Understanding BULK fermentation. The KEY step for OPEN CRUMB and FLAVOR development. | JoyRideCoffee
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2020
- Hope this video will help us understanding bulk fermentation. I always looked for shortcuts to make an "amazing" bread. As I saw on the internet, on social networks. But shortcuts were always hard to find. The only certainty I have at the moment is that the key to a tasty & "wow" bread stay in the bulk fermentation stage.
Bulk fermentation begins when the starter is added to the dough. It ends when the dough is turned out for preshaping or shaping. Both, underproofing and overproofing it will destroy any chance of getting open crumb. The bulk period is what makes a bread tasty and full of flavors. The longer the bulk, the greater the flavors of fermentation your bread will develop. The art consists in the fact that the fermentation must be long enough to obtain the maximum flavor but at the same time not too long so as not to compromise the structure of the dough. In addition, a properly leavened bread will stay fresh for several days. So, the skill of the baker is to find the equilibrium between proper flavor development and structural development.
Here I tried to make a video in which we can see as explicitly as possible the evolution of the bulk fermentation and the results that can be seen in the crumb. Of course, the experiment could have been better and it would have been especially interesting to see what the crumb looks like after a bulk of 7-8-9 hours for this flour. But my ability to produce bread is limited. I hope the video will help you anyway.
For 3 loaves:
875g - white flour Molino Verrini type "0"
100g - wholemeal flour
765g - water
190g - sourdough starter
22.5g salt
Method:
2 hours autolyse, knead with starter, 30 mins. rest, knead with salt, 30mins. rest, bench strong fold, 30 mins. rest, lamination, 60 mins. rest, first coil fold, 90mins. rest.
Loaf 1: shaping, final proofing for 17hours in the fridge
Loaf 2: coil fold, rest 60 mins., shaping, final proofing for 17hours in the fridge
Loaf 2: coil fold, rest 60 mins., coil fold, rest 60 mins., shaping, final proofing for 17hours in the fridge
Bake as usual on the steel plate for 10 minutes at 240 degrees Celsius with steam and 35 minutes at 210 degrees Celsius without steam.
see my baking method here: • Post
If you're like me animated by the same passion, subscribe & comments are most welcome.
I have made for my followers a list of essential tools for baking bread at home. These are my personal choices based on experience so far. Remember, buying from these links makes my JoyRideCoffee journey to continue.
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Inspired by:
- Trevor Jay Wilson: / trevorjaywilson
- Kristen (fullproofbaking): / fullproofbaking
At "I don't believe in recipes" you got me. Love that!
Thank you so much for this! I appreciate that you are trying to show us 1 specific variable at a time. The difference is really interesting to see! Thank you for your efforts!
Thank you Sharon!
you handle the dough like a pro! Very inspiring. Thank you!
Thank you for the video, I was struggling for almos a year and finally could make a open crumb bread🙌🏼 Soo Happy 😃
This is the first accurate video I’ve seen for a high hydration dough
yOURE SO GOOD AT HAND KNEADING WOW notes taken
Thank you very much, this is much and much more insightful then many many youtube videos... you cut right down to the point!!
Thank you Paul!
This is so helpful! I am a beginner and this really helped me understand bulk fermentation.
A danish dough whisk, my favourite ‘new’ kitchen tool.
Your remarks are right to the point. The gap between the 1st and 3rd loaf needs to be well planned as usually most flours do not stand so many hours and sometimes it's difficult to do the shaping right. But the experiment was successful since it showed clearly the difference between the "fool's crumb" and a lacy open one. Bulk fermentation is the key indeed but as we all are amateurs, it's hard to make the time to ferment for 6 hours. No need to say, the well fermented bread jumps to another level. Thank you for taking the time to do the experiment and present it wrapped with nice music and beautiful scenery!!
Thank you Niki! :)
the first loaf isn't a fool's crumb. fool's crumb looks like a dense bread with just a few huge holes in it and is caused by structural folds rather than fermentation.
the first loaf has irregular open crumb, but they are all from fermentation.
@@beeobama6091 I agree, there's a lot of folks who post pics lamenting their "fool's crumb" and in like 80% of those cases the crumb COULD be better and more open, but in reality are just like loaf #1 here which is a perfectly serviceable and probably delicious loaf. I struggled with actual fools crumb early on in my sourdough journey and the difference between an actual fool's crumb loaf and loaf #1 here is vast.
Thanks so much. Now I understand better the effect of bulk fermentation on the crumbs. Appreciate your generosity in sharing your experience and thoughts in such clear presentation.
Thank you!
