SPINE-ING OF SHAFTS: Is it worth it? | The Golf Paradigm
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- What is 'Spining' a shaft and will it help your ball striking?
When steel shafts are made the manufacturer takes a sheet of steel and rolls it to form the long tube or cylinder of the shaft. Where the two end pieces come together, they have to be welded. This creates a weak point in the shaft regardless of what direction it faces. If anyone tells you they can improve your ball striking by spining your shaft, ask them which direction will be improved then follow that up by asking them 'Which direction will be sacrificed?' Then wait to see the look on their face.
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The Golf Paradigm is a theory that encompasses a Whole-In-One approach to improvement. It begins with the overall paradigm; i.e. the game of golf. Followed by two parts that are always to remain in balance; i.e. the golf yin/yang - ‘improving’ and ‘enjoyment’. Helping to maintain that balance are the 5 elements of the game; the swing, club fitting, health/fitness, mental, and integration. Knowing which area to focus on and how the other areas supplement that helps to form the golfers ‘recipe’ for improvement. As the golfer improves their recipe, or what is focused on, changes and this is what allows them to reach levels of play they never thought possible. It’s not magical, but it’s close.
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I know one thing for sure. I bought a Taylormade driver years ago Rbg or something like that. I tried a demo driver before hand and hit it well. So, I bought the same club, NEW off the rack. I took it to the range and couldn't control the slice. I told the assistant Pro who does club repair, etc. He said the shaft wasn't properly lined up. I left it with him and picked it up a few days later, went to the driving range and it hit perfectly. I didn't notice any diference in the height or lower trajectory of the balls. Since then I have spined aligned all of my woods. Thanks for the article, I have never heard of the pros and cons of aligning the shafts.
Very informative thanks. I have been so into the idea of getting my shafts spined but I hear so many different views on the subject.
Thanks. always good to have the facts for and against something.
Well for me, who struggles with left and right control but not ball flight, I think assembling a club with the spine at 12 or 6 would benefit my game, even if it doesn't benefit my striking. Great video, thanks for the content!
My Opinion: All my clubs have the spine identified. I keep all of them consistent in this regard. I set every club to 9:00. This gives me consistent "unloading" of the club head through the hit. It also gives me consistent "club droop" (shown :40 ) which is a huge benefit when it comes to striking the sweet spot consistently. As far as draws and fades go, I have no struggles (but I do play blades not sole weighted or cavity backed irons). As far as height trajectory goes, I go high, I go low, and I punch with no problems. So, I'm a big believer in identifying the spine of each club (except putter) so that I know exactly what the flexing properties are with no guessing games. It's been a big help to my game. (Golfing almost 30 years - single digit)
I have had the same results and so does everyone that does it. Not sure why this guy has had bad results. All the pros do it for a reason and they all continue to do it. When I play a lot i got down to scratch. It makes a huge difference. I couldn't play scratch golf without aligning the shafts. I know that for a fact. All 5 sets I have done made a huge difference.
The majority of golfers don't have shafts spined and it doesn't prevent them hitting a particular shot......it's all in your head.
@@petermartinaitis8166 True, those golfers who have not had their spines identified can and do hit particular shots from time to time. However, golf is a game of repeatability. Identifying the spines of your clubs is a great start to develop consistency and a clear advantage to all golfers. That's what's in my head.
@@chuckyz2 we have forty years and almost fifty thousand fittings of data that say otherwise. Your anecdotal experience doesn’t apply to the whole nor does it explain how a weak point of a shaft will allow you to gain in one aspect without losing in another. You can’t get around the science, sorry.
