COVERT Narcissists: Everything you need to know (Part 3/3)
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.
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They should come with a warning label: "Prolonged engagement with me will induce PTSD".
Damn, a 2 hour convo will cause cptsd. , Txting . Their smoke signals, talking to them with string in empty tuna cans. It's freaking terrible
I wonder when my PTSD will end even after 10 month of separation and two years of knowing about their issues.
@@mekdeladawit7649 Grew up with one; recognised the PTSD (or rather my wife did) finally this year, having been trying to work out why I had certain responses to a few rare situations for a few years. Already been working on dismantling the parts of it I'd internalised and put onto others in intimate relationships for about as many years.
Dealing with this now. So hard.
That is so true
A lot of my healing is all of you posting your comments. I don't feel so alone . Thanks.
Ooooh you are not alone , from the ither side of the world i share with you the same feelings fears
Solitude and loneliness are very different things. When you learn to love and be around yourself, you've already beat them.
Same
I appreciate that comment, my dear. I feel the same way. My sister says, "Don't read the comments." WTF is she thinking?? Her problem I finally realized is that she's a benign narc. Dr. Ramani described her to a T. I never heard of a Benign Narc before. I thank Dr. Ramani so much ❤️
Same
I can tell you, after finally getting out of a 2.5 year relationship with a narcissist, being alone is far better than being in a relationship with a person like this. You should fear the consequences of staying with a narcissist far more than you fear being alone.
For me, it wasn't a fear of being alone. At that point, I wanted to be alone! But the way Dr. Ramani describes the guilt as being a huge factor was definitely true for me. I was conditioned from the start of my relationship to feel guilt at the idea of abandoning him. He would lament about how everyone leaves him in the end, how I'll probably leave just like everyone else, etc. And then all of the other sad stories coupled with his very real rage and victimhood. I think on a deep level, I didn't want to be just another person to break his heart and leave him. I did love him and I very much wanted to put in the effort I thought he deserved.
Only, I was so focused on putting the effort in for his comfort, it took me 7 years to realize he was never really emotionally available for me. And any time I had experienced any sort of sadness or difficult time, he was dismissive about it and would almost seem resentful that now I was the victim, and to him there was only room for one victim in the relationship (himself). It was like a child who was upset that their mother's attention was on someone else, even though it was only my attention on to myself. So he would lash out. And would always turn my sadness into being about HIM. Every time. If I was sad, or dare I say depressed, he would always have to spin it into being about him. Always asking if I was sad because I was having second thoughts about him or wasn't happy in the relationship. And instead of comforting me and taking the time to just hear me and help me work through my sadness, it always inevitably turned into me defending myself and having to express how much I love him.
My need for support was ALWAYS met with him flipping it into his need for validation.
@@FuzzyTwiguhthat was me in my last relationship. I was thinking it would be nice to finally find someone who views love like me but im in no hurry to rush into another relationship. That short amount of time i was with her depleted me. My first time ever on anxiety medication and I’m 32!!! We’ll get through this. 💪🏾💪🏾
@@FuzzyTwiguhI couldn't have put it better myself. Wishing you peace. 🕊️
@@FuzzyTwiguhwow, sounds a lot like my current bf
100% right
When I was depressed, I did have similar behaviors as the covert narcissist (feeling stuck, being mad at people who hurt me, and being a little envious) but the difference is that I never lied, gaslighted or had rages, and I was constantly trying different things to change the situation and improve myself. Also while I did blame my past for my problems, I didn’t use it as an excuse to not do anything about my current situation. Even when I felt envious of someone, my thoughts are never how do I take them down and instead was more like how do I become like them?
I believed I had bpd but this relates more to me covert narcissist my ex was a grandiose worst stressful 3 years of my entire life weekly arguments tears insecurity competition against each other
exactly!!! i went thru the same thing but never wanted to gaslight or drag anyone down with me.
@@heyitsbrandon733 yes
I think its the constant gaslighting and self esteem issues that lead someone to toxic behavior... this is the way they manipulate you because they got the rise out of you then now they can use that against you and use guilt against you.
Same here. Always wanted to know how to improve, and why things are they way they are. Never wanted to bring no one down with me, and always told the truth. Maybe some mild forms of covert narcissist personalities are undeveloped sigma males and females? 🤔
One week before moving in together I'm watching these videos and everything fits the situation, I can't believe I almost got myself dragged into this toxic ocean of negativity with him. Thank you for making this channel, it saved me lots of tears in the future. With love. Madeline
What a relief you must have felt. Be sure not to be duped back into the trap
I am so happy for you, I wish I had the knowledge to see ahead of time.
So glad you got away before going in to a hell lasting years. Well done
I was just thinking that, while it would have been profoundly, life-changingly beneficial for me to have know this 31 years ago, my fondest wish would be for everyone about to go down the same path I've been on to see these videos. I often say, "Been there, done that, got the emotional scars to prove it!". So glad you won't be wasting your life. Well done! Keep up the good work.
I am truly happy for you...just always know that no matter what, it is never too late to save your soul ♥
Who else is addicted to these videos?
Dr Ramani is a life-changer!...shining clarity upon the chaos and inspiring me and encouraging me with her healing tone and teaching. I just found her channel and I watch her every day for strength and understanding and it gives me hope for my own healing and empowerment. I would rather face the challenges of personal growth and healing to lift myself up than the continued challenges of narcissistic abuse patterns that tore me down and made me feel unworthy and not good enough. I share these videos with others too bc I know others who currently have or have had narcs in their lives.
I am sharing these videos with my 20 year old son. He needs to know all this.
Just knowing one person understand. I am all in!! So grateful!!!!
I watch her videos every morning while I'm getting ready for work.
ME too! After being continually gaslit by my family enablers and the narc, Dr. Ramani is the voice of reason, and brings the validation that the dynamics I was raised in were toxic.
Covert narcs.. the lights are on but no one’s home..
you’ll never get to know who they really are , there’s nothing to know.
Oh wow! Yes!!! That’s one of the things that occasionally pops into my head- just random snippets from stories they told me, and the realisation I have no idea what was truth or lies. Never really knowing anything about them
They are boring individuals who can only strike a conversation with a topic like" my house is bigger than yours",( beyond lame).
oh thats so sad :(
Facts there’s nothing that u want too know that u haven’t seen already
Wow that is a hell of a summary. Duck you nitch
I feel a calmness like never before in my life. Knowledge is power. Thanks so much.
May you find peace that seems impossible in their presence.
Same
@@brightpage1020 🙏🏻🙂
I need to give up, now!! I have house but not money. ..I'm feeling trapped and my health is not ok
1. Stop hoping they will get better
2. Stop feeling guilty of treating them by their truth.
I have literally thought “how can I leave him alone when I know he has no other friends?” Yeah, he has no friends because they left him too, I guess. But I did walk away, and once I made the decision it was much easier than I expected, because I KNEW I WAS RIGHT.
I still care, and I still hope he gets better... it just isn’t my business any more.
I think this a lot! I know how you feel ❤️
Unfortunately, he won’t get better. They get worse with age. I’m glad you left.
I feel the same. I hope he does better for his own sake, but I'm no longer emotionally invested anymore. The sense of freedom upon leaving was just incredible. It felt like a message from the universe that I was doing the right thing by leaving.
It is difficult to cut ties with toxic people when we care about them. I had to end a 15 friendship with a girl who I deeply cared about but as Dr. Ramani so intelligently described “was depleting the energy out” of my own life. Thank you again Dr. Ramani for reassuring me with this 3 part series that I did the right thing 10 years ago.
This is the 5th time leaving mine and it has been a year of not giving in. I still feel guilt, but therapy helps a lot.
I feel this covert narcissist was very dramatic. If there is no”drama” they go out their way to seek drama.
Yes‼️ exhausting
Seriously, i feel like I’m in a soap opera!
