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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Hoshimachi Suisei feels a bit bad for not knowing English when HoloEN girls learnt so much Japanese...
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Well her mom is an English teacher so...
Suisei: I'm moving back home for a while to learn English
Mama-machi: GACHI!?
mama-machi collab stream ikz!! 🔥
Her mom is a pro translator too right
I think her mother isn't a teacher. She does speak good english though.
Gachi?
Her mom isn't a teacher, she's a professional translator.
I think it was the type where they orally translate speeches and the like.
It's going to be wild if/when she does learn English because her pronunciation is already amazing in the handful of times she's used it.
That's a huge help, especially when it comes to foreigners who maybe aren't inclined to be particularly charitable or familiar with JP accents, but yeah, grammar+vocab are still hurdles, as seen with Pikamee's (adorable) unusual English.
Can't wait for Dangai Suisei form, she will be unstoppable
@@klondikesaloon7026 pikame slowly become japanese. She barely speak English now
@@bellascythe9594 Pikamee's half-Japanese to begin with, so I can only assume it just reflects her viewership.
"amazing"
God, I love her voice.
I raise my hand in agreement.
🤝 agreed
🤝
🤚
"Maybe there's a place where smiling is a rude action"
I do know that some cultures find excessive smiling to be false or deceptive. When I was learning Russian I was taught not to smile all the time if I go visit because Russians don't smile just to indicate that they approve of the conversation, they only really smile when they feel the urge to, so many foreigners come off as superficial as a result (not just Americans).
Typically France, french are seen as rude because of that but we are usualy not comfortable being openly nice with complete strangers. But once that first contact is done French people are some of the most friendly people you'll ever meet, and it lasts for a long time.
The geographic factor plays a lot too, Paris people see strangers all the time and it's very crowded so they are very cold at first, go in the south and you'll meet the loveliest people ever.
i’ve heard this about saying thank you as well. as an american, i say “thank you” after pretty much everything (when the waiter brings me water, then brings me my appetizer, then brings me my meal, and so on), and i genuinely mean it. but i’ve heard in some other countries it’s considered rude/fake to do that and that they only say thank you once during the duration of a stay at a restaurant. i love different cultures and it’s super cool to learn about foreign etiquette, but being a midwesterner, saying “thank you” and being almost aggressively polite is stamped into my bloodstream at this point LOL
@@baizhu That's polite in the Nordics but the other way around is super weird. As in a waiter and smiling and being super attentive or a clothing store clerk who's like a heat seeking missile when you enter the store. It's like the worker is a servant or something, that sort of thing is limited to the bedroom here.
Me, as Russian, can kind a understand your take. We even have a proverb "Laughter for no reason is a sigh of foolishness" (Смех без причины - признак дурачины). But it mostly problem of generations, I feel like the most gaps in generations is in people who was born: before 1990 y., than between 1991-1999 years, and last 2000+ y. It's mostly because of historical things (the collapse of the Soviet Union, severe crises in 90s and various wars involving the Soviet Union/Russia). And newest generation kind a feeling harassment about that on them, because they feel more "freely" in speaking and smiling, but older generation can't accept the new way of thing until now and being rude, for young people can seldom respond for this.
Tip for you, if you will had a chance to communicate with Russian or Russian speakers you mostly need to know his/her age, because it can really save you from much kind of problem.
Or apologising too much may seem fake.
It goes to show why the Rust and Sports Day streams were so fun. Everyone said to hell with the language barrier and just enjoyed each other's company.
Those clips of Suisei laughing at kusogaki gura in rust were funny.
0:20 "Open the country, stop having it be closed"
“I know the reference.”
A comment I can hear 😂
Incidentally, she was imitating a character in JP's gag meme at this moment. It's an amusing reworkng of Matthew Calbraith Perry's demand to open the country. How she came to know about this is unknown, but it's a fairly well-known meme among the JPse Internet surfers.
The original is long gone, but copies still exist.
Below is the link.
th-cam.com/video/W5B2icDl28s/w-d-xo.html
※There are some exaggerations. Please view with a tolerant mind, especially if you are a patriotic american-san.
@@sunshine-mk-2 Oh! Thank you for the information! By the way, the quote in my comment is from a very popular kaigai meme from this video about the history of japan th-cam.com/video/Mh5LY4Mz15o/w-d-xo.html specifically at 4:50
I think most of my knowledge of Japanese history comes from this video lol
@@StudentOfGod KUSA
I have interacted with various kaigai-niki, and if I remember correctly, you are the fastest replyer of all time. I will take a look at this video asoonas possible.
Suisei shouldn't worry about going abroad. Japanese tourists have a great reputation everywhere.
