My last 3 years of gigging were with a Metal band using a 18x16" kick, 2" lift, emad batter, same dampening inside, with a Audix D6. Small stage, big stage, that thing just hit you square in the chest out front. It cut thru the dropped D and B tunings no problem. The FOH guys just loved it! If your music is good, and you sound good, people don't give a sh!t how big the kick drum is.
Years ago I saw a rock/metal drummer that had the best bass drum sound I ever heard out of approx 2000 gigs I have been at, I was a festival stage manager for 7 years and played in a band for years also. He had two 18 by 16 kicks but told me there was some sub bass frequencies added through the pa rig. It was mid nineties so probably akg mic and remo ebony heads.
Amen my dude! Cover band (rock,funk,pop) myself. I'm playing a 16 inch with an emad and a kick mic through the PA. The band and everyone at every gig says they can't believe how much presence it has, and my back and shoulders have never been happier after a 3+hour gig! If you use the right heads/tuning, and then mic the bass, any size will work great!
I play two 18x14s on my double bass kit 3 rack toms one floor Tom all smaller sizes I wanted a double bass kit that took the same amount of space as standard 5 piece it’s wicked. I get more attack out of me than my bigger kick drums.
To be honest, in the very first demo, I liked the sound of the smaller bass drum more. Maybe they were just tuned completely differently. I don't know It sounded deeper, at least on my phone. As the demos went on, I had more difficulty discerning based on sound.
Long time drummer and sound engineer here. There was one more big thing you could do with the drum to make a difference and a mic placement technique to eliminate the “basketball” tone. Put the drum on a riser to get the mallet closer to the center of the drum. That will reduce tone and increase attack. Instead of the dampener across the drum on both heads, use a boundary microphone like an e901 or beta 91 directly on the shell. Some people mistakenly place these in a may type system which defeats the purpose. A boundary microphone effectively eliminates the surface it is attached to which will help remove that “basketball” ping. That ping is caused by internal reflections within the cylinder meeting at the microphone point at nearly the same time.
Now that is quite a while ago but - would you mind to clarify a little bit? Boundary microphone directly on the shell - you mean in the inside, right?I got a PUR CBM1. And would you mind to clarify? I couldn’t get the term “the may type system”. Appreciate a short answer // thanks
Mic choice is another variable you can use to tune this. Using an appropriate large diaphragm condensor on kick out, mixed is another way of getting better low frequency response. Something like a U47-type mic (Advanced Audio, United and Warm do affordable clones). And because you are reducing the relative amount of that kick-in signal, by adding in the kick-out signal, you reduce the absolute amount of that basketball tone. Then, a sub-kick 'mic', or these days synthesizing just a touch of sub at 30-40hz makes for a much bigger sounding kick drum. When I listen to the difference between the 22 & 18, that's half the difference. The other half is is that you get the benefit of that more defined woody impact thwack from the 18". And I do love Beta 52As for that beater into head on wood shell impact. But if you want that bigger kick-drum sound, an Audix D6 imparts a deeper subbier character on the recording. If recording, placement in the room is another variable. By moving it around, you can find a spot where the room that re-inforces the lower range of the kick. Drummer sitting more in a corner but kick facing out into the longest diagonal can be a good place to start. In your example, it sounded to me like the room mode might have been being excited at that recording location, to give that sine pure resonant tone.
Great video. Although there's still that thump to 22", that 18" just cannot produce. I guess some laws of physics just cannot be overcome. Which pisses me off 😄
Clear powerstroke 3 with ported reso with a small moving blanket will get you much closer to a 22". Keeps the ability to have a low fundamental tone and you have plenty of attack. I'd recommend a wood beater over an emad for an 18" kick if you really need to increase attack. The emad does add attack but also brings the note up higher. I don't have any recording equipment but my 18 sounds great. Thanks drum dog for posting your method!
I live in Japan and play everything. Jazz jams in live houses that hold 30 to40 people and the drums are always big rock sets!! I just bought a bop set and going to start using them!
I have a Pearl MHX Masters Mahogany kit and change the setup frequently. I play classic rock and normally use a 20" kick with a Sennheiser e902 and eMad pad inside. It sounds great. I also have an 18" MHX that I had been using single-headed as a gong drum and am now configuring the kit with the 18" bass drum and an Aquarian Super Kick II with the eMad pad. I have both a Shure Beta 91/A and a Sennheiser e902 inside. The drum itself sounds fabulous, can't wait to plug the mics in Saturday. I'll do a video on it in the coming weeks.
I’ve been using 18” kicks since around 2017. Had a 5pcs Tama imperialstar. Then I bought a 5pcs stage custom with a 20” kick and ordered an 18 to go with it. Now I have a mapex v series kit with 8, 10, 12l toms and an 18” kick and a Tama club jam
I have an 18 Gretsch Catalina model bass drum with Evans Calftone heads. I compared it to the bass drum intro part of the Black Sabbath Iron Man song and it actually sounded similar! It really is proof that 18 bass drums are capable of being versatile in songs and not just jazz..…but it also probably helps if you get a well made drum.