Yes same here with drama, I couldnt believe how a grown man can love drama so much. It was daily soap opera and usually the topics were pulled out from thin air. Me looking at a "wrong" person on the street, liking some random dudes pictures on fb or instagram, neighbour watching me, me talking on the phone for too long, me chatting with my friends and the list goes on. Alot of drama also came from my facebook history, he would just spend days and nights scrolling around my social media and blogs and finding new sources of drama from there. He would memorize all my life events and ex-boyfriends from there and then question me everyday about what happened in my life 2, 4, 6, 10 years ago and if I answered wrongly huge drama coming my way... Omg it was endless, I felt like in prison, I couldnt communicate with anyone or even like my friends pictures anymore. When we went out I was scared to even lift up my eyes incase I watch someone wrongly again or someone watches me. And that all happened in pandemic time where I was locked in another country and for months I had no way out. He was also getting physically abusive, he broke my computer and also hit me once in the face. When I accused him of hitting me, he denied it and tried to gaslight me into believing it didnt happen. I wasnt able to set much boundaries, any feedback, constructive criticism would bring up another huge drama. In the end I just gave up, played by his rules and did some soul distancing until I could fly back home. But at that time I didnt realize I was dealing with a narcissist.
hahaha yes! and god forbid you to offer a solution they act like they didn't hear you.
My narc ex said to me she enjoys drama and isn't use to no drama
Covert narcs act all nice but listen to your intuition and vibes. Energy never lies.
For me personally the energy around covert and malignant narcs is a very heavy forceful energy. It is hard to explain. To me it is like feeling a fist hit a wall, that resistance. I hope that helps a bit
@@genaw8457 I agree with this a 100%. very heavy depressing energy in my narc parents home. Extremely unpleasant
so so true ..... something about energy
@Catherine Murphy Draining. After spending several hours with them, I just want them to go away and I feel absolutely exhausted. I end up in a bad mood when I was not in a bad mood before they showed up. They take every bit of fun out of everything, they extract your energy and leave you with nothing left. You feel like you are wasting your time with them, you do not look forward to spending time with them; as a matter of fact, I dreaded it.
@@purpleturtle7477 I think of it like they are walking around with a giant minus sign over their head.
One day... I'd like to see a video explaining how you became a
crusader for all of us victims of narcissistic abuse. Yes, that sounds
dramatic, but so are the emotions we have been suffering. Because
of you and others, I have been greatly helped by these videos.
She basically healed me. I couldn't believe it when I first stumbled upon her channel, all my questions got answered. I thought I'd be just a temporary feeling of relief but nopes, it's been months and I'm completely healed. I couldn't care less about my ex-Narc. He hoovered and I blocked him, I even forgot to mention he did to my best friend the first time we met after the hoover - it's just not important anymore. It doesn't sound like a lot, I know but I came from thinking about the relationship every single day. I blamed myself, I was gaslighting myself. The trauma bond was real and strong. Anyways, this woman stole my heart in a non romantic sense, I love her!
me too was just thinking this
Yes, sounds like she really knows the topic, not only from theory but practice of her own as a survivor.
Become part of a faith community that fights evil instead of human flesh.
Check out her MedCircle interviews: basically she's an educator and a therapist and has done probably the most exhaustive and extensive research on this type of personality disorder to date. She's a complete godsend!
Oh. My. God. I've been trying to figure out my mom my whole life. Therapists have told me she was narcissistic but I thought 'a narcissist can't hate themselves as much as she does'. This is her. This helps so much as she's in a high stress moment and is HORRIFIC right now and I'm feeling so guilty about the space I'm putting between us when she's going through a hard time. I'm going to sleep better now.
Yes!! I’m just now figuring out at 31 that this is my mom, for years I thought something was wrong with me now I understand why people don’t like her it’s sick! She needs help and I can’t help her anymore
Do not feel guilty I am about to run away from her me and my child is living with her only for a moment but it’s like God brought me back here In order for me to move forward and have more knowledge
I had a conversation with my mother, (covert)(whom i live with), recently about the abuse in my childhood and her response was "l was raised the same way " My response was " ok, but parents are supposed to want to be better parents, want better for their children, so why the hell did you do the same thing to us? " she looked shocked and walked away. And played the poor me card, I didn't fall for it.
Few or no witnesses. They’re good at what they do. Very sneaky
Yep...and detailed attention at first like she said...
Very, very sneaky snakes in the grass.
Wolves in sheep's clothing.
They pick people no one cares about. That's why they pick me. No one cares if they do it to me.
OMG! YES! I didn't even attempt to try and "out" one in my life. They are surrounded by the people that either made them that way or support them. Trying to explain what they are makes you look nuts!
I've told my covert narc many times, "I can't make myself small enough to make you feel safe/secure/loved". It's maddening.
Well said......hope you’re gone🌼
That is a powerful statement.
A poem of truth in one sentence.
Kudos 💗
exactly no matter how much you love someone that still can't subsitute for self love.....
Very powerful
Be large. Be you. Let them go.
I feel like people need to learn more about covert narcissism. it's highly destructive, and it never stops, even in court. :\
It creates an invisible prison for their isolated victims. Those that do see it, believe they are witnessing the ideal.
Yup 💯
Ty for this warning as I am going through separation and divorce.
@@marieclaudelatour8542 I am so sorry to hear. they are SNEAKY.
I agree. They look so humble and kind and fool doctors and therapists. Mine only lets his real mean self show with me, wife, and his kids when they are young. Once they are adults he needs them for supply as he has no close friends. People at his work think he's so nice. Fear of being exposed is his major fear.
Excellent series. The covert narcissist is extremely hard to detect, which makes them possibly the most dangerous type, because they appear nice and humble outside, a false persona that everyone believes except the victim. You might waste years before finding out what’s actual going on and will doubt it until they discard you if you ever find the courage to establish healthy boundaries
Absolutely didn't want to bother with my family or couples nights.told me victim things.
Yeah. Had a friend whom I thought was humble, nice, sometimes had the extreme low mood for no reason thing, and just gave off a sort of sad vibe all round, consistently, but would say quietly complimentary things that seemed to demonstrate she really got me. I noticed she was socially awkward but thought she was just shy/ introverted, but also noticed she could snap back a look of disapproval very quickly at table service or someone a bit different.. after a while I noticed starting to feel uncomfortable around her OTT text message expressions of ' concern ' for me, as a disabled person, which really expressed as pity, and no interest in understanding or seeing me as an equal, then some platitudes that lacked substance. She often would send a text ' how are you, how's your energy today?' and when I would take the time to reply, including the ' how are you ? ' she would just not reply at all. Then do the same thing day in and day out. Like she'd ticked the box of but she couldn't be arsed to turn up to it. So, I eventually decided it bothered me enough to set a boundary. OMG, she hit the roof, the pass- agg anger came out in full force. And the sarcasm. The hypersensitivity and shaming of me didn't make me guilty though, it just showed a red flag. Within a few months I stopped being friends with her at all. Such exhausting experience.
I always knew deep down something was wrong with me. Years of the same cycle until one day in my 30's I looked within and my past. It took me 2 1/2 years to cut through the mess that I thought was anxiety, depression, PTSD to see that most if not all my troubles were caused by my narcissism. These videos have truly helped me see clearly what is going on in my mind and I hope that I can turn this around not just for me but for the people closest to me. Thanks you.
It takes a lot of courage to be willing to look at yourself. Much respect to you. I have been praying that my mother comes to this awareness. It makes me very sad to think she will leave this earth never understanding that SHE had the power to make things better.
Keep stepping into the light of that truth. Best of luck to you.
Wow I'm so proud of you. I wish my narcs had such ambitions, but one has to admit they have a problem to change it.
I think covert narcissism is very similar to borderline personality disorder. So keep an eye out for that.
Narcissim is on a spectrum.
It has taken me years to undo the damage my narc mom caused me. Keep improving.
We all need to get better.
@@steggopotamus Iam a Borderline.
Narc traits run with being a borderline but, there is way more to it. It is possible to improve yourself no matter what you are diagnosed with.
tbh, just listening to dr ramani feels like being in therapy. you can tell she's really present and wants to help.
maren,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🌺,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
Somebody SAAAAAAVE MEEEEEE!🥰😆👍
Yay-yeah!
absolutely.
@@johnrambo7264 go get therapyyyy
"How do you know when a narcissist is lying or gas lighting?"
"When their lips are moving, and when they aren't."
Just them existing
Short & to the precise point.
He kept clearing his throat
Sounds just like my ex husband. People were shocked when I had finally had it after almost 20 years of marriage. Some of his lies finally came to light, but he forever was the victim. His long history of substance abuse finally got him into trouble and I wouldn't bail him out!
@@AndreaD. For narcissists or for addicts, refusing to enable is best for both of you.
