quick thumbs this up to keep it at top of page. RIFFs as thrashings as possibles: all RIFF 2 Mullard - 3:16 Philips - 3:22 Marshall - 3:28 Tung-Sol - 3:34 Audio Classic - 3:41 Ultron - 3:47 JJ ecc83 (2/2)- 3:54 Mullard ecc81 (1/2) - 4:00 Mullard ecc81 (2/2) - 4:07 Ruby - 4:14 Mullard ecc82 (1/2) - 4:20 Electro Harmonix - 4:26 TAD - 4:33 JJ ecc83 (1/2) - 4:40 MESA - 4:46 you should mod this clip to include the Svetlana ecc83 12AX7 or 12AX7A would love to see that with these.
Something tells me Johan spent a lot of his childhood getting in trouble when Mom or Dad came home and saw he'd taken everything they owned apart (lamps, TV's, radio, vacuum cleaner, etc) to see how much better he could make it. Great comparison!! Thank you!!
So when it comes to preamp tubes, the biggest variation you hear is the amount of gain coming from the tube. This in turn effects the tone of the amplifier due to how the tube is driving the rest of the components in the signal chain. Everyone understands how the tone of your guitar and amp change when you roll the volume knob on the guitar down right? It's a similar effect with preamp tubes. Lower gain will make the amp sound a little different than higher gain. The frequencies aren't necesarily different, that is, the tube itself is no different in it's fundamentals and harmonics and the rest compared to others, but all those factors are altered with less or more gain. Less gain sounds thinner with less signal punching out the upper harmonics. More gain means there will be richer upper harmonics and it'll sound fuller and thicker and maybe more dynamic. Companies like Mesa and Marshall have such extreme gain stages that they typically have lower gain ECC83's/12ax7s to maintain dynamic control in the multiple gain stages of say a rectifier or TSL100 etc. Fenders will have higher gain 12ax7s in V1 because the preamp gain is so much lower and you need that punch. You can really hear this if you roll ECC81, ECC82 and ECC83 tubes through V1 of a black face fender amp. Personally I put an ECC82 into V2 of my two channel fenders to lower the gain a bit and create more dynamic control over the signal. More gain is not always better in a preamp circuit depending on the amplifier. If you stick the highest gain ecc83/12ax7 into V2 or V3 of a dual rec, it can become an uncontrolable mess at half way on the channel gain control. Whereas on a plexy for instance, you may want the highest gain ecc83 in v1 because the amplifier doesn't have much additional gain in the preamp circuit so you want to drive the power amp section as hard as you can to achieve saturation. In this example, you can really hear the gain differences from tube to tube, but less so the tonal differences until the lower output tubes are demonstrated.
I think plate length makes a difference, although it might be psychoacoustics at work. Longer plates seem to have a fuller frequency response while shorter plates seem to give a darker, mid-humped sound.
I agree, Phillips ECC83 then the Mullard ECC83. I tried the Marshall ECC83 and the JJ ECC83 on my valvestate and the Marshall is very noticeably more bassy while the JJ is more trebley and a bit louder, me and my bro prefer the Marshall, in this video the extra bass isnt so obvious. The ? ECC83 sounds good too.
A little help on identifying what these tubes really are... The "Raytheon" is a Japanese Toshiba. It is not the US-made Raytheon The "?" or unknown tube is a Tungsram The "Ultron" is a RFT The "Ruby" is Chinese. So is the "TAD" The "Mullard" ECC82 #2 is really an Ei, from Yugoslavia There are four JJs: two are labeled as such, one is "Marshall"-labeled, and the other is "Mesa" The Philips is a long-plate (17mm), which are generally more articulate and are highly desired and expensive (if they don't suffer from microphony) I wonder how this changes everyone's perspective?
@@cgavin1 i totally agree. I like to use the LPS and save the old ones for the pre amp. Unless it makes a dramatic difference. Usually the LPS handles it well enough.
@@aquilarossa5191 I remember reading something about that online if I remember correctly alot of tube manufacturers did that in one form or the other I've also read brimar were also rebranded mullards or should I say made in the mullard factory I have a miniwatt meshplate ef86 in my ac15 that i swore sounded just like the mullard meshplate ef86 now I know why Cheers
I am a Marshall user and I just went through this process trying to optimize a Peavey Delta Blues 1x15" (same circuit as the Classic 30 but with tremolo). The distortion channel's clipping sounded like total crap, but now it actually sounds pretty close to a good Marshall. After hours of swapping tubes, here's what I learned. No two 12AX7's sound exactly the same regardless of the brand, model or specs. Such is the way it is. Now, assuming that your pickup is balanced under the strings correctly so that you can hear each string evenly and you're getting the magnetic response you want, aside from things like the gain, tonal character or if there's microphonic leakage in each tube you try, the most important thing to listen for in any tube is that it makes your high notes sound smooth and fat with good sustain. Even you're strictly a rhythm player, I would recommend this. There is no measurement to predict this, they just either do or they don't. The way a tube sounds in V1 is usually the best representation of how the tube really sounds and performs, so I start assessing them there. It really helps to number all your tubes and make some notes on them with a Sharpie. If you don't... I wish you luck. After weeding out what you didn't like in V1, take those and start trying them in the phase inverter. The PI will radically change the way the amp sounds, not so much from the audio characteristics of the tube, but how it changes the voltage operation and drives the power section. It's the most radical change you can make in the amp. Once you hit upon something you like, then you can go back and swap out different tubes in the preamp and "tweak". Now remember, whatever you try, as long as your high notes are nice and flutey, not thin and ice-picky, the rest is a matter of taste or what suits your needs. Old-school amps are easy, just one tube in the pre, but in multi-gain-stage amps like my Delta Blues, I found that you should start with a lower gain in V1 as to not oversaturate V2 and make that harsh, blurry clipping that many complain about. All the tubes I tried were standard JJ's and there was one that was extra "midrangey", that went to V2, and a super-hot, nasty, ballsy one (not good for V1/V2) went into the PI and really helped to drive the power section and warm things up. Other amps might respond differently and require an opposite approach with a super-hot V1... whatever works. I don't recommend substituting 12AU7's or 12AT7's in place of a 12AX7, it can work sometimes in certain amps but can also damage other amps. If you really need less gain in one spot for some reason, try a 5751, but they are inconsistent and not always a guitar friendly in tone or response. Happy tweaking!!!
I found some to buy here in Brazil, Phillips ECC83 miniwatt, from the 60's... can I go for it? the price is great. www.regence.com.br/valvula-12ax7-philips-miniwatt-51524123xJM
May I give you suggestion ? For this kind of test, I think you can use a looper pedal. With that pedal, you'll eliminate any variation in fretting and picking hand.