And if you're really worried about the U.S., just carry around an impractically large camera. Then everyone will know right away that you're Japanese and not Japanese-American.
Most widely accepted passport in the world IIRC.
@@Hsereal The issue in America is that 1. A lot of Americans think every Asian is Chinese, and 2. Chinese tourists have a pretty bad reputation in the U.S. (also should keep in mind certain elements of the U.S. just hate China right now).
@@Shaehl In my experience, the "large camera" stereotype is thought of as specifically Japanese. That might just be my experience, though.
M8 here in Canada a lot of our tourists are from Britain and Japan so we used to it lol
Suisei: "I'm all 'I'm so sorry, I can't speak the global lingua franca!'"
The viewers who watched her Duolingo streams: *"Are you sure about that?"*
Being good at pronunciation is not necessarily knowing/speaking the language.
One is pronunciation, one is speaking/forming sentences
@@gokbay3057 One can still be speaking English by a technicality even if their vocabulary is limited
Any sensible person will overlook any mistakes a foreigner makes accidentally, and the helpful ones will let them know they made a mistake shortly after the mistake happened.
Even something like getting getting words mixed up, which is a common one but is not going upset anyone. Manners will be the only thing, such as letting a door close right infront of someone when walking into a place instead of holding it open if you notice someone right behind you. Even still, the moment it is realized they are not from the region many will give them a pass rather than show annoyance.
And for the other, f*** them.
There is mean people no matter in which country you are...
You just have to ignore them and move on.
For the most part, yeah, but I do get real annoyance if it's a big taboo. Some countries have "open funeral sites" set out on the sidewalk(common even in USA, where you put flowers on car accident sites that had lethalities). If someone blunders through by accident and tramples on the flowers open it can be seen as a really bad thing even if you're a foreigner. If you don't know the context it might just look like some trash or random flowers on the ground, but if you do know the context then it looks like someone's purposefully disrespecting someone who died recently.
And then there's 🇫🇷
@@Tiavals Those are memorials not funeral sites.
"Any sensible person will overlook any mistakes a foreigner makes accidentally" - especially if they're tourists with a bit of money
At least she is a lot better now compared to last year by being able to read and understand some English comments without using translator
Excuse you, Sui-chan, Commodore Perry didn't say 「開港してください」he said "Open the country. Stop having it be closed."
Suisei is underestimating herself. She has a solid grasp of the basics and can easily form correct sentences. The moments she struggles are due to her lexicon being low. She just needs to talk more with EN and learn lots of new words (or be a loon like me and read the oxford dictionary). That way she stops rephrasing and simplfying her sentences to the bare basic of what she actually means.
02:30 She read my kusozako nihongo comment & said it's kawaii ahhhh
I'm embarrassed & happy at the same time lol 😅
congrats. Plz continue to support her.
i think japan culture is very strict already that you dont need to worry about being rude or not overseas
I believe if you are a japanese person going to a western country, you wouldn't have any trouble adapting to the western culture because you got used to a much stricter social and cultural rules and the west is more loose on their end
@@dexxed674 indeed
@@dexxed674 Uh, no, this is very wrong. If you talk to anyone who has moved they'll be glad to the issues they run into adapting to a new culture. It's going to vary from culture to culture but one thing I remember hearing that is fairly commonly difficult for Japanese coming a number of Western cultures is that a lot of Western speakers are much more direct in our speaking. Japanese people typically do not like giving direct negative answers to questions. If you do this many Western cultures it becomes frustrating to people and makes you look dishonest or in-genuine.
@@Furluge thats alright tho, its called being matured and having professionalism. Unlike west, especially america.
@@fukimei478 I am not going to get into judging other cultures for how they do things, but if you come from a Western one you really have gotten the wrong lessons from your parents. Refusing to address difficult issues, lying to people, or being passive aggressive is not mature or professional behavior here.
If you find you cannot handle negative feedback or can't tell people bad news in a respectful manner and instead avoid the issue that is something you need to work on personally.
From my experience learning both English and Japanese, the problems for either are:
Japanese:
- Kanji. There are too many of them.
- Vocabulary. European languages share A LOT of words, so learning vocabulary is way easier. Learning JP means starting from 0.
- Culture. Both in vocabulary and grammar it's often way harder than just to learn the literal meaning or a conjugation. Many words and grammatical aspects are completely impossible to translate directly, because they relate to unique cultural aspects with a ton of context to them.
English:
- Pronounciation. It's very different from how other languages use the Latin alphabet, and is especially difficult for Japanese speakers since their own language only uses few unique sounds compared to almost any other.
- Orthography. English has quite likely the worst spelling of words out of any European language (it can be understood through tough thorough thought though).
