Best sourdough videos EVER! If you truly want to perfect your bread and understand the process these videos are amazing. Literal best on the topic on TH-cam.
your videos are so detailed, it is like attending a masterclass. Thank you so much for taking the effort to make them. The passion you hold for sourdough baking really shows. I have just started baking and 4 loaves in, they are all gummy... this video gives me more confidence in attempting loaf #5
Thanks Tom. All your energy went into information and teaching instead of being entertaining with a touch of info. Extremely helpful. A true masterclass indeed.
I have just discovered your videos and love them! I want to thank you for what you are doing. I have started baking bread about 1 year ago. I am a scientist by training and profession, although now I'm retired. After having read many books on the science and history of baking including the "Modernist Bread" volumes, I'm still experimenting and have many questions about sourdough baking. Your videos truly fit my mind-set. Thanks for all your efforts!!
This video is exactly what I needed. Finally, someone with a real scientific approach, not just repeating other bakers' ideas. Moreover, not assuming your own (probably reasonably good) experiences and gut feelings have to work for all kitchens and recipes around the world. Excellent, thank you!
Thank you. Here is a new video on similar topic. The SECRET of Bulk Fermentation: Measuring Dough Temperature and % Rise - The Two-Factor Method th-cam.com/video/p69UMuYJhJs/w-d-xo.html
Your video really shows the pros and cons of a high temperature bulk fermentation. On the upside, it is much quicker. On the downside, it is very easy to miss the window of optimal fermentation. I also use a temperature-controlled proofing chamber, but I usually do bulk fermentation at 24°C, and I wait until a sample taken from the loaf and kept in a small glass container (a shot glass, in my case) under the same conditions has approximately doubled in volume. Prior to fermentation, I do a very vigorous slap and fold method of gluten development, which gives the dough quite a bit of strength. I see a lot of gluten strands when I empty my dough onto the counter. For me, the flexibility of the relatively slow rise given by a lower temperature is well worth the extra time. This is one of the beauties of sourdough baking: the recipe and procedure can be adapted for the baker's convenience. Except for the volume increase criterion, I assess the completeness of bulk fermentation much the same way that you do, and with similar results. I wonder if a hybrid method would combine the advantages of our two approaches to optimal temperature. For example, one could begin at 27-28 degrees Celsius and then lower the temperature setting to 24 degrees Celsius after a brief period, anywhere from 15 to 60 min. One could even preheat the water and starter before feeding. As you point out, the temperature of the loaf would drop very slowly, but it might be possible to develop conditions in which the time required for fermentation would be much reduced, and yet the trickiness of catching the loaf at precisely the right point would also be reduced. it might well be worth a try, or indeed a series of trials.
Yes, watch the end of this video. When is Bulk Fermentation Done? Episode 7 - "Some Like it Hot: The Temperature Effect" th-cam.com/video/SUa9aY7r9w4/w-d-xo.html
Sorry, this is a better example of what you are looking for. Really foolproof. NEW!: Sourdough BREAKTHROUGH: Two-Stage Bulk Fermentation - For Busy People th-cam.com/video/DDOfIAgyCy8/w-d-xo.html
Your videos are the best I’ve seen on TH-cam. I love how comprehensive and process-oriented you are, and how you really explore what the critical points are, how to read the dough and crumb, and how to react methodically. Thank you for the time and expertise it took for you to make all of these videos and share them with us! Much appreciated from a home sourdough baker.
From watching your video I have finally realized what I was doing wrong. I was always over proofing. I thought the more it proofed the higher the loaf, so I always had flat loaves with tight crumb. I have been baking bread for a long time and sometimes it came out good but more often it was not light like I wanted it. I will try again and hopefully it will come out better. Thank you.
This video is pure gold. Thank you for such an in depth analysis leading to a much better understanding of bulk fermentation. It gives me more confidence in my own baking process - and thank you for sharing your knowledge so freely.
My takeaway? All four of these loaves look practically the same inside and out - all beautiful and I imagine they taste equally so - so these minor changes in BF times are inconsequential, and can be ostensibly ignored! Thanks for huge effort that went into this video! Appreciated.
Open this comment for clickable links to sections of the video... 0:05 Intro 1:40 The Experiment 3:02 Other Videos to Consider 5:08 The Recipe 8:03 When is Bulk Fermentation Done? 10:41 Mixing the Dough 12:08 Loaf #1 Bulk Fermentation Done 16:46 Loaf #1 Final Shaping 22:06 Loaf #2 Bulk Fermentation Done 25:43 Loaf #2 Final Shaping 27:15 Loaf #3 Bulk Fermentation Done 30:06 Loaf #3 Final Shaping 33:51 Loaf #4 Bulk Fermentation Done 36:50 Loaf #4 Final Shaping 38:40 Day 2: Scoring and Baking the Loaves 39:39 Comparing the Loaves 44:19 Cutting the Loaves 49:09 Slicing the Loaves 52:09 Taste Test 53:09 The 5 Stages of Fermentation
A really excellent breakdown of fermentation. I appreciate all of your work and dedication to share the results of this experiment with your viewers. I have a straight sided shot glass with ML markers on it and I take about 15-20 grams of my dough and put it in the shot glass as I begin bulk ferment. When the dough hits about 30% incease in size I know that the bulk is done and I get great results in my crumb and oven spring. This is a short cut that allows me to monitor the bulk ferment. Thanks again!
@@thesourdoughjourney ooooh surely the smaller/smallest West Germany beaker your schoolteacher friend gave you could come into handy for this! :D。#numberonefanofSourdoughBakingInstituteOfClevelandOhio
I was looking for a video on the shot glass, but only found your comment instead :) I'm trying this for the first time today. About 4h in and the little dough in the glass slowly started to rise, awesome :) great for us beginners
Oh, man. I've seen a bunch of bread-making TH-cams but yours is the funniest and the most joyful one to watch. I don't know why but it's just funny but very educational.
Your video is one of the best I have discovered. Thank you for taking the time and putting in the effort to be so detailed in the execution. The logistics of making a video like this and keeping it coherent is no small task. Happy proofing! 👍
Thank you! Also check out episodes 3 and 4 of this series for a continuation of this experiment. And check out my website for more info on this topic thesourdoughjourney.com.
This kind of corroborated something I was noticing the other day when I was waiting for my loaf to ferment, and it didn’t seem like it was doing anything and then all of a sudden it took off. And I had to make a decision because the previous loaf did the same thing and it over fermented. Within a very short period of time. That 30 minutes is critical. So when you see it’s starting to take off I think if you time it from that point and go 30 minutes and then stop and put it in the oven you will have the sweet spot. Not always as you know but it’s a good indicator. This was very helpful. Thank you.
This is the best video I could find regarding the fermentation! As a beginner, its easy to find find those recipes and sample timeline online or in books, but this, a details illustration on different period of fermentation was extremely helpful for me on what's really going on and how I should decide. Great job and thank you Tom!
Thank you for the feedback. Also check out Episode 3 in this series, and download the guide here…. thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Bulk-O-Matic-V1-04_25_21.pdf
Interesting results, thanks for this. It's honestly pretty astonishing you're the only guy attempting this sort of systematic testing given just how significantly minor changes in bulk can affect the outcome of the loaf. I was pretty surprised to find that the degree of bulk (assuming an adequate enough fermentation) did not have a significant effect on the scoring; you would think that having more or less 'gas in the tank' as it were would make the scores open further or lesser and/or more or less aggressively. It seems then that it largely has to do with the technique of scoring itself and the way in which it controls/directs the outward flow of gas. Also, I seem to have drawn a different interpretation of the reason for the tartine-directed 30% bulk rise. My assumption has been that a 'young' leaven is not as 'strong' as a fully ripe/mature/maximally risen one, and therefore does not raise the bulking dough as high. This is because when I make dough with a mature leaven my dough usually seems to be perfect around a 40-50% rise instead of 25-30. I'm curious as to whether/how a young vs mature leaven affects the final outcome of the loaf beyond being more vs less sour. It certainly seems to me that the *dough* (pre-bake) looks, feels, and handles differently. Any insights on this? Thanks again for the videos.
Thanks for the feedback. My conclusion about the 20-30% rise came to me when I did another experiment on dough temperatures. At 80F, or higher; you are working with a speeding train that takes a long time to slow down. I’ve only done a few anecdotal tests with starter vs young leaven. I have seen some difference as you note, but I’d need to do a controlled experiment on this to draw a conclusion. Another experiment idea. Thanks!
Thank you very much ! With you I understood my mistake and now I bake wonderful bread )) I always was waiting until “double in size”, overproofed my dough and thought it’s not enough fermented ))) Now it is in the past !!
