I just went through this on my 86 FXWG 2 weeks ago. I found there was pitting on the ball seat. A friend owns a machine shop and had a "Ball mill" the same dia as the check ball itself. We manually worked it down a few thousands, then lightly lapped it. Perfection! No leak!
Lapping this check ball seat made my day...I have asked a lot of people how to solve this problem,but nobody gave me a good answer,THANK YOU ! Best regards from Portugal 🇵🇹
I never thought when I started my channel that I could help people so far away. Thank you for watching and thank you for coming. If you haven’t, please subscribe.
@@Rapsgarage Thank you,now I have to get a new check ball and spring set,here this is problem,might let it send in from Germany...nice videos man !...and super service that you answer !
Rap, I don't know how I found you but I sure am glad I did. I have an 84 Softail that hasn't been running in many years. All the oil has stumped and I'm sure I'm going to have a mess on my hands.
You will have a mess! I'd pull the spark plugs squirt some oil into the cylinders and spin the motor over for a minute hoping to pump some of it back to the oil tank. Be sure to only add 1-2 quarts to the oil tank (if needed) and leave the oil cap off since it will pump a good bit back to the oil tank. Watch the level in the tank and the oil pressure light when you start it. If the oil tank goes empty or the oil pressure light comes on you will need to add more oil. If it pumps all of it back then the oil tank will overflow and spill out. Either way it's going to come out either the vent or overflow the tank but it MUST HAVE OIL!! Let me know how you make out with it.
@@Rapsgarage I did take the spark plugs out, I shot some lubricant down inside with Kickstart a few times. Oil couldn't wait to spew out LOL. I ordered a new battery and waiting for it in. Your accent sounds like you might be from the Baltimore area. I'm in the Gettysburg area. When I get the battery in and try to start it I'll let you know how I make out. Thanks so much for your reply
Thanks for taking the time to list part numbers on your videos. It makes it MUCH easier for us DIYers to find and order the correct parts for our own projects. Keep up the good work!
I’d put blue machinist dye on it and lap it again to make sure the seat is good. Also check for cracks. Replace the ball and spring. After that I’d check to make sure the the scavenging pump is working properly. It could be that you’re filling the crank case with oil and not getting it out. I’d also check to make sure your oil lines are good. If you have a oil line that’s collapsed internally it will not let it scavenge the cam chest.
Thank you!! to be honest I’m not that sure with the FXR’s. I know with the softails you do not and I imagine the FXR is the same way. I’m sure you could find that manual online somewhere and it would answer your question. Thank you for watching and please don’t forget to subscribe.
This is great info. I have an 91 fxrs-sp that's pushing oil out the breather..do you think maybe the check ball is the issue? Do you have a video on removing the pump off the bike?
Great in-depth external oil pump video. I'm having that wet sumping issue on my '88 Evo Softail more often than I would like, and I want to do something about it. I was going to replace the check ball and spring, but now I'm thinking I need to somehow clean down where the ball seats. How would you recommend I do that with the oil pump on the bike? Thanks!
I would replace the ball and spring. I would also get a good carburetor cleaner and a Q-tip and clean it that way. You will need to drain the oil from the oil tank before you start. Make sure you check the ball seat in the pump to make sure it’s not cracked or broken. Lastly I would make the tool I have and use very fine lapping compound. Only use very little then clean it out with a Q-tip. You have to do your best to get it all out. Thank you for watching and please subscribe if you’re not.
Rap, my shovel is dumping badly. I was told to drain the crankcase oil, but I don’t see a drain plug. Can you point out where to drain oil from? Thanks, Todd
Unfortunately, you have to spin the engine without spark plugs and have the extra oil come into the oil tank and out the vent. Be prepared for a mess on the ground. If it’s really over full, you’re probably gonna have to pull the cam cover, which you have to remove the pushrods before doing so.
For a new Chek Ball and light spring for a 1986 Harley softail fxst, I’m without my owners manual presently.. recommendations to source new ones(or do I reuse the ones in the pump now)? Also, can I use your technique of welding a ball on a rod with lapping compound while the external oil pump still affixed to the bike. Didn’t know if I could remove the face to do the work, of the oil pump leaving everything in tact, only working on the check ball and light spring ? I love this stuff yet don’t want to make myself anymore work the needed. Thanks all. Any leads or videos- I’m grateful. G-d bless all.