Of course the cultural aspect goes both ways. For JP speakers it may be easier to learn Chinese or Korean, since they had much more cultural exchange and were all influenced by the Chinese writing system in the past.
On the upside, both JP and EN have very simple grammar. There is little hassle with grammatical genders, complicated conjugation and declension, and grammatical cases.
I do wonder how many JP members actually have even tried to learn Korean or Mandarin. I know English is a required class in Japanese school. And that there are 2 EN members who speak Korean does make it look even worse for the JP members.
If Japanese just had a single writing system rather than like three, it would definitely make learning Japanese much easier. It is one of the things that most discouraged me from attempting to learn Japanese (thought it is mostly just not having enough free time, I have been quite busy for the last 8 or so years with highschool and uni (highschool included a second foreign language and most courses were thought in that language, the uni is law school)).
Also yeah, English's rather confusing when it comes to rules and pronunciation due to being such a mixed language between Germanic and Latin (thought at least this allowed them to get rid of grammatical gender which pretty much all Latin/Romance languages and German both have).
About learning languages, in general if you know one language learning a related language tends to be easier. If you look at English fluency/proficiency in Europe Germanic countries tend to have better English than Romance ones. And English is a Germanic language mostly. Japanese is a pretty unique language as they go but Korean in somewhat related and Kanji did came from Chinese (Chinese culture really was a major influence in Japan, just like it was all over East Asia). And Indo-European Languages like English are quite different from Japanese. Finno-Ugric and Turkic languages have a pretty similar syntax/grammar and pronunciation to Japanese, so speakers of these languages would probably have better luck learning how to speak or understand Japanese (not necessarily read and write, cuz Kanji) compared to speakers of English/French/German etc. Vice versa would probably be the case for Japanese people, thought of course these languages are of little use globally unless you have a specific interest so languages like English and French (especially English) remain the best choice for learning a foreign language.
@@rankoprose I mean, the EN members in question speak Korean because they are part Korean I am pretty sure.
Thought yes, I guess the common "monolingual English speaker/American" joke could be made for Japan as well.
Thought honestly ID members are built different. Basically all are at least bilingual in Indonesian and English to a very fluent degree (and they probably speak a local language as well), most of them speak some Japanese as well and Iofi also speaks German, Korean and apparently knows Sign Language (also Sundanese, which is a local language in Indonesia).
Y'all will have an easier time to learn Malay or Indonesian language then.
@@gokbay3057 The three writing systems isn't as hard as it sounds, it only takes a week or two to learn all the hiragana+katakana even if you go pretty slow.
A place where smiling is a taboo....
Man, Sui-chan really attacking the brits today innit?
It's so heartwarming seeing people from both sides of the world making an effort to understand and communicate with one another and grow closer through it. I want to learn Japanese as well but I struggle plenty just using one language.
2:27 My parents are Ghana, and they used to tell me that a lot as a kid... I think the same is true in Africa and the Middle East, and now apparently India, which I did not know beforehand...
Well it's not like all the EN (or ID members for that matter) can speak Japanese as fluently as Mori or Bae so it's a pretty evened out situation. There's nothing to feel bad about, if you can't learn a language then all you can do is try to understand them in some other way.
Well but with Kiara, Ina, Irys, Risu, Iofi, Reine, etc... there is more ID/EN that speak japanese (enough to collab with JP) than ID/EN that don't.
While in JP, there is not many that are putting that much effort into learning EN (Subaru, Marine, Sora, Robocco and some other) when English is know to be far easier than Japanese.
I don't mean it as a bad thing, all Hologirls are hardworking, learning english isn't an obligation (and you can't learn a language when it's an obligation, it's asking too much effort, you need to want to learn it). Not to mention Vtuber is more of a Japanese thing, especially Hololive since they are idols, however I can relate how Suichan feels about not knowing english when EN put so much effort in learning JP (she's quite a hardworking competitive girl after all)
Well, there may be a lot more of JP that are learning EN but don't feel confortable trying it in live/talking about it. It's more than possible ^^
@@Vaissdestruc Even Haachama didn't feel comfortable with her English until recently. But what you are seeing is a disparity based on culture. The ones in ID and EN who were willing to join Hololive did so in part because they are weebs. So you will find those who went out of their way to learn Japanese amongst the applicants more than if they weren't joining something that was not Japanese focused. Like the majority of English streamers as a whole do not know much JP unless they are in the anime space. Who in Achievement Hunter knows Japanese, for example? So it is selective bias at work.