Hi Tom, Thanks for the video, it really helps me. I‘m constantly developing my skills in baking a 50% whole wheat Sourdough loaf and I‘m getting close now to satisfying results now. Final Boss is clearly bulk fermentation, which is much faster with an increased whole wheat portion (in my case 3 to 3,5 h seems to be the sweet spot at 25 C). I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into this experiment. Thanks again and best regards from Germany, Christian
Your videos are absolute gold! I think if I had watched them when I stared making Sourdough, it might have scared me away. Now after some okay loafs, I’m hooked and want to do better. I love how you explain the fine details. It helps me understand what’s going on in the process and I’m no longer having to wear my lucky hat when making Sourdough.
This is by far one of the best sourdough channels on youtube. So informative and didactic! Another thing that I like here is that Tom has such a great diction that even I can really follow everything he is saying - and I'm very aware about my english level not beem that good. So, your are a legend, Tom, I can not thank you enought.
I normally do not comment on videos, but this series is one of the most, if not the most informative series on sourdough baking. Thank you for all you work! It is truly enlightening :)
I knew this video was made for me when 90 seconds in he described the struggle a new sourdough baker experiences with underproofing, overproofing, temperature changes, and different four mixes. SPOKE TO MY UNLEVENED SOUL!
This is such a detailed and helpful video, thanks a lot Tom. It's fascinating to see how crucial the last half hour of bulk fermentation can be on the final result. I felt like I had a reasonable understanding already, but I am sure the specific advice in this video will really give me more confidence when calling bulk fermentation done on my next loaves!
Maybe an idea, can you do a video comparing different hydrations 65/70/75/80. Mainly regarding fermentation on how an increase in the hydration affects bulk time?(rather than focusing on handling) Just an idea but something I always wondered about.
Tom, very detailed and informative video. Bulk fermentation was quite difficult for me when I first began sourdoughing. To get a more constant temperature what I did I placed my dough during bulk fermentation in my oven with just the oven light on and the door cracked slightly. I can keep the temp at about 78-82 degrees which now makes it easier for my bulk fermentation. You answered all the questions that I would have asked and you covered it all during your video. Once again great job!!!!
Tom, thank you so much for all of the effort you put into making these videos and providing the tools for reading the sourdough crumb, and the "bulkomatic" guide. As a result, I am finally understanding why I have been getting such disappointing results with my sourdough bread - I have been over-proofing. The other most helpful tool I have found on TH-cam is "The Bread Codes' " guide to the different protein content percentages, and the maximum hydration and bulk fermentation rise percentages to apply to lower and higher protein content in bread flour.
Thank you! I appreciate the support and feedback. I’m also familiar with the Bread Code video you’re referring to. That is a good tool also. I recently made a video on experimentations with Bread flours. I bake with 6 different bread flours with different protein percentages. It was a fascinating experiment. Thanks again and good luck!
Thank you! I appreciate the support and feedback. I’m also familiar with the Bread Code video you’re referring to. That is a good tool also. I recently made a video on experimentations with Bread flours. I bake with 6 different bread flours with different protein percentages. It was a fascinating experiment. Thanks again and good luck!
These videos are so long but not one single boring second. I l know ur making money doing these but you could make a lot more being another click-bait channel. This is passion for sourdough but also teaching, combined it becomes extremly good material for anyone who wish to learn. I have ADHD and struggle with getting bored too easily but ur triggering my hyper focus, I am learning and taking notes, love the passion!
Thank you. Also check out Episodes 3 and 4 where I continue to refine this method. Also check out the downloadable tools on my new website thesourdoughjourney.com
With many failed attempts the final proof was where I fixed my failed attempts. The over night wait or 12 hours was a must for me. Note room temp was 70 degrees. 1:5:5
Thank you so much for experimenting and sharing your journey with us! As a beginner baker this is so helpful to problem solve and make better judgments, especially with finding that sweet spot.
Thank you for this video. I often under ferment my dough coz my room temp is too hot. Particularly at the beginning of my sourdough journey. Then mu professional Chinese baker friend asked me what is my room temp vs the room temp of the recipe i was baking. It hit me like a ton of bricks coz i failed to consider that. Since that point on i stopped using warm water to mix my dough. I use partial “autolyse” of mixing my flour water & salt and stick it in the fridge while my levain rising at room temp for 3-4hrs. Then i mix my starter into my dough & start my bulk fermentation. From here i always gauge my room temp and adjust my fermentation time accordingly.
Oh my goodness. I have been letting my dough double (at 80*) and so totally over proofing! I couldn’t find anyone to explain why or how to measure 30% or what to look for. Thank you!!!
Thanks for taking the time to do this…very informative! If I was earring a piece of bread to go with dinner, I would choose #3. If I was making a sandwich, I would go with #4. Going to watch more of your videos as this was my first.
Fine series with clear discussion of many key factors for success. My first tries were not too good. Over proofed and under baked but taste was my reward. Lots of problems with my starter, working the dough, shaping, and baking. With you help it can only get better. Thank you!
Thank you for this! I took your info and photos of crumb to distinguish which I had, an under or over proofed loaf. I had a pretty good idea when my dough going in got wrinkles and began deflating when I went to place in my Dutch oven. I was baking and cooking all day, so my kitchen was way too hot and I didn't take that into consideration when bulk proofing until it was too late. No, it didn't rise much, and the crust was separating from the crumb, but it still tasted fantastic. My first ever sourdough loaf was perfect day before last, but I followed the exact recipe and time table, but first was at my sisters home with some of my starter I had taken for her, and her home is kept at 65° year round, my kitchen today was probably in the high 80s with the oven and gas stove going all day ( I cook batches of homemade food for our dogs once a week). So thank you, I learned ALOT from your videos. Going to try again tomorrow with no cooking going on!!
Just found your channel- thanks so much! I've been making sourdough for 12 years but still find it challenging at times. Your detailed video really helps me see what I've done wrong at times.
Nice Tom. Always worth the watch. I built a Styrofoam proof box using seed sprouting mat and temp controller. The ability to precisely control temperature during ferments has made a big difference in my outcomes. Particularly here in frigid AK.
A great experiment. Gluten development and fermentation time so much depends on the flour being used and the gluten strength differences. It also depends on the enzymatic activity of the flour. The protease enzyme cuts up the gluten structure so when wholemeal flours and freshly milled flours are being used shorter fermentation times are needed as they are higher in protease. As the gluten is developed by time and whatever stretching, folding or other being used the gluten builds to maximum strength and then starts to deteriorate. Using intermittent folds enables the baker to feel this. Never go for maximum gluten strength. Remember the dough still has to undergo proofing. Top end commercial mixing machines have a meter which reads the load the dough puts on the mixer arm so that they can monitor this. Dough development cannot be done by time and temp alone. 4 - 6 hours at between 24C and 28C is a typical bulk fermentation time to get good flavour development as well as good gluten development. Cold proofing is something else....
@@thesourdoughjourney No problem. I generally avoid your channel. Your results so often fly in the face of the findings of professional bread researchers and their published papers. They also often do not agree with experienced professional bakers and their texts. And, sometimes, as in this video, you say that baking research tells us... And simply get it wrong. Finally - Change the flour to a wholemeal, ancient grain, heritage wheat, or add some rye flour and your godliness break down completely. I cam here only because you caused some confusion for a baker I am helping. I am sure you are sincere. I wish you well, there is no acrimony in this post, only sadness that you mislead so many.
I run experiments, I transparently share all the details, and I report what I see with my eyes, based on my knowledge and experience at that time. I don’t publish, or imply these are peer-reviewed findings. These are generally (and obviously) n=1 experiments. I could have made this as an 8-minute video, summarizing my findings as if they are incontrovertible facts, but I choose not to do that. I share all the details so other bakers could repeat the experiment themselves. I am teaching home bakers observational skills, that often come only with experience. Many find that to be valuable. And, I always welcome feedback.
@@thesourdoughjourney So many of your findings fly in the face of professional research and established baking experience. The fact that you are doubling down on the basic Positivist model, without considering the facts I have laid before you shows a limited understanding of bread. You cannot entrench your work in such simplistic experiments. To do so is to ignore so many variables, as I have pointed out. You would do us all a favour if you actually read some of the research and then tested it. *As I have said, You frequently quote unascribed authorities and simply get it wrong.* Your dearth of knowledge shows through badly. You have not read my posts above with an open mind. There is no point in saying more. I shall leave this here. Sadly, I wish you well.
Tom, I don't watch tv any more, only your videos ;) Seriously, thank you for all your detailed tips and the time you put into making your videos. Your moral support is invaluable. I have a question about the 20 to 30% rise of the dough during bulk fermentation: from what point do we measure the increase in volume? From the point when we add the salt which marks the beginning of bulk fermentation? Also, I find it quite challenging to measure the rise fairly accurately as the top of the dough is not necessarily flat (even with a flat side see -through vessel). Thank you in advance!
