That was very interesting to see and I'm glad I came across this. I was actually considering buying this pipe and silencer combo and then going to a Dyno locally to me to have this testing done but now I don't have to. And I thank you for saving me that money. Now that said, I would certainly love to see what things look like with your ECU as well as the pipe combo.
Awesome work Derek! Looking forward to the release of the new SX1 Pro from Athena. It will be a top tier product. Thanks for putting this together and showing the difference between pipes, especially at different given pipe temperatures. Music to the ears for snowbikers. 🤟🏼
@@RETROVERLAND Nice product - I wonder why ktm wont sell the stock settings as dave sells - they certainly know what he is doing and can test i better than anyone can
There may be a nuisance variable in there somewhere regarding the differences in maps. The surge in power between with the green map selected in my 23’ 250 TBI is drastically different than the white map.
@@HPRaceDevelopmentyes, possibly on that bike since you mentioned early on in the video that the customer had something occurring related to the software I believe. Do you think that the map switch has more of an effect on the ignition curve compared to an actual change in the fueling characteristics from one map to another? I ask this because in previous generations, the 2018 250 XC for example, had a wire that when disconnected really delayed/softened the transition into the powerband. Good video by the way and thanks for the input.
The media has lied to people and their minds eat it up. These two maps are identical at WOT. We have seen the same on the 125's. At partial throttles there are some differences - which people then equate to the entire map. On the older bikes we can not measure a difference between wire plugged or unplugged - using a slow motion playback of a timing light vs stator wheel vs rpm.@@reineherrera8897
yeah, that is a fair assessment. I just finished a 2 hour hare scramble a couple of hours ago on the green map and as I usually ride a gear high, it is different from the white map. I’m rarely if ever at wide open throttle in these races so I don’t have an opinion there. But I agree with you stating that there is a difference at like quarter to mid throttle along the power curve.
I’m looking into getting a pipe and silencer setup on my KTM 300sx 2023. I’m on the fence between the bills setup or the fmf fatty with the blue 2.1 they look amazing but I want best for performance. If you have a suggestion lmk. Thanks
I dont think we got 4-7 except over rev region. On a 2t - big gains in over rev are easy for short rpm windows because once power falls off - it falls of fast. There is always a trade - this pipe probably wouldnt run on 87 octane pump gas in 30 degree weather without detonating or something like that where oem will
do you let the bike idle or warm up a bit before doing the dyno pulls or does pipe temperature matter? I thought that the pipe temperature helped for performance a lot.
We run the bike quite a long time before the pull is made first in a normal unloaded warm up, then in some progressively longer pulls to get the engine, radiators, both trans and rad fluids up to temp. Then we do 4-5 back to back pulls in quick succession to collect recorded data. Pipe temp sometimes helps, most often hurts power.
@@HPRaceDevelopment ok so its as controlled and up to temperature as possible. interesting how pipe temperature hurts power, I don't know much about how pipes work but I thought that if they were too cold then the gasses would just loose volume and then no gas would be shot back into the combustion chamber. interesting though so thanks.
My question is related to the map switch not making any difference. Has the power value been calibrated with the dongal that came with the bike? When I bought my 2023 300xc my local KTM dealer did not know what it was.
weve tested this bike multiple times both when new then after an update and going through by ktm national support at a race - it has always run the same map 1 and 2 at wot
I always wondered if was there much difference between a brand-new pipe and one that has a season or two on it with no "massive" dents in it. is it worth getting new pipe every year for these bikes?
Pipes can get carbon deposits that drastically alter there rpm window / and depending where the dent is, it can be bad. but some dents in the fatter sections usually dont matter much
I work at a ktm dealership in greatfalls montana as a mechanic and I am starting to hate the ktms. There is no way to adjust fuel or tune the stock ecu and I have a hard time diagnosing promplems too. Like the bikes are not reving out all the way or way to rich down low. Very frustrating. And the tpi bikes piss me off worse.. And 99 percent of the time if they don't run right the computer won't even show codes makes me want to bang my head against a wall
Derek do you think with the ECU that this bike would be compatible to new 450s in terms of power and torque? Will be cool to see the results once you get that ecu dialed!
Not even close. The 4t makes a lot more with a lot more power width. They are geared much taller so the 2t can compete in a straight line and feel quick - but it's just a falsehood of gearing.
@@HPRaceDevelopmentwhen you compare the gearing on both bikes in the owners manuals you’ll find the 450 and 300 are identical. The sprocket choice might be different but the gear ratios are the same.