It has taken me years to see the trauma caused by my mother. She was very careful to show one mask to everyone else and be someone totally different with me. Mental trauma from a parent like this is very real and debilitating
Luna White I’m sorry 💐
My mother wore the mask at home too. I don't even think she knew she was wearing a mask until recently.
My mom too . I finally cut her off at 38. I just can’t deal with it anymore. It’s beyond exhausting with the vulnerable narcs .
I'm 34 and I didnt start really enforcing hard boundaries with her until 2 years ago. It took seeing her treat my nephew the way she used to treat me to realize she really is never going to change. So maintaining a surface relationship only to keep peace in the family but I can tell others are starting to see things finally. The older she gets the harder it is for her to mask her anger and issues
What’s worse is that you can’t even recognize it, it becomes your default setting.
This series of three described my relationship with my mother like nothing I have ever seen/heard/read before. Finally, after over 40 years, it all makes sense.
Very freeing isn't it? My narc is my daughter and it's exhausting, but at least now I understand.
Do we have the same mother??? I live in Europe after alllllllll the vids i saw about dysfunctional family dynamics this describes my "mum" best. I cut all ties last year very hard but i try to remother myself. I also have 2 younger brothers who are still involved. But they respect my choice. " alone " now without parents but feeling less lonely. Take care.
My ex is a covert narcissist. This was my second (my!) relationship with a narc and I thought I would be safe this time exactly because she seemed so quiet and centered. But soon enough began the stonewalling, gaslighting, raging and criticizing. I was able to leave sooner rather than later because since the first narc, I study a lot on the matter. Knowledge is power
Me too girl! It’s like when am I going to stop this cycle!!
Sam here. First Narc who was typical narc. Second covert one. Need therapy like never
@@joannawrzelikowska3273 I sweaaar
Its taken me 2.5 years with my ex who is a covert. The self pity and the need to constantly be rescued was so overwhelming. During the break up though she really imploded. Because she resorted to drugs and I was so kind to her during the break up, and was very close with her family... they all saw right through her facade and just watched as she destroyed her life and not a single one supported her. Which caused her to just continue to collapse and implode.
I paid most of the bills and she cried and cried about how it's not fair to her when I stopped paying her bills when we broke up. She has not recovered and is still doing drugs and is broke.
It was such a messy situation, but I must admit. In terms of a breakup with a narc, this is probably one of the closest things to justice that an empath could get and to this day I'm happy that I handled myself with strength, dignity and most importantly, kindness.
One of the most useful things I learned from this is how well covert narcissists (or those with covert tendencies) hide under the camouflage of other mental health conditions. That squares with my personal experience. My ex had combat-related PTSD, with the depression and anxiety that often accompanies that. It made his narcissism hard to see clearly. It also made communal gaslighting something that happens a lot, because in military circles leaving someone with PTSD earns you the scorn of your community. It means you've failed as a military spouse. His behavior isn't seen as the problem. You weren't strong enough, committed enough, loving enough, patriotic enough.
...or dumb enough 💪🏼
I’m going thru this right now. I have to leave, but have had to wait until he deployed. It was just to dangerous, to try. Plus having to be in a quarantine status prior to deployment has almost been unbearable. The explosive temper, my things would disappear, or he would take off with the dogs, and would leave me wondering if i would see them (the dogs again... i worried for their safety) now deployment has happened and i am starting to quietly get things in place. I feel blessed thought, that this was a 2nd marriage for both of us and there are no children involved, except the fur babies.
@@goldenpawlife , good luck and Godspeed! Get out while he is still deployed. Base legal services can represent one of you in a divorce, and it's first come first serve (they will help spouses, not just active duty members), so if you don't have or can't afford other legal help, (and if you trust them - unless he has personal friends there, they usually play fair) go see them TODAY. He may try to fight you legally for the fur babies because that's a path he can access to hurt you. Document any animal abuse, if you haven't already. If the vet has seen anything, that helps. Also, if the veterinary records have your name on them instead of his, that helps document ownership.
@@lorettanericcio-bohlman567 :-)
I'm sorry you experienced that. Ppl actively working to fix themselves sure cheerleaders and loved ones idealy should stay. Big difference when they refuse to fix themselves and expect you to keep copping their bs.
O shit I ended up alone .Lol That's ok I have a cat .To afraid to date .Empath here .Tired of being controlled manipulated .Being free an happy is worth it .Thank you again Dr
Could you do a video on children of covert narcissists and how to work on fixing the damage and trauma caused in childhood? Thank you so much, I absolutely love your channel. ❤️
I also like to request Dr. Ramani to make a video about children of divorced covert narcissistic parent(s).
Third this.
I would totally love to see that video. I've been dealing my whole life with what now i think may be a (cover?) narcissistic mother, who also struggles with depression and anxiety, and omg when she stops talking to me i feel so relaxed but so guilty at the same time...
I second this request. Please Dr Ramani could you speak about children of covert narcissists in one of your next videos?
How to explain to a child what is a covert narcissist and how to protect your child if a family member is a covert narcissist, and has regular contact with the child? Let's say a child in primary school. Thank you.
This three part series on the covert narcissist has been such an eye opening experience! I’m a 51 year old male nurse with extensive experience in emergency and mental health nursing. My wife if 28 years has been so totally difficult to live with over the years. It seemed like our marriage was already on the downhill slide after only being married for three years. I couldn’t understand why she was so cold and indifferent to me. She hadn’t been that way when we were dating….over the years I’ve never been able to understand how I could feel so totally alone and isolated when I was a married man. Nothing I did made any difference and believe me I tried! I gravitated to nursing because I was a healer. Not just a healer but a pretty strong empath. That means I always want to help, to fix people’s problems. That’s the way I approached her…..There was no fixing or helping her though. The harder I tried the more she pushed me away. At times I felt like she didn’t want to be a wife or even a mother to our son. My parents approached me one time and asked what was going on because our 12 year old was confiding in them and telling them about the horrible things that his mother was doing to him and the disrespectful way she was treating me…..I thought about taking my son and leaving…..but I loved her and I wasn’t ready to give up on her…..Fast forward to today. A month ago the wife of one of my best friends approached me. She had evidence that her overtly narcissistic serial cheater husband had something going with my wife. When I confronted her about it she tried to deny the affair….When told that there was both video and text message evidence she confessed to a 10 year Adulterous affair with this man. As she answered my questions I could tell she was calculating her every answer based on what she thought I have evidence of. Keep in mind I’m an experienced nurse with 30 years of emergency room and mental health nursing. I’ve gotten pretty good at determining if people are lying to me. My internal lie detector was pinging pretty hard as she tried to answer the questions. There’s some evidence that there have been more then one affair and there’s evidence that the affair she admitted to lasted much longer then the 10 years she’s told me. I came away thinking that I couldn’t trust her at all! That I wasn’t getting the whole truth…..There had to more going on here then just an unfaithful wife!
I began my search for answers based on something a friend told me. She said that she thought my wife was a narcissist. I didn’t think that could be true. She’s an introvert. Then I began to read and to watch you tube videos. OMG! I feel so ashamed that I never picked up on this before! As a nurse working in the fields that I have I should have figured this out years ago! I’ve been married to covert narcissist for 28 years! Suddenly everything came into focus!…..Her confession was a month ago….Now….As I look around at the desolation that was once our marriage all I see are pieces. Our son who’s almost 19 now has moved out and is staying with a friend. He won’t speak to his mother. She’s badly damaged him over the years and he’s done with her. I’ve seized control of my money from her and I’m quietly planning my exit strategy. I can’t be married to her anymore…..Meanwhile she’s angry that I’m grey rocking her. She apparently thought that her crocodile tears and hollow apology should have been accepted and life should be moving on as normal. She’s put the affair behind her and now is pointing to everything I’ve ever done to her as the reason for our marital issues. Of course our son is just being completely disrespectful of her! She doesn’t understand why he would go no contact with her. I’m an empath and the negativity in the house is always high. Now it’s been off the charts! 4 weeks ago I didn’t even know that covert narcissists existed. Now my life is being destroyed by one……I really appreciated this three part series. Your information and the way it’s presented is the best I’ve found. You’ve certainly helped me understand what I’m dealing with. I look forward to watching your other videos as well. Thank you for taking the time to post these. They are definitely appreciated!