Good question this is always a challenge. I believe it should be measured after adding the salt when all the ingredients are incorporated. Even starting to measure after stretch and folds works OK because the dough just doesn’t rise much during that time. The best way to do it is to use a vessel with millimeter markers on it and the first time you make a recipe, try to “flatten” the dough to get a good ml reading after adding the salt. Then you’ll always know what the starting point should be for that recipe (in milliliters). When the dough is domed up on the top, you need to image if the dough fully liquified at that moment what level would it settle at. That is how I do it. It is usually higher than where the leve is showing on the glass and lower the the peak of the dome. Thanks again!
@@thesourdoughjourney thank you very much for the prompt response. Working on my dough as we speak. Just decided to do a 6th turn and wait a bit longer... I believe I had beginner's luck the first few times I baked. Then, I had an issue (dough turning into soup) and have been very nervous ever since. I think I underproofed my dough as a result the last couple of times, I just didn't want to encounter the same issue. This last part of bulk fermentation and determining when it's done is so very tricky. I'm fairly proficient with yeasted doughs but sourdough is just a different journey... Thank you again!
Hi Tom, thank you so much for doing this experiment. I live in England and my kitchen is often quite chilly so I use my oven with light on for bulk ferment. My dough normally feels find throughout the process until I attempt to shape. The dough would be sticky and lost structure somehow. Having seen your video, I believe I have let bulk ferment get away from me - way more than your loaf 4. Now I know what to look out for. Thank you so much for the pointer. You are my go-to guy whenever I need help. Really appreciate it!
Tom a great thank you! I now feel like we are all laughing together as we do this deep dive! Before watching you, I was feeling alone on one side of the wheat field as all of the other pandemic bakers laughed and laughed at my failures! Thank you Tom.
Thank you so much - watching your videos I was able to troubleshoot my (frankly inedible) loaf, and produce one that looked and tasted amazing 😀👍 More work to be done, but thank you so much, I was on the verge of giving up. Your videos present the information so clearly, so methodically, it was suddenly very easy to see where the problems lay
Thank you for the feedback. Also check out Episode 3 of this series for some additional tools. There is also a downloadable tool/guide in the description of that video that you might find to be helpful.
This was a really great video and I learnt a lot from it. Thanks Tom for taking the time to do the experiment for us and taking the time to explain it so patiently.
I really really enjoy your channel. Valuable information and clear explanations. My sourdough bread starts looking better and better. Thank you for your effort in filming and editing all this precious material for us
This video was a life changer for me in learning all about bulk fermentation. I finally get it. Thank you so much Tom and especially all the time and effort you put into making your videos. Cheers Michelle.
@@thesourdoughjourney Hi Tom, is it possible after bulk fermentation to put the dough in the fridge for six hours before shaping as I have to go out and I don't want to over proof my dough. Can I then take the dough out of the fridge and bring to room temperature, then shape and place in banneton for overnight in the fridge. Not sure what to do. Thank you Michelle
@@michellehollings5340 yes, that should work. The dough will keep fermenting as it cools down in the fridge so try to shape it as soon as it comes back up to room temp because it will start fermenting again at that time.
Great video! I guess the best way to find the sweet spot is regardless to time, and is by just looking at the volume of the dough....the sweet spot to me, for bulk fermentation is when the dough has increased 50-65% of its original volume.
Thank you. Yes, the percent rise in volume is typically the most reliable variable. If it is carefully measured. Many people do not carefully measure it so this video recommends some other indicators. And depending what happens downstream in the process (countertop proof, fridge retard), the percent rise can vary by recipe/process.
Thank you! Episodes 3 and 4 of this series are a continuation of this experiment. And more info here on the website. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-bulk-fermentation-timing/
@@thesourdoughjourney I've been trying to watch all of them. They all have very valuable information! I'm a bit obsessed with experiments myself to try to prove or disprove things so watching all of yours hits home with me big time. Your work is very much appreciated.
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Haven't started baking yet but understanding the science is definitely helpful & eases you up in a way. (as an engineer, I tend to analytically look at things)
This is great. I've been struggling with a 100% whole wheat recipe. This video's given me a lot of clues and the model for the experiment. Thank you so much.
100% whole wheat is tricky. It will ferment much faster. And it can handle much higher hydration, typically than bread flour. I recommend pushing the hydration higher each time you bake until you find the maximum the flour can handle. Also, you won’t get a great windowpane with whole wheat, but I suggest still trying so you can get a feel for the dough as it is progressing through fermentation. .
@@thesourdoughjourney Great! I will follow your advise. I know my problem is in the fermentation, because sometimes I get amazing bread and sometimes I have to toss the unruly mass of dough in the bin (so frustrating!). But I know it can be done, so I won't give up. Cheers.
Enjoying these videos. Giving much insight on the development and how the chemistry of time, temp and fermentation works. Still developing my starter, and will be sure it looks good before I make my first loaf. I also bought the Tartine Bread book.
1.Which video is it where you explain bulk rise percentages and how to turn any container into an accurate vessel to determine % rise (you give a formula which uses 1.5x flour weight to determine volume of the dough)? 2. Does the formula still generally work when using a 65% hydration recipe as opposed to an 85% hydration recipe? So far, at least my on 70-80% hydration doughs, it is working really well.
Here at 48:43. 1.5x is based on 75% hydration. The difference at 70% is negligible. 65% might be closer to 1.4x. th-cam.com/video/PL6wSOrd4L8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sY6SQAJh2B9K_CR5
The one thing I would have liked to know is the kneading time after salt is incorporated. Since the gluten strength is important, the knead time really varies my crumb. How long did you knead by hand (or by machine). I tried Tartine recipe, but had to go to 6 minutes on level 2 on the Kitchenaid. Also, your dough looks stickier than mine, so hydration can definitely be different depending on the brand and composition of the flour, not just the baker’s percentage. Your’s isn’t quite ciabatta wet, but you sure get much bigger crumb like a high hydration recipe.
I do about 3 minutes of initial hand mixing, then another 3 minutes with the salt and reserved water. Tartine tends to undermix the dough, in my opinion. It is just barely mixed. The hydration is relative the the flour, for sure. With higher protein flours, the dough mixes up stiffer with the same hydration. And stiffer dough tends to “show the rise” a little more than wet dough.
This is a wonderful video it has really helped me a lot and given me more confidence seeing you go through it all, I think I can now make better choices. As always your videos are detailed and such quality thank you
Your dry tone and dry humour, made me lol. Thanks. I’m baking a loaf every 1-2 days, in total I have been baking about 2-3 months but started with yeast/poolish fermented breads for a month or so , then made my own starter and moved on to wild yeast/sourdoughs. I am an experienced/confident home cook though, so I believe I have a head start, based on intuition. I’ve had 1-2 flatties. But have had mostly beautiful loaves, never using a recipe as such, only the bakers percentage guidelines, baking between 70-95% hydration loaves along the way. I don’t exactly know when the perfect bulk ferment is over. I generally do 3 stretch and folds at 30 min intervals, then when that is done, I generally put 3hrs on the timer and come to pre shape when those 3-3.5 hours are up. I am here to learn what to look for within the dough when bulk is done. Thanks.
Thank you. A lot of it depends on the room temperate and dough temperature. If you keep your dough cool 70F/21C, you have a much larger window to work with. If your kitchen and dough is warm, it is more difficult to catch it at the right moment.
@@thesourdoughjourney Currently winter here in Australia, much chillier temps in my kitchen but I am proofing/bulking in a warmer room, probably 25 degrees Celsius. On the days my loaves Get very warm, I see much stickier and harder to work dough, I guess that’s over fermentation, or definitely bordering on it, then I move it to fridge overnight to bake in the morning. I am loving experimenting, and watching experiments such as these. Thank you!
Thanks. Also check out episodes 3 and 4 of this series where I expand on this experiment. And I have some great tools on my new website at thesourdoughjourney,com
Tom, this is an excellent and informing video. Thanks for putting this together; I’m beginning to use preferments in my bread baking and this answers a lot of questions I’ve had.
Very much appreciate all the time you put into these videos. May I ask though, do you bake straight out of the fridge, or do they rest on the bench for a period of time?
I absolutely love this video!! Quick question. Toward the end of the video you said you can finish bulk fermentation on the counter or in the refrigerator. Due to time constraints of a busy schedule I have started doing bulk in my refrigerator, not really knowing what I was doing. The next day I take it out and let it finish. I have had the most successful doing this but often wondered about the science behind this. Is this really a thing? I’m still learning so if this is a silly question please forgive me 🙏🏻
Thank you for these videos. I am brand new to sourdough baking. These have helped me more than anything else I've found (books, Facebook Groups, other videos).