3:21 that Philips! Admit it, Johan, you were on your way out of the gate man! That sound and an SG in hand... perhaps a frosty beverage was the only missing piece lol This is another incredible video - I've watched it already a dozen times. Thank you so much for your time, talent, and sharing this with the world. Cheers!
Used to spend so much time buying and trying preamp tubes. I have a large collection now. For Plexi's my favorite V1 tubes were usually the old Mullard ECC83 I61. A bit less gain than the I63 but a nice thick midrange. For old Blackface Fenders (Twin Reverb specifically) I preferred the RCA Blackplate 7025 (V2 for Reverb Channel Driver). And finally in my little '58 Gibson GA5 I favor an Amperex Bugle Boy ECC83. The Mullard CV4024 (12AT7) military tubes are excellent in the phase inverter position on Marshall's and Fenders. Tungsram 12AX7 tubes are also great. Old smooth plate Telefunkens and 60's Tesla tubes are really stellar in mic preamps. Older circuits tend to utilize the older tubes more. I find that a lot of newer amp circuits don't necessarily need vintage tubes.
I think you'll also be able to find variations within the same brand of tubes from different batches. As usual, great video. This will be a good resource for those searching for good replacement/spare tubes as they get harder to find over time.
Well 4 years later and still loads of valves to be had but the priced are stoopid now...oh and I recomend Brand new valves anf not those 100 year old NOS relics, really...they are dirty and rusty and csn cause your amp to implode and they smell awful too.
Wow, I kind of imagined that the difference was going to be much smaller, but most of these have a unique vibe to them. Really cool video Johan! I always learn something from you!
That little box actually did a good job of showing the differences. I like using 12at7 in the PI of my 100 watt amp, I use all Mullards in the preamp. I used to use a telefunken in V1 that made every guitar sound like it had brand new strings until a sound man spiked the stage voltage turning on the mains during sound check and popped it. If you ever come to California, you're welcome to roll through my 12ax7's that you didn't try in your test; GE, RCA, Sylvania, Tungsram, Flat L, Motorola, Amperex Bugle Boy, Matsushita, Mesa-Sovtek, Triad, CRC, Hammond labeled Mullard, and a couple of the rare ones you tested from the ? factory, those always sound the best! 12ax7, 12AY7, and 12AT7 can all be used interchangeably in most preamp spots to customize the amplification at each stage. They have different voltage amplification factors measured in mU, 12AX7=100mu, 12AT7=60mu, 12AY7=45mu, 12AU7=19mu. Mu only relates to signal voltage, the trade off is current. The lower the mu the more current the tube pushes, that's why I like 12AT7 in the phase inverter if at all, and 12AY7 in V1 of an amp that's too gainy. Some of the old fender tweeds used 12AY7 in V1 to tame them a bit. Each tube stage compounds the amplification of the stage before it, so the earlier in the signal chain it is placed the greater the effect.
God dammit man. Every time i search for anything about guitar amp u always pop up and you never disapoint me. NEVER. LOVE YOUR VIDS DUDE. rigtig god kanal
I watched 20 more videos comparing tubes. Almost concluded that the difference is microscopic/zero but here..... on this amp - it's HUGE! Thanks for making this video!
First off, thanks for taking the time to do this test. I’m sure it was time consuming. That being said, I hope everyone can agree that this is NOT a fair shootout. A players technique will NEVER be exactly the same from moment to moment. The only way to truly hear the difference is to Re-Amp a track so it’s the SAME performance every time. The differences you are hearing are no doubt, at least to some extent, the changes in attack strength and other variations that we all want on LIVE recordings. This is why sample libraries never get all the way there. It’s the same samples over and over. Even in round robin or random. The tiny nuances in attack strength, pick angle, and other variables are what make a live player sound more organic. Testing tube sound by simply playing is the same as testing the same tubes. play for 5 minutes with the same setup, chop it up, and tell me it sounds EXACTLY the same on every take. It won’t. Kudos to you for taking the time to do this video, but it’s not a fair test IMHO.
I think the sleeper tube is the Ruby. For the huge price savings I heard a pretty robust tone with nice harmonics. At the end of riff 3 the signal wanted to run off and dragon tongue lick everything until Johann reeled the feedback in. To me that's playing electric guitar. It should be like trying to ride a wild mustang- luang on and enjoy the ride.
Have you tried well designed EF86 or similar pentode input mic pre? It needs elaborate pad control because modern mic signals are close to line level, when everything is done properly with NFB and all it is hard to say ECC83 is better. Most if not all mic amps need NFB along few other things to sound good, tube type doesn't really matter that much. Guitar amps are different because distortion covers most differences.
This is a great video. Very informative. I learned I dont like JJ tubes at all... and Raytheon was my fav with Mullard coming in 2nd... Philips 3rd... and I didn't like the Mesa Tubes as much as I thought I would. All of my Mesa amps have Mesa Tubes... I'm switching!
I've switched to Tung Sols in my HRD. They're really good clean and they dirty up nicer than the stock tubes, but you can still get loads of headroom if you run them slightly hot.
The Best vintage 12ax7- ecc83 tubes in random order are. Yugo 12ax7 made in Yugoslavia also labeled Edicron or National 12ax7 with long grey plates and round getter for amp heads only ! Phillips 12ax7 ! Tungsram 12ax7 never a bad note and wonderful silky highs unlike any tube ! Long Black Plate RCA and Sylvania , RCA for clean and Sylvania for gain similar to Richie Blackmore tones ! Vintage Mullard ecc83 are great rock tubes or for anything you want ! Honorable mention to the new Tungsol & Genalex gold pin 12ax7 tubes which breakup correctly for guitar tones ! The new JJ 12ax7 tubes are great FX loop send and return function tubes when moderate gain must be used ! The best 12ax7 phase inverter made today is the balanced triode Sovtek long plate 12ax7 tubes ! That PI tube can take high gain and pass on the signal intact to the power tubes without adding bad clipping like other tubes ! If you can not get that tube get a ECC81- 12at7 tube for the PI !
Johan Thank you for another great video, The Raytheon EEC83 Tube impressed me , I will research this tube try to locate some in the US, The Philips Preamp tube sounded great too. Thanks again.
I found myself really loving the Tung-Sol tubes in this shootout. That’s very surprising, because I’ve never really enjoyed this brand for phonon stages. Maybe it’s my ears that have changed. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Johan.... great comparisons. Very helpful. I have some stock Marshall branded tubes in my Marshall Origin 50 watt head. I’m thinking of swapping them out after hearing this video. Keep up the great work..
Easy call! For me and my style of music the top three are the Mullard ecc83, the Philips ecc83 and the Raytheon ecc83 in that order. Thanks for this awesome comparison video. By far the best preamp tube comparison video on TH-cam!