The primary is different. final drive ratio aka final gear ratio is all the matters - I hadn't looked recently but you are correct with different sprockets they are geared nearly identical at the tire due to the different primary (more gear reduction on 300). In former race trim - with a 13 front - they are geared much shorter giving them a similar acceleration rate despite being down 5-7 lb ft of torque. But - the power width is less - and peak hp is less, and thusly with identical final drive gearing (as they have now) the 300 will get walked by a modern 450 any way you want to compare. A well built 300 can make competitive power but not the power width. That's the 4 stroke magic when they are afforded the extra CC's. The 500's can exceed the HP easily but not power width@@The_Snowbike_Channel
@@The_Snowbike_Channel, I own both as well and agree. My stock 2017 450 walks my 2023 300 TBI with ease and will pull 3rd gear damn near from a stop with ease. Ridable power = power under the curve which the 450 has for DAYYYYYS. The peak power of my 300 and 450 may be close but the 300 carries it for less than half the rpm range that the 450 does it seems like.
@@marcozuffada not really. They have about the same port timings, intended rpm range and target power delivery. Combined with a low power output per cc because mx bikes are all about power width at these power levels - the pipes are really geared towards good power at early rpm with powervalves down that rev well but arent geared towards high power narrow rpm window. additionally the pipe has to fit the bike and not be in the way. If it were an all out drag race engine or similar hell ya its crazy to be same
![fellow fellow - พรุ่งนี้ไม่มีใครรู้ feat. INK WARUNTORN [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QP6JyjYx_W0/mqdefault.jpg)
Excellent video! BILL's Pipes are just not beautiful, they work! Can't wait for the ECU mod. 👍👍
That was very interesting to see and I'm glad I came across this. I was actually considering buying this pipe and silencer combo and then going to a Dyno locally to me to have this testing done but now I don't have to. And I thank you for saving me that money. Now that said, I would certainly love to see what things look like with your ECU as well as the pipe combo.
Yesss omg we got a bills pipe
Do a Pro Circuit pipe and R304 next!!!
If you own one, send it in we will test it
@@HPRaceDevelopmentI do own a PC pipe on my 300SX but mines dented and I’m going to need to replace it.
send it in and we will get it fixed and blown out for about 100 olus dyno it for you@@Justabirdlover
More 300SX TBI pipe tests please. 🙏
Awesome work Derek! Looking forward to the release of the new SX1 Pro from Athena. It will be a top tier product. Thanks for putting this together and showing the difference between pipes, especially at different given pipe temperatures. Music to the ears for snowbikers. 🤟🏼
I'm waiting patiently for an ECU for my bike :)
Oh man... wha a tease. I was expecting a dyno with the ecu :) well played. Great work!!
I know you guys work a-lot with the GET product for the 300's what are your thought on the TSP ecu programmer/head and map setting product?
@@RETROVERLAND Nice product - I wonder why ktm wont sell the stock settings as dave sells - they certainly know what he is doing and can test i better than anyone can
@@HPRaceDevelopment Would that product work with your Husky 300 Stage 2 works package or would we need to go to your GET?
So do we get to see the power difference between the other brands?? 🤔
Does the Bills have same gains on the 250?
There may be a nuisance variable in there somewhere regarding the differences in maps. The surge in power between with the green map selected in my 23’ 250 TBI is drastically different than the white map.
I can assure you at wot - there is no difference on this bike.
@@HPRaceDevelopmentyes, possibly on that bike since you mentioned early on in the video that the customer had something occurring related to the software I believe. Do you think that the map switch has more of an effect on the ignition curve compared to an actual change in the fueling characteristics from one map to another? I ask this because in previous generations, the 2018 250 XC for example, had a wire that when disconnected really delayed/softened the transition into the powerband. Good video by the way and thanks for the input.
The media has lied to people and their minds eat it up. These two maps are identical at WOT. We have seen the same on the 125's. At partial throttles there are some differences - which people then equate to the entire map. On the older bikes we can not measure a difference between wire plugged or unplugged - using a slow motion playback of a timing light vs stator wheel vs rpm.@@reineherrera8897
yeah, that is a fair assessment. I just finished a 2 hour hare scramble a couple of hours ago on the green map and as I usually ride a gear high, it is different from the white map. I’m rarely if ever at wide open throttle in these races so I don’t have an opinion there. But I agree with you stating that there is a difference at like quarter to mid throttle along the power curve.
Pro Circuit next! I want to get a quiet muffler.
buy it and we will test it for you
I’m looking into getting a pipe and silencer setup on my KTM 300sx 2023. I’m on the fence between the bills setup or the fmf fatty with the blue 2.1 they look amazing but I want best for performance. If you have a suggestion lmk. Thanks
We have not dyno tested the fmf, sorry. We know the bills runs great as we have shown especially when adding our ECU the two in combo is huge
Fmf can not compete agains a Bills.. I think Bills and Procircuit are the leaders when it comes to 2 strokes
Aren't those improvements a crazy amount? You say ktm dudes are smart and they are. But isn't filling a 4 to 7 hp gap a day and night difference?
