Recovery From Narcissistic Personality Disorder | How Avoidant Personality Disorder Fits In
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2019
- This video attempts to answer the question: What are the challenges in the recovery process from narcissistic personality disorder? Are avoidant personality disorders symptoms part of the recovery?
The construct of narcissism is a personality trait that tends to be stable over time. Most of the time we think of narcissism as normal and adaptive. When the levels become elevated, they can become problematic (pathological narcissism). Narcissism is also associated with being low on the agreeableness trait in the five-factor model, so being disagreeable. There are two types of narcissism: grandiose narcissism (overt) and vulnerable narcissism (covert). Grandiose narcissism has characteristics like being dominant, having a sense of entitlement, being extroverted (so high on extraversion in the five-factor model), callousness, a sense of superiority, and a tendency to exploit other individuals (manipulative). Vulnerable narcissism has characteristics like being insecure, fearful, being sad, being introverted (low on extraversion in the five-factor model), having what's referred to as shame-proneness (tending to experience shame), being hypersensitive, angry, and aggressive. Sometimes when we talk about these two types of narcissism, the term narcissistic personality disorder gets mentioned, but narcissistic personality disorder is different than grandiose or vulnerable narcissism. It's more similar to grandiose narcissism, but it's an official diagnosis in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), so someone could be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, but could not be diagnosed with grandiose or vulnerable narcissism. Those are simply constructs measured on a continuum. Narcissistic personality disorder is a Cluster B personality disorder, so it's in the same cluster as antisocial, borderline, and histrionic.
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Even discussing that topic is so rare. Everyone is talking about narcissists as sick and evil. They are humans too. They are hurting. Thank you for talking about it.
Yes💯
I completely agree. Everyone views narcissists are bad and toxic people, but in reality they are hurting too and wanting help but when they ask nobody would help them because they are narcissist and nobody thinks they can't change.
But my view is that everyone can be narcissistic at times but those with extreme shouldn't get pushed away but instead help them even if you don't know much about NPD atleast try and help.
My husband is narcissist and dealing with him is very challenging. I love him so much and I see the self destructiveness in him all the time but he will not get help. So I'm suffering as well being in a relationship with someone I feel is incapable of truly loving or empathizing and I feel a lot of my needs not getting met while I'm catering to all of his. It's not easy. These people can't see anything wrong with them.
@@kay3725 i was like your husband and hurted someone for very long... Without knowing it.. now i wish i had left her earlier just to spare her and me so much pain
@@iacopogranati6911 I just wish he could change, and get help. But he can never admit that he needs help. Very self destructive
When your a self aware narcissist. No one told me. I just knew something was wrong with me.
Same
Same. Im at this point now. Where do I go from here?
@@dannybunuelos1959 Exactlly, I am really trying to change but it's really hard and I don't even know why. I did some progress but sometimes I keep messing up.
I don't want to be unfixable
I don’t want to live this way. Where do I go from here
I’m 24 now & I was sexually abused as a child on a daily basis & it has deeply effected my life negatively. He stole everything from me & I feel like I am cold hearted/lack empathy because of it. I have low self esteem, but I come off as so strong because it’s the only thing I know how to do but inside I’m so weak. It effects every relationship in my life, but mainly the relationship with my fiancé. I’m crying while typing this because I want to change. I’m tired of acting out. I’m tired of being crazy & then regretting it. I’m tired. I just want to be able to accept the love I am given without not believing it, etc. I want to trust. I don’t want to hurt anymore.
Your post made tear up because I totally know what you mean. I hope you're doing better. Thank you for sharing and helping me feel less alone.
You are not alone
@@amandaserena2007 You’re welcome! I’m in therapy now & am slowly learning how to improve my life. But even going to therapy is a huge step for me.
I am sorry that you experienced this. I am not a professional but could this be trauma?
24 as well with a similar childhood. Realizing that the narcissistic physical and sexual abuse made me adapt into vulnerable narcissistic traits myself, and trying to push through every day of recovery can be overwhelming, but at this point I'll do anything to be more in touch with my emotions, and one day be happy 💛
Oh wow! More "recovering from" videos please. This is exactly what most of us need.
Mavicity I detect sarcasm here, right? I felt a certain annoyance that the video’s title suggested a better prognosis than what was actually given. I feel very discouraged and like the conclusion is that narcissist are basically throwaway humans...
sitto wardi “Throw away humans?” What, instead of seeking treatment they should kill themselves?
Yes, I think knowing what recovery "looks like" for all 10 major personality disorders would be far beyond fascinating!
@@sittowardi6781 Maybe they can be taught to take pride in the fact that they are no longer causing pain and suffering for the people around them, and that they are strictly better than they've ever been before. Maybe they can be taught to forgive themselves for their past and start focusing on their present humility and their future emotional health. Seems reasonable for someone who has come so far as to sustain massive narcissistic injury in order to gain personal insight. Sounds to me like a recovering narcissist is anything BUT a throw away human. A clean slate with endless potential.
@@markstahl1464 thank you. Some us are really what you described.
It's a real shame that this level of insight isn't more widely available, great work!
Read books you dumb. He is learning from papers and books. You can do the same instead of making dumb comment online.
It is.. If you suffer from NPD you get the feeling to end your life right away because no help available. Only hate and shame. No recovery. So why carry on with this shit
I agree, most just very superficial and hopeless. I considered that it's reprogramming brain. Working on insecurities and that helps
@@pajeetsingh actually he’s a doctor I thought
@@leoniesser5958 I hope you are still alive and growing! 🤗. No matter what, your life is valuable and worthy to be cherished. I'm still struggling to overcome so much and some days I cry and scream with the pain. Yet, even in the pain...at least now... ending my life is not a thought, or option. I know every human has value and worth bc our G-d and Father made us beautifully in His image.
If you know anything about diamonds and how beautiful and intricate they are ....it is so helpful to understand that when they are "in the rough" they actually look quite ugly and unrecognizable to most. Only the trained eye can see the true value and worth of the ugly, deformed, newly exposed diamond. You are that diamond! Being cut and formed to display the light is a long and arduous process! Please stick around so you can one day display your Creator beautifully as He designed you! Please stick around so you can truly know Him and how much He loves you right now no matter how you look to yourself or anyone else.
💕 wanting to give you a little hope for your journey:).....and anyone else who happens to read this...may you, too, have hope that change is not only possible, but with effort, it is probable. Blessings and love to all. ❤️🩹
Narcissistic rage is the unloading of our shame into someone else to protect our fragile ego from it... definitely makes sense that without the narcissism we are left with just the shame.
Yes. I always feel like i could never handle this pain, that why i avoid it, but the point has come where i no longer can run away.
Nice words, Nice picture too
I became aware of my narcissistic personality disorder just recently and am exploring paths to recovery. Dr. Todd and Dr. Ramani are on point. The method is to understand that spending energy on being empathetic is worth the sustainable love of a relationship. It takes 10,000 to master a craft and I am at hour 20 for practicing empathy. Just like any goal, I try to focus on the results, which is a loving family that is strong and united. I let my loved ones know about my disorder and helped them call me out whenever I act that way, let them know what to look out for. Things of that nature have been helping me acknowledge and experience an empathic mindset.
8 months later, when you were at hour 20. Good for you on having the self reflection & strength to work on it. I hope you're still going strong & that it has gotten easier over time.
Best of luck.
Excellent. I believe as you emerge from the fog of NPD, you feel guilty about your past behavior and withdraw to inflict less pain, as well as avoiding the pain of embarrassment. My own case involved alcoholic drinking, which after sobriety I realized was idiotic behavior. Down the road I discovered how little empathy I felt, which I equated with lacking emotional depth. I liken it to a profoundly deaf person in a dance-hall. The onion is the perfect metaphor for this disorder, peeling back the layers until there is nothing more to peel.
I saw somewhere, that narcs can train themselves to feel more empathy. Starting with learning to be interested in other people, in other views than their own..
Yes peter that is what happened to me. I trained myself to have empathy with help from a psychotherapist
Was the fog also like a dissasociation?