@@EthanFox-jw7oc I don’t have a way to get the part number for the parts. I would say if the ball looks good then reuse it. With the spring, you cam give them a little stretch but not much. Go easy with it. Maybe lengthen it a 1/4”. You can lap the seat with the pump connected to the engine but only use a small amount of compound. Its important to drain the oil from the oil tank before you start. It’s super important to get the lapping compound all out. I would use a Q-tip but with that you need to get all of the fibers out too. After you think you have all the compound out, pour a bit of oil into the oil tank. The oil will flow out of the pump at this location and flush out any compound that may be left. Needless to say that it’s safer to do it off the engine but I’ve done it the way I described above.
@Rapsgarage thanks!!! Need to clean compound necessarily? Or mix with engine oil ok? If have to clean, I will work without separate oil pump from engine
I knew it! I'm on my first Shovelhead, but while watching Pacific Mike install an oil pump, I thought it didn't look right because there is no way to check for binding... His pinion gear was in. Suspicion confirmed. Any idea if I should upgrade my 1980 pump to the later type and drill the hole? That was my plan on my bike with 12,000 original miles... The hope is to fix the '80 - '81 oiling trouble I hear about... but what do I know...
I’ve never heard of that problem so I would say if it lasted this long, why change it. I’d run the factory pump. I’m glad you liked my video and thank you for watching. If you haven’t subscribe, please do.
If you have an Evo or older motor it sounds like you have a broken key either the crank drive gear to the oil pump shaft or the oil pump gear to the drive shaft. You either have to pull the pump and check or pull the cam cover and check. If it’s twin cam or M8 you have to pull the cover on the cam chest. If you need further help, you can email me your phone number at hdrap_1999@yahoo.com
I saw in video you using a manual as reference were can I get one the cover year I have an Indian motorcycle 2000 Gil Roy external pump S&S engine 88inc
Ok, so i am left with a question. I picked up an early fatboy, it needed a ton of work so it didnt run for a while, 2 or 3 months maybe a little more. After getting everyrhing put back together, i fired it up and this is when i learned about sumping and the results... So being that this is a builder bike, i looked into rebuilding ( which is how i found your video ) and i also lookes at simply replacing the pump all together. Im on the fence. S&S has a pump, $600, but i found v-twin mfg for half the price... Traditionally speaking, s&s is more performance based and v twin is more of a remanufacure...at least thats been my experience, forgive my ignorance if im wrong.... BUT!!! my question... are the specs the same? If i purchased the s&s ( because name brand value resale type thing )... hypothetically speaking in 3 years if it needs a rebuild are the parts the same?
I can't really answer your question. I would say this... I recommend keeping the pump you have if it not scored up and the gears are good. I have this video of fixing the sumping issue and I have another video on how to install you oil pump the proper way. The Harleys oil pumps are great so why spend the money. As far as S&S goes, they make great products! V-twin MFG is Taiwan junk! I would not trust that stuff. Would you go to a cut rate doctor for a heart operation or pay for the guy who is the best. Your oil pump is the heart of the engine. I hope this helped. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Thank you for watching and don't forget to like and subscribe. th-cam.com/video/n9XF6znbj0Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0DpKBtboJ2WGYgpz
@@KieranMckean I've always installed them dry. I've seen a few video's where they put glue on the pump gasket but I worry that the glue can clog an oil port. That would be really bad. If your block or pump has damage where the gasket surface is then I'd consider using some sort of glue or sealer. That's just my 2 cents...
@@Rapsgarage Thank you for the information and quick response to my questions it will enable me to keep my FXE super glide on the road for another 44 years. 🍻
There's only one other engine builder that I know of that recommend lapping the oil pump checkball seat like that, Keenan Tatro, of Tatro Machine, SanDiego cA.
@@Rapsgarage Tatro is an acquired taste. I didn't like him either when I first found his videos, but after a while I learned to appreciate his skills. He has to be the hardest working guy on TH-cam.
@@thomaskirkpatrick4031 I watched a video of his and he pulled the left side crankshaft bearing off to change the shim for the end play. When he pulled the bearing he pulled it from the outside race. Then he reused the bearing. That’s something you definitely can’t do. You have to throw that bearing away and get a new one. When I questioned him on it he tried to defend himself rather then admit he was wrong. I told him it’s bearing 101 then he called me an A-hole. Lol He does other stuff that’s not the way it’s done. If you know what you’re looking at you can see he’s not as good as he thinks he is. Dragon Man is way worse!!