I dont think we got 4-7 except over rev region. On a 2t - big gains in over rev are easy for short rpm windows because once power falls off - it falls of fast. There is always a trade - this pipe probably wouldnt run on 87 octane pump gas in 30 degree weather without detonating or something like that where oem will
do you let the bike idle or warm up a bit before doing the dyno pulls or does pipe temperature matter? I thought that the pipe temperature helped for performance a lot.
We run the bike quite a long time before the pull is made first in a normal unloaded warm up, then in some progressively longer pulls to get the engine, radiators, both trans and rad fluids up to temp. Then we do 4-5 back to back pulls in quick succession to collect recorded data. Pipe temp sometimes helps, most often hurts power.
@@HPRaceDevelopment ok so its as controlled and up to temperature as possible. interesting how pipe temperature hurts power, I don't know much about how pipes work but I thought that if they were too cold then the gasses would just loose volume and then no gas would be shot back into the combustion chamber. interesting though so thanks.
It already has a big Kit there not gone be a different
My question is related to the map switch not making any difference. Has the power value been calibrated with the dongal that came with the bike? When I bought my 2023 300xc my local KTM dealer did not know what it was.
weve tested this bike multiple times both when new then after an update and going through by ktm national support at a race - it has always run the same map 1 and 2 at wot
Wondering what the actual peak HP and Torque #s were. Not sure if you mentioned or not.
stock best of 48 and 30 ish
bills 50 and 31 ish
I always wondered if was there much difference between a brand-new pipe and one that has a season or two on it with no "massive" dents in it. is it worth getting new pipe every year for these bikes?
Pipes can get carbon deposits that drastically alter there rpm window / and depending where the dent is, it can be bad. but some dents in the fatter sections usually dont matter much
I work at a ktm dealership in greatfalls montana as a mechanic and I am starting to hate the ktms. There is no way to adjust fuel or tune the stock ecu and I have a hard time diagnosing promplems too. Like the bikes are not reving out all the way or way to rich down low. Very frustrating. And the tpi bikes piss me off worse.. And 99 percent of the time if they don't run right the computer won't even show codes makes me want to bang my head against a wall
They are a challenge!
Derek do you think with the ECU that this bike would be compatible to new 450s in terms of power and torque? Will be cool to see the results once you get that ecu dialed!
Not even close. The 4t makes a lot more with a lot more power width. They are geared much taller so the 2t can compete in a straight line and feel quick - but it's just a falsehood of gearing.
@@HPRaceDevelopmentwhen you compare the gearing on both bikes in the owners manuals you’ll find the 450 and 300 are identical. The sprocket choice might be different but the gear ratios are the same.
The primary is different. final drive ratio aka final gear ratio is all the matters - I hadn't looked recently but you are correct with different sprockets they are geared nearly identical at the tire due to the different primary (more gear reduction on 300). In former race trim - with a 13 front - they are geared much shorter giving them a similar acceleration rate despite being down 5-7 lb ft of torque. But - the power width is less - and peak hp is less, and thusly with identical final drive gearing (as they have now) the 300 will get walked by a modern 450 any way you want to compare. A well built 300 can make competitive power but not the power width. That's the 4 stroke magic when they are afforded the extra CC's. The 500's can exceed the HP easily but not power width@@The_Snowbike_Channel
@@HPRaceDevelopmentthat makes sense, and yes I agree on a stock 450 walking over a stock 300. I own both bikes.
@@The_Snowbike_Channel, I own both as well and agree. My stock 2017 450 walks my 2023 300 TBI with ease and will pull 3rd gear damn near from a stop with ease. Ridable power = power under the curve which the 450 has for DAYYYYYS. The peak power of my 300 and 450 may be close but the 300 carries it for less than half the rpm range that the 450 does it seems like.
How does this 300 sx compare against ur fastest carbed 250 sx?
250SX way faster
@@HPRaceDevelopment even top speed
Post more
why does Kim say 57 hp stock
@@Jb-mp1in why do you care what the number is…
@@HPRaceDevelopment no I'm asking why would ktm say 57 hp stock ?
So is 48 horsepower on the wheel or off the engine?
@@wreality4712 dyno is at the wheel
it's ridicoulous that ktm have same pipe for 250(66,4 mm ø piston)and 300cc (72mm∅ piston)😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@marcozuffada not really. They have about the same port timings, intended rpm range and target power delivery. Combined with a low power output per cc because mx bikes are all about power width at these power levels - the pipes are really geared towards good power at early rpm with powervalves down that rev well but arent geared towards high power narrow rpm window. additionally the pipe has to fit the bike and not be in the way.
If it were an all out drag race engine or similar hell ya its crazy to be same
@@HPRaceDevelopment 👌👍