I feel your anguish friend. 23 years here and I'm just seeing this for what it is. Unbelievable. May you find strength, hope and the peace love and understanding you deserve.
Thanks for sharing.
Yes thanks for sharing. I hope you are in a better place / situation one year later
Lool
O
On o
O
Feels like a HUGE breath of fresh air just being able to RECOGNIZE what's been occurring these past 4 years.... It's painful walking away but, I need to find ME again and discard the person I was being TOLD I was.... Thank you
Everything you say will be turned into an insult. It doesn't matter what you say, no matter how kind.
And actually sometimes the more I cared, the angrier my narc became. I could never understand that.
Wow, is that ever the truth! If you say, "we need to talk about the anger issue," they come back with, "you have no right to call me a terrible person! You treat me with such disrespect!"
Everything you say will be used against you...
SO TRUE. Literally happened to me yesterday with a very simple question (I have to have contact for co-parenting).
Yessssss. EVERYTHING. I finally just started to keep my mouth shut because everything I said was eventually used negatively against me.
Covert parents create so much tension and chaos in the family. As a child growing up in this environment, I used to feel so lost and alone. Even my relationship with my sister suffered because there was so much triangulation and scapegoating. We grew apart and eventually went our separate ways. The damage done by such parents is irreversible because children end up with trust and self esteem issues. It affects all our subsequent relationships.
Exactly! I am in therapy now trying to fix all the damage my family caused me.
L Lakes, good to know that you are getting help! All the best to you... sending lots of love and light!
Same. My family turned my siblings and I against each other. We have never got along because of that. We are all going our separate ways. I can't wait to finally get away from them. Peace at last. I was the family scapegoat. I'm the scapegoat everywhere I go. I'll have to deal with people like them everywhere I go. It sucks being me. I wish I could just be someone else. Some people in this world are just hated everywhere they go and I'm one of them. I hate myself. I'm thinking about suicide.
@Ashley They feed of undermining you, you are worth more than you know. Please, consider talking with someone.
I knew my mom was a bitch and I had issues, but I couldn't pinpoint the reasons for my problems or deal with them.
Until I had my daughter 3 years ago and I realized what I was missing. Heartbreaking and all that grieving is still happening. I know my mom is a narcissist now and I know I'm the scapegoat. Yes I'm still alone and nobody else in my life understands so I come here when I need that validation when I'm doubting myself. Love this channel!
I want to thank everyone for your comments. I finally left my covert narc husband
after giving up to him 30 years of the prime of my life. And yet I now look at him and feel so SORRY for him when I see his own hurt and deep insecurities. But reading your comments reminds me of the games and abuse that he put me through and how he stole my life, time, energy and identy. Yes, a insatiable vampire.
They really are. They will never stop trying to drain others of their energy. Best thing to do is cut them off. It’s wasted energy that they will never appreciate.
I called mine The Black Hole
@@mariefriedmann3203 that is actually perfect!
I am troubled that you feel sorry for him, given what he had stolen from you. He's not as hurt as you might think. On the inside he might be thinking: "Hee-hee. I manipulated her for 30 years. Hee-hee. What a weak pathetic fool, she is, hee-hee." They despise your empathy and love, they consider empathy and love weaknesses, something to be exploited for their benefit. They love no one, if they really have NPD. They may have a trauma bond to their mom, for example. Remember that everything to cover narcs is a game that they are desperately trying to win. They have no significant others or loved ones. All they are trying to do is get more out of you than you get out of them.
Important to remember that the insatiable energy has Them hostage too. They had no say in having this done to them.
i broke down and cried at work while listening to this. you have perfectly described my narc ex. the feeling of confusion, self-doubt and the tremendous pushing and pulling of your guilt by the narc to control you. i was unaware of the toxic dynamic i got myself into. thank you so much Dr Ramani for this video. much love from the Philippines 💕
Good for you for choosing to get out of that toxic, mentally and emotional taxing relationship! You saved your sanity.
Complete healing will take some time, but know that you are and you were strong enough to have chosen to distance yourself from the narc before they could trap you for another few decades, which often makes you lose yourself entirely. Now you are better discerning of people that come into your life and you now have the tools and experience to help you keep away from narcs you'll meet. Keep thriving! 🌝🇵🇭
This ❤️
You nailed it, Dr R!!! I was married to a covert narc for 32 years and just thought he was depressed for a long time. He was Mr Gloom and Doom and then there was his rage side too. Very awful to live with! I caught on after 16 years but had 3 kids to raise so I stayed. Last kid grew up and I left him and moved 250 miles away and cut off all contact with him. Life is so much better now!
This channel is growing like crazy, HELL YEAH!
True, an additional 30K in a about month and counting. Dr. Ramani, saving more lives..!!
I mention it on Quora.com sometimes. I'm sure others are also sharing since the relief we get from learning about this is something we want others to feel, too!
It's very therapeutic and confirms your experience, and you are not imagining things
Those "little jabs" can be dismissed on an individual basis, but add up over time (I describe them as small pocket knives twisted for effect).
I never understood how toxic "passive aggression" is over time.
I could comment on every single point you made......but you covered them all better than I ever could. Thanks!
"Death by 1,000 paper cuts"
You are so correct. It’s not just one little cut.....it’s one little cut/jab after another that build up so much that you have a gaping hole in your body.
Spot on
YES! I recently cut off my in laws because of this. It all adds up!
Im a psychologist from Iran . your insightful talks are really helpful to me
Dr.Hamidreza Hashemi Moghadam markwiens visited Iran and made some very tasty food videos in your country, I love lamb😋
Good! More need to be aware and knowledgeable. I
I'm glad you listen to her. Dysfunctional families are much worse in family based countries like for instance in Muslim countries where adult children from dysfunctional homes still live with their parents after they are married and have children. Lots of narcs in one household... Continued abuse throughout their life...
Anthony H be more specific. You love eating dead baby sheep.
Ruthy Can’t Fail yeah, as I’m trying to leave meat, I try to leave the conversation alone. Can’t take everyone with you.😊
Thank you! These videos are seriously changing my life. Currently trying to divorce a covert narc, and thankfully have an incredible therapist getting me through it. She was our marriage counsellor so she has an insight into the abuse. She pointed it out to me!! I felt so sorry for him and his depression and anger issues. These videos are shining a spotlight on the last 15 years of my life.
Wow, it all makes sense now. My ex showed narcissistic traits but didn't quite fit the mould as I understood it. Thank you so much. Now it's time to heal, it feels like I've been poisoned and it's taking way longer than I thought to be healthy again, I made the choice to stop self isolating recently and the world has opened up to me in all its glory, Its scary but I'm doing it anyway
I just left my husband who is a covert narcissist. One of the hardest things I’ve done in my life. Dr. Ramani is super on point with crying and things getting significantly worse when they are stressed out. And of course , the guilt aspect of it is such a powerful manipulation and it kept me in this relationship for a little over a year.
The light bulb just went off for me, I am separated from my spouse who is a covert narcissist. I haven't served her the divorce papers because of the guilt. I have already come to the conclusion that patterns will never change. Watching Dr. Ramani just gave me the confirmation I needed.
@@perkinst2 A person who loves you or cares about you even a little bit will go out of their way to AVOID guilt tripping you or putting on a pity play. A person who is guilt tripping you does NOT love you and is trying to manipulate you for their own benefit.
This is always word for word what happened to me. Still going through The break up now and it’s so tough 😪
I am stuck in a relationship with a covert narcissist. It is so hard to leave. I did once but got sucked back in. And here I am.
Not true? You need to live in the real world. People do things they sometimes regret. You live in a dream world. @@michaelhart8257
I became friends with her because she said she wanted to be more like me. She painted a picture like she had always been a sad victim that people used and threw away. It was such a shock to realize that what she actually does is create an environment where she controls EVERYTHING and then cries about how much she does for everyone. If you don't let her control you, she's mean and talks down to you until you finally submit and then she turns around and says you're taking advantage of her. She is always a victim, even of her own emotionally abusive actions.
You stated this perfectly! Damn!
Sounds like BPD
I needed to hear this!!! I’m coming to terms that my own best friend is this person and I’m beginning to understand why she doesn’t have any friends…
the same thing happened to me. When i didnt submit to her, she became mad and even threaten me. When i got to realize what she was doing, i step back from her and The first thing she did was to turn everyone from the work against me. But you cant hide your true face forever.
