Big fan of these "revisited" performance reviews. I almost never buy games day 1, because I'm a normal, patient adult who prefers cheaper games with fewer bugs and fuller content. So a video describing how a game performs after the patches are in and all is said and done is way more useful and relevant long-term imo
The last 5 big titles I've played ALL were half the price, with 25% more content, and zero bugs/better graphical options. Especially games that are both on PS4 and PS5. You'd actually be insane to play a game for your first time on launch nowadays.
Me too. Especially now when games are released with improvements planned. I think the only game i did buy day one was FF16, but it was really cuz my son wanted to play it badly.
Really liked this new way of showing dynamic resolution with a table chart. It demonstrates better how the resolution actually behaves rather than just state a range as, for example, 720p to 1080p. Some people only consider the lower count and others olny the higher count when it actually varies a lot betwen scenes. Great idea and I hope you guys keep using it! (PS: Sorry for bad english)
If you look in the XVI credits, 1/3 of Luminous Productions helped out on XVI production while they were also developing Forspoken. Just shows where SE's priorities were and why one game that had to release across PC and PS5 would fare worse than the other game with a longer dev time and optimization focused solely on PS5.
I'm so glad someone else is mentioning this. you could tell ff16 got preferential treatment when it came to studio-wide resources. that's why the game is getting its polish and refinements post-launch, AFTER FF16's launch. The game is waaay better than ppl are willing to admit, but the technical issues gave them a reason to justify their hate.
@@salinalee2613 Yeah. And that's not even taking into account the huge open world they were making in Forspoken. I think the devs bit off more than they could chew because the world didn't even need to be that large given the story takes you only thorugh 15-20% of the whole map lol. The way Forspoken was treated is a shame.
@@lockekappa500 yeah I really wish they fix the frame drops on performance mode. I only have a 1080p TV, so I don't really gain much from the quality mode, but I'd rather have a somewhat steady 30fps than a 60fps mode that keeps going up and down constantly.
It's not like FF16 was flawless though. The game dipping to 720p in combat and only using FSR1 instead of FSR2 is pretty ridiculous. And those are only some of the issues.
it's so weird that square enix have different engines for their big budget games FF7R - unreal engine 4 (it was really great) Forspoken - Luminous (just decent since FF15) KH3 - unreal engine (great) FF16 - i heard it was a custom engine also used for FF14 (amazing graphic wise) they always used varied engine, but before with KH3 they want to force the game to use luminous but i'm glad they shifted to unreal engine instead (i think FF7R is also the same?) i know SE want to do what capcom did, make their own engine for their games especially big budget games, but unfortunately it was a failure for 2 times currently. Crystal Engine and now Luminous, both of them struggle with performance. meanwhile Capcom have been using their RE engine since RE7 and it's great so far. Which means RE engine so far is a success for them
Great video. Once again sadly we see a game that could have been better with more time put behind it... It's starting to be annoying but now I buy games 6 to 12 months after their release. They cost way less usually and run way better.
Yeah, with GT7 frame drops And final fantasy 16 demos has frame drops too I'm waiting for ps5 pro before purchasing jedi survivor, FF16, FF7 rebirth, phantom liberty and many others
Same here. It makes no sense to buy games at release anymore. It's sad as it ruins the excitement of new releases. Getting hyped up for new games is part of the enjoyment you get from gaming and that's now gone.
@@Pointman11111unless it's a MP focused game or so, why buy a game on launch day when 99% of them come out with performance issues, missing features, bugs etc.?? You buy same game 3-6 months later, problems are ironed out, preorder bonuses most of the the time can be bought as DLC and game is all ready on discount at that point. Capcom was one of the rare dev/publisher which would release day 1 ready games to play, but even RE4 came out with performance issues until it was fixed.
@@givemorexp my god are you shortsighted What happens if a game doesn't get high initial sales and doesn't make enough revenue? It's not 99% and even if, it's not 99% of one individual game
Great turnout, looks AND runs way better! I’m glad they took the time to address and actually fix these issues, but as mentioned, this is how it should’ve shipped. Great work on the coverage! Also, to anyone with a compatible display, give the 40fps mode a try. It’s really great and much much more responsive than the 30fps mode.
The lighting in FF16 is amazing, particularly in the sandy desert regions of the continent. I think at times, outside of the major cutscenes and battle moments, it can look a little worse (certainly, the character animations and lip sync are nowhere near as good as Horizon FW, for example, in the side content), but overall FF16 is beautiful. Pretty stark how different this looks compared.
FF16 looks great. They mentioned it uses some sort of raytraced shadows throughout which is why lighting and shadows are excellent in the game but this is also the reason why resolution and frame-rate gets a big hit in the game, but tbh the performance is stable enough when it matters and the game itself is perfectly polished throughout.
I love ff16 but I do wish it gets a update like forspoken have,at time it feels very blurry even on graphics mode.Bump in resolution,change of upscaler possibly to FSR2,a 40fps option,better performing 60fps mode would be great.
I’ve played maybe an hour or so and just installed the motion blur patch. Will keep holding off until there’s a 40fps balanced mode or they stabilize the game a little better Hard to “adjust” to this game when coming from forbidden west and ragnarok. Hell I just finished days gone and that game runs incredibly well and looks great for a ps4 game..
Yeah but this reviewer isn’t going to mention that about FF16. It gets a pass. People are way too overtly critical of Forspoken. FF16 copied so much from it coming out so much after and Forspoken deserves credit for its fast, fluid, fun combat.
You should do an update piece on how EA/Respawn have not updated Jedi Survivor's terrible performance and how they are just ignoring players about doing so. Many people, including myself, bought the game and are waiting for a respectable performance patch before playing the game through.
Pretty much why I haven't bought it on PC. Nothing EA does or doesn't do surprises me at this point. If you are on PC running an Nvidia card the DLSS mod seems to help a lot.
Massive improvement. Still not interested in the game, but it's good to see they put the effort to improve the disastrous lighting. p.s. This video was super silent for me.
Hi Oliver, I just want to inform you that every video of yours has that lower sound volume. Literally I need to double my sound amp output to hear you properly. Just compare it with any other DF video or any other content and you'll see it. I hope you can fix it in the future works. Thank you so much for this great analysis.
Yep. YT stats show content loudness -14.9 dB for this video. This is too low. In my experience, it should be no lower than around -5dB. Basically 10dB louder for best result. It's good when you watch it at home with adequate sound config. You just crank the amp and solve the problem. You don't have that luxury when watching on a phone or a laptop, so that's why it's important. Also if you have an ad midway through the video... lol
I’m really enjoying this game; it grew on me. Sure it didn’t get off to a great start as expected, but the graphical and performance improvements I felt made the game stronger. I would like to see a sequel to the game. Sadly we won’t b/c of bad sales.
I remember seeing the first trailer and being hyped, then playing the demo and having that hype cool off a lot. It went from a must buy to wait for sale. I ended up getting it half price and I've actually been enjoying it more than I thought I would. It's definitely not without its issues but core gameplay is fun and the world and lore are pretty interesting.
I respect that, but it’s probably the most bland game I’ve ever played. The open world, the dialogue, the story, just everything about it felt really bland. The combat was decent, but is the only thing about the game I can say is at least decent.
I honestly find interesting the results between Forspoken and Final Fantasy XVI, from what Yoshi-P said, they wanted to use tech they we're already used to when developing FF16, wich would be the engine used in Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn and so on, which was an Early version of Luminous that they've been working on for years. So basically, we have two different version of what would be the same engine, the Luminous Production version developed and updated for Forspoken, and the Yoshi-P team version of Luminous that was updated and used in Final Fantasy XVI, both with their strengths and weaknesses. I really curious about the future of Luminous and how they'll enhance the engine after Final Fantasy XVI.
I get the impression that a lot of the 16 development changes to graphics and fidelity is what we're gonna see with the 7.0 FF14 expansion update, which promises tons of shader, texture, and lighting overhauls.
@@hehashivemind6111 It's gonna be really interesting to see how much of a glow up this update with PBR textures and new shaders will make to Final Fantasy XIV, Phantasy Star Online 2 new genesis almost doesn't look like it is the same game.
So i'm confused.... So PS4 games played on the PS4 Pro/PS5 can achieve 2160p perfectly. But PS5 native games are having problems staying above 720p? O.o Did we just go backwards.....What is this, 2009?
I had tons of fun playing the game, honestly. I know it felt short for some people in some ways, but it was generally a very enjoyable experience for me, both the exploration and combat. Do get it if you see it on sale, it's worth it.
@@roodinverse most of these people in the comments are NPCs that don't know how to think for themselves. It pretty simple for me. Is the game fun? And is it worth the full price to play it? For this game yes and no. So I will wait for a sale and rock out.... period. I could care less what reviewers think or these BOTs on the internet.
Ok, you convinced me to give the demo another shot.. was the first thing I loaded on new ps5 so moved on pretty quick to try other stuff and then all the internet hate meant I never tried again.