As I healed from Depersonalization/Derealization disorder (that ive had on and off throughout my entire life n im almost 20) it was like layers peeling back, but I really dove into it INTENSE within the last year, because a lot of trauma came up that sent me into it all which was seas of terror and fear and horrible thoughts and some psychosis. (which is a blessing in disguise.) was going in to heal a lot of that and anxiety, and part of all this as layers peeled back and came to understand myself and reality more, I realized people had their own emotions and lives, and that things I say had emotional impact and that emotions like basically run relationships and I lacked that on and off in my life, so i had to be very fragile and cognizant with things I said and how they impact others. I authentically cried with my mom and therapist and it was real vulnerable moments.
But I wasnt consistent with healing and mindfulness and as I was slowly going back into my dissasociation/break from myself and reality, I could literally feel myself drifting into a false reality and false self/no self and now im in deep again. And in a way when I was in tact with reality I knew that that was exactly what was happening and told myself theres no reason to live at all in this black hole of existence & that I feel cursed.
How I get out is accepting the dissasociation and also regulating my nervous system and letting out muscle tension from trauma while being extremely mindful through every day life and keeping up with relationships, basically observing in a 3rd person through my whole existence so i dont rubber band back into the black hole or false self.
So I def see a strong link between dissasociation and the false self in npd.
I'm not sure if I have npd but have a nudge I do because of trauma and my upbringing of trauma and flip side of the feeling special etc. when im not dissasociating or have that under control I feel im somewhat empathetic and can feel my true self and connect with others but when I am I can revert into a false self and false feelings and not in touch with reality at all I get very defensive and isolate and shut down and have no empathy. And that my reality is my reality and everyone is playing a part in MY reality. Whereas before I was apart of reality as a whole with other people.
it also makes you cry A LOT!
@Spring Lemon thanks 🙏
Thank you so much for this compassionate and insightful analysis of people with NPD. There are so many videos on TH-cam right now that just bash the NPD person and say how horrible they are and how you should just leave them because they'll never change. Your video made me cry because it is so true for me that as I think about reducing my narcissistic traits, I feel very vulnerable and exposed, which leads me to avoid social situations even more than I already do.
100% I’ve seen multiple videos that say break up with your narcissistic partner or run away from him/her. None has advised to help that narcissistic person.
W S i think if a person is in a relationship with a NPD person and are being abused (which seems to be the case a lot of times) they should 100% get out of that relationship. That person is not responsible for “fixing” their narcissistic partner and they deserve to get out of an environment where they are being abused. That being said, i think the NPD person should and deserves to get help as well, but from a professional. It is never the victim of abuse’s responsibility to “fix” their abuser! We should be compassionate to people with NPD in the sense that we should encourage them to get the proper help they need, but we also need to keep in mind that people with NPD can be really bad abusers. This all is being said from someone who may have narcissistic traits by the way.
sock I was talking about the exceptions. Some narcissists know their problems and want to resolve them. Some of them can be good people. The others are different. Narcissism mixed with mean spirited, snobby, abusive personality. That person has a whole range of problems that therapists should solve not the partner.
W S oh ok, that does make more sense. Though sometimes people can be manipulative or abusive without even realizing it, so it’s important to look out for that too. If a person with NPD is actively trying to better themselves and they have a partner who wants to help and isn’t being hurt in the process, then more power to em!
Ya. My mental health team told me I have covert narcissistic traits. I feel really depressed. Like I'm missing parts of me that make me a human. And that's terrifying.
As a narcissist, I am really glad there are still people out there who are still willing to try and help us become better people without taking away our personalities.
So do we get better? And eventually cured?
@@CloutForSale I don't think it' something that can be 100% cured. But with mindfulness training we can definitely get to a better place that makes us happier and the people around us happier as well. 💕
wishing you successful balancing and healing!
How?
the problem is not really having a personality to begin with... i never had a solid sense of self and now i have no idea who i am and just feel like an empty shell of a person, so the question is, how do we develop a personality??
I hurt so many people before I came to the realization I am a narcissist.
I feel like the kid turned donkey in Pinocchio that can't ever go back
Yes. That is the most painful part, IMO.
It's what we are ...
Y’all , don’t give up u can change ! , I’m an empath and I’ve been hurt by my narc mother and such , I’m suffering from depression and high stress and I will never give up , plz yal don’t do
@@muslimwarrior9891 you might be a covert narcissist instead of an empath. I was married to a woman with BPD and thought I was an empath but found out I have a lot of narcissist traits. I'm in therapy at the moment.
I’ve found many people talking about NPD as incurable. I’m grateful to see a different perspective.
I mean what he's saying not very different from what other people say. It is still very very difficult to cure to the point of improbability.
How is it curable? Not debating but I want help :(
@@703kwood703 ❤ of course it is curable. As long as you can see a problem and are willing to change it, it can be done. Dont listen to anyone else telling you otherwise. Therapists speak in general, because being a narcissist itself wont normally allow you to see yourself and your mistakes/flaws.
You clearly do, so you have a good chance to belong to the small percentage that can change.
How? I'll tell you something.
Were you a narcissist when you were a newborn baby? no. So you were born normal, then you *became* a narcissist along the way, for whatever reasons (and most of the time it is extreme pain that we suffer in childhood and develop these narcissistic traits by natural reaction to the pain and people around us or a cope mechanism). So whatever the reasons are, you *developed, learned* these *bad habits* and with repetitive practice of those bad habits you now developed this bad part of your personality- narcissism.
The way to get out of this is already obvious.
Getting out of your narcissistic behaviours, and any bad habits, involves above all developing new habits. Healthy habits are learned the same way as unhealthy ones, *through practice.*
This paragraph is simply really all you need to know.
After you have become aware and clear of what exactly are the bad habits you want to get rid of, you write them all down one by one, then write down all the opposite good habits, and focus daily on working on the good ones. Practice practice practice.
For example lets assume you used to emotionally manipulate people with your words. Now write down "from now and on I say only words I would like people to tell me. I do to other people only things I would like and feel its fair if it was done unto me. I ONLY speak words I mean and I always mean what I say. I respect myself enough to be honest with myself and other people. I never do things that make me feel ashamed of myself. I feel good enough to be real with myself and people and i dont need to manipulate noone out of fear of abandonment or anything." Write down exact what you personally think you do as a narcissist and then write down the opposite right way to behave. Take your time with this. Then every single day from that day, practice the good habits you wrote down. And every time you see an opportunity in your life that you would normally act in your unconscious narcissistic ways, cut it immediately, and repeat your new self principles. You have to be aware of your self at all times in order to do this. This will take some time.
With time you slowly change from a narcissistic persona to a better, healthy persona. You go on, always practising the good habits and not giving in in the old bad habits. Until one day you have successfully left the narcissistic ways and you are now functioning as a good, healthy adult. You have now recovered.
Recovery happens when your conscious efforts of practising good habits get practiced long enough to become unconscious habits.
If you truly want to change, it is 100% done.
And to all those people commenting it's not possible, i feel sorry for you. You clearly don't get life and you come out as very weak and unintelligent. You can do better than that.
And remember. You cant unlearn something, and be left with a void. You can only learn something new. If you stop being a narcissist you will meet a void, you wont know who you are, how to behave now. So you have to fill that void, with a new self, new habits, new behaviours, new ways. You dont focus on fighting the old, you focus on building the new.
If you only know that your dont want to be X way, but you dont know the Y way you want to be, then you wont recover. Because life will go on, and force you to behave in some way, and if you dont know the new Y way of behaviour then you will automatically behave in the known/ learned X ways. Bwcauwe you have to react some waay. So you have to clearly know what is your new Y desired behaviour.
Clarity is key. Clarity of who you want to be. What kind of person you want to be. How do you dress, how do you think, how do you treat people, how do you speak, how do you react, how do you walk, what do you think about people and life, what do you think about yourself. It all makes who you are. And are deeply rooted in your persona, the way you perceive yourself, and the way others then perceive you too.
For you to change that, can only happen when you clearly define who is it that needs to go and who exactly is coming.
Hope this helps. Good luck ❤ enjoy this. Dont be sad about it, life is a tough, fun journey 😉 dont take it too seriously, it's not. You can always do better, as long as you still keep breathing. Dont waste tour energy asking around who thinks it's possible, and why yes why not. Go on and do what you have to do.