Thank You Johan to prove that I´m not deaf after 35 Rocking Years ! Stunning! I have or had them all... I see my own experience with the different Brands reflected in your Test with a complete different Setup. I expected the JJ to be the worst and very one dimentional, TAD not much better. The old Ruby China nearly on par with the mullard -very rich and 3 dimentional. Tungsol and Audio C if i didn´t now it better sounded both like a rebranded JJ. Missed the old Tesla Jugoslavia witch was an other Trademark tube for later marshalls. Thank You Johan again!
I found out a long time ago, nothing compares to an NOS Mullard, in any Marshall I have put them in, from a 1964 JTM to a modern DSL. Great vid, as usual. Love that little amp!
The ?ECC83 @ 2:15 could be a Tungsram. I'm not shure, though. The Ultron @ 2:30 is a re-branded RFT (from former East Germany). Great in overly bright Marshalls, but the glass is delicate and breaks easily. IIRC, Ultron was the private brand of Bürklin, an electronics retailer in Munich, Germany. Fun fact: RFT tubes were manufactured in communist East Germany, during the cold war. The West German Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung (Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement) bought these tubes, wiped off the branding and re-branded them with the German Eagle, now known among tube aficionados as "The Falcon". For me, Mullard ECC83, Model i63, from the Blackburn factory (B-code) are the bees knees, both in my Marshall and my vintage Hiwatts (notice the plural ;^). If you don't want to spend that kind of money, the modern tubes are mostly quite good.
Man, that’s a lot of work Johan! Thanks for the video. These are extremely nuanced wouldn’t you say. I have a rather large stash of NOS tubes myself and have had great results with their longevity. As far as new production tubes I like JJ in the Power section and Electro Harmonics in the Preamp section. Just my 2c’s... Thanks again my friend
Basically: long plate tubes = more volume, more dynamics, more 3D sound; short plate tubes = less volume, less dynamic, more compressed sound. Tone can be warmer or darker in both kinds of tubes.
There's definitely something wrong with the JJ 1/2, the Mesa and the TAD tubes (which you left as last in the shootout for a reason, I believe): they sound way weaker than all the other tubes, even the ECC81s which should have the lowest gain. Probably some dead tubes or ill-born tubes which should not be considered in this comparison.
Wow Johan though you made that video look seamless I know that is a lot of work to do that type of video. Thanks so much for your time and work that you put into this it was enlightening to say the least. The differences were subtle sometimes and maybe a lot different depending on which tubes you were listening to. The Mullards and Phillips sounded more musical to me then the rest. The Mesa sounded very subdued not what I expected from Mesa. The TAD always seem to be hyped in publications but they also didn't sound like I expected, mellow with not enough clarity. Thanks again Johan for your work you are a stud.
Great video, Thanks for taking the time to do this!! I have to say through my computer speakers that Phillips was impressive!! I was surprised how weak sounding the Marshall tube sounded IMO.
The amount of time you put into these videos so us mere mortals can learn cool stuff is an absolute credit to you mate. Much appreciated, thanks heaps, rock on 🤘.
I kinda did this with preamp tubed pedals. 2 Butler Tube drivers and a Behringer VT911 tube pedal. Have about 15 preamp tubes most 12ax7. Settled on 12av7 for the older 3 knob that's been modded with a bias knob. I'm running it at 18v and using the weakest 12a kinda tubes gives the most headroom before getting too out there. This was fun going through all these tubes with each different pedal. The 5 knob newest Butler didn't change as much as I thought it would. But I like the smaller foot print and the fact that using 18v instead of 9v. Just different than most pedals out there.
One retired technician toght me: tube variance even in the same production batches is insanely huge, and upon first use they start changing/degrading - brands model manufacturing year and so on are all irelevant, unless you are willing to sort through hundreds of tubes (cost prohibitive) you will never find the one witch sounds a like...
@@paulbangash4317, I dear you to buy hilly desired mullard tube, plug it in the identical amp and it will not sound the same as Johans. it most likely sound grate (I do not debate this), but not the same
You can measure tubes and tweak the resistance around them to get very similar behaviour. The really interesting stuff happens in the power section and how they're built. Common or push pull and if real pentodes are used or not. just helping: *dare *great
@@onpsxmember , yes you can, but: * you must have reference tube on hand to compare tunables * how many people mess up with preamp? absolute majority plug in new tube and are done
Tubes matter ! Just got a new Egnater Tweaker112 combo. It came with Ruby tubes and sounded pretty much OK. I replaced the 6V6GT with RCA from the 1960's I put a GE 5751 in V-1 and a Vintage Mullard in V-3 V-2 is the effects loop and so the Ruby is still there. The amp came alive and dynamics are 100% improved. Tubes matter !
My guess is that the Phillips is also from the Blackburn factory in Great Britain (Mullard). There are lots of Phillips branded tubes that are really just Mullards or Amperex, and they go for slightly less. I've found you can tell the difference between the tubes even better being in the room.
I use this video maybe 3 times now that i have gotten tubes, its good comparison video and what i want changes every time for the sound I am trying to get, but have a few favorites, this goes through almost every tube still available, its like the ultimate video lmao
I really like the Valvo ECC83 and ECC81 tubes from the late '50s. They will make almost any amp sound better. When comparing preamp tubes I like to play some sharp lead riffs around the 12th fret to get an idea of how the tube compresses the higher frequencies. The signature of the Valvo tubes is warm midrange with a very smooth and musical compression of these high frequencies. Leads have great clarity and sustain with very little harshness. RCA preamp tubes also sound great with a smooth and musical compression, but with a more open "Fendery" sound.
Extremely well done here. Huge tube roller myself and I am blessed to own many nos preamp tubes including a holy grail “bugleboy” Few completely understand how important what sits in V1 is to the guitar sound chain. This video makes it crystal clear! I’ve never seen those ECC82 btw, need to add a couple of those to my arsenal 🎸 As always great demonstration “riffage” 🥂 cheers
I was surprised how little difference between the 82 and 83, they only have 20% of the power don't they ?btw has anyone tried the Harma branded valves ?I have a couple that are my favourites for clean tones
I really likesd the Mesa Branded Tubes, the Tung-Sol and the Mullard 12AT7( I actually have one of these in my 67 Fender Bandmaster and it sounds great)
Nice demo! I was lucky a couple years ago and bought a box of tubes that had about 70 tubes in it for 25 bucks and got about 8 Telefunken black diamond 12ax7's and a couple Siemens brand 12ax7s as well, nice sounding tubes.
