Ep. 23 How to Tune a Bass Drum For Jazz
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
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Where modern rock bass drum sounds tend to be short and punchy and a lot of low end, jazz bass drum sounds have a bit more tonal presence with a warm sustain that lasts a bit longer. In the absence of a felt strip or internal muffling (which aren't 100% necessary) here are the methods we'd recommend for achieving a variety of sounds.
As with our previous episode, we’ve introduced an AKG D112 as a close mic on the resonant side of the drum to help illustrate the bass frequency presence. Each demo is A/B’d with just the C414 and then with the addition of the D112.
Sound Comparison
6:16 :: Wide Open - Low Reso / Higher Batter
9:43 :: Batter Side External Muffling (controlling overtones)
13:33 :: 1/4 Turn Increase in Reso Tension
15:33 :: Additional 1/4 Turn Increase on Reso Tension
18:54 :: Reso Side External Muffling
20:37 :: Removal of all muffling
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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These videos make me feel like I owe you money.
Absolutely, so thankful for this amazing channel! :D
Me too
you guys should do an april fools video where you tune an electronic set. lol.
Where's my gaffa?
Been looking for a proper bop tuning video for a long time. Some channels are so general with their methods. I appreciate you showing us as if we're in the room. I know exactly what to listen for.
I’ve heard initially the switch to 18” was due to the fact that it could fit in a taxis trunk much easier
True but 18"s are also better fitted to small venues. A lot of drummers in NYC play a 16" now actually.
I bought a gretsch USA bop kit with 14x18 kick. When it came time to tune it I thought well let's start low an see what happens.One of the biggest surprise to me is the range these things will go.I could very well play jazz,country,blues,or even smooth rock depending how I tune it.This is a very versatile drum.On the way home from the store I kinda thought I should have went with the 14x20.I wouldn't trade this little 14x18 for nothing. Man they sound great.thanks again guys,great video.
Great work! I love the versatility of the 18” for not only a great floor tom, but for this application as well.
I use a converted 16” floor with a riser kit as a “foot tom” for small, intimate gigs and it too is wide open.
Tuning is everything and this little boomer is perfect for pretty much anywhere a small kit is needed.
I have a small Kickport for toms on the front reso to even out the tone. Nothing else is needed.
Youse guys do great stuff here. Keep up the good work.
Just picked up a used Sonor 'Bop' kit with a 16 x 18" bass drum. Remo Fiberskyn FA (Ambassador wt) resonant head, Remo Powerstroke F3 coated batter head. Then resonant side head is tuned just a bit higher than the batter head. I have a bass pedal riser installed to allow for the beater to strike the batter head dead center. No additional muffling on either head, no mic port cut into the resonant head. That combination results in a 'perfect' balance of punch and resonance and is well suited for the intended application of the kit (jazz, small venues). Last thing I want for that application is too much sustain and 'ring', and I play the bass drum lightly for jazz and church praise band settings. Basically the bass drum was good 'right out of the box' with just a slight amount of tweaking to get the sound I want. Good informative video.
For the front head, in an emergency a small sandbag (used as weight in old theaters and studios to keep mic stands from falling over ) held down by a weight (mic stand base) or theater weight..... I saw back in the 50's and 60's they would do something with newspaper and the moleskin patch..... They didn't have clear heads back then but you could see the newspaper up against the head. My guess, it was crumpled up....no higher than the bottom 1/3 of the drum. The drum would be tuned for tone... when hit the newspaper flies away from the head a little, the settles back down to muffle it... the drums were not miked and were loud as heck..... the best sound I have ever gotten was with a felt strip on the front, moleskin or homemade pad on the batter head. Thanks for the video
Great video. I use coated G1s front and back on my 18x14 wide open with no muffling. It's fun to mess around with the tuning and see what's possible. Perfect jazz bop sound! Keeping it simple is a good way to go.