I bought into the game early, deluxe. I love the game personally, so much fantasy. Yeah though it did have the odd lighting, I need to get back into it with the patches. I’ve played 120hz VRR (is VRR in effect?) RT setting from the get go. Never particularly noticed bad frames while playing, but good to know its even more stable now. The real shame here, is the branch out of a new franchise.. had really been hurt by all of this. And might hurt the attempt at other new franchises from Square Enix.
So, let me get this straight, you freaking enjoy Forspoken? you're saying that publicly off the cuff? Yeah, OK,, that's something you do now, you do the magic you kill jacked up beasts, you probably think Forspoken is GOTY next
Respect to them for improving the game significantly. A shame this trend of games launching in less that good state. It tells gamers to avoid day one purchase. Even FF16 needs the performance corrected.
I'm really curious about Forspoken after playing XVI. XVI to me is incredibly mediocre so it's like, how bad can Forspoken be? Same with that Stranger of Paradise game, really curious about that too now.
I loved ff16 but the performance really should be looked at. I may sound unreasonable, but I'd like to see the same exact graphics of resolution mode running at 60 fps. Ff16 looks beautiful but it doesn't look good enough to justify how low resolution and how muddy performance mode are.
@@raze2012_I don't think they're good at hidding it. A lot of youtubers complain about this all the time: both console users, and people who make reviews for console games, do tend to ignore performance issues. It's the complete opposite of what happens on PC. Take any game that it's considered as a bad PC port as an example. Oh, with one exception: The Last Of Us Part 1. That one is only bad on PC. But, Forspoken, Dead Space Remake, Wild Hearts, Redfall, Jedi Survivor, etc, did have the exact same issues they had on PC, but you don't hear people complaining about Jedi Survivor on consoles. Hell, I barely see people pointing at Final Fantasy XVI performance issues, and that's thing is barely playable. This is something I've started to notice more and more. I know it's not easy to look for performance issues on consoles, but we have channels like Digital Foundry to cover that. For instance, people on PC were complaining about Hogwarts Legacy performance, because it was to CPU heavy in some areas, specially in Hogsmeade. It turns out Xbox Series X had the exact same issues on the exact same areas. Hosmeade meant going under 60 fps. So, the PC port is good. It has perfect frametimes most of the time. You just have to install it on an SSD and have a good enough CPU for those CPU heavy areas, if you don't want to experience frame drops. Altho, I don't know if the performance is better now, and you no longer need those things. I just hope we start seeing more console games reviews talking about these perfomance issues, because they should drop points from games if they are released in a poor condition. They shouldn't even consider those issues can get fixed in the future, because a reviewer should look at the game as it is at the time he/she was playing it. I still can't believe no one talks about all the performance issues Jedi Survivor had on consoles. It's crazy.
@@joseijosei Totally. I loved FF16, but the performance mode is hot garbage. The game looks good on graphics mode, but on fps mode, not only it looks really bad, it doesn't even have a good performance.
@@joseijosei Take note that games on ps5 usually run better due to a custom ssd and sony being careful to what they release on their platform, they always seem to be better polished than xbox and pc titles.
@@yiannis777-l9c But that's not true. Digital Foundry already made a video about that. Many, actually, just straight up comparing ports. It is something people like to repeat a lot, but it's not true. Also, if they don't run better with similar hardware, when you comparte "better hardware" vs. PS5, things look even worst. I made this comments 8 months ago, and all I can say is that at least I'm seeing people complaining about the 30 fps target on Dragon's Dogma 2. Plus, people who recognize that the only way to run the game at over 60 fps is with a good PC, because I bet that, if it has that performance on PS5, it will be considered as a "bad PC port". Just wait a week and watch.
The two things that really stood out to me when I picked up this game on the cheap recently: - It has the hallmark "something went wrong in production" quality of story scenes constantly feeling like they're missing connective tissue which, in addition to the voice actors clearly never being in the same room as each other during recording, lends the game a weird sense of detachment. - The music is just awful for the most part, especially the battle "theme" which just sounds like generic danger music. Like, this is in the same engine as FFXV, and one of that game's saving graces was a really good soundtrack from Yoko Shimamura. It's unfortunately a game where you can feel the development team's lack of enthusiasm for the project, and no technical fixes can change that.
It's not a lack of enthusiasm you feel, it's what you literally first mentioned. Something went wrong with production. Too many voices frustrating the programmers. This is what leads to what you claim is lack of enthusiasm.
Yeah, Yoko is my favorite composer so I knew it wasn't going to hit that high that 15 did. But I just don't remember any songs in Forspoken at all. That's definitely where the Western part of this game shows. They prefer making that "cinematic" atmosphere to accompany the mood instead of a soundtrack that drives the mood home. the music should never "be in the way" and distract from the characters in this methodology. But Western media can do that because they lean so hard on the sheer presentation and actor performance. Which ofc was missing here.
Oh yeah the battle music (also exploration music in the demo) was SO BAD what a dissapointment after the beautiful just incredible theme song they came up with. Unironically I think music should be turned off while playing this game. It was tiring. Combine that with unstable framerate on release and it was hard to last more than 15 minutes before putting the game down.
I usually really like internal game technology being developed (except for Game Freak). So I think Luminous does have its purpose but the game direction failed on Forespoken
Simple AO is a pretty crude emulation of global illumination. Things don't simply get darker in corners, rather the light is multiplied by the brightness of the objects around them on every bounce. To approximate this and stop the AO from becoming too dark, some methods can raise or lower AO strength depending on the brightness of surrounding surfaces. Ideally the AO color could be tinted as well, though that is probably much more demanding and best left to raytracing.
Good to know that it's never a lack of skill from these developers providing solid performance mode frame rates, just a lack of polish and wanting to push things out to meet an arbitrary deadline. No wonder people hold off on buying things on release day, this is a perfect candidate for a maybe purchase on steam in the Christmas sale
I'll be real here Rise:- Son of rome and The Order:- 1886 impressed me FAR more in the Technical and Graphical Side than whatever this game is trying to achieve and Both are equally decent video games with stellar VA,better plot and everything and they are not even next gen titles yet they sure as hell look like one. This Game looks and feels as if it's generated by an AI....Both Visually AND The Script itself.
Generated by AI? Really? It's a very, very weird Japanese game that feels like it's from the PS2 era. It's extremely strange and there's really no other modern games like it, for better or for worse. I feel like you guys are just repeated what someone on the internet told you. 'Generated by AI' would be something like Days Gone, which randomly mashes together a bunch of popular concepts (Walking Dead, Sons of Anarchy, open world ubisoft game).
Nah I can see what they mean. The trailers and demo made the plot and characters seem really derivative. In many ways it felt more like a marvel movie than the final fantasy I think most people were hoping for. And if it feels like it's following an overused template then that's exactly what an AI writing the script would do. I'm not saying the plot actually was bad since I never bought the game, but those first impressions are what drove most people away. Properly communicating your game in advertising is important.
Ryse and The Order are both excellent tech demos that some games are yet to surpass, at least visually. Even if Ryse could be a stuttery mess, but we won't talk about that... The story though? Let's not get carried away. Ryse was like cheesy fanfic and The Order was just grey, grey bland dry sandwiches for 6 hrs. Voice acting, I'll agree was good though. Mo-capped too. Just a shame they were wasted in 6/10's.
Its interesting how this game uses luminous engine like FF15 that square created, FF7 uses custom unreal engine, FF16 uses what has been said to be some sort of updated crystal tools engine from FF13 and 14. Its like all of their studios are using different things and no consistency.
Actually FFXIV is a mix of Luminous and Crystal Tools (the first task of the Luminous Engine team was to create a game engine for A Realm Reborn based on their prototype). But yeah, I see your point : Square struggle to get the right engine for Final Fantasy. It should have been the Luminous, but when you see the state of Forspoken... I doubt Square will put more money to save the tech. FFXV is a fucking waste even in its legacy.
@@otcus5027 i thought they did a pretty damn good job with FF7 remake using unreal, granted the areas aren't too big, I guess we will see how rebirth turns out, should be much more open, solely on the latest generation.
@@MadMinstrel problem could be that their teams aren't comfortable using these engines, look at how forespoken turned out, not only did it not look as good as it was advertised, it's significantly worse while not running very well. I honestly just think luminous isn't a great engine, it worked for ff15 but that game also had some issues. The fact that they didn't choose to use their latest in house engine on FF7 and 16 which are very high profile games, is telling.
I think people just want a decent game with a decent frame rate: a 60fps mode that delivers. Linneman is obsessed with foliage and lighting that most don't even notice. Would improved lighting make a shit game good? Would detailed foliage improve the enjoyment of a crap game? Make better games, is what we should all be crying out in unison, not "make that leaf more accurate".
Its called game optimisation, and shouldnt be impressive because there were times when games came out fully optimized day one its part of the job of a good developer
As someone who ignored all the groupthink bandwagon hate and half-assed reviews by critics that mostly didn’t even finish the game as evidenced by their reviews, I love the game. Platinumed it and 100% everything including In Tanta We Trust DLC. It's my GOTY so far and could care less what anyone thinks about that. Gameplay-wise, it's the perfect combination of elements from games I love like Dragon's Dogma, Infamous, Spider-Man/Miles Morales, Devil May Cry, Horizon, Final Fantasy XV, Assassin's Creed, Breath of the Wild, and Sonic The Hedgehog to name a few. Furthermore, it has the most fun parkour platforming/traversal system and mechanics in any open world game in terms of fluidity and pure flow.