Thanks for the video. It will be very helpful if you can show the close up of the dough (top and side). Especially, if you show all the dough in a side by side comparison.
Excellent informative video that has explained some of the issues (disasters!!) that I've encountered. One trick I've learned from "The Bread Code" videos is to place a small amount of dough in a small glass jar so I can accurately judge the percentage rise. Have you Tom a link to your preferred recipe.
Thank you! Also check out Episodes 3 and 4 of this series for a continuation of this experiment. And I have some great new tools on my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com
I would endorse this gentleman. I have been attempting to get some facility with sourdough bread, and feel safe in saying that this is the finest learning channel available. I would stick with Tom Cucuzza if you are serious.
Wow I love all your video so detailed n comprehensive . I am a beginner and learned a lot also learn from my failure to made the SD/ loave. Thank you 🙏 😃 💃
What would be the approximate size of the loaf pans with the wooden inserts? I’ve tried baking 200g flour weight loaves in a 9x5” loaf pan as my banneton, but have found that it makes my dough come out flat, and the lame is getting caught with the dough, ultimately baking up like a frisbee. Is there a guide to creating the types of wooden inserts you have? Maybe using cardboard as an alternative? Thank you for these amazing videos.
Thank you! The metal loaf pans are about 8”x3”. The inserts take about 1/2” off of that on all sides. I had to make them through trial and error cutting the two angles. It was not difficult if you have compound miter saw. You could use cardboard. Or crumpled foil. There are all kinds and sizes of metal loaf pans out there. And they are inexpensive. Keep looking and try different sizes. Too small is better than too big.
Thank you for the detailed instructions. Can you do an experiment on how different breads taste with bulk fermentation temperature variations? Thanks again.
Yes, I have done a few taste tests in some of the videos but have found that variations in bulk fermentation time, percent rise, starter percentage do not have much of an impact on flavor. The vast majority of the flavor differences occur in the final proofing, especially the cold retard. I have a video on this topic, "The Long, Cold Proof."
Question you took it out of original bowl at the end of SF and divided it and SF IT again so I would think you would have stretched out some of bubbles and for sure brought down the height. I BF the entire mass of 6 loafs in the container when I see the bubbles and jelly like texture I feel BF is done then I form twice then put in baskets then CR. So what’s the difference.
Good question. I’m measuring the percent rise from the level of the dough when I initially mixed it, not the starting level after S&Fs nor dividing). I had the bowls all marked with the original mixed dough startling point (total batch was 1500ml / 4 = 375ml). The dough also does not rise much in the first few hours, so I’ve found any differences caused by handling to be incredibly minimal on the outcome. I’m still measuring from the “mixed” level as the starting point, and the vast majority of the rise happens in the last 1-2 hours of bulk fermentation.
hello very nice video. would have been very interesting to check the pH at the end of the bulk fermentation of each sample. that ould be tremendously helpful....
Tom can you point me to the video or section where you talk about the impact of longer bulk fermentation in relation to what else is happening in the dough. I am in the uk and rooms are frequently much cooler during bf. Thank you
These tables show typical BF times, down to 16C. You can extrapolate lower. thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Bulk-Fermentation-Timetables-V1.0.pdf Here is an example of very cool BF thesourdoughjourney.com/experiment-24-hour-bulk-fermentation-using-a-cold-proofer/ The second half of this video is all about, cool BF. th-cam.com/video/PL6wSOrd4L8/w-d-xo.html
Thank you so much for this video! It tied in so much of what I'm learning and helped it all make a lot more sense. Wow! That was a ton of effort on your part and so appreciated! Thank you!
Thank you! Also check out Episode 3 and 4 of this series where I introduce a tool to assist this this method. I also have a helpful video and guide on How to Read a Sourdough Crumb that can be helpful also.
I've been sourdough baking for a year now and have come a long way, but I've still had some issues with consistency. I've watched dozens of videos on sourdough baking, and this is by far the most helpful I've seen! I have a question. Suppose I want to bake the same day that I make the dough, would you recommend you lean towards underproofed dough at the end of the bulk fermentation, like loaf one, since the dough temperature would stay consistent during the 2-3 hours of the final rise, as opposed to cooling in the fridge?
I would say trying to watch all your videos is definitely to much information for me to comprehend in 1 week and I have asperger and despite that I didn't come up with idea of measuring some parameters that you do in my 3 years journey of sourdough baking. You are really crazy to measure so many aspects and conducting so many experiments and analysis.
This was a great experiment to show how just a little bit of time can completely change the fermentation of the dough. I've only been baking sourdough for a few months and I've really struggled with wet sticky dough. Finally cracked the code on hydration but ending fermentation perplexes me. It seems to rise/peak/dome/jiggle when I'm totally not ready to continue the process (ie, midnight and I want to sleep!) Do I pop it in the fridge at that point or let it go till morning? Also Im getting at least 50-60 percent rise. Is that much before first shape?
Best sourdough videos EVER! If you truly want to perfect your bread and understand the process these videos are amazing. Literal best on the topic on TH-cam.
Thanks!
"As a beginner, this is where you kinda tell lies to yourself" - so true! Thank you for all your work in making this "masterclass".
Thanks! Also check out Episode 3 of this series.
your videos are so detailed, it is like attending a masterclass. Thank you so much for taking the effort to make them. The passion you hold for sourdough baking really shows. I have just started baking and 4 loaves in, they are all gummy... this video gives me more confidence in attempting loaf #5
Thanks for the feedback! Good luck!
Thanks Tom. All your energy went into information and teaching instead of being entertaining with a touch of info. Extremely helpful. A true masterclass indeed.
Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.
I have just discovered your videos and love them! I want to thank you for what you are doing.
I have started baking bread about 1 year ago. I am a scientist by training and profession, although now I'm retired. After having read many books on the science and history of baking including the "Modernist Bread" volumes, I'm still experimenting and have many questions about sourdough baking. Your videos truly fit my mind-set. Thanks for all your efforts!!
Thank you. I appreciate the feedback and have always loved doing experiments. I also have a new website at thesourdoughjourney.com
This video is exactly what I needed. Finally, someone with a real scientific approach, not just repeating other bakers' ideas. Moreover, not assuming your own (probably reasonably good) experiences and gut feelings have to work for all kitchens and recipes around the world. Excellent, thank you!
Thank you. Here is a new video on similar topic. The SECRET of Bulk Fermentation: Measuring Dough Temperature and % Rise - The Two-Factor Method
th-cam.com/video/p69UMuYJhJs/w-d-xo.html
Your video really shows the pros and cons of a high temperature bulk fermentation. On the upside, it is much quicker. On the downside, it is very easy to miss the window of optimal fermentation. I also use a temperature-controlled proofing chamber, but I usually do bulk fermentation at 24°C, and I wait until a sample taken from the loaf and kept in a small glass container (a shot glass, in my case) under the same conditions has approximately doubled in volume. Prior to fermentation, I do a very vigorous slap and fold method of gluten development, which gives the dough quite a bit of strength. I see a lot of gluten strands when I empty my dough onto the counter. For me, the flexibility of the relatively slow rise given by a lower temperature is well worth the extra time. This is one of the beauties of sourdough baking: the recipe and procedure can be adapted for the baker's convenience. Except for the volume increase criterion, I assess the completeness of bulk fermentation much the same way that you do, and with similar results.
I wonder if a hybrid method would combine the advantages of our two approaches to optimal temperature. For example, one could begin at 27-28 degrees Celsius and then lower the temperature setting to 24 degrees Celsius after a brief period, anywhere from 15 to 60 min. One could even preheat the water and starter before feeding. As you point out, the temperature of the loaf would drop very slowly, but it might be possible to develop conditions in which the time required for fermentation would be much reduced, and yet the trickiness of catching the loaf at precisely the right point would also be reduced. it might well be worth a try, or indeed a series of trials.
Yes, watch the end of this video.
When is Bulk Fermentation Done? Episode 7 - "Some Like it Hot: The Temperature Effect"
th-cam.com/video/SUa9aY7r9w4/w-d-xo.html
Sorry, this is a better example of what you are looking for. Really foolproof.
NEW!: Sourdough BREAKTHROUGH: Two-Stage Bulk Fermentation - For Busy People
th-cam.com/video/DDOfIAgyCy8/w-d-xo.html
Your videos are the best I’ve seen on TH-cam. I love how comprehensive and process-oriented you are, and how you really explore what the critical points are, how to read the dough and crumb, and how to react methodically. Thank you for the time and expertise it took for you to make all of these videos and share them with us! Much appreciated from a home sourdough baker.
Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it! Also check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com
From watching your video I have finally realized what I was doing wrong. I was always over proofing.
I thought the more it proofed the higher the loaf, so I always had flat loaves with tight crumb.