The Micro Terror is not the best amp for such comparison. From what I found in the Internet it is running the tube with plate voltage around 10V, which is far, far away from normal operation. That's the so-called "starving plate" design which can be found in devices such as Chandler Tube Over drive for example. The ECC83/12AX7 tube is not a good choice for such design due to it's high internal resistance and that's the reason why ECC81 and ECC82 sound like they have more gain compared to some ECC83 tubes even thought their gain factor is 60 and 17 respectfully, compared to 100 for the ECC83. (I recall these by memory so there might be a small difference in the numbers) In general tubes such as ECC82 (12AU7) and ECC81 (12AT7) are more appropriate in such application and are supposed to sound better in general. As much as I love your videos I should admit it's not a good comparison as the differences we hear in this video might be completely wiped out in proper tube amp running with high plate voltages. Maybe you can repeat the test with another amp in the future? Anyway, I love what you do, keep posting! :)
I don't think the point was so much the results of the comparison so much as the fact that there are obvious and distinct differences between each of the tubes. From this standpoint, I found the video to be quite informative as I've never had a reason to replace a tube and didn't realize that it would actually have a legitimate tonal impact. That said, I also enjoyed your post as it gave me more stuff to go learn about.
@@franciscodanconia3551 agree, but what I mean is that in normal operation (high voltages) the difference might be (and most probably will be) way smaller than in this video. My personal experience with different pre-tube brands (including NOS) confirms that.
Mullard ecc83 Phillips ecc83 EH ecc83 Audio classic Mullard ecc82 - has good articulation. I could hear the chugging bass notes and the treble high end from the chords very clearly without muddiness or noise. Mullard ecc81 same as above but with even less gain and noise. I'm studying to design my own amplifier. I've autistically studied this video and these are my thoughts. Thank you Johan, I cannot stress how invaluable this is to our community. Please make more. I would love to see a video on all the different preamp and Poweramp tubes, different speaker types. Next I'm studying the best tubes for clean tone and the solid state alternatives. Thanks
...and then the tubes age and change their tone and response once again... Part of why I love tube over solid state is the unpredictability of the things. Two tubes of the same batch may or may not sound like each other. NOS is an open question about how they were treated and stored. Which leaves the only option of trying out as many tubes and tube combinations as you can until you're happy with your sound. I find that process endlessly entertaining and enjoyable.
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
How long until Johan wins the Nobel Prize in Tone?
+1
Like yesterday...
He's The Man of Tube Tunes!
Agree
He has already won it on thecParallel planet Earth.
Riff 2
Mullard - 3:16
Philips - 3:22
Marshall - 3:28
Tung-Sol - 3:34
Audio Classic - 3:41
Ultron - 3:47
JJ ecc83 (2/2)- 3:54
Mullard ecc81 (1/2) - 4:00
Mullard ecc81 (2/2) - 4:07
Ruby - 4:14
Mullard ecc82 (1/2) - 4:20
Electro Harmonix - 4:26
TAD - 4:33
JJ ecc83 (1/2) - 4:40
MESA - 4:46
everyone thumbs up this to keep it at the top of page!
If only all content creators were as thoughtful as you
@@TheXxPSYCHO love your username, is a nice name for a band
Where's the Raytheon example in Riff 2???
quick thumbs this up to keep it at top of page.
RIFFs as thrashings as possibles: all RIFF 2
Mullard - 3:16
Philips - 3:22
Marshall - 3:28
Tung-Sol - 3:34
Audio Classic - 3:41
Ultron - 3:47
JJ ecc83 (2/2)- 3:54
Mullard ecc81 (1/2) - 4:00
Mullard ecc81 (2/2) - 4:07
Ruby - 4:14
Mullard ecc82 (1/2) - 4:20
Electro Harmonix - 4:26
TAD - 4:33
JJ ecc83 (1/2) - 4:40
MESA - 4:46
you should mod this clip to include the Svetlana ecc83 12AX7 or 12AX7A would love to see that with these.
Something tells me Johan spent a lot of his childhood getting in trouble when Mom or Dad came home and saw he'd taken everything they owned apart (lamps, TV's, radio, vacuum cleaner, etc) to see how much better he could make it. Great comparison!! Thank you!!
Hahahahahaha! ;-)
I heard as a kid he once made a vacuum cleaner sound like a plexi ;)
Hey I blew a few fuses trying to kill bugs. I was great at taking things apart, it was another story putting things back together.
@@roncarter2188 lol
@@sneifert1968 it was agreed that the Hoover sounded best so he spent his time modding the oreck to sound like a plexi
Riff 1
Marshall - 1:41
Mullard - 1:47
Tung-Sol - 1:53
Philips - 1:58
JJ ECC83 (2/2) - 2:03
Raytheon - 2:08
? ECC83 - 2:15
Ruby - 2:20
Audio Classic - 2:25
Ultron - 2:30
Mullard ECC81 (1/2) - 2:35
Mullard ECC81 (2/2) - 2:40
Mullard ECC82 (1/2) - 2:45
Mullard ECC82 (2/2) - 2:50
Electro Harmonix - 2:55
JJ ECC83 (1/2) - 3:00
TAD - 3:05
MESA - 3:10
Tung sol and mullard best of the best!
Thanks Serg!
I agree plus the Philips as well!
I agree!!! So happy I found this video!! I was about to buy some jj’s but he’s changed my mind. Buying some Tung-Sol’s
Love Tungsol pre tested for balanced triode 👍
So when it comes to preamp tubes, the biggest variation you hear is the amount of gain coming from the tube. This in turn effects the tone of the amplifier due to how the tube is driving the rest of the components in the signal chain. Everyone understands how the tone of your guitar and amp change when you roll the volume knob on the guitar down right? It's a similar effect with preamp tubes. Lower gain will make the amp sound a little different than higher gain. The frequencies aren't necesarily different, that is, the tube itself is no different in it's fundamentals and harmonics and the rest compared to others, but all those factors are altered with less or more gain. Less gain sounds thinner with less signal punching out the upper harmonics. More gain means there will be richer upper harmonics and it'll sound fuller and thicker and maybe more dynamic. Companies like Mesa and Marshall have such extreme gain stages that they typically have lower gain ECC83's/12ax7s to maintain dynamic control in the multiple gain stages of say a rectifier or TSL100 etc. Fenders will have higher gain 12ax7s in V1 because the preamp gain is so much lower and you need that punch. You can really hear this if you roll ECC81, ECC82 and ECC83 tubes through V1 of a black face fender amp. Personally I put an ECC82 into V2 of my two channel fenders to lower the gain a bit and create more dynamic control over the signal. More gain is not always better in a preamp circuit depending on the amplifier. If you stick the highest gain ecc83/12ax7 into V2 or V3 of a dual rec, it can become an uncontrolable mess at half way on the channel gain control. Whereas on a plexy for instance, you may want the highest gain ecc83 in v1 because the amplifier doesn't have much additional gain in the preamp circuit so you want to drive the power amp section as hard as you can to achieve saturation. In this example, you can really hear the gain differences from tube to tube, but less so the tonal differences until the lower output tubes are demonstrated.
