On Worldbuilding: How an Empire Falls? [ Game of Thrones l Avatar l Byzantine ]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
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Credit for Roman Empire map: ISO Design
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![On Worldbuilding: The Rise of an Empire? [ Romans l Fire Nation l Napoleon ] PART 2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1yu5MHeLMEY/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Worldbuilding: The Rise of an Empire? [ Romans l Fire Nation l Napoleon ] PART 2](/img/tr.png)
![On Writing: Killing Characters! [ Harry Potter | Stephen King | Terabithia ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/treB4kuyMHk/mqdefault.jpg)
![On Worldbuilding: Monarchy [ French Revolution | British Empire | Chinese Dynasties ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8o0X8TE4aPk/mqdefault.jpg)
And so our trilogy on empires comes to a close. I am exhausted. Anyways, go check out Squarespace (squarespace.com/hellofutureme), but also, come check out the site I've built myself: timhicksonyt.com It's still pretty rudimentary, and that's because I want to know what *you* want on there. I'll be featuring snippets of work from members of community there, and there instructions on how to submit on the site. Hope you've enjoyed this trilogy as much as I have!
Stay nerdy
~ Tim
I've notice that stargate series have not been reference in your videos.
Hello Future Me you should check One Piece there is an arc That kinda revoled around empire
thank you for posting them. they are extremly helpful.
I don't know if you noticed but in the last episode of season 6 were krago was killed by drago bludfist due to his failure, the camera moves up to the bridge were drago calls MILDEW. My question is if that is really mildew and did he really betray berk once more?
Have the community post their works on the site, and have mishka photo templates that the community can use to help illustrate their stories. For example have a god emperor mishka, a peasent mishka, and a soldier mishka for people that wrote an empire story.
Why is the God-Emperor in the thumbnail of a video about empires falling?
BLASPHEMY, I SAY.
THE IMPERIUM SHALL NEVER FALL.
Sultan
If anything, the imperium despite its flaws has survived longer than most fictional empires.
Well, Guilliman did say in a speech in the Horus Heresy that the Imperium would endure for at least "ten thousand times ten thousand years, until the end of time and the extinction of mortal flesh."
the imperium still has almost 100 million years left to go before it fills that quota, and even if it degrades and decays all the while, it will still endure.
Cadia STANDS.
FOR THE EMPEROR!
LOKEN LIVES!
Better just lay the exterminatus down upon this heretic
ALRIGHT FIRE!!!!!!!!!
How do empires fall?
Mehrunes Dagon: *heavy breathing*
This comment doesn't have nearly enough upvotes
He didn't kill the Empire. He just killed off the Septim bloodline.
Ebon Lotus “When the dragon dies, the Empire dies... So long as the blood of the Dragon Prince runs strong in her rulers, the glory of the Empire shall extend in unbroken years.” -prophecy of Oddfrid White-Lip
@@christophergarcia1101 The Empire is still standing after 400 years since Martin died. It's not badass as it use to, but it's still around.
@@noxflo897 Exactly, Dragon wants to know how to do that
"23 democratic stabs to the chest" gonna quote that when we get to Caesar in my Ancient Rome class
How is this comment Two days old?
Oh hey fancy seeing you here
Magic.
romarssi everything!! I'm shooting in the dark with a bow with a string made of rubber while giant gushes of wind blow at my arrow here, but I think he changed the date on his computer and that threw the browser off.
Ah TH-cam your algorithm system is so bad even the date is off can't wait for this vid for ten years
Ah yes, the Summer empire. The greatest empire ever known to grade schoolers, only to be defeated by their eventual Fall.
Ayy!
Get out.
I was there at the Fall of August. The teachers, there...there were too many of them. They overran us within minutes, and by the end of the battle, me and my squad were brought into class as POWs. But one day...Summer will rise again
@@samuelwithers2221 The Summer rebellion begins tonight. We now outnumber the teachers, and are better armed. Fight brothers! FIGHT FOR THE SUMMER HOMELAND!
@@harperthegoblin *VIVA LA RESISTANCE*
This is why I liked the Star Wars EU as a kid: the books and comics showed that there were another twenty one years of war after RotJ; fighting between several factions before there was finally a brief peace in the galaxy. And the Empire was still around at the end of it, living [uneasily] side by side with the New Republic and plenty of grizzled veterans weren’t happy about it. Very tense. Very realistic. Loved it!
Same thing happened in the canon, and led to the first order.
julius koschny I didn’t mean to insinuate that Tim doesn’t know his stuff; I just meant that the realistic repercussions of the Empire’s fall were why I liked the Star Wars EU. There’s too much material for [most] people to have read it all. I haven’t.
In the new Star Wars Canon the emperor instructs the military to destroy the empire. The military does not fully archive this, but still manage to cause large amounts of damage to some worlds as well as destroying monuments and parts of the industry.
Also some high ranking military official (cannot recall the name) let most ships of the navy (hundrets of ISDs and a few SSDs) with its crew purposefull get destroyed by the new republic because he did not trust them.