An excellent video showing the changes with each step. I play a 1983 Superstar 18 x 14 for most everything. I think you got the best sound with the Emad but before the pillow. The pillow kills it a bit too much. I use old school felt strips very near the edge. Doesn't kill it quite as dead.
Absolutely amazing video. I own a 24x14, a 22x14, a 20x14 and an 18x14 and I’m playing anything from Megadeth to Lady Gaga to Kool and the Gang and the 18 bass BY FAR is my favorite! Yes it’s got the emad , same emad muffling Pad and a Audix D6 and it’s killer. The compliments never stop. Thanks for this review, it just enhances what I’m doing. Peace ☮️
I'm glad to hear that! I spent most of my time playing 22-inch kicks in the 90s but I really remember liking 20" the best and to be honest with you I'm surprised 18" is your favorite but I must say whenever I play the Catalina Club 18 inch bass drum I am blown away! What 18" BD are you playing?
@@williamperri3437 I’ve got a Gretsch renown maple 57 bop kit and a Gretsch broadcaster and they both thump. I actually prefer the renown! I actually sold my Ludwig classic maple kit that had the 20 and the 18 Gretsch is much better , go figure. Your as loud and awesome as your PA system!
@@alydude2011 Well, there's your answer! It's a Gretsch compared to a Ludwig! No brainer! I'm assuming you've played the Catalina club with mahogany wood as well? Those 18 and 20" bass drum sound phenomenal!!! Honestly though, I am also interested in the PDP wood hoop bop kits and the concept maple with standard hoops. I always thought DA was way overpriced didn't sound as good as Tama, Yamaha, or Gretsch but I am very impressed with the $700 to 1,000 PDP kits! I feel they sound as good as DW for a fraction of the price. I don't think either of your Gretsch bass drums are mahogany correct? That is just the Catalina line.
@@williamperri3437 yes I had two Catalina kits. Absolutely awesome for the money. That was how I got hooked on Gretsch and 18 kick drums. I just figured seeing that I loved the cats so much I might as well go high end.
@@alydude2011 awesome! I own a early 90 's Premier Cabria with a 22" BD and they are as good as stage customs but warmer. I also own a first-gen sonar Safari with a 16-inch Kick Drum and that thing's phenomenal but my problem is I have ringing in the ears and sensitive to sound now so I feel like the Catalina Club is probably my best bet of any drum set on the market. It's definitely warmer than just about any other kit, correct?
Nice drums, Nice drumming, great advice. You covered a lot....there's one thing I think you're missing which to me is a big one!! The placement of the beater on the 18" is not dead center. With the aid of a pedal lift, you can get that beater dead center. For me it makes a HUGE difference in the sound. Just an inch or two off center produces a higher less punchy note. With all the changes you illustrated, it would make sense to get that beater centered. Aloha!
Aloha! That's some top-notch advice on beater placement, especially with smaller kick drums. The difference in sound can definitely be significant. We appreciate you pointing that out - it's all about those details. Mahalo!
More data for consideration: I got good results elevating my 18" kick with one of those Gibraltar riser things. About 1-1/2" higher. I'm guessing that getting the shell farther off the ground helps the low end develop a bit better, and it puts the beater closer to the center. Works for me, along with low tuning, and a bit of muffling (bath towel). Passes for a 'rock' kick drum. For what it's worth!
What a great video! Really really helpful, especially for thoose who always wandered to switch to a 18" (or even a 20") for playing rock and similar, but without money to spend to try or just lazy! Thank you so much!
I've been using a Gretsch 18" bass for years now. No muffling, Evans emad batter, Remo Ambassador front with 3" port. It's got more punch and tone than any bass drum in any size that I've owned. Miked it's a freakin' cannon. 😎 Abide
It has a lot to do with the room you play in and the part of the room you are in as well. You can actually move your set around and get different sounds from it. In the corner of a room seems to be a lot deeper and carry further. In a there is a lot you can do to make a smaller bass drum to sound different. It's the same way with car or home audio. You can get different sounds from the bass depending on where you place the subwoofer and the type of box it's in. Rather it be a sealed box or a ported or a passive radiator. You can do the same wit the bass drum by getting a open front head on it or sealed and by changing the muffling and tune.
I love this! I've been debating about making my next drum build around a 20'' or an 18" and I think you helped make up my mind. Of course, I'm also planning either a 24" or 26" kit as well.... That's some tasty playing there, too.
Love my 22x18 Pearl Mx's, I use Aquarian impact heads just tight enough to get the wrinkles out, a little more loose on the reso's. Talk about thud and attack!