@@Thegolfparadigm It's not about the weak point, dude with 40 years bla bla bla, that comment shows you have no idea what you are talking about. It about the stiff side. The spine is always stiffer. It doesn't matter what your fittings suggest. The actual relevant science is not how a bunch of golfers from all caps hit the ball. It is about shaft dynamics. If you take a shaft with a noticeable spine, weight the tip and a dd a laser, you will get predictable results as you flex and release the shaft. When the spine is in alignment with the direction it is being flexed, the laser will draw a straight line and maintain it. When in any other position, it will wobble then eventually line up with the spine. I have done this hundreds of times and the results are always the same. So zip it mr know it all. You know nothing about science. It's a proven fact. And the results are night and day for consistent ball strikers. You hackers should do some research before you embarrass yourself with ignorant comments. Not to mention, you would lose a lot of money in skins around here. lol.
thank you... I'm favoring 12&6 flow/spine ⛳
Isn’t the purpose more about consistency?
You might ‘give up’ control in one direction or the other, when setting the spine at a specific position, but if you set the spine consistently, you can work around it.
If no effort is made to deliberately set the spine in a specific direction, then your clubs will react inconsistently,. After all, the shaft still has a spine, whether you know where it is or not, so some clubs might restrict your hi/low control, while others restrict your left/right control and others again will be some kind of blended restriction, causing inconsistent draw or fade bias.
This is why some golfers ‘love their 8-iron, but can’t hit their 7-iron at all’ (sounds familiar?)
I will tale a set with consistent spine alignment over a set with random spine alignment any day, no matter what it would restrict.
Thank you for taking the time to watch the video as well as respond. To answer your question 'yes, the point is about more consistency.' but...as the video mentions in gaining consistency in one you give up consistency in another. If you work around it which are you willing to sacrifice to gain in the other and if you sacrifice one are you really gaining consistency? With all due respect, it is not why some people love their 8-iron but can't hit their 7-iron at all. That falls into the criteria of the shafts not being the correct weight or flex, most often the latter, or one being close to somewhat close of where it should be and the other being far from it. The data on this was empirical (over 30 years collected and 30,000+ fittings) and illustrated this without a doubt. No one is saying you won't hit some shots more consistent by spining your shafts but that consistency is one dimensional and at the cost of greater inconsistency in another way.
Good points made by both,.... I agree with Lars. I'll take the spine of 12 and 6, knowing that as far trajectory I can gain with shaft weight, light (high) , heavy (low).
One thing I'm painfully learning about golf , especially equipment, it's a duality aspect, a step in one direction, effects another, and usually you have to find perfection in cancelation.
I.e. I'm spined, to have greater striaght shots, but it's going low, so now I have to use a lighter shaft, ... where as if its opposite, and you hitting high, gonna need to up the shaft weight.
Golf, a engineering process that can just have u zero to hero, and hero to zero, till u find that cant miss feel. 🤣
Now the 8 or 7 issue, that's pure finding the right loft and lie setup.
Which is another engineering feat in it's own right.
Get them lie angles checked, if your smashing your 8, and no confidence in your 7, I can bet the farm, your 7i is well off specs. Get that 7i checked, and adjust it in the realm of your 8, and watch the magic happen. 😌
@@kingshark5938 I had that in my new set of irons. The 8 iron was all over the stick. Pick up the 7, all over the place. Pick up the 8 all over the stick. Pick up any other club in the set all over the place. Pick up the 8 all over the stick. Took them home, pulled the heads. Only the eight was aligned toward the target. Aligned the rest of the shafts and they became like the 8. It was a wonderful thing. And they all flew at consistent trajectories. I have done this to every set since and have had the same results. Loft and lie matters. But we have to assume those are all close from a good manufacturer. Mine were. I play standard lie so it's easy for me.
Consistency 👍
What you just said really makes me see why spineing a shaft is so important cause rather you do this are not you just said going to effect your golf game..if you spine the shaft if you need get ball up you can if you need more control left an right shots you can so what ever part of your game you need help in spine the club WILL HELP
Your explanation of shaft spines is excellent. Using that knowledge a clubmaker has the ability to "fix" a "defect" in the shaft. Building a set of irons using the identical "fix" will make them react the same. Ignoring the spine during a build will result in a less accurate set.