What is a big L for the JP girls, however, is that they all had mandatory English classes in school and that reflects badly on the Japanese school system. Sure, America has mandatory second language classes too, but they are only in High School and in some College Degrees. It isn't years upon years on the same language everyone in the country has to go through. Like you can take Latin in High School in the US. That is pretty worthless for the most part especially compared to a living language.
I heard about the Japanese English teaching and it is really badly implemented. So it isn't exactly a surprise that the only one to do well was someone who studied abroad.
But what is also stunning is that the American-boos in JP haven't picked up too much. We know that Botan is very big fan of western games, being one of the only JP people to buy an Xbox, yet that didn't develop into studying English as a way to enjoy Western stuff more, especially since there are things that do not get translated in Japanese. (The new Dead Space for example won't get a JP port due to content). Why this is the case is hard to pin down exactly, but the school system does have to take the brunt of the criticism.
@@rankoprose it's not only "badly implemented" but also forced and usually when things are forced - kids hate it.
I was also forced to learn English in school with almost the same "mandatory English classes" and I hated English and I never basically learned it.
But then I grew older - I started to use English, to read stuff like reddit and that helped me way more than "English classes".
@@rankoprose to be fair, mandatory English second language in elementary/middle/high school is the case pretty much everywhere (countries where it isn't the case are mostly in Europe) and only in a few of these countries (especially when discounting countries where English is an official state language does it actually translate into majority of the country being fluent in English.
(University of Winnipeg seems to have a nice interactive map of global English education. It says 142 countries have mandatory English education, while 41 have it as an optional elective (and English tends to be the most popular in foreign language due to being the most widespread/useful one).)
I do agree that especially in a country as developed as Japan it should be better. Just wanted to point out that such a situation is far from unique to Japan. Really, effective foreign language education is much rarer than ineffective ones.
@@gokbay3057 Indonesia and Mainland Europe do a good job. Might be due to the vastness of languages in their immediate vicinity.
Most(all?) countries don't mind if a foreigner does "minor" to "moderate" stuff wrong that are taboos, like social customs, but they'll still mind "major" things(like desecrating the dead or such, even by accident). Fortunately it's usually pretty hard to get into situations where you'll accidentally do the major stuff, especially if there are locals nearby to pre-emptively prevent you from doing it.
Still, on special occasions like celebrations or festivities it can be troublesome if the sacred stuff is in plain sight and thus within accidental reach.
Suisei does bring up interesting points about cultural customs for sure, but she really shouldn't worry about them too much. The worst that can happen is that some clown will try to scam her by making a big fuss about it and demand compensation for a non-problem if they sense she's concerned about such things.
I'd even say that Japanese have drastically less chances to do something wrong.
btw this thing about "what if I do something culturally inapropriate" is such a Japanese thing that I even saw some kind of such dialog in Japanese textbook ))
It's nice that Suisei wants to learn English, but she does not need it to gather a kaigai audience, and that audience will not ask her to do so just for their sake.
She'd be too OP if she knew English. She's intentionally giving herself a handicap for everyone else's sake.😂
Reminds me of that one time when Ollie got so upset at her fellow Indonesian and roasted them hard.
Those at the time act so entitled like a bunch of Karen. Wanting her to speak Indonesian simply because she is Indonesian.
Blasted them good.
Ollie responded by saying she responds according to the language and told her Indonesian viewers to learn English and so. Even said that everyone else are willing to learn Japanese as well as Indonesian so why can’t her Indonesian viewers do the same?
But yeah. Suisei or any other members don’t need to force themselves to learn English. On the other hand, we learn Japanese, Malay and Indonesian because we want to.
1:04 her voice suddenly change from here, i feels like hearing Ado
While her voice does change quite a bit throughout this stream, I'm almost certain there was a jumpcut in the timestamp you gave.
@@NotSomeJustinWithoutAMoustache i mean this part 1:05 exactly
0:21 "Open the country. Stop having it be closed." -Commodore Perry, probably.
it was more like 'open your country or we will shell you to smithereens' 🤣
Man I would've killed for a Japanese class in high school. Took French for one year just to get requirements out of the way but definitely would've done 2-3 years of Japanese from having more motivation to learn it and maybe the head start would've been enough to learn. Now i'm a working adult and it's hard to justify so much free time to learn.
It's a lot easier to travel when you are with someone from where you are visiting, but I find that in most places people are pretty excited to share their culture with a foreigner if you buy them a drink.
Suisei english arc coming soon
Oh no she's gonna learn what suisex and suipiss means.
0:20 that kudasai soothed my soul
Chat: "The left hand is seen as dirty."
Me with a broken right arm: "Interesting."
They also think cows are holy, so.. whatever.
Ah yes there's a place where you must not smile, especially to the point where you show your teeth. The hyenas would think you're challenging them or something if you do that, so definitely don't smile on those places.