I recommend you all to watch HBO series 'Big Little Lies'. There are so many narcissists, a lot of toxic behaviours, trauma bond in abusive relationship, grandiose narcissists parents using their child as a tool or a part of their image, and with them HSPs and empaths with their own parent-related traumas. Watch and practice your narc dynamic knowlege ;)
That show is the PERFECT description! I loved it and all it's psychological wonders
Bojack horseman too
The anger all of the time would have me in my own home feeling so small and confused on what my actual reality was
I was in a relationship for more than year and a half and watching this has made me so confident on my decision to leave. Honestly my biggest fear is what will be of him without me there to support him and that maybe I should have "fought harder for the relationship" but thank you Doctor. Therapy has opened my eyes and this videos are such great source for insight.
Same for me!
From the bottom of my heart, thank you for all you do. ❤
Elizabeth Ciccantelli,You are beautiful, hope you are not with a narcissist....
Oh, my gosh! When Dr. Ramani leaned forward and said, "Tell me everything!" the hair stood up on the back of my neck. That is almost exactly what my vulnerable narc did when we first met in person. It was a bit off-putting but seemed sincere. The love bombing phase involved flights across country to see me that I thought were excessively expensive (we had met online). I am finally getting a divorce after decades of misery. Now the self-proclaimed victimhood is turning into a smear campaign with my grown kids. It's really devastating to be painted as the one who is being so mean to the poor, vulnerable narc, when it's really a vindictive strategy to punish me for daring to leave.
Hang in there ; it’s better to be without this vampire; the truth will always eventually expose itself .
You know what you know and feel inside is real. Use that as your guiding light towards freedom.
Glad you're out!! Best wishes to you
@@pure9593 Thank you for your good wishes. I wish the best of strength and healing for you.
This is what is going to happen to me--smear campaign to turn my child "against" me. I'm dreading it but know I have to leave. He's incapable of seeing that the person this hurts the most is our son.
Suggesting a topic: why narcissist has no sense of humor and can't accept jokes or make jokes about himself.
Yep.
this.
I'd guess because they are in secure
They want you to laugh with them not at them
@@femininefun1637 yep. And if you will not find their joke funny they take it very seriously and feel hurt.
Wow. To finally have a name for what my sister has always been. It’s like you’ve met her! Her “victimization” of choice has always been hypochondria. Listening to you has truly helped validate my feelings. I finally freed myself from her a few years ago and I recently left a job of 23 years, with a narcissistic boss. Gaslighting was her specialty! Educating myself is helping me to understand my empathic nature and how I’m a magnet for these despicable people. Thank you so much.
The lovebombing is quiet but it’s there, it’s constant. They really get inside your heart, rip it out and leave
Thank you so much for all your insight into covert narcissism. You’re totally right about how difficult it is to tell whether someone is a covert narcissist, or if they’re just struggling with some psychological disorder. One of the differences I noticed was that my narcissistic ex was so easily angered and how much he hated all people. There was so much negativity surrounding him that it was suffocating. At one point, I thought I could potentially be a covert narcissist, but then I realized I’m way too empathetic and loving to be a narcissist. I can’t stand it when I feel like I’ve hurt someone, and I will go above and beyond to make it up to them. My narcissistic never gave me a sincere apology, no matter how much he hurt me. Sure, they seem to be victims, but they’ll only victimize anyone that gets too close to them. Next thing you know, you’re trying to put all the broken pieces of your life together while they are on the lookout for another unsuspecting person who they can cling onto. It’s a life altering experience that will leave you completely broken and traumatized.
Well said 👌
I felt that suffocating feeling, especially in their silent treatment of their brooding anger. They only victimize those closest to them, So TRUE! Overly critical, negative, resentful and bitter people.
Ironically they play the eternal victim But they are the ones who victimize others.
They don't have the charm or social standing of a grandiose narcissist, so they pull their prey in one at a time. Playing victim is the modus operandi. When you offfer the "love they claim they never got, if by then they've gotten what they want, contempt for you sets in as they try to weasel out.
@@phoenixrising8007 Well said 👌! Eternal victim is the perfect descriptor.
Absolutely
To family they are victims. For the rest outside they try to play it cool, nice.
Haha! My husband cheated on me with a girl 10 years younger and when I filed for a divorce he looked at me and said he loves the wrinkles around my lips 🤣🤣🤣 please don’t leave me 🤯
the charmer of the century....
Wow! That's crazy.
HAH!!!! That’s crazy and SOoooooo shallow! I bet he’s a real stud muffin too. You are better off without him. My NEX gf was 10 years younger than me. She pursued me and after two years together told me I was too old. Of course she found a shiny new object to provide attention. Less than a month later she hoovered me saying she’s done some soul searching and wanted to talk. TRANSLATION: the boy toy didn’t work out and now I want you to provide me attention till I do the same thing to you again at some point in the near future. No thanks we don’t need those kind of people in our lives. I’m sure you are beautiful just the way you are!
Its a compliment and insult, 2 in 1 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Never even heard “covert narcissist” before… you’ve blown my mind and finally have been able to provide so much clarity for me and my situation. I truly appreciate the videos…
I’m now free of my 4yr+ relationship with what I now know was a covert narc. I felt suffocated, spied on, untrusted, controlled & bullied for over 3 years of that relationship. Always the victim and moaning about everyone, everything and putting everyone including myself down was exhausting. Thank you for you video’s and helping me to understand and decide to end the relationship
My ex actually told me about his childhood and the abuse he endured often...it definitely worked on me and is why it took me 8 months of back and forth to finally break out of the 2 year relationship. He still tried luring me back in after all that we went through. Just ridiculous. Very tough.
N O C O N T A C T!...........Dont ever reach out to them! EVER!
My ex always told me sad stories about past relationships, so it made me feel like I had to be her a protector. It made me feel like I had an obligation to help out and pull her out of her depression. Naturally because I didn't wanna see her like that even though I have my own issues.
I never though it would be used against me as a tactic.
The sob stories about her past relationships was just to draw you in. I bet she was the problem in all those relationships. Let me guess, the drama began very early in the relationship...
So true... I recently met a guy who was a sob story singer.... The moment you start speaking they will shut their ears and will cut you to continue their blah blah. You have a tragedy and they will be first to blame you for the problem ans show what a big hero they are to overcome bigger issue... I removed him immediately from my life. It's sad and depressing to be alone and only encounter such fake people.
I went no contact with my family 3 years ago. They are still trying to contact me. I don't understand why people can't just leave me alone.
@@pandoraw259 I hope you get some peace. Maybe at some point she'll let you be. I think my ex knows better not to reach for me. I'm not playing games on the 2nd go around. I dont give a shit what she has going on. I gave my heart, empathy, and understanding to her and she made a choice. The choice was not to do right by me. Her loss. I hope you have a good day and evening Ashley❤
@@NS-uq9st exactly you can tell almost immediately they aren't interested in whatever you tell them. I'm glad I didn't pour my heart out to my ex
Please Dr.Ramani do a video about differences between passive-aggressive person and covert narcissism.
Is there a difference? I thought they were synonymous. ( But, Yes, that would be a good video subject).
Sometimes I'm passive agressive. But I hope I'm not a narcissist. At least - I hate when I am passive aggressive.
I thought of him as a coward because he was always hiding, never wanted to confront his true issues, was so scared of therapy or talking to his own wife about his problems, and would never do anything about his seemingly chronic unhappiness. Nothing I did was ever enough, and i see now that it was never going to be. I've felt so badly about the part I played in it but I'm starting to see what I was truly up against. I'm so glad I found Dr. Ramani's channel!
I'm 58 and having 2 covert nasissist parents. I spent a lot of my childhood looking in mirrors. Not because of vanity, I needed to check that I, actually existed!...
After 15 years with a covert narcissist he left me with nothing, no money, no confidence, bad health, I developed Multiple sclerosis during our relationship and he moved on to the next victim.
I'm sorry you experienced that. I hope you have good support now x
I hope that removing stress has helped lessen the symptoms of MS....stay strong
I'm so sorry. I can relate, and you're not alone. I hope your life is so much better now!