2023 has to be the biggest year for gaming at both ends. The worst game of the year is a hot race. Forsaken took an early lead by then we got red fall and so quickly came gollum. Can't wait to see what else gets pushed out the rest of this year.
I don't understand all the bashing on Forspoken. I love FF16 and it's one of the best games in a long time from SE, but I also enjoyed and played Forspoken all the way through.... Sure it's not perfect graphically, but it was fun.
I always thought that the hate the game got was waaaay too excessive. It’s not a 10/10 by any means, but people were acting like it shot their dog, asked "Did I just do that? I did not just do that!" and thus should be shamed into oblivion. I finished it when it released and definitely had fun with it, but it’s one of those "you have to play it for 20 hours before it gets good" type of games and if you’re not in the market for the long haul, you’re not gonna like what it has to offer. It’s still a complete experience, telling a complete story from start to finish and when you unlocked more of the magic available the combat is actually pretty fun and traversing the world can be pretty cool as well.
Might want to check the audio levels when you're mastering these videos, it's extremely low compared to other content (including audio i master myself)
The only silver lining to this whole modern prevalence of games launching in unsatisfactory state is that DF’s follow up videos are interesting. We, as gamers, often get to see how games change during the last phase of development since the general public is now part of the QA team.
Yeah these two issues were the biggest thing for me as well. Same problem with motion sickness in games like FF16, I don't understand how can so many players enjoy and praise the game at such unstable framerates, for me it's too tiring to play, and 30 fps option is too choppy on oled to be playable just the same. Forespoken now seems playable without feeling nauseated after 20 minutes, but the problem of boring empty world remains. And I am waiting for performance fix on FF16 for STABLE 60 fps before I get into it.
@@neocodexx for FF16 i'm glad they update the game to have motion blur options, now you can turn it off completely, for me personally the best is 1 for motion blur because it doesn't make me sick and also it hides the choppy frame rate when you turn the camera during exploration default motion blur is 5 which is the maximum, crazy how they decide to give heavy motion blur on the game with no option to turn it off at launch day of the game unfortunately frame rate hasn't been optimized yet, i hope they will update it too for PS5. i don't wanna wait for pc release to feel stable 60 fps, but i doubt i will get 60 fps on pc since my pc currently has mid spec
@@rexxel8867 I actually don't mind motion blur as much and in some cases if used well it can look really good. It's just the framerate. It's more of an oled issue too. As soon as you go under 60 it starts feeling choppy and tiring to play (depends on game but movement heavy like forespoken is the worst offender, even 60 is bare minimum for a game like that, FF16 is slightly more passable but I'll wait)
Around 12-minute mark our host mentions that the game feels like it's playing itself. I agree with that idea, that sometimes it feels like games play itself which truly ruins the gaming experience.
Spell combat was awesome but with only little enemy varieties gets bored easily. Other aspects of the game really disappoints. They should have done like the dlc~Hope they continue to improve this style of combat instead of just giving up the Ip
I wanted this game to be successful just because games and movies heavily rely on established ips or franchises. When original games fail, the less likely big developers will take a chance making a AAA original title.
The thing is, this game honestly wasn't as bad as the hate it got. But it got absolutely smashed by influencers on youtube. Smashed so hard that Luminous Productions is no more either. So we'll never see a original game like this, nor its possible sequel that was hinted. That's what happens now hwen you release an big original game in 2023 and arent "perfect".
@@JosueOrtiz237then you shouldn't be able to speak on it from what I've heard the game was pretty good but review bombed cause the main protagonist was a minority.
Have DF changed their audio mixing setup in recent videos? Every few videos or so, the volume is so low I have to crank up my stereos nearly to max to hear anything.
@@InfinitePCGaming it wasnt good at all. You can like it but that don't make it good, I like some shitty games or mid games ( due to either being funny or having one good core concept ) and ill never claim they are good.
Luminous Productions had a terrible habit of false advertising their games. I guarantee FF15 would've gotten a quarter of the sales if people actually realized what they were buying. Just like how everyone realized what Forspoken was, before buying.
@@bigdaddynerothe gameplay is amazing story is pretty mid I prefer forspoken combat mechanics over a lot of triple AAA titles sad the reviewers killed it the first hour it dropped really fun game
As stated by luke stephens, I fully agree with him. The combat is the selling point of the game, other than that theres nothing else in the game. Its like a cake with a nice frosting to cover it up but cake itself is bad. The combat and graphics is the frosting in this case; the story and world is the cake
I must admit that I had quite a bit more fun with Forspoken's combat system compared to FFXVI. While Forspoken does take some time to get used to, it feels more comprehensive to me, like the different spells and abilites are meant to work in conjunction with each other and the different enemy types. Controlling Clive in FFXVI on the other hand feels almost like a poor man's Devil May Cry with a combo system that is not worth using, because you are not rewarded for it, and abilities that for the most part just do damage and almost nothing else. There's hardly any crowd control, no buffs or debuffs, no vulnerabilities or other interesting RPG combat mechanics. The more Eikon abilities you get, the more apparent this becomes, because basic abilities and combos are even less important. It's basically just fill the stagger, do damage, repeat.
They optimized it??? AND significantly improved the graphics and resolution on top ?!?!?! Wow my faith in humanity got a tiny bit restored now... I really did expect them to leave it to just die
I took a chance on this game and ended up loving it. Glad DF is highlighting these improvements. I used DF's recommended settings of 40fps RT mode, and since I started on version 1.2 my experience was overall positive.
@@banuner_ Yeah I think its reasonable to say it was priced wrong. I think I got mine for 40. Its funny how frame of mind going into a game can totally change how it feels. If I went into Forspoken paying 70 bucks thinking it was going to be a AAAA experience, yeah it's not that game. But because I heard it was mixed results and I just went in looking for a simple and fun experience, I ended up finding that. The hardest part now honestly is just being at peace that we'll never see a sequel.
@@AJBats price tags really set expectations. If you sell your game for $70 its going to be judged against other similarly priced games. Had Forspoken launched at $40 or maybe even $50 i think its reception would have been waaaay better.
Please Oliver, do something for the volume, I have to get over 150% of my volume just to hear you. Don't let John, Richard, Alex or Audi silence your voice, SPEAK UP !
I hope they don't drop the luminous engine because I think that there is still a lot of potential and positives to this engine. A competent studio with a good direction could use this engine to its full potential. Its unfortunate that the game ended up this way. I will probs play this in the future once the game has both the full game and dlc in a bundle and the price drops further. Thank you for the update Oliver!
No it’s a clusterfuck, how this game drops to 1080p on ps5 is a disgrace, square Enix and a lot of Japanese devs are just bad at performant game engines
@@RidinSpinners36 yeah that’s the only good and performant one I can think of, the rest are shit.. elden ring engine is crap, luminous is crap, literally 99 percent of Japanese games have horrible performance and graphics. It’s sad because Japanese games have good stories and gameplay
I don't really think it matters which engien they move forward with. Luminous engine has features that would be great to have in the FFXVI engine and vise versa, but there doesn't seem to be anything fundamenyally in either engine that would prevent developers from adding the features to either. However since FFXVI engine has a lot of the more expensive to develop features I think the cheaper option is just to port over functionality from Luminous engine.
They will fix the framrate on FF16 , just give them the time. square enix they are very good on that. the problem is i hope the dlc will have good side quest 😅
Honestly I don't think there is anything confusing about them releasing 2 games with such different feeling gameplay in the span of a few months. CBU3 had a plan and goals on how they wanted their combat to play. They hired/recruited the people to execute that plan. Luminous has always been pretty aimless in comparison. It's a distant memory now but never forget the FF15 demo had basically a completely different combat system than the full game, and they were only a year from release at that point. It used all the same animations and such but the context of it all was completely different. You had a single core combo and you slotted in animations for each action (opening strike, main string, finisher, etc.) Point being, Yoshi-P and the team knew exactly what they wanted FF16 combat to be on day one. Luminous on the other hand seems to just fly by the seat of their pants and what they land on is what they land on. So you end up with something that feels unbalanced and less polished where as FF16 executes its combat design goals pretty much flawlessly.
sounds like a management/trust problem TBH. I don't think we need to tell the entire development story of FF Versus XIII -> XV again, so I'll skip that. But for Forspoken, it sounds like they did start doing that, and then plans shifted. They hired and marketed Whetta and Henning and by release we hear from both that they more or less had their script thrown out. We see an ambitious trailer with next gen graphics and then hear of an 8 month delay and a release that falls short of those expectations. Despite the fact that they could improve this much in only 6 months. They make a really great feeling traversal system and proceed to have nothing in the world interact with that outside of 00's style race quests. They have this interesting world with 4 interesting Monarchs and the game is so rushed that the 3rd queen isn't even a boss battle and the 4th queen was a plot twist rather than a potential strong emotional beat to clash over. It sounds like the issue came down to budgets. FF15 was a mess on release but they had 2 years to work on it afterwards and improved on nearly every aspect (as well as making some really damn good character DLC). Forspokken as a name was never going to get that sort of trust and they sure weren't going to delay it to a point where it got in the way of FF16, let alone FF7R 2 in the winter. It's clear at some point it was desinated as being sent out to die, doing the bare minimum to recoup whatever huge dev budget it accrues and satisfy contracts (remember, Sony and AMD had deals with this game).