From what I understand, all the JP speaking en members already knew how to speak before joining right? She shouldn't feel to bad about that.
If you count ID, look at Kobo and her Japanese progress... well, she's still a child so learning new language are easier...
@@topazokenni4869 She's not actually a child. She's an adult. But it just means it's never too late too learn.
@@Purpletrident I know, just a joke, bro... I know she's only 5...
@@topazokenni4869 Exaaaactly
Well if she Calli had English only collab, I'm sure her confidence will be boosted. She got good pronunciation already, and her Duolingo stream proved that she got quite a comprehension.
Just like the old advice that is still relevant to this day, I think Love is the best way to learn ANY Language. If she is still learning while considering it as a chore, I think it will be hard for her to be successful if she doesn't dedicate a good chunk of her time every day like when she's still in school. Because to be able to do something you don't like, what you need is not motivation or dedication, but Discipline. Discipline to do what you need to do even when you don't like it or even when you are really tired.
The Love here is not only about the significant other. Maybe like Subaru where she really Loves Marvel and tries her best to learn English the best she can to Enjoy the movie that she Loves. Maybe like other members who really Love some game that didn't have localization translation of that game but still try their best to learn that language just to play that game.
Love can come in many shapes or forms not always about significant other. Maybe it comes in a way like Pekora who was driven by coincidence and happenstance that she start to learn English to interact with Moona better.
The bottom line is, just like us all, she only has 24 hours in one day, and she is a very busy person. To be able to learn properly, she needs to set aside time, which she doesn't really have much vacancy to begin with already. So, she needs to either bite the bullet and just carve some Time on her busy schedule anyway, or she somehow Love something that has anything to do with English (media, person, social, etc) and learn it just like the way she checks her phone in daily basis. Learning something you like should be as easy as you checking your phone on daily basis after all.
Well, where I live you see some japanese from time to time, and they are really polite people so when they mess up we usually are like 'its ok, they are japanese", they didnt mean it in a bad way. and while they apologize like crazy we are like aww cmon its ok its ok 😳... The chinese here are also kinda like that
Damn that "kaigai niki yasachi" hit freaking hard
My trick when I travelled overseas was I had lots of friends from all over, and would drag one of them with me when I visited their home country so they could help me navigate any cultural issues. Worked out great! I imagine there are plenty of Holomems that would love to guide Suisei and maybe even a few other Holomem's around their stomping grounds.
Oh for sure. One only needs to look at the JP/EN and JP/ID Geoguessr collabs. The Mems are very happy to showcase and explain things for their Nippon workmates.
It's interesting to hear a JP talent feel like they aren't studying hard enough compared to EN, because I've heard the exact same fears from some EN talents. As for speaking the "global lingua franca", both Hololive and vTubers in general started in Japan, so from the EN/ID perspective it can often feel like Japanese is the "vTuber lingua franca".
Remember that you learn other cultures by going out and really immersing yourself in them. People are generally forgiving if you're obviously a foreigner and are more than happy you're trying to learn.
At least she cares about accidentally offending local cultures. The terrible tourists are those that acts holier than thou when in another country, or behaves as if their country owns the country they are visiting. Which happens way too often than one would imagine. Theres multiple subreddits just for bad tourists.
The place where smiling is offensive is the internet. That's what she's describing
Indian person here, adults will police you if you use your left hand for anything, including handshakes, eating food, and even offering flowers for prayer
It takes time. I mean Miko is learning Elite English from time to time
"Open, the country. Stop, having it be closed"
Being too firendly can indeed be interpreted as insencere in come cultures and depending on the situation cause unfortunate misunderstandings.
learning a language takes a LONG time. Don't give up, but also pace yourself.
I've just realised that when she mentioned that smiling might be a bad thing in some cultures, my first thought was "Yup, that's Poland" xD
Now, to clarify - it's not like you can't smile at all. But randomly smiling at someone in the street does feel awkward or even provocative. I'd never given it a thought until I got to talk to some foreign people (America and southern Europe) for whom this was indeed a culture shock.
As I am trying to learn Japanese myself, my advice to anyone trying to learn English is to find a learning method that is fun for you. If you’re not having fun, you’re not learning. Also, one learning app will only help to an extent so try to use more than one method to learn.
i cant focus on suisei talking, i'm overfocused for the game that suisei played
Cats...
Cats everywhere.
I need like a 10 minute clip of Suisei playing this game
I thought shaking hands with right hand is a common thing.
Well, pretty sure handshakes were exported to East Asia from the West (where is developed in Ancient Rome or something like that to show that you were unarmed), with bowing holding a similar place there.