In which is less accurate? Because if you gain in one direction (height or direction) you’re losing in another. #physics
@@Thegolfparadigm
Very Good Question. You have to evaluate which variable is more important. Left to right is more important than up down. It's all about maximizing your accuracy.
"GIVE UP" as in the shaft won't flex more/less on the spine (say at 12pm or 6pm)? or it will flex LESS on that axis?
Get your shafts frequency matched and you won't need spining. They aren't the same thing and frequency matching will giv you a much more consistent feel and performance.
Exactly 🤜🤛
Hopefully, this is the last "back and forth" about spining. We know a shaft can flex in 360*. We also know that a shaft does not flex equally in all directions. Shafts have soft easy flex points and more resistant flex points. How do these different resistance points benefit the golfer? Identifying weak vs strong flex points, and given a choice during assembly of a club, means that the clubmaker has decisions to make. He can do nothing. He can set the "spine" (and when I say spine I mean the actual backbone or stiffest point of resistance to flexing) toward the target. He can set it away from the target. He can set it toward the ground or set it up toward the sky. Out of these five choices, which one benefits the golfer the most? I say it's toward the ground (6:00 position) to get the maximum resistance to club droop. That's all I am saying. If we disagree on where to place this spine, then fine. But in practice, this club droop alignment has done wonders for me and fellow golfers that I have made clubs for. I believe it's the most difficult thing to control or compensate for... especially since average golfers mostly play regular and lightweight shafts, which in turn tend to amplify the problem. It's a "hidden" factor that most average golfers have no idea about.
Go with dispersion. It works. I have no issue with distance control or hitting it higher or lower. The pros all do it for a reason. And nobody would sacrifice dispersion for height. I don't have that issue with any of my last five sets I have have aligned to 9 oclock. I have done before and after testing with all the sets and got the exact results with each one. It sounds like you are not aligning the spines (or what ever you choose to call it.) I do know that crappy shafts with multiple spines are trash. 1 or 2 max and you have to be able to feel which one is stronger. Or if you pure it you can find the point that the shaft will draw a straight line. It works so good it is crazy to hear someone say it doesn't. You are the first person I have heard say it. I'm scratch and the difference is night and day on 5 sets of irons and countless woods and hybrids. lol. You need a new aligner new bearings or to have your pure machine calibrated. I could not be scratch without it. 5 at best and that is with a great short game.
Sorry but in the 40+ years of data we have it proves otherwise. The point of the video is there is a weak spot in the shaft; ie a spine, and if you spine it to gain in one area you give up in another. That’s a fact and whether you can see or feel it or not doesn’t change that.
@@Thegolfparadigm The fact is everyone who does it with the spine towards target gets amazing results and loves it. Me included. That is the only science needed to make a rational decision.
If you think it works for you then keep doing it. But the data we have over four decades and 30,000 fittings proves otherwise.
@@Thegolfparadigm
Why do all the pros pure their shafts? and Apparently your data, although may
be accurate in that by aiming the spine to help dispersion, it may cause problems in other areas, such as height. Yet you fail to except the reality that everyone does it because it works great. That the negatives are far from the gains achieved. You appear to be arrogant in that you can not even see the mass approval to the point you promote and argue that people shouldn't do it. I would advise against using your company.
You’re completely missing the point. There’s a weak point in the shaft because of the spine and unless you get a spineless shaft that’s not going to change. If you gain in one area you’re going to lose in another. There’s no getting around that. Best of luck to you.
And with that said how does that work with adjustable loft head like sim driver
Thanks
Adjust how you wish. The point we were trying to make is adjusting the spine isn’t going to help as much as some say bc it is a weak point in the shaft and as you may gain in one area you give up in another. PUREing is different and depending on the quality of the shaft you have may provide some benefit but would recommend a higher quality shaft vs lesser quality then PUREing.
