China, India and the Global Order (or Disorder)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ย. 2023
- The post-war, liberal international order, led by the United States, is dying if not dead. The emergence of China as an economic technological and, in due course, military power has already led to intense competition and elements of a ’new Cold War’. The emergence of India as a major economic power - the world’s third biggest on some measures - adds complexity to this picture.
What does all this mean for global governance? We are seeing the emergence of the BRICs block and the ‘Global West'; new trade and military alignments in Asia; demands for radical change in the workings of the Bretton Woods Institutions; a challenge to the dominance of the dollar; the Belt and Road Initiative and a Western response; and a fresh ’scramble for Africa’.
This discussion focus on the respective roles of China and India in this new landscape as well as the interaction between them.
More about our speakers and chair
Vince Cable (@vincecable) is Professor in Practice at the School of Public Policy at LSE. He was UK Secretary of State for Business Innovation and Skills and President of the Board of Trade (2010-2015). He was Leader of the Liberal Democrats from 2017-19. He served for 20 years as MP for Twickenham and retired in 2019.
Niall Ferguson (@nfergus) is visiting professor at the LSE School of Public Policy. He is the Milbank Family Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and a senior faculty fellow of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at Harvard. A historian by training, Professor Ferguson received his DPhil from the University of Oxford in 1989. He has had a distinguished teaching career, having been a professor at Oxford, New York University and Harvard. He is the author of 16 books, and an accomplished biographer and journalist.
Rebecca Nadin is the Director of the Global Risks & Resilience programme at ODI. She has 16+ years’ experience in climate risk and national adaptation planning, designing and managing multi-stakeholder climate change initiatives and policy formulation at the national and sectoral level. Rebecca is a respected China specialist with a deep knowledge of the Chinese political system and foreign policy, including the BRI.
Andrés Velasco (@AndresVelasco) is Professor of Public Policy and Dean of the School of Public Policy at LSE. He was previously the Minister of Finance of Chile between March 2006 and March 2010.
The LSE School of Public Policy (@LSEPublicPolicy) equips you with the skills and ideas to transform people and societies. It is an international community where ideas and practice meet. Their approach creates professionals with the ability to analyse, understand and resolve the challenges of contemporary governance. - บันเทิง
UK and western academics should come out of colonial mentality. This debate is smelling of western colonial hangover.
Gbam!!!....it really stank!!!
I keep saying Western civilization is more Nazi than Hitler, people think I'm just trying to be alarminst....
The decline of the West will do Naill for eye like film trick....
Western countries have to tow the f US line. Why havé théy ignoréd thé US print fiat curréncy?China's RMB is baséd on gold.
What Indiian
projéctions - -INDIA cannot kéép up with China. Curréntly India's Nowhéré néar China.!
@@yananneteoh981825 years ago china nowhere near USA
But if Chinese virus pandemic didn't happen then china overtake USA economy in next 5 years but now China is struggling
In 2021 China have 5.7 Times larger GDP then india but in just 2 years due to India's high growth or Chinese low growth at now in 2023 china have only 4.6 time larger GDP then india
If we compare GDP PPP then china have 32.2 trillion dollar GDP (with 4.5% annual growth in PPP) and india have 13.3 trillion dollar GDP(with 10.2% annual growth in PPP)
I think you have basic knowledge about mathematics
Calculator these figures
@@yananneteoh9818Chinese RMB is a fiat currency and not backed by gold.
The experts still think they are in colonial era and they can lecture others. Sorry but it is 2023.
I dont mind criticism or pessimism wrt India's growth but quite annoying that Ferguson refers to opinion surveys to judge India's democracy, like a CNN or BBC news presenter would
The same publications and think tanks he rubbishes on their views about state of Western societies because he maintains the accusations of rising chauvinism on the likes of himself are unfair lol
It’s true though. I was in India and most of the TV news channels are essentially mouthpieces of the Government
Only solution is to send more Muslims to these countries and see how they will handle them. Look at suppression of protests against Israel in the "democratic" nations.
India is Bharat now, and Bharat is by default a democracy.
@@mechanosys India was always Bharat but I don't know how that matters here. And there's no such thing as by default democracy - some cultures like in India maybe more compatible with democracy undoubtedly but it's not a given
It is imperative that all Indians who witnessed this debate understand that it is not about justice, democracy, or secularism, etc.-words that are weaponized against nations that are either ancient civilizations attempting to resurrect themselves or new ideologies that oppose western hegemony or civilization.
i never believe in economics any ways.good to study but BAD to believe in that. Impotantly lets all realize one thing.India will be THE ONLY power in the world which can challenge the West in all aspects of Soft and Hard Power.Let the West take note.