you're not correct, but also not entirely wrong. Forespoken's Luminous engine (which was FF15's engine) is a direct descendant of a previously used engine called "Crystal Tools", used for FF13 and FF14 version 1.0. FF16 on the other hand, uses a heavily modded version of the current FF14 engine (From 2.0 onwards) which was basically made after Crystal Tools So the technology from these two games came from the same source, but ended up with very different state/outcome
And annnnd different teams with different engine experience. "Why this square game good?" and "Why this square game bad?" Are the most immature questions asked by the internet regarding games released by the same companies. He even goes on to compare it to ff16 when ff would clearly receive more attention from Square proper than a new IP😂 edit: imo of course of course
@@MikaMausArt Not saying that that's what happened here, but to further add to your comment, people also underestimate how much technology can be shared between engines even when the foundation is not the same. Look at KH3, it's on Unreal 4, but I'd still say their VFX are consistent with other SE AAA games even though it's an other engine. It's entirely possible they has an internal VFX framework that they update and port to use on different engines. Same thing can happen with so many systems in different games. It's not free. You need to put engineer's time on it, but it's entirely possible.
This is Honest Objective Opinion. Forspoken now is Amazing Game that we can draw parallel with Secret Of Evermore on SNS when other games were Legend of Mana , Chrono Trigger ect. Many skipped Secret Of Evermore back in then but later it become revelation and same is with Forspoken, it's Large World with Story that is explaining whole in game world and all Action that is happening and especially after this Update. Who don't know what is Secret Of Evermore go and see and remember that during it's life on SNS it was rated as bad or average but for me it was something that I was able to relate especially because I was watching Movies without synchronization, I had and still have the freedom to hear the voices of actors
I played this game on max settings +raytracing at 4k dlss quality with my 4070 super at 30fps with lossless scaling frame generation 2.1 30fps to 60. plus forced 16x anisotropic filtering through nvidia control panel, and it looks absolute STUNNING! unbelievably beautiful and smooth experience. yes, a slight input lag, but I played with a controller and it felt fine. looked 1000 times better than quality mode on ps5
for everyone wondering- performance mode is still blurry, especially with the foliage which falls apart and is distractingly blurry, noisy, and weird looking although not as bad as before, and it still drops some frames in the open world and combat. the other two main modes fix the issue for the gross looking foliage but looks significantly choppy with quite a lot of input delay. though, the performance mode is finally (in my opinion) playable. although not preferable nor great, and 100% would rather play in 40hz quality.
This game has better combat and a more satisfying open world compared to FFXVI. *puts on flame suit* To elaborate: In some ways Forspoken almost feels like a spiritual successor to Nier Automata with it's much more responsive combat and fast traversal. Or heck, even something like Just Cause. I have a hard time going back from that at least. FF16 was just super slow in comparison and a lot of enemies felt like straight up HP sponges.
Not really. The biggest problem was the overall cringe main character. This game has still some major flaws which they cant fix. The only interesting part is the traversal & the magic combat imo.
Picked it up on the Summer Steam sale. It dropped from around $100 CDN to like $40 so despite it going in the backlog, I felt the price was worth it. Might get to it sometime this fall / winter (After Spiderman 2 on PS5)
A well-made video, and I'm glad you made it. I do have the usual complaint about volume level. Digital Foundry is always too quiet, but your voice-overs are exceptionally quiet, Oliver. I know some people might prefer the ASMR-like sound, but I think you should take a day and study some videos about how to narrate; IMO, you need to vocalize more authoritatively and learn to project your voice. Look up "stage voice"; that's the voice you want to use while recording. It would make your videos a lot more enjoyable, I think.
Big fan of these "revisited" performance reviews. I almost never buy games day 1, because I'm a normal, patient adult who prefers cheaper games with fewer bugs and fuller content. So a video describing how a game performs after the patches are in and all is said and done is way more useful and relevant long-term imo
The last 5 big titles I've played ALL were half the price, with 25% more content, and zero bugs/better graphical options. Especially games that are both on PS4 and PS5. You'd actually be insane to play a game for your first time on launch nowadays.
You're very smart 👌
Same man. Wait a year or more, get the better version and cheaper.
Man I was that impulse buyer y'all speak of ..... Live and learn 😂
Me too. Especially now when games are released with improvements planned. I think the only game i did buy day one was FF16, but it was really cuz my son wanted to play it badly.
Just shows that many game companies like Square Enix need to work to consolidate their teams and studios to share technology and toolsets
Square DID that’s the funny thing. Yet then they went and formed luminous after consolidating into 4 collective business units.
But then there’s the risk of every project looking too similar…
@@malekaiusthat’s not how that works…
@@willuigi64 that’s not how risks work?
@@malekaius that’s not how consolidating tech works. Is your memory so prone to forgetting context?
Really liked this new way of showing dynamic resolution with a table chart. It demonstrates better how the resolution actually behaves rather than just state a range as, for example, 720p to 1080p. Some people only consider the lower count and others olny the higher count when it actually varies a lot betwen scenes. Great idea and I hope you guys keep using it! (PS: Sorry for bad english)
AGREE
Your english is great just fyi
It's really weird how many messages I see with perfectly good English until the apology at the end for bad English (e.g. "sorry my bad English").
@@cptnoremac I think a lot of non-native english speakers don't realize how lazy and dumb most native speakers are (myself included sometimes, lol).
@@cptnoremac I feel like these people are native speakers trolling at this point
If you look in the XVI credits, 1/3 of Luminous Productions helped out on XVI production while they were also developing Forspoken. Just shows where SE's priorities were and why one game that had to release across PC and PS5 would fare worse than the other game with a longer dev time and optimization focused solely on PS5.
I'm so glad someone else is mentioning this. you could tell ff16 got preferential treatment when it came to studio-wide resources. that's why the game is getting its polish and refinements post-launch, AFTER FF16's launch. The game is waaay better than ppl are willing to admit, but the technical issues gave them a reason to justify their hate.
@@salinalee2613 Now for them to redo some issues with FFXVI, so we can actually get stable 30 and 60fps in their respective modes.
@@salinalee2613 Yeah. And that's not even taking into account the huge open world they were making in Forspoken. I think the devs bit off more than they could chew because the world didn't even need to be that large given the story takes you only thorugh 15-20% of the whole map lol. The way Forspoken was treated is a shame.
@@lockekappa500 yeah I really wish they fix the frame drops on performance mode. I only have a 1080p TV, so I don't really gain much from the quality mode, but I'd rather have a somewhat steady 30fps than a 60fps mode that keeps going up and down constantly.
It's not like FF16 was flawless though.
The game dipping to 720p in combat and only using FSR1 instead of FSR2 is pretty ridiculous.
And those are only some of the issues.
it's so weird that square enix have different engines for their big budget games
FF7R - unreal engine 4 (it was really great)
Forspoken - Luminous (just decent since FF15)
KH3 - unreal engine (great)
FF16 - i heard it was a custom engine also used for FF14 (amazing graphic wise)
they always used varied engine, but before with KH3 they want to force the game to use luminous but i'm glad they shifted to unreal engine instead (i think FF7R is also the same?)
i know SE want to do what capcom did, make their own engine for their games especially big budget games, but unfortunately it was a failure for 2 times currently. Crystal Engine and now Luminous, both of them struggle with performance.
meanwhile Capcom have been using their RE engine since RE7 and it's great so far. Which means RE engine so far is a success for them
Great video. Once again sadly we see a game that could have been better with more time put behind it... It's starting to be annoying but now I buy games 6 to 12 months after their release. They cost way less usually and run way better.
Yeah, with GT7 frame drops
And final fantasy 16 demos has frame drops too
I'm waiting for ps5 pro before purchasing jedi survivor, FF16, FF7 rebirth, phantom liberty and many others
Same here. It makes no sense to buy games at release anymore. It's sad as it ruins the excitement of new releases. Getting hyped up for new games is part of the enjoyment you get from gaming and that's now gone.
@@grahamt19781no sense?
Really?
@@Pointman11111unless it's a MP focused game or so, why buy a game on launch day when 99% of them come out with performance issues, missing features, bugs etc.??
You buy same game 3-6 months later, problems are ironed out, preorder bonuses most of the the time can be bought as DLC and game is all ready on discount at that point.
Capcom was one of the rare dev/publisher which would release day 1 ready games to play, but even RE4 came out with performance issues until it was fixed.
@@givemorexp my god are you shortsighted
What happens if a game doesn't get high initial sales and doesn't make enough revenue?
It's not 99% and even if, it's not 99% of one individual game
Great turnout, looks AND runs way better! I’m glad they took the time to address and actually fix these issues, but as mentioned, this is how it should’ve shipped.