Thought yeah, right hand is the general rule but most people in like Europe probably wouldn't mind if you extended your left hand to shake (say you are left handed) even if they would be confused for a few seconds before taking their right hand back and extending the left. Left handshake also happens when someone's right hand is occupied. Also, apparently Boy Scouts shake hands with their left hands as they salute with their right hands.
But in some places offering your left hand to shake can be considered straight up rude. (Mostly due to thinking it is unclean as mentioned in the video)
I don't think there's too much to worry about regarding taboos for most countries, at least western. I can't think of everyday stuff that would straight up offend anyone, especially if they're tourists. It will be pretty hard without any english knowledge though. Suisei does have a pretty good track record of being able to learn the pronounciation though, so there's hope!
It is important to check for thing to do and not do before traveling somewhere else.
But even if you mess up, people will be more patient with you as you are a foreigner.
You can't know everything.
Yeah this, Doing some research before going somewhere is very important and even if you are mostly looking for places to visit/cuisine to try important cultural differences will probably still come up.
And yeah, most people are much more tolerant of foreigners/tourists when it comes to making such mistakes (similarly, people will tend to be understanding of someone clearly trying to learn a language make some mistakes).
Dunno about other places, but in the US I think the worst thing Suisei could do is say 逃げろ in public. Otherwise, she probably wouldn't be able to draw negative attention to herself with a single action, lol
I'm positive Suisei could master english to the same level Kiara has. I think what would really help is an english teacher who can teach her pronunciations and grammar rules through song. Using something familiar to suisei like singing I believe it'd be a powerful tool and she'd improve very quickly
Its fascinating how Japan is still actively feeling the after effects of the sakoku over 150 years after it was lifted.
I don't think sakoku is to be blamed for the language for real, though. What makes it harder is more that modern Japanese is mainly a mix of indigenous Japanese and Classical Chinese, which is forced to follow native Japanese syllabary.
Japanese also does still have sakoku era loanwords from Dutch and Portuguese. With more open borders it might have more of them, but I don't think that would help too much. They would still speak some kind of Japanese.
If they did a written language reform during the sakoku era, the result would be something like written Korean is today. I don't think they would have switched to a Latin alphabet no matter how much they traded with the countries that used it, since they already had their own and were largely literate in it. If they switched later, after Meiji Restoration among other modernization efforts, it could very well be easier for the Japanese to learn languages using it, though.
What Xivann said, Sakoku mostly limited loan words but the uniqueness/difference of Japanese language isn't really because of it. It is because Japanese is damn near a language isolate, with Ryukyuan being just about it's only relative. Some theories about relation to Korean or Austronesian (SEAsian like Malay, Indonesian and Tagalog) and the now mostly discredited Altaic exist.
Like Basque didn't have anything like Sakoku but their language is still very different from any other language.
that "ore ga baka" at 1:02 it's so good.
I think smiling is pretty universal in all cultures in its meaning in when it is appropriate and when not.
From what I've heard it seems Japan has a lot more cultural taboos than the west, at least in europe I don't think she'd have any issues, although I'm not too familiar with eastern european cultures so I can't really speak for them.
That's not true, there are many words you cant say in the west, especially America. There is a word that if you say it, the other guy is justified to beat you into pulp. Its a savage country.
In Eastern Europe, smiling too much is considered to mean that you are mentally deficient, drunk, or up to no good. Specifically in Slavic culture.
She wouldn't have a problem in Spain as long she doesn't start speaking about politics
@@TasukuMuncha Then she's screwed. Suisei can't stop herself from talking about Spanish politics :P.
@@NotASummoner Lmao imagine xDD
I don't think they would take her that seriously tho
lmao it feels like the plot she is describing is an old movie XD
immediately thought of history of japan XD
japanese def seems hard to learn but for starting out that applies to all languages. she do her best with english
Seems everyone in Holo struggles with feelings of inadequacy in one way or another. Even practically daisenpai Suisei.
"Maybe there's a place where smiling is a rude action."
Tell that to Mother Russia.
1:34 "I don't think there is, but maybe there's a place where smiling is rude!"
Poland: Ummm... yeah, there sure isn't, that would be crazy lmao!
When Commodore Perry told the shogun to open the country, stop having it be closed, he knew one day that Suisei would learn english eventually
In fairness to Suisei, English is kinda bonkers as a language too and she need only look towards the fact that thong is completely different if you're Australian or American or British.
So I'm aware of the Australian and American definitions, but what does "thong" mean in the UK?