Yessss! So tired of the “snap flap” tones everyone has been about lately. Thanks
I recently got a Artstar Cordia 80's kit. I changed 35 year old heads, put an Emad on, and kept it empty, as usual. Geez, talk about "Lucky find" I came straight to this vid as I've been using wide open bass drums for years. Imo, you have the best ear on TH-cam
Absolutely awesome descriptions and useful details. I am an avid follower. One thing that surprised me about this vid is that you didn't cover a very common fundamental tool applicable to 18" kicks - the use of a riser to allow the beater to get more power and tone by hitting more near the center. Otherwise, hats off for a job done excellently.
Thanks! That’s really a personal preference sort of thing (the use of a riser). I love using one but I recognize that not everyone has one. I use it more for getting drum up off the ground a bit but it started with experimenting with a 16” floor tom conversion that will be featured in a future episode. I rarely see my favorite jazz drummers player with lifts and their beaters are almost always off center as you see here. As Cody mentioned in a recent comment, it’s about a preference for the presence of certain overtones and how much punch your looking for. The decision here was intentional, which is really the point- to experiment and find what works for you and get a better understanding of what you can expect from a given setup and know how/when to make use of that. Cheers! -Ben
Thanks very much! And don't worry, we're gonna have a BD lift video in the future. I didn't want to go beyond the drum's sound alone in this episode since not everyone has a lift. I personally like the 18" without it when tuned this way - I came up associating the sound of 18" drums with a warmer, open sound a la Elvin, Tony etc. and figured I should set things up they way they did (though based on what I've seen/heard, Elvin would have put Moleskin where the beater strikes the head, and he was partial to wooden beaters hahaha) :) Ben actually uses a lift on his 22" sometimes for the very effect you're describing, and it does have a pretty big effect on the punch and power! -Cody
hitting the center is not essential, it might even choke the sound a bit, if you want a lot of tone and sustain (think of a timpani, these aren't played in the center). but more importantly, it's hard to put a towel between the pedal and the head, which is extremely common (and important) in jazz setups
@@SoundsLikeADrum As a follow up to that insight, I find it impossible to get my 18" Catalina club setup with the riser that came with it, which is the L-angle clamp like the one made by Gibraltar. It seems like I would need the spurs set to 2X maximum extension to get the beater to strike evenly. Any experimenting with the location of the foot pedal results in a) chain striking the hoop b) beater hitting nothing.
@@alistairs8495 This is a problem a lot of people face with that Gibraltar riser(not familiar with the Catalina one but assume it's similar from what you're saying). The solution is to put about a 1/2" plastic cylinder between the two pieces of metal where you see the wingnuts. So you would have two spacers for each wingnut. Essentially you're bringing the plate where the pedal attachment is closer to you ( further from the hoop)so there is room for the beater to move without rubbing the bass drum hoop. My friend cut two pieces of plastic (PVC) pipe or something that looks like that. It is black in colour and has a hole in the center large enough for the rod that holds the riser together. They sort of look like a skateboard truck bushing If you know a Skateboarder that could show you what one looks like. I also bought a bolt to replace the wingnuts because you probably know they tend to slip because they don't stay fastened tight and suddenly your riser is way lower.
Sorry if this sounds confusing. Hard to describe. A photo would be more self explanatory but I don't think I can post one in comments. I've been using the Gibraltar riser with this hack for quite some time now. I wonder if the Mapex riser is any better or if it has the same problem.
Actually, what I heard very long ago is that 18" bass drums became a thing with Elvin because...well, portability. It fit in the backseat. :) But the sound he got!!! I remember when I first heard him live back in 1973 when I was in college. His wife, Keiko, would do his mic checks. I couldn't believe how that tiny woman could stomp that thing. I think she did that for two reasons; to give the sound techs the max volume to set input levels and to make sure that the drum was stable (they drove these long, thick nails in front of the drum to keep it from creeping...Gretsch spurs just didn't cut it for that kind of physical punishment). This was a loud friggin' band (Ryo Kawasaki and another guitarist with an upright bass player!). But man, the energy and joy that Elvin put into his playing. That 18 held it's own throughout.
Great job man..you dig!!!!
My ideal sound is somewhere in between bop and boomy, probably a 20" right in the middle of the two guides you have haha.