@@RexOrbis no it didn't, the empire was beaten in one year in Disney Canon instead of over time which is one of many reasons I prefer the EU to canon
@@comandercarnis Still was a period when the empire still was, handled in much the same way. Also, you can't act like there is just one legends canon.
Listening to this two years in the future and hearing this line dropped: "Authors tend to relegate the effects of disease to history or fantasy, but microbial pandemics are far from irrelevant." I know they are now 😩😭
Right?
Learned this the hard way 😷😷
Sometimes foreshadowing is quite obvious
Take a drink everytime a Sith Empire falls.
I count about 7 or 8 times across Legends History.
The Sith empire(all of them) fell because of infigthing and lack of plot armor
*This time we are going to make it right*
So like 3 drinks
@@bruhmieter5688Not really
The Galactic Republic has them beat
*Waits for 40k fans to descend in the comment section via drop pods*
We have arrived and now we perform our charge...
That didn't take long
Only 650 guardsmen died
@Elysium 43 ain!
"Oh-uh..."
"Don't tell me, the Empire of Man has landed on our planet."
"Yep"
"They gonna call an Exterminatus? "
"Most likely."
"... Bring it on!"
We were always here (Snickers Inquisitoriously)
Hello Future Me: "Another kind of succession crisis is where the Empire purposefully divides itself amongst its successors. Because...eh...why? Just why?"
Me: Remembers the Trauma that is CK2. *Gavelkind.*
ahhhhhhh the Horror
Actually dividing yourself like that is the only way it can end sort of peacefully. However even then it's usually not without violence as proved by both Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union (many haven't heard of the Caucasian wars but they killed more people than the Balkan wars).
@@MrMarinus18 not peacefully? If I recall russian history correctly, almost every death of a knyaz was followed by his sons killing eachother, after only one is left.
Before Mongols, that is.
All praise Primogeniture! With heir designation so that genius fourth son can inherit!
I was looking for this comment. I'm kinda sad this is the only Paradox reference in the highlighted comments.
"Microbial pandemics are far from irrelevant"
Who else is watching this in 2020???
I went looking for your comment when I got to that point.
@@VayaKahvi same here
2021 gang
@@Schut_gorokhoviy is this the end of the american empire?
2021
Last time I was this early they called it the Roman Republic
Yep. It was the Roman Empire until Augustus.
@@whenthedustfallsaway whaaaaaat?,
It was the republic. Augustus created the empire.
W
While the stress of a longer video series is unfortunate, the end result is incredible. I found myself looking forward to the next parts. So, if you could, more things like this - produced over a longer period of time, not as soon as humanly possible without sleep, as to be less stressful and more sustainable - that'd be fantastic. Stay nerdy! ...And healthy. Seriously, Tim, please take care of yourself.
Thank you for both your kind praise and genuine concern. I find them the most fulfilling of my content, even if they are the most exhausting. So glad you enjoy them!
~ Tim
To be fair, the empire lost: their emperor, 2 planets worth of people, however much money it costs to build 2 death stars, a sizable number of ships (+ the super star destroyer), and several high ranking admirals and some of it was all at once. Even if the Empire won after DS 2 blew up, the Empire might still have fallen.
In the comic's there was a secession crisis
@@allykat5899 But not the movies.
@@shawnjavery
That's largely due to the fact that the movies take place years and sometimes decades apart from eachother. Basically, there probably was a succession crisis in the movies, but we don't see it because it's already over when the story starts.
@@josh-oo Its unlikely for a succession crisis to be over that fast. Especially on the scale of an intergalactic space empire.
I just don't think the star wars movies have a well developed world, especially the non-prequels. I think they are good movies, but that comes from good directing and a good score, not because it's written well.
@@shawnjavery
Well, they have a system of government they know works better that's still in a lot of people's recent memory, so I imagine it'd be somewhat easier than in real life, where empires last several generations at least. That, and a lot of high-ranking members of the Imperial Senate were secretly financing and supplying the Rebellion all along, so returning to a pre-Empire style of government was the plan all along, and therefore they most likely had plans to make the transition easier.
"all empires fall" tell that to the imperium of Man
It's been in the process of falling for 10s of thousands of years.
@@OneEyeShadow heretic
yes inquisitor this comment
🎵Lets be Xenophobic🎵
In the words of the Templin Institute “Ever expanding and ever declining”
The knight should always follow after you say 'History is complicated'
I feel naked and unsafe without the knight.
He is busy crushing infidels
Dues Vult Infiedel!
What would the crusader say to an electrician?
"Deus *Volt* infidel!"
9:00 Well, not exactly; the Astronomicon allows the Imperium's Navigators to traverse the Warp while knowing generally where they are (since the terrain of the warp constantly changes and time doesn't flow the same way as it does in the material world). It's more of a Control element, since it's basically a giant space lighthouse that makes FTL travel feasible.
HalfTangible it also allows telepaths to communicate, though.
No, the Warp does. Astropaths do not require the Astronomicon; they're not navigating the warp themselves, they're just shouting into it.
Correct. The warp rift that blocked the Astronomicon also prevented astropathic communication which created the Imperium Nihilus. Same underlying cause, but affecting two different systems.
But even there, nihilus is still belong to the empire....kind off.