Understanding that, @nelsontorres1694. It can be hard to isolate that bass sound with the snare going. We'll keep that in mind for future videos to showcase the bass more clearly. Thanks for the feedback!
depends on the band and the room and the drum...played out for 4 years in an inde pop/rock/folk band with a 16" bass...a lot of times without a mic on it...currently have an 18" bass AQ2 set...with an Emad and ported reso it's a monster
I bought a used Tama Starclassic with 18 x 16, and it turned out to have this exact new head set-up installed, including velcro strips for the internal pillow. The crucial variables not mentioned here are: 1) lifting the 18" so the pedal strikes in the center, and (2) Power/volume loss in playing the 18" without a mic. Any drum can sound good in the hands of a good sound man, but I have felt that playing non-jazz gigs without a mic has required the 22", even without the pillow.
I'm running an 18x16 as well, and I'm definitely going to invest in the Evans pillow. I generally prefer a jazz tuning, but sometimes the music doesn't call for that.
That calftone tuned low is perfect. It has low end, fullness, and PUNCH. That emad with all that muffling gets you attack with nothing else, sounds like you're striking cardboard
Thanks I bought an 18” Questlove (didn’t know who he was at the time) set from a professional seasoned musician drummer here in Hawaii. My drummer loved the set. I like the sound of the loosened heads mod. Will you lose volume from loosening the heads?
I just love 18x14. Especially when recording. Big bass drums are fun, but sold my big ones, since I have no storage space from them(yes they even take a lots of storage space!)
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Sounded better IMHO before you moved the mic into the drum. Gave the sound some length. With other instruments the mic-inside variant would sound completely dead. If the tone is too long it can be shortened in post, but that's better than trying to actually ADD tone (I wouldn't, surely there are limits). Anyway YMMV and thx for the comparison!
A couple of fun experiments (mech & tech) Try to centre beater on batter to even out asymmetric ring-dampening ~might (depending on skin and shell speed), help fatten the "Whump". Toy with (for eg a Beta 52) presenting cross angle in rev port to shell inner on an angle incident to reflect axis to where beater falls; should leave Whump unaffected (may slightly lighten), increase and shorten Thump, and definitely help find some bite in in the Snap of lack-luster kicks :) ....... maybe ;)
I use a pair of 20” Yamaha Stage Custom kicks. They sound like cannons. No muffling needed; they are perfect rock bass drums. But they are NOT perfect jazz drums. They work, but are less than ideal. In my future will be an 18” for that purpose.
Those 20'' Yamaha Stage Customs do pack a punch! An 18'' for jazz sounds like a perfect addition to your arsenal. Excited for you to explore that territory.
I have a doubt! I think the skin you used was Evans BD18 EMAD CLEAR, right? I'm here thinking that the 18" Evans BD18EMAD 2 Clear might sound even better, would it?
On your next video explain how to make a 12” subwoofer sound like an 18” 😂 I’m considering a 16” bass drum after seeing this. There’s a Ludwig complete set for $250 used in my area I think I’m going to try it out. Classical music doesn’t need crazy bass and I think would be good to accompany acoustic instruments
I think you need good technique to make an 18 work. If you leave the beater on the head then you might run into some problems with the drum losing low end. You have to play off the head to achieve good attack and enough low end to use it.
Jazz bass drums back in the big band era used to be much larger: often converted 28" marching basses. As the cymbals became more of the sound, and as musicians started having to use their own cars or the subway, the smaller bass became a thing. Small clubs aren't going to fit a 22x18 without some compromise.
High, low, and medium tuning will project by Diameter and depth. Each will have it's own Sweet Spot. You will know the pitch you want when you hear it.....
The only other thing maybe you could have tried was adding a "Kick Port" to your porthole. I use one on my 18" as well as my 22" and it helps to draw all that low end into the kick mic.
This was very interesting, thank you. What I’ve learnt, is that I did every right instinctively (although not changed heads), but it’s good to know I am not missing anything. I’d also add, a heavy, soft beater and raising the drum of the ground a touch makes a difference. I actually have a 16” Sonor AQX, so even smaller, but I have got a rock sound out of it after some trial an error. I actually think it sounds cleaner and punchier. It does depend on the sound you’re going for though, for a tight, but fairly big modem prog sound this has worked just fine. You wouldn’t get a Bonham sound though, so there are limitations. The comparison I draw, is with speaker cabinets when recording guitar. Sometimes guitarists like to use a tweed amp for recording because they break up beautifully at a lower volume. However, they have 8” speakers, sometimes even 6” and they have what is sometimes referred to as a smaller ‘sound stage’. What I often do is reamp the sound through a Marshall 4X12, which has 12” speakers. Or, I might use an IR. You get the same character, but it just sounds bigger. It’s a very hard thing to achieve Amy other way; you can use saturation and reverb to be close to that larger than life sound. In summary I guess this works fine the majority of the time and it can even sound better in a lot of cases, but occasionally one needs a monster drum for a monster sound. (Of course you can go too far, a 24” kick needs a heavy foot to drive it) Cheers again guys, useful experiment. And if anyone is after something like this now, check out there Sonor AQX, great value. Paid about just over £400 new and I sold the snare straight up.