If you want to win you have to play the game.
@@barneylinux yeah game is the game and we will play it
Indians should be very comfortable about that.
are you chinese?
shocking to hear that the first speaker has such a superficial idea of Indian democratic structure, and just shows dismissive,arrogant judgemental attitude. But I am glad that such ill informed lobby 'intellectuals' are guiding the West, therefore they will be never have accurate ideas about India. Trick Indians can apply is not to confornt and challenge them, but keep silently working on progress.
Keeping silent, working and delivering first are not in Indians' DNA
@@k.k.c8670 let us see after couple of decades.
@@k.k.c8670 i have seen you commenting on other videos
Why are you so free
Don't you havw a work to do
@@iron982 why are you so free stalking me? I don't know you
@@k.k.c8670ignore colonial looters ancestors kids 😂😂😂
Wow the hubris of these Western professors
To be fair, the lady is quite nuanced and has a good understanding of China having lived there for quite a few years.
How so?
The gentlemen criticizing indian democracy citing pseudo left controlled sources were jubilant about China (democracy?)
Exactly, the human rights is mostly a cover for their Hinduphobia and hatred of Indians in general.
China does not brag about how she up-lifted the lives of her people; only the West is doing it and India just jumps in though in reality India has NOTHING to brag about on up-lifting 80% of her poorer population.
Indian GDP in 2023 is 13 Trillion $ as per PPP calculations. Why is the chart showing it as 9 Trillion $ in 2025 ?
That itself is a poor start and gives us a good idea as to what comes next. Looks more like propaganda than any real scholarship. Typical british BS.
True 😅😏
It was great to see India becoming ignored, they should just fly under the radar and keep letting the law of compound interest do the job. The jab from Nial Ferguson about Indian democracy, the lord descendent of our previous British masters, was quite funny though. India has had more peaceful transfers of power and fewer controversies about the legitimacy of an election that his new adopted country :)
You said it!
Pajjeet, you think all these protests like Corruption Protests in 2012, Farm Protest, CAA protest etc are ignored by west. Well this is whay democracy is important as it is controlled by capital and capital is controlled by USA
lol, that picture is yours tells 72 tales.
It is interesting how talk turn into India not being democratic. West wants to work with China despite not being a democracy but when it comes to India west say it is declining democracy and hard to work with.
What it matters India being democratic or not (I wish India remain democracy and it will)
Let us say India adopt China style model but with somewhat freedom for people why it bother west???
If you can work with China can’t you work with India???
India being democracy or not why it comes in this manner???
So it is more about not liking India rather than India being democratic
Multilateral Institutions like UN, World Bank, IMF need reforms otherwise they will be irrelevant in time to come.
They are already irrelevant
@@mefisto05s.20so true😂😂 these institutions were made to serve western nations not world population. Institutions like UN was supposed to held Nixon and his president + russia for all the crimes in middle East. Did they ? They wiped the shoes of those murderer's. Vietnam war , unstability in the Indian subcontinent, africa
India already outspoken about the UN needs a reform since it was formed.
UN had become irrelevant the movement US decided to invade Middle East, they could not stop it. Nations don't respect institutions like UN any more. Forget powers like china, US and Russia, they could not even stop Armenia and Azerbaijan conflict. Why do you think countries take such an irrelevant entity seriously?
Umm.. don't know why India is part of this discussion agenda.. mostly pundits on America and China on the panel.. and there's very limited understanding and knowledge about India, and there is opinionated dissemination of the data on India. And the moderator also seems to have hard opinions against China.😊.
Haha let them be this is the old rotten world order, india china are aprt of the new order. These fools on stage won't live to see our glory, but all the same we shall emerge victorious
The title smacks of the West's sarcasm, to say the least. However, it's to be expected of a civilisation that has been premised on subjugation and discrimination throughout history, cruel enough to commit genocides to prove their point. The West's world order has been anything but Order, more appropriately disorder to maintain their hegemony and chokehold on the rest of civilisation. The facts document that the West has been at war continuously throughout the 20th Century, and has created disorder and chaos in the 21st as well resulting in death and destruction and the refugee problems. However, the West's academics are oblivious to looking themselves in the mirror and recognising the disorder they have wreaked on the world. It's not surprising that the consequence are new rising powers and a new world order premised on growth and development. They probably realise that the era of war is an existential one that has no winners, only losers.