I have been baking bread for a long time and sometimes it came out good but more often it was not
light like I wanted it. I will try again and hopefully it will come out better. Thank you.
Thank you for the feedback. Good luck!
This video is pure gold. Thank you for such an in depth analysis leading to a much better understanding of bulk fermentation. It gives me more confidence in my own baking process - and thank you for sharing your knowledge so freely.
Thank you.
My takeaway? All four of these loaves look practically the same inside and out - all beautiful and I imagine they taste equally so - so these minor changes in BF times are inconsequential, and can be ostensibly ignored! Thanks for huge effort that went into this video! Appreciated.
Thank you. Check out episodes 3 and 4 where I show more dramatic differences.
Open this comment for clickable links to sections of the video...
0:05 Intro
1:40 The Experiment
3:02 Other Videos to Consider
5:08 The Recipe
8:03 When is Bulk Fermentation Done?
10:41 Mixing the Dough
12:08 Loaf #1 Bulk Fermentation Done
16:46 Loaf #1 Final Shaping
22:06 Loaf #2 Bulk Fermentation Done
25:43 Loaf #2 Final Shaping
27:15 Loaf #3 Bulk Fermentation Done
30:06 Loaf #3 Final Shaping
33:51 Loaf #4 Bulk Fermentation Done
36:50 Loaf #4 Final Shaping
38:40 Day 2: Scoring and Baking the Loaves
39:39 Comparing the Loaves
44:19 Cutting the Loaves
49:09 Slicing the Loaves
52:09 Taste Test
53:09 The 5 Stages of Fermentation
A really excellent breakdown of fermentation. I appreciate all of your work and dedication to share the results of this experiment with your viewers.
I have a straight sided shot glass with ML markers on it and I take about 15-20 grams of my dough and put it in the shot glass as I begin bulk ferment. When the dough hits about 30% incease in size I know that the bulk is done and I get great results in my crumb and oven spring. This is a short cut that allows me to monitor the bulk ferment. Thanks again!
Thank you! Your approach is a great way to do it. I will add than in one of my upcoming experiments.
@@thesourdoughjourney ooooh surely the smaller/smallest West Germany beaker your schoolteacher friend gave you could come into handy for this! :D。#numberonefanofSourdoughBakingInstituteOfClevelandOhio
What a great idea, thanks for sharing!
@@missredhead5995 yes! The small beaker would have been perfect.
I was looking for a video on the shot glass, but only found your comment instead :) I'm trying this for the first time today. About 4h in and the little dough in the glass slowly started to rise, awesome :) great for us beginners
Oh, man. I've seen a bunch of bread-making TH-cams but yours is the funniest and the most joyful one to watch. I don't know why but it's just funny but very educational.
Thank you. If you like my sense of humor, check out this one. th-cam.com/video/WVebYEH63xM/w-d-xo.html
Man, you're cool! This is the first time I listen to English and understand almost everything. You speak very simply and very clearly. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback. Also check out Episode 3 of this series.
Your video is one of the best I have discovered. Thank you for taking the time and putting in the effort to be so detailed in the execution. The logistics of making a video like this and keeping it coherent is no small task. Happy proofing! 👍
Thank you! Also check out episodes 3 and 4 of this series for a continuation of this experiment. And check out my website for more info on this topic thesourdoughjourney.com.
This kind of corroborated something I was noticing the other day when I was waiting for my loaf to ferment, and it didn’t seem like it was doing anything and then all of a sudden it took off. And I had to make a decision because the previous loaf did the same thing and it over fermented. Within a very short period of time. That 30 minutes is critical. So when you see it’s starting to take off I think if you time it from that point and go 30 minutes and then stop and put it in the oven you will have the sweet spot. Not always as you know but it’s a good indicator. This was very helpful. Thank you.
Thanks 🙏
This is the best video I could find regarding the fermentation! As a beginner, its easy to find find those recipes and sample timeline online or in books, but this, a details illustration on different period of fermentation was extremely helpful for me on what's really going on and how I should decide. Great job and thank you Tom!
Thank you for the feedback. Also check out Episode 3 in this series, and download the guide here….
thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Bulk-O-Matic-V1-04_25_21.pdf
Interesting results, thanks for this. It's honestly pretty astonishing you're the only guy attempting this sort of systematic testing given just how significantly minor changes in bulk can affect the outcome of the loaf. I was pretty surprised to find that the degree of bulk (assuming an adequate enough fermentation) did not have a significant effect on the scoring; you would think that having more or less 'gas in the tank' as it were would make the scores open further or lesser and/or more or less aggressively. It seems then that it largely has to do with the technique of scoring itself and the way in which it controls/directs the outward flow of gas.
Also, I seem to have drawn a different interpretation of the reason for the tartine-directed 30% bulk rise. My assumption has been that a 'young' leaven is not as 'strong' as a fully ripe/mature/maximally risen one, and therefore does not raise the bulking dough as high. This is because when I make dough with a mature leaven my dough usually seems to be perfect around a 40-50% rise instead of 25-30. I'm curious as to whether/how a young vs mature leaven affects the final outcome of the loaf beyond being more vs less sour. It certainly seems to me that the *dough* (pre-bake) looks, feels, and handles differently. Any insights on this? Thanks again for the videos.
Thanks for the feedback. My conclusion about the 20-30% rise came to me when I did another experiment on dough temperatures. At 80F, or higher; you are working with a speeding train that takes a long time to slow down.
I’ve only done a few anecdotal tests with starter vs young leaven. I have seen some difference as you note, but I’d need to do a controlled experiment on this to draw a conclusion. Another experiment idea. Thanks!
This is the best video I’ve seen that describes in such detail, with a little subtle humor, everything there is to know about this subject. Thank you!
Thank you! Also check out Episode 3 of this series.
Thank you very much ! With you I understood my mistake and now I bake wonderful bread )) I always was waiting until “double in size”, overproofed my dough and thought it’s not enough fermented ))) Now it is in the past !!
Thank you for the feedback! I’m happy it helped solve your problem.
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the video, it really helps me. I‘m constantly developing my skills in baking a 50% whole wheat Sourdough loaf and I‘m getting close now to satisfying results now. Final Boss is clearly bulk fermentation, which is much faster with an increased whole wheat portion (in my case 3 to 3,5 h seems to be the sweet spot at 25 C). I really appreciate the time and effort you have put into this experiment.
Thanks again and best regards from Germany,
Christian
Thank you’ll. That sounds about right for a 50% whole wheat loaf. Good luck with your baking!
Your videos are absolute gold! I think if I had watched them when I stared making Sourdough, it might have scared me away. Now after some okay loafs, I’m hooked and want to do better. I love how you explain the fine details. It helps me understand what’s going on in the process and I’m no longer having to wear my lucky hat when making Sourdough.
Thank you! also check out episodes 3 and 4 in this series.
This is by far one of the best sourdough channels on youtube. So informative and didactic!
Another thing that I like here is that Tom has such a great diction that even I can really follow everything he is saying - and I'm very aware about my english level not beem that good.
So, your are a legend, Tom, I can not thank you enought.
Thank you for the feedback! I try hard to make my videos internationally accessible.
I normally do not comment on videos, but this series is one of the most, if not the most informative series on sourdough baking. Thank you for all you work! It is truly enlightening :)
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback. Also check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com.
I knew this video was made for me when 90 seconds in he described the struggle a new sourdough baker experiences with underproofing, overproofing, temperature changes, and different four mixes. SPOKE TO MY UNLEVENED SOUL!
Thank you! Also check out Episodes 3 and 4 in this series.
This is such a detailed and helpful video, thanks a lot Tom. It's fascinating to see how crucial the last half hour of bulk fermentation can be on the final result. I felt like I had a reasonable understanding already, but I am sure the specific advice in this video will really give me more confidence when calling bulk fermentation done on my next loaves!
Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I did some other less controlled experiments and was starting to see that 30 minutes makes a big difference.
Maybe an idea, can you do a video comparing different hydrations 65/70/75/80. Mainly regarding fermentation on how an increase in the hydration affects bulk time?(rather than focusing on handling) Just an idea but something I always wondered about.
Yes thanks. That’s on my list. I’m working through one variable at a time.
Tom, very detailed and informative video. Bulk fermentation was quite difficult for me when I first began sourdoughing. To get a more constant temperature what I did I placed my dough during bulk fermentation in my oven with just the oven light on and the door cracked slightly. I can keep the temp at about 78-82 degrees which now makes it easier for my bulk fermentation. You answered all the questions that I would have asked and you covered it all during your video. Once again great job!!!!
Thank you. I love 80F for bulk fermentation. Definitely the sweet spot for me.