@@Rapsgarage I'm not defending him, but a lot of the work he does on bikes, is for guys that don't have any money. He's called me an asshole lots of times. Once for asking him the temperature. Right or wrong I enjoy watching his videos, same as I enjoyed watching yours.
Outstanding video. Clear, concise and no music. Thanks! 👍 L & S'd
Thank you for the compliment. Thank you for watching and if you haven’t, please like and subscribe.
Thank You
Glad I could help.
I just went through this on my 86 FXWG 2 weeks ago. I found there was pitting on the ball seat. A friend owns a machine shop and had a "Ball mill" the same dia as the check ball itself. We manually worked it down a few thousands, then lightly lapped it. Perfection! No leak!
That’s a great way to fix it. Thanks for sharing this information!
Did you have to open the cam chest or were you able to pull the body off without pulling the cams out?
Lapping this check ball seat made my day...I have asked a lot of people how to solve this problem,but nobody gave me a good answer,THANK YOU ! Best regards from Portugal 🇵🇹
I never thought when I started my channel that I could help people so far away. Thank you for watching and thank you for coming. If you haven’t, please subscribe.
@@Rapsgarage Thank you,now I have to get a new check ball and spring set,here this is problem,might let it send in from Germany...nice videos man !...and super service that you answer !
THANK YOU! so helpful
Awesome! I'm glad I can help. Please like and subscribe. Thx
Definitely one of the most detailed mechanical videos I've ever seen.
I appreciate that. I have plenty more like it. If you haven’t liked and subscribed, please do.
Rap, I don't know how I found you but I sure am glad I did. I have an 84 Softail that hasn't been running in many years. All the oil has stumped and I'm sure I'm going to have a mess on my hands.
You will have a mess! I'd pull the spark plugs squirt some oil into the cylinders and spin the motor over for a minute hoping to pump some of it back to the oil tank. Be sure to only add 1-2 quarts to the oil tank (if needed) and leave the oil cap off since it will pump a good bit back to the oil tank. Watch the level in the tank and the oil pressure light when you start it. If the oil tank goes empty or the oil pressure light comes on you will need to add more oil. If it pumps all of it back then the oil tank will overflow and spill out. Either way it's going to come out either the vent or overflow the tank but it MUST HAVE OIL!! Let me know how you make out with it.
@@Rapsgarage I did take the spark plugs out, I shot some lubricant down inside with Kickstart a few times. Oil couldn't wait to spew out LOL. I ordered a new battery and waiting for it in. Your accent sounds like you might be from the Baltimore area. I'm in the Gettysburg area. When I get the battery in and try to start it I'll let you know how I make out. Thanks so much for your reply
@@dragonslayer671 Philly area...
@@Rapsgarage it's alive!!! I'm probably going to have to rebuild the carburetor. Nevertheless it's alive
@@dragonslayer671 Awesome! Great job and thanks for letting me know!
All 🎉your vids are keepers for this badd boy ShovelHead rider .❤ Be well AND THANSK BILL
Awesome! Thank you so much!
Master class on rebuilding a shovels oil pump. Outstanding.
Thank you!!
Good job on explaining the ball check valve and how to lap the seat. Lotta people don't realize that. Nice work, Bro
Thank you. If you haven’t please subscribe.
Already subscribed awhile ago. Thanks for asking.
Having some sumping issues now, so time for a tear down of my oil pump..wanna thank you on the video.. Bobby D Jackson New Jersey.
I’m glad I was able to help. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Thanks for educating and enlightening us - its truly appreciated 👍
Thank you. If you haven’t please subscribe.
Thanks for taking the time to list part numbers on your videos. It makes it MUCH easier for us DIYers to find and order the correct parts for our own projects. Keep up the good work!
Your welcome. I totally get it since I’m a DIY. If you haven’t please subscribe. Thx
I have done all this and including having a machine shop very lightly machine the ball seat. Still leaks like crazy just sitting there.
I’d put blue machinist dye on it and lap it again to make sure the seat is good. Also check for cracks. Replace the ball and spring. After that I’d check to make sure the the scavenging pump is working properly. It could be that you’re filling the crank case with oil and not getting it out. I’d also check to make sure your oil lines are good. If you have a oil line that’s collapsed internally it will not let it scavenge the cam chest.
Great video, do you have to take the motor out of the bike to remove the oil pump in a 1989 FXRS?