They (WEST) are not part of human civilization , only thing they have done is spread chaos and wars and death for rest of planet.
Well said. Xi calls for cooperation among countries including US and Europe. Biden calls for containment of China.
China has changed under Xi? Of course! When US under Obama pivots to the East and its navy and military bases encircle China, you don't expect China not to react. When it does, the West proclaims that China has changed to threaten the US and the West! You can see who is spewing propaganda!
How on earth is India's democracy of the same health today as it was during the Emergency?
The whole point of the Emergency was to suspend the constitution and democracy.
Meanwhile, Congress wins Himachal and Telangana.
Elections is not democracy. Its Liberty and freedom that determines true democracy. India doesn't have top rate value systems.
@@subhrajitgupta5535 neither the west has
@@priyanshusharma353 Democracy was discovered in the West.
Emergency last for a mere 3 months
@@subhrajitgupta5535bro pass the smoke. Democracy was introduced first in West🤡
0:23: 🌍 The dean of the school of public policy discusses the changing global landscape and its impact on international affairs and institutions.
7:53: 📈 The video discusses the future economic projections for the US, China, and India, and the implications for decision making and governance based on their share of the world economy and voting power in international institutions.
15:55: 📈 The use of the Chinese currency is increasing in global transactions, challenging the dominance of the US dollar.
23:52: 📊 The global economic landscape is shifting, with the decline of G7 countries' share and the rise of BRICS countries.
30:39: 💵 The US dollar remains a dominant and stable currency in the international market.
38:19: 🌏 The video discusses China's foreign policy objectives and its impact on global dynamics.
46:02: 🌐 China is taking measures to safeguard its periphery and create new norms and standards through legislation and forums.
53:30: 🌍 The discussion revolves around countries' debts to the IMF and China, as well as the potential future choices between global powers.
1:00:39: 🌐 The video discusses China's use of global forums to reinforce its position on key strategic issues.
1:07:52: 📈 The video discusses the potential impact of the Chinese R&B currency on the global economy and the skepticism surrounding it.
1:15:13: 🌍 The video discusses the impact of sanctions on Russia and its diplomatic relations, highlighting the country's ability to avoid economic pain.
1:21:37: 🌍 The video discusses China's contradictory policies on attracting foreign investment and its influence in the internet world.
1:29:01: 🌍 The debate revolves around the role of democracy in global governance, with a focus on India and China's positions in the global South.
Recapped using Tammy AI
India does not have the diligence, the hpnesty and the humility of China.
There s also a lot of misinformation and propaganda from thé US.
Thé réality about US financés, rottén infrastructuré and uncontrollablé Corruption ln thé govt. and Congress that allocatéd govt fundings just vanished and therés only dvsfunctionality évérywhéré ln thé US- poor éducation, brokén roads and Bridgés, slow and Éxpénsivé
TRAINS GROWING NUMBERS O HOMÉLÉSNÉSS, Rising undémploymént and Rising Costs, Foodgé shortag
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Thanks mate!
Niall Ferguson went on 2000-2022 history but he should know China's rise started with Deng Xiaoping and India's rise started with Narasimha Rao's reform and accelerated sharply with Narendra Modi an uncorruptable leader with a single vision for development, its the leader that matters not past history. You also mentioned about questionable democracy in India the country is flooded with independent media but some of the established english media are not so happy as he doesn't give them any interviews and they have lost their clout so no doubt they sometimes write disparaging things thought he has lifted 200~250 million people out of poverty. Lets look at media in the UK all the printed and TV media are all parroting the neo-liberal view and there is no space for divergent view nowadays, also since the war in March 22 some of the foreign media outlets has been blocked if you are truly liberal you will not block these media but counter them. The other thing you mentioned about rules base and legal establishment for inward investment, but when the Venezualian government asked Bank of England to return their gold bullions(1~2 billion dollars worth) it was refused and the HM courts also refused, also foreign assets were confiscated from people who have earlier entertained leading polititions and after the war their assets were confiscated without any legal grounds. You know when EU and others went to india to persuade them to change course it failed, then they invited ASEAN countries and tried to bribe them with 10billion euros that also failed. The third world countries are no longer fools and they were observing all of these but now with China's rise and arising India they are no longer afraid. They are also aware that the Japanese economy was destroyed by USA with the Plaza Accord in 1985 for the next 30 years the Japanese economy flatlined while US economy grew by !000% yes this is true the Japanese had no option, because their security is dependent on USA. I can give you a long list of democratic governments were toppled because they didn't like the peoples choce and the1971 war in Bangladesh a million or more civilians were shot and I haven't seen any condemnation from any of the liberal democracies.
