Why can't they just make tier based on the unit's role, like DPS, Buffer, Debuffer and Tank ? So people can actually fill in what's missing from their team rather than chasing the DPS creep.
Sow is not a classic gacha when it comes to defined roles. The strategy is more based in your main char( no necessary damage, but central of your strategie) like focused on controlling with only Momo/Layla and supports, accelerating turns for big nukes, using multiple single-target damage more fast than you opponent can't stak , and exploring other unconventional ideas. It often involves combining certain characters with others rather than sticking to classic role.
I think a major problem about tier list, especially in a tactical game like SoC, is that each unit's value is also dependent on the situational condition in which they are deployed; thus a tier list that seek to generalize each character into one common ranking will definitely face problem like this one. So although they are useful to give a general overview, they lack or didn't provide insight for more situational conditions.
Yeah. I have pretty much every character right now, and despite having multiple tier0 options, I still use NonoWill almost everywhere. It's insane how versatile she is in terms of damage, damage amp, mobility AND survival And at the same time characters like Saffiyah, while being ridiculously op in some situations, can be completely useless in others. For example if enemies are always too far and she can't apply her mark at the start of the turn, her damage drops off a lot. And if her enemies have a lot of AoE (even stuff like 2-tile melee attacks from random breakers)m then her dodge mechanic will do absolutely nothing. So in the end, it's all about picking the right tools for the job
They also only reflect how good each character is in a vacuum. Nungal is at the bottom of every tier list and yet I used her to defeat a level 70 weapon trial, two of the lvl 65 Tarot trials and in the voyage of discovery because she combos so well with Saffiyah.
If I'm remembering correctly, you don't even need to win a single match to get max live PvP rewards in this game. I'm not sure why any consideration is given to PvP tier lists at all.
@@Fashbinder Yes, and I specified live PvP in my comment. I don't recall a need to win any matches in _live_ PvP either, just to complete them. That's if I'm remembering correctly, and if I am, why is the community prioritizing PvP tier lists? PvE tier lists would provide more value.
Don'y worry about PVP misson, matching with fds counts too. TOA were the main continuous event that matter if u aiming for getting more rewards. Ofcouse you can clear the TOA content with low tier unit no doubt, but you are competing with all the players in ur server, it's a ranking system, more reward at higher rank. FYI in last TOA, you do better than 95% players in CN server for getting 340k score, in TW server however, 820k score were needed to be 95% up. So CN tier list would be a little bit off, as less efforts needed to put in for regular players. Btw those CN videos were ads for new character basically, and the reference Doughtato use were wellknow as the most shit talker, he fked up once again in the newest character(No.21 at the list) we got in TW&CN server, her dmg output were crazy for single target, the aoe mage (No16) & single target maid (No.15) were really hard to use but still rank high in his list. For ur interest, Kvare were the best aoe & dot unit in current meta and he do non% piercing dmg, no doubt for him to be that high at rank.
IMO stars needed is important, but only if the unit does not function consistently below 5 stars. If the unit only needs 3 stars, it shouldn't be an issue.
@@havvky you said it yourself, only reason Edda is not top tier is because the barrel simply doesn't work on ToA. If it did, she'd probably stand amongst the T0 units. No amount of cost-efficiency will make her better because her fatal flaw doesn't have a workaround. Also, Cocoa does her job extremely well even with 0 happiness procs. She's a lot more than just NRG and CD bot, so you're not handicapped pre-5 star.
Generally agree with your sentiments but I would argue that star investment is really important because as f2p or small spendors its hard to build up characters to 3*+. Take Auguste, people are saying hes a skip despite being the best breaker DPS because he needs 4/5* to be at best and by that time Tristan might be out whose amazing at only 2*.
No but that's where characters roles are important too, Cocoa is almost impossible to replace whereas Augustes niche as a dps is something that you potentially can. When you can only efficiently build up 3 characters at a time through memory retrieval I just think it's important to be aware of the investment needed to make them optimal. Also as a heads up to players who might not realize that when looking at a list like this. Edit: about Kvare I wonder if his placement on these tier lists might fluctuate with trends in ToA, piercing and DoT are something that's often hosed by end game bosses. Though I don't really understand the intricacies of his kit.
