Thanks, Walter! I will say that one of my biggest pet-peeves with the industry discussing pricing is their focus on *average* MSRP. That's misleading even when only looking at one segment of cars, and it becomes even more deceptive when comparing two different segments of cars. The main issue is, a $3 million Bugatti that sells in the dozens per year is counted the same as a $25,000 Toyota that sells in the hundreds of thousands per year. That pulls the average MSRP up by quite a bit. The better metric is the *median* new car purchase price. That gives a much more honest, transparent view of the market. It's certainly possible that when using the median new car purchase price, EVs are still 10% to 20% higher than ICEVs, but at that point, your argument applies. We need to be looking at similar classes of vehicle.
It will get balanced over time. EX30, Bolt v2, EV3 should swing things in the right direction. Total agree that the single number method fails in the face of logic
Makes sense to me, Walter! And even if we don't yet have price parity, there is no doubt that when we add up the costs over the lifetime of a car, EVs are most certainly a cheaper, better deal.
Agree. Parity aside, TCO is unarguable at this point. I love that a week from monday will be the first time my Volvo is in the shop at 50k miles and it is just getting a new set of tires.
I think EVs are getting very close to price parity with ICE for consumer vehicles. But, heavy-duty vehicles, such as school buses, are still at nowhere near parity. The part I really don't get is that , in theory, one should be able to approximate the price for an electric bus by starting with the price of a diesel bus, an adding in the cost of the battery (at $100-$150/kWh). Yet, the actual price difference between an electric school bus vs. a diesel school bus ends up being several times higher than this. Hopefully, increasing volume of electric trucks and buses will drive economies of scale and push prices downwards, because at current battery prices, the cost difference between electric vs. diesel should not be nearly as high as it is.
Unless there's dealer incentives, that parity is not quite there yet. MSRP in some cases is still about 10k off. The tax rebate makes a dent but still not apples to apples.
Hi Walter, "Love your videos! I have some thoughts on hybrid vehicles (they still use gas). Could you do a segment on hybrids with your no-nonsense approach?"
Solid analysis. I agree with you. BMW thinks their next gen EVs (which start production next year!) will be cheaper than the ICE equivalents. Which is why they aren't doing a next generation of ICE cars!
lol, so messed up. We have a better product, but we don't want to make it because it will hurt our other products. lol. Thx for watching and the nice comment.
I know battery prices are coming down because of reduced Li prices, but I wonder if the projections of price decreases going forward are mainly due to LFP. Any idea?
I actually think the focus on battery pack pricing alone to be short sighted, but the price of Li I think is a part of a whole instead of the majority factor.
I honestly could care less about price parity I want a 20 to 25k ev available to purchase with 150kw charging and at least 350 miles of range once you have that the adoption rate will increase
If you just look at trim level and same vehicle one EV vs one ICE in the Equinox in our location the MRSP of the ICE is $38,940 vs the EV $47,495, this is an $8555 difference. Even with the $7500 the EV in our area is not the same. Just some data for you. I'm far from an EV hater (I own two). For a Blazer vs Blazer EV both RS trims out local dealership is $47,05 ICE and $54,595 EV, but with a sale prices of $43, 999. So in the Blazer EV case yes it is cheaper, I don't see it yet for the Equinox vehicle. And this is also not the same range which some people may point out. As long as it over 250 miles range on the EV its not an issue for us.
Cool info. Thx for sharing. I am guessing a year from now things will be much more clear. Currently it is a bit murky, but close enough for me to call parity. If not now, super soon enough to make it boil down to nuance.
Thanks, Walter! I will say that one of my biggest pet-peeves with the industry discussing pricing is their focus on *average* MSRP. That's misleading even when only looking at one segment of cars, and it becomes even more deceptive when comparing two different segments of cars. The main issue is, a $3 million Bugatti that sells in the dozens per year is counted the same as a $25,000 Toyota that sells in the hundreds of thousands per year. That pulls the average MSRP up by quite a bit. The better metric is the *median* new car purchase price. That gives a much more honest, transparent view of the market. It's certainly possible that when using the median new car purchase price, EVs are still 10% to 20% higher than ICEVs, but at that point, your argument applies. We need to be looking at similar classes of vehicle.