My mom was a covert narcissist. We were VERY isolated. Many times, I had to bargain with her or flatter her just to visit friends or even go out and ride my bike. I never wanted to go anywhere with her because she'd be angry the whole time and insult everyone around her (so only I or my dad could hear). That was too much for a little kid to handle or want to hear when I was just trying to have a good time at a park or something.
I feel you on this. My mom never wanted to go to my games because of the other moms and how “judgmental” they were. They weren’t, my mom never actually introduced herself to earn her right to call them that. I understand the bargain that came with wanting to go out. I now realize how common this is, just by seeing your comment and a few others. It’s honestly exhausting having to keep up with the fluctuating behaviors. There was (still is) constant fear when being around her because neither my stepdad or I know how she’s going to act. Often she fluctuates between being angry at us. Some days it’s my stepdad and some days it’s me. It’s so good to know that I’m not alone in this and there are people I can reach out to.
I grew up with a similar relative. It was so stressful to go anywhere with them as a kid I found myself apologizing to waiters shop clerk's or whoever she was snarking at which was everyone we came into contact with!
@@hamedhojjati4950 encourage her to get permanent birth control before you part so no more will be brought into this world and subjected to her toxic behavioral pathologies.
Oh god, this is so true. My covert narcissist was so vulnerable and visibly broken and .... needy, initially the relationship was simply about him finding the space healing, so I was fine with him being around. He kept seeking more, being there. He was in love from the start, wanted to move in within a few months and I was like "this is infatuation, but harmless". It wasn't! This was a parasite! So intent, so seemingly committed... and yet there was something always off, but I kept taking his word on good faith.
He was in love from the first time we met, wanted to move in months after we met, pursued that escalation for a solid 2 years before I gave in. While leaving, he accused me of trying to trap me. I was like I was putting on the brakes all through because you didn't seem authentic! YOU convinced me every step of the way!!!
These people are nuts! I hate the word "manipulative" because this implies that they do it with intent. That is not the case, it is unconscious manipulation, & you as a mental health provider should state this fact so ppl aren't confused....narcisists are not grounded in reality...much like a schizophrenic. Only a psychopath truly manipulates with intent or are goal oriented. Other personality disordered people unconsciously manipulate because they are confused or are nuts or need therapy.
I just finished all 3 parts, I feel like I drank from a firehose of truth and validation. “I can be the one”. My stupid mantra throughout my relationship...at my my own degradation of character....Thank you Dr. Ramani.
Oh that's so sad. That's what I thought in my mind. You think if you hang in there you can be the one to be good to them, help them, and be the strong person to be there for them. This especially is a natural inclination as men.
Sometimes they even make you compete to be the one through triangulation. That's what happened to me. And they'll tell you about the others.
After three years and headed to a moved in relationship, my CN, went passive aggressive the FIRST time I tearfully told him that he hurt my feelings. This strange behavior caused me to research for months every study, every webinar, every article that I could find from professionals -- psychiatrists, psychologists. My eyes were opened to a person who lived in his own false reality and only then did I see all the symptoms converge, all the little things I overlooked and excused. One feels sorry for them when this is recognized, yet to me it is relatively easy to stop loving a fake persona. . . . DR. RAMANI YOU ARE A GEM, AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE MUST THANK YOU
"all the little things I overlooked and excused" IMO, being unable to recognice some toxic patterns can have 2 bad consequences. Fist, what you said: they´re overlooked or excused. Second, it can be really difficult to explain to someone else what is actually the problem in that relationship.
Thousands??
I think my ex is a covert with some overt tendencies and also, I think he has BPD. I was with him for 10 months. The love bombing lasted for about 2 months and his mask was starting to slip. I would describe my relationship with him as a roller-coaster ride with a ton of whiplash. Most of the time the things that came of his mouth didn't match his actions. It left me very confused and I felt like I was going crazy. This person was extremely childlike. I felt like I was parenting this individual (who is 35 years old) on how to be a decent human being and the best kicker to this was teaching him how to apologize correctly.... Smh...... I feel like these are some of the things you should know already and not having to learn it at 35. It was jarring to be on that roller-coaster. I am glad I am off it now and started my healing.
My ex was clinically diagnosed with bpd and act the same ,older then me but felt like I was raising him
Their answer to that is ‘I don’t know how’. It’s pretty ironic how they mimic people and steal their identities, yet are not remotely able to learn how to apologize! LOL
Even the old bags have no clue why they do things. They know what they are doing, however. They won’t accept that they do terrible things to make themselves feel better.
@@MeadeSkeltonMusic jesus christ.... I KNEW there were narcisissts on these comments sections too!
You are NOT welcome here.
And you are NOT a real "christian."
How rude. But what can you expect from Narcissists.
🤢🤮
I am glad that this 35 year old child is your EX. I hope you are either happy single now, or have found a new partner that respects you and treats you like a king! ☺️❤️🧡💛💚💙💜
That is exactly how my ex-bf is. He's older than me, and seems really immature. Being with him was like rasing a child. I've had SO many conversations with him where things he said were just.... over the top, inappropriate, immature, ignorant, child-like, or I knew they were total BS.
I think he is a covert narc and has BPD. I told him about the BPD on day when we were chatting on Messenger and he was flipping out. He was blowing up the chat. I said I knew what was going on with him, and he needed to get to counseling, and get a proper diagnosis. Well. That turned into "I don't think we should be BFFs anymore cuz you aren't helping me - you are a bad person." He didn't understand my point. I don't have a license - it isn't ethical for me to "diagnose" people I have dated, family, or friends. He didn't care. Kept blowing up my chat. So I finally told him "Fine - I think you have borderline personality disorder. Now quit bugging me."
I've did tell him I believe he wears a mask. Of course he does, with BPD, he has no idea who the eff he is. He just picked an archetype and followed that. I have indicated that he has no idea what his "true" personality is. I have not indicated that I know he has narcissism. I do not know if HE is aware that he has narcissism. That would be interesting to find out.
I need to go no contact. I haven't yet. I know I need to. Cuz I don't trust a damn thing he says, he's constantly antagonistic, complaining, and argumentative. Then of course there's the emotional vampire thing. Like all covert narcs he's a giant energy sucker. And I'm an empath. It's like they KNOW how to find us!!!!
Omg! The first time I really saw the covert rage was 7 plus years into my marriage. I was blissfully pregnant. He my mom am I we’re painting the baby’s room. Of course I stripped decades of wall paper off on my own and a friend that helped me. So now the three of us are painting, it is a lovely day. I grew up with parents that would buy homes, redo them and make $. While were painting I suggested a tip my folks used. The Narc looked at me with a look I had never seen before. He left the room. My mom and I looked at each other with the wtf question in the air. That was really the first time he raged. I found out later he was having an affair. I believe he always did have an outside supply. I fell into the supporting wife from the get go! Ugh so glad I am out.
Was he never narcissistic before that?
@@r2488 Yes, but more slick
I finally thought I met someone nice but felt something was off at the same time. He got really vulnerable really quickly and was always down. Nothing I said would help and he kept asking me really odd personal questions. I assumed he's just socially awkward or I'm overreacting and felt a sort of weird fascination and a need to help him. He never said anything nice about me, only passive aggresive 'jokes'. I started noticing my self esteem going down fast and my anxiety coming back. I kept telling myself 'trust your gut no matter what' but now I'm actually doing it. The hope, guilt, fear trifecta really resonated with me. Thank you, dr. Ramani! Your videos are my sounding board.
I had the exact same situation!! Also so glad I recognized after 3 months that sth was off. I think he would’ve gotten so dangerous.
I have asked myself if *I* was the covert narcissist, and I have realized it was not me, but them, and my exhaustion from fighting their negativity after years, that wore me down and made me more negative. What snapped me out of it was when I started to make changes, grow, and return to my more positive and kind self again, they LOST IT. They were threatened, threatened to leave, threatened me with neglect, and became overtly mean to me. Lots of backhanded compliments, as you mentioned. If I was the narcissist, they wouldn't have immediately tried to take me down a peg when I started to be more positive again.
You are so correct! I felt sorry for my husband when I met him and it was on that basis that we started to date. He lead me to believe that he went through a lot and of course like an empath that I am, I wanted to rescue him etc. Well, you can guess how that turned out - still on my way to recovery. Very toxic individuals!! Stay clear of them!