“But let’s talk about the one thing empires expect less than the Spanish Inquisition: disease” -you, being unfortunately prophetic
I know this trilogy is meant for writers, but these three videos are great for anyone who wants or needs to learn a about how empires work, whether for history class, to understand more about modern politics, or just to approach the topic.
Thank you for such an amazing content.
I watch them for Dungeons and Dragons.
“Every empire eventually falls”
*C R I E S I N B Y Z A N T I N E*
You mean Eastern Roman Empire?
Star Wars is actually handled very well, as the reason Sidious remains in power is explained in great detail in books, comics, movies, and games, and the main take-away is that the empire fractured between the various Grand Admirals and Moffs that were left after the war. Well, unless you want to look at what's "canon", where instead, the Empire remains in power within the Core Worlds (meaning they control the most important Hyperspace Lanes) while the Republic controls, somehow, the majority of the galaxy, while the "True Empire" that is set in the Unknown Regions, eventually turning into the First Order. TBH, in both versions, there are Years of war, in Legends, multiple arcs that lead to the near-downfall of the Republic. Also consider that a huge portion of what made the Empire so darn loyal to the Emperor was the space magic that Palpatine used. When the Dark Lord of the Sith was gone, so was his hold on people. Suddenly, you had an Empire that was divided between warmongers, those that wanted to keep the Empire together, and, unsurprisingly, people who saw the Rebel Alliance as what it was, the most stable form of government in the Galaxy at that time. Dramatic change as we see in Star Wars is actually rather realistic, especially when you consider how The Force affects everything.
Well actually the majority of the core worlds remain under imperial control in the old EU for quite some time. Also you are forgetting that we are talking about a galaxy which means it's a plate. You don't need any hyperspace lanes to control the core as all the worlds are right next to each other. You need hyperspace lanes to get from the core to the outer rim and between sectors.
To be honest I think Canon makes the most sense when it comes to palpatines reaction he only wants people who serve him not their own agendas so he kills off the main group so people will back off until its only the loyal still around.
The Republic, the most stable government? Oh that's a good joke.
@@Gustav_Kuriga To be fair, have you seen literally any incarnation of the empire ever? Stable is their antonym.
@@netherwalker1762 The core worlds actually thrived under Imperial rule. It was the Outer Rim that suffered. Most of the perspective we have in Star Wars under the Empire is of the Outer and Mid Rim.
How an Empire Falls
.
.
.
.
in love
Love triangle i tell you
Trade agreements, mutual military aid and plenty of sexy music
Music starts * Love is in the air *
Rome chan is a baka!
-Hannibal just before crossing the alps
Cue Cleopatra entering the scene.
*FOR THE EMPEROR OF MANKIND*
FOR TERRA'S GOLDEN THRONE
FOR THE GLORY OF HIM ON EARTH
He who stands with me shall be my brother! For the Emperor!
FOR THE EMPEROR CLEANS THE HERETICS!
Yochai Wyss *IT IS BETTER TO DIE FOR THE EMPEROR THAN TO LIVE FOR YOUR SELF.*
Wow... imagine a pandemic fracturing a society. I'm sure that will never ever happen in the modern day
19:46
'microbial pandemics are far from irrelevant'
Me watching this in 2021 : 👀
Okay... I have nitpick here. In both the Legends and the new Canon, Star Wars Empire didn't peacefully revert back to a galactic republic. In Legends, the Imperial remnant was a constant headache, and Thrawn actually came close to unifying the Imperial Remnant and form another Empire. In the new Canon, the Empire still exists within pockets of "de-militerised" zones, and also those remnant generals and warlords are the foundation of the First Order. In both versions there were secessionists. Now movies do nothing to explain this at all, however there are a lot of filler books, and more coming out each year. Otherwise a superb series that a history nerd like me is in love with.
Thrawn came close to Galactic domination. Had we survived another month Ardus Kaine had put his fleet including the super star destroyer Reaper under Thrawns command making his fleet pretty much unstoppable
I wonder how well thrawn ruled.
“How a empire falls”
Me: oh neat I can learn I few things.
Sees the god emperor in the thumbnail.
“HERESY!”
"Pandemics are far from irrelevant"
Dude predicted the future.
Political upheaval? No money? Pandemics?
*laughs uncomfortably in 2021*
"microbial pandemics are far from irrelevant"
oh no...
Profile pic sums up the feeling of the comment
I feel like youre making this series specifically for me (obv not but yknow) Ive been working on a fantasy world for over 10 years now and this is helping alot with the way Im thinking about the power structures in my world, I appreciate it
For real???
@@kovu1530 yeah Im slow as hell
and after 10 years of worldbuilding, you didn't already know all of this ? x)
@@LeXenoGeek yeah coz people just know things without first learning them, its a hobby not a job get over yourself
sum CLINT , I'm with you! I've been working on a fantasy world (well, it's changed several times, so it's very different from how it started out, isn't quite the same one, exactly) ... since I was 12, over 25 years. In its current iteration, I'd say it's been 10-15 years, and won't be changing again.
But, yeah, it takes time to craft complex, realistic stuff, and I could say the same, that I feel like these videos were made with me in mind! Go, HFM!