I would orient the spine in same position throughout set to eliminate the inevitable question in my mind that my equipment is flawed! Each club could be expected to perform similarly to the other thereby aiding in consistency from an equipment perspective! I KNOW the Indian can vary so why not make the arrow as consistent as possible! We focus on lie loft length swing weight grip size with or without wraps but neglect shaft spine orientation?! However the cost to do so is ridiculous!🙏
Very nice explanation. I'm redoing my clubs for this year, so to control right to left over height, where would you put the spine? Down the target line @ 9:00, or at the 12:00 position? BTW, they are senior flex graphite. At my level of play I don't think it will make much difference in the long run, but while I'm doing, I might as well.
Thank you for watching and your question. Apologies for the very late reply. Graphite shafts do have a seam, if they are filament wound, but not in the same way steel does; i.e. it's due to the overlapping during the rolling process as opposed to two ends being put together. Assuming the shafts are of very high quality, they don't oscillate when put into a frequency machine is but one way to tell they're not warped, it won't make a lot of difference which way you align the seam. Because as you gain in one direction you give up in another. If you don't mind giving up trajectory control to gain directional control putting all the spines at either the 12 or 6 positions.
@@Thegolfparadigm to control direction put the spine at 12 or 6?...
is it possible to determine the actual spine location, and then position it at 12 or at 6 (or 9 or 3 if preferred)?
@@myd0gr3x for spine location you can have someone you trust or that has a spine finder. You can even purchase one, fairly inexpensive at GolfWorks. To control direction we would recommend putting the spine at 12 or 6 as you mentioned. But, the point of the video was the differential you will find is likely not enough to warrant the effort.
@@Thegolfparadigm I'm reshafting a set of Cubic Balance Elkington style blades (but not stamped ELK)...
they were my longest irons back in 2000, still in very good condition...
I do wonder how to weight them, 5 gram gap, 9 iron heavy, 3 iron light?
@@myd0gr3x by 'weight them' are you referring to the shafts or the heads? Are they taper tip or parallel?
Curious as to why there are only 2 options. Seems like you want the spine away from any forces that would exert forces that you would like to control. Would seem like you would want to avoid 3, 6, 9, and 12 o'clock positions, and maybe go with the mid point of each of these. Say 1:30, 4:30, 7:30, and 10:30. What would happen at those positions?
Steven Beasley these are good points and questions. But...the point I was trying to make in the video is spine-ing of shafts is not worth the time or money because there is a weak point in the shaft and no matter which way you turn it you give up something. It’s also so subtle that the overwhelming majority of golfers wouldn’t see the difference. Save your money.
Great question. It used to be illegal to configure the club in any position (other than 9, 3, 12, or 6) that would favor a particular ball flight like draw or fade. I don't know if it's still illegal to do that with all these new rule changes, but I highly recommend identifying the spine. Makes the flexing shafts very consistent from club to club with no surprises.
So if you set the spine at 9 0r 3 and trajectory is inconsistent left and right based on your theory why not set spine 7 1 or 11 5? Wouldn’t that be the most consistent spinning alignment for a draw base or fade for the entire set?
The point is that no matter where you set the spine there will be a weak link in stability. Where you may gain in one area (traj Control or directional control) you lose in another. The loss maybe small or negligible but the overriding message is spine-ing will not give you the complete control some have lead the golfing public to believe.
@@Thegolfparadigm Ah, so if anything you want them all spined the same way. That way you know where your errors are going to be. You wouldn't want an 8 iron that misses left and right, while your 7 iron misses short or long.
@@sbeasley1120 that is an option but if your shafts are done correctly; length and frequency (stiffness) and the lie of the club head is set correctly based on the shaft the difference in spine-ing vs not will be extremely small. So small you would have a very difficult time finding a difference.
Thanks
🤜🤛
Anytime. Hope it was useful and helpful.
Head leads the handle the moment a club starts down. Club heads aren’t lagging behind no matter what the golfers release is like.
Can you let us know of a world class ball striker, or even a good one, where the club head got to the ball before the handle?