Great work on the coverage!
Also, to anyone with a compatible display, give the 40fps mode a try. It’s really great and much much more responsive than the 30fps mode.
The lighting in FF16 is amazing, particularly in the sandy desert regions of the continent. I think at times, outside of the major cutscenes and battle moments, it can look a little worse (certainly, the character animations and lip sync are nowhere near as good as Horizon FW, for example, in the side content), but overall FF16 is beautiful. Pretty stark how different this looks compared.
FF16 looks great. They mentioned it uses some sort of raytraced shadows throughout which is why lighting and shadows are excellent in the game but this is also the reason why resolution and frame-rate gets a big hit in the game, but tbh the performance is stable enough when it matters and the game itself is perfectly polished throughout.
Yoshi P said FF16 isn't using Luminous Engine its using its own custom engine
it's not as good as HFW or TLOU part 2 for ff16
I am still waiting for the PC version.. to see it in all glory! Ofc, I already played the hell out of it on the PS5, but I want it on PC :D
@@Helifax19righttttt me too. Its gonna be amazing
I love ff16 but I do wish it gets a update like forspoken have,at time it feels very blurry even on graphics mode.Bump in resolution,change of upscaler possibly to FSR2,a 40fps option,better performing 60fps mode would be great.
I’ve played maybe an hour or so and just installed the motion blur patch. Will keep holding off until there’s a 40fps balanced mode or they stabilize the game a little better
Hard to “adjust” to this game when coming from forbidden west and ragnarok. Hell I just finished days gone and that game runs incredibly well and looks great for a ps4 game..
Yeah but this reviewer isn’t going to mention that about FF16. It gets a pass. People are way too overtly critical of Forspoken. FF16 copied so much from it coming out so much after and Forspoken deserves credit for its fast, fluid, fun combat.
I got this game for 9.99 on Black Friday. What a deal
You should do an update piece on how EA/Respawn have not updated Jedi Survivor's terrible performance and how they are just ignoring players about doing so. Many people, including myself, bought the game and are waiting for a respectable performance patch before playing the game through.
I mean it's Ea what does that company care about 😂
Pretty much why I haven't bought it on PC. Nothing EA does or doesn't do surprises me at this point. If you are on PC running an Nvidia card the DLSS mod seems to help a lot.
Massive improvement. Still not interested in the game, but it's good to see they put the effort to improve the disastrous lighting.
p.s. This video was super silent for me.
Yep,it’s having a -14.9dB level in YT stats - definitely needs amplification.
Hi Oliver, I just want to inform you that every video of yours has that lower sound volume. Literally I need to double my sound amp output to hear you properly. Just compare it with any other DF video or any other content and you'll see it. I hope you can fix it in the future works. Thank you so much for this great analysis.
Second this, thought it was just me 😅
Yep. YT stats show content loudness -14.9 dB for this video. This is too low. In my experience, it should be no lower than around -5dB. Basically 10dB louder for best result. It's good when you watch it at home with adequate sound config. You just crank the amp and solve the problem. You don't have that luxury when watching on a phone or a laptop, so that's why it's important. Also if you have an ad midway through the video... lol
Great video though! Lol
I’m really enjoying this game; it grew on me. Sure it didn’t get off to a great start as expected, but the graphical and performance improvements I felt made the game stronger. I would like to see a sequel to the game. Sadly we won’t b/c of bad sales.
Forspoken got oppressed with hate. While other games with the same issues got a little bit of hate and then forgotten about.
Revisited gameplay videos are the ones that makes me buy games.
Really enjoying Forspoken right now, started without expectations and and pretty fun.
good to hear! It was on of most fun games I played this year
@@HiCZoK finally a game again similar to Prototype
@@Pointman11111 Dang, you must really hate Prototype to compare it to Forspoken - sick burn...
@@JohnBrowser2013 no
I remember seeing the first trailer and being hyped, then playing the demo and having that hype cool off a lot. It went from a must buy to wait for sale. I ended up getting it half price and I've actually been enjoying it more than I thought I would. It's definitely not without its issues but core gameplay is fun and the world and lore are pretty interesting.
Same. I waited for a sale, I'm not gonna say it's a great game, but there's a lot about it I like.
I actually this game and hope for some miracle of a part 2
I respect that, but it’s probably the most bland game I’ve ever played. The open world, the dialogue, the story, just everything about it felt really bland. The combat was decent, but is the only thing about the game I can say is at least decent.
I honestly find interesting the results between Forspoken and Final Fantasy XVI, from what Yoshi-P said, they wanted to use tech they we're already used to when developing FF16, wich would be the engine used in Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn and so on, which was an Early version of Luminous that they've been working on for years. So basically, we have two different version of what would be the same engine, the Luminous Production version developed and updated for Forspoken, and the Yoshi-P team version of Luminous that was updated and used in Final Fantasy XVI, both with their strengths and weaknesses. I really curious about the future of Luminous and how they'll enhance the engine after Final Fantasy XVI.
I get the impression that a lot of the 16 development changes to graphics and fidelity is what we're gonna see with the 7.0 FF14 expansion update, which promises tons of shader, texture, and lighting overhauls.
@@hehashivemind6111 It's gonna be really interesting to see how much of a glow up this update with PBR textures and new shaders will make to Final Fantasy XIV, Phantasy Star Online 2 new genesis almost doesn't look like it is the same game.
So i'm confused....
So PS4 games played on the PS4 Pro/PS5 can achieve 2160p perfectly.
But PS5 native games are having problems staying above 720p? O.o
Did we just go backwards.....What is this, 2009?
I plan on getting this when I see a sale, i really enjoyed the demo. I'm glad they are continually updating it.
I had tons of fun playing the game, honestly. I know it felt short for some people in some ways, but it was generally a very enjoyable experience for me, both the exploration and combat. Do get it if you see it on sale, it's worth it.
I platinumed it and loved the game. It's honestly got its issues, but it's nowhere near as bad as the angry mob said it is.
@@roodinverse most of these people in the comments are NPCs that don't know how to think for themselves. It pretty simple for me. Is the game fun? And is it worth the full price to play it? For this game yes and no. So I will wait for a sale and rock out.... period. I could care less what reviewers think or these BOTs on the internet.
Ok, you convinced me to give the demo another shot.. was the first thing I loaded on new ps5 so moved on pretty quick to try other stuff and then all the internet hate meant I never tried again.
@@roodinverseThe game isn’t terrible, just extremely bland, and the dialogue is absolutely abysmal
I bought into the game early, deluxe. I love the game personally, so much fantasy. Yeah though it did have the odd lighting, I need to get back into it with the patches. I’ve played 120hz VRR (is VRR in effect?) RT setting from the get go. Never particularly noticed bad frames while playing, but good to know its even more stable now. The real shame here, is the branch out of a new franchise.. had really been hurt by all of this. And might hurt the attempt at other new franchises from Square Enix.
I suppose this explains why I seemed to have liked Forspoken a lot more than everyone else. I only just played and beat it a couple weeks ago.
So, let me get this straight, you freaking enjoy Forspoken?
you're saying that publicly off the cuff?
Yeah, OK,, that's something you do now, you do the magic
you kill jacked up beasts, you probably think Forspoken is GOTY next
@@Faith1713 no, selling...'s joke is not funny nor does it make sense. And it's 4 "o"s.
@@Faith1713 The joke isn't funny here
@@sellingacoerwa8318So let me get this straight.....what are we talking about?
Respect to them for improving the game significantly. A shame this trend of games launching in less that good state. It tells gamers to avoid day one purchase. Even FF16 needs the performance corrected.
Hope that final fantasy 16 gets the same treatment
Fun game but they need to fix the performance. It's really bad in some areas especially in the desert town on performance mode.
Ff16 is so boring
@@paulysmallz8095 No.
I'm really curious about Forspoken after playing XVI. XVI to me is incredibly mediocre so it's like, how bad can Forspoken be? Same with that Stranger of Paradise game, really curious about that too now.
I loved ff16 but the performance really should be looked at. I may sound unreasonable, but I'd like to see the same exact graphics of resolution mode running at 60 fps. Ff16 looks beautiful but it doesn't look good enough to justify how low resolution and how muddy performance mode are.
I'm surprised they managed to increase the frame rate AND the resolution in this update. The game must have had some serious optimization problems...
most games do, the goods ones simply know how to hide it better and where to cut corners.
@@raze2012_I don't think they're good at hidding it. A lot of youtubers complain about this all the time: both console users, and people who make reviews for console games, do tend to ignore performance issues. It's the complete opposite of what happens on PC.
Take any game that it's considered as a bad PC port as an example. Oh, with one exception: The Last Of Us Part 1. That one is only bad on PC. But, Forspoken, Dead Space Remake, Wild Hearts, Redfall, Jedi Survivor, etc, did have the exact same issues they had on PC, but you don't hear people complaining about Jedi Survivor on consoles. Hell, I barely see people pointing at Final Fantasy XVI performance issues, and that's thing is barely playable.
