I really like you pointing out the, rather overlooked, fact that all of these cities (like most in central and southern Greece) were and are really close to each other. Today, Orchomenos is a 35-40 minutes drive from Thebes, while Plataia is about 20! Makes sense why relations between city states could be so intense, as well as why spheres of influence were so important and at times so contested in the ancient greek world.
That point of Athenians setting plays in Thebes kind of reminds me of how Shakespeare set a lot of his plays in Italy. Both for the political distance aspect and the sense of historical prestige and mystique.
Why is Thespia a Boeotian city state not discussed? More than twice as many Thespians died with the surrounded Spartans at Thermopolis as Spartans. Thespians contributed to major Greek battles in Greek hoplite wars. Yet no historians discuss the most tragic of Greek city-states, why?
I appreciate your knowledge and thank you for the recognition. I come from the heroic Thespies and I am really sad that the sacrifices of my ancestors, especially in the battle of Thermopylae, are never mentioned. You see, Sparta sells ...
Being of Greek and Irish ancestry, I especially appreciated your remark about Oarchomenos' hosting the games in honor of the Muse and Agrioni. This festival spotlighted an actor playing the part of Dionysus: Greek God of ritual madness. With Dionysus chasing women around as being tantamount to modern St.Patrick's Day antics. This remark becomes starker in a predominantly straightforward pedological presentation. Although, it's subject to being perceived as an improper politically correct remark. However, there is no denying that it did make me laugh. Kudos on the fine work you generated on this worthwhile study. Maybe that's one of the reasons why Oliver Stone may have chosen Irish Brogues for the Macedonians in his treatment of "ALEXANDER?" Also, Pelopidas is pronounced in Greek as Filopedis. The P sound is akin to Philip.
Pelopidas is most certainly not pronounced as Filopedis. Pelopidas is the minor case of Pelops (from whom Peloponesus took name), a Bronze Age that means "dark eyed"
Damn, it is supposed to be Patron-only. I didn't realize that putting it in the playlist made it more easily accessible in this manner. It will be "officially" released a few months from now.
I have to say I feel like this video favored Orchomenos over Thebes along with other editorializing (regular drills vs innovative battle tactics). I partially agree repetitive training is strong and a necessary foundation. As you said Spartans did almost entirely that. The fluidly adaptable skills is a HUGE part of the Theban’s training. Without it Tegyra would have been at least far more bloody, no Leuctra and if by some miracle they made it that far a close defeat in Mantinea (as opposed to a Cadmean victory). The adaptability of the Thebans was able to overcome the massive difference in Spartan training regimens (from early childhood vs occasional training likely starting in the teen years). Spartans whole army was professional, while Thebans only had 300 professional soldiers. I did not like the editorializing there other than that it was mostly useful.
Yet he didn't make the leap Philip II did--that one choice made Macedon a world power. It looks easy to imitate until one tries--it's extremely hard to coordinate the phalangites. Yet Philip made it work.
Wow, ancient Greece was no picnic to live in! In the movie Troy when Odysseus tells Achilles about the up coming war with the Trojans Achilles snidly remarks, "Why, are the Greeks tired of fighting each other"? Nope!
Oedipus sons were cursed by him, when they threw him out of his city, cursed never to find peace and finally kill each other, and it came to that at the end... To share the king-title was their own idea, and their uncle´s, and was essentially the first mistake they did, in order to make the curse of their father, Oedipus, turn into a reality. The drama was, that the surely most wise Greek, who seemed to have an absolutely total firm grip over his fate, and have eased the fate of thousand others who have seeked his advise, had apparently no influence at all over his fate!!! It´s not a story of the old superstitious "your fate is anavoidable"-narrative, but of the misconception of even the wisest among us, about reality. I love your videos, but this one had a couple of important mistakes, on its mythology part...