We'll be doing a video with Cody's 20" Gretsch Round Badge bass drum in the future and will likely be dialing it in for that particular middle ground. Cheers! -Ben
Mmmmf. Thanks dudes!
chickenbeforeegg if the sound your looking for is both bop and boom (and you’re possibly looking for a new kit) you might want to check out the Tama Fat Spruce kit. That kit had to have the most insane sounding 20” kicks I have ever heard. The bass was a bit bigger than I wanted to play on a regular basis, so I went with my Canopus kit (but based on the bass drum, it was a hard decision let me tell you). Hope this helps you out.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I'm really curious on how the huge open sound Keith Carlock gets. Sounds close early on the video
Hey there! I can say having heard it in person that the early wide-open sound in this video is more or less what he does, but with a 20" drum instead of an 18" - That takes it to a whole other level :) Also he seems partial to a clear batter and coated or black reso (both in his Remo days and now with Evans). The clear batter really adds a lot of overtone and wildness to the sound. - Cody
Years ago, in an interview in Modern Drummer, one of the postwar jazz drummers (I can't recall the name) stated one reason he started using a smaller bass drum was because he played almost totally in clubs in New York and had to get his whole kit in a cab to go to jobs, which he couldn't do with a large bass drum. He also stated he had to transport and set up his drums himself, so he wanted to have a small kit for that reason, too. Necessity is the mother of invention.
I recall Elvin saying something along those lines. Dave Tough was the guy Gretsch made a 20” for. The idea went from there.
Great video! Thanks a bunch. That nails it for me. I have a 20" vintage Gretsch kit and struggling with getting the balance for good tone and moderate muffling. I'll try this method and have high hopes.
Another great video guys. I play an 18” maple Canopus bass drum so it was particularly relevant for me. The only thing I might add to your brilliant demonstration, was that different head and beater choices as well as varying the impact area of the beater can also have a profound implications for the tone your drum produces. This video, I believe, really focused on the classic open bop sound (of which I also play most often). As you noted, however, the 18” kick can be played on many different situations with some knowledgeable alterations and developed technique. Play around with your drum and find out just what it can and can’t do, you might be surprised how big, and yet tight, a 18” kick can sound. Thanks as always for the great information.
Thank you guys!! These videos are consistently informative, practical and clear - what an amazing resource!
Great episode! With this and the ‘tom tuning for jazz’ episode, anyone can have a classic Blue Note sound going in no time. I dig a 12/14/18 for bop with single ply coated heads everywhere (batters and resos on toms AND bass). Felt strip on bass reso, Vintage Bomber beater, and of course everything tuned up to bop range. For me, it’s one of the most enjoyable setups - it’s responsive, articulate, musical. It’s also relaxed - no frills, no fuss, just a few drums, hats, and a ride. The compact layout, the contrast of the snare drum and tuned-up toms/bass, the interplay of the drums... Nothing makes me feel more expressive and ‘in the moment’ on the drums than a well tuned bop kit. Makes me wanna play just talking about it!
Evans Calftones are hard to beat for a natural sound, they’re wonderful heads for jazz and more. Aquarian Texture Coated or Modern Vintage are very nice for jazz as well, they have a little extra sumpin sumpin.
I remember hearing that one of the reasons for the 18" bass drums, was being able to more easily fit in a taxi cab way back in the day.
Been three years, but it came up, so I went back and watched this informative video for help. Good job! Your room was so live then. You guys have come a long way in many areas of your production. Oh! That’s me saying great work, guys!! 🪄💫
Certainly, one of the better, most informative video's on tuning for jazz etc. I particularly liked the towel stuffed using the pedal, & the tightening of the front head for controlling resonance. I use a 20" but I think the principals still apply. I tried a towel on a 16" that I was trying out, & it's effect was quite a bit less dynamic than on the 20". Years ago I got the 20" as it seemed like you could play just about any style with it. Thanks for the great video!