@@jedimasterpickle3 It's the same as the American meaning, at least as far as I'm aware. That's how I've always used it lol
@@HellBent_ Oh I thought the UK might've been an either/or case with the meaning highly dependent on the context of the convo
Suiglish arc?
come to spain, as long as you learn "Hola" everyone will invite you to eat for free
as soon as we get an accurate live translation program none of that will matter anymore, looking forward to it
Unfortunately given how machine translation works that day will not be seen by anyone alive today
@@samebd8150 I would be very surprised if we did not have it in 50 years at the latest and it is definitely possible way before then
@@aurious5821 That would really depend on how long it takes to make sentient AI. Currently machine translation is at 90% accuracy, the other 10% it can't get being nuance. It has a hard time with this due to MTL being mostly a worder matcher and unable to translate based on meaning. To have 100% accuracy the machine would have to think like a human and learn (correct information) as well since languages are constantly changing.
@@samebd8150 You have no idea what you’re talking about.
@@what.the..6990 Why's that
Not to try to make sense of someone’s mind, but I think she felt more apologetic because her mom is prolific at English and work as a translator. Things are set up for her to at least learn English to be able to do surface level communication. But she didn’t
'Maybe there's a place where smiling is rude' yeah its called new york, and it extends to being too happy or pleasent too. It isn't a 'good morning' until bare minimum I've cursed out 10 different things, been insulted at least 5 times, and thought through the consequences of a murder or suicide twice over. I remember the day they opened a Tim Hourtons near me, shit freaked me out. That and Chick-fil-A. They're too nice, the creepy fucks.
Learning eng is easy..nowdays you can learn it easy through youtube,tik tok..compared to the old days when you learned it from school
Bruh I lost focus on what she said halfway through because I was too immerse in her puzzle game like how the f does she solve them that quickly
Well...this is the same girl who engages chat while playing Tetris 99 without breaking focus (much if at all). :P
0:21
Open. The country.
Stop. Having it be closed.
It's kind of a shame because as much as she laments not being able to know English, she clearly does not have the passion to go all the way with actually learning it considering her mother is English-fluent; she could've made the best of that fact and learned from her but she clearly didn't, especially with so much else taking up her time now. But that's okay and normal for most people who only wish they knew how to do something but can't be bothered going through the effort to learn in their current circumstances when it's non-essential. Such as myself--I always wish I knew Tagalog to better understand and communicate with my relatives better, but do I want to go through the trouble of learning that now when I don't really need to? Hell no--I got other priorities taking up my time now.
0:22 lmao didnt expect there to be an actual mathew perry png availabe
Many students, even those who are not good at history, know Perry. To be frank, he is better known in Japan than Abraham Lincoln. He is so prominent that there is a monument to him in Yokohama.
@@sunshine-mk-2 Wow that's very interesting! in America most people wouldn't even recognize the name!
they forgot about ID group is a monster of language
Realistically though alot of them learned Japanese a long time before coming to Hololive because they're Otaku while most of the JP members didn't really have an interest in the English speaking world till it was beneficial for dealing with coworkers and fans outside off the home team exceptions being like shuba who's an American comic nerd and still doesn't speak it fluently cause dubs and translations or botan being a shooter nerd when Japan's historical never done shooters as a genre till live streaming became viable and now it's got a big cult scene and they're making stuff like the new gundam out there
To add an exception to your list, how about Korone, who loves American cartoons?
Or Lui who had english for works level
Yes, but Japan has mandatory English classes while America doesn't have mandatory Japanese classes. I do agree that the selection bias for applicants for Hololive would make weebs and especially hardcore weebs more likely to apply.
Haachama is another exception where she lived in Australia for over a year.
Pretty sure she down plays her English skills as well.
@@kaigaikarano I think the point is that the talents are not very EN fluent despite such interests. Lui actually has competent English.
0:20
"Open the country
Stop having it be closed"
-said the United States
It's not necessarily her fault not being able to learn English. As far as I know, the Japanese education system sucks at teaching English
2:27 Joke's on you I wipe with my right hand.
There are parts of zoos where you can inconvenience the staff by smiling too much, because a lot of animals don't like it.
PAY FOR YOUR WAR REPARATIONS!!
As a current student of the language, I honestly find casual Japanese more difficult than formal. Either or, learning the language really made me hate the English language, strangely enough. Still, it’s a very difficult language, but I’m thoroughly enjoying learning it as a kaigainiki.
korekara mo ganbatte kudasai.
@@sunshine-mk-2 Ha-i, gambarimasu! Shinsetsuna kotoba o arigatou, Taiyōga-san!
I guess that's because formal language is more... formalized )) I mean there more rules and limitations, which are more or less clear, while in informal/colloqiual speech it's far from being such. I mean they give you an overall idea without diving into nuances like omitiing particles, colloqial modification of words, aizuchi etc.