This is something I've started to notice more and more. I know it's not easy to look for performance issues on consoles, but we have channels like Digital Foundry to cover that. For instance, people on PC were complaining about Hogwarts Legacy performance, because it was to CPU heavy in some areas, specially in Hogsmeade. It turns out Xbox Series X had the exact same issues on the exact same areas. Hosmeade meant going under 60 fps. So, the PC port is good. It has perfect frametimes most of the time. You just have to install it on an SSD and have a good enough CPU for those CPU heavy areas, if you don't want to experience frame drops. Altho, I don't know if the performance is better now, and you no longer need those things.
I just hope we start seeing more console games reviews talking about these perfomance issues, because they should drop points from games if they are released in a poor condition. They shouldn't even consider those issues can get fixed in the future, because a reviewer should look at the game as it is at the time he/she was playing it. I still can't believe no one talks about all the performance issues Jedi Survivor had on consoles. It's crazy.
@@joseijosei Totally. I loved FF16, but the performance mode is hot garbage. The game looks good on graphics mode, but on fps mode, not only it looks really bad, it doesn't even have a good performance.
@@joseijosei Take note that games on ps5 usually run better due to a custom ssd and sony being careful to what they release on their platform, they always seem to be better polished than xbox and pc titles.
@@yiannis777-l9c But that's not true. Digital Foundry already made a video about that. Many, actually, just straight up comparing ports. It is something people like to repeat a lot, but it's not true.
Also, if they don't run better with similar hardware, when you comparte "better hardware" vs. PS5, things look even worst.
I made this comments 8 months ago, and all I can say is that at least I'm seeing people complaining about the 30 fps target on Dragon's Dogma 2. Plus, people who recognize that the only way to run the game at over 60 fps is with a good PC, because I bet that, if it has that performance on PS5, it will be considered as a "bad PC port". Just wait a week and watch.
The two things that really stood out to me when I picked up this game on the cheap recently:
- It has the hallmark "something went wrong in production" quality of story scenes constantly feeling like they're missing connective tissue which, in addition to the voice actors clearly never being in the same room as each other during recording, lends the game a weird sense of detachment.
- The music is just awful for the most part, especially the battle "theme" which just sounds like generic danger music. Like, this is in the same engine as FFXV, and one of that game's saving graces was a really good soundtrack from Yoko Shimamura.
It's unfortunately a game where you can feel the development team's lack of enthusiasm for the project, and no technical fixes can change that.
No enthusiasm for the checklist ESG game huh, surprising.
It's not a lack of enthusiasm you feel, it's what you literally first mentioned. Something went wrong with production. Too many voices frustrating the programmers. This is what leads to what you claim is lack of enthusiasm.
Yeah, Yoko is my favorite composer so I knew it wasn't going to hit that high that 15 did. But I just don't remember any songs in Forspoken at all.
That's definitely where the Western part of this game shows. They prefer making that "cinematic" atmosphere to accompany the mood instead of a soundtrack that drives the mood home. the music should never "be in the way" and distract from the characters in this methodology. But Western media can do that because they lean so hard on the sheer presentation and actor performance. Which ofc was missing here.
Oh yeah the battle music (also exploration music in the demo) was SO BAD what a dissapointment after the beautiful just incredible theme song they came up with. Unironically I think music should be turned off while playing this game. It was tiring. Combine that with unstable framerate on release and it was hard to last more than 15 minutes before putting the game down.
Even if we don't get a direct sequel, I would love Forspoken's game play to live on. So much promise.
Gameplay is the infamous series from sucker punch(ghost of tsushima)
I usually really like internal game technology being developed (except for Game Freak). So I think Luminous does have its purpose but the game direction failed on Forespoken
@@v1kt0u5 Luminous is the name of the engine it's running on.
Too bad there's not a chance they'll further develop it now or reuse it now.
What was technically impressive about Luminous? This is the only game I know used it, so I obviously haven't seen it at its best.
@@existentialselkath1264 Final Fantasy 15 uses it and the original showcases for Kingdom Hearts 3 used it
@@existentialselkath1264FF 15 looked amazing and that used the Luminous engine.
Hope they do this for FF16. Performance mode on that game looks horrendous.
Simple AO is a pretty crude emulation of global illumination. Things don't simply get darker in corners, rather the light is multiplied by the brightness of the objects around them on every bounce.
To approximate this and stop the AO from becoming too dark, some methods can raise or lower AO strength depending on the brightness of surrounding surfaces. Ideally the AO color could be tinted as well, though that is probably much more demanding and best left to raytracing.
Good to know that it's never a lack of skill from these developers providing solid performance mode frame rates, just a lack of polish and wanting to push things out to meet an arbitrary deadline. No wonder people hold off on buying things on release day, this is a perfect candidate for a maybe purchase on steam in the Christmas sale
I'll be real here
Rise:- Son of rome and The Order:- 1886 impressed me FAR more in the Technical and Graphical Side than whatever this game is trying to achieve and Both are equally decent video games with stellar VA,better plot and everything and they are not even next gen titles yet they sure as hell look like one.
This Game looks and feels as if it's generated by an AI....Both Visually AND The Script itself.
iTs GeNeRaTeD bY aI
Is the new
jOuRnAliStS bAd
Generated by AI? Really? It's a very, very weird Japanese game that feels like it's from the PS2 era. It's extremely strange and there's really no other modern games like it, for better or for worse. I feel like you guys are just repeated what someone on the internet told you.
'Generated by AI' would be something like Days Gone, which randomly mashes together a bunch of popular concepts (Walking Dead, Sons of Anarchy, open world ubisoft game).
Nah I can see what they mean. The trailers and demo made the plot and characters seem really derivative. In many ways it felt more like a marvel movie than the final fantasy I think most people were hoping for. And if it feels like it's following an overused template then that's exactly what an AI writing the script would do.
I'm not saying the plot actually was bad since I never bought the game, but those first impressions are what drove most people away. Properly communicating your game in advertising is important.
Ryse and The Order are both excellent tech demos that some games are yet to surpass, at least visually. Even if Ryse could be a stuttery mess, but we won't talk about that... The story though? Let's not get carried away. Ryse was like cheesy fanfic and The Order was just grey, grey bland dry sandwiches for 6 hrs.
Voice acting, I'll agree was good though. Mo-capped too. Just a shame they were wasted in 6/10's.
Its interesting how this game uses luminous engine like FF15 that square created, FF7 uses custom unreal engine, FF16 uses what has been said to be some sort of updated crystal tools engine from FF13 and 14. Its like all of their studios are using different things and no consistency.
Actually FFXIV is a mix of Luminous and Crystal Tools (the first task of the Luminous Engine team was to create a game engine for A Realm Reborn based on their prototype).
But yeah, I see your point : Square struggle to get the right engine for Final Fantasy.
It should have been the Luminous, but when you see the state of Forspoken... I doubt Square will put more money to save the tech. FFXV is a fucking waste even in its legacy.
Maybe its a pride thing not to copy others homework?
@@otcus5027bro Xv is the superior ff game trust me people will praise it once ff stays this way they made 16 just watch
@@otcus5027 i thought they did a pretty damn good job with FF7 remake using unreal, granted the areas aren't too big, I guess we will see how rebirth turns out, should be much more open, solely on the latest generation.
@@MadMinstrel problem could be that their teams aren't comfortable using these engines, look at how forespoken turned out, not only did it not look as good as it was advertised, it's significantly worse while not running very well. I honestly just think luminous isn't a great engine, it worked for ff15 but that game also had some issues. The fact that they didn't choose to use their latest in house engine on FF7 and 16 which are very high profile games, is telling.
I think people just want a decent game with a decent frame rate: a 60fps mode that delivers.
Linneman is obsessed with foliage and lighting that most don't even notice. Would improved lighting make a shit game good? Would detailed foliage improve the enjoyment of a crap game?
Make better games, is what we should all be crying out in unison, not "make that leaf more accurate".
I hope we can get simillar improvements for Jedi Survivor.
I just closed a studio with my freaking mind
Oliver, your mic sounds exceptionally low. It's very, very hard to hear you, unless I blast my volume to 150%.
I do love DF’s meticulous details, but at the end of the day, this game is still Forspoken. Nothing can change that. 😂
With enough mods you could but why bother lol
Very nice. I might pick this up after Diablo IV, FFXVI and Baldurs Gate. Thanks for the overview!
That's interesting, if anything you should have started with this game first, which is inferior significantly to those beasts you mentioned
I really like what Oliver doing since he joined DF but man please put your voice volume a little bit higher
I'm trying to figure out what's a better option - Quality 120Hz or RT 120Hz?
Any suggestions?
This was truly an underated game. It wasn't the best, but a far cry from all the hate it got.
Super appreciate this update on Forespoken. I planned on playing it but ended up skipping because the reaction to it's launch was like a wet blanket
Why be a sheep?
@@SmokinJoe000Because it sparked them paying full price for one of the worst games released this year.
That's actually impressive that they've managed to hit stable 60 while increasing resolution and lighting.