As my gigging set, I use a 2 piece kit, with a couple of cymbals and a set of hats. No toms. My kick drum is a Sonor Force 2007 birch shell that is 18x17.5. I keep the kick wide open, unported, using a Powerstroke 3 ebony, and a Powerstroke 3 clear. I tune it a full turn above wrinkles on the batter, and a full turn and a half above wrinkles on reso side. The result is an 18" that sounds and has a low end as big as a 20" , with just enough punch and tonality without chocking the resonance. I enjoy the Remo heads, but I think i may switch over to the Evans equivalent with the EQ4's. I'm sure I'll get an even better sound out of the shell because of the 360 technology. Thanks for the superb demo guys . Keep up the great work !
Great experimenting! I have an 18 x 12 Ludwig Classic Maple kick. I currently have a coated PS3 on batter and a Remo Skyntone on the reso with a 3" felt. There is no porting and I threw a t-shirt in the drum for extra control of overtones. I can tilt the drum to move the t-shirt to the reso or batter to taste....typically the batter.; it usually stays in place. I also have an assortment of bass drum heads from the constant experimenting. Each head has its own voice. No right or wrong, just personal preference. Weather/barometric pressure also will impact how loose or tight I tune the heads. Your videos and tuning suggestions are great! Thanks!
I've cranked by bass up quite a bit sometimes and I love that feel and sound I get. It's different but I love it. Very inspiring!
Well done, trying to dampen any drum but bass drum especially without resorting to “opening it up” is an art form in itself. You really nailed it. I use an old leather wallet behind the pedal instead of a towel and some plasticine in the crack between head and rim on the front head. It only took me 20 years to sus it out though. Well done for sharing, brilliant video.
Awesome. Looking forward to the 24” bass drum video. I have a 24 x14 that sounds great, intrigued to see how you deal with the 24” drum.
From what I have read, another reasons smaller bass drums were used at the advent of the New York City Bebop scene is because drummers could not fit big bass drums in the taxi cabs. Gretsch, located in Brooklyn, NY, is reputedly the first company to make an 18" bass drum in order to remedy this problem. Subsequently, the 18" bass drum became the "sound" of bebop.
Yeah! I’ve heard Elvin and Roy both say that. -Cody
This was the video that I’ve been missing and waiting for... and I didn’t even know it.
You’ve shown us over and over that if we will just take the time and methodically adjust things gradually, we’d all learn and become experts... but sadly, we mostly just try one or two things and then wonder: hmmm... how can I get that sound ??? But, it’s not as much fun to experiment on your own. You have a great team. All the best !!!
Thanks so much for all of the great content. 🤩🌮
I made my 16" floor tom into a small bass drum once, kept it kind of wide open, only a small towel inside leaning slightly on both heads. It surely was a fun experience switching, from a 22". It made me learn not to bury the beater, because otherwise it would just sound like crap. I play off the head all the time now, makes the bass drum sounds a lot better and fuller. Even on a 24" that I`m using right now. Highly recommending mixing it up once in a while and using a small bass drum, just for the fun of it!
For the front head i use a chamois leather cloth clipped to the rim with a binder clip. Works like a dream
I have a Yamaha Stage Custom 20” bass drum (two of ‘em in fact). What I’ve figured out for a good ‘jazz’ tuning in a small combo context: tune it to whatever pitch you want on the batter side (I use clear Ambassadors). Then tune the reso head to support that. Now the kicker: do not muffle the drum itself. Instead, muffle the beater! I hang a 3/8” thick felt rectangle, 3” wide by 4” long, over the beater impact area. A string supported at two points on the hoop. It allows easy ‘feathering’ when you desire that, and can just be flipped up and off the head (rests on the shell) when you desire more volume and/or impact.
Really cool video. Just bought my first 18 inch bass drum. Looking forward to trying out some tunings and different heads. Thanks a lot.
That is one beautiful bass drum. May have to rewrap mine in black sparkle.
I just bought a Pearl bebop kit and I,m here to decide how to set up the bass drum! These drums come with a mini pillow and I put it in there! I,ll just try it with the pillow.
the front head sounds amazing to my ears
I like the towel burrito trick.