"In India it's rude to do a handshake with your left hand"
Pretty sure that's the case for every culture where handshakes are a thing, the actual reasons might vary tho
I don't think I have ever seen any Japanese mannerisms that have been considered rude by Western standards, and if anything, the culture is seen as being extremely polite, almost to a fault, so she's fine in that regard. Ironically it's Americans here that garnished a bad reputation, which is where the term "Ugly Americans" originated from, as during our post WW2 economic boom spurred international travel, we were very rude. These days you don't hear that term that often, because frankly, aint no one young can afford shit anymore, lol.
American tourists are stereotyped as loud and annoying, yes.
Vs Japanese/East Asian in general tourists, who are famous about moving in groups and taking lots of pictures, but definitely not rude.
There are some examples, like making noises while someone is talking to you. In Japan it's a way to show the other person that you're listening, but it can be considered rude in many western countries.
Actually, it's not India only. I think it's a teaching from Islam religion.
Can't really blame them, and she shouldn't feel apologetic for it. Even as of now the Japanese education taught them katakana as their first means to recognize english. This is why for common Japanese folks they would need to spend more effort into picking up english with its proper pronounciation, instead of the katakana pronounciation of english they got used to. Japanese whom were able to speak fluent english, most of them had to spend a couple of years in english-speaking countries(such as Canada, America, UK) before they could speak native english.
Ah I remember Japanese history from "The history of Japan, I guess..."
"Knock, knock. It's the United States. With huge boats, with guns. Gun boats".
"Open the country, stop having it be closed", said the United States.
Meanwhile anya :
🤨
2:15 there are bunch of things like this which are considered rude while using left hand here in India like
Giving/receiving money with your left hand
Giving/receiving gifts/offerings with left hand
Eating with your left hand
Writing with your left hand (no one follows this anymore)
Worshiping with your left hand
But people don't mind most of the time cause they know foreigners are not accustomed to these traditions.
Wait what how do Indians shake hands then? doesnt it always involve both the left and the right hand 1 for each person involved in the handshake?
Id feel more nervous going to jp than anywhere else except for maybe China, respect is such a huge part of their culture. In America, you could say just about anything as long as isn't directly instigating someone and hardly a person would blink at you
I mean shes not wrong however for smiling towards someone kinda makes them fee uneasy
BUT staring at them for a while does insinuate a fight lol
In a way, dissimilarity can help language acquisition.
Consider this. Me, English native speaker.
When I learn Dutch, it's similar enough yet also different, such that word orders (especially describing actions) and negation is a whole mess. Some is the same as English, others are completely reversed.
When I learn Eastern Slavic, it's a whole new set of rules. Negations aren't ever a problem for me there. The litany of cases and conjugations, on the other hand - let's just say there's an entire family of jokes in that region about how native speakers struggle to remember the case form for multiples ending with the number five or larger.
Every language is just a literal alphabet soup in one way or another. The only difference between a native speaker and a non native speaker, is the consistent patterns in how one butchers the language.
I'd say that's pretty much never the case though. There are easier languages to learn in general but they're pretty much never easier to learn than a similar language to your own. You can see military translation training times and you'll see that the easiest languages for an English speaker to learn are closely related to English.
Well, not all languages are alphabet soups.
Some are abjads or abigudas or syllabaries or logographies.
(This was a lame and failed attempt at a joke about how not all writing systems are alphabets, even if alphabet is kind of used to just mean "script" very often)
Yessss. Japanese is so hard. It's almost like the Japanese made it impossible to learn for people overseas with how many exceptions and complicated conjugations exist.
Here’s an obvious one:
In western countries or anywhere that’s not South Korea or Japan if I am not mistaken, slurping noodles is very rude.
But it is okay to slurp them in South Korea and Japan as that shows you really love the noodles. The louder, the more delicious they are.
English: I
Japanese: watashi, boku, ore, watakushi, ware, wagahai, yo, uchi, atashi, washi
But tbf English is difficult as well. Like why aren't we spelling rendezvous as randevoo, or thought as thot. I know rendezvous is a French word, but what was the point of copying the spelling exactly?
Edit: wrote "randezvous" instead of "rendezvous"
in 2:12 i think she read "Indo" not "India", because that is our culture here in Indonesia, i'm sorry if i am wrong.
India is called "インド (Indo)" in Japan
smiling is rude in any north east coast city in america
Her what???
personally im never offended if person dont know something that is common in my country but is not used in other countries..and i basically let them do whatever unless it might cause harm to others or themselves...a lot of people might think "ok...thats weird" but thats about it (at least where im from)
Four-fingered hand gestures are a no-no in Japan, right?