@@ni10k99 pls can you post both of your these replies as comment. I found them very helpful
This is me. I've been struggling to recover for years. A personality never developed because I experienced attachment trauma at 2 years old. I have an inner two year old who runs my thoughts and emotions and I feel victim to it. I've been in isolation for four years now after failing miserably at recovering. Words cannot convey the sufferring. The only thing that keeps me going is to know that I could always end it. Since that is always an option, I have nothing else to lose.
Melanie Guikema - I am a covert narcissist wanting recovery- what is the name of your fb page? Thank you
I’m so grateful for this share 🙏🏽❣️ the prognosis is most often so grim.. NPD is pervasive in our culture and it seems highly negligent to throw our hands up in the air and say there’s no hope for recovery! I have wondered if the avenue of utilizing the NPD dissociative ability to their advantage as been explored.. ie. coaching them to dissociate from their false self.. the same way they dissociate from anything else that feels awful!!! Roll playing etc.
I think a lot of people are being in your same situation, thank you for sharing
@Melanie Guikema Thank you. I didn't get a notification so I just saw this now. I appreciate the thought.
Keep going and please never give up! If you manage to recover, you’ll have a normal&happy life. I know how a narcissistic feel like and how the disorder affects the person’s life as i have one in my family. Can you tell me what made you realise that you have npd? How did you notice that something wasn’t right? My sister has npd but i believe in deep, she knows that she has problems but she keeps ignoring them. She doesn’t want to face any problems in life :( i want her to realise
Today I found out I might be a narcissist. I never labeled myself. But here I am. Getting help. I’m proud of all of you and I’m sorry you went through what lead you here.
I'm here because I just recently realized that *I* was the narcissist. The first thing I experienced was confusion and skepticism... (I though I was the victim of a narcissist), then shock and horror and an identity crisis of seeing myself and so many things in the past in a whole new light, and then the guilt and shame of realizing how many people I've hurt sinks in.
But I'm *determined* to recover and improve! I can't keep living like this, pushing people away and feeling lonely, sabotaging relationships and working against myself. I'm determined to change. I don't want to keep hurting people or being hurt.
Thank you for giving us a chance to change and believing we have the capability if we really want to enough. Thank you for treating us like humans too and not demonizing us like the rest of the internet is. Having a safe space where I feel accepted and not judged helps encourage me to make changes and try to overcome this.
❤
I've been going through the same thing. So glad I've found this channel as well
hi, @gaby5546, have you made progress? i am at the start of my journey and i would appreciate your insights. Could you recommend an effective therapist, if you worked with one? it's really hard to find someone, most are specialized on helping survivors.
@@red-swan-looking-in-the-mirror Hi, I'm not sure. I think my problem is a bit more complex that I originally thought. I dont have a diagnosis and dont think that label fits me anymore. I think I was so used to blaming myself that i might have misjudged myself unfairly. I hope you don't make the same mistake and will show yourself compassion and understanding while still trying to be better in little doable ways. I'm not currently in therapy either but I hope you find a good therapist. And perhaps it might be best to approach your problems as what they are rather than immediately seeking a label to avoid discrimination. You do what you think is best. Good luck!
It’s hard when I hated my father so much for his self importance, his narcissism, and yet I somehow inherited his sub conscious manipulation and self worth while also hating myself and feeling undeserving of anything. Not sure where to go but this video was a comfortable start, thank you.
I am so afraid of starting to recover or even trying to recover from NPD because what if there’s nobody under all that negativity. What if I’m only defined by my illness and what if I just do the opposite of being narcissistic after treatment, by simply running away from conflict and shaming myself for everything I do?
I have never been more afraid of overcoming my disorders because I know that the treatment might never work out.
I don’t want to be stuck in a place of madness for the rest of my life. I want to feel humane. I just want to be happy about myself and the way I act.
Damn, thats kind of scary. Hearing this stories makes me scared i could be a little narcissistic. How do you know you are a narcissist?
First get help to address the narcissistic issues. Seek s good therapist if you can. Try and prioritise this. Then you can focus on building yourself up. It might seem impossible now, but trust me once you start dealing with the narcissism you can move forward. I believe in you, even although it seems impossible.
@@brandons9027 If you are one, you will never know it. Having tendencies and traits isn't the same as NPD.
Being narcissistic isn't equated to NPD. Even considering being one means you are not one. I'm so frustrated at this video perpetuating this idea. There are plenty of people with tendencies and fleas that sabotage their lives and would benefit from therapy, but to call it recovering from NPD is just false.
NPD is a brain disorder in which the physical construction is underdeveloped in specific areas of the brain pertaining to empathy. If one thinks of empathy like a muscle, then NPD and psychopathy lack this muscle. It's not underworked or weak, it doesn't exist. This explains why it's an incurable disorder.
@@vixxcelacea2778 i was asking the question probe. I also suspect this person isnt actually a narcissist.
But its important to challenge our assumptions about ourselves. I often question whether im many things
Is your point that narcissism is genetic in nature and uncurable? If so can you link me the studies you got that from. I need to learn more.
@@vixxcelacea2778 then, how about borderline personality disorder? Is that incurable too? These are all cluster B disorders.
I believe whole-heartedly that, although rare, recovery is possible. It took me years of learning, reflecting, understanding, and, above all, an extereme desire to recover, in addition to relentless hard work. I am now a much better person than I was as a narcissist, although admittedly, still a work in progress. The progress, in my opinion, has been noticably significant. There IS hope!
i am at the start of my journey and i would very much appreciate your advice and insights. How have you measured the progress? Could you recommend an effective therapist, if you worked with one? it's really hard to find someone, most are specialized on helping survivors.
Others have pointed this out, but Dr. Grande's videos are unique, one of very few that look at the narcissist as one who may recover, and what a recovering narcissist may expect. My own narcissistic realization and recovery has been underway for a while, I still falter into old ways constantly. When I first started researching this, I was shocked by the content of most youtube videos on the subject: "How To Destroy A Narcissist", "How To Kill A Narcissist", "How to trigger, torture, hurt, and destroy the narcissist.", "How To Make The Narcissist Suffer Forever," "Crushing The Narcissist - what will do the most damage to them," "The Devil Plots With The Narcissist Destroy You." etc. There are many more, it's good to see someone with an alternative, I don't think those "revenge on the narcissist" videos are the answer.
I'm 23, I'm recovering from NPD, mixed with bpd. I'm doing as much therapy as possible while I'm still young because the older you get the tougher it is to overcome.
Schema therapy has helped for the most part but I have ways to go
David Gindi how did you find out that you’re suffering from NPD (at this age?) I’ve heard, seen, read that people with NPD, don’t even think they have problems, but the world around them. I’m just curious. Glad you’re getting some help and wish you all the best. Thanks for sharing.
Same question, how did you come to realize you had it? How can you help someone see they have it so they can get help?
Keep up the great work!!! We appreciate you and you can be and should be loved!!!
great. I wish my brother would do something ... I hope you are fine.
I can relate exactly to this. Thanks for sharing about Schema therapy.
I love the energy in the comment section. We're all working for a change. We don't want to hurt other people that's why we are changing ourselves. I'm rooting for all of you guys. We can heal, we can love. ❤
I'm so cheerleading for you guys
Thanks, I feel like I am a narcassist and I hope that I can grow with my doctors help and facing my shortfalls with honesty and owning my behaviors so I can find my place in society better.
Only qualified professionals are really worth listening to when it comes to mental health. Thank you for doing these videos.
You are quite welcome :)
I have narcissistic traits stemming from childhood. I feel empty and lonely, over 30 years I’ve caused damage and I look back and I only began to understand more lately after being called out. I’ve been trying to find ways to help. I don’t want to be this way.
I’m a victim of narcissistic abuse and I’m an empath but we suffer deeply inside too. Our behaviours aren’t so destructive for other people like narcissist is but we all come out of trauma in usually childhood. If you realise what you’re and want to change than great ❤. Who you turn into isn’t your fault!
OMG!