And it is the first time I see some score so deep. Good inspiration!
This video was so helpful. Watching you go through the steps 3 times made something click for me. My husband told me the bread was my best ever. Thank you for your steps. They have made a world of difference!
Absolutely fascinating! your dough handling skills are amazing!! really enjoyed this video, it was quite the education on the process.
Thank you Mr Joyride for sharing this awesome video and so glad that I can learn so much from you 🙏🏻😊💞
Thank you Jeanie!
Well, duh?... now anyone gets it! Bravo! A lot of work put into something; deserves for it to be well done. A+
Outstanding! Wow!
Understanding the science was the first step of getting good breads for me 😌👌🏽
Well cooking is chemistry, true
That’s what I’ve been trying to figure out tooo! I’m trying out what I learned today as we speak, hoping for good results. I want to get my bread perfect! 🥖
Thank you for the tutorial. You’ve inspired me to push my bulk ferment longer than I typically do and continue improving on my shaping technique.
Thank you, that's the idea to improve and try something more, bake by bake.
Good video. Annoying music.
Really impressed by the scientific rigor, kept all the variables the same bar one, well done!
Wow! So incredibly informative. I’ve wondered how to improve my breads. Thank you so much for the techniques for folding and fermenting times and explanations of what’s happening.
Thank you Tami!
First of all, thanks for all your videos! They are really inspiring. I've always found it hard to understand if I'm letting the bulk go far enough or too far. Watching your videos has certainly helped as has reading "Open Crumb Mastery". Since you're now doing videos with multiple loaves, looking at effects of differences in staging, I was wondering if you could do a video or two where you look at how you ferment the loaf and calibrate your timings with a small (maybe 50-100g) piece of dough just after you've added salt+levain but which you leave in a glass (so you can judge how it rises without being subject to manipulation). The idea would be to mark the glass with the 100g calibration dough at its initial volume and then show the volume of the calibration piece at the end of bulk and at the end of proofing. Anyway, just a thought! Thanks again!
I came back and was eager to try it. Thank you for sharing knowledge
Thank you!
thanks for the video. It is a pleasure to see you work.
Thank you!
I find the video very helpful! Thanks for sharing ❤️
Appreciate your videos, you've really helped me gain more confidence handling high hydrations doughs
You explained fermentation beautifully. Thank you for making these informative videos.
My mouth is watering looking at these pieces of bread. I LOVE bread! I'll take a piece of crusty bread dipped in good sauce or with butter over any fancy desert.
Great video!! Thx for all the time and work. Very helpful!
It is a great happiness to watch your way to make bread.
Great experiment! I admire your commitment to the teachings of Kristen Dennis and Trevor Wilson. Your dough seemed like slightly higher hydration that Kristen's basic sourdough but you have her technique down... all the way to her pyrex dish for your bulk. I love using the pyrex dish too. I am reading Trevor's e-book now. Its a lot to absorb (pun intended). Great video.
I'm so glad I found you! I like to immerse myself into learning something, from the inside, out. I'll have to watch a couple of your videos more than once, but I enjoy that.
I've made breads before, but your way is so much more precise. I'm going to enjoy going through every video.
Amazing yet again
Thank you!
wow, looks sooo lovely💜
👍👍👍well done. Excellent find although very time comsuming. Bravo.
They all look delicious!
Thanks for your time and effort.
Sourdough is a mystery that keeps one's interest for a lifetime.
I wish I had the time and patience for this!
need just passion :)
Thanks for the really informative video! I usually bulk for similar 6-7hr time period, but complete any folds during the early stages of the bulk for fear of degassing the dough during the later stages. Do you find it's necessary to do folds during the later stages? Does this contribute towards a more even crumb?
Amazing hands and patience! You are no amateur! I have found that the flour and water both have a significant impact on the fermentation process. Would like to see similar experiments with different flours and different water hardness/PH.
Bravo! 👏👏👏
Hi, thank you! Sure flour and water have significant impact! Agree!
Extremely long life to you, Mr. Joyride !!! This is the one thing that I only get right by accident 😕😕so happy to be getting this information here 😊👏👏
It looks like a roughly 30% increase is a good time to shape ? Also can see that the dough is perfectly kneaded, bec it laminates and folds so neatly 👌
I am doing the same right now at 24,5 Celsius. Looks good so far!
Thank you! :)
You won me over with the first sentence! Trying this today. Hopefully it goes well.
Thank you!
Thank you very much. Beautiful and very informative video. Thank you for investing your time to show this experiment
Thank you!