I'll defend star wars a little! In canon... yeah the empire crumbles entirely in like a year and it seems like things were relatively chill. not a fan. in legends! the empire didn't fall over night, and basically it subdivided into separate states under different warlords. several of those states would go on to change and grow and last for decades after endor. meanwhile the new republic had all sorts of infighting and shifts in power. double meanwhile, a lot of other factions also grew in prominence due to the lack of a galactic central power so while the new republic and the imperial remnants were top dogs, things like the hapes consortium and chiss ascendancy kinda grew an had dominance in their own ways.
phew! loved this trilogy of vids so much. like really it was incredibly helpful and insightful and i plan to use it as a sort of guide! lovely work!
Star Wars is almost legendary for the amount of fix fics for all the BS in it, up to chewie not getting a medal.
Even in Canon it took over 10 years for the Empire to fall. The battle of Jakku is considered to be the final battle if i remember correctly. Now i agree in canon it's ridiculous how the new republic was formed with little internal conflict. But. Plot i guess.
I'm glad someone still remembers the Legends continuity. In the aftermath of Battle of Endor not only the Empire broke into Warlord factions and retreating to Fortress worlds, but the galaxy was invaded by THREE extra-galactic alien invasions that the fledgling Alliance of Free Planets (later New Republic) had to deal with before the Imperial factions.
Only after fifteen years (19 ABY) did the Imperial Remnant, the remaining official body of the Empire, signed a peace treaty with the New Republic. Although rogue factions did not acknowledge this treaty.
oh yeah it's wild XD my friends had a game when we watched movies of guessing how long background characters wookiepedia articles would be XD like everything you see has a backstory and it's awesome and hilarious
See I thought that the battle of jakku happened one year after endor in canon
Actually the Star Wars EU was pretty good at dealing with what happens after you win
The empire never truly fell, a part of it still held out until it Eventually formed a new Government together with the NR.
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 This is true
@@CaptRex501st And it's one of many reasons the EU is better
Indeed, it is way better than the Disney canon.
"Ah Rashek, always doing his best to preserve the Empire against ruin"
I see what you did there
Braiden Panike Theres a certain harmony to that reference.
গোঘাটের করে এই
*I TELL YOU THIS HERETIC: SO LONG AS THE FIRE OF HOPE BURNS WITHIN THE STOUT HEARTS OF THE EMPEROR'S CHILDREN THE IMPERIUM SHALL NEVER FALL!*
The emperor protects
@@inquisitorsteele8397 Yes, Brother.
He does.
No heretics here, good.
@@overlordinquisitor6565 you should check out the other videos comment section, inquisitor
Fools! The reign of the Corpse Emperor has been destined to fall long before he ended up in that golden coffin! You are nothing but lambs holding back a horde of wolves and every step forward precedes a backwards slide toward oblivion! Chaos can be delayed but it shall never be denied! For the Dark Gods!
I'm living for the constant Age of Empires mentions, ah the importance of farm placement!
Love your videos and really liked this trilogy!
The mongol empire fell?! Too soon man
True dat
Ikr? I was waiting for history to come out on DVD so I just catch up on it all at once.
Now the amazing On Worldbuilding Trilogy has ended. And man it has been quite a blast! This trio of videos are just beyond helpful in creating my own fictional Empire in my stories (I am already really getting the idea of it's history and they way it controls it's lands and who runs it!), and I can't wait to see more Worldbuilding videos in the future! :)
Luke Skywalker the 2nd judging by your comment, I assume you think this is his only video on the topic (correct me if I'm wrong). Check his channel, he has more.
@@nirast2561 I know he has made more videos on the Empires topic (I myself commented on them). That's why I said trio because his last two On Worldbuilding: Empires videos (plus this one) equals to three in total of course! :)
+Luke Skywalker the 2nd yes, and he also has world building videos on other topics.
Empires falling to pandemic sounds really relevant here in 2020...
"Microbial pandemics are far from irrelevant"
Me: [stares in 2021]
It's interesting to compare the two different perspectives on this issue that the two Star Wars continuities take.
In Legends (the original), the death of the Emperor and utter lack of any succession plan causes the Empire to fracture, with tons of little warlord states that refuse to recognize each other and fought each other as much as they did the former rebellion (which had formed its own state, the New Republic). Over the next 13 years, there were a series of on-and-off wars between all involved. Slowly, the warlord states were picked off one by one, either absorbed by other warlords or destroyed by the New Republic. Though the remaining factions of the Imperial Remnant were eventually reunited some years later, by that point they had lost so much in terms of ships, manpower and industry that they had no choice but to sign a peace deal with the Republic, allowing them to keep what territory they had left. Over time, the Imperial Remnant was forced by public opinion to become less autocratic, eventually becoming the Fel Empire, which was basically a constitutional monarchy.