I definitely still hear a difference...but it's not really pitch, or even low end, it's more depth, which can be a good thing, or SOMETIMES, not a good thing. Even for full bands, I've sat in on kicks, that are 16" and 18" depths... and I typically prefer shallower depths, just sits better in the mix, and it doesn't feel like I have to control the kick as much!
I got a maple TAMA 20x10, I also have a 24 and a 22, and I haven’t been playing those at all since I got the 20. Something about that smaller size just feels and sounds so good
I have a Tama Silverstar bop kit which I use for all my gigs, not just jazz or small venues, but I've never been satisfied with the sound I get when I do the occasional outdoor festival gig, to the point where I considered buying a rock kit with a 22" or 24" kick drum. I had one of those outdoor gigs last night, so in preparation I used the tips in this video. I followed the tuning exactly and even bought an Evans EQ Pillow. The only difference is my batter head is a coated Remo PowerStroke 3. My kick drum sounded awesome! Now I realize mic choice/placement and sound system attributes have a lot to do with it, but from my vantage point behind the drums I was thrilled with the punch and tone I heard. I'm glad I didn't buy that second kit as my bop kit is to easy to transport and fits nicely in my Honda Civic.
My new 18 inch is flat on the ground but the pedal beater doesn't hit flush. Its at a slight angle and the middle to top make contact with the head. Any tips to make it hit flush? Thanks!
Mine doesn't hit flush with the Evans bass drum riser. I think some different beaters with an extension would do it. I think my drum sounds great though
Something not mentioned here is a riser. Not sure this drum needed it, but striking the drum in the center of the head brings out more of the fundamental pitch of the drumhead.
i watched tons of videos about how to tune my kick, and now i got a tone which isnt that bad. I still have an annoying dry sound, if you have any solutions, please
My last 3 years of gigging were with a Metal band using a 18x16" kick, 2" lift, emad batter, same dampening inside, with a Audix D6. Small stage, big stage, that thing just hit you square in the chest out front. It cut thru the dropped D and B tunings no problem. The FOH guys just loved it!
If your music is good, and you sound good, people don't give a sh!t how big the kick drum is.
Years ago I saw a rock/metal drummer that had the best bass drum sound I ever heard out of approx 2000 gigs I have been at, I was a festival stage manager for 7 years and played in a band for years also. He had two 18 by 16 kicks but told me there was some sub bass frequencies added through the pa rig. It was mid nineties so probably akg mic and remo ebony heads.
Amen my dude! Cover band (rock,funk,pop) myself. I'm playing a 16 inch with an emad and a kick mic through the PA.
The band and everyone at every gig says they can't believe how much presence it has, and my back and shoulders have never been happier after a 3+hour gig!
If you use the right heads/tuning, and then mic the bass, any size will work great!
@@MisterDelicious mixing engineers know that the punck is in the low mids, not the subs. So with the precision added by the smaller size, it's a win!
@@johncollins5552 Neil Peart's first Rush set up had two 18s
What lift do you use?
I play two 18x14s on my double bass kit 3 rack toms one floor Tom all smaller sizes I wanted a double bass kit that took the same amount of space as standard 5 piece it’s wicked. I get more attack out of me than my bigger kick drums.
Same set up here, but with three rack Toms & two floor Toms. Love the tone of the 18" bass drums. Miked they're like cannons. 😎
To be honest, in the very first demo, I liked the sound of the smaller bass drum more. Maybe they were just tuned completely differently. I don't know It sounded deeper, at least on my phone. As the demos went on, I had more difficulty discerning based on sound.
Long time drummer and sound engineer here. There was one more big thing you could do with the drum to make a difference and a mic placement technique to eliminate the “basketball” tone.
Put the drum on a riser to get the mallet closer to the center of the drum. That will reduce tone and increase attack.
Instead of the dampener across the drum on both heads, use a boundary microphone like an e901 or beta 91 directly on the shell. Some people mistakenly place these in a may type system which defeats the purpose. A boundary microphone effectively eliminates the surface it is attached to which will help remove that “basketball” ping. That ping is caused by internal reflections within the cylinder meeting at the microphone point at nearly the same time.
I should note that I’ve done exactly this with my Yamaha Bop.
This particular drum actually features a built in riser 👌
Thanks for the boundary mic tip! Maybe a next mic purchase 🤔
Now that is quite a while ago but - would you mind to clarify a little bit? Boundary microphone directly on the shell - you mean in the inside, right?I got a PUR CBM1.
And would you mind to clarify? I couldn’t get the term “the may type system”.
Appreciate a short answer // thanks
@@drumdog You could have placed the beater a bit lower still.
Just having something in the drum will cancel that "basketball" frequency. Ironically, a basketball would work.