You are right Doctor Grande…
Avoidant is the outcome after recovery, most definitely.
I was always confused if it was NPD or avoidance.
Because like you said after gaining awareness, the narcissistic traits declined into avoidance.
But this is easier to deal with.
This video gave me hope…
That you very much Dr. Grande!
Thanks for sharing.
Yes for me too, thank you.
At least with avoidance, we won't hurt as much people or create less drama/chaos, we only hurt only ourselves, but you can arrange your life like that, peacefully, avoiding other people.
That is so me. I think I'm a covert narcissist... due to social and familial expectations that totally ruined my personality to the point I don't know who I am. I delved into avoidance to not hurt others and just suffer myself.
I am 34 and thankful I was not 43 when I learned about my narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). I’m very thankful I have the internet to reflect and learn about this stuff, and not live an entire life without knowing I had this disorder. 🙏
as I watch this video,
what arises in me,
is longing and desire...
and an immense and intense
a deep-deep ache inside my soul...
I pray magical blessings
in the lives of myself
and my true love (whom I am yet to meet).
may him and I, both experience magical transformation
and new levels of enlightenment and bliss...
and may that lead us to each other, very-very-very soon!
and may you, as well, beloved reader, be blessed, too...
just beautiful, a delightful read
I think narcissism is more treatable than people think. What is hard about treating it could be a couple of things. One, the very basic first step to getting help is recognizing you have a problem, but literally the essence of narcissism to begin with would be the denial of that problem. Two, therapists and those alike implore people with the saying “You have to WANT to go to therapy”, meaning it has to be the narcissist’s choice to get help, which goes back to the basic problem to begin with, the narcissists want others to do the work for them (projection), so they have trouble even taking that first step. And three, narcissism is like the most basic anti-social quality, so in essence no one wants to go out of their way (or so it seems) to try and help the narcissist, because they’re so unlikable to begin.
What’s frustrating is narcissism is at the root of most relationship conflicts, both personal and global. And yet, at the same time, it is the thing no one wants to talk about, address, or help
Where I think it’s much more important to focus on helping those, the victims, whom the narcissist has hurt, we also need to realize that without helping the narcissist too, the problem is going to persist. They’re going to keep hurting other people, especially because the only way society “helps” narcissists is by shaming them, which really only perpetuates their illness. If we spent less time hating on the narcissist and more time helping them, we wouldn’t have so many victims to begin with.
Well that was a very refreshing video. I've only heard of professionals and victims of family members with NPD stating that it is highly resistant to treatment and for family to get away from them.
Yes. I remember reading that NPD could essentially not be treated. But the fact that it does not seem to have a chemical component seems to me that it definitely can be treated. The problem, as this Dr. describes so well, is the barren plain that's there after NPD is identified and, with help, stripped away. I like the fact that Dr. Grande says a new personality can be built. Wish I could absorb the idea that this could hold true for someone of advanced age.
@@dukeanddauphindonald8849 It's a physical component (chemicals are physical anyway) but in this case NPD is missing grey matter in the brain.
People can have strong narcissistic tendencies and fleas, but the difference between them and NPD is that they care that they hurt people, they realize they are the problem.
So yes, there is a reason professionals and victims all say to run, because a real narcissist isn't curable. They by definition of the disorder can't see that they are the problem.
Everyone here saying that they can recover are leaving those who are stuck in abusive relationships to try to stay and it's maddening and horrific.
NPD is incurable, it's a similar disorder to psychopathy which is also incurable (short of brain surgery, which we don't have the understanding for yet). Having narcissistic tendencies is. You can get therapy and help to see problematic actions and attributes, but it isn't NPD and I find it so insanely hurtful that anyone would perpetuate this.
Because 99.9% of people with NPD refuse to put in the work! No different then learning to golf or learning guitar. It takes hard work. People with NPD are lazy and use others. Hence why most never recover
I am a collapsed narcissist and am so terrified of all that it will mean for my family. How I wish I could be like all of you...I look at you in awe...to know what real love and empathy is like...to know what it is to be a true adult... To know I have really loved my children and grandchildren. But I haven't. My heart feels like a stone. How can I not love? I feel my soul is so black and my life keeps flashing before me reminding me of what I am. Your families are so blessed to have you...please pray for mine for they are so innocent. I don't know a way out of this collapse. I have earned it but wish I knew where the roots of it began.
If you are terrified for the sake of your family, is that not love?
Read the Bible. All you need is inside. Watch how Jesus lived his life. Pretend like you are 5 and starting school all over. In 4 months you will be amazed at what Christ will do inside of you.
thank you dr. grande. appreciate your scientifically informed input in this very painful topic. (most helpful parts were when you clarify/mention “counselors are not personality builders” and “insight has to increase” and “cyclic behavior” and “when narcissism is stripped away, what you’re left with is avoidant personality features” and the fluctuation “back and forth between grandiose and vulnerable”) thank you very much again. agreed, this is an interesting dynamic to consider and it has been one i have struggled with greatly for 25 years as it pertains to both of my parents. sending gratitude for your helpfulness in creating these “unslanted” neutral and informative videos. 🙏🏻
You are quite welcome!
Dr. Grande, thank you for your excellent video on recovering from NP. I find a refreshing change from the "run away from the narcissist" tone of most of the videos out there. So far yours is only one of two channels offering any help for the NP. I was diagnosed as having a Narcissistic Personality when I was 38. I have been struggling to change for the past 26 yrs. and have made some good progress but I have miles to go. Please do more!
I feel so much guilt, shame, feelings of feeling disgusting...and yes this is a daily battle some days are better then others but it really makes you feel like a nobody like youre the only one whos not normal and that youre just a messed up person inside and out..for so long i didnt realize that this is who ive been for the past 7 years..you miss the old you that you once where..you feel trapped and like all you do to others is hurt them but you want to be good ao bad but you cant be :( no matter how hard you try
You guys can love and heal i believe it so much with all my heart you guys just git to believe
I can't imagine my dad 'recovering' from NPD. It's not just a disorder. It's who he is.
It’s also a brain disorder. Brain scan studies have been conducted and there are structural abnormalities in their brains. The grey matter in the region of their brains responsible for generating empathy and compassion shows up in the scan image as visibly diminished in volume.
I feel like I needed this video. I'm very much in the avoidant phase right now. Just endlessly watching videos of how narcissists are abusive evil monsters that are incapable of love. My moments of sadness are either disconnected experiences (like watching a sad part in a film) or self pity. I wear so many masks for so many different people because I want everyone to like me, that I look fake and so nobody likes me. I really want to heal and just love from my heart, but it feels like my only option is to lock myself away so I don't hurt anyone again. I don't know who I am. And I'm scared.