For the Demonratic West we are a Democracy till & only until we vote traitors like khangrace who bends as they want. Not otherwise.
BTW they started adopting that theorem on themselves too off late and would increasingly do so once Europe goes further Right.
Democracy is alive & Kicking if & only if Demonratic Ideologies keep winning
I used to take the western media seriously. Now I see them as propaganda. I live in Southeast Asia for more than 6 decades. If we read the "international news" we might think war is about to break out in the South China Sea. Yes, China has disputes with several countries, and these countries too have disputes among themselves, but all parties are very calm, civil and amiable. Hopefully the US is not trying to stir the issue to take advantage.
👍
Well said
Your comments are more comprehensive than the “pundits” on the stage.
The expertise of the experts just made me laugh 😂. Grow up kids... same old colonial mindset.
Including Pakistan in the chart was a lmao moment 😂.
These experts should travel to India to see the difference 😂.
These are staged shows to brainwash their audience 🤷
To see open-defecation everywhere?
The illiterate citizens?
The equal rights of women and men?
The caste-system mindset?
The places like Dahravi?
The Big 5 in 1945 are not the Big 5 today - The Security Council has to be enlarged to accommodate India, Germany & Japan as well.
Why?
Because you can't ignore the 3rd, 4th, and 5th largest economies in the world and ignore 1/3rd (1.3 billion people) on this planet and establish a lasting and fair world order.
@@pcsing2006because robbers don't deserve any place in world
And robbers( extreme criminals) means EUROPIAN origin
为什么不把英国踢出呢，反正它也只是美国的跟班。
@@but_at_what_costright
I want to see a world without europian criminals domination
Doesn't know the difference between Khalistani and Kazakistani.
LSE Expert!!!
There was no reason to have India in the title. Kind of misleading. Looks like all participants only have superficial knowledge of what’s happening of late in India. Also, while calling India not so liberal democracy, not to say word about CCP and its iron grip rule! LSE seems compromised, it can’t seem to say anything about one thing going wrong in China.
I am amazed that these people with biased minds are holding chairs we regard intellectual! And how the well regarded institutions in the West are having these people.
don't forget these are the same kind which translated/interpreted our Religious scriptures (like all of a sudden they found manu smriti, which was lost for 930 years, and peddled caste divide bs to convert us and make us permanently weak also divide AKHAND BHARAT into pieces by creating a never ending problem like PAK)
And its so fishy that its author name was manu (manu means man in Sanskrit language) it seems they just give it name laws of man 😂 seems like a propaganda which firstly peddled by Islamic invaders to destabilize the society divide and rule and British boost it in age of printing press !
India grew at the fastest rate this year. India under Modi is very dynamic with very fast infrastructure growth. Exports are growing and in many markets (such as motorcycles in African countries) India is displacing China.
In 138 years or even more.
😂joke
Tere 2-4 videos dekhna se displace nhi hoga china. U.S.A ke liye impossible jaisa hai apni supply chain shift karna. Chinese supply chain still dominates. India me politics or votes jada important hai. India is in no position to match china. Maybe after 30 years. China is 6 times bigger in economy.
On a $3.5 trillion low base. Note that. China $19 trillion and US is $26 trillion
@@birjusharma8104 Isi attitude se rahe to aap kabhi aage badh hi nahi skte. Kisne 10 saal pehle socha tha ki India me apple manufacture karega, aur aaj ho raha hai. I mean it's difficult but not definitly impossible.
$45 Trillion was taken from India by Britain over 200 years of rule
So what?
The British economy worked on the indian money and no wonder there is no India from them now their economy Is struggling @@subhrajitgupta5535 the British looted India like hell
Does that mean each Britain is a multi-millionair. 😂😂😂😂
@@keungpang2176 ask royals
Britain killed 4 million Indians in 1943 in Bengal by imposing a famine
These old lads are the perfect intellectuals to guide USA ,
about India 🇮🇳 or we should say misguide 😂
Sorry to observe that professional Ferguson seems to be stuck in the colonial past. Data presented were all past data with little projection into the future based on current political and economics dynamics.