In Canon (Disney's version), it is clear that the Empire had been struggling for a much longer time before the Emperor died. For over 20 years (the entirety of its existence), the Empire had been engaged in rebellion suppression or outright conquest. With too much territory to administer, the Empire couldn't use its full force everywhere that needed it, leading to casualties and outright lost planets, all while the Rebel Alliance grows and arms itself (as sympathetic states within the Empire were fairly easily able to smuggle them weapons and ships). The Empire had hoped the Death Star would bring this all to an end, but it backfired, and more systems rose in open rebellion than ever before. As the Empire attempted to put down these rebellions and engaged the Alliance in direct combat across a thousand systems for over 4 years, all while diverting resources to quickly build a new Death Star. When that also backfired and left the Empire leaderless while an even larger outbreak of rebellions gave the Alliance/New Republic the resources, manpower and industry to finally fight in open warfare. The Empire maybe could have marshalled its forces to repel this, but they were much too spread out and the leadership was divided, with de facto leader Gallius Rax in particular willing to sacrifice irreplaceable Imperial assets to eliminate his rivals. With the Empire divided and conquered and their last-ditch attempt at a large fleet destroyed at Jakku, the remaining political leadership surrenders in exchange for being able to keep a small remnant state of their own.
I find both versions to be interesting. The big difference between the two appears to be that the Legends Empire was more established, with greater resources and legitimacy (thus allowing the fight to continue on for many more years), while the Canon Empire had spent its entire existence in endless fights, slowly bleeding itself dry with many self-inflicted injuries and leaving it unable to cope once it had to fight all of its enemies at once. Canon Empire is an excellent example of an empire that is too big to hold itself together.
Want to know more about how real world empires split between successors on death of a ruler? Try CK2 today and set your inheritance laws to "Gavelkind"! Watch as all your hard work falls apart on death and all your sons kill each other! Fun for the whole family!
Fun for the whole family indeed. I need to marry my brother to my daughter to keep power in my family.
Joves Bahobs, if they don’t marry each other then one of them is gonna die. So its obviously an easy choice ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
oh look plagues predating the collapse of empires 🙃
One thing few stories consider is that empires often fall to outside forces.
It's always the freedom fighters and revolutionaries that defeat the empires and the outside world is not consider but in history most empires were just replaced by the next.
In the hunger games or V for Vendetta for example the outside world is completely irrelevant, but this is almost never the case in real life.
The other states might not like revolution next door (Like during the French revolution) or they see instability as a chance to conquer the other empire.
Having a massive outside threats might change how the people see revolution from the inside.
Interesting ideas would be story were the empire the protagonists live in falls by being conquered by a stronger empire, a story where the revolution wins only to be immediately conquered by the next door empire or maybe even one were they win the revolution only to find out that they can't keep up the nation without conquering others themselves so they just become another empire.
Unless you're France.
God damn it France, why do you have so many revolutions. Just... So many revolutions.
dir egal fu in the hunger games at least the outside world wasn’t considered because it seamed to me we were in a post apocalypse ish future where there really wasn’t anyone else left necessarily, I got the impression their were no other civilizations in the hunger games world so of course they wouldn’t be effecting it. I haven’t seen v for vandetta. If you want a revolution that falls to a neighboring country immediately there is a really long series in which that happens although I havnt finished it and believe in the end the original rebels may still get their country back. I think it’s a Morgan rice story It starts with “slave warrior queen” as book 1
Often the revolutions are sponsored by outside powers and only successful because of them
What you describe isn't common in history. Because if another empire invades there is already a large group of organised rebels who will just shift their focus to the new empire. That new empire also doesn't have any roots yet so it's actually even less likely to succeed in holding on.
The only times something like this happened is if the new empire is so much stronger than the old one that they could have conquered the region anyway but didn't for one reason or another.
The French revolution was against the Monarchy but not against the identity of France. French identity was actually celebrated and emphasized more and more. This is the start of what is considered nationalism and under Napoleon that was spread. Many of the people felt the king was incapable and that the government was corrupt but they were proud to be citizens of France. They didn't hate the nation, just the king. In Star Wars most imperial citizens resented the empire itself and most didn't even know or care about the emperor.
Revolutions sponsored are not often successful at all. They often can't organize and they often don't get popular support.
Wow, as a historian and a fan of fiction i can say this is a masterpiece
Some might say America is following too close in the footsteps of Rome.
Listening to that bit about pandemics like...wow...a live view of an excellent example of imperial/governmental collapse via disease
so glad you referenced mistborn and also how Aang defeating the Empire so quick left a lot unresolved and so much chaos and confusion
You left out a "Deus Vault, Infidel!"
I'm pretty sure I remember one in there.
@@akl2k7 He had one, but needed two.
"Deus vult"
Screw “Deus Vult”
Gott Mit Uns.
Days Vault?
You weren't kidding when you said the end is arguably the best. I really appreciate the research page too, thank you 😊
You're welcome (the mod who gave him the research)
I delayed watching this episode for two years.
JUST FOR THAT THE EMPIRE NEVER FALL
You completely ignored Star Wars Legends when talking about the franchise. While the first two trilogies give an unrealistic look into the formation and fall of the Empire and its motives, the SWEU was way more realistic and in-depth. The empire never collapsed following the destruction of the 2nd Death Star and the war continued raging on for another 15 years (which was composed of the newly-formed but still pretty fractured New Republic clearing up the remaining Imperial Factions and the massive list of Warlord Empires and advancing into the core) for the NR to actually make peace with the finally unified Imperial Remnant, with the two co-existing in a state of tense peace, along with several still existing warlords.