For res-side, I like to take a towel or a t-shirt, and drape that overtop the head. If you use masking tape, you can gauge how much the fabric overhangs over the head. Masking tape doesn't leave any residue on my drum's finish either (not sure if that's true for all finishes). It's not exactly visually subtle, but it sounds pretty good most of the time, if you want muffling that kinda breathes with the head a little bit.
Nice video. Very informative. Thank You for sharing.
My 18" Jazz bass drum tuning recipe. Use a Remo Coated Powerstroke 3 as batter head. Tune it to medium tension until it sings. Out in front use a Remo Smooth White Ambassador. Place a felt strip underneath to include about 1/3 of the diameter of the drum. Tune the resonate head slightly tighter than the batter. Sit back and savor the wonderful sound :)
What an awesome trick and nice sound with the towel! Thank you!
Anyone wishing to hear a great sounding wide open bass drum sound check out Idris Muhammad (Leo Morris) he did a lot of work with Lou Donaldson....
Absolutely! All that transitional Blue Note stuff he did is just so good, and that kick sound is a big part of it. Nice mention.
I feel burying the beater can sound great if it's done right and with the right tuning. It shifts the pitch and raises some attention as it has a lot of impact if done in the right place...
It would be very valuable to have a video (or maybe even a couple of them?) specifically on '50s-'60s pop/rock tunings/setups using 14"-deep bass drums: 22", ideally 24" too, maybe even 20" as well.
I used to use a 18" floor tom as a bass drum. I cut down the beaterhead by half and
drilled the rim so i could use a bass drum pedal with bolts that ingauged with it.
I also cut down the beater length. That gave me a decent sound i liked. Not an easy thing to
get a case for.Thanks for the great ideas.get
Just wanted to say I enjoy your video's so much. Very relaxed and good info. Very enjoyable.
Thanks so much! Lots more available via our Patreon if you're interested. Cheers! -Ben
Sound quality is fantastic on your vids!
as a cellist/guitarist/bassist and studio owner, this is super interesting and useful for me. thanks!!
Perfect! We're really glad to hear that this stuff is helping non-drummers too - it's really great to hear :) -Cody
Awesome work gentlemen, you have answered so many questions I've had that no one else could answer. You guys unlocked all the sounds I've been searching for with my 12 14 20 ludwig club date. After your next bass drum video could you show us the ludwig Acrolite? I know it's a simplified Supraphonic, but she still has her own character and I would love to see you put it though it's paces.
Thanks so much! Glad to hear that this has been valuable to you. An Acrolite video is definitely in the queue for the future. It’s one of my favorite snare drums. Cheers! -Ben
Ian Isaacs I love the Acro and the Supraphonic! They are both amazing drums!
Thank you greaty, I was blessed enough get a 1966 acro today from my dad! Time to hot-rod it with Evans 56 over a snare side 300 acompanied by a puresound super 30.
@@userplayeraccount have never been disapointed with any of my friends supras and the one friend with an acrolite (1982) was kind enough to let me take it home for a few weeks and I fell in love.
Ian Isaacs that sounds great! I'm looking for a Keystone Acrolite at the moment.
I play a Tama 18/18 EQ2 batter and EQ1 reason. With no mounts and on port hole and no blanket. In metal bands. I love the punch of the 18. And as it's smaller it's not as deep but on over tones and no chocking. I used a maple beater. People look at it like its not ment to be in metal and tell they hear it.
I have two bass drums.
A ported 22x18 with muffling inside, and a 18x16 that has both heads with no port or muffling of any kind.
Neither one works well set up like the other.
I prefer playing the 18" and I use both a riser and a wooden beater.
When I listen to recordings I make, I just love the sound of the 18".
If I could only have one bass drum, it would be a 20x14.
Although I'm not a fan of 18" bass drums ( I prefer 20") I understand why city players using cabs like them. That being said you did a great job tuning and getting the most out of it. Well done!
+soundslikeadrum *I transplanted jazz kick tuning strategy to a 22" x 18"* (viz., a TAMA®/Hoshino® IMB22E New Imperialstar™ poplarbuilt) using an Evans®/D'Addario® BD22EMADHW batter with the thick edge foam, a Remo® ES-1022-00 resonant (in TAMA/Hoshino BH22B form), no stuffing, and a wood riser for the bottom two batter lugs (to unload the rear counterhoop to enable usable sustain). I normally shoot for the shell's Helmholtz frequency when tensioning the batter, then tension the resonant for best fundamental projection.
love the end result.
how come this channel hasn't had a million subscribers yet?