Tom, thank you so much for all of the effort you put into making these videos and providing the tools for reading the sourdough crumb, and the "bulkomatic" guide. As a result, I am finally understanding why I have been getting such disappointing results with my sourdough bread - I have been over-proofing.
The other most helpful tool I have found on TH-cam is "The Bread Codes' " guide to the different protein content percentages, and the maximum hydration and bulk fermentation rise percentages to apply to lower and higher protein content in bread flour.
Thank you! I appreciate the support and feedback. I’m also familiar with the Bread Code video you’re referring to. That is a good tool also. I recently made a video on experimentations with Bread flours. I bake with 6 different bread flours with different protein percentages. It was a fascinating experiment. Thanks again and good luck!
Thank you! I appreciate the support and feedback. I’m also familiar with the Bread Code video you’re referring to. That is a good tool also. I recently made a video on experimentations with Bread flours. I bake with 6 different bread flours with different protein percentages. It was a fascinating experiment. Thanks again and good luck!
These videos are so long but not one single boring second. I l know ur making money doing these but you could make a lot more being another click-bait channel. This is passion for sourdough but also teaching, combined it becomes extremly good material for anyone who wish to learn. I have ADHD and struggle with getting bored too easily but ur triggering my hyper focus, I am learning and taking notes, love the passion!
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback.
Better than a master class... It's like sourdough science! Thank you so much!! The bread slices at the end was like a loaf MRI.
Thank you. Also check out Episodes 3 and 4 where I continue to refine this method. Also check out the downloadable tools on my new website thesourdoughjourney.com
This was SO informative. I’ve had trouble with sourdough in the past and I learned so much here. I’m excited to get back at it! Thank you, thank you!
Thank you. Also check our Episodes 3 and 4 in this series.
With many failed attempts the final proof was where I fixed my failed attempts. The over night wait or 12 hours was a must for me. Note room temp was 70 degrees. 1:5:5
👍
Most excellent work I've seen on sourdough science. Plus, you give the transcript and minute by minute plays. Engineer?
Thank you’ll. Not an engineer, but I’ve always been quite analytical.
Thank you so much for experimenting and sharing your journey with us! As a beginner baker this is so helpful to problem solve and make better judgments, especially with finding that sweet spot.
Thank you! I'm happy you found it helpful.
Thank you for this video. I often under ferment my dough coz my room temp is too hot. Particularly at the beginning of my sourdough journey. Then mu professional Chinese baker friend asked me what is my room temp vs the room temp of the recipe i was baking. It hit me like a ton of bricks coz i failed to consider that. Since that point on i stopped using warm water to mix my dough. I use partial “autolyse” of mixing my flour water & salt and stick it in the fridge while my levain rising at room temp for 3-4hrs. Then i mix my starter into my dough & start my bulk fermentation. From here i always gauge my room temp and adjust my fermentation time accordingly.
Thank you. It’s all about the dough temperature!
Oh my goodness. I have been letting my dough double (at 80*) and so totally over proofing! I couldn’t find anyone to explain why or how to measure 30% or what to look for. Thank you!!!
Thanks!
Thanks for taking the time to do this…very informative! If I was earring a piece of bread to go with dinner, I would choose #3. If I was making a sandwich, I would go with #4. Going to watch more of your videos as this was my first.
Thank you. Also watch episodes 3 and 4. They really show how to dial it in, across 8 different loaves. 45 minute differences.
Fine series with clear discussion of many key factors for success. My first tries were not too good. Over proofed and under baked but taste was my reward. Lots of problems with my starter, working the dough, shaping, and baking. With you help it can only get better. Thank you!
Thank you for the feedback.
Thank you for this! I took your info and photos of crumb to distinguish which I had, an under or over proofed loaf. I had a pretty good idea when my dough going in got wrinkles and began deflating when I went to place in my Dutch oven. I was baking and cooking all day, so my kitchen was way too hot and I didn't take that into consideration when bulk proofing until it was too late. No, it didn't rise much, and the crust was separating from the crumb, but it still tasted fantastic. My first ever sourdough loaf was perfect day before last, but I followed the exact recipe and time table, but first was at my sisters home with some of my starter I had taken for her, and her home is kept at 65° year round, my kitchen today was probably in the high 80s with the oven and gas stove going all day ( I cook batches of homemade food for our dogs once a week). So thank you, I learned ALOT from your videos. Going to try again tomorrow with no cooking going on!!
Thanks!
Just found your channel- thanks so much! I've been making sourdough for 12 years but still find it challenging at times. Your detailed video really helps me see what I've done wrong at times.
Thanks!
Nice Tom. Always worth the watch. I built a Styrofoam proof box using seed sprouting mat and temp controller. The ability to precisely control temperature during ferments has made a big difference in my outcomes. Particularly here in frigid AK.
Thank you. That is a great idea.
A DIY proofing box is on my Christmas wish list. Hat Tip to: th-cam.com/video/yVYWMrBOL6c/w-d-xo.html
I have also made a proofing box the same way
A great experiment.
Gluten development and fermentation time so much depends on the flour being used and the gluten strength differences.
It also depends on the enzymatic activity of the flour. The protease enzyme cuts up the gluten structure so when wholemeal flours and freshly milled flours are being used shorter fermentation times are needed as they are higher in protease.
As the gluten is developed by time and whatever stretching, folding or other being used the gluten builds to maximum strength and then starts to deteriorate. Using intermittent folds enables the baker to feel this. Never go for maximum gluten strength. Remember the dough still has to undergo proofing. Top end commercial mixing machines have a meter which reads the load the dough puts on the mixer arm so that they can monitor this. Dough development cannot be done by time and temp alone.
4 - 6 hours at between 24C and 28C is a typical bulk fermentation time to get good flavour development as well as good gluten development. Cold proofing is something else....
Thanks.
@@thesourdoughjourney No problem. I generally avoid your channel. Your results so often fly in the face of the findings of professional bread researchers and their published papers.
They also often do not agree with experienced professional bakers and their texts.
And, sometimes, as in this video, you say that baking research tells us... And simply get it wrong.
Finally - Change the flour to a wholemeal, ancient grain, heritage wheat, or add some rye flour and your godliness break down completely.
I cam here only because you caused some confusion for a baker I am helping.
I am sure you are sincere.
I wish you well, there is no acrimony in this post, only sadness that you mislead so many.
I run experiments, I transparently share all the details, and I report what I see with my eyes, based on my knowledge and experience at that time. I don’t publish, or imply these are peer-reviewed findings. These are generally (and obviously) n=1 experiments.
I could have made this as an 8-minute video, summarizing my findings as if they are incontrovertible facts, but I choose not to do that. I share all the details so other bakers could repeat the experiment themselves. I am teaching home bakers observational skills, that often come only with experience. Many find that to be valuable.
And, I always welcome feedback.
@@thesourdoughjourney So many of your findings fly in the face of professional research and established baking experience.
The fact that you are doubling down on the basic Positivist model, without considering the facts I have laid before you shows a limited understanding of bread.
You cannot entrench your work in such simplistic experiments. To do so is to ignore so many variables, as I have pointed out.
You would do us all a favour if you actually read some of the research and then tested it.
*As I have said, You frequently quote unascribed authorities and simply get it wrong.*
Your dearth of knowledge shows through badly.
You have not read my posts above with an open mind.
There is no point in saying more.
I shall leave this here.
Sadly, I wish you well.
Thank you. I’m in a colder climate and my last 2 loaves did well. This time my bulk fermentation is taking longer and I’ll be patient. 🙂
Thank you. Also check out episodes 3 and 4 of this series.
Tom, I don't watch tv any more, only your videos ;) Seriously, thank you for all your detailed tips and the time you put into making your videos. Your moral support is invaluable. I have a question about the 20 to 30% rise of the dough during bulk fermentation: from what point do we measure the increase in volume? From the point when we add the salt which marks the beginning of bulk fermentation? Also, I find it quite challenging to measure the rise fairly accurately as the top of the dough is not necessarily flat (even with a flat side see -through vessel). Thank you in advance!
Good question this is always a challenge. I believe it should be measured after adding the salt when all the ingredients are incorporated. Even starting to measure after stretch and folds works OK because the dough just doesn’t rise much during that time. The best way to do it is to use a vessel with millimeter markers on it and the first time you make a recipe, try to “flatten” the dough to get a good ml reading after adding the salt. Then you’ll always know what the starting point should be for that recipe (in milliliters).
When the dough is domed up on the top, you need to image if the dough fully liquified at that moment what level would it settle at. That is how I do it. It is usually higher than where the leve is showing on the glass and lower the the peak of the dome. Thanks again!
