Thank you guys for taking care of me in regards to my experience last weekend and working with me on price. Went from the Bezzera Hobby to the Appartamento and really excited for this machine to come. Shoutout to Tracy (technical manager) for trying to make it right and assisting me through the process. I hope it comes in great condition with all the other accessories and things from WLL! Per Tracy’s recommendation, I tested my tap water and found the hardness to be at around 250ppm (TDS). I ended up calling the city to confirm and they said that was about right. I purchased the BWT Bestsave filter and plan to use that PLUS filtering my tap water through a Brita filter pitcher. Would this be okay to do and enough to prevent limescale, corrosion, or any other problems related to water with the Appartamento? I live in an apartment and can’t do any plumbing, so I am a bit stuck. The Penguin was recommended to me as well, which is currently out of stock, so I just got the Bestsave in the meantime to hold me over until I can switch to something else. Would appreciate any recommendations you have to ensure that my machine performs and warranty doesn’t get voided. Last thing: do you recommend to descale the machine at all with something like Dezcal and if so, how often? I anticipate to make 2-4 drinks per day :) Thanks Marc and the WLL team!
Hi Bobby, Thanks for the comment. I passed it along to Tracy. The BWT Bestsave should work well for your needs. Honestly do no need to use the Brita IMO. Sorry the Penquin is out of stock attm. I use one daily for filling various machines and also for drinking water. If you filter water with BWT ion-exchange filter products as directed descaling is not needed. As an HX machine be sure and turn over some water in the steam generating section of the boiler every now and then - maybe a couple times a week. That prevents minerals from concentrating which can happen if you only steam and don't use hot water. As for descaling... Again not needed if you properly filter water but some do it as a prophylactic measure. If you do that maybe 2x/yr. When using the Bestsave follow directions and allow 10 hour soak time for the filter to work. When done with machine for day refill reservoir so it's ready to go for next day. Hope that helps - enjoy your machine! Marc
Whole Latte Love thank you for all of that information, Marc! Do you guys have a video for the part you mentioned about turning over some water in the steam generating section of the boiler? If I do decide to descale twice per year, should I use Dezcale or Durgol Swiss Espresso Descaler? I noticed on the WLL website it says to use Durgol, but inside the Appartamento manual they advise not to descale. Thanks again!
Hi Eirik, That would be the Giotto Cronometro R: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/rocket-espresso-giotto-cronometro-r We currently have an open box Mozzafiato Cronometro R (Giotto and Mozzafiato are the same internally, only difference is external casework) that's ~$300 off the new price: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/refurbished-rocket-espresso-mozzafiato-cronometro-r-espresso-machine Marc
Todd and Marc you both are greatly full of knowledge I want to say thank you very much. One question I do have is when you raise the temperature of the water say above 200 as far as taste on the coffee does it get stronger, bitter or weaker ? Your opinion would help thank you. FYI. I personally like espresso as strong as possible very dark with dark Crema and thick. Which way would I go towards as far as a rocket machine?
Hi Maddog, Thanks for a great question! Brew water temperature is one of many variables. How it affects flavor depends on other variables. A general guideline is hotter for lighter roast, cooler for darker roast. Brewing hotter tends to make it stronger and more bitter but coffee variety, grind size and dose play a role. Have you tried ristretto shots? Based on your stated preferences you'd probably like. What type of beans do you like? Sounds like Italian style blends with some Robusta content would be up your alley. One of my favorites in that category is Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso It's a copious crema producer, syrupy and rich. It can be strong without being bitter. As for a Rocket machine... if you want to play with brew temps I'd go with a PID machine. Options are the HX boiler Giotto or Mozzafiato (same internals) available in vibration pump or rotary pump plumbable versions. Or there's the dual boiler R58. If considering a DB machine you might put the Profitec Pro 700 on your list (also ECM Synchronika with same internals as the PP700). It can do line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed. Long low pressure pre-infusion can help with those deeper extrations you're looking for. Rockets cannot do line pressure pre-infusion as they have a solenoid closing of line pressure unless the pump is running.
Whole Latte Love thank you for the information. I'm going to try the coffe you recommend too. This is the current coffee beans I use. Caffe Borbone the red bag one. www.caffeborboneusa.com/coffee-beans/ Thanks again
I'm confused, in the video you said the apartemento doesn't have insulation around the boiler but there was another apartemento that had insulation. Unless I mistook it for a different machine?