You keep saying we like everyone agrees with you. I only agree on seeing the pve only tier list too, otherwise doughs video was great. I don't trust anything anyone has to say blindly but I find there can be a kernel of knowledge even in the most barren waste lands. That's why I watch your videos 😂...and of course you wouldn't make a tier list you never make anything original ever...all you ever do is criticize other people's hard work for your own benefit.
is there any resource that says "if you have x they fill a similiar role as y"? So for instance for dps, maybe if I have a tier 0.5 dps (Auguste), the value of a tier 0 dps drops a bit (e.g. Tristan), as they do the same thing on the team but one might do it a bit better, but who I have does it well enough? or alternatively, take samantha vs innana, even though they are both healers, they dont necessarily fill the same role, as innana can provide extra turns, so she's kind of irreplacable if that's what you looking for. I ask because I have an almost 5 star Gloria, who is playing a supporting role on my team, but there are 2 tier 0 supports coming up in Homa and teer (however you spell their name). I'm most likely not going to have room for multiple supports on a given team (on top of the Cocoa i'm using as a buffer/healer currently) so pulling for characters that might just sit on the bench doesn't make much sense when im f2p and resoures are limited. If you have a Gloria that you've invested in, are the other two still worth getting?
Yes the supports still have room on the team, u will have 2 teams of up to 6 for ToA so you will have a few supports per team. Like inanna taair cocoa in one gloria homa in another really depends
TOA and PVP are the only content that cant be beaten by free luxite teams right? So technically TOA and PVP should be the only tiers that matter. Agreed on your PVP comments about no rewards being pointless. So from that, the only meta is TOA.
Hmm i not sure luxite teams could beat TOA, i do see CN/TW player use all Epic Unit before, ofc it cost more Round than a Legendary team but yea i believe ToA do able with full Epic Unit team.
What i want to know is why is tristan so high, yeah i hear she's very good at dps but higher than taair and saffiyah? idk. Compared to auguste, she definitely looks alot better in pvp but not in pve from what i've seen.
Taair is Support And Tristan better compare to Auguste and rawiyah alter because they doing multiple instant skill with AOE physical DMG Tristan low cost win against Auguste low cost (low cost is not 5 star) Auguste need 5 star to be functional as broken character While Tristan is fine at low star
Building on manyblock's explanation, Tristan is favored due to the lower star cost and higher initial burst in the first two turns for Tower of Adversity is my understanding. Auguste I believe wins out in damage over a sustained fight but really wants a high star level
Depend on what are you using for the rest of your team. I'm using Alert + debuff team, Momo + Faycal + Nono + Edda + Inanna so I definitely don't need Simona. Before the boss can hit my units, they would get hit first with some dmg and additional debuff that their dmg would weaken. So tierlist is subjective to what team are you building around them.
She's good if u need stall or PVP But for DPS check, she's bad For example ToA favor more to character with great Buff, Def Debuff and Bonker DPS Simona wasn't part of that
Any tier list without Edda on it is not a good tier list. she is so insanely strong. i have her at 5 star right now and she melts everyone in pvp and pve.
@@nguyentranminhthoi8962 no, reason why she's T0 because Wine debuff is soo good because it's seperate debuff from M. Def Down which possible to have enemy with 0 M.Def using Edda Wine But now ToA makes enemy resistance to Wine barrels effect which significant lower Edda usage on ToA She still offer great support skill tho especially box one to gain Highland advantage While Def Down is attribute debuff, if enemy immune that, that makes Acambe, Saffi etc. Can't give debuff to enemy
@@manyblock4192 thanks for the info but i just wanna ask a bit more to make sure i understand it right, so on ToA Wine barrels from Edda got no effect on Boss but DEF down from Acambe, Saffi, ect still work?
![HAWKY'S WACK CN PVE TIERLIST [Sword of Convallaria]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lnvZjT9lqjY/mqdefault.jpg)
![HAWKY'S WACK CN PVE TIERLIST [Sword of Convallaria]](/img/tr.png)
Why can't they just make tier based on the unit's role, like DPS, Buffer, Debuffer and Tank ? So people can actually fill in what's missing from their team rather than chasing the DPS creep.
@laizerwoolf I mean celion did it sorta with the diff attributes
Sow is not a classic gacha when it comes to defined roles. The strategy is more based in your main char( no necessary damage, but central of your strategie) like focused on controlling with only Momo/Layla and supports, accelerating turns for big nukes, using multiple single-target damage more fast than you opponent can't stak , and exploring other unconventional ideas. It often involves combining certain characters with others rather than sticking to classic role.
I think a major problem about tier list, especially in a tactical game like SoC, is that each unit's value is also dependent on the situational condition in which they are deployed; thus a tier list that seek to generalize each character into one common ranking will definitely face problem like this one. So although they are useful to give a general overview, they lack or didn't provide insight for more situational conditions.
Yea thats why it is tough and each event and content would make some units better or worse
Yeah. I have pretty much every character right now, and despite having multiple tier0 options, I still use NonoWill almost everywhere. It's insane how versatile she is in terms of damage, damage amp, mobility AND survival
And at the same time characters like Saffiyah, while being ridiculously op in some situations, can be completely useless in others. For example if enemies are always too far and she can't apply her mark at the start of the turn, her damage drops off a lot. And if her enemies have a lot of AoE (even stuff like 2-tile melee attacks from random breakers)m then her dodge mechanic will do absolutely nothing.