Other than that, great video
Currently I’m working on a story about rebuilding an empire these videos have been insightful cheers
This trilogy has been great. As an aspiring writer of mostly speculative fiction all your writing videos are really appreciated.
NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!
I love that you bring up the void nights from the early fourth era of the Elder Scrolls universe. You're correct all those things did happen. However it was not only those factors but it was also the fact that the Khajit rely upon the positions of the moon's mass and Segunda or Joan and Jode for the different forms that a Khajit cub I will take and with there being about at least 17 forms that I'm aware of at least those moons disappearing led to many stillbirth and many lost Legacies and the dominions claim they brought the moon back. Only brought those things you were talking about earlier but it brought life back specifically to the province of Elsewhere
Empires:”WE SHALL BE THE GREATEST NATION”
Empires also: *dies*
You know. I thought I had gotten all of the required read so to speak out of the way by watching all of Avatar TLA but now I've found out about the comics. The more I watch your channel the more time I must devote to Avatar
It's easy.
I see the holy emperor of mankind, I click.
Keep doing this, citizen.
WOW, HFM, great contents, and this definitely turned into a full length documentary. Very well done though.
Love your D&D tab on your internet browser
This was the most helpful series on TH-cam. Writing based on solid facts. Please do more stuff like this!!! (Even if that means a little less frequent videos)
"microbial pandemics are far from irrelevant" no kidding.
I like how Star Wars did eventually explore this stuff better. Like planets that still remained under the power of imperial remnants that became warlords, and the fact that the new republic was not able to gain power easily, had a lot of internal strife, and actually was eventually faced with a larger imperial remnant in the First Order, which is shown to have essentially equal or superior power to a somewhat weak republic.
Empires also greatly differ in the level of authoritarianism. Despite popular perception there were many empires in which the emperor had very little power. Examples include the Byzantines at various times, China at various times and Japan practically all the time. Japan is the longest continuous empire in existence but during most of it's history the emperor had little power. In fact for most the commander of the army named the Shogun was the true ruler of Japan. Also in China the emperor often had to share power with many nobles.
Having an emperor with a lot of power and without a lot of power has it's advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of a powerful emperor is that when the emperor is competent he can lead the empire better than any council ever can. There are far fewer people in his way so he can succeed with his vision and the amount of internal powerplays is greatly reduced so the empire's resources can be focused productive means rather than being wasted in civil strife. A powerful emperor can also take power away from incompetent or corrupt nobles who threaten the nation's stability. However that is only under a competent emperor and an autocratic empire like that is very dependent on it's emperor. If they have an incompetent or even just weak emperor they can easily become inefficient and corrupt and in severe cases even descend into civil war. Having a weak emperor is a much more consistent system and most of the longest lived empires had weak emperors as they could survive the reign of a weak emperor without suffering much damage.
All empires have highs and lows but it's usually that the more autocratic an empire is the more extreme those tend to be. Extremely autocratic empires usually don't last long, they thrive under a competent ruler but completely disintegrate as soon as an incompetent ruler comes to power.
[listing out various factors for revolution and government death]
United States: **chuckles nervously**
splitting between your heirs happens in reality more then it does in fiction
Out here in 2022, nodding along to the familiar beats as I read the news.
If you want a stunning cinematic depiction of an empire in turmoil, try the Chinese television drama Nirvana in Fire. The whole presentation of the politics of empire in that series is brilliant, and if you can make it through the first 5 episodes or so (there are a lot of characters introduced very quickly), it soon becomes gripping.
Thank you for these videos. I love all your work on writing, it's beautiful and so very helpful!
Ahh the Carolingian Empire. The classic example of why one should avoid gavelkind at all costs.
This channel: If you're writing about a revolution, the empire needs to be already in decline on it's final legs"
Brandon Sanderson: You underestimate my power
"How an empire falls"
*puts the mighty god-emperor of mankind, our lord and protector, in the thumbnail *
You heretic.
The Imperium stands!
I liked how the Mandalorian explored some of these issues, with the post-empire galaxy rampant with lawlessness and Imperial remnants. It's a more realistic examination of the typical kill-the-big-bad-and-save-the-day philosophy of the original series.
@Hello Future Me
But what about the restoration of Empires?
This vid still needs to be added to the on writing playlist, it would seem.
English Empire was democratic.
Succession issue of video: "I'm going to pretend I didn't see that."
One thing I would like to point out: in the Star Wars OT, it was really the Empire's own fault that they collapsed. Because Palpatine dissolved the Senate in A New Hope, they relied on their Death Stars to maintain control through fear. With the death of Palpatine and the loss of the second Death Star in Return of the Jedi, the subsequent succession crisis and the loss of their means of control would of course lead to the Empire's quick collapse.
"Sargon of akkad" Not that one! The one that was an emperor.
Surprise giant animated Tim is terrifying!!
Great series.