Avoid the underdog’
I have been single three years since divorcing my covert narc. This guy at work asked me out the other day, we had spoken a couple of times but when we talked he was always talking about "poor me" so my body started ignoring him. Like when he would walk into a room i immediately wanted to leave or go the other way to avoid him. My brain is like, hmmm, he seems like a nice guy but i have decided to decline his invitation. I think that is how they start off with them wanted a rescue and my body feels it.
@@camilleharris3457 a guy I don't even know keeps calling me and telling me sob stories about how lonely he is and just wants to talk. He wants me to go second hand store shopping with him and I texted him "No," and then I blocked his number. Well, he just called me with a different number. It's not my responsibility to explain to him that we're in the middle of a pandemic. I also don't feel like I should have to explain to him that I was in an accident and don't walk very well and don't feel like getting into a relationship with anybody while I'm healing. He also called me by the wrong name in his message. Call me old Stony heart, but I don't feel sorry for him. This message was all about how lonely he was because of the pandemic. He never asked how I feel.
@@heidihaeni7783 I think you are correct in ignoring him, that is very concerning that he would attempt to contact you again after you blocked him. Hopefully he does not know where you live. He sounds incredibly toxic and i hope you stay away from him. If contact persists i would document in case you have to get a restraining order, that sounds crazy but honestly this is how that stuff starts. Stay safe!
I did exactly the same, feeling sorry for him was a natural thing to do at the time however I was drawn in like yourself, I was young and stupid. We got married what a difficult time, two children later, grown up and it took one of them to tell me to get out of the relationship he is a narcissist. I’m out now. Very emotionally draining. Thank you we can over come these things with help, it’s finding that help that’s the hard thing!
Dr Ramani, you made reference to "reaction formation" in this video. I've heard you use this term before and would love to hear it defined in your Glossary Series.
Thanks so much for al you do!
I would like your opinion on the connection between those with high functioning asberger's and covert narcissists. I can't determine which my spouse is because they fit both categories.
Yes that is an excellent suggestion! I was married to someone with Aspergers but showed many narcissistic traits also 🤔
my current girlfriend claims she is on the spectrum, she is continually passive aggressive, cannot ask a direct question a out anything, is a continual victim of everyone around her, she doesnt gaslight, but is constantly demeaning, resentful, unforgiving, and when she rages she has become physically abusive on multiple occasions and one sided verbal attacks over minor or perceived criticism. she also became sexually abusive on one occasion,
I think people who aren’t born a covert narc (or deep into it) have a lot more empathy and can realize they are so awful. My SO mostly fits covert narc except that they are able to acknowledge their selfish gaslighting tendencies. My SO wants to change and I’ve seen changes. Now in fights they are able to step back during fights and slow they. They have a better perception of reality and that they just feel so insecure and hurt. I think it’s because my SO is not born a narc but rather learned a lot of traits by being raised by one. They were constantly put down and verbally abused but they don’t want to be that way now so they are putting in work to change their defense styles.
I think maybe it’s more just they have a narcissistic defense style in reaction to critique and painful situations.
One initial red flag I’ve had with many narcissists is when I’m going through a crisis with another narc. The narcissist makes me feel like there must have been something I did to warrant the attack. Before I knew this friend or loved one was a narc, this red flag got my attention. I try to rationalize and think “Maybe they just don’t understand”, “Maybe they just don’t like to think anything negative about others”. But what it is, a narc doesn’t want to see narcissism in another narc.
Yes! My ex did the same with me. I had an intense and immediate falling out with someone who was a good friend, but I think I started recognizing narc traits in him. The less I sympathized and the more I called him out... well that led him to throw the entire friendship in the bin. It was very painful. And my ex, who I was with at the time, saw how hurt I was, and took his side repeatedly, for years! It was infuriating
More like "A narc doesn't quite recognize narcissism in another narc." I see the same thing with my sister. I've said it repeatedly that my other sister is an overt narc but then I realised why she only sees "she's just not understanding" etc. but never confirms herself the narc traits because SHE herself is also a narcissist. A covert narcissist. I guess they get their blinders on with other narcissists. I've been on the losing end trying to understand things from their point of view only to realise that they CAN'T seem to see ANY view other than their own.
Maibi stop looking for validation from toxic ppl , it dosent make sence
Book therapy
Venting to toxic ppl wil just shame U and minimize ur experience
@@happym3008 Yes, they will just throw all the blame onto u & tell u all ur faults. U will feel shame, disrespect & deep sadness.
When a human I don’t care who they are say ur crazy 😜 no that shit not funny dip shit done with them 🙏🏽🙌
"Manipulate through victimhood" - oh yes! Him acting self-deprecating was really fishing for compliments.
My dad is definitely a covert narcissist. So glad I cut him out of my life.
But now I’m scared that I am one too or at least have very strong tendencies
Pixieface,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🥀,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
Me too but I have bpd due to my childhood I think. Cluster b personalities suck. Hate that it's part of me.
There is a genetic component to narcissism. So you seeing tendencies in yourself may be real. The good news is that you are introspecting and you do not want to be a narcissist. This might mean you are not one. Narcissists embrace who they are and rarely introspect. Another good news is that even if you have strong tendencies, consistent therapy can alleviate them.
I’ve wasted a lot of time, and precious soulful energy on the covert narcissism’s in my life...girl it’s time to heal yourself! Thank you for helping me understand that it’s not my fault.
Thank you so much Dr. Ramani! I could not wait for this episode to come out this morning. I took in my father at the end of last year and it has been an incredible struggle to find a way to coexist with his Covert Narcissistic patterns. I also ended and walked away from a relationship with boyfriend of seven years because I was able to see the cycle of abuse repeating itself. This content has given me the strength to change my own patterns and let go of the responsibility and guilt I feel for caring for people who will not change. Aloha and Mahalo!
SL, can all of us come visit in Hawaii? 😂
You are an angel sent from heaven. I have been trying to put the pieces together since my teens about why & how is my mother this way, why does she think like this, why does she make these choices. It was literally driving me mad to the point to where I started therapy. She never was happy, nothing anybody did was enough, she complained that her life could've been better if blah blah blah, & everything was my fault because I'm the golden child (even me existing was my fault) ... Ive just recently in the past 3 years started TRYING to tell her about herself & each time it gets NOWHERE. I started my research here a couple days ago & stumbled across your videos. The first 5 mins into the video, I literally felt like my prayers had been answered, you described EVERYTHING about the person I love sooo much 😞. I feel so relieved yet saddened that I literally have to treat my mother almost like a mental patient. I never asked for this but understanding what I dealt with in my entire life is A LOT easier now thanks to you. I now know I need help as to how to deal with her because I love her so much & she has grandsons that love her too, but, she makes it so difficult to even be around her for a certain amount of time...
Sorry I kinda poured my heart out, but I just wanted to thank you. You have really helped me. 🙏🏾
You area wonderful teacher! I am 66 yrs old and my mother is dead now , 12+ yrs on, but I am still learning and trying to forgive my mother who was a SUPREME covert narcissist. It hurt my self esteem so much when I was younger, but I married a wonderful, kind and caring man and we are coming up on 40 years of marriage. Thank you so much! My mind is being blown with insights and feelings of gratitude to you. Thank you so very very much!
Dr. Ramani is Dead on 100%
On a side note:
I remember how Secretive and Sketchy they could be. And that the children will be told to lie and cover for the parent. I remember a lot of Lying by omission and being very misleading.
Manipulation and Control is a big one gor them
Nailed it again! Dr. Ramani these videos have been such a blessing! I found them while in a relationship with a covert narcissist, not realizing what was happening. They've helped me SO MUCH and have helped me stay strong. Because of these videos, I've felt more empowered and finally left this toxic relationship. THANK YOU!
I cannot thank you enough Dr Ramani!❤️ I just got out of, now it seems, a covert narcissistic codependent relationship that was highly toxic. Having parents that were both abusive narcissists had be drawn to relationship that felt familiar. It wasn’t until I stumbled up on these videos that I got some real insight & clarity on why I was in the relationship and - thank goodness- I was right to step away. I know the red flags now for the future. Bless you!!
Oh wow, this is uncannily accurate about my mom. She was “socially clumsy,” rage full, brittle, and rude. She isolated me because she felt we were somehow better than a lot of people. She was casually so cruel and passive aggressive. And a forever victim.