Thanks Colin, yeah the difference in gain is indeed the most prominent one
Nerd
Well said too many people believe magical fairy stories and have no idea about the physics of vacuum tubes
Dude plz....its gonna take a while to digest all that info...and i was about to order some new tubes!!
I think plate length makes a difference, although it might be psychoacoustics at work. Longer plates seem to have a fuller frequency response while shorter plates seem to give a darker, mid-humped sound.
I just witnessed a labor of love like I have never seen before.
Tung Sol seemed consistently better for my old ears. The Mullards were a close second.
Thanks Roy ;-)
I can't believe how far you go to compare things. It's a huge work and it's much appreciated.
That Philips was special. Mullard was good too.
I agree, Phillips ECC83 then the Mullard ECC83. I tried the Marshall ECC83 and the JJ ECC83 on my valvestate and the Marshall is very noticeably more bassy while the JJ is more trebley and a bit louder, me and my bro prefer the Marshall, in this video the extra bass isnt so obvious. The ? ECC83 sounds good too.
Loads of gain and lively, had a gnarly spirit about it! Both Mullards were great too.
Mullard, Tung-Sol, then Phillips. That’s what I liked. Thank you johan for taking the time to do this!
A little help on identifying what these tubes really are...
The "Raytheon" is a Japanese Toshiba. It is not the US-made Raytheon
The "?" or unknown tube is a Tungsram
The "Ultron" is a RFT
The "Ruby" is Chinese. So is the "TAD"
The "Mullard" ECC82 #2 is really an Ei, from Yugoslavia
There are four JJs: two are labeled as such, one is "Marshall"-labeled, and the other is "Mesa"
The Philips is a long-plate (17mm), which are generally more articulate and are highly desired and expensive (if they don't suffer from microphony)
I wonder how this changes everyone's perspective?
Thanks for informing me, didn’t realize „Mesa“ tubes were overpriced JJ‘s. I got duped into buying some!
I liked the Raytheon a lot, just there is no demo of it on Riff 2?
I like long plate tubes in V1 of my amps. Mullard being my favorite in old Marshall amps. Although RFT is hard to beat in high gain amps.
@@revprs Long plates also do well in PI. Where everyone says they make no difference to the tone..but they completely do.
@@cgavin1 i totally agree. I like to use the LPS and save the old ones for the pre amp. Unless it makes a dramatic difference. Usually the LPS handles it well enough.
That mullard 12ax7 is a beast! Very lively compared to the others in my opinion all though the Phillips didn't sound bad either to my ears
Thanks Greg
@@JohanSegeborn The Mullards have that solid, biting, focused midrange. It really stands out here.
Philips is similar in every way to Mullard. They are both very well made and robust.
Phillips Miniwatt are Mullard mostly. Phillips bought them out and just rebranded the Mullard production.
@@aquilarossa5191 I remember reading something about that online if I remember correctly alot of tube manufacturers did that in one form or the other I've also read brimar were also rebranded mullards or should I say made in the mullard factory I have a miniwatt meshplate ef86 in my ac15 that i swore sounded just like the mullard meshplate ef86 now I know why
Cheers
Wow, what a lot of work. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Tommy!
2021, I watch you a lot [Ontario]... Gibson Grabber/Ripper a fav, thanks for your hard work on this... you saved me a ton of time..
Thank you for taking the time doing all this. This helped me decide about the V1 tube on my amp. Tung Sol all the way up!
I am a Marshall user and I just went through this process trying to optimize a Peavey Delta Blues 1x15" (same circuit as the Classic 30 but with tremolo). The distortion channel's clipping sounded like total crap, but now it actually sounds pretty close to a good Marshall. After hours of swapping tubes, here's what I learned. No two 12AX7's sound exactly the same regardless of the brand, model or specs. Such is the way it is. Now, assuming that your pickup is balanced under the strings correctly so that you can hear each string evenly and you're getting the magnetic response you want, aside from things like the gain, tonal character or if there's microphonic leakage in each tube you try, the most important thing to listen for in any tube is that it makes your high notes sound smooth and fat with good sustain. Even you're strictly a rhythm player, I would recommend this. There is no measurement to predict this, they just either do or they don't. The way a tube sounds in V1 is usually the best representation of how the tube really sounds and performs, so I start assessing them there. It really helps to number all your tubes and make some notes on them with a Sharpie. If you don't... I wish you luck. After weeding out what you didn't like in V1, take those and start trying them in the phase inverter. The PI will radically change the way the amp sounds, not so much from the audio characteristics of the tube, but how it changes the voltage operation and drives the power section. It's the most radical change you can make in the amp. Once you hit upon something you like, then you can go back and swap out different tubes in the preamp and "tweak". Now remember, whatever you try, as long as your high notes are nice and flutey, not thin and ice-picky, the rest is a matter of taste or what suits your needs. Old-school amps are easy, just one tube in the pre, but in multi-gain-stage amps like my Delta Blues, I found that you should start with a lower gain in V1 as to not oversaturate V2 and make that harsh, blurry clipping that many complain about. All the tubes I tried were standard JJ's and there was one that was extra "midrangey", that went to V2, and a super-hot, nasty, ballsy one (not good for V1/V2) went into the PI and really helped to drive the power section and warm things up. Other amps might respond differently and require an opposite approach with a super-hot V1... whatever works. I don't recommend substituting 12AU7's or 12AT7's in place of a 12AX7, it can work sometimes in certain amps but can also damage other amps. If you really need less gain in one spot for some reason, try a 5751, but they are inconsistent and not always a guitar friendly in tone or response. Happy tweaking!!!
I've always favered mullards as being the best all rounders and listening to your demonstration they held up to my expectations keep up the good work
Thanks Clive!
Put a NOS British Mullard ECC81 in the PI in a Fender amp and be amazed. $20 a pop..
For me the electro harmonix it’s the best!
That Philips. Wow
Thanks Derek!
Amen ..... that philips so rich.....
yea the phillips rocked man
Yeah. Phillips was nice too. Also Mullard and Raytheon.
I found some to buy here in Brazil, Phillips ECC83 miniwatt, from the 60's... can I go for it? the price is great.
www.regence.com.br/valvula-12ax7-philips-miniwatt-51524123xJM
May I give you suggestion ?
For this kind of test, I think you can use a looper pedal. With that pedal, you'll eliminate any variation in fretting and picking hand.
YES loop it with a test signal
As long as today’s loop pedals both put out an equivalent signal and record at a very high sample rate.
or re amp it
If everyone at Volvo were as cool as Johan, nobody would lust after Porsches any more.
Hahaha! Cheers David ;-)
3:21 that Philips! Admit it, Johan, you were on your way out of the gate man! That sound and an SG in hand... perhaps a frosty beverage was the only missing piece lol This is another incredible video - I've watched it already a dozen times. Thank you so much for your time, talent, and sharing this with the world. Cheers!