Looks like a panel from the Empire from the Dark Side in the Star Wars. LOL !🤣😂😅
Giana bad
Merica good
Giana dumb
Merica smart
Hope everyone is happy now
Clash of two different mindsets.
Scarcity mindset: Fear of losing something, anxiety about not having enough, insecurity about lacking security, and greed for more. It always strives for a win-lose outcome, where one's gain is someone else's loss. Obama's Pivot to Asia: "If over a billion Chinese citizens have the same living patterns as Australians and Americans do right now, then all of us are in for a very miserable time. The planet just can't sustain it." Destined for war.
Abundance mindset: Cooperation, resource-sharing, and win-win outcomes. War is avoidable.
China is reacting to each U.S. action. It is impolite not to reciprocate.
Following the September 11, 2001 attack, the U.S. shifted attention from China to the Middle East, easing China's entry into the World Trade Organization (WTO) in December 2001. As China emerged as the "world's factory," producing inexpensive goods that lowered global inflation, central banks, including the U.S. Federal Reserve, maintained low-interest rates, fostering excessive leveraging in the U.S. and Europe. This, coupled with risky financial practices and the collapse of the housing market, led to the 2008 Global Financial Crisis. Despite feeling unsettled by China's economic growth, the United States actively pursued financial support from China, for China to continue purchasing U.S. Treasury bills.
In 2011, Obama proposed the "Pivot to Asia" strategy, which shifted the focus of US foreign policy from the Middle East to Asia. This, along with the wargaming of a sea blockade of Chinese commercial ships on a global scale, the formation of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), which deliberately excluded China, the establishment of a 2500-strong US marine air-ground task force in Darwin, and an increase in the rotation of both US Air Force planes and US Navy vessels through Australian bases, alarmed the Chinese leadership.
Unable to remain passive, hide their strength, and bide their time, Xi Jinping was selected as the leader of China in 2013 to make China more secure. These included the establishment of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, the Belt and Road initiative, and the building of artificial islands in the South China Sea. In 2015 the "Made in China 2025" initiative was announced. These policies were a direct response to the perceived threat posed by the "Pivot to Asia" strategy. No country is excluded from joining the AIIB or the Belt and Road Initiative. Obama's intentions were clarified when he responded to Xi Jinping's proposal on September 25, 2015, to make the South China Sea (SCS) a non-militarized zone by initiating freedom of navigation operations in the SCS on October 27, 2015.
Hello Phillip very interesting take
What do you think about Italy exiting BRI and China's major real estate companies defaulting
Is it creative destruction or this is just western propaganda?
And also why india didn't allow bri in their own country when china and india were at good terms with each other?
Why indians were skeptical of BRI?
thankyou
Here comes a chinese dude talking about agression and subversion. Who apparently owns an entire sea.
U boosted the economy instead of growing it a natural and sustained development and put population curbs which is basically a death sentence on the young generations.
@@iron982India is really funny, Italy joining OBOR was unexpected, it is very difficult for you to get G7 countries to participate in a China-led project. The default of China's large housing enterprises is caused by the impact of the US dollar interest rate rise and the epidemic can not be completed on time, and these projects account for a small proportion of the entire Chinese project. Because of the panic, a lot of people stopped buying homes and sat on the sidelines, which reduced the cash flow of real estate companies.
LOL! The blind leads the blind.
Poor quality presenters.
Only when there are Indian presenters boasting, blustering and hyping India. Then it's good, right?
@@k.k.c8670 Nope he is saying right ! very poor presentation by LSE, btw why LSE is not concerned with UK's stalled with 0.1% growth ?
@@daipayanbhowal8914 dude.. LSE has a global outlook. Duh
@@k.k.c8670 that’s why they can’t even solve UK’s crisis
Grapes are sour.
India is already perfect so it needs to do nothing. China wants to improve so it will.
India superpower since 2020 said by 1.4 billions Indian
Who told you that India is perfect ? Surely not the Indians themselves !
The title of the talk is very interesting. The bracketed "or disorder" shows the bias in the thinking! Are y'all implying that only the G7 can do "order"! Are y'all also implying the global south (jungle as opposed to the western gardens) can only do disorder! Or were y'all just not thinking things through!
Probably all of the foregoing!
guys, as you can clearly see how biased, ignorant, cunning and non-sensical these people are.