JEESUS man!!!! whats with the BOOMING volume increase every couple mins! killing my ears man... love this channel but jesus man.. a youtube channel shouldn't cause physical pain! Im afraid of listening to others now... a shame because you have damn good info and speak concisely... sorry for the complaining... I should be so lucky to get free info online
Wait a second, he says that Thebes had no choice but to submit to Persia after Thermopylae fell. Why didn't they fight with the Spartans and Athenians when they were defending the pass?
Once Thermopylae fell, the Boiotian plain was wide open and the Thebans had no way to flee since they didn't have ships like the Athenians did. As for why they didn't help at Thermopylae, I don't know but I imagine that they were thinking first and foremost of their farms and saw victory as a long shot.
@@ThersitestheHistorian True, the Athenians were on Xerxes shit list and there would be no negotiations with them. But the Spartans weren't, but then again, they only sent 300. But then again, Athens abandoned their city, Thebes could have abandoned their city, too. In any case, Thebes reputation was scarred.
@@Itsatz0 Sparta refused to submit earth and water and violated the sacred law of envoys by throwing the Persian envoy down a well. They also had planned to send military aid to Athens during the Marathon campaign. As for the Thebans, they were a numerous people and taking in Athenian refugees was already a burden on the alliance. The Thebans would have had trouble finding a place and feeding all of the refugees would have been something of a nightmare.
Always makes me laugh when I hear Americans say St. Patrick's day... I dunno why they can't just chill out and say Paddy's day like everyone in the British Isles lol
I just finished reading Thucydides' account of the Potidaean revolt in 434 bc. It seems as though it was Perdiccas II of Macedon who was the instigator of this revolt. The Corinthians only sent troops to defend the city from the Athenians who were at war with Macedon at the time. I don't think the Corinthians did anything wrong here. The Athenians strike me as hyper-imperialist, like the neocons of antiquity. They were like the Romans but on a smaller scale. From a foreign policy perspective, I like Sparta better. I also like the Spartan women more LOL. But Sparta was built on slavery so that undermines whatever moral authority Sparta might have.....
Thersites, I’d like to know your thoughts and predictions on the Democratic primary with Biden having this rape scandal. Do you think they will stick with Biden or drop him for someone else?
It is possible that the party swaps Biden out at the convention, but they won't seriously consider that until Biden has officially secured the minimum delegate count and there is no longer a call for Bernie to reactivate his campaign.
Some of his pronunciations are maddening. It happens to people that do a lot of independent reading--the decide on a new word in the wrong way, no one corrects them until they write or speak on it much later....
![⭐ฮิตในTikTok!! ( หมูเด้ง MooDeng ) Ver. แดนซ์โจ๊ะๆ ReMix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3krsyfWUeHU/mqdefault.jpg)
This is one of my favorite channels on TH-cam. Thanks so much for your excellent research, writing and presentation!
Totally agree
Sooooooo good
I love listening to your lectures. Your dry sense of humor at times is
quite refreshing.😉
I really like you pointing out the, rather overlooked, fact that all of these cities (like most in central and southern Greece) were and are really close to each other. Today, Orchomenos is a 35-40 minutes drive from Thebes, while Plataia is about 20! Makes sense why relations between city states could be so intense, as well as why spheres of influence were so important and at times so contested in the ancient greek world.
How is it overlooked?
Awesome stuff, exactly what I was looking for.
Thank you for making such fantastic content
Another great video! Thank you for your awesome work!
Best series in youtube
excellent lecture. thank you Thersites!
Great video essay, loving your work
Thank you for the video .... this is interesting
That point of Athenians setting plays in Thebes kind of reminds me of how Shakespeare set a lot of his plays in Italy. Both for the political distance aspect and the sense of historical prestige and mystique.
love this
Awsome stuff keep em coming fam
Why is Thespia a Boeotian city state not discussed? More than twice as many Thespians died with the surrounded Spartans at Thermopolis as Spartans. Thespians contributed to major Greek battles in Greek hoplite wars. Yet no historians discuss the most tragic of Greek city-states, why?
