaring 80's jams, more dramatic tension by quieter moments and less making Drago seem like a Terminator, but just a really strong dude but still human and sympathetic
haven't seen Balboa from 06? You should! It's one of the best in franchise.
No he did the recut to make it consistent with Rocky 1 to 3. Rocky 4 is the only movie in the entire franchise that is like t is. Rocky 5 is still a Rocky film at the end of the despite some of the characterizations and Rocky Balboa is a masterpiece and has Rocky 1 all over it.
In the Fandago Theatre, when I was there, the sound was fine. I didn't notice anything being off.
No other sports movie can beat the entrance of Apollo Creed in Rocky 4
I watched it on Amazon Prime Video, there were no sound/music volume issues, all sounded loud and crisp. Must have been your surround sound system, like you said.
There was nothing wrong with the original. I don't know why he needed to edit it nearly 40 years later. If anything R5 would of been a better choice because it's the one that seems the most out of place.