I fear that I have covert narcissism... I fear that, while I was having these narcissistic traits, I thought they were all okay. I thought they were all about me, and what I got to do, and I have zero accountability. Why must I go through pain of accountability - I am an adult! Why must I grow up... I don't need to anymore! Why must I sacrifice my "mental health" if I can just... do what I want... And in that instance, I was going down a road of literal, covert narcissism... I didn't realize I had it until I was able to be completely alone, by myself..and able to look at myself in the mirror and see what the issue really was. I have withdrawn of everything... I have withdrawn of eating, sleeping, and doing anything, because I am still in "fight or flight" mode about my own mental standing. Honestly, I feel that... I need a parent. I need to be a kid again. I need to be put in a situation where I need to grow up. I never went through that... I never was able to be at that point where I was grown. I'm not sure if it's because I was neglected... or because I chose not to grow up... but in all honestly, when I found out my parents lied about my entire life, I could not trust that their "parenting" was in my best interest, and I sort of dissuaded and withdrew from their parenting in the most quiet, subtle, and depressing way possible, without breaking any rules, (which is ironic because as long as I Didn't break any rules, my parents didn't really care about me), I was left with being a person who didn't actually grow up. I was left being a person who wasn't done yet. The Lord put me in the Marine Corps to actually learn how to grow up, to actually get the care I needed and become, well, grown. But my... narcissism must have been too far at that point, and the devil kept whispering in my ear. "Don't listen to them, either. Don't trust them, either. It is all your fault." Blaming myself for the ridicule and the bullying I experienced while in the Marines, not figuring out how to get out of the pain... realizing, "Wait, I can just act this way, act this way, and act this way for comfort!" And then, in the end, not realizing I was actually cutting off all of my friendships and being left with nothing but an empty heart and confusing thoughts. My own strife for living and being happy and knowing that God really does exist has been the only thing rocking my boat to force me to believe that what I did was actually wrong. What I have been doing this whole time is wrong. Perhaps I will never get real clarity. Perhaps there are things in my life that are so gone and lost in this blackhole of covert narcissism that I may never get all of the answers, and as my brain and heart ache for the future of what may or may not come, my present sense of withdrawal from everything around me takes over, as I aimlessly and continuously watch videos of narcissism and sociopathy, wondering if my soul even exists at this point. Feelings of dread, sadness, dismay, discontentment, anxiety, depression, regret, and lonliness, have all, ALL, motivated me to do certain things. And never feeling better. Never knowing how to fix my negativity. It is the worst feeling in the world. Hands down, giving up all control and telling myself, NO, you CANNOT feel better right now, gives my heart mixed feelings of, "Do I not deserve to feel better?" and also, "I fucked up so bad, I will never feel better." When it reality, it is simply a moral thing. Morally I cannot feel better this way. Morally it is WRONG. Morally, I will not reap benefits of spiritual and mental happiness if I continuously try justifying my actions and giving myself "happy moments." For, to give myself "happy moments" of brief satisfaction from people, either sexually or..yeah, sexually has been the only theme in my life (at least it isn't manipulating others for my own success, I would never do that..), makes me JUSTIFY my pain to begin with. If my pain is JUSTIFIED, and my actions followed through - then I am tying the knot tighter, tighter, tighter, and tighter.......... In order to fix this personality disorder, you MUST hands down give up all control. As if you are recovering from drugs. As if you are recovering from crack. And yes, you will 100% withdraw from everything. That is the hardest part. Because in this act of healing, you are feeling worse. Literally, it is like giving up drugs. Because truly, these narcissistic behavior gave the brain one thing. And that is dopamine. It's almost like a revelation.
Wow wow wow yes yes!! I have recently come to terms with my narcissism at the age of 30. I stopped drinking and drugs 6mnths ago I left my family to live alone to get sober and change my life ... And OMG I am realizing how fucked up I was, I used people I was an abuser , my NPD was severe and multiplied bcos of my alcoholism I needed admiration from everyone but mostly men. I was jealous of women, I cheated on every partner , I made so many shitty decisions and now being isolated for the last six months with no one to abuse/ hurt I am left with myself. My own reflection , my own thoughts and its truly disgusting to look at myself.... I don't know who I am or even who I used to be. I realized my mum lied to me my whole life. Neglected me, hit me, raged her anger out on me and I grew up copying her behavior. She was abused and so was her mum and probably her mum before that I feel it's generational trauma . I isolate myself bcos I am scared of trusting people , I'm scared to hurt them to but mostly I'm protecting myself the coping mechanism is so powerful it rules my life. I'm so scared to just let go and trust, its truly paralyzing.i live in fear self hate is also very powerful , I feel completely empty inside. I look in my eyes I don't know the person looking back at me. I try to love myself , treat myself good but it never lasts I don't know how to meet my own needs bcos I've always used others to meet them for me. I feel like a kid needing to relearn how everything , I asked myself today what even is a personality?! I don't know.... Life is hard and I'm very sorry to everyone I've ever hurt xo
I am so happy I read that
@@rupk5578 Wow... that's a lot to unpack :/ How are you living alone, do you have a good job?
I totally understand. It's a confusing case for me too. I can't blame myself because I've been hurting my entire life too..and i did the best i know how
It's so fucked up this is like reading my diary.
Thank u. I am recovering from child abuse and it makes me happy to know that there are some ppl who want to help narcissists change and feel better about it too.
Thanks a lot for this video Dr. Grande. I haven't been diagnosed with anything, but personality is a spectrum, and the dynamic you explained rings true considering my past, witch gives me a lot of helpful insight. When I saw the video where you explained vulnerable narcissism, I definetly recognised a part of myself that peaked ten years ago, that faded when I had painted myself in a corner due to the expession of that trait. Then avoidance became the norm, and I have been struggling with that for years. I've only recently been able to try to overcome it, thanks to your your channel, among other things, witch made me seek council. These last weeks I stared initating coversations with people I don't know, witch I had never done before. So, again, thanks a lot, you're awsome !
“When a toxic person can no longer control you, they will try to control how others see you. The misinformation will feel unfair, but you stay above it, trusting that other people will eventually see the truth just like you did.” - Jill Blakeway
for someone who struggled a long time to accept my toxic traits, this video was very important. It feels good to know there is hope if I keep working on myself. Accepting the shame is probably the part why many people don't want to get better. When empathy kicks back in, damn, that's brutal.
Thank you. This literally feels like being a hurt child in an adults body
Thanks for the supportive content, even towards narcissists themselves. Thanks for the hope and bringing people together to share and cultivate this hope. Narcissism content like this is hard to find on the internet, most of it are groups solely focused on identifying and cutting of the narcissist for self preservation. This is perfectly understandable as the narcissist seems to consistently hurt himself (often without even realising or acknowledging it, therefore not even wanting help), whereas the victims of narcissists were hurt by the narcissists and are actually in touch with their own weaknesses, and need for support. But I see that in this comment section are in fact a lot of narcissistic people who are self-aware and desperate for change. For us most youtube videos and their comment sections feel more like alienating hate groups than the sort of help we're looking for in browsing the internet about this. Ty
They addressed so many issues lots of people had with the narcissists and that makes me extremely happy to know that he is really listening to their community like they did so many years ago. Thanks *Leapnotch*
Hey Todd, I didn't realize I was dealing with NPD until a few years ago (32 now). After I did, I retreated from all of my relationships as you noted. I didn't realize I was rebuilding my personality, but now I know. I'm going as far (now) as mapping who I am simply in picture form, and who I want to be. Because as you also noted it requires work to become that new type of person. I must row the boat toward my new desired self. I must visualize and fantasize about that new life I want to live. It not only gives me hope, but gives me direction. Only I can do the work ultimately, and this video was very helpful in understanding some next steps. Thanks!
I'm so glad you had hope I hope you're doing great so far in now
This is really interesting. I knew that personality disorders tend to be resistant to treatment, but I'd never seen the distinction between taking away added symptoms vs. fighting to rebuild a person's personality at its core. That gives me a lot to think about. Thanks for your insight!
Also, you seem to be better rested/less stressed than you have recently. 😊 I'm glad to see you doing well, doc.
I could listen to you F O R E V E R! You
amaze! You inspire. You’ve such a healing, giving, personality. Sometimes I go to you, when I’m down-and watch absolutely off topic subjects(for my situation) just to hear your calming voice, amazing intellect, and manor of storytelling(for lack of better word). I then feel complete 😊♥️Thank You, Dr. Todd Grande ♥️for all that you do!
Glad to see this. Too many places tell us to run from these people instead of learning to support and love them. If you are at all depressive or anxious that can feel so traumatizing.
Thank you so much Dr .Grande . So many people and even professionals think of those with NPD as a lost cause and impossible to treat . Its nice to hear you think it's possible to recover from
thanks for this very clear explanation of the disorder and the recovery process (which i haven't often heard about)
I am glad you made an excellent video about NPD recovery for I am also suffering with it. The hardest thing I've come across with this personality is that I am self-aware of my destructive behaviour and I want to change it, but I am having a lot of difficulties overcoming its obstacles. I fully want to recover from this and it is nice to see a video about it without someone saying NPD is the personality disorder that cannot be treated nor recover from it. This video gave me insight and some hope about my situation.
This video has me really looking at my own behavior right now. Thank you for being a calming influence
When you say recovery is rare the NPD individual will think that since they're unique they can heal, so it's great you mention it 😂 you're actually making them commit to therapy
Great point. Until I saw this video and read the comments, I thought that I was the only narcissist who has recovered. I’ve wanted to share my recovery story, but I saw how ironic it would be to say that I accomplished the impossible 😂
I found that the world outside the security of narcissism was an almost bottomless black pit of nothing, so to step out of the fantasy world was unimaginably worse that dying and no amount of reason or objectivity will erode this view. When there is no trust in the 'other' what possible reason could there be to change behaviour? I shall watch the rest of your videos with interest!