It will get balanced over time. EX30, Bolt v2, EV3 should swing things in the right direction. Total agree that the single number method fails in the face of logic
LOVING my 2018 Bolt EV i just bought for 13k
Makes sense to me, Walter! And even if we don't yet have price parity, there is no doubt that when we add up the costs over the lifetime of a car, EVs are most certainly a cheaper, better deal.
Agree. Parity aside, TCO is unarguable at this point. I love that a week from monday will be the first time my Volvo is in the shop at 50k miles and it is just getting a new set of tires.
You are correct.
Thx!
I think EVs are getting very close to price parity with ICE for consumer vehicles. But, heavy-duty vehicles, such as school buses, are still at nowhere near parity. The part I really don't get is that , in theory, one should be able to approximate the price for an electric bus by starting with the price of a diesel bus, an adding in the cost of the battery (at $100-$150/kWh). Yet, the actual price difference between an electric school bus vs. a diesel school bus ends up being several times higher than this.
Hopefully, increasing volume of electric trucks and buses will drive economies of scale and push prices downwards, because at current battery prices, the cost difference between electric vs. diesel should not be nearly as high as it is.
I agree. Those are l8tr into marketplace but should see drops from macro battery prices going down
Unless there's dealer incentives, that parity is not quite there yet. MSRP in some cases is still about 10k off. The tax rebate makes a dent but still not apples to apples.
Not in all. You are correct. But some are at parity. So, again I guess it depends on what your definition of price parity is.
My CT state incentive makes up the difference- $2,250 off an EV, added to the 7500 federal income tax credit.
Hi Walter, "Love your videos! I have some thoughts on hybrid vehicles (they still use gas). Could you do a segment on hybrids with your no-nonsense approach?"
Great suggestion! Noted. Will do.
Solid analysis. I agree with you. BMW thinks their next gen EVs (which start production next year!) will be cheaper than the ICE equivalents. Which is why they aren't doing a next generation of ICE cars!
lol, so messed up. We have a better product, but we don't want to make it because it will hurt our other products. lol. Thx for watching and the nice comment.
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel other way around actually! They are making the EVs and stopping development of ICE vehicles. ::)
@@CheddarKungPao ah, much better.
Is your price parity considering trim and range? Or just trims? Just curious. For example Blazer RST vs Blazer EV RST and Equinox RS vs Equinox EV RS?
IMHO, just trim. Good question.
I know battery prices are coming down because of reduced Li prices, but I wonder if the projections of price decreases going forward are mainly due to LFP. Any idea?
I actually think the focus on battery pack pricing alone to be short sighted, but the price of Li I think is a part of a whole instead of the majority factor.
And now it is not political- dems and repubs agree EVs are great!!!! Yea team USA
I honestly could care less about price parity I want a 20 to 25k ev available to purchase with 150kw charging and at least 350 miles of range once you have that the adoption rate will increase
Bolt v2, next year
@@thenetworkarchitectchannel I know I'm looking forward to it
If you just look at trim level and same vehicle one EV vs one ICE in the Equinox in our location the MRSP of the ICE is $38,940 vs the EV $47,495, this is an $8555 difference. Even with the $7500 the EV in our area is not the same. Just some data for you. I'm far from an EV hater (I own two). For a Blazer vs Blazer EV both RS trims out local dealership is $47,05 ICE and $54,595 EV, but with a sale prices of $43, 999. So in the Blazer EV case yes it is cheaper, I don't see it yet for the Equinox vehicle. And this is also not the same range which some people may point out. As long as it over 250 miles range on the EV its not an issue for us.
Cool info. Thx for sharing. I am guessing a year from now things will be much more clear. Currently it is a bit murky, but close enough for me to call parity. If not now, super soon enough to make it boil down to nuance.