Thanks for this video and all the advice, Joy! I will certainly try this method to see if I manage to get a more open crumb. One question, do you have an idea about the temperature of your kitchen, when you made the video?
Thank you for this video! It's a very helpful experiment for me.
The paradox of “not using recipes” and then using a recipe.. doesn’t matter if you don’t write it down.. you know how much to put of everything. That’s a recipe.
I would call his eyeballing of water and flour an educated guesscipe
Recipe for disaster
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a bowl of water, a bucket of water, 3 buckets of milk, 2 eggs, orange, banana, any dye except red, yellow, or orange,
Spice or gnome spice, gloves (ice gloves are preferred), charcoal, fishing bait, fishbowl, 2 bread, a pestle and mortar, a needle, 3 bronze wires, a cake tin, 4 Asgarnian ale (6 recommended),
Any cat except an overgrown cat (a wily cat is recommended), several bowls of stew (9 at most), raw chompy (several recommended in case of burning), raw chicken, raw cod, iron spit, regular logs, tinderbox, ball of wool, ogre bellows, ogre bow and several ogre arrows (10 is enough), 2 pots of flour, pot of cornflour (or raw sweetcorn and an empty pot), pot of cream, any axe, any pickaxe, any machete, a knife, Dramen staff and branch, M'speak amulet, Gorilla, ninja and zombie greegree, monkey nuts, and some rope.
The recipe of a bread like this is not only the list of ingridients, and how much of them.
The recipe contains proofing times, volumes.
For exaplme. A classic sourdough bread recipe calls for 20% starter, and 4 hours of bulk at 26 C. What is your starter is much faster? Or slower? Your bread will be over or underproofed. If you only look the recipe(times for example), you wont have a good end result. But if you look the bread, the sings of fermantation, which is also a part of a recipe, then you will achieve amazing breads. 😊
oh wow. are you okay?
Thank you, very helpful video, saved me days of testing
love the video, the bread and the music
Interesting experiment ! 👏
Multumesc :)
What do you spread on the table before laminating? Is that water or oil?
Thank you for this information!
You are actually an expert! 👏👏
Watching you play with your dough is mesmerizing--especially after whiskey and coke on an empty stomach. Really nice video. Subscribed.
Try making a dryer dough, I surprised myself the other day leaving a dough a bit shaggy but as it sat in a few risings then foldings, the texture became a little smoother, more elastic, then final bake a little denser crumb than yours, but tasty, fun learning and practicing this art with different types of flour and timing and learning autolyse !
So I would be happy if I made any of these. I aspire to handle wet dough that well. Although 2 & 3 look more uhhhh say useful for sandwiches.
Great video! Thanks for sharing! .. There is an interesting paradox in sourdough breadmaking .. while the process of stretch and folds and lamination during bulk work to multiply and organize the gluten matrix (often incorrectly described as "strengthening the gluten", since the actual gluten was formed when water met flour) .. the addition of the levain introduces the process of fermentation which works to simultaneously weaken the gluten, which is actually an objective of bulk fermentation .. The reason why your first loaf had such an open, uneven crumb was because the gluten was too strong and the gluten matrix was uneven throughout the dough .. with subsequent loaves, coils and time, the gluten mellowed and the matrix evened out .. while staying inside the time limit during which the gluten can continue to provide structure .. Which is where retarding comes in .. to halt the more more aggressive fermentation activity of the yeasts, while allowing the lactic acid bacteria to continue to help develop flavor, without risking the structure of the dough, and eventual loaf ..
Great comment too. I agree!
Thanks for this video. Your baking method resembles mine, although my breads have a lot less hydration than yours. Still having problems handling high hydration doughs, so I need a lot more practice.
"who masters this" ? You do my friend.
This has provided me with a lot of information that will hopefully help me get closer to where I want to be on my journey to making decent sourdough. I've had some successes, and lots of failures. So much of this is understanding the science (right down to the cellular level and the chemical reactions that are going on), but equally important is understanding that there are a bunch of wild card variables that you have to contend with including type of flour, room temperature, hydration level, bulk fermentation process and duration, and shaping technique. Getting any one of these elements wrong can ruin your day. You have to develop a sense for what is right every step of the way, and that requires being aware of what is actually happening in the process.
The baking stage is the easy part.
Hi there! Your videos have been amazing and I am going to try your methods this weekend. I do want to ask, after you pull your dough from fermentation out of your fridge overnight, do you allow any proofing outside of the fridge or do you go straight to scoring and preheated oven?
Thanks again!
You are a master. I would LOVE to see you do the same thing with 100% freshly-milled whole grain flour.