Thank you!! to be honest I’m not that sure with the FXR’s. I know with the softails you do not and I imagine the FXR is the same way. I’m sure you could find that manual online somewhere and it would answer your question. Thank you for watching and please don’t forget to subscribe.
Great info, I appreciate these videos.
Glad to help. Thx for watching
where do you put the screen ?
It’s on the right side of the engine block at the back corner of the cam chest. If you email me at hdrap_1999@yahoo.com I can send you a picture.
This is great info. I have an 91 fxrs-sp that's pushing oil out the breather..do you think maybe the check ball is the issue? Do you have a video on removing the pump off the bike?
I have an install video. Just do it in reverse.
Harley Oil pump install the right way Shovel Evo Pan
th-cam.com/video/n9XF6znbj0Y/w-d-xo.html
I would remove the check ball and check to see if it has dirt under it. I’d also try replacing the check ball and spring before I’d remove the pump.
Excellent video, thanks
Thank you for watching!
Great in-depth external oil pump video. I'm having that wet sumping issue on my '88 Evo Softail more often than I would like, and I want to do something about it. I was going to replace the check ball and spring, but now I'm thinking I need to somehow clean down where the ball seats. How would you recommend I do that with the oil pump on the bike? Thanks!
I would replace the ball and spring. I would also get a good carburetor cleaner and a Q-tip and clean it that way. You will need to drain the oil from the oil tank before you start. Make sure you check the ball seat in the pump to make sure it’s not cracked or broken. Lastly I would make the tool I have and use very fine lapping compound. Only use very little then clean it out with a Q-tip. You have to do your best to get it all out. Thank you for watching and please subscribe if you’re not.
Thanks much! Just sub'd too👍
👍🏻
Great video!
Thanks!
Rap, my shovel is dumping badly. I was told to drain the crankcase oil, but I don’t see a drain plug. Can you point out where to drain oil from? Thanks, Todd
Unfortunately, you have to spin the engine without spark plugs and have the extra oil come into the oil tank and out the vent. Be prepared for a mess on the ground. If it’s really over full, you’re probably gonna have to pull the cam cover, which you have to remove the pushrods before doing so.
For a new Chek Ball and light spring for a 1986 Harley softail fxst, I’m without my owners manual presently.. recommendations to source new ones(or do I reuse the ones in the pump now)?
Also, can I use your technique of welding a ball on a rod with lapping compound while the external oil pump still affixed to the bike.
Didn’t know if I could remove the face to do the work, of the oil pump leaving everything in tact, only working on the check ball and light spring ?
I love this stuff yet don’t want to make myself anymore work the needed. Thanks all.
Any leads or videos- I’m grateful. G-d bless all.
@@EthanFox-jw7oc I don’t have a way to get the part number for the parts. I would say if the ball looks good then reuse it. With the spring, you cam give them a little stretch but not much. Go easy with it. Maybe lengthen it a 1/4”.
You can lap the seat with the pump connected to the engine but only use a small amount of compound. Its important to drain the oil from the oil tank before you start. It’s super important to get the lapping compound all out. I would use a Q-tip but with that you need to get all of the fibers out too. After you think you have all the compound out, pour a bit of oil into the oil tank. The oil will flow out of the pump at this location and flush out any compound that may be left. Needless to say that it’s safer to do it off the engine but I’ve done it the way I described above.
Could you plz let me know for compound grid spec?
Any fine grit is good. 600 grit is what I used.
@Rapsgarage thanks!!! Need to clean compound necessarily? Or mix with engine oil ok? If have to clean, I will work without separate oil pump from engine
Must clean grit out. You don’t want any grit in your engine. You can do it on the bike but you must clean it before you finish.
@Rapsgarage Is there a way to clean it perfectly without removing it from engine?
@@DM1212-x6y I’ve used a q-tip and carb cleaner
I knew it! I'm on my first Shovelhead, but while watching Pacific Mike install an oil pump, I thought it didn't look right because there is no way to check for binding... His pinion gear was in. Suspicion confirmed.
Any idea if I should upgrade my 1980 pump to the later type and drill the hole? That was my plan on my bike with 12,000 original miles... The hope is to fix the '80 - '81 oiling trouble I hear about... but what do I know...
I’ve never heard of that problem so I would say if it lasted this long, why change it. I’d run the factory pump. I’m glad you liked my video and thank you for watching. If you haven’t subscribe, please do.