We're growing pretty quickly but we also rely on viewers like yourself to help us spread the word. Cheers! -Ben
Very good as always!
Learned a lot. Thanks
I use a Yamaha birch bop kit with an 18" kick drum for acoustic blended worship stuff! I also use a Tee shirt muffler made with a cardboard box for both my 16'' converted floor tom AND my 18''
Nice! We're looking forward to the 16" bass drum video! -Ben
DWmusic I assume your using the Stage Custom series drums? They are really pretty nice drums (especially for the price). How do you deal with the tubby-ness of the 6 lug bass drum? That was my only real complaint of that kit; not being able to get the sound really tight when I needed it to be. If however, you’re using the Live Custom series drums, disregard my question (as those kicks have 8 lugs). Thanks.
Raymond- the cool thing about those 6-lug kicks is being able to take them a bit lower due to the tension distribution. Getting the right head combination on there (and additional muffling if necessary) can certainly help to tighten up the response. -Ben
Sounds Like A Drum thanks for the follow up. I was not unhappy with the Yamaha just not satisfied for everything I needed it to do. I am a big Stage Custom cheerleader. The sound I am getting from Canopus drums, however, is all I ever wanted and more. Thanks for helping me get it.
Raymond Aucoin At church I found some gold duct tape and some paper towels, so I folded up the paper towels in short rectangular squares inside the duct tape, and then put 3 of those and the top and bottom of the batter head, and added the 3rd on the right side of the head. This gives me a more defined but still fairly open sound!
Coated beater side heads for an open sound with more control plus a fluffy wool or felt for punch!
Cool! I have a 16", I love it! Great episode S.L.A.D!
Nice! Looking forward to doing a video on 16” bass drums. Cheers! -Ben
Fantastic bro. Thanks!
It's wild how different the sound is between ear-level and in front. Ultimately, you want it to sound good out front. But there are many frames of reference that I feel are important. You want it to sound good enough from the throne that you are comfortable/inspired. You want your gear to sound good to your bandmates to support them in making music. You want it to sound good to those close by. You might want it to sound good to those 30 feet away. You can't tune for the optimal sound for every frame. Which one is most important? Tough question to me!
When you realise you're at the gig and you left your towel burrito in the shed... :'(
Use an actual burrito :-)
This was really interesting. It left me wondering how much of a difference it would make if you raise the bass drum so that the beater strikes the head closer to the center... I've seen a couple of people do this but wasn't really listening closely for a difference.
MMW is great, I saw them twice in the late 90s and early 2000s
I have a 28 inch bass drum. Whenever I’ve tried to play it with a small group the immediate reaction is ‘that’s too loud!’ This is *before* I’ve played the thing. It has calf heads and is very mellow. I have an 18” with modern heads which is definitely louder and has more punch. It doesn’t matter. - ‘Big’ is ‘Loud’. One bass player said ‘you aren’t playing that on stage’ why? ‘There isn’t room, I’ll have to stand in the wings!’ I have had mo much negativity from the other band members with a 28. I’m sure a heavy metal band would love it, because they want ‘Big’ and ‘Loud’ - even though it is completely the wrong sound. I just wonder whether the drummers in the 40s had a similar experience, of other musicians’ perceptions and wanting the drummer quiet and out of the way at the back?
My bass drum beater keeps bouncing off head making a double stroke. Any tips to reduce this?
Another wonderful set of informative tools and processes thank you.. Where were you when I was a teenager?
Thank you sir.
I have owned 4 different 24” bass drums and also a 26” and I have never liked having a port in the resonant heads of big bass drums. I find the drums really sing with un-ported resonant heads.
great video!
It's easy. Tune the batter high and reso a bit higher. It's a technique which was used much in the rock era during the 70's, big drums tuned high.