Used to spend so much time buying and trying preamp tubes. I have a large collection now. For Plexi's my favorite V1 tubes were usually the old Mullard ECC83 I61. A bit less gain than the I63 but a nice thick midrange. For old Blackface Fenders (Twin Reverb specifically) I preferred the RCA Blackplate 7025 (V2 for Reverb Channel Driver). And finally in my little '58 Gibson GA5 I favor an Amperex Bugle Boy ECC83. The Mullard CV4024 (12AT7) military tubes are excellent in the phase inverter position on Marshall's and Fenders. Tungsram 12AX7 tubes are also great. Old smooth plate Telefunkens and 60's Tesla tubes are really stellar in mic preamps. Older circuits tend to utilize the older tubes more. I find that a lot of newer amp circuits don't necessarily need vintage tubes.
Damn that Raytheon on the last riff! I think the Ruby, Marshall, and Philips sounded the best. Great video and playing as always, cheers!
I think you'll also be able to find variations within the same brand of tubes from different batches. As usual, great video. This will be a good resource for those searching for good replacement/spare tubes as they get harder to find over time.
Thanks Simon, glad to hear that!
Well 4 years later and still loads of valves to be had but the priced are stoopid now...oh and I recomend Brand new valves anf not those 100 year old NOS relics, really...they are dirty and rusty and csn cause your amp to implode and they smell awful too.
Amazing demo!!! You have that amp sounding so good. I had one and basically chucked it. Haha. Crazy how much those tubes changed the sound.
Wow, I kind of imagined that the difference was going to be much smaller, but most of these have a unique vibe to them. Really cool video Johan! I always learn something from you!
Tungsol & Ruby for the Winner they both Sounds Fuller! Anyway the real Winner here is Johan,,for the great job he’s done yesssssssss
Between this video and your Tubescreamer/Analogman Mod comparison video, you have helped me substantially. Thanks for making these videos!
That little box actually did a good job of showing the differences. I like using 12at7 in the PI of my 100 watt amp, I use all Mullards in the preamp. I used to use a telefunken in V1 that made every guitar sound like it had brand new strings until a sound man spiked the stage voltage turning on the mains during sound check and popped it. If you ever come to California, you're welcome to roll through my 12ax7's that you didn't try in your test; GE, RCA, Sylvania, Tungsram, Flat L, Motorola, Amperex Bugle Boy, Matsushita, Mesa-Sovtek, Triad, CRC, Hammond labeled Mullard, and a couple of the rare ones you tested from the ? factory, those always sound the best! 12ax7, 12AY7, and 12AT7 can all be used interchangeably in most preamp spots to customize the amplification at each stage. They have different voltage amplification factors measured in mU, 12AX7=100mu, 12AT7=60mu, 12AY7=45mu, 12AU7=19mu. Mu only relates to signal voltage, the trade off is current. The lower the mu the more current the tube pushes, that's why I like 12AT7 in the phase inverter if at all, and 12AY7 in V1 of an amp that's too gainy. Some of the old fender tweeds used 12AY7 in V1 to tame them a bit. Each tube stage compounds the amplification of the stage before it, so the earlier in the signal chain it is placed the greater the effect.
God dammit man. Every time i search for anything about guitar amp u always pop up and you never disapoint me. NEVER. LOVE YOUR VIDS DUDE. rigtig god kanal
Thanks man, I’m so glad to hear that!
Thanks for the long cool 😎 review
I watched 20 more videos comparing tubes. Almost concluded that the difference is microscopic/zero but here..... on this amp - it's HUGE! Thanks for making this video!
First off, thanks for taking the time to do this test. I’m sure it was time consuming. That being said, I hope everyone can agree that this is NOT a fair shootout. A players technique will NEVER be exactly the same from moment to moment. The only way to truly hear the difference is to Re-Amp a track so it’s the SAME performance every time. The differences you are hearing are no doubt, at least to some extent, the changes in attack strength and other variations that we all want on LIVE recordings. This is why sample libraries never get all the way there. It’s the same samples over and over. Even in round robin or random. The tiny nuances in attack strength, pick angle, and other variables are what make a live player sound more organic. Testing tube sound by simply playing is the same as testing the same tubes. play for 5 minutes with the same setup, chop it up, and tell me it sounds EXACTLY the same on every take. It won’t. Kudos to you for taking the time to do this video, but it’s not a fair test IMHO.
stunned to find out the Ruby ecc83 really shone for me and the tad , EH and Mesa tubes sounded dire, thanks for this Johan
I think the sleeper tube is the Ruby. For the huge price savings I heard a pretty robust tone with nice harmonics. At the end of riff 3 the signal wanted to run off and dragon tongue lick everything until Johann reeled the feedback in. To me that's playing electric guitar. It should be like trying to ride a wild mustang- luang on and enjoy the ride.
Good Video John ....not Many People are aware ..about specific tubes and how they Differentiate from each other ....keep them coming John thx
Thanks Johan. You are my go-to TH-cam gear comparison channel
Great job & congratulations on 100k subscribers 🎸🥁
Thank you for the magnificent demonstration .....you show the entire sonic possibilities of the most important part of the tube amp.....blown away
Mullard 12AX7 (ECC83) all day! Even for Vocals via Mic Pre.
Have you tried well designed EF86 or similar pentode input mic pre? It needs elaborate pad control because modern mic signals are close to line level, when everything is done properly with NFB and all it is hard to say ECC83 is better. Most if not all mic amps need NFB along few other things to sound good, tube type doesn't really matter that much. Guitar amps are different because distortion covers most differences.
@@codaalive5076 thanks
Of course! Sounds like plexi!
Tung-sol and Mullard ecc83 for me...imho...
Thanks Vidman! It’s almost impossible to not sound plexi through that cab though ;-)
This is a great video. Very informative. I learned I dont like JJ tubes at all... and Raytheon was my fav with Mullard coming in 2nd... Philips 3rd... and I didn't like the Mesa Tubes as much as I thought I would. All of my Mesa amps have Mesa Tubes... I'm switching!
Mesa sounded like a rebadged JJ. TAD sounded similar too.
I've switched to Tung Sols in my HRD. They're really good clean and they dirty up nicer than the stock tubes, but you can still get loads of headroom if you run them slightly hot.
If I’m not mistaken, that mystery ECC83 is a Hungarian made Tungsram, a personal favorite of mine, and what came stock in my 78 2203... great tube
I like them as well, great tubes.
I'm soo glad you put out this video. You're always such a even toned gentleman and super knowledgable about amps. You're the man Johan.
Johan thank you for all of these excellent videos! You are answering questions that are all but impossible for the rest of us. I owe you a beer...
The Best vintage 12ax7- ecc83 tubes in random order are.