Napoleon was a bad example since he didn't have a succession crisis during the empire and nor did his successors. Only once the empires were already gone was there a succession crisis that weakened bona party legitimacy to form a third empire
I believe the example was focused more on the revolt and revolution of ideals of democracy that we see used in story writing, but instead Napoleon stepped into the power vacuum juxtaposed to the Star Wars depiction that bam central power be dead and thus democracy!
The French third empire didn't really fall. It was simply crushed by Prussia.
@@MrMarinus18 you speak facts! I give you da likes!
@@MrMarinus18 you're talking about the second french empire ruled by napoleon III, I'm saying that after that empire which was ended by prussia, a third empire was unlikely to be formed since there was a succession crisis after napoleon III son died in South Africa fighting the zulu
@@mrfeicco I see thanks for clearing that up
Hello Hello Future Me :D Flameo. Loving these series and I keep being surprised at how much you research these subjects. Super fun to watch and helpful to us world-builders out there.
Sargon of Akkard is alife and well, he just wanted to become a part of the British parliament. 😂
You used the SW Empire as an example, however, the Empire was founded off of the fear of another Clone Wars. Once that fear was gone, people began to see how badly the Empire treated their citizens, and many Rebels joined after a family member was taken, hurt, or killed by the Empire. Some Rebels, like Cassian Andor, supported the Separatist movement. Andor supported it since he was a child. Some of the Separatists saw the Empire as the Republic just without the Jedi, others hated it because it goes against what the Separatist was "publicly" fighting for, I say publicly because we all know that the Republic and the CIS were secretly controlled by the same person.
Also, the Empire was based on Nazi Germany, it formed then got destroyed soon after. From its policies to the way it collapsed goes hand and hand with the Nazis. However, I like the EU books since they show that the Empire was in a slow decline after it lost Vader and Palpatine. It started with fracturing and warlords taking over and trying to be the new Empire. While the "main" Imperials (the Loyalist/Imperial Remnant) tried to combat these Warlords and the New Republic at once. This period is known as the Imperial Civil War since multiple Imperial Factions were fighting each other at the time. 15 years after the destruction of the 2nd Death Star, during the Vong War, the few Imperials that didn't join forces with the NR to combat the Vong were only in a small sector of land, surrounded by the Vong. By the time of 130 ABY, there was the Fel Empire (it was called either the Galactic Empire or the New Galactic Empire, Fel just refers to the Monarch family in charge). It was a remnant of the Empire that had a monarch and was the last true Empire. It wasn't as Evil as the old Galactic Empire and wasn't Xenophobic and let Aliens join the Stormtrooper Corps. By this point the NR was weak, even being called the Galactic Alliance Remnant. During the Second Imperial Civil War, or the Sith-Imperial war (indicating that the Sith are Fighting Imperials), the Galactic Alliance, Fel Empire, and New Jedi Order all joined together to form the Galactic Alliance Triumvirate upon defeating the Sith Empire. They stayed joined after, with an NR Representative, the Jedi Council, and the Fel Emperor to govern its land.
All hail lord MISHKA may he forever more be beautiful and divine
Good that the Mandalorian has kind of dealt with the aftermath of the Galactic Civil War in a much more realistic way than had originally been done in canon.
did somebody say PANDEMIC?
*ONE HELL OF A GOOD MORNING WAKING UP TO THIS*
While looking at just the original trilogy paints a picture of "kill the head of state and the state collapses peacefully" if you look at the EU(expanded universe) at least the old stuff it's a bit more complex then that. In the Star Wars EU the transition back to the republic wasn't very smooth as after the all important higher ups of the empire died like Palpatine, Vader, Tarkin, and probably many other important people on the Death Stars dozens of imperial remnants and warlords rose up that opposed each other and the new republic. Admiral Thrawn in his trilogy of the same name was able to gather together many different remnants and vestiges of the empire and nearly toppled the new republic right after its creation as being a new political entity it wasn't well established enough to defend itself from threats that were more established even if it was just a remnant. It adds an interesting layer of complexity to old star wars canon that makes it go beyond "THE EMPEROR IS DEAD PEACE AND HAPPINESS FOREVER"
One thing that the old EU didn't mention which I would guess is that many imperial citizens after the fall of the emperor actually have a very strong nostalgia to the imperial days. At least then things were peaceful and the exploitation wasn't nearly as severe.
The American war for independence despite what some think actually had quite low public support. The Americans were considered full British citizens and had all the rights of them. The main things that caused grieves were the heavy taxes because of the recent 7 years war that Britain levied because the war resulted in major expansions for the Americans and the British refusal to expand the territories even further. There were about as many Americans signing up to fight for the British as there were for the revolution and many states didn't do much to support the revolution. It was mainly the support of Britain's enemies France and Holland that made it succeed. France donated massive amounts of money and even send troops. They send so much money that they went into major dept.
@@MrMarinus18 it actually did mention it and some even voted to leave the New Republic and rejoin the imperial remnant. + There was a big region of space that stayed utterly loyal to the empire and survived until it confederated with the new republic
@@MrMarinus18Excellent point about Imperial nostalgia.