This is easily the best video on narcissism. Especially with reference to the big 5 personality traits.
Thank you for putting together this video. Almost was like finally someone understands me, at the same time it made me feel uneasy. I can see how my personality has helped and hurt me at the same time.
Do you provide counseling?
Thank you for this video, i was diagnosed npd at 18 and it shattered me
Diagnosed with covert narcissistic traits at 28. It broke me. I feel like I was always missing something that made human that other people had. And I guess this is it.
@@spannycat2 from what i know from a these videos and little online research..there aren't any proper set of diagnostic criteria's for it..none that's mentioned in the dsm! Did u self diagnose? (Maybe I'm not updated with it..lemme know:) )
Wow, I’m happy to see you guys actually doing the work and wanting to be better. My husband is no where close to even seeing a problem. He drove me to almost commit suicide and it doesn’t mean anything to him. He is now doing this to others and it sucks but I have to let God handle that. I’m proud of y’all, keep working!
Amazing content Dr Grande, thanks a lot. I was recently diagnosed with autism (aspergers) and was raised by a narcissistic family dynamic. It can be difficult because I tend to mask behaviors of those around me and sometimes act like the narcissists that have always belittled me. The happiest and best mental state I ever had was when I moved away for college. Those 2 years helped me realize how often I was put down and “controlled” in the narcissists playhouse. Having moved home again, it is difficult to deal with and is something I am trying to understand to heal. It is also hard because I somewhat depend on the ones who love control and am working to figure out a solution to escape it. I am also working with a therapist to make sure that I do not mask the terrible attacks of narcissists. I hope everyone that either is a narcissistic or has dealt with one gets the help they need. It is difficult because you wanna care for them but they can be so hurtful. We all hurt and I wish you all well 🖤
Brilliant. Very educational, helpful and informative.
It's clear from your video more studies are required of people who have
recovered or are recovering.
This is crucial because recovered people can be encouraged to share their successes and achievements, to use their life experiences to help and inform others, and they can be open and honest about the impact narcissism has had on their mental health, their physical health, their quality of life and the impact it has had on their relationships, no doubt causing them to lose people who genuinely love or loved them.
Also, importantly, they can be a voice for others, and help to educate people about recognising, acknowledging the problems, what to do to access the right kind of support and to talk openly in a safe space.
THANK YOU! 👌🎯🙏
I'm 14 and I'm trying to recover from NPD.
Same mate
Ok but you are 14 and are already aware of this? That is very impressive! Keep going and you will find your answers! Its hard but the reward of mental freedom is worth it
Don’t give up, there is always hope
Same, I'm also a 13 year old and I just realized how horrible I've treated my siblings and friends and made crappy decisions. Also screw my parents for failing to nurture me and continue the generation abuse, spreading their misery on my siblings and I.
But also, it comes as time that I have to take accountability of what I did. No amount of feeling better would make up what I did wrong before because I don't deserve to feel better after making those decisions. I carry my own shame for my own actions. Trying to build up my low self esteem so I cannot be impacted by my horrible parents. Meanwhile, I'll try to nurture my siblings amd train myself with empathy. Giving up control as it is not the answer. EVER.
And looks like i gotta spend my time self-reflecting too...
Yep you explained what I've seen & exspereanced quite well , thank you.
This video has made things so clear to me. This video may have changed my life. I'm now 38 and will be 39 at the end of the year. I've known for several years now that I have some kind of mental illness or chemical imbalance. The term by bipolar has been suggested to me so I started to find reasons and ways to support that thought because I wanted help and a way to cure it if possible or maybe live a productive life. My mom would often say that my father is a narcissus and I would hear people mention NPD for some famous people, such as a reality star or a person that seemed obsessed with themselves or ones appearance not ever researching NPD or what it actually was. I've even suggested that my mother was a narcissus based on what I thought it was. I never thought of myself that way and no one has ever said it to me but after watching several of your videos I will have to admit that I have displayed nearly all of the symptoms suggested if not all by your videos definition. I feel like it may be some what of a breakthrough and I plan to bring it up with a therapist that I am scheduled to meet with early next week. I feel somewhat relieved that I may know what it is and maybe I can treat it. I never thought NPD was something that could me because I've always cared so much for others, often putting my needs behind others. Some time in my early 30's I started feeling like I needed to put all of me into myself and it became extreme. I felt like years of me not going and cheering for myself was over and I was determine to make up for lost time. Just from the video that is posted here alone I feel like a walking poster child of what would create this condition. From the reasons of my childhood to the description of symptoms that were given. I hope that recognizing that NPD could be a condition that I may be dealing with is part of me and has become part of my personality I can somehow make changes and seek help. It would have normally been something I would have totally rejected if someone would have ever suggested that I have NPD not actually knowing what it was but what I thought it was. I honestly thought it was just a arrogant person who thought they were better than everyone else. However, after watching your videos I see that I may have the characteristics of the disorder. I want to know and hope that there is help? Do people get better? Do they learn how to operate and function at a better level. I know that NPD is not good to live a productive life. My life has not been what I would have ever wanted it to be and it may be because of the personality disorder. I know now more than ever that this condition may be what has caused some major difficulties in my life. I only pray that help is available and I am not forever burdened by the condition,
Super helpful! My mother was a narcissist, potentially BPD, undiagnosed but conjectured with therapists I saw on my own as an adult. Children know early when something is wrong but you try to rationalize because your parents helps create you and your view of the world. She crossed so many boundaries until one day she crossed one that jeopardized my safety, and then immediately showed no remorse and actually punished/blamed me and manipulated me into servitude. I "awoke" in that moment - I was 12. I understood she was very, very sick and I would never be safe with her again.
I also understood a sickness like this was something she would likely never recover from, because to recover from it is to break down your psyche and untether from all you know. If the narcissist is a coward, that task is the one task they could never perform, because it would take tremendous vulnerability and bravery, neither of which they have the skillset inherently to be. I went decades with PTSD and fear around the narcissist.
My mother was overt. I just got out of a 2 month relationship where little hints and my spidey senses were going off, and finally I realized - this person is broken. Your videos and others confirm I didn't recognize it because he was covert. I think he is moderate, and I never said to his face what I know he is because I knew he couldn't handle it. I ended it and told him "Go get a job, a car, get out of the house, make new friends, find new hobbies, and figure out who you are. Do not contact me until you have done that and are 100% ready to give me 50%."
I knew what I was telling him to do, because I know what he is. I knew how impossible my ask was. I phrased it as empathetically as I could. I basically told him to go build a personality, which he may never be able to do or recognize that he needs to do to truly be happy and healthy and find the ultimate validation he's seeking. It will be found in no one but himself. For his own sake, I hope he pursues the paths and tools to heal and recover, before hurting more people and falling to the extreme path.
I love all your videos! I would like for you to talk about empathy and if their is any research as to what the normal range is for empathy and how it is measured. Also some of your thoughts on empathy in relation to all the personality disorders.
Another excellent video. I think something similar is possible after a long manic period of bipolar because, once all the excitement and big ideas have gone, it can feel like there's no real person underneath to work with
Thank you!
Absolutely insightful review of the challenges regarding healing this disorder. You are a gifted doctor. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for giving a hope of recovery!
I’m at this point where I don’t even trust my judgements anymore. Like idk if it’s me speaking or my narcissism.
Thank you for this. It has helped me better understand someone I know who had narcissistic character traits who was knocked off his pedestal by debilitating illness and has both started to accept that listening to others point of view could benefit him and been very depressed about his powerlessness, the loss of the facade. He has difficulty relating to others from this new position in which the tough guy threat of potential coercion is not an option. He does seem to be adapting, though. Could be another facade or a recovery of the old one. Time will tell. If you know of any resources to help someone do that personality development you speak of, please share. This person doesn't seem to know even what he most enjoys, what could make him re-engage with life in a different way. Your video helps me understand the void he has fallen into.