Yugo 12ax7 made in Yugoslavia also labeled Edicron or National 12ax7 with long grey plates and round getter for amp heads only !
Phillips 12ax7 !
Tungsram 12ax7 never a bad note and wonderful silky highs unlike any tube !
Long Black Plate RCA and Sylvania , RCA for clean and Sylvania for gain similar to Richie Blackmore tones !
Vintage Mullard ecc83 are great rock tubes or for anything you want !
Honorable mention to the new Tungsol & Genalex gold pin 12ax7 tubes which breakup correctly for guitar tones !
The new JJ 12ax7 tubes are great FX loop send and return function tubes when moderate gain must be used !
The best 12ax7 phase inverter made today is the balanced triode Sovtek long plate 12ax7 tubes !
That PI tube can take high gain and pass on the signal intact to the power tubes without adding bad clipping like other tubes !
If you can not get that tube get a ECC81- 12at7 tube for the PI !
A great way to start the day.Thanks Johan...I didn't realize how nasal the JJ's are relative to most the others.
Thanks Lu!
Nice Job. I love the Raytheon
Great video. I have been wanting to see a tube comparison for a long time. Cheers Johan. Will be checking out other vids I must have missed them
Johan Thank you for another great video, The Raytheon EEC83 Tube impressed me , I will research this tube try to locate some in the US, The Philips Preamp tube sounded great too. Thanks again.
I found myself really loving the Tung-Sol tubes in this shootout. That’s very surprising, because I’ve never really enjoyed this brand for phonon stages. Maybe it’s my ears that have changed. Thanks for sharing!
Ruby! Crazy. Sounds great in this amp. Thanks Johan!
Thanks Johan.... great comparisons. Very helpful. I have some stock Marshall branded tubes in my Marshall Origin 50 watt head. I’m thinking of swapping them out after hearing this video. Keep up the great work..
My Go-To Video when comparing Tubes
Easy call! For me and my style of music the top three are the Mullard ecc83, the Philips ecc83 and the Raytheon ecc83 in that order. Thanks for this awesome comparison video. By far the best preamp tube comparison video on TH-cam!
Thank You Johan to prove that I´m not deaf after 35 Rocking Years !
Stunning! I have or had them all... I see my own experience with the different Brands reflected in your Test with a complete different Setup. I expected the JJ to be the worst and very one dimentional, TAD not much better. The old Ruby China nearly on par with the mullard -very rich and 3 dimentional. Tungsol and Audio C if i didn´t now it better sounded both like a rebranded JJ. Missed the old Tesla Jugoslavia witch was an other Trademark tube for later marshalls. Thank You Johan again!
I found out a long time ago, nothing compares to an NOS Mullard, in any Marshall I have put them in, from a 1964 JTM to a modern DSL. Great vid, as usual. Love that little amp!
Killer comparison. thanks for the work. great stuff. The Phillips ECC83 and that firts mullard sounded fantastic.
The ?ECC83 @ 2:15 could be a Tungsram. I'm not shure, though.
The Ultron @ 2:30 is a re-branded RFT (from former East Germany). Great in overly bright Marshalls, but the glass is delicate and breaks easily. IIRC, Ultron was the private brand of Bürklin, an electronics retailer in Munich, Germany.
Fun fact: RFT tubes were manufactured in communist East Germany, during the cold war. The West German Bundesamt für Wehrtechnik und Beschaffung (Federal Office of Defense Technology and Procurement) bought these tubes, wiped off the branding and re-branded them with the German Eagle, now known among tube aficionados as "The Falcon".
For me, Mullard ECC83, Model i63, from the Blackburn factory (B-code) are the bees knees, both in my Marshall and my vintage Hiwatts (notice the plural ;^). If you don't want to spend that kind of money, the modern tubes are mostly quite good.
I love the way how each tube has a different flavour. Excellent demo as usual :-)
thanks for taking the time to make this extensive video :)
Best test of the Orange Micro Terror with rolling various tubes thru amp!
Man, that’s a lot of work Johan! Thanks for the video. These are extremely nuanced wouldn’t you say. I have a rather large stash of NOS tubes myself and have had great results with their longevity. As far as new production tubes I like JJ in the Power section and Electro Harmonics in the Preamp section. Just my 2c’s... Thanks again my friend
Thanks my friend!
I always hear good things about EHX tubes, specifically Dr. Z mentions them in one of his videos.
Basically: long plate tubes = more volume, more dynamics, more 3D sound; short plate tubes = less volume, less dynamic, more compressed sound. Tone can be warmer or darker in both kinds of tubes.
There's definitely something wrong with the JJ 1/2, the Mesa and the TAD tubes (which you left as last in the shootout for a reason, I believe): they sound way weaker than all the other tubes, even the ECC81s which should have the lowest gain. Probably some dead tubes or ill-born tubes which should not be considered in this comparison.
Yep, totally agree. They sounded weak as hell!
Yes me too !!
Why is there a JJ 1/2 and 2/2??? Looks like the same ECC83s.
@ArsonArt 12AX7s should have a similar range of gains. If a 12AX7 has say the gain of a 12AU7, there’s something wrong with it.
yes, you're right. It's not possible, JJ's do not sound like that - at all
1st 2 riffs gave me so many song writing ideas. Thanks! And now I want a Micro Terror.
Wow Johan though you made that video look seamless I know that is a lot of work to do that type of video. Thanks so much for your time and work that you put into this it was enlightening to say the least. The differences were subtle sometimes and maybe a lot different depending on which tubes you were listening to. The Mullards and Phillips sounded more musical to me then the rest. The Mesa sounded very subdued not what I expected from Mesa. The TAD always seem to be hyped in publications but they also didn't sound like I expected, mellow with not enough clarity. Thanks again Johan for your work you are a stud.
Great video, Thanks for taking the time to do this!! I have to say through my computer speakers that Phillips was impressive!! I was surprised how weak sounding the Marshall tube sounded IMO.
I love these kinds of comparisons, thanks Johan!
Das es endlich mal ein aussagekräftiger Test. TOP!!
The amount of time you put into these videos so us mere mortals can learn cool stuff is an absolute credit to you mate. Much appreciated, thanks heaps, rock on 🤘.
I kinda did this with preamp tubed pedals. 2 Butler Tube drivers and a Behringer VT911 tube pedal. Have about 15 preamp tubes most 12ax7. Settled on 12av7 for the older 3 knob that's been modded with a bias knob. I'm running it at 18v and using the weakest 12a kinda tubes gives the most headroom before getting too out there. This was fun going through all these tubes with each different pedal. The 5 knob newest Butler didn't change as much as I thought it would. But I like the smaller foot print and the fact that using 18v instead of 9v. Just different than most pedals out there.
The Ruby is my favorite for sure - that's the one I want.
Did you get them?.. what kind of amp do you use?