As much as it hurts to listen to this, it is comforting to realize that Im not alone and crazy. Thank you so much, Dr. Ramani for every explanation and kind word ♥️
This matches 100% my case. Wow thank you. It is so reinsuring as it is a very tricky relationship and those who haven't been through this wouldn't understand.
Caroline Leszewski,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🥀,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
Oh my gosh, this is mind blowing. There are so many of us out here, suffering for years, manacled to these damaged and distorted individuals, and fooled into questioning our own sanity. For once I don’t feel so alone and desperate... just to hear it all explained and acknowledged with such professionalism and sensitivity. Thank you, sincerely. Best wishes to all the good brave souls out there, wearing themselves out just trying to do the right thing.
@@silverfish8059 We are all together in this (actually not alone) 🙏💕 take care!
I was 2.5 years with converted narcissists. I am emotionally exhausted, deppresed and dealing with anxiety and guilt. I have gaps in my memory, and i feel like i don't know who i am anymore. I was gaslighted to the points of madness, ridiculed and blamed for being a women. Was called "attention whore" when i wanted to spend time with other people, yet i was feeling guilty that he is "not enough" for me. I was blaming myself upon some time ago when my friend send me the posts he makes about me. Complete lies that put him in the victim place. He is looking for another fool who will come and safe him, and i feel so sorry for anyone who will come across..
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You changed my life in a matter of days! Understanding what I've been trying to understand for three decades now, makes everything so much easier to navigate.
The pandemic definitely made everything worse too as far as being stuck in the house with the narcissist! Sometimes you just have to go out for a long drive or a nice long walk to catch a breath of fresh air and sunshine in your life.
Dr. Ramani, please do a video on how/why people like myself end up with covert narcissist partners again and again and again.
I didn’t realize it until very recently when I discovered your videos. I was married to a CN and mother of my children for 12 years. My most significant relationship before that was even worse, and now this year it’s happening again with someone new.
Help me understand! Whom is seeking out whom and why?
Boy, oh boy, can I relate! I had a similar question and asked my therapist. She said toxic personalities tend to seek out people who are kind, empathetic and compassionate, probably because they see us as easy to manipulate. With every red flag, I found myself making excuses for the abuser and my compassionate, empathetic nature was certainly not doing me any favors. It only allowed the abuser to continue their cycle of abuse with my approval. Moving forward, I think it's important for empaths, such as myself to recognize the red flags for exactly what they are. I forget who originally said this, but when someone shows you who they are, believe them. Don't make excuses! Don't change who you are, but create boundaries for yourself and enter new relationships with discernment. That's my advice for myself anyway. Good luck to you!
You need to focus on yourself, heal before getting into anything else. Learn to spot early patterns and red flags, reflect and create proper boundaries with yourself and with your partner.
You’re most likely codependent, and as a result have weak boundaries, maybe you’re too nice and not firm enough with others. You are the perfect target for covert narcs and narcs in general, easy supply and they know you’ll always be empathetic to them with a helper role
Speaking from experience man, I’m only 23 but I can tell. My ex was a covert, only took me one bad relationship to fix it and never been better. Reflected on the relationship and observed my poor boundaries, and constantly putting effort but requiring none for myself.
Something I’ve researched and my therapist pointed out is having a parent who is a narcissist puts you at risk of choosing partners that are also narcissists, especially if your role was the scapegoat or golden child. For example, my sibling who was golden, has chosen women exactly like our narc mother. It’s eerie. Myself, the scapegoathave chosen male versions of my mother, who engage in the same behaviors as my mother did growing up.
Something worth looking at…and for me, I actually feel subconsciously attracted to the chaos. It feels like home so I’m super careful about people now.
My ex saw no value in women. When he was building "our" home, I said you build a house, I make it a home. He ignored it. Now I see he was thinking we don't need a home, I 💪am building a house!
Idk, I never got a compliment, maybe one thank you in 4 1/2 yrs, and one sorry that was said while rolling his eyes. NC since a vicious discard. I thought this guy has been hurt and now that he finally has someone loyal and he can trust, we will have a great relationship. Nothing was ever reciprocated. It was all about him. All attention had to be on making him happy. Poor him. It was a complete confusing mind f***.
deb sabatino OMG - yay, he is an EX!
The reciprocate part i can totally relate too, i remember when i was in trade school, my narc friend use to call check up on me to see if i was well once he got me where i wanted he stop reciprocating.. one time we had to go town but something came up i had to live but i couldnt call him cause i didnt had no creds,and nobody didnt see whr i go he never call me to see if i was dead or alive
My ex said once that no matter which woman you have sex with, after the deed you want to shit on their belly. I was so shocked that I couldn’t even give a response...later I justified this to myself as a joke.
Congratulations on making him an ex.
Hope, fear, and guilt defined my whole experience with a narcissist. Spot on analysis!
No apologies EVER. It is never their fault.
Or it is offered in a passive aggressive way.
I spent 10 + years with friends like this. They are also obsessed with humiliation. I did feel bad for them even till this day.
Sadly I’ve had several run ins with the incel community, but I’ve never stopped and thought about them as likely covert narcissists. It makes so much sense 😮
I would like you to talk about the ultra competent covert narcissist. Not the woe is me type--but one who has many accomplishments.
They may secretly be a "woe is me" type without sharing it with others. I would describe myself this way--I am a medical student and tend to be very private about my neuroticism, but when I connect with people I share it quite openly. I'm not the picture of success or anything like that, but from conventional measures it may seem like I'm doing very well. In truth I am high-functioning but struggle under high stress circumstances with criticism, comparisons to others, feeling like a victim of my childhood, seeing the establishment as broken and stacked against "people like me," etc. I have excellent social skills and public speaking/performative abilities with effort, but I despise big groups and may clam up, seethe or act resentful around people I may deem "typical." This may not be the case with the person you're thinking of, so it's just one perspective. Cheers.
Thank you so much for all that you do. Your videos have helped me understand what was really going on in my relationship.
Can u do a session for the ex wife of covert narcissistic wife how we can help ourselves specially if we have children
I’ve been no contact with my covert narcissist mother for six months now and these videos have really helped me. Thank you so much for your knowledge
Thank you for making this video. I join in with all the others who have recently left someone displaying all these behaviours. I've been relentlessly criticised for my physical appearance, for my personality and "being too nice" to people, for my business and the way I chose to grieve my previous late boyfriend and my pets, every aspect of my life has been annihilated by him. He is 47 and hadn't had a long term relationship since his late twenties/early 30s. I felt so sad when I heard his stories about his childhood neglect, bullying and body image issues. Now I clearly hear the way he talks about others, the way he condescends, the way he intimidates and overpowers. Just like a comment below, I have never felt such calm finally being out of it. If anyone reading this is wondering if this too is their partner, please try and find a way out. He isn't in my life any more but his voice is in my head. I look forward to bestowing it with compassion and rationality, because although he will never change, his voice inside me will. Lots of love guys x
Just wow. This goes to show you can always learn more, even though I've been binging and reading on the topic for a while now. I thought I had identified my father as grandiose, but now I realize he clearly has some of the patterns explained in this video. Especially the strong display of contempt for social events/situations that make him uncomfortable. I'm looking forward to learning more about the other types and the final episode(s) on "hybrid" narcissists, to better understand this. But I probably saw my father as grandiose because of our parent-child interactions, where he was never shy of telling us pretty literally how god-like he was, but I'm having a "duh" moment and realizing that's because he was in a position of power, relative to us as his children. He always, always acts somewhat superior, and no one has ever seen him cry, he's really not a big fan of the victim stance. He never complains about how life hasn't given him a fair chance or anything similar, instead he thinks it's a dog eat dog world, usually thinks of himself as a winner and tries to show zero weakness. So I don't think he's a 100% covert, but he 100% does frame his discomfort or straight-up fear of social situations as utter contempt, that's one very covert thing about him. I think basically he's always created a small isolated social bubble of docile people around him (mostly wife and family), where he can be the cock of the walk, and systematically despises on the people and situations he can't control and where he wouldn't get away with it (which is a LOT of people and situations now that I think of it). The guy basically needs a captive audience.
One thing I'm sure is I'm a guilt driven "fixer"big time, that much is certain, and I've had true 100% coverts in my life that check every single box, and that I've had the haaaardest time "abandoning" them. Heck, I used to feel guilty about abandoning raging people, so someone who's crying and genuinely distressed was next level for me.