If you read the Declaration of Independence, you will learn that the Continental Congress and the revolutionaries had a lot more objections than just taxes. The big ones were imposition of Royally-controlled judges in the Colonies, attempting to set military officers above civilian authorities, dissolving local legislatures, judicial bodies and governing documents (colonial charters), forcing them to house large numbers of troops in time of peace and protecting those troops from criminal charges with mock trials, and many others.
And while the Colonists considered themselves full Englishmen, with all rights thereunto pertaining, they didn't have representation in Parliament, which was the core of their objection to the taxes. They would have accepted those taxes if the colonies had MPs take part in the deliberations and cast votes.
There are two fundamental types. Empires that fail right after their construction and empires that exist for a long time and then gradually fall apart.
"What happens when death plays the xylophone? Repercussions."
Brilliant.
Great video but a (completely understandable) lack of understanding about Star Wars lore and the enormous complexity of the universe outside of just the movies made every jab at Star Wars a bit of a slap in the face
Hello Future Me I'm wondering which empire did galactic colonization better?
The UN from SDF Macross or one of you're choice as I am not too fluent in sci-fi empires.
19:45 Hello Future Me, 2018: "[...] pandemics are far from irrelevant"
Me, 2020, 5th consecutive week stuck at home: YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY MAN
I 100% fell in love with you at every AOE reference ever.
*Edit, also, you 100% missed "The Spice Must Flow" reference at the end for disrupting control and retaining communication networks. Because Paul basically just made himself Emperor after holding the meth hostage.
Wololololoooooooo
This is really well-done and useful!
The Janissary comment reminds me of how after the military overthrow and execution of Charles I of England, Britain became disunified politically and culturally, leading a variety of consequences not the least of which was the English army dictating the form of government as they had figured out no one else in Britain could do much about it. After about ten years of this (give or take a few years) they finally restored the monarchy to the son of Charles I, Charles II, at which point he dissolved the standing army that had been so much trouble to them. How could he do it when so many couldn't? If I remember correctly, he paid them.
Anyway, some fictional examples of empire falling everyone or nearly everyone has heard about but no one talks about. In Star Wars Legends (yeah, going into that pit) the Galactic Empire after Palpatine's death actually fell surprisingly slow, and after a succession crisis they ended up becoming the Imperial Remnant eventually because for whatever reason they couldn't completely liberate the Empire's holdings. In fact, they survived better than the New Republic until it was just their fleet and not even calling themselves the New Republic, at which point, the Empire was in charge now. Well, actually two of them, and after a bit of civil war, the Galactic Empire ruled with the guidance and blessing of the Jedi. You think history is complicated, but Legends is far far worse.
Another example was the Inheritance Cycle, where instead of topple an empire they took it over and even managed to expand it. Of course, neither of these are exactly Shakespear or even Bacon, but it's worth noting that the empires didn't just go away in those cases. I actually like the idea of a hero trying to defend an empire, especially if he's someone the empire would rather not have in their midst.
In England it's more that Oliver Cromwell became dictator of England simply because the country was about to fall apart. The nobles had their power from the kingdom so they didn't want that to happen. When Cromwell died and it became clear his son wouldn't be up to succeeding him they realized that England couldn't exist without a monarchy and so brought Charles II back.
However instead of England being directly ruled by the king it was now ruled by a constitution that held ultimate authority. The idea of what a 'constitution' is today is based on the agreement made to Charles II.
Truth is that none of those who fought in the civil war wanted to destroy England. They all loved the nation and so when they had to chose between getting their king back and having it collapse they chose for the king. After all it was clear that without a king many factions would just be vying for power and tearing the country apart.
That is always the case. Once the emperor falls away there will be many trying to take his place and/or trying to carve the empire up to get their slice of it. Even relatively peaceful ones go like that. When the last Chinese emperor was dethroned it led to the warlord era.
In fact I think the writers of Star Wars took quite a bit of insperation from the aftermath of the Qin dynasty. There was indeed the republic of China in the capital and surrounding lands meaning well and trying to unite the country. However most of the land was controlled by violent warlords who were most often nobles and generals from the old empire. Overtime the republic took over the warlord territory one by one.
There was even a resurance of the empire. In 1934 Japan conquered North-East China and installed the dethroned Chinese emperor back.
The Empire didn't really rule with the blessing of the jedi but more so with their begrudging acceptance. The jedi are not war mongers and so as long as the empire doesn't do anything wrong they let it be. The empire knew very well that if conflict were to start again the jedi would likely side with the alliance so they made their own version of the jedi order.
@@MrMarinus18, I didn't know that about China. As for England, yeah it was more complicated than the way I put it, but it has been a while since I learned about those particular events, and I try not to overcomplicate things when I write comments. Though about the Jedi and the Empire, unfortunately for me (or fortunately depending on your point of view) I haven't read or remembered anything about the Jedi's view on this. You must have a really good memory, an excellant trait for a writer.
You forgot the second “Which they did” when referencing the US defeating the British Empire.
19:45 you didn't know how right you were...
Attacks the Imperium of Man
God-Emperor: So you have chosen death.
"Let's talk about what happens when death plays the xylophone . . . repercussions!" This is great! I'm thinking here of Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique mvt V.