I want to draw your attention towards the fact that these are the same kind which translated/interpreted our Religious scriptures (as we see today) and inserted various narrative (like all of a sudden they found manu smriti, which was lost for 930 years, and peddled caste divide bs to convert us and make us permanently weak also divide AKHAND BHARAT into pieces by creating a never ending problem like PAK)
Multi-polar world, accept it guys..
Yes that's there problem because America is not sole dominant power in the world
Without a China expert on the panel, why put China in the title?
Click bait? All kidding aside, the figure at the 17 minute mark (17:00) is very good.
On the line connecting China and India, I would add "Leadership for Global South". This is both a source of tension, but also tethers China and India on a lot of issues.
On the line between USA and India, both US diaspora and Friend shoring is over rated. There are more Chinese Americans than Indian Americans. Obviously both groups are very diverse, as observed in the recent killing of Sikh leaders in North America. Friend shoring has benefited Mexico and Vietnam more, not as much for India. Recent studies have shown this is due to China's export of more intermediate goods to circumvent US sanctions. On the bottom of the ledger, I would add dominance of the Indian Ocean as a source of future tension between US and India in the future. India sees the Indian Ocean as Mare Nostrum. As India gets a stronger navy, it will have a different relationship with USA.
I would add a line between US and Russia. On one side of the ledger, there is Ukraine, NATO expansion and War risks. On the other side, nothing.
India doesn't really matter for foreign affairs.
India is just barely mentioned here. It's all about China - US.
@@Aerrow62 India is in the title because it is the largest country that is on youtube not because India is relevant. Chinese people cannot access youtube without VPN.
True that India has not benefitted as much from businesses leaving China these days. Vietnam and Mexico have benefitted more. This will change in the next year or so. Walmart will source 25% of imported goods in the next couple of years. The iPhone 15 will be primarily manufactured in India.
@@IamdeaththedestroyerofWorldsThey really want to reach the audience but don't know how to. So they just tag the second largest audience group with content about how great China is.
When india was democratic, the west didn't want to even rouch it with a barge pole. But now that its undemocratic, it has become important.
British created security nightmare through division of India. After the Invision of Tibet China became ambitious and working to control south and southeast Asia by controlling the water of Tibet and trade of Indian and pacific ocean and beyond by the name of BRI with debt trap loans. Taiwan and India both are main obstacles.
It is very reassuring to see such ignorance on stage. Descending democracies like USA, UK, Canada etc will find nasty surprises in store for them if this is the quality of information & analysis at their disposal. Kishore Mahbubhani, if he had been present, would have laughed loudly .
It's nice to see that the westerners would never understand India.
these people still think this is 1800s, I cant belive this is the mindset of people at the top tier of the school !!
british pound was dominant like dollar untill 1935 and nobody could see pound''s dominance coming to an end, so you know history repeats itself
British presence as a super power has been coal-run, self-sufficiently - before oil was widely known.
By the time oil came mainstream, British coal was already severely depleted to the ground and with it the presence faded out.
Chinese and Indian presence as international powers today - are dependant on looted oil supplies coming from war-torn nations - Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Ukraine, Russia, Sudan.
Without that oil, China and India would have no better grid electricity than Gaza - being dependant on imported oil to extract their own national coal in astronomical volumes - like no tomorrow.
When energy looted - it turns - curse.
A curse that destroys in humans consciousness and the future.
Karl Marx, Nikola Tesla, Balfour, Einstein, Huxley, Orwell, Turing and 20th Century Economists - should be forgiven for thinking their systems can last forever.
Finite fossil fuels are dangerously hypnotic to humans, their consciousness and mental capacity.
Humans were not ready morally, ethically and intellectually to start the mass extraction of fossil fuels with the advent of the steam engine 300 years ago.
The Magna Carta requires today overhauling - adding to it the right for humans to understand what Energy really is - before any other commandment;
“In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most.
No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future” (2017).
who looted Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya and Ukraine....?
你錯了，中國是煤炭儲量最大的國家，但因為控制全球暖化，中國正在減少煤炭發電，中國還是葉岩油儲量大國，但中國的葉岩油儲量地水源太少了，開採成本高
Have you seriously considered seeking professional help ? Please do so at the earliest.
China's oil costs more than $60 to extract, and it is not without oil. This is the same as the US going to the Middle East to grab oil when it was not drilling itself, and then the US also opened up oil mining and no longer stored it.
The host should join the debate, because he got so many opinions to share, or rather to dictate.
China should be allowed a say in setting the current rules based on its size. Why would China join any club whose rules were made without it? The G7 club would not agree to that unfortunately
What has China to offer?