So in the end, it's all about picking the right tools for the job
They also only reflect how good each character is in a vacuum. Nungal is at the bottom of every tier list and yet I used her to defeat a level 70 weapon trial, two of the lvl 65 Tarot trials and in the voyage of discovery because she combos so well with Saffiyah.
in Dough video I hear he will target 3 star almost all in the tierlist, His Dough is thick and the yeast is expanding it.
Yea we not whale enough for his list lol
My boy Col really went down the drain since release
Col is a girl. A reverse trap if you will.
Damn, wait til you find out she's not even your boy either...
If I'm remembering correctly, you don't even need to win a single match to get max live PvP rewards in this game. I'm not sure why any consideration is given to PvP tier lists at all.
Theres clash, which doesnt matter and you dont need to win. Then theres Live PVP, its what people mean when they say pvp.
@@Fashbinder Yes, and I specified live PvP in my comment. I don't recall a need to win any matches in _live_ PvP either, just to complete them. That's if I'm remembering correctly, and if I am, why is the community prioritizing PvP tier lists? PvE tier lists would provide more value.
Guild pvp content most likely, which isn't even out in TW/CN and makes it more confusing lol
Don'y worry about PVP misson, matching with fds counts too. TOA were the main continuous event that matter if u aiming for getting more rewards.
Ofcouse you can clear the TOA content with low tier unit no doubt, but you are competing with all the players in ur server, it's a ranking system, more reward at higher rank.
FYI in last TOA, you do better than 95% players in CN server for getting 340k score, in TW server however, 820k score were needed to be 95% up. So CN tier list would be a little bit off, as less efforts needed to put in for regular players.
Btw those CN videos were ads for new character basically, and the reference Doughtato use were wellknow as the most shit talker, he fked up once again in the newest character(No.21 at the list) we got in TW&CN server, her dmg output were crazy for single target, the aoe mage (No16) & single target maid (No.15) were really hard to use but still rank high in his list.
For ur interest, Kvare were the best aoe & dot unit in current meta and he do non% piercing dmg, no doubt for him to be that high at rank.
IMO stars needed is important, but only if the unit does not function consistently below 5 stars. If the unit only needs 3 stars, it shouldn't be an issue.
But its like saying Edda works at 1 star so she should be higher than Cocoa who is only good at 5 stars
@@havvky you said it yourself, only reason Edda is not top tier is because the barrel simply doesn't work on ToA. If it did, she'd probably stand amongst the T0 units. No amount of cost-efficiency will make her better because her fatal flaw doesn't have a workaround. Also, Cocoa does her job extremely well even with 0 happiness procs. She's a lot more than just NRG and CD bot, so you're not handicapped pre-5 star.
The Xavier hate still baffles me. Magnus, Datalion, and Xavier together is crazy
The issue is that's 3 heroes that u have to get lucky or pull on dual banners for
Pamina is high in my head 😍
she's in my list, coz of the sprite! 😂
She's one of the strongest character in this game
im gonna pull one copy on all debut regardless. im using tierlist to know which one should i prio in shard farm
"DONT BLINDLY TRUST TIERLISTS" I see a video like this every 6 months. Weird that this is still not common knowledge
Yea keep in mind alot of people from the srpg single player genre so it didn't matter too much there
They should rank them by viability of contributing to a meta team per game mode
I think his video is based on the CN Tier list not so much what he thinks as much.
Generally agree with your sentiments but I would argue that star investment is really important because as f2p or small spendors its hard to build up characters to 3*+. Take Auguste, people are saying hes a skip despite being the best breaker DPS because he needs 4/5* to be at best and by that time Tristan might be out whose amazing at only 2*.
Yes but it's also like saying would u rank cocoa lower because u need her 5 star compared to say auguste who needs 4 star?
No but that's where characters roles are important too, Cocoa is almost impossible to replace whereas Augustes niche as a dps is something that you potentially can. When you can only efficiently build up 3 characters at a time through memory retrieval I just think it's important to be aware of the investment needed to make them optimal. Also as a heads up to players who might not realize that when looking at a list like this.
Edit: about Kvare I wonder if his placement on these tier lists might fluctuate with trends in ToA, piercing and DoT are something that's often hosed by end game bosses. Though I don't really understand the intricacies of his kit.
You keep saying we like everyone agrees with you. I only agree on seeing the pve only tier list too, otherwise doughs video was great. I don't trust anything anyone has to say blindly but I find there can be a kernel of knowledge even in the most barren waste lands. That's why I watch your videos 😂...and of course you wouldn't make a tier list you never make anything original ever...all you ever do is criticize other people's hard work for your own benefit.