One retired technician toght me: tube variance even in the same production batches is insanely huge, and upon first use they start changing/degrading - brands model manufacturing year and so on are all irelevant, unless you are willing to sort through hundreds of tubes (cost prohibitive) you will never find the one witch sounds a like...
Arturas NX7 that is complete rubbish.
@@paulbangash4317, I dear you to buy hilly desired mullard tube, plug it in the identical amp and it will not sound the same as Johans. it most likely sound grate (I do not debate this), but not the same
You can measure tubes and tweak the resistance around them to get very similar behaviour. The really interesting stuff happens in the power section and how they're built. Common or push pull and if real pentodes are used or not.
just helping: *dare *great
@@onpsxmember , yes you can, but:
* you must have reference tube on hand to compare tunables
* how many people mess up with preamp? absolute majority plug in new tube and are done
I find this very true, IME
Tubes matter !
Just got a new Egnater Tweaker112 combo.
It came with Ruby tubes and sounded pretty much OK.
I replaced the 6V6GT with RCA from the 1960's
I put a GE 5751 in V-1 and a Vintage Mullard in V-3
V-2 is the effects loop and so the Ruby is still there.
The amp came alive and dynamics are 100% improved.
Tubes matter !
Thanks Johan !!!!! Man those Mullard's sounded awesome !!!!!!
Oh my this is the best comparison I have heard I could actually tell a difference .. thanks !
My guess is that the Phillips is also from the Blackburn factory in Great Britain (Mullard). There are lots of Phillips branded tubes that are really just Mullards or Amperex, and they go for slightly less.
I've found you can tell the difference between the tubes even better being in the room.
Johan, you are completely crazy. I love it!
Mullard, Phillips, Raytheon
Gold, Silver, Bronze
Thank you all for participating.
I liked the Philips! Cheers from Stockholm
Thanks, Johan. Another great and helpful demo vid. Much appreciated 🤘✌️🤙
I use this video maybe 3 times now that i have gotten tubes, its good comparison video and what i want changes every time for the sound I am trying to get, but have a few favorites, this goes through almost every tube still available, its like the ultimate video lmao
I really like the Valvo ECC83 and ECC81 tubes from the late '50s. They will make almost any amp sound better. When comparing preamp tubes I like to play some sharp lead riffs around the 12th fret to get an idea of how the tube compresses the higher frequencies. The signature of the Valvo tubes is warm midrange with a very smooth and musical compression of these high frequencies. Leads have great clarity and sustain with very little harshness. RCA preamp tubes also sound great with a smooth and musical compression, but with a more open "Fendery" sound.
Johan, I didn't even know what was in half my amps until today. Spun all of them around and checked if I had any on the list!
The Mulard ECC81 is a great sounding tube. Especially as the first preamp tube or as a phase inverter as well!
Interesting take. What amps do you use .. what’s your favorite combo of tubes
The MYSTERY TUBE by far sounded the best,, we should all get them. :)
Extremely well done here. Huge tube roller myself and I am blessed to own many nos preamp tubes including a holy grail “bugleboy” Few completely understand how important what sits in V1 is to the guitar sound chain. This video makes it crystal clear! I’ve never seen those ECC82 btw, need to add a couple of those to my arsenal 🎸 As always great demonstration “riffage” 🥂 cheers
Glad to hear it, Cheers!
I was surprised how little difference between the 82 and 83, they only have 20% of the power don't they ?btw has anyone tried the Harma branded valves ?I have a couple that are my favourites for clean tones
I heard otherwise. This test showed me how unimportant tube choice is.
I really likesd the Mesa Branded Tubes, the Tung-Sol and the Mullard 12AT7( I actually have one of these in my 67 Fender Bandmaster and it sounds great)
Thanks, I liked the 12AT7 a lot too
That Micro Terror is a great little amp, isn't it? I was amazed when I first plugged it in!
Nice demo! I was lucky a couple years ago and bought a box of tubes that had about 70 tubes in it for 25 bucks and got about 8 Telefunken black diamond 12ax7's and a couple Siemens brand 12ax7s as well, nice sounding tubes.
The Micro Terror is not the best amp for such comparison. From what I found in the Internet it is running the tube with plate voltage around 10V, which is far, far away from normal operation. That's the so-called "starving plate" design which can be found in devices such as Chandler Tube Over drive for example. The ECC83/12AX7 tube is not a good choice for such design due to it's high internal resistance and that's the reason why ECC81 and ECC82 sound like they have more gain compared to some ECC83 tubes even thought their gain factor is 60 and 17 respectfully, compared to 100 for the ECC83. (I recall these by memory so there might be a small difference in the numbers)
In general tubes such as ECC82 (12AU7) and ECC81 (12AT7) are more appropriate in such application and are supposed to sound better in general.
As much as I love your videos I should admit it's not a good comparison as the differences we hear in this video might be completely wiped out in proper tube amp running with high plate voltages. Maybe you can repeat the test with another amp in the future?
Anyway, I love what you do, keep posting! :)
Good info! That answered my questions about the gain discrepancy.
I don't think the point was so much the results of the comparison so much as the fact that there are obvious and distinct differences between each of the tubes. From this standpoint, I found the video to be quite informative as I've never had a reason to replace a tube and didn't realize that it would actually have a legitimate tonal impact. That said, I also enjoyed your post as it gave me more stuff to go learn about.
@@franciscodanconia3551 agree, but what I mean is that in normal operation (high voltages) the difference might be (and most probably will be) way smaller than in this video. My personal experience with different pre-tube brands (including NOS) confirms that.
Thank you!! It's very useful!! Here in Brazil we don't have money to buy differents tubes to test. So the video will help us to make the best choice.
Thanks man, glad the video is put to good use!
Mullard ecc83
Phillips ecc83
EH ecc83
Audio classic
Mullard ecc82 - has good articulation. I could hear the chugging bass notes and the treble high end from the chords very
clearly without muddiness or noise.
Mullard ecc81 same as above but with even less gain and noise.
I'm studying to design my own amplifier. I've autistically studied this video and these are my thoughts.
Thank you Johan, I cannot stress how invaluable this is to our community. Please make more.
I would love to see a video on all the different preamp and Poweramp tubes, different speaker types. Next I'm studying the best tubes for clean tone and the solid state alternatives.
Thanks
...and then the tubes age and change their tone and response once again...
Part of why I love tube over solid state is the unpredictability of the things. Two tubes of the same batch may or may not sound like each other. NOS is an open question about how they were treated and stored.
Which leaves the only option of trying out as many tubes and tube combinations as you can until you're happy with your sound.
I find that process endlessly entertaining and enjoyable.
best tube comparison hands down.
Philips ECC83, Mullard ECC83, 12AX7 sound the best to my ears
Best comparison i have seen, really helpfull. Thanks