I think the FLO/Spine debate in golf club building comes from a placebo affect. Most golfers like to know that everything they do is of a benefit to their game. It's like in Days of Thunder when Cole's tyres are a "Matched set and staggered special". Just the belief that something is better can bring on better results. I grew up in the Greg Norman Junior Golf Foundation and was coached by Charlie Earp himself. I was lucky enough to do a work experience fortnight with him in 1999 (1 week school time and 1 week in my holidays) and learnt a wealth of knowledge from him. He told me a story of when Greg would get a new set of irons and he wanted to "set them up" for tournament play. Greg would go to the range and hit 10's of shots with each club looking for the one that he felt was more consistent and felt the best. He would then remove the grip of the club he liked best and see where the weld line was. After finding that out he then removed all the other shafts and set the weld line in the same position. Charlie couldn't say if it made any difference or not as each set of irons had the shaft weld line set at a different position but when standing over a 4 iron into a hard Par 3 knowing you did what you could to have a perfect golf club, it made all the difference in the world.
It’s absolutely a placebo. I’m still yet to see any scientific results about the benefits. Plenty of people believe, but I would like to see facts, not just stories. Golf is massively a head game, and if it helps your head, great.
I flo'd an old Mizuno driver years ago. I dont know why, but I instantly found it to be more consistent. Since then I have flo'd all my clubs new and old. I think the one thing for me is that when you use a spine finder and you feel the difference in the stiffness as you turn the club, surely if the spine is in all these different spots throughout the bag, then it has to affect the flex on each club. Whist it might not make a huge difference to us Ams, in my mind its just one less variable. Again, just in my mind. These videos are always interesting about flowing and spining.
So if it effects the flex, how do you know whether or not each shaft is matched to flex? If you flo them all, does the flex then automatically correlate to each shaft? How do you then determine the flex of each shaft? I think your best bet is to always trust the flex from the manufacturer, rather than trying to match a flex with little to no tooling. Like I mentioned, maybe matching a cpm could work, but simply finding a spine or flo will not match flex in a set. You may have simply found the strongest flex of each shaft, which is totally different to matching a set.
@@SydneyGolfTech well you raise one important word there mate, trust!! It would be interesting to put a long iron shaft in a cpm machine and test it at different orientations. That would end a lot of speculation. This topic never fails to raise interesting discussions. Thanks for your reply. Makes perfect sense.
@@dcloder and then there is a problem with cpm machines. They only ever measure butt stiffness, not tip or mid stiffness. There’s way too much manipulation of information on the internet to allow people to come up with some crazy ideas. The single biggest effect on flex is weight.
Big thanks for taking the time to do this test. I don’t think the flow is a factor for most players, not even most pros. However, spine alignment definitely has an impact on the flex pattern.
top video into spine alignment and flo, Brilliant insight, it seems that spine and flo are very popular at the moment a couple of members at my club have been talking up the benefits of it yet their club striking is no different. Your video has shown me enough not to rate it as important as some golfers think. Keep them coming
@@Samson.Boedefeld not what I said but it could be the case. If it was the case, surely then the CPM would change. If the CPM changes, which CPM number is advertised by the manufacturer. The point that I try and make in this video is that there are far too many variables and it is a waste of time to go through these processes. It’s impossible to have all variables lined up. Maybe I should do a more comprehensive video for those that actually believe in these ideas, rather than just trying to keep the explanation simple.
I’m very intrigued by this as some people swear by it and say they feel the difference and then u get others who say it’s not worth it,I suppose it’s a little subjective but on that test it almost sounds like it may not be worth it
@@SydneyGolfTech I suppose if u have the top of the range machines like SST then u could maybe know for certain but as u have said before,properly building a club and matching the shaft too the players swing will have more of a measurable difference on their game than “possibly” flo or spine alignment
I suppose that depends on where you think 12 o clock is. If I ever do it, I’d set the spine towards the target. However, what happens when the face is 2 degrees open or closed at impact? (Very rarely is the face square at impact). All seems like there are too many variables for this to have any benefit at all.
@@SydneyGolfTechfor golf I'd rather left/right control over up/down control... up/down should be a loft issue... thanks, this is the explanation is was looking for 👍
I think the FLO/Spine debate in golf club building comes from a placebo affect. Most golfers like to know that everything they do is of a benefit to their game. It's like in Days of Thunder when Cole's tyres are a "Matched set and staggered special". Just the belief that something is better can bring on better results.