Exemplar: All unit is Legendary for me
I don't care about tierlist I use Alexi cause I like him and I plan to use Xavier as well (I accidently got Xavier so I don't have any choice XD)
Xavier is amazing and underrated
@@michaelferrell4869 yeah he's so underrated that I won't pull for Auguste and will build him instead.
I'm not interested in PVP at all.
Are there any good pve only tier lists?
Yeah I did one a few days ago th-cam.com/video/lnvZjT9lqjY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zV9AlWIPkGXtTHDz
is there any resource that says "if you have x they fill a similiar role as y"? So for instance for dps, maybe if I have a tier 0.5 dps (Auguste), the value of a tier 0 dps drops a bit (e.g. Tristan), as they do the same thing on the team but one might do it a bit better, but who I have does it well enough? or alternatively, take samantha vs innana, even though they are both healers, they dont necessarily fill the same role, as innana can provide extra turns, so she's kind of irreplacable if that's what you looking for. I ask because I have an almost 5 star Gloria, who is playing a supporting role on my team, but there are 2 tier 0 supports coming up in Homa and teer (however you spell their name). I'm most likely not going to have room for multiple supports on a given team (on top of the Cocoa i'm using as a buffer/healer currently) so pulling for characters that might just sit on the bench doesn't make much sense when im f2p and resoures are limited. If you have a Gloria that you've invested in, are the other two still worth getting?
Yes the supports still have room on the team, u will have 2 teams of up to 6 for ToA so you will have a few supports per team. Like inanna taair cocoa in one gloria homa in another really depends
Doughtato 😂
TOA and PVP are the only content that cant be beaten by free luxite teams right? So technically TOA and PVP should be the only tiers that matter. Agreed on your PVP comments about no rewards being pointless. So from that, the only meta is TOA.
I think some events might struggle with free luxite teams not too sure
Hmm i not sure luxite teams could beat TOA, i do see CN/TW player use all Epic Unit before, ofc it cost more Round than a Legendary team but yea i believe ToA do able with full Epic Unit team.
ToA can be cleared with low rarity units, just slower than legends. It matters for those who care, since ToA ranks you based on speed.
As always hawky always comes with a good content 🔥
Thanks for the support
any news on when cocoa rerun?
No rerun banner, but she will be in Dual banner around 6 month
@@manyblock4192 noted tq
I freaking love u mannn best soc content creator for sureee🫡❤️
What i want to know is why is tristan so high, yeah i hear she's very good at dps but higher than taair and saffiyah? idk. Compared to auguste, she definitely looks alot better in pvp but not in pve from what i've seen.
Taair is Support
And Tristan better compare to Auguste and rawiyah alter because they doing multiple instant skill with AOE physical DMG
Tristan low cost win against Auguste low cost (low cost is not 5 star)
Auguste need 5 star to be functional as broken character
While Tristan is fine at low star
Building on manyblock's explanation, Tristan is favored due to the lower star cost and higher initial burst in the first two turns for Tower of Adversity is my understanding. Auguste I believe wins out in damage over a sustained fight but really wants a high star level
Simona is one unit you must have she good it slow down boss that one shot your units
Depend on what are you using for the rest of your team.
I'm using Alert + debuff team, Momo + Faycal + Nono + Edda + Inanna so I definitely don't need Simona. Before the boss can hit my units, they would get hit first with some dmg and additional debuff that their dmg would weaken.
So tierlist is subjective to what team are you building around them.
She's good if u need stall or PVP
But for DPS check, she's bad
For example ToA favor more to character with great Buff, Def Debuff and Bonker DPS
Simona wasn't part of that
Gloria carried me early
Game,’but I havnt used her a single
Time in weeks
Any tier list without Edda on it is not a good tier list. she is so insanely strong. i have her at 5 star right now and she melts everyone in pvp and pve.
The main issue is in ToA her mdef from liquor doesn't work on the bosses.
@@havvky oh even the DEF down from Acambe?
@@nguyentranminhthoi8962 no, reason why she's T0 because Wine debuff is soo good because it's seperate debuff from M. Def Down which possible to have enemy with 0 M.Def using Edda Wine
But now ToA makes enemy resistance to Wine barrels effect which significant lower Edda usage on ToA
She still offer great support skill tho especially box one to gain Highland advantage
While Def Down is attribute debuff, if enemy immune that, that makes Acambe, Saffi etc. Can't give debuff to enemy
@@manyblock4192 thanks for the info but i just wanna ask a bit more to make sure i understand it right, so on ToA Wine barrels from Edda got no effect on Boss but DEF down from Acambe, Saffi, ect still work?
@@nguyentranminhthoi8962 Depend on Mutation, usually it's work