Its called game optimisation, and shouldnt be impressive because there were times when games came out fully optimized day one its part of the job of a good developer
As someone who ignored all the groupthink bandwagon hate and half-assed reviews by critics that mostly didn’t even finish the game as evidenced by their reviews, I love the game. Platinumed it and 100% everything including In Tanta We Trust DLC. It's my GOTY so far and could care less what anyone thinks about that. Gameplay-wise, it's the perfect combination of elements from games I love like Dragon's Dogma, Infamous, Spider-Man/Miles Morales, Devil May Cry, Horizon, Final Fantasy XV, Assassin's Creed, Breath of the Wild, and Sonic The Hedgehog to name a few. Furthermore, it has the most fun parkour platforming/traversal system and mechanics in any open world game in terms of fluidity and pure flow.
2023 has to be the biggest year for gaming at both ends. The worst game of the year is a hot race. Forsaken took an early lead by then we got red fall and so quickly came gollum. Can't wait to see what else gets pushed out the rest of this year.
I feel bad for whoever the Gollum environment artists are, because they're clearly the only people on that team who even tried.
I don't understand all the bashing on Forspoken. I love FF16 and it's one of the best games in a long time from SE, but I also enjoyed and played Forspoken all the way through.... Sure it's not perfect graphically, but it was fun.
just only the visual and performance improvement?
that's the last thing on the fun list.
I always thought that the hate the game got was waaaay too excessive. It’s not a 10/10 by any means, but people were acting like it shot their dog, asked "Did I just do that? I did not just do that!" and thus should be shamed into oblivion. I finished it when it released and definitely had fun with it, but it’s one of those "you have to play it for 20 hours before it gets good" type of games and if you’re not in the market for the long haul, you’re not gonna like what it has to offer.
It’s still a complete experience, telling a complete story from start to finish and when you unlocked more of the magic available the combat is actually pretty fun and traversing the world can be pretty cool as well.
I've had a lot of fun with this game!
Might want to check the audio levels when you're mastering these videos, it's extremely low compared to other content (including audio i master myself)
This is looking MUCH better my ❤️
Really hoping that the Rumored Frey DLC for FFXVI is true. She is an amazing character and deserves more coverage
The only silver lining to this whole modern prevalence of games launching in unsatisfactory state is that DF’s follow up videos are interesting.
We, as gamers, often get to see how games change during the last phase of development since the general public is now part of the QA team.
Just dont buy day one releases or you will be a beta tester who has to pay fullprices.
My problem was motion sickness playing the demo and the world feeling pretty empty. Doesn’t sound like the emptiness changed much.
Definitely no, still extremely empty
Yeah these two issues were the biggest thing for me as well. Same problem with motion sickness in games like FF16, I don't understand how can so many players enjoy and praise the game at such unstable framerates, for me it's too tiring to play, and 30 fps option is too choppy on oled to be playable just the same.
Forespoken now seems playable without feeling nauseated after 20 minutes, but the problem of boring empty world remains. And I am waiting for performance fix on FF16 for STABLE 60 fps before I get into it.
@@neocodexx for FF16 i'm glad they update the game to have motion blur options,
now you can turn it off completely, for me personally the best is 1 for motion blur because it doesn't make me sick and also it hides the choppy frame rate when you turn the camera during exploration
default motion blur is 5 which is the maximum, crazy how they decide to give heavy motion blur on the game with no option to turn it off at launch day of the game
unfortunately frame rate hasn't been optimized yet, i hope they will update it too for PS5. i don't wanna wait for pc release to feel stable 60 fps, but i doubt i will get 60 fps on pc since my pc currently has mid spec
@@rexxel8867 I actually don't mind motion blur as much and in some cases if used well it can look really good. It's just the framerate. It's more of an oled issue too. As soon as you go under 60 it starts feeling choppy and tiring to play (depends on game but movement heavy like forespoken is the worst offender, even 60 is bare minimum for a game like that, FF16 is slightly more passable but I'll wait)
Around 12-minute mark our host mentions that the game feels like it's playing itself. I agree with that idea, that sometimes it feels like games play itself which truly ruins the gaming experience.
I am glad it got fixed! That locked 60 was very important!
Why? This game is already dead.
@@ataksnajperait’s not live service mate
@@ataksnajpera You can still play the game, it's not going anywhere.
@@ataksnajperamuch rather have a game get fixed rather than leave it be a crappy mess and leave a bad taste on Squeenix's fans
@@skyMcWeeds Too late! Nobody plays this shit anymore. Game is dead.
Just bought this game a couple of days ago on a sale and have yet to start playing. It's nice to see it's updated now and should be great to play.
Spell combat was awesome but with only little enemy varieties gets bored easily. Other aspects of the game really disappoints. They should have done like the dlc~Hope they continue to improve this style of combat instead of just giving up the Ip
It flopped because it sucks. Woke zoomer junk.
LP Productions was dismantled so I doubt we'll see this franchise continued but I do hope!
I wanted this game to be successful just because games and movies heavily rely on established ips or franchises. When original games fail, the less likely big developers will take a chance making a AAA original title.
The thing is, this game honestly wasn't as bad as the hate it got. But it got absolutely smashed by influencers on youtube. Smashed so hard that Luminous Productions is no more either. So we'll never see a original game like this, nor its possible sequel that was hinted. That's what happens now hwen you release an big original game in 2023 and arent "perfect".
Great update. Now we just gotta wait for the main character and story overhaul and it will be a decent game.
Lol facts
Did you actually play it
@@Pointman11111 fortunately, I did not.
@@JosueOrtiz237 Yeh, the demo was enough for me. I won't play this even if it comes to PS Plus. It's horrible.
@@JosueOrtiz237then you shouldn't be able to speak on it from what I've heard the game was pretty good but review bombed cause the main protagonist was a minority.
Have DF changed their audio mixing setup in recent videos? Every few videos or so, the volume is so low I have to crank up my stereos nearly to max to hear anything.
I couldn't wait for this beautiful game to come out for 2 years and when I tried the demo it was nothing but...
Shame because the game was pretty good
@@InfinitePCGaming It was bad
@@InfinitePCGaming it wasnt good at all. You can like it but that don't make it good, I like some shitty games or mid games ( due to either being funny or having one good core concept ) and ill never claim they are good.
Luminous Productions had a terrible habit of false advertising their games. I guarantee FF15 would've gotten a quarter of the sales if people actually realized what they were buying. Just like how everyone realized what Forspoken was, before buying.
@@bigdaddynerothe gameplay is amazing story is pretty mid I prefer forspoken combat mechanics over a lot of triple AAA titles sad the reviewers killed it the first hour it dropped really fun game
Doesn't make any sense that the most excited players get to experience the worst possible experience
As stated by luke stephens, I fully agree with him. The combat is the selling point of the game, other than that theres nothing else in the game. Its like a cake with a nice frosting to cover it up but cake itself is bad. The combat and graphics is the frosting in this case; the story and world is the cake
I must admit that I had quite a bit more fun with Forspoken's combat system compared to FFXVI. While Forspoken does take some time to get used to, it feels more comprehensive to me, like the different spells and abilites are meant to work in conjunction with each other and the different enemy types. Controlling Clive in FFXVI on the other hand feels almost like a poor man's Devil May Cry with a combo system that is not worth using, because you are not rewarded for it, and abilities that for the most part just do damage and almost nothing else. There's hardly any crowd control, no buffs or debuffs, no vulnerabilities or other interesting RPG combat mechanics. The more Eikon abilities you get, the more apparent this becomes, because basic abilities and combos are even less important. It's basically just fill the stagger, do damage, repeat.
I was planning to buy this but after watching DF's 2nd review I'll wait for it to go on sale $20-$30 max
This looks so much better now 😊
I honestly don’t think Forspoken is that bad of a game. Certainly not game of the year material, but not as bad as people make it out to be.
They optimized it??? AND significantly improved the graphics and resolution on top ?!?!?! Wow my faith in humanity got a tiny bit restored now... I really did expect them to leave it to just die
I took a chance on this game and ended up loving it. Glad DF is highlighting these improvements. I used DF's recommended settings of 40fps RT mode, and since I started on version 1.2 my experience was overall positive.
i preffer 40fps quality mode, and yes i loved this game.
I dont think it’s necessarily a terrible game it definitely got blown out of proportion. That being said for $70 it was a let down
@@germansherman7707 Yanno I never really gave it a proper try. I think I will, thanks!
@@banuner_ Yeah I think its reasonable to say it was priced wrong. I think I got mine for 40. Its funny how frame of mind going into a game can totally change how it feels. If I went into Forspoken paying 70 bucks thinking it was going to be a AAAA experience, yeah it's not that game.
But because I heard it was mixed results and I just went in looking for a simple and fun experience, I ended up finding that. The hardest part now honestly is just being at peace that we'll never see a sequel.
@@AJBats price tags really set expectations. If you sell your game for $70 its going to be judged against other similarly priced games. Had Forspoken launched at $40 or maybe even $50 i think its reception would have been waaaay better.
In the UK it is £9.99 on amazon atm, just purchased it.
Why is the audio mix in the video so low?
Please Oliver, do something for the volume, I have to get over 150% of my volume just to hear you. Don't let John, Richard, Alex or Audi silence your voice, SPEAK UP !