@@thesourdoughjourney thank you very much for the prompt response. Working on my dough as we speak. Just decided to do a 6th turn and wait a bit longer... I believe I had beginner's luck the first few times I baked. Then, I had an issue (dough turning into soup) and have been very nervous ever since. I think I underproofed my dough as a result the last couple of times, I just didn't want to encounter the same issue. This last part of bulk fermentation and determining when it's done is so very tricky. I'm fairly proficient with yeasted doughs but sourdough is just a different journey... Thank you again!
Hi Tom, thank you so much for doing this experiment. I live in England and my kitchen is often quite chilly so I use my oven with light on for bulk ferment. My dough normally feels find throughout the process until I attempt to shape. The dough would be sticky and lost structure somehow. Having seen your video, I believe I have let bulk ferment get away from me - way more than your loaf 4. Now I know what to look out for. Thank you so much for the pointer. You are my go-to guy whenever I need help. Really appreciate it!
Thank you for the feedback. I will be continuing to create more videos in this series.
Tom a great thank you! I now feel like we are all laughing together as we do this deep dive! Before watching you, I was feeling alone on one side of the wheat field as all of the other pandemic bakers laughed and laughed at my failures! Thank you Tom.
Thank you for the feedback.
Thank you so much - watching your videos I was able to troubleshoot my (frankly inedible) loaf, and produce one that looked and tasted amazing 😀👍 More work to be done, but thank you so much, I was on the verge of giving up. Your videos present the information so clearly, so methodically, it was suddenly very easy to see where the problems lay
Thank you for the feedback. Also check out Episode 3 of this series for some additional tools. There is also a downloadable tool/guide in the description of that video that you might find to be helpful.
This was a really great video and I learnt a lot from it. Thanks Tom for taking the time to do the experiment for us and taking the time to explain it so patiently.
Thank you! Check out Episode 3. It’s even better.
I really really enjoy your channel.
Valuable information and clear explanations. My sourdough bread starts looking better and better. Thank you for your effort in filming and editing all this precious material for us
Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.
This video was a life changer for me in learning all about bulk fermentation. I finally get it.
Thank you so much Tom and especially all the time and effort you put into making your videos.
Cheers Michelle.
Thank you! Also check out Episode 3 of this series which expands on this topic,
@@thesourdoughjourney Hi Tom, is it possible after bulk fermentation to put the dough in the fridge for six hours before shaping as I have to go out and I don't want to over proof my dough. Can I then take the dough out of the fridge and bring to room temperature, then shape and place in banneton for overnight in the fridge. Not sure what to do. Thank you Michelle
@@michellehollings5340 yes, that should work. The dough will keep fermenting as it cools down in the fridge so try to shape it as soon as it comes back up to room temp because it will start fermenting again at that time.
@@dontscrewitup Thank you, I will try that now.
Thanks Tom. Your videos are the best among all I've watched. Very details explaining on every circumstances.
Thank you! Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com for more info.
Wow! Great job Tom! Thanks for putting all this time and energy to this experiment. You rock. I now understood better the proofing process. Cheers!
Thank you for the feedback! I’ll be making a few more videos in this series in the coming weeks.
Great video!
I guess the best way to find the sweet spot is regardless to time, and is by just looking at the volume of the dough....the sweet spot to me, for bulk fermentation is when the dough has increased 50-65% of its original volume.
Thank you. Yes, the percent rise in volume is typically the most reliable variable. If it is carefully measured. Many people do not carefully measure it so this video recommends some other indicators. And depending what happens downstream in the process (countertop proof, fridge retard), the percent rise can vary by recipe/process.
Wonderful video and very well explained. Thank you for taking the time to cover everything so well.
Thank you! Episodes 3 and 4 of this series are a continuation of this experiment. And more info here on the website. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-bulk-fermentation-timing/
@@thesourdoughjourney I've been trying to watch all of them. They all have very valuable information! I'm a bit obsessed with experiments myself to try to prove or disprove things so watching all of yours hits home with me big time. Your work is very much appreciated.
Thank you so much, Tom, for this excellent experiment and clear illustration.
Thank you. Also check out episodes 3 and 4 in this series for more details and examples.
Dear Tom, thank you for such a detailed information! It's still a rocket science for me as flour type also plays a big role in final crumb appearance.
Thank you. Yes I’m using a basic flour type here.
Also check out episodes 3 and 4 of this series.
thank you for these amazing master classes!! I love understanding the science behind bread baking.
Thank you for the feedback. Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com
This was most helpful. Thank you for all your efforts. The most helpful hint for me, was the "shake" to test for proofing test.
Thank you. Check out Episode 3 of this series where I expand on this concept. Also check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com
Thank you for the detailed explanation. Haven't started baking yet but understanding the science is definitely helpful & eases you up in a way. (as an engineer, I tend to analytically look at things)
You will learn a lot from my videos. All based on repeatable scientific experiments.
Excellent video!! I learned so much from this - thank you for taking the time to film and explain in such detail.
Thank you. Also check out episode 3 where I continue this experiment.
This is great. I've been struggling with a 100% whole wheat recipe. This video's given me a lot of clues and the model for the experiment. Thank you so much.
Thanks!
100% whole wheat is tricky. It will ferment much faster. And it can handle much higher hydration, typically than bread flour. I recommend pushing the hydration higher each time you bake until you find the maximum the flour can handle. Also, you won’t get a great windowpane with whole wheat, but I suggest still trying so you can get a feel for the dough as it is progressing through fermentation. .
@@thesourdoughjourney Great! I will follow your advise. I know my problem is in the fermentation, because sometimes I get amazing bread and sometimes I have to toss the unruly mass of dough in the bin (so frustrating!). But I know it can be done, so I won't give up. Cheers.
Enjoying these videos. Giving much insight on the development and how the chemistry of time, temp and fermentation works. Still developing my starter, and will be sure it looks good before I make my first loaf. I also bought the Tartine Bread book.
Thank you! These videos are a great companion to Tartine.
1.Which video is it where you explain bulk rise percentages and how to turn any container into an accurate vessel to determine % rise (you give a formula which uses 1.5x flour weight to determine volume of the dough)? 2. Does the formula still generally work when using a 65% hydration recipe as opposed to an 85% hydration recipe? So far, at least my on 70-80% hydration doughs, it is working really well.
Here at 48:43. 1.5x is based on 75% hydration. The difference at 70% is negligible. 65% might be closer to 1.4x.
th-cam.com/video/PL6wSOrd4L8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sY6SQAJh2B9K_CR5
@@thesourdoughjourney thank you!!
The one thing I would have liked to know is the kneading time after salt is incorporated. Since the gluten strength is important, the knead time really varies my crumb. How long did you knead by hand (or by machine). I tried Tartine recipe, but had to go to 6 minutes on level 2 on the Kitchenaid. Also, your dough looks stickier than mine, so hydration can definitely be different depending on the brand and composition of the flour, not just the baker’s percentage. Your’s isn’t quite ciabatta wet, but you sure get much bigger crumb like a high hydration recipe.
I do about 3 minutes of initial hand mixing, then another 3 minutes with the salt and reserved water. Tartine tends to undermix the dough, in my opinion. It is just barely mixed. The hydration is relative the the flour, for sure. With higher protein flours, the dough mixes up stiffer with the same hydration. And stiffer dough tends to “show the rise” a little more than wet dough.
This is a wonderful video it has really helped me a lot and given me more confidence seeing you go through it all, I think I can now make better choices. As always your videos are detailed and such quality thank you
Thank you.
Your dry tone and dry humour, made me lol. Thanks. I’m baking a loaf every 1-2 days, in total I have been baking about 2-3 months but started with yeast/poolish fermented breads for a month or so , then made my own starter and moved on to wild yeast/sourdoughs. I am an experienced/confident home cook though, so I believe I have a head start, based on intuition. I’ve had 1-2 flatties. But have had mostly beautiful loaves, never using a recipe as such, only the bakers percentage guidelines, baking between 70-95% hydration loaves along the way. I don’t exactly know when the perfect bulk ferment is over. I generally do 3 stretch and folds at 30 min intervals, then when that is done, I generally put 3hrs on the timer and come to pre shape when those 3-3.5 hours are up. I am here to learn what to look for within the dough when bulk is done. Thanks.
Thank you. A lot of it depends on the room temperate and dough temperature. If you keep your dough cool 70F/21C, you have a much larger window to work with. If your kitchen and dough is warm, it is more difficult to catch it at the right moment.
@@thesourdoughjourney Currently winter here in Australia, much chillier temps in my kitchen but I am proofing/bulking in a warmer room, probably 25 degrees Celsius. On the days my loaves
Get very warm, I see much stickier and harder to work dough, I guess that’s over fermentation, or definitely bordering on it, then I move it to fridge overnight to bake in the morning. I am loving experimenting, and watching experiments such as these. Thank you!
In my quest...which is getting better....this has been so helpful...thanks so much.
Thank you!