1. It doesnot allow its own people liberty to speak,
criticise, disagree. Strict control by one party
2. Their model can't be copied
All countries can't have one party rule. End of religion. Culture.
3. China has no soft power
No culture to offer
4. China doesnot recognize the borders of its neighbours. All look at it suspiciously. Its perceived as a threat by all in Asia
4. The people of China have no people to people contact with neighbours. Most of Asia
5. China is a closed soceity. Noone knows whats happening there. In their soceity. Whats the debate there.
Whereas india is an open country with open loud, vocal hot debates on everything. India has mixed soceity. Diversity. Cilture. Religion. Many political parties , philosophies, ideas. All competing. Even communist party, capitalist party, socialist parties. World is not threatened by India or Indians. They can identify with something in India and can copy it. Be it arabs, africa east asians, Europeans. India is a melting pot of cultures. With Mongoloid looking people, browns, dark, whites all colours . Every country identifies with some culture of india. Assimilating is a big quality of india. China has a bland monoculture
They should also respect the global order. Follow the rules. Stop bullying and debt diplomacy.
@@DeepakPSH That's precisily what OP is saying China can dictate global order. And what you clearly said is US order not global order. Most countries support Palestine and still trade with Russia unlike the US.
@@DeepakPSH unlike you Indians, China does not follow rules by your colonial masters blindly.
@@k.k.c8670😂😂😂and the U.S. follow rules as it see fits how ironical.
At sustained 6-7% GDP growth in India and about 5% Inflation, India is going to grow at 12% for at least 25-30 years. At 12%, GDP doubles roughly every 8years. Assuming 4Tn in Financial Year 2023, it will be 8TN by 2031, 16 TN by 2039 and 32 TN by 2047.
China gdp in 2007 was at same level as India today. At that time China already sent men in space several times, first tier cities infrastructure were already awesome. No slums, no homeless. High speed train was already operating. How India pretending to be a close $4,0 trillion GDP has none of the above attributes. Are their figures faked. 🤔
LSE, England no.1 wild chicken university.🤣
For Indians, they talked mostly at 1:25:00 Don't waste time
Funny how most of the points brought forward are incorrect.
Thank you. We don't care. With love from India.
14:45 The illustration is a tad incorrect. India is no longer a part of RCEP as stated
That was a condescending title to have and much of the discussion too..
Reminds me of that one cartoon drawn by a US cartoonist almost 100 years ago - India, China and Africa looking down on the western imperialists. That time will be coming soon enough. Live in your little bubble my friends...when you realize how much things have changed..it will be too late.
LSE is not qualified for this.
A crucial issue which affects how we look not only at the statistical size of the GDP of India and China, but its domestic impact on income, consumption and population levels. The Chinese Economic Miracle has actually led to a decline in China's population, whereas India's more modest growth has produced a browing population. The Indian Development Model has supported the growth of 35 million strong Diaspora employed and resident mainly in the Developed countries and Economies, USA, Canada and India being the main centres of the growth of the Indian Diaspora, which now is becoming a self-sustaining process.
How has this been possible, should spawn a new dimension of global policy research.
Dr. Shri Prakash
It is all because of the sanatan philosophy of life. We believe in life cycle and not just consumption. Indians live a sustainable life while the West just produce tons of c02, it's just that simple 50 years later when the ruined west will want salvation they will turn to sanatan🙃
Why are XiXiPee apologetics so worried?
hell is waiting for you. Don 't worry.
Those wide eyed freaks are working hard for their social credit
You did not mention CCP’s schedule of wars and the timeline from Taiwan to Vladivostok via India, Japan et al.
How come European experts don't count the conflict in nagarno karabakh and just echo Ukraine
Quite rank hypocricy from Fergusun here. He has done this before and honestly, I don't expect any different from him. He seems like one of those Brits who still has a hangover from the days of empire. He attacks India for "polyamory", but the US/EU themselves are neck deep in terms of being entangled with China. India is merely a member of BRICS but major American and European corporations would fold entirely if they lost access to China's market and factories. In fact his comments were quite to the contrary, he said that there has been little to no decoupling between US and China over the last 5 years, in spite of the high tensions. He should acknowlegde this when he comments on India's foreign engagements. A historian of his standing should know better. I seem to agree with him on other matters but he seems woefully ill-informed when it comes to India.
Someone should also remind him that apps like tiktok and WeChat are banned in India whereas there is rampant use in the US. Again, short of declaring war on China there isn't much more that India can do.