Mic choice is another variable you can use to tune this. Using an appropriate large diaphragm condensor on kick out, mixed is another way of getting better low frequency response. Something like a U47-type mic (Advanced Audio, United and Warm do affordable clones). And because you are reducing the relative amount of that kick-in signal, by adding in the kick-out signal, you reduce the absolute amount of that basketball tone. Then, a sub-kick 'mic', or these days synthesizing just a touch of sub at 30-40hz makes for a much bigger sounding kick drum. When I listen to the difference between the 22 & 18, that's half the difference. The other half is is that you get the benefit of that more defined woody impact thwack from the 18". And I do love Beta 52As for that beater into head on wood shell impact. But if you want that bigger kick-drum sound, an Audix D6 imparts a deeper subbier character on the recording. If recording, placement in the room is another variable. By moving it around, you can find a spot where the room that re-inforces the lower range of the kick. Drummer sitting more in a corner but kick facing out into the longest diagonal can be a good place to start. In your example, it sounded to me like the room mode might have been being excited at that recording location, to give that sine pure resonant tone.
I spy Rob Brown tuning. Great vid 👍
Great video. Although there's still that thump to 22", that 18" just cannot produce. I guess some laws of physics just cannot be overcome. Which pisses me off 😄
Clear powerstroke 3 with ported reso with a small moving blanket will get you much closer to a 22". Keeps the ability to have a low fundamental tone and you have plenty of attack. I'd recommend a wood beater over an emad for an 18" kick if you really need to increase attack. The emad does add attack but also brings the note up higher. I don't have any recording equipment but my 18 sounds great.
Thanks drum dog for posting your method!
Another weird thing you can do is place something heavy in the drum. Like a sand bag
I live in Japan and play everything. Jazz jams in live houses that hold 30 to40 people and the drums are always big rock sets!! I just bought a bop set and going to start using them!
I have a Pearl MHX Masters Mahogany kit and change the setup frequently. I play classic rock and normally use a 20" kick with a Sennheiser e902 and eMad pad inside. It sounds great. I also have an 18" MHX that I had been using single-headed as a gong drum and am now configuring the kit with the 18" bass drum and an Aquarian Super Kick II with the eMad pad. I have both a Shure Beta 91/A and a Sennheiser e902 inside. The drum itself sounds fabulous, can't wait to plug the mics in Saturday. I'll do a video on it in the coming weeks.
I’ve been using 18” kicks since around 2017. Had a 5pcs Tama imperialstar. Then I bought a 5pcs stage custom with a 20” kick and ordered an 18 to go with it. Now I have a mapex v series kit with 8, 10, 12l toms and an 18” kick and a Tama club jam
Just bought a Club Jam! That's mainly why I'm watching this video so intently 😅
I have an 18 Gretsch Catalina model bass drum with Evans Calftone heads. I compared it to the bass drum intro part of the Black Sabbath Iron Man song and it actually sounded similar! It really is proof that 18 bass drums are capable of being versatile in songs and not just jazz..…but it also probably helps if you get a well made drum.
An excellent video showing the changes with each step. I play a 1983 Superstar 18 x 14 for most everything. I think you got the best sound with the Emad but before the pillow. The pillow kills it a bit too much. I use old school felt strips very near the edge. Doesn't kill it quite as dead.
Funnily enough I tried felt strips on this drum recently with great results! They're ideal for it, great shout 👌
-Nick
Absolutely amazing video. I own a 24x14, a 22x14, a 20x14 and an 18x14 and I’m playing anything from Megadeth to Lady Gaga to Kool and the Gang and the 18 bass BY FAR is my favorite! Yes it’s got the emad , same emad muffling Pad and a Audix D6 and it’s killer. The compliments never stop. Thanks for this review, it just enhances what I’m doing. Peace ☮️
I'm glad to hear that! I spent most of my time playing 22-inch kicks in the 90s but I really remember liking 20" the best and to be honest with you I'm surprised 18" is your favorite but I must say whenever I play the Catalina Club 18 inch bass drum I am blown away! What 18" BD are you playing?
@@williamperri3437 I’ve got a Gretsch renown maple 57 bop kit and a Gretsch broadcaster and they both thump. I actually prefer the renown! I actually sold my Ludwig classic maple kit that had the 20 and the 18 Gretsch is much better , go figure. Your as loud and awesome as your PA system!
@@alydude2011 Well, there's your answer! It's a Gretsch compared to a Ludwig! No brainer! I'm assuming you've played the Catalina club with mahogany wood as well? Those 18 and 20" bass drum sound phenomenal!!! Honestly though, I am also interested in the PDP wood hoop bop kits and the concept maple with standard hoops. I always thought DA was way overpriced didn't sound as good as Tama, Yamaha, or Gretsch but I am very impressed with the $700 to 1,000 PDP kits! I feel they sound as good as DW for a fraction of the price. I don't think either of your Gretsch bass drums are mahogany correct? That is just the Catalina line.
@@williamperri3437 yes I had two Catalina kits. Absolutely awesome for the money. That was how I got hooked on Gretsch and 18 kick drums. I just figured seeing that I loved the cats so much I might as well go high end.
@@alydude2011 awesome! I own a early 90 's Premier Cabria with a 22" BD and they are as good as stage customs but warmer. I also own a first-gen sonar Safari with a 16-inch Kick Drum and that thing's phenomenal but my problem is I have ringing in the ears and sensitive to sound now so I feel like the Catalina Club is probably my best bet of any drum set on the market. It's definitely warmer than just about any other kit, correct?