I’m just realizing that I’ve been part of this bracket and this is one of the reason why I lost my ex gf.... my father brought that a lot to me from what I’ve been learning about narcissistic personalities.... I want to learn how to fix this. I want to be happy and learn to love myself. I want to change coach.
Hello, great topic and helpful to me. I’ve recovered from NPD. I’ve been in therapy for 37 years, I haven’t met the criteria for a while. My heart goes out to all of the people on this thread. At times I’ve wondered whether there are other narcissists who have recovered. I want to suggest that the people here who are working on their recovery look into internal family systems therapy, as well as EMDR. Both IFS and EMDR are cutting edge therapies that are very powerful for healing a damaged personality. I Really appreciated what Dr. Grand said about not having a developed social personality underneath the narcissism. I never looked at it like that before. I was bullied and excluded at school from four years old through ninth grade. It was during that time that I went into my own world, that I learn to cope by seeing myself as superior and invulnerable. Dr Grand’s talk jives with my experience. After my paradigm shifted and I knew that no one is better than anyone else, and that I was mentally I’ll, I still spent many years healing and developing the empty place beneath the narcissism. And while I’m not diagnosable anymore, I can still struggle with things like buying into paradigms to give myself a sense of structure. But these forays are brief and benign these days. I love my life. I’m still in therapy for my remaining diagnosis of CPTSD, but that’s getting a lot better too. With the new cutting edge, therapeutic techniques available I believe that you can recover from narcissism. I believe that all it takes is understanding that you have a problem. That’s the biggest step with narcissism - to actually believe you could make a mistake or be wrong or have anything wrong with you. If you’ve made it this far, the door is open, do everything you can to get some good psychotherapy. It works. All the best to you.
You are a real Doctor my friend!! Yours is the only video I have found with empathy towards NPD patients. All others make these poor people as evil monsters and it's not right. It's ironic how people accusing, people with NPD, of lack of empathy have no empathy!
Dr Mark Ettensohn - Heal NPD and Dr Diana Diamond - Borderliner Notes
Wow, this is enlightening! Thanks for this explanation Dr. Grande. I listen to many of your videos and have learned so much. These are enormous challenges for NPD to overcome. I have 3 versions of NPD (1 diagnosed, 2 IMHO),in my family and spouse. Have gone no contact with 2 of them and working on #3. Ugh!! One thought I had is that avoidant attachment style seems to be part of NPD abuse cycle, at least in my experience. Maybe there's a correlation to why Avoidant would emerge once Narcissism is stripped away because it's already there as a coping strategy?
11 years ago a court appointed psychologist labeled me NPD and I scoffed at them. While not re-offending and achieving many personal goals, my entire 20s has been "rowing the boat" towards social isolation and away from maturity. Maybe it's not too late to turn the boat around and seek help.
"... building a personality that... - and not building a personality that..."
That's a totally NEW CONCEPT to me:
that I built my personality over the years with certain traits and characteristics that I chose and practiced.
Wow.... thanks for that. I HEARD it...now I'll meditate and consider and.....ponder and hide this in my heart where truth will set me freer than I am in this moment. Thanks soooo much!
I am glad that I found an actual informative video.
Most discussions I have found on TH-cam have been self victimizing Wooo. "The Narcissist" in those videos are demonized without much reflection of how or why people may behave in a manner the "Empath" (the term these types of videos use to endear themselves to the listener) disapproves of.
true,I am a self-diagnosed narcissist recovered, I can't put myself to socialize at the moment, good to see that I am not alone
Well done on your recovery friend 🙂 did you have to make a life changing change to be rid of narcissism ! And are you still fragile ! or not completely recovered yet to put yourself a social environment !
@@oopoopod On getting rid of narcissism: it's simply too hard to carry on living with a wrong mindset(people keeps walking away from you),so I stopped and started to reflect and readjust myself.I started to try to understand and respect other people while putting myself in vulnerable positions. It took time and a lot of tears, but I think I am more or less fully recovered now.
@@oopoopod On socializing: it's still difficult since I was a cover-narc, I have really poor skills.I am still very introverted, and try to avoid socializing if I can(but if it's not avoidable I would go ahead and try to do things right)
@@oopoopod On trying to be less fragile: after you really understand what's the healthy way to look at the world, you would have some sort of confident. And by pushing yourself to face difficulties and take on responsibility, you would be less fragile(or say there is no time to be fragile)
@@sppukiwk4859 love that story . You realize you had a problem .. you analyzed it and more or less solved it ..and still being aware of minor issues to sort .. although I don't suffer from it You'll be an inspiration too many people ... You should right a book Well done again . And take care
I have bpd and I only realized recently that I have strong Covert Narcissistic traits (grandiose fantasies, poor self esteem, etc) ... I have empathy and that really confuses me because I never thought I could be a narcissist.. I was attracting narcissists and were their supply - which I have cut off now due to getting sick and tired of feeling used, but I think that was in part able to because my NPD traits increased o.o ... I also don't have a supply myself. I really don't. I am aware of treating other people with respect and am usually TOO nice and considerate.
Could someone comment or relate?
Thank you, this was very helpful. :(
Helped me realize that it is a defence mechanism due to poor development during childhood and adolescence and because I do have a fragile, immature personality deep within. I am aware of that and am readily able to admit it.
I can relate to everything you said.
Kellie Weed same
I am the biggest narcissist I know, but I can be so nice to people consistently, in the hopes that they’ll like me and think I’m a good person, but it really just feeds their personality and then they take advantage. This society we live in is basically breeding narcissists. Social media, genuinely inferior people due to bad parenting etc, and the whole hierarchy thing, university and big high paying ‘cool’ jobs that only the most resilient people seem to get. The world envies them and then they crave admiration after that, making them narcissistic. If you’re not a narcissist you’re a supplier. People like you and me are both. We’re all stuck in one big cobweb together and the spider will get us one day, the spider being misery. It already got me.
You've described me...
.. good to know I'm not alone, in a sense, while I treat myself.
Yes I can relate. I have covert narcissistic traits according to my mental health team. I'm a Christian female who has a strong cognitive value for ethics. I can cognitively choose to do "good people" things but my motivations are selfish. And I'm not that nice to my family. When I was younger I attracted narcissists and I would be their "flying monkeys". Now that I'm 28, I'm losing everything. My friends, my volunteer position, my career. At first I thought it was the pandemic, but it's me. The pandemic revealed all the bad things about me. I feel really broken now. I feel afraid of everyone. I cognitively know I should change. But I don't feel emotionally motivated to change. And that terrified me. It's like I cognitively kinda sort of feel like I should want to want to change. But I feel powerless to do that. And I know it's my fault.
To all of you with NPD who have been able to realize that you need help, I just want to say thank you!
To Dr Grande, thank you for your insight!! I have been able to heal myself a little from a previous relationship. I felt deeply hurt, manipulated, my self worth hit a all time low, but educating myself about this disorder has helped me with some healing. 🙏
I have never dated a person with NPD so I didn’t recognize the traits and I didn’t know how to help. I understand now that I couldn’t help. While I do not feel that my efforts were wasted, I do know my efforts were just not effective. I was not doing anything wrong. So thanks again Dr Grande!
Your videos are great (clear and informative) and more helpful than you can ever know. Thank you 😀.
I'm 22 and in school to hopefully become a therapist/consoler one day. However, I have just recently came to the (unprofessionally diagnosed) realization that I have NPD. I am now petrified because although I truly do just want to help individuals work through their problems, I feel that I may not be truly fit for that kind of responsibility, even if well educated.
Would love to hear from anyone who has been dealing with NPD recovery & is either my age or older.
Thank you
Watch professor Sam Vaknin, he is psychologist and also has a NPD. He has amazingly educational videos about personality disorders.
R u not experience imposter syndrome
Thank you for helping me understand
Wow! You hit alot of what im dealing with. This helped me understand the most when compared with the rest of the vids I've seen so far on TH-cam.