Apparently our India audience didn't get enough attention during the 1.5 hour discussion so they all showed up in the comments section. 😆
The speaker completely disregarded Indian democracy shows how the west sees India. Makes me sick. There are more political parties India than US, UK and all the so called western democracies combined
No wonder west is declining
25:07 Brazil's share is decreasing, they were more like India and China combined in 1980s but now tiny compared to their sum
That's understandable and just is a start and seeing it will understand more
What's debt relief in this context and definitions
The first professor mentioned “democracy” should be in quotes for India… wokism, racism, Jan 6th Capitol hill, islamophobia and anarchy is conveniently overlooked and a PM voted in by over 500million people through a fair democratic process is being labelled as a “strongman”
A dream is only a dream until someone does it huh
The reality is UK is begging India for FTA since last 2 years😂
These "intellectual sounding" clowns doesn't know the condition of there poor economic situation, poverty rate is higher in UK than India and inflation reaches now high every quarter. Still they want to discuss India and chine
I would like more information
And if a company is going to do business I wanna know who I'm dealing with
Firstly who made the West the protector of democracy, secondly what objective measure are they using to figure India is any less of a democracy than a country like America
When works don't match and the businesses don't that's not alignment and if no one can face the actual person and understanding their role is wild
We only have one order under the international law. not other orders which are not transparent and which are under the power of the fist (the rule based order, what is it?) Title is twist to imply if America's rule based order is gone, China & india emerged, we would expect disorder! We do not accept that. We wanted to have one rule, the established international laws.
In reality, US, China and India (as well as EU and Russia) should and must cooperate to deal with existential threats of climate change and arms and space race. AI itself already needs humankind to be united to deal with it. A divided humanity stands no chance on AI and climate change.
US as the world's only superpower should take the lead in this cooperation rather than its division. Its status as the leader will be enhanced, not diminished, if it can get China and Russia on irs side, diplomatically.
you had me until AI. AI is no danger if you think from existential point of view, it is like saying CERN is danger to humanity as it may create black hole.
I will replace AI with some desert cult, which is responsible for lot of sufferings around world.
LAND OF THE FREE AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE!!!
If some one could explain hw is tiktok a chinese soft power when there is near no chinese content on the platform.
this discussion is so biased and even if some data presented is correct but the opinions are horrible. Really disappointed LSE organized this biased discussion from a western viewpoint.
BRICS have 5x the population of G7.
Even though on paper both are 1/3rd of world's GDP, but on per capita basis they are still 1/5th of G7
Especially when it can only be won with truth
Again it was planned and understood
Exactly but not controlling
It is sad to see the poor quality of discussion with masked sense of superiority with sound bites, and self selected so called facts.
If this is the quality of thinking in this elite university, why pay exorbitant fees.
Well researched google and you tube material would have given a more sophisticated understanding.
India, China do not worry. Here is your competition from some elites in the UK.
Once japan was a democracy in 1910s I guess and then it wasn't. India will have the same fate not because it seems that way, no because People like me want that, democracies are luxuries which poor countries can't afford. We wish to be a great power as we always were a economic and cultural , educational hub of eastern philosophy and vedic science. Our lands have been ruptured which democracies are unable to heal. We wish to be Zenith of civilizations we have potential and democracy won't fulfil it and it will collapse on the very weight of it.
Please imagine G7 nations without USA.
And now someone wants truth and no one has it or can look themselves in the face
Especially if they are going to invest in any place
I heard France had asked South Africa to extend an invitation for the BRICS summit meeting. Not sure why Macron didn't ask China directly.
France, Germany should both join😂😂😂😂
When I see this I'll believe it
It's because you have to tell the truth at the end of the day
when trding declines their currency power decline, so the dollar's decline will start once another country overtakes US economically. The graph of dollar shown is when US is at its peak. Everything has an end you don't have to fear just accept it. Peace out to the second speaker✌
What's the joke bc didn't CERN do that or am I wrong
God help anyone who is trying to get a clearer insight into the changing world order by listening to this "debate". The views expressed are so planted on flawed Western narratives.
Definitions
And is china and these countries represent the country or the bank as the person
Governments cannot protect you from themselves. Remember, like any organization, they are individuals.
The truth is that hard or hiding their actions selling or hiding currency
Don't get me started on that
And what runs the market and making them numbers don't insult me
Many of these seem to be on paid payroll of various governments like China, US etc
Really
That's still a theory