Great vid. Currently looking at 18" kick for weddings and functions. this has been a useful watch
So glad the video was helpful, @appleZac! An 18'' kick can be perfect for those intimate gigs. Let us know how it works out for you. 🥁
Never going back to an 18 inch bass drum love my 22
Nice.. but why you still watching 18" bass drum videos?? 😅
That's an awesome way to turn your jazz kit into a r&b kit with a simple head change and detentioning,
Versatile little beasts those 18s!
@@drumdog I hear ya .
Nice drums, Nice drumming, great advice. You covered a lot....there's one thing I think you're missing which to me is a big one!! The placement of the beater on the 18" is not dead center. With the aid of a pedal lift, you can get that beater dead center. For me it makes a HUGE difference in the sound. Just an inch or two off center produces a higher less punchy note. With all the changes you illustrated, it would make sense to get that beater centered. Aloha!
Aloha! That's some top-notch advice on beater placement, especially with smaller kick drums. The difference in sound can definitely be significant. We appreciate you pointing that out - it's all about those details. Mahalo!
That 18 inch has a great sound after all that. Thanks!
Thanks for watching 👍
It seems the older I get the small my drum set becomes. In my 20s double bass 4 toms yadada
Very great video with cool tricks and settings ideas 👌
Thanks a lot !
Thanks for watching! 🙂
Great video guys!
I love the sound of the 18 in stock with the evans calftone skin 😍
Really great video. Feeling better about my little 18”
More data for consideration: I got good results elevating my 18" kick with one of those Gibraltar riser things. About 1-1/2" higher. I'm guessing that getting the shell farther off the ground helps the low end develop a bit better, and it puts the beater closer to the center. Works for me, along with low tuning, and a bit of muffling (bath towel). Passes for a 'rock' kick drum. For what it's worth!
The riser helps immensely ... Even with 20s
I second this
What a great video! Really really helpful, especially for thoose who always wandered to switch to a 18" (or even a 20") for playing rock and similar, but without money to spend to try or just lazy! Thank you so much!
Thanks 🙏
I've been using a Gretsch 18" bass for years now. No muffling, Evans emad batter, Remo Ambassador front with 3" port. It's got more punch and tone than any bass drum in any size that I've owned. Miked it's a freakin' cannon. 😎 Abide
How are you tuning the reso head? Not sure if you mentioned that.
It has a lot to do with the room you play in and the part of the room you are in as well. You can actually move your set around and get different sounds from it. In the corner of a room seems to be a lot deeper and carry further. In a there is a lot you can do to make a smaller bass drum to sound different. It's the same way with car or home audio. You can get different sounds from the bass depending on where you place the subwoofer and the type of box it's in. Rather it be a sealed box or a ported or a passive radiator. You can do the same wit the bass drum by getting a open front head on it or sealed and by changing the muffling and tune.
I'll never understand why people put fucking pillows inside of a drum... why not just use an electric kit if you want something that sounds like ass?
I love this! I've been debating about making my next drum build around a 20'' or an 18" and I think you helped make up my mind. Of course, I'm also planning either a 24" or 26" kit as well.... That's some tasty playing there, too.
Love my 22x18 Pearl Mx's, I use Aquarian impact heads just tight enough to get the wrinkles out, a little more loose on the reso's. Talk about thud and attack!
Which he would stop playing the snare to really hear the bass.
Understanding that, @nelsontorres1694. It can be hard to isolate that bass sound with the snare going. We'll keep that in mind for future videos to showcase the bass more clearly. Thanks for the feedback!
cool! however, without a mic the 18 will be too soft in volume I fear when practicing with a band?
depends on the band and the room and the drum...played out for 4 years in an inde pop/rock/folk band with a 16" bass...a lot of times without a mic on it...currently have an 18" bass AQ2 set...with an Emad and ported reso it's a monster
I bought a used Tama Starclassic with 18 x 16, and it turned out to have this exact new head set-up installed, including velcro strips for the internal pillow. The crucial variables not mentioned here are: 1) lifting the 18" so the pedal strikes in the center, and (2) Power/volume loss in playing the 18" without a mic. Any drum can sound good in the hands of a good sound man, but I have felt that playing non-jazz gigs without a mic has required the 22", even without the pillow.
I'm running an 18x16 as well, and I'm definitely going to invest in the Evans pillow. I generally prefer a jazz tuning, but sometimes the music doesn't call for that.
That calftone tuned low is perfect. It has low end, fullness, and PUNCH. That emad with all that muffling gets you attack with nothing else, sounds like you're striking cardboard
Thanks I bought an 18” Questlove (didn’t know who he was at the time) set from a professional seasoned musician drummer here in Hawaii. My drummer loved the set. I like the sound of the loosened heads mod. Will you lose volume from loosening the heads?
Well done!!