Was really helped me! Thanks a lot!!!😍😍😍👍💕
From Busan
appreciate the effort, learn a few things. but the music man... I had to mute the video, 18 minutes listening to that, not easy
I don't "hit" the music every time. Sorry :)
Me too!
although i loved the beat but the repeat was annoying part :D
I like the music. If you have issues then just mute it. How hard is that?
Play Edith Piaf instead! :-)
man... you have magic non-stick hands :)) Amazing work!
thank you! :)
Hahahaa i agree! Am in awe of those non-stick hands!
ever heard about water or oil?
@@staz334 oil to handle dough? Never heard about it.
@@pufarinu very common actually, you think Joy's dough comes out the container like that without oil? ;D
"Who masters all this". Not me but it still tastes great!
Ferments do everything, not us.That's the miracle.
Super video and next good lesson . Thank you ☺️😍👏
Thank you Ella!
They all look good to me.
Thank you for this video :)
I am doing the same right now at 24 Cesius. Looks good so far!
24 is the magic temperature where Yeast and Lactobacillus are about equally active. Popular temperature in French artisan bakeries apparently.
Awesome, thanks!, what would happened if you left them more time in the fridge?
Hi Mr Joy Ride Coffee, I live in the tropics with 32 degree Celsius and 80% air humidity. Should I modify bulk fermentation timings since your temperature is 22-23 degree Celsius? Thank you.
18:09 That is exactly what that is. In fact, most of them look a bit like "fools crumb" to me. Here's the thing I've discovered about sourdough. People are making it way, way too complicated and playing with their dough too much. The process in this video is a great example. A ton of regular air pockets were introduced because the dough was kneaded, laminated, folded too much. I've had awesome results by simply doing a 30 minute to 2 hour autolyse and then simply doing the fold technique (the one you did in the glass container except stretch a bit more before folding over) maybe 5 times. Then shape and in the fridge for however long is needed to proof. That's it! No kneading, no lamination, no stretch/fold on the counter etc etc. Just mix it, fold it while it bulks, proof it and bake it. Since I've been doing it this way my crumb has had very nice holes that are evenly spaced but not too big (a few decent sized ones) and great oven spring. I also think you over bulked all of them to be honest. I usually stop my bulk after they've clearly grown but with a lot of room left to grow. These look like they were all pretty much at the very end of the bulk. Makes sense because when you took them out of the bannetons they flattended out considerably which means you might have over proofed.
Yep!
*Буду печь хлеб, спасибо за науку!*
Awesome video thanks
just thank you!!!
thank you!
Amazing work man! I bake for years now, but sadly (for the bread) i have too many interest, work and animals to be able to play with dough this way. Just noe entering the calm year period to start this :) you teached me a lot today! Thank you :) and a side question - i toughtim watching a US or Canada baker, then got confused by metric system u use, and rhen you cracked me with mentioning Danube bridge!!! Im in Slovakia, how close you must be? (In the season i will have no time to bake, so i beg you - pls become my bread supplier :D )
thanks for the experments, your vedio explain so many problems, thanks so much.
Very informative. Thank you. I'm also starting to learn the hard way that recipes don't really matter aside of what concerns fermentation. What's is most important is to know what you're working with and don't rush as this can take a good amount of time. I've been trying to bake for almost an year now (btw I started before the pandemic, just in case) and I still don't get close to the structure in the video. But the flavour satisfies me. That's good and helps me to keep learning to get better results.
Thank you, I guess here there are some shortcuts: th-cam.com/users/postUgz7R3-wMSqPB9YOatB4AaABCQ
@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee thank you! Hadn't seen this post before. I'll have a look at it
Thanks for the video.
If the bulk was about 10 h for example what could change?the alveoli could be more uniform?and the starter quantity could change your opinion?
صراحه مافي فرق بينهم كلهم جميلات 😍😍😍👏👏👏👏👏
Thanks for this experimental video! I wonder if there's a difference in taste?
thanks for sharing! question: why do you pop the bubbles on the surface when coil folding? i hear maintenance of all bubbles being emphasised in every other tutorial or is that different?
When my dough is of that consistency I end up with two big mittens of dough. Without the use of my hands, I can not free myself. I sit on a chair and wait for my wife to come home and clean my hands. It is very surreal to see you manage such a sticky dough. You obviously have dough superpowers. I am jealous.
If you have a high hydration dough, spray your hands with water. At 3:10 when he starts his folds, you can see his hands are wet
see here, no magic, just water :) th-cam.com/video/vSnAjDJy_4s/w-d-xo.html
LOL
@@jobrown04 Yes! I purchased a nice spray bottle just for this purpose (and to spray my dough). :-)
....and my work surface!