I appreciate your knowledge and thank you for the recognition. I come from the heroic Thespies and I am really sad that the sacrifices of my ancestors, especially in the battle of Thermopylae, are never mentioned. You see, Sparta sells ...
The marathon mound is a moving place. As is the one at Thermopylae
Being of Greek and Irish ancestry, I especially appreciated your remark about Oarchomenos' hosting the games in honor of the Muse and Agrioni. This festival spotlighted an actor playing the part of Dionysus: Greek God of ritual madness. With Dionysus chasing women around as being tantamount to modern St.Patrick's Day antics. This remark becomes starker in a predominantly straightforward pedological presentation. Although, it's subject to being perceived as an improper politically correct remark. However, there is no denying that it did make me laugh. Kudos on the fine work you generated on this worthwhile study. Maybe that's one of the reasons why Oliver Stone may have chosen Irish Brogues for the Macedonians in his treatment of "ALEXANDER?"
Also, Pelopidas is pronounced in Greek as Filopedis. The P sound is akin to Philip.
Pelopidas is most certainly not pronounced as Filopedis. Pelopidas is the minor case of Pelops (from whom Peloponesus took name), a Bronze Age that means "dark eyed"
@@dinos9607 In Dorian Greek and specifically in West Dorian of Epirus the word "πελιος" means "dark". Πέλος+όψις+Ίδας.
Wait why is this video only in the playlist and not properly on your channel feed?
Damn, it is supposed to be Patron-only. I didn't realize that putting it in the playlist made it more easily accessible in this manner. It will be "officially" released a few months from now.
@@ThersitestheHistorianbig oof lmao
You should just keep the video under "private" next time... that should work
@@SylvainsRamblings Yeah.... apparently so.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
I have to say I feel like this video favored Orchomenos over Thebes along with other editorializing (regular drills vs innovative battle tactics). I partially agree repetitive training is strong and a necessary foundation. As you said Spartans did almost entirely that. The fluidly adaptable skills is a HUGE part of the Theban’s training. Without it Tegyra would have been at least far more bloody, no Leuctra and if by some miracle they made it that far a close defeat in Mantinea (as opposed to a Cadmean victory). The adaptability of the Thebans was able to overcome the massive difference in Spartan training regimens (from early childhood vs occasional training likely starting in the teen years). Spartans whole army was professional, while Thebans only had 300 professional soldiers. I did not like the editorializing there other than that it was mostly useful.
Damn, youtube just suggested me a video for the state i live in
Epaminondas was absolute badass!
Yet he didn't make the leap Philip II did--that one choice made Macedon a world power. It looks easy to imitate until one tries--it's extremely hard to coordinate the phalangites. Yet Philip made it work.
Excellent video
Excellent... viva la boi
He spared Pindar's house as a way to advertise his own sophisticated taste.
Wow, ancient Greece was no picnic to live in! In the movie Troy when Odysseus tells Achilles about the up coming war with the Trojans Achilles snidly remarks, "Why, are the Greeks tired of fighting each other"? Nope!
My like and comment
Do have a video on the Danaans? Early origins before Denyen and migration to Denmark and China aka Dian. I see articles in Indonesia As Danu.
Also the Tuatha Dé Danann and Tribe of Dan
Oedipus sons were cursed by him, when they threw him out of his city, cursed never to find peace and finally kill each other, and it came to that at the end... To share the king-title was their own idea, and their uncle´s, and was essentially the first mistake they did, in order to make the curse of their father, Oedipus, turn into a reality. The drama was, that the surely most wise Greek, who seemed to have an absolutely total firm grip over his fate, and have eased the fate of thousand others who have seeked his advise, had apparently no influence at all over his fate!!! It´s not a story of the old superstitious "your fate is anavoidable"-narrative, but of the misconception of even the wisest among us, about reality. I love your videos, but this one had a couple of important mistakes, on its mythology part...
Every Greek myth has about 12+ versions and since every single one is made up, it doesn't really matter too much
Thanks again for this channel. My family thinks I am looking at pron.