If you are playing classic rock LIVE, good luck getting a nice deep sound from an 18" or even 20" bass drum.
I just love 18x14. Especially when recording. Big bass drums are fun, but sold my big ones, since I have no storage space from them(yes they even take a lots of storage space!)
Sounded better IMHO before you moved the mic into the drum. Gave the sound some length. With other instruments the mic-inside variant would sound completely dead. If the tone is too long it can be shortened in post, but that's better than trying to actually ADD tone (I wouldn't, surely there are limits). Anyway YMMV and thx for the comparison!
A couple of fun experiments (mech & tech)
Try to centre beater on batter to even out asymmetric ring-dampening ~might (depending on skin and shell speed), help fatten the "Whump".
Toy with (for eg a Beta 52) presenting cross angle in rev port to shell inner on an angle incident to reflect axis to where beater falls; should leave Whump unaffected (may slightly lighten), increase and shorten Thump, and definitely help find some bite in in the Snap of lack-luster kicks
:) ....... maybe ;)
Very helpfull! Thanks bro 👍🏾
Yo this video was super helpful. I have an 18” kick and wanted to make it sound exactly like this. Thank you brotha
Using a kick riser to hit the centre helps also
If ya can't make an 18 punch and sing you shouldn't be a drummer
Where's my guy with the time stamps? 22 vs fully modded 18 seems very similar. 18 is toight
I use a pair of 20” Yamaha Stage Custom kicks. They sound like cannons. No muffling needed; they are perfect rock bass drums. But they are NOT perfect jazz drums. They work, but are less than ideal. In my future will be an 18” for that purpose.
Those 20'' Yamaha Stage Customs do pack a punch! An 18'' for jazz sounds like a perfect addition to your arsenal. Excited for you to explore that territory.
Rather than (relatively) deep 18" I'd take a shallow (12-14") 20", I think it'd be ideal -- lower fundamental with a shorter sustain.
did all this with a fiberskin head on the front and a kick port. it's really suprising how low an 18 will go.
sounds close to me
Good video
Thanks 🙏
Thank you!!! This is exactly what I needed.
I think pointing the kick at the wall so close like that is making the whole mix sound muddy. Could just be my ears bu it all seems muffly and muddy.
Very good point
Great Video. I have an 18" bass drum that I use for everything. I love it. ❤
What is that headphone cable extender
No matter how hard you try, you still cannot duplicate the low thump of a 22" or 24" bass drum with a 20" or smaller.
I have a doubt! I think the skin you used was Evans BD18 EMAD CLEAR, right?
I'm here thinking that the 18" Evans BD18EMAD 2 Clear might sound even better, would it?
Is that a 14 inch pork pie beechwood snare I see?
the audio quality has a lot of room echo.
On your next video explain how to make a 12” subwoofer sound like an 18” 😂
I’m considering a 16” bass drum after seeing this. There’s a Ludwig complete set for $250 used in my area I think I’m going to try it out. Classical music doesn’t need crazy bass and I think would be good to accompany acoustic instruments
This is incredible! how haven't I found this channel before 👀
Thank you dude, thanks for joining us for the ride 😀🥁
Great video, thanks
I think you need good technique to make an 18 work. If you leave the beater on the head then you might run into some problems with the drum losing low end. You have to play off the head to achieve good attack and enough low end to use it.
Great comparison video! How do you think the 18 would sound if you added a KickPort?
My 18, I put Evans calftone on the reso with port hole, and aquarian super kick 2. With pillows. It's great..
@@Bm_bm. Did you put an actual kickport in the hole, or do you just have a Hole cut in the head?
@@NikkiNexo777 oh sorry no, a Kick pot. Is one Of those deper black things? Just a hole but. With a stick on strengthener ring 👌🏻
@@Bm_bm. gotcha. Understood.
Well I’m sold, plus it looks cooler in my opinion an if you drive a small saloon car like I do 18” probably your only option 😂
Jazz bass drums back in the big band era used to be much larger: often converted 28" marching basses. As the cymbals became more of the sound, and as musicians started having to use their own cars or the subway, the smaller bass became a thing. Small clubs aren't going to fit a 22x18 without some compromise.
High, low, and medium tuning will project by Diameter and depth. Each will have it's own Sweet Spot. You will know the pitch you want when you hear it.....
can you do review 22x20
The only other thing maybe you could have tried was adding a "Kick Port" to your porthole. I use one on my 18" as well as my 22" and it helps to draw all that low end into the kick mic.
This was very interesting, thank you. What I’ve learnt, is that I did every right instinctively (although not changed heads), but it’s good to know I am not missing anything.
I’d also add, a heavy, soft beater and raising the drum of the ground a touch makes a difference. I actually have a 16” Sonor AQX, so even smaller, but I have got a rock sound out of it after some trial an error. I actually think it sounds cleaner and punchier.