So from the manufacturer that assembled the clubs how are they doing it? Random for each club I'm sure
Completely assembly line random.
2 Year Update: I began aligning the spine with the spine (I call it the backbone of the shaft) set to 6:00 for the purpose of diminishing club droop. It works awesome. Much less mishits. I am not sure if it's even legal with all the new golf rules, but regardless, it works well at the 6:00 position. ALSO, in this video he describes the spine as the weak point. No. It's the strong point or the backbone. So therefore I do not agree about it helping fades and draws vs high or low. I think he's 180* off in his thinking. Just my opinion.
Then tell us, if that’s the backbone and stronger than the opposite side, as well as not being the same as the other three sides of the shaft, how you can gain in one direction without giving up in another?
Good question. Picture shaft as your own backbone. You can bend forward much easier than backward. When you set the backbone at 6:00 you almost eliminate club droop entirely. However, that's only half the battle. You are stuck with varying degrees of flex from 9:00 to 3:00. So, it's really the lesser of "three" evils. lol. So, let's first examine what is the number one problem, and I say it's club droop rather than different degrees of flex. Most golfers don't even know what club droop is. I noticed that tow to heel strike marks vary to a great degree, but not in the clubs where the spine is located at 6:00. Everything else is much more manageable when spined in this direction. My opinion. @@Thegolfparadigm
@@BourneAccident disagree with your spine analogy as the spine is meant for more forward flexion than it is for extension or rotation. The shaft is a cylinder that’s supposed to bend equally until there is a seam, and weld line, that changes that. Whether you describe it as a weak point or a strong point is irrelevant because it differs from the other sides it’s supposed to be equal to.
As far as varying wear marks on the bottom of the club that is another topic entirely as it gets deep into fitting and club head design as well as shaft fit. For example toe droop should be approximately 1.2-1.6 degrees depending on the design of the head and proper fitting of the shaft in both com, length, and profile. Modifying the shaft orientation isn’t going to make up for someone getting any of those wrong. This goes back to the point of the video; having a weak (or strong) point in a shaft that differs from the rest of the shaft may gain in one aspect (traj control or direction) but in doing so you will likely lose in another. However, what’s gained or lost compared to the other is almost not measurable so having it done is a waste of time and money. Both of which should be spent on a better quality shaft and/or fitter.
Okay fair enough, but I disagree even more after carefully unpacking your explanation. Club droop is definitely "less" because of the resistance that the "spine" location offers. Fact. That also proves out in practice especially if you hit from a mat. The green plastic mark on the sole of a club definitely proves the point. Also, you might want to consider that "any" manipulation of the spine will be a compromise. I am not saying that other orientations are wrong. It is my opinion that club droop is a major problem especially in higher handicap golfers that don't regularly break 80. @@Thegolfparadigm
@@BourneAccident you’re missing the point again. We said if the club head design and shaft fit are understood by someone that knows what they’re doing the toe droop will fall into where it should regardless of where you put the spine. Toe droop is not a problem when the person doing the fitting and building of the clubs knows what they’re doing. Again, The entire point of the video was that spine ing a shaft isn’t going to make a difference because you’re giving up something to try to gain something else. If that gain is even measurable. If the shaft is of poor quality some golfers may see a difference but that’s because of the poor shaft not the spine orientation. Using marks from a driving range mat isn’t the best way to determine toe droop. Knowing the physics of the heads movement through space and the shafts role and effect on that, for each individual golfer and how they differ, is important.
Hugh pile of bullshit.. over 80% of tour players PURE their shafts, along with the two greatest of all time Jack n Tiger.
You sure about that or did a friend of a friend tell you?
@@Thegolfparadigm 100% positive. Worked on the vans for awhile.
@@MrQuesoblanco so please identify how spine-ing is so beneficial if there is a weak point in the shaft that can’t be eliminated? As stated in the video, if you gain in one area you lose in another. We have the data from four decades, both on the PGA Tour and others that prove otherwise. This from the engineers and technicians.