This was SUPER helpful and I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge!
Thanks!
Really excellent and informative video! thanks for taking the time to do this. I particularly enjoyed you talking to your dough...! I do that too.
Thanks. Also check out episodes 3 and 4 of this series where I expand on this experiment. And I have some great tools on my new website at thesourdoughjourney,com
@@thesourdoughjourney Thanks, I'm checking those out now. Brilliant resources
Tom, this is an excellent and informing video. Thanks for putting this together; I’m beginning to use preferments in my bread baking and this answers a lot of questions I’ve had.
Thank you for the feedback.
Very much appreciate all the time you put into these videos. May I ask though, do you bake straight out of the fridge, or do they rest on the bench for a period of time?
Thank you. Straight from the fridge to preheated Dutch oven. Best ovenspring that way.
I absolutely love this video!! Quick question. Toward the end of the video you said you can finish bulk fermentation on the counter or in the refrigerator. Due to time constraints of a busy schedule I have started doing bulk in my refrigerator, not really knowing what I was doing. The next day I take it out and let it finish. I have had the most successful doing this but often wondered about the science behind this. Is this really a thing? I’m still learning so if this is a silly question please forgive me 🙏🏻
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Thank you for these videos. I am brand new to sourdough baking. These have helped me more than anything else I've found (books, Facebook Groups, other videos).
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback. Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com
Thanks for the video. It will be very helpful if you can show the close up of the dough (top and side). Especially, if you show all the dough in a side by side comparison.
Thanks for the feedback. I do this in some of the later videos in this series. I show many more closeups and comparisons throughout the process.
Excellent informative video that has explained some of the issues (disasters!!) that I've encountered. One trick I've learned from "The Bread Code" videos is to place a small amount of dough in a small glass jar so I can accurately judge the percentage rise. Have you Tom a link to your preferred recipe.
Thank you. Yes, that is a good method also. Here is my preferred recipe. tartinebakery.com/stories/country-bread
Thank you for making this video. I've been on this for a couple years; but I'm determined to make it right!
Thank you! Also check out Episodes 3 and 4 of this series for a continuation of this experiment. And I have some great new tools on my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com
I would endorse this gentleman. I have been attempting to get some facility with sourdough bread, and feel safe in saying that this is the finest learning channel available. I would stick with Tom Cucuzza if you are serious.
Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.
Wow I love all your video so detailed n comprehensive . I am a beginner and learned a lot also learn from my failure to made the SD/ loave. Thank you 🙏 😃 💃
Thank you for the feedback.
Chills! Cool uploads! Feels good today. Never tired of these. ! 😆
the ending got me puzzle btw.
Thanks.
Well done Tom! This is so helpful to my "autopsies".
Thank you. I plan to do more like this in this series.
Autopsies lol that’s brilliant.
Love your content and how you explain, so detailed. And I needed this video today tbh so really appreciate!
Thank you. I appreciate the feedback!
What would be the approximate size of the loaf pans with the wooden inserts? I’ve tried baking 200g flour weight loaves in a 9x5” loaf pan as my banneton, but have found that it makes my dough come out flat, and the lame is getting caught with the dough, ultimately baking up like a frisbee. Is there a guide to creating the types of wooden inserts you have? Maybe using cardboard as an alternative? Thank you for these amazing videos.
Thank you! The metal loaf pans are about 8”x3”. The inserts take about 1/2” off of that on all sides. I had to make them through trial and error cutting the two angles. It was not difficult if you have compound miter saw. You could use cardboard. Or crumpled foil. There are all kinds and sizes of metal loaf pans out there. And they are inexpensive. Keep looking and try different sizes. Too small is better than too big.
@@thesourdoughjourney Great ideas, I appreciate the suggestions :).
Where you removed the dough from the refrigerator, did you warm it up to 78-82 degrees before attempting to reshape the dough?
For these experiments I don’t do any shaping. I go directly from fridge to oven.
Thank you for the detailed instructions. Can you do an experiment on how different breads taste with bulk fermentation temperature variations? Thanks again.
Yes, I have done a few taste tests in some of the videos but have found that variations in bulk fermentation time, percent rise, starter percentage do not have much of an impact on flavor. The vast majority of the flavor differences occur in the final proofing, especially the cold retard. I have a video on this topic, "The Long, Cold Proof."
This was very educating. I struggle a lot, mostly of my roomtemperature of 20°C. So I definitely have to bulkferment a lot longer
Thanks for the feedback. Here’s a whole video at 21C. th-cam.com/video/HTKrdSOUJWs/w-d-xo.html
@@thesourdoughjourney wauw!! Thank you very much!!
Thank you! Your video helped me understand what I did wrong and ways I can improve. Really appreciated.
Thank you for the feedback.
Question you took it out of original bowl at the end of SF and divided it and SF IT again so I would think you would have stretched out some of bubbles and for sure brought down the height. I BF the entire mass of 6 loafs in the container when I see the bubbles and jelly like texture I feel BF is done then I form twice then put in baskets then CR. So what’s the difference.
Good question. I’m measuring the percent rise from the level of the dough when I initially mixed it, not the starting level after S&Fs nor dividing). I had the bowls all marked with the original mixed dough startling point (total batch was 1500ml / 4 = 375ml).
The dough also does not rise much in the first few hours, so I’ve found any differences caused by handling to be incredibly minimal on the outcome. I’m still measuring from the “mixed” level as the starting point, and the vast majority of the rise happens in the last 1-2 hours of bulk fermentation.
hello very nice video. would have been very interesting to check the pH at the end of the bulk fermentation of each sample. that ould be tremendously helpful....
I bought a pH a meter for these experiments but the readings were very inconsistent. I need to upgrade to a higher quality meter.
Right now attempting to make a polish to make a pampkim, a purple sweet potato and a 80% wheat bread. The sweet potato and pampkim ferment very fast.
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Tom can you point me to the video or section where you talk about the impact of longer bulk fermentation in relation to what else is happening in the dough. I am in the uk and rooms are frequently much cooler during bf.
Thank you
These tables show typical BF times, down to 16C. You can extrapolate lower. thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Bulk-Fermentation-Timetables-V1.0.pdf
Here is an example of very cool BF thesourdoughjourney.com/experiment-24-hour-bulk-fermentation-using-a-cold-proofer/
The second half of this video is all about, cool BF. th-cam.com/video/PL6wSOrd4L8/w-d-xo.html
Thank you
Thanks Tom. Really super work! May I suggest you freeze some of the bread. That's too much bread to eat.
Thank you. I often slice and freeze the loaves. I have sourdough toast every day.
Thank you so much for this video! It tied in so much of what I'm learning and helped it all make a lot more sense. Wow! That was a ton of effort on your part and so appreciated! Thank you!
Thank you! Also check out Episode 3 and 4 of this series where I introduce a tool to assist this this method. I also have a helpful video and guide on How to Read a Sourdough Crumb that can be helpful also.
@@thesourdoughjourney I'll check it out, thank you!
I would say the bowls used, smaller at bottom, are not telling you a true rise percentage straight- sides help to be as accurate as possible - 👍
You are correct, but I fill the bowls either water and make milliliter hash marks on the blue tape. To be accurate.
I've been sourdough baking for a year now and have come a long way, but I've still had some issues with consistency. I've watched dozens of videos on sourdough baking, and this is by far the most helpful I've seen!
I have a question. Suppose I want to bake the same day that I make the dough, would you recommend you lean towards underproofed dough at the end of the bulk fermentation, like loaf one, since the dough temperature would stay consistent during the 2-3 hours of the final rise, as opposed to cooling in the fridge?
Thank you. Yes, slightly underprooof then do a countertop rise for 2-3 hours.
This channel is a gold mine. I'm getting free advanced lessons. I feel like I should be paying lol!
Thank you!
Thorough and excellent instruction. Thank you!
Thank you. Also check out episode 3 of this series where I expand on this concept.
Awsome exterior exterior loaf reading. Thanks!
Thanks. 🙏
I would say trying to watch all your videos is definitely to much information for me to comprehend in 1 week and I have asperger and despite that I didn't come up with idea of measuring some parameters that you do in my 3 years journey of sourdough baking. You are really crazy to measure so many aspects and conducting so many experiments and analysis.
Thank you for the feedback.
This was a great experiment to show how just a little bit of time can completely change the fermentation of the dough. I've only been baking sourdough for a few months and I've really struggled with wet sticky dough. Finally cracked the code on hydration but ending fermentation perplexes me. It seems to rise/peak/dome/jiggle when I'm totally not ready to continue the process (ie, midnight and I want to sleep!) Do I pop it in the fridge at that point or let it go till morning? Also Im getting at least 50-60 percent rise. Is that much before first shape?
Thanks. Check out Episode 3 and 4 also.