On my harley evo i have no oil pressure at all even when i give it rpm what could that be i have no kinks in my oil lines either
If you have an Evo or older motor it sounds like you have a broken key either the crank drive gear to the oil pump shaft or the oil pump gear to the drive shaft. You either have to pull the pump and check or pull the cam cover and check.
If it’s twin cam or M8 you have to pull the cover on the cam chest. If you need further help, you can email me your phone number at hdrap_1999@yahoo.com
I saw in video you using a manual as reference were can I get one the cover year I have an Indian motorcycle 2000 Gil Roy external pump S&S engine 88inc
I’m sure you can get an S&S manual online or you can call S&S with your serial numbers, and they will get you the right manual.
Thank you for reply with info 😀
excellent video, thanks
Glad you liked it! Thank you for watching and if you haven’t, please subscribe.
Ok, so i am left with a question.
I picked up an early fatboy, it needed a ton of work so it didnt run for a while, 2 or 3 months maybe a little more. After getting everyrhing put back together, i fired it up and this is when i learned about sumping and the results...
So being that this is a builder bike, i looked into rebuilding ( which is how i found your video ) and i also lookes at simply replacing the pump all together. Im on the fence. S&S has a pump, $600, but i found v-twin mfg for half the price...
Traditionally speaking, s&s is more performance based and v twin is more of a remanufacure...at least thats been my experience, forgive my ignorance if im wrong.... BUT!!! my question... are the specs the same? If i purchased the s&s ( because name brand value resale type thing )... hypothetically speaking in 3 years if it needs a rebuild are the parts the same?
I can't really answer your question. I would say this... I recommend keeping the pump you have if it not scored up and the gears are good. I have this video of fixing the sumping issue and I have another video on how to install you oil pump the proper way. The Harleys oil pumps are great so why spend the money. As far as S&S goes, they make great products! V-twin MFG is Taiwan junk! I would not trust that stuff. Would you go to a cut rate doctor for a heart operation or pay for the guy who is the best. Your oil pump is the heart of the engine. I hope this helped. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Thank you for watching and don't forget to like and subscribe. th-cam.com/video/n9XF6znbj0Y/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0DpKBtboJ2WGYgpz
lapping that hole is a good idea. motion pro makes that plug tool also way cheaper
I didn't know that but that tool was very cheap when I bought it, like $20. Thank you for watching.
Which gasket is the best way to go ?
Paper or the synthetic type ?
My pump is leaking quite a lot of oil.
@@KieranMckean the paper is what I found works the best.
@@Rapsgarage
Should I install them dry or use any adhesive? I assume dry .
Thanks for quickly responding 👍
@@KieranMckean I've always installed them dry. I've seen a few video's where they put glue on the pump gasket but I worry that the glue can clog an oil port. That would be really bad. If your block or pump has damage where the gasket surface is then I'd consider using some sort of glue or sealer. That's just my 2 cents...
@@Rapsgarage
Thank you for the information and quick response to my questions it will enable me to keep my FXE super glide on the road for another 44 years. 🍻
@@KieranMckean Awesome bike! I'm glad I can help. Please like and subscribe. Thx
Thank you .....👍👍👍👍
Thx
There's only one other engine builder that I know of that recommend lapping the oil pump checkball seat like that, Keenan Tatro, of Tatro Machine, SanDiego cA.
Well at least that guy got one thing right in between banging his tool on the workbench. I’m not a fan of his. Thank you for watching and commenting.
@@Rapsgarage Tatro is an acquired taste. I didn't like him either when I first found his videos, but after a while I learned to appreciate his skills. He has to be the hardest working guy on TH-cam.
@@thomaskirkpatrick4031 I watched a video of his and he pulled the left side crankshaft bearing off to change the shim for the end play. When he pulled the bearing he pulled it from the outside race. Then he reused the bearing. That’s something you definitely can’t do. You have to throw that bearing away and get a new one. When I questioned him on it he tried to defend himself rather then admit he was wrong. I told him it’s bearing 101 then he called me an A-hole. Lol He does other stuff that’s not the way it’s done. If you know what you’re looking at you can see he’s not as good as he thinks he is. Dragon Man is way worse!!
@@Rapsgarage I'm not defending him, but a lot of the work he does on bikes, is for guys that don't have any money. He's called me an asshole lots of times. Once for asking him the temperature. Right or wrong I enjoy watching his videos, same as I enjoyed watching yours.
@@thomaskirkpatrick4031 Sounds good buddy. Thanks for watching and the kind words. Let me know if I can help anytime in the future.