I've recently been diagnosed autistic (high functioning) but I'm finding videos about NPD much more relatable. Thank you very much for posting this, I finally feel understood
Hello there! So, I can see that I need to finally start treating my own narcissism. And I've done a lot of "self aware" self diagnosis and self treatment for many years (it would probably have taken a lot shorter time if I had known how to engage with a therapist without massive transferrance, lol... and I didn't know how to do that, so ALL of my situation is "self" done.... self diagnosed and self treated). I am a recovering Rage-aholic (I won't get into why) and a strong Alpha personality, so I WANT to fix myself because I know that I cause more damage than gentler personalities.
Anyway, I can see that my narcissism was absolutely necessary in my former years in order to protect my "sense of self" while I was unstable, emotionally explosive, and addicted to rage. However, now that I'm finally coming out of my Rage-aholic behavior, I'm seeing that it's not just a matter of "removing the bad". I also do NOT have any "social skills". Now, of course, being a narcissist, I have strong Manipulative skills, haha! :) But no REAL, or very few real, social skills to describe to you.
The idea.... the concept..... of being.... Average. Wow. That's.... my brain feels warm and light golden on that energy. But we both know that it is VERY UNFAMILIAR energy to my brain and we both know that the human brain LOVES things that are familiar and HATES things that are NOT familiar.
This is the VERY FIRST "treatment of narcissism" video that I've watched. So, you're getting my views of this RIGHT as it's happening. Clearly, I don't feel that my thoughts will be correctly read by you if I don't emphasize words throughout. That's how... much I may be feeling... not as strong as I'd like to feel. :)
I love Power. Only recently have I felt comfortable in this "egalitarian-conscious" society to actually say the words "I love Power and Wealth and Status and Prestige." I know there are people like me. And I know that other people live around people who are similar to me. So now I own it, but that's recent. I used to hide it and "manipulate" people into thinking that I was more egalitarian than I naturally am.
I think what brought me to look up "how to fix narcissism in yourself" on TH-cam (my actual search terms) is that now that I'm saying goodbye to all my rage, I can see that what is left is very much an empty shell. Or a mostly empty shell if you want be more optimistic about it. :) I like that you talk about being "pro social" because that's exactly the term I was looking for. I know that I have low social intelligence, but I didn't know how to describe what was happening inside of ME. Not having pro-social characteristics in my brain.... THAT is the phrase I needed in order to describe myself.
I am now watching your video on "Cognitive Behavioral Strategies for Narcissistic Personality Disorder."
~Rita
Im Narsistict, I feel so sad bout my bahaviour🥺
If you don’t mind my inquiry.. I’m so curious have you ever tried making amends for this type of behavior? It would really make a world of difference to understand how the psyche processes such a concept from the NPD perspective 🙏🏽💕
That's okey...u can get rid out of it
Try your best to stop you do more harm than good for the world
Without a doubt I am a person with these behavioral patterns and I do want to change. I don't want to emotionally keep hurting (not physically) the people I claim to love, claim because my actions would say otherwise :(
I would love to see more videos from you in the future. Thank you for this one
I was raised surrounded by narcissistic people. A lot of my negative behavior traits and narcissistic traits were learned. I probably still have some, but fewer than before when I was younger. A lot of this has been unlearned because those fantasies of success and power never came to fruition because of being beaten down by the world, and some things, such as a bank account don’t lie about success because if you don’t have a lot of money then you’re obviously not rich, and that’s easy to measure. The main thing that helped me grow out of some of these behaviors was wanting a better life and doing the necessary self reflection to realize what was going on. It does seem like I have some avoidant traits too. Part of why I think I have made progress is because I am thankful for a lot of things, which is the opposite of entitlement. For example, I am thankful for this video and the insights provided by Dr. Grande. I try to find things for which to be thankful.
Dr. Grande so where does a recovering narcissist go from there? Like what should they do with their fragile sense of self afterwards?
Subconscious Qualms I guess they should build a personality, how that is specifically done though I dont know.
@@ulvfdfgtmk that's maybe a reason it's so hard to treat it :/
@@anjachan Might actually be one of the core reasons. I was actually deep in drug addiction and it tore holes in my psyche. When I quit I had to rebuild my personality. It was hard, very hard. But there is a way so I think there is also a way for someone with NPD.
Realize a sense of self that is not idealized, one that is OK and accepting of flaws, in self and and in others.
Building a personality, basically, is done by asking yourself what you honestly think and feel about things; something as simple as do I prefer scrambled eggs to poached eggs? What colors do I prefer and why? What jokes do you find funny or offensive. Or more complex, and riskier, depending on the family you grew up in, do I honestly believe in the religion, or lack of faith, I was raised with or do I have glaring, unavoidable doubts? Etc., etc....
I wish my ex could get therapy. His hurting everyone that’s around him especially his own daughter.
Thank you for the narcissistic recovery video. It sure makes sense that avoident pd would be left. If a person wants to improve that's a good start. It's a long journey.
Thank you for you help with this terrible disorder. I knew I had this in my twenties when I couldn't pass a mirror or window without checking myself out and when I would manipulate people without caring about the stress I caused. But I didn't allow it to seem to be a problem until my 60s when so much else had fallen away and I had lost so much, including my relationship with my child. Now, as I get close to 70, what I feel is despair and the conviction that time is running out. With narcissism finally fully identified, it feels like barren land. My hope is that I can at least learn to mimic normal human caring for others. I think mimicry might be the best a recovering NPD order person can expect.
maybe the avoidance is because they are afraid to continue hurting others and by that, having even more shame, so they avoid people and different situations. it's much more easier working with a fearful avoidant person and see positive results than with unhealthy narcissism. so I see it as recovery already
Thank you!
Wow... this is so bang on, so, so, so helpful. Thankyou!
From what i understand, having trouble being vulnerable is not the main problem with narcisism. Rather, it is a deep feeling of shame, which is not adressed, and often not able to adress. If Dr Brene Brown is correct, vulnerability is the indicator if somebody feels more guilty or ashamed. But to reach a level of entitlement and gaslighting, belitteling, lying, manipulating, abuse and cohercing, is another big step in multiple negative directions. Lack of regret (the guilty feeling), and the inability to show, feel and act empathically, seem to act together, and somehow related. Also, a lack of insight can be worked at, but usually is not, for the pain of the narcissist doesn't seem to be a prominent problem with this disorder. Or if it is sometimes, it can be shift-switched towards blaming and shaming the behavior, feelings and thoughts of the other. I don't know, seems to me, these are some random correlations that maybe can be made.
Could you do a video on common manipulation tactics used by individuals with the dark triad traits
I'm curious if depression can cause a person to loose their empathy.
I was told by my psychiatrist that I definitely have mild depression (not sure if it's persistent depressive disorder or major depressive disorder but for the last 4 yrs I've felt nothing most of the time and I experience quite intense anhedonia). I haven't been able to empathize with people during this time and I'm curious if there are any studies that have researched the link between low/no empathy and the resurgence of a depressive episode.
I love your videos, honestly they're one of the most informed, objective ones I've found on the internet, keep up the great work 😊
Depression has the function of concentrating all your energy on yourself, because obviously there is something wrong in your life, and you have to find out (thinking/feeling): what?
So rather normal you are less empathic ( I would think)
I am one of the rare ones who does indeed desire recovery. I have lived in total isolation, avoiding hurting people. I was emotionally abandoned and neglected intellectually 100% as a child after a radical nde at 4yrs old. I am unemployable single and so distraught most of the time... I cried listening to your video. I have been working hard to develop self awareness in the middle of this daily struggle. Thanks. I am 56.
You should know that this really helped me a lot, I for sure have to go back to my psyciatrist and talk to her about this subject, I am fully imbarresed about my way of handling all issues in my life, and right now my Carrier is in the right direction, but Im too obsessed with acheaving my goals wich was about to ruin my relationship right now, all you said made totally sence for me and is making me search for help from professionals and help with training me in my behavior from my boyfriend and boss too maybe, this has to stop fucking up my life now, and I will probably watch you video a 100 times, and really focus on this right now, thank you so so much for this, and for making me as the narcessist understand it too, without getting angry or burst out in tears, thank you so much 🙏
Dr. Grande, what do you think about codependency?Thank you for your hard work