It does depend on the sound you’re going for though, for a tight, but fairly big modem prog sound this has worked just fine. You wouldn’t get a Bonham sound though, so there are limitations. The comparison I draw, is with speaker cabinets when recording guitar. Sometimes guitarists like to use a tweed amp for recording because they break up beautifully at a lower volume. However, they have 8” speakers, sometimes even 6” and they have what is sometimes referred to as a smaller ‘sound stage’. What I often do is reamp the sound through a Marshall 4X12, which has 12” speakers. Or, I might use an IR. You get the same character, but it just sounds bigger. It’s a very hard thing to achieve Amy other way; you can use saturation and reverb to be close to that larger than life sound.
In summary I guess this works fine the majority of the time and it can even sound better in a lot of cases, but occasionally one needs a monster drum for a monster sound.
(Of course you can go too far, a 24” kick needs a heavy foot to drive it)
Cheers again guys, useful experiment. And if anyone is after something like this now, check out there Sonor AQX, great value. Paid about just over £400 new and I sold the snare straight up.
I couldn’t figure out how Phil Collins lower rack toms were able to be so low until I realized he was using an 18” bass drum.
Yup, had already made these choices prior to watchin the vid for my 18". Think I'm on to something, 😉
I love my Catalina Club 18" and I play a lot of fast punk stuff which isn't normal at this size, but it sounds SICK and feels tremendous!
For my taste that low calftone tuning sounds best. Not a rock sound, but it would work for hip-hop, drum'n'bass and other urban styles.
I definitely still hear a difference...but it's not really pitch, or even low end, it's more depth, which can be a good thing, or SOMETIMES, not a good thing. Even for full bands, I've sat in on kicks, that are 16" and 18" depths... and I typically prefer shallower depths, just sits better in the mix, and it doesn't feel like I have to control the kick as much!
18 is a floor tom size. 22 bd all the way, hell gimme a 24 lol
I wish i never sold my 26"
Great job. Empolying some kind of bass drum lifter to the 18 would have been nice as a final sonic comparison.
I got a maple TAMA 20x10, I also have a 24 and a 22, and I haven’t been playing those at all since I got the 20. Something about that smaller size just feels and sounds so good
❤️ this! Turned that lil baby into a real certified bass drum! ✅ Heads, Tunning, Dampening, Mic Placement, Beater Position #Sweet 💯 #MacanaRoxie
Yeah, no shit. Muffle it, tune it lower and stick an mic on it. Who'd have thunk it?!
good stuff
Thanks
22 still sounded better
20 inch is the PERFECT drum.
Put a kickport in there, and you'll really get close to a 22" kick sound.
how? sell it off and get a 28”
Can you make a 14 inch floor Tom sound like a 16 inch floor Tom?
I have a Tama Silverstar bop kit which I use for all my gigs, not just jazz or small venues, but I've never been satisfied with the sound I get when I do the occasional outdoor festival gig, to the point where I considered buying a rock kit with a 22" or 24" kick drum. I had one of those outdoor gigs last night, so in preparation I used the tips in this video. I followed the tuning exactly and even bought an Evans EQ Pillow. The only difference is my batter head is a coated Remo PowerStroke 3. My kick drum sounded awesome! Now I realize mic choice/placement and sound system attributes have a lot to do with it, but from my vantage point behind the drums I was thrilled with the punch and tone I heard. I'm glad I didn't buy that second kit as my bop kit is to easy to transport and fits nicely in my Honda Civic.
This is awesome!! Glad we could help, hope you enjoyed the gig 😎
The pillow ruined it. You had it before that went inside.
My new 18 inch is flat on the ground but the pedal beater doesn't hit flush. Its at a slight angle and the middle to top make contact with the head. Any tips to make it hit flush? Thanks!
A bass drum rider should do the trick. It did for my 18x14.
@@1101YANK1011 do you have a link? Im not sure a major adjustment is needed thanks sir.
Mine doesn't hit flush with the Evans bass drum riser. I think some different beaters with an extension would do it. I think my drum sounds great though
Excellent post! Well recorded, great pace, super informative. Well done!
Thanks for the kind words! If well-recorded informative content is what you're after, our site is rich with exclusive lessons: welcome.drum.dog 🎥
Thanks a bunch!… It was exactly what I needed to decide about the next set I am going to get.
An 18" kick is punchier than a 22'' in the first place. Thanks. Love your channel.
Yes! Thank you!
Thank you for the comparison at the end, very helpful!
Something not mentioned here is a riser. Not sure this drum needed it, but striking the drum in the center of the head brings out more of the fundamental pitch of the drumhead.
…and also not burying the beater, playing off the head. Burying the beater kills all the low end.
Every bass drum sounds better when you let the beater rebound fully off the head imo.
Wow tuning gets you 75% of the way.
Is it advisable to use an elevator for the 18?
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
What pedal and beater ??
i watched tons of videos about how to tune my kick, and now i got a tone which isnt that bad. I still have an annoying dry sound, if you have any solutions, please
Difficult to say without hearing it, but if it's too dead/dry, try tweaking up the resonant head a little 🙂
@@drumdog i'll try it, thanks