You talk about my place!!!! One of the richest cities of the ancient known world.
Oeidpus and Akehneton is a pretty solid theory.
Thank you so much for this video. It's pronounced Viotia and not Biotia. Also is Cheronia.. 👍👍👍
Didn't Kadmos come to find his sister Europa?
Shield to shield a sword is good.Most of these warriors were great poll,spear men.
Could the Minyans be refugees from the first Minoan diaspora?
Biotian. That's a song by Led Zeppelin
JEESUS man!!!! whats with the BOOMING volume increase every couple mins! killing my ears man... love this channel but jesus man.. a youtube channel shouldn't cause physical pain! Im afraid of listening to others now... a shame because you have damn good info and speak concisely... sorry for the complaining... I should be so lucky to get free info online
Yeah greece my country
Boiotia" the dancing ground of Ares" the god of war
Tenagra isn't a made up place from star trek!?
Nope, one of their writers probably knew a little bit of ancient Greek history.
@@ThersitestheHistorian Nor you, Optimate trash, wholesome.
Wait a second, he says that Thebes had no choice but to submit to Persia after Thermopylae fell. Why didn't they fight with the Spartans and Athenians when they were defending the pass?
Most likely they were scared and wanted to play neutral party like when most states submit to a powerful empire.
@@alexanderledvina8743 Yeah, but they did have a chance to stop the persians at Thermopolae and didn't.
Once Thermopylae fell, the Boiotian plain was wide open and the Thebans had no way to flee since they didn't have ships like the Athenians did. As for why they didn't help at Thermopylae, I don't know but I imagine that they were thinking first and foremost of their farms and saw victory as a long shot.
@@ThersitestheHistorian True, the Athenians were on Xerxes shit list and there would be no negotiations with them. But the Spartans weren't, but then again, they only sent 300. But then again, Athens abandoned their city, Thebes could have abandoned their city, too. In any case, Thebes reputation was scarred.
@@Itsatz0 Sparta refused to submit earth and water and violated the sacred law of envoys by throwing the Persian envoy down a well. They also had planned to send military aid to Athens during the Marathon campaign. As for the Thebans, they were a numerous people and taking in Athenian refugees was already a burden on the alliance. The Thebans would have had trouble finding a place and feeding all of the refugees would have been something of a nightmare.
Nice video but you butchered a number of the names including Boeotia (boiotia).
Always makes me laugh when I hear Americans say St. Patrick's day... I dunno why they can't just chill out and say Paddy's day like everyone in the British Isles lol
The title of this video is all Greek to me.
Where is thespies ?
Near Thermopylae
Testing
I just finished reading Thucydides' account of the Potidaean revolt in 434 bc. It seems as though it was Perdiccas II of Macedon who was the instigator of this revolt. The Corinthians only sent troops to defend the city from the Athenians who were at war with Macedon at the time. I don't think the Corinthians did anything wrong here.
The Athenians strike me as hyper-imperialist, like the neocons of antiquity. They were like the Romans but on a smaller scale. From a foreign policy perspective, I like Sparta better. I also like the Spartan women more LOL. But Sparta was built on slavery so that undermines whatever moral authority Sparta might have.....
It's pronounced Bio-TI-a
Like you’re your stuff not enough to put up with your ad frequency choice though. Nearly had a sub but hey y’all doing the work do you
Thersites, I’d like to know your thoughts and predictions on the Democratic primary with Biden having this rape scandal. Do you think they will stick with Biden or drop him for someone else?
It is possible that the party swaps Biden out at the convention, but they won't seriously consider that until Biden has officially secured the minimum delegate count and there is no longer a call for Bernie to reactivate his campaign.
Trump, Biden, Sanders---all far too old to be a good idea.
Dog you need either to get out of the well or get a better mic
Love what you're doing, can't stand the language butchery, though.
Some of his pronunciations are maddening. It happens to people that do a lot of independent reading--the decide on a new word in the wrong way, no one corrects them until they write or speak on it much later....