I grew up in the Greg Norman Junior Golf Foundation and was coached by Charlie Earp himself. I was lucky enough to do a work experience fortnight with him in 1999 (1 week school time and 1 week in my holidays) and learnt a wealth of knowledge from him. He told me a story of when Greg would get a new set of irons and he wanted to "set them up" for tournament play. Greg would go to the range and hit 10's of shots with each club looking for the one that he felt was more consistent and felt the best. He would then remove the grip of the club he liked best and see where the weld line was. After finding that out he then removed all the other shafts and set the weld line in the same position.
Charlie couldn't say if it made any difference or not as each set of irons had the shaft weld line set at a different position but when standing over a 4 iron into a hard Par 3 knowing you did what you could to have a perfect golf club, it made all the difference in the world.
It’s absolutely a placebo. I’m still yet to see any scientific results about the benefits. Plenty of people believe, but I would like to see facts, not just stories. Golf is massively a head game, and if it helps your head, great.
I flo'd an old Mizuno driver years ago. I dont know why, but I instantly found it to be more consistent. Since then I have flo'd all my clubs new and old. I think the one thing for me is that when you use a spine finder and you feel the difference in the stiffness as you turn the club, surely if the spine is in all these different spots throughout the bag, then it has to affect the flex on each club. Whist it might not make a huge difference to us Ams, in my mind its just one less variable. Again, just in my mind. These videos are always interesting about flowing and spining.
So if it effects the flex, how do you know whether or not each shaft is matched to flex? If you flo them all, does the flex then automatically correlate to each shaft? How do you then determine the flex of each shaft? I think your best bet is to always trust the flex from the manufacturer, rather than trying to match a flex with little to no tooling. Like I mentioned, maybe matching a cpm could work, but simply finding a spine or flo will not match flex in a set. You may have simply found the strongest flex of each shaft, which is totally different to matching a set.
@@SydneyGolfTech well you raise one important word there mate, trust!! It would be interesting to put a long iron shaft in a cpm machine and test it at different orientations. That would end a lot of speculation. This topic never fails to raise interesting discussions. Thanks for your reply. Makes perfect sense.
@@dcloder and then there is a problem with cpm machines. They only ever measure butt stiffness, not tip or mid stiffness. There’s way too much manipulation of information on the internet to allow people to come up with some crazy ideas. The single biggest effect on flex is weight.
Big thanks for taking the time to do this test. I don’t think the flow is a factor for most players, not even most pros. However, spine alignment definitely has an impact on the flex pattern.
How is that possible when a shaft flexes in 2 directions?
top video into spine alignment and flo, Brilliant insight, it seems that spine and flo are very popular at the moment a couple of members at my club have been talking up the benefits of it yet their club striking is no different. Your video has shown me enough not to rate it as important as some golfers think.
Keep them coming
The placebo effect is probably greater than anything. Thanks for the great feedback.
Love the information. Sound on this video wasn't your best. Please keep up your good work
Thanks for watching 😀
At 2:55, is that the point where the shaft „rests“ or is that the point where the shaft could turn both ways? Regards
It’s neither. It’s the point at which you can feel the seam in the shaft when it has load on it.
@@SydneyGolfTech so, just to make it clear for me. It‘s the point where the shaft bends the least and resists the most?
@@Samson.Boedefeld not what I said but it could be the case. If it was the case, surely then the CPM would change. If the CPM changes, which CPM number is advertised by the manufacturer. The point that I try and make in this video is that there are far too many variables and it is a waste of time to go through these processes. It’s impossible to have all variables lined up. Maybe I should do a more comprehensive video for those that actually believe in these ideas, rather than just trying to keep the explanation simple.
I’m very intrigued by this as some people swear by it and say they feel the difference and then u get others who say it’s not worth it,I suppose it’s a little subjective but on that test it almost sounds like it may not be worth it
I’m yet to see any definitive, measurable evidence that suggests it has performance benefits. I’m happy to be proven wrong though.
@@SydneyGolfTech I suppose if u have the top of the range machines like SST then u could maybe know for certain but as u have said before,properly building a club and matching the shaft too the players swing will have more of a measurable difference on their game than “possibly” flo or spine alignment
@@michaelgillies9075 I still haven’t seen any evidence that suggests SST is measurably better.
@@SydneyGolfTech from your test it certainly doesn’t look like it’s worth the extra cost
is the flow/spine set at 9&3 or 12&6?
I suppose that depends on where you think 12 o clock is. If I ever do it, I’d set the spine towards the target. However, what happens when the face is 2 degrees open or closed at impact? (Very rarely is the face square at impact). All seems like there are too many variables for this to have any benefit at all.
@@SydneyGolfTechfor golf I'd rather left/right control over up/down control... up/down should be a loft issue...
thanks, this is the explanation is was looking for 👍