I’ve been thinking about getting a really slim bass drum for low volume, un-miced, or percussion setups. Like 8 inches. Liberty has a 18x8. Will I get a nice low tone from such a small drum or should I look for bigger diameter?
How does depth affect tone?
Hey there! I’m looking forward to addressing this more deeply in a future video but the short answer is that there’s kind of a range of depths relative to the diameter of the drum that will be enough to capture and project the frequencies that a given diameter wants to generate, and I’d say if you want an 18” to project much low end I’d probably not thinner than 10” depth, maybe even 12”. It also depends on the room you’re in too. If you do get one let us know how it goes!!! :) -Cody
Exelent!!!!👏👏👏👏👏👏
The key here is how a bass drum is used in jazz music. It is different from how it is used in rock and pop, or even fusion. It is used as an expressive musical instrument, mostly in partnership with ghost notes on the snare. In this case it needs to sound high and resonant, like a large floor tom would. There is no use for towels, felt strips or other damping. There should be no hole in the resonant head and nothing inside the drum. the 14X18 is perfect for this usage, and the New York taxi thing is true, but just an aside from the musical importance.
QUESTION: What’s your take on the type of shoes to wear so it’s more of a tool helping tune up an aspect of your approach? Thinking in terms of things like weight, heel material and traction quality on pedals, insole, etc. I’ve gone back and forth on if focusing on this or not is a thing - however right now I’m playing more shows with expected dress codes so dress shoes are getting in the way of my kick use. The old shoe question goes back to how we can hear players who just love playing bare foot and so forth. For anyone reading, what works for you? Thanks all and drum on! 🎵🎵
I wear sandals
I know this is 5 years old, but look up jazz shoes. Slip on leather sock with a tiny heel, look close enough to jazz shoes they shouldn't be a problem.
Now you make me want to use non-muffled heads.
Hi I really like your videos.
I think 18" drums should be elevated in the batter side, so your beater strikes more towards the center. My Tama Starclassic bop set has a special hoop that does that, but you can buy lifts from Gibraltar and many others. The sound of a bass drum is much fuller and deeper when hit in the center.
Do you have a riser under that kick pedal? My bop kit has a 14" x 18" bass drum with a riser and I'm wondering if I should take it off. The beater is hitting dead center and I think the drum would sound better if it hit a little higher..
Why not try changing beaters. I have had success using the wooly beater on my 22" bass drum in museum type environments. The rolled towel trick works well. Thanks.
Would make a big difference centering the Beater? I use a 2in. riser on mine......and Center my Beater......
I prefer higher tension on both reso and batter side with minimal or no muffling. I think it captures the dynamic of the drum better. Plus, when you're standing back from the drum you get the full sound of it. You can't really hear the full sound of the drum when you're behind the kit. Also, thank you for using a no hole reso head.
Is medeski martin and wood not jazz??
I've gravitated towards 20x14. It's in the middle. Next kit will likely have both 18 & 20. No porting.
I'd like to know how felt strips (or other muffling tools) affect the sound and feel of 18" or 20" bass drum. I hope you make the video someday.
We may get into that in the future from a sonic perspective, though we can only describe what it feels like to us. Your best bet would to be to do some experimenting on your own with your tuning preferences and pedal settings so you can get a true feel for how a felt strip affects the performance. Cheers! -Ben
Absolutely! It'll probably be with my 20" 60's Gretsch - I use felt on the reso and the drum still has the adjustable Pratt felt strip muffler on the batter side! That's gonna be a fun one :) I will say that with smaller kicks like that, less muffling is definitely the way to go. It's easy to kill their tone. Cheers! - Cody
Honestly I wouldn’t worry about the width too much. If you like the sound you’re good to go, if it feels too muffled to you, maybe take some off. I use something between 3-4” width for any sized drum and vary how close to center or edge I place it (center is most muffled, edge least). - Cody
Looks like the beater head his hitting higher up than the center of the head. Thus, you get different overtones. Isn't this smaller kick intended to be on a riser so the ball hits center of head? Any reason not to do so? Thanks!