Thank you for another great video. As always a pleasure to watch and learn. I guess more folds would have contributed to more even crumb (on the third loaf).
Thank you. Sure more folds will help for more even crumb. (even is quite high risk of damaging the crumb by late folds)
Ronan, #3 has clear signs of being over proofed, with the rest of the crumb being ok.
I like that you say "help us" understand, instead of "help you".
Your hands and technique are so consistent, which makes these experiments great! I would love to see your typical method compares to simply mixing the flour, water, salt, and starter together at the very beginning (skipping autolyse and such). How does the autolyse and adding the salt/starter in stages make a difference in the final crumb?
you can see here a no knead loaf: th-cam.com/video/NgSMhtRw_pU/w-d-xo.html
The rest of my idea remains, I develop gluten well at the beginning before the fermentation starts.
Very informative video-thanks! May I ask where you get your bannetons? Thanks!
Hi, thank you! There are from a local website: www.moaradecereale.ro/produse/cos-de-pulpa-lemn-0-75kg-oval-23x14-5x8cm-model-crestat/
Can you provide any comments about temperatures? Such as flour and water temperatures for autolyse? And, I think the room temp is too hot where I am, I'm not sure if I can do this well because I'll either be dealing with room temps that are high or refrigeration that is much cooler. Or I could setup a bedroom at a crisp 20C if needed but that's gonna use a lot of electric power. It seems like when kneading the dough in warm temperatures it gets too sticky. But I'm not sure if maybe the warmer temps maybe makes the kneading go faster or not. Thanks!
Hi there, livte your videos! Great job!! I can't seem to find the exact scraper you use. Where did you get it from?
Superb videos thank you, please can you tell me where your bread scraper came from.
Hi, thank you! It's from a local website: www.cofetarulistet.ro/ustensile-lucru-brutarie-patiserie-cofetarie/cutite-raschete/rascheta-inox-cu-maner-plastic-19-5-x-14-5-cm-ras-3.html
Hi, thanks for the awesome video, i have learned alot. i have only one question, why is my bread ringed with flour from the banneton and yours are not?
Would the bulk fermentation stage be to 125%, 150% or doubling of original amount of dough?
The second loaf has more chunks among all those alveoli. The third one looks more open and airy, no chunks in the crumb at all.
It is interesting how changing some parameters can change the final result. I guess if you do the exact same experiment but changing hydration, or % of starter you'd get different results.
True. Everything you wrote is true. Thanks :)
Awesome video. So in depth and really appreciate the side by side comparison from beginning to end of three different fermentation lengths. Been struggling to bake baguettes with airy crumb. Not sure if it's because it doesn't use a starter or if I'm kneading it too much, or not fermenting it enough. The crumb usually comes out too dense and uniform. Wonder if you or anyone here can help. I mix the ingredients and let it proof for 45 minutes before folding it a few times, and do that 4 times before shaping (total of 3 hours proofing time). Then, I let it rest for an hour before putting it in the oven.
Looks like you do a lot of folding and the crumb still comes out beautifully. That leads me to believe that I should maybe let the dough rest much longer after shaping.
Here is my method for baguettes, bit different. With early shape: th-cam.com/video/kyPaygI4OPY/w-d-xo.html
@@BreadbyJoyRideCoffee Thanks so much! Checking it out now.
Plans to built the shoulder plane would be wonderful. Maybe a holiday project..
I like the blue handle bench scrapper u used in this video. Not the Oxo in your list. May I know where I can get it?
Nice! And what would happen if we forgo the guesswork and leave to bulk ferment (after a suitable number of coil folds and rests) in the refrigerator?
different temperatures, different flavors.
That was very useful and an appreciation for making it. I have a question: how long do you knead?
Thank you Mr. Joy Ride! Your loaves look incredible! At what temperature did you do all that?
22-23 degrees Celsius
I did my starter with rye and white flour, and store in the refrigerator. Since I don't bake often. First I left my starter in room temp, then used exact measures as in your recipe. Yet my dough became so sticky, it didn't come out and was unable to be knead as you did. However I still baked it, didn't rise and has a yeast taste. Do you cover the basket with flour before proofing and do you oil your hands and the plates before kneding?☺️
Hello, I just came across this video. Thank you for sharing the whole process and the amounts you used. The only thing I would like to know is the dough temperature, this is quite crucial if you are noting the bulk fermentation time. Thank you in advance, Janja