I hope they don't drop the luminous engine because I think that there is still a lot of potential and positives to this engine. A competent studio with a good direction could use this engine to its full potential. Its unfortunate that the game ended up this way. I will probs play this in the future once the game has both the full game and dlc in a bundle and the price drops further. Thank you for the update Oliver!
this engine is old as shit. just no
No it’s a clusterfuck, how this game drops to 1080p on ps5 is a disgrace, square Enix and a lot of Japanese devs are just bad at performant game engines
@@machinefannatic99 only game engine from Japan worth a damn is Capcoms RE engine
@@RidinSpinners36 yeah that’s the only good and performant one I can think of, the rest are shit.. elden ring engine is crap, luminous is crap, literally 99 percent of Japanese games have horrible performance and graphics. It’s sad because Japanese games have good stories and gameplay
I don't really think it matters which engien they move forward with. Luminous engine has features that would be great to have in the FFXVI engine and vise versa, but there doesn't seem to be anything fundamenyally in either engine that would prevent developers from adding the features to either. However since FFXVI engine has a lot of the more expensive to develop features I think the cheaper option is just to port over functionality from Luminous engine.
Forspoken squares c team
FF16 Squares B team
FF7 remake Squares A team
If they can fix the framerate of this game than my hopes are back up that it can be done with FF16!
They will fix the framrate on FF16 , just give them the time.
square enix they are very good on that.
the problem is i hope the dlc will have good side quest 😅
Honestly I don't think there is anything confusing about them releasing 2 games with such different feeling gameplay in the span of a few months. CBU3 had a plan and goals on how they wanted their combat to play. They hired/recruited the people to execute that plan. Luminous has always been pretty aimless in comparison. It's a distant memory now but never forget the FF15 demo had basically a completely different combat system than the full game, and they were only a year from release at that point. It used all the same animations and such but the context of it all was completely different. You had a single core combo and you slotted in animations for each action (opening strike, main string, finisher, etc.)
Point being, Yoshi-P and the team knew exactly what they wanted FF16 combat to be on day one. Luminous on the other hand seems to just fly by the seat of their pants and what they land on is what they land on. So you end up with something that feels unbalanced and less polished where as FF16 executes its combat design goals pretty much flawlessly.
sounds like a management/trust problem TBH. I don't think we need to tell the entire development story of FF Versus XIII -> XV again, so I'll skip that.
But for Forspoken, it sounds like they did start doing that, and then plans shifted. They hired and marketed Whetta and Henning and by release we hear from both that they more or less had their script thrown out. We see an ambitious trailer with next gen graphics and then hear of an 8 month delay and a release that falls short of those expectations. Despite the fact that they could improve this much in only 6 months. They make a really great feeling traversal system and proceed to have nothing in the world interact with that outside of 00's style race quests. They have this interesting world with 4 interesting Monarchs and the game is so rushed that the 3rd queen isn't even a boss battle and the 4th queen was a plot twist rather than a potential strong emotional beat to clash over.
It sounds like the issue came down to budgets. FF15 was a mess on release but they had 2 years to work on it afterwards and improved on nearly every aspect (as well as making some really damn good character DLC). Forspokken as a name was never going to get that sort of trust and they sure weren't going to delay it to a point where it got in the way of FF16, let alone FF7R 2 in the winter. It's clear at some point it was desinated as being sent out to die, doing the bare minimum to recoup whatever huge dev budget it accrues and satisfy contracts (remember, Sony and AMD had deals with this game).
It really looks like forspoken and ff16 are based off the same technology on how they run and look especially for the particle effects
you're not correct, but also not entirely wrong. Forespoken's Luminous engine (which was FF15's engine) is a direct descendant of a previously used engine called "Crystal Tools", used for FF13 and FF14 version 1.0.
FF16 on the other hand, uses a heavily modded version of the current FF14 engine (From 2.0 onwards) which was basically made after Crystal Tools
So the technology from these two games came from the same source, but ended up with very different state/outcome
And annnnd different teams with different engine experience.
"Why this square game good?" and
"Why this square game bad?"
Are the most immature questions asked by the internet regarding games released by the same companies.
He even goes on to compare it to ff16 when ff would clearly receive more attention from Square proper than a new IP😂
edit: imo of course of course
@@MikaMausArt Not saying that that's what happened here, but to further add to your comment, people also underestimate how much technology can be shared between engines even when the foundation is not the same.
Look at KH3, it's on Unreal 4, but I'd still say their VFX are consistent with other SE AAA games even though it's an other engine.
It's entirely possible they has an internal VFX framework that they update and port to use on different engines.
Same thing can happen with so many systems in different games. It's not free. You need to put engineer's time on it, but it's entirely possible.
@@Ayoul this is what i mean
I guess I can pick it up and finish it. I haven't finished it yet so, it'll be nice to see the visual updates while I work toward the end of the game.
soon as this thing's 20$, people will be saying they always liked it. watch.
No lmao. The dialogue is terrible.
I hope it comes to gamepass.
It'll gain a cult following 15-20 years from now and people will beg for a sequel.
-14.9dB content loudness... going the opposite direction here DF! Please fix, have to crank the speakers almost up to max to hear anything at all.
A Delayed Game Is Eventually Good, But a Bad Game Is Bad Forever - Shigeru Miyamoto
And a woke game is bad from conception.
This is Honest Objective Opinion. Forspoken now is Amazing Game that we can draw parallel with Secret Of Evermore on SNS when other games were Legend of Mana , Chrono Trigger ect. Many skipped Secret Of Evermore back in then but later it become revelation and same is with Forspoken, it's Large World with Story that is explaining whole in game world and all Action that is happening and especially after this Update. Who don't know what is Secret Of Evermore go and see and remember that during it's life on SNS it was rated as bad or average but for me it was something that I was able to relate especially because I was watching Movies without synchronization, I had and still have the freedom to hear the voices of actors
Makes me sad that this title didn't make it 😞
Thanks for the update Oliver 😊
I played this game on max settings +raytracing at 4k dlss quality with my 4070 super at 30fps with lossless scaling frame generation 2.1 30fps to 60. plus forced 16x anisotropic filtering through nvidia control panel, and it looks absolute STUNNING! unbelievably beautiful and smooth experience. yes, a slight input lag, but I played with a controller and it felt fine. looked 1000 times better than quality mode on ps5
Great analysis, particularly good attention to detail.
Oliver is a great analyst and a wonderful addition to the team!
How y’all watching this early?
@@Tholipatreon
for everyone wondering- performance mode is still blurry, especially with the foliage which falls apart and is distractingly blurry, noisy, and weird looking although not as bad as before, and it still drops some frames in the open world and combat. the other two main modes fix the issue for the gross looking foliage but looks significantly choppy with quite a lot of input delay. though, the performance mode is finally (in my opinion) playable. although not preferable nor great, and 100% would rather play in 40hz quality.
“Better visuals, higher performance, still a bad game”, would have been a better title
Thank you for using one of my fav tracks from FF16 in the background!
This game has better combat and a more satisfying open world compared to FFXVI. *puts on flame suit*
To elaborate: In some ways Forspoken almost feels like a spiritual successor to Nier Automata with it's much more responsive combat and fast traversal. Or heck, even something like Just Cause. I have a hard time going back from that at least. FF16 was just super slow in comparison and a lot of enemies felt like straight up HP sponges.
Sad to see that the game was rushed out and inevitably failed. Project Athia looked very interesting
Dude, how did they mess it up so badly at first. What are they, dumb?
Glad to see channels updating their opinions on Forspoken. People saw 10-15 sec clips and decided to judged the entire dang game when it came out
Not really. The biggest problem was the overall cringe main character. This game has still some major flaws which they cant fix. The only interesting part is the traversal & the magic combat imo.
There was a demo. We played it and it was awful.
So fixing some visual is one thing, but this game need a story rewriting to fix the game, but that will never happen
And a new main character.
I always believed Forspoken was a test platform for ff16 devs to play and learn with, then use the skills learnt on ff16 (if that makes sense)
Picked it up on the Summer Steam sale. It dropped from around $100 CDN to like $40 so despite it going in the backlog, I felt the price was worth it. Might get to it sometime this fall / winter (After Spiderman 2 on PS5)
Enjoying the game on PC with Xbox controls, gen 4 SSD and RTX graphics.
A well-made video, and I'm glad you made it. I do have the usual complaint about volume level. Digital Foundry is always too quiet, but your voice-overs are exceptionally quiet, Oliver. I know some people might prefer the ASMR-like sound, but I think you should take a day and study some videos about how to narrate; IMO, you need to vocalize more authoritatively and learn to project your voice. Look up "stage voice"; that's the voice you want to use while recording. It would make your videos a lot more enjoyable, I think.
He just has a deeper voice than usual. Sounds great on proper listening hardware to me.
I think I talk for a lot of gamers when I say.
We couldn’t care less about forspoken and whatever is going on with the title
Thoroughly enjoyed this. 60+ hours and the dlc. Just snagged a new 4 tb ssd and will be reinstalling it. The updates were welcome.
tim allen confused sounds
I feel a more apt title would be:
"Forspoken Revisited on PS5: Better Visuals, Higher Performance... But What's the Point?"