The setup was chosen in order to produce the desired sound and feel. Hitting drum at this tuning in the center will produce a different sound and feel. We've compared bass drum strike zones as well as the use of lifts in the past but, suffice to say- your beater doesn't need to hit the center of the drum and your drum doesn't necessarily have to be on a lift.
I do like your videos, very informative and idea-giving - just 1 little critique : use a near microphone to improve the sound of your voice. As it is now, it sounds absolutely middy (like from a tin can, and *yes* I'm using a professional headset) ;-) - everything else is 👍
Thanks! You’re commenting on a video from our very first season- before we had any acoustic treatment in the room, so even though the narration microphone is actually a shotgun mic just out of frame, there was a ton of room sound. In the four years since, we’ve made significant upgrades to the space with quite a bit of acoustic treatment from our Production Partner, GIK Acoustics. We’re quite happy with the balance of sound now. Cheers!
@@SoundsLikeADrum 😂 ur right, too often I don't recognize video timestamps - now that you mentioned it : the sound IS extremely good in your videos "nowadays" ;-) - I promise to recognize timestamps and watch many more of your videos, as I really like the infos I'm getting from them 😍 - gtx from the Lake of Constance, Swiss German border, and should you ever be around, you'll be welcome for a stopover, free guest rooms, beer/wine/water in my house of course ✈
That MMW. Saw Billy Martin in Jersey a few months ago. Show was great. I used an 18” Catalina Club Gretsch. Its okay, but I do want a 20 x15 so I can get some more punch. Billy was using a 14” x? That night. Mark Guiliano (sp?) has been seen using a 14” as well.
“I was all about putting a pillow in there and pounding it out” 😉
I tune them by feel
Saves a lot of fuss
Gadd doesn’t change his tuning for jazz vs rock, and it sounds great
Oh my god it's here
I dig all the tones with D112 mic. This video doesn't help me squash my want for an 18" kick even though I don't play jazz.
First, thank you for the well done, and informative videos. I noticed that when you tighten the front head you tune in a circle, rather than criss-cross. Do you have an opinion as to whether there it makes a difference between doing it either way?
Hi, guys excellent channel and is perfect the microphone/sound configuration. I writing for asking if is possible make a video about Concert Tom Drum Kit. This is a topic with very little information online and less with a good sound quality.
Cheers !
You're in luck! We have one on the way that includes comparing them to the same drum with the resonant head installed! :) It'll be up in the next few weeks. -Cody
Another way to get rid of the overtones without muffling is: loosen up the two top lugs on the batter head.
What are you're thoughts on cutting down a bass drum's depth and what is the result of that? I have a 20" bass drum but it is quiet deep so big sound. I play jazz so wondered if I was to cut down the depth the tone would be better.
Hey there! I know this is something people do somewhat frequently with modern deeper bass drums to go for a more oldschool tone - It may get you what you want and it may not, so I'd probably point you toward finding a second bass drum that fits your needs better if you can. Making that drum shallower will improve the response and maybe make it feel jazzier to your ear, but once you cut it down you can't go back :) - Cody
Amazing vid! I just bought a bebop kit, and was looking online for tuning tips. This was the best one! Just one question: you use the resonance head to change the amount of sustain and overtones, but if you want to change the fundamental pitch, do you tighten of loosen the batter head?
Tune batter slightly lower 😊
I always intuitively thought that tightening the resonant head would lengthen the sustain. Guess I am wrong?
It’s a tricky thing but yeah, at a certain tension the bottom head no longer boosts the fundamental pitch and as you go tighter the drum chokes out. - Cody
I want to learn more about how port hole size and placement affects the sound of small and large bass drums at different tunings
That makes two of us :) I've only ever used a 5-6" offset port because that's what was available. I have seen people get great results with center ports too, though I got the impression that the reasoning for that had to do with mic placement - with a center-cut hole you can have a mic pointed directly at the location of beater strike without having to reach the mic all the way into the drum to get the angle you need to achieve that extra-punchy sound. Hope that helps a little! -Cody
Awesome. Thank you!
The final tuning probably would have made a good floor tom sound.
Would this work on a 20" for a fusion sound?
Yep!