Hi Marc! I'm considering to get myself an Appartamento very soon & want to own it for many years to come, however regarding about Descaling it I'm aware that Rocket themselves do not recommend descale it by consumer thus must be done descale professionally by authorized Rocket Technician. Here is the problem I live in a country (living in Brunei) where espresso machine specialist does not exist, if I wanted to send back where I bought & does provide descaling it under Rocket authorized Technician may be least feasible for me as shipping cost to send back can be very expensive. So I may took the risk to descale on my own at home and follow up steps Tutorial on how to descale HX machine the video you posted few years back. It is advisable to descale at home or better send it back for professionally descale? Awesome video as usual Marc!
Hi HAZHY, Thanks for the question and kind comment. Some advice... It's best to use a water which does not cause scale in the first place. You do want some minerals in the brew water to prevent over-extraction of coffee and corrosion in the machine. Ultra-pure water like distilled or reverse osmosis water without remineralization can cause corrosion. If you have access to BWT products like this in your area it can prevent scale and eliminate the need to descale while maintaining a proper mineral level. BWT anti-scale reservoir pad filter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter BWT Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher If you do not have access to those products then it's reasonable for you to descale at home following my descaling video for HX boiler machines. Rocket recommends professional descaling as home descaling may be a bit to advanced for a few home users. There's also the risk of causing issues if descaling a neglected machine - one which has major scale deposits. So do not neglect descaling if you are unable to use water which does not cause scale in the first place. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for your quick respond Marc! Sure will follow up your suggestions either getting anti scale agent or descale on my own at home. Thanks again Marc!
Theo Souris you’re Welcome! Thanks for the comment. Think it’ll keep your cups a little warmer on top. Outside of machine will be a hair warmer but nothing crazy. Will use a bit more power. One could argue a little more warmth keeps things dryer inside.
Hi Kevin, Thanks for the question. We advise allowing for a warm up time of ~30 minutes with portafilter locked into the group. There are no Rocket Espresso sanctioned PID retrofits we are aware of. Adding a PID could in theory be done but it's a hack and you'll run into things like having to replace pressurestat with an actual temperature probe. Then lots of testing to find what boiler temp delivers your desired brew temp.
Great video. Could you do an indepth review on the appartamento (Instructional Video) and maybe also on some of the other Rocket machines besides the R60v?
Hi JB, Thanks for the comment and request. Will add your request to our production cue. For now best source of info on the full lineup of Rocket machines is in the hour long live presentation this video was pulled from. It's available here: th-cam.com/video/fq49vWM1-N0/w-d-xo.html In the meantime, if you have specific questions I'd be happy to answer them.
I was curious about using a smart plug for my Appartamento. Is that something you recommend ? A smart plug timer won’t damage the machine, Right? Thank in advance!
Hi Ryan, Thanks for the question. The Appartamento has a mechanical power switch so it will work fine so long as the plug is rated to handle the power load of the machine.
Hi G, So major differences... BZ10 uses an electrically heated group while the Appartamento uses an E61 group heated via thermo-siphon from the boiler. With the electrically heated group the BZ10 warms up faster. The Appartamento is a non-PID HX boiler machine. It will typically require a short cooling flush prior to making espresso. The BZ10 is non-PID and may need one as well but overall it produces more consistent brew temps due to the thermostatically controlled electrically heated group. Another difference are controls for steam and hot water. BZ10 uses levers while Appartamento use knobs. One is not necessarily better than the other - it's really about personal preference. Hope that helps! Marc
Mark/Todd, could you advise on cooling flushes for the appartamento. Todd mentioned that rocket have it pretty close but if I allow my rocket to completly warm up there is flash boiling when I run water through the group head.
Hi Howard, Yes, cooling flushes are usually required on non-PID heat-exchange machines. Flush until flow is smooth then brew immediately. You can adjust brew temp using flushes by going a few seconds longer for cooler or shorter for hotter. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for your quick reply although I really do not understand what difference a PID would make in this case as we are talking about HX machines and in both a PID and non PID machine the steam boiler is at steam temp...
I bought this machine and we have been trying to make espresso with it. The pressure was at around 1 bar, we used the Baratza Forté AP to grind at 2K (settings go between 1A and 10Z), which is recommended for Espresso, we tampered very lightly but the water only starts dripping at around 40 seconds and a shot is done in maybe 2-3 minutes. Way to slow of course. Is the machine somehow broken? And even though we used the recommended setting for the coffee, is it too fine? The water barely goes through even if we just flatten it with the tamper without pressure. Coarser coffee works, but I think even 1A should work with the machine if not tampered to much, right? Espresso is supposed to use very fine coffee...
Hi BG, Sounds like your grind is too fine if only getting drip at 40 seconds in. Keep in mind the pressure gauge is showing steam pressure in the boiler which has nothing to do with brew pressure on the coffee. It is possible there's a problem with the machine. You might try a flow rate test. Without a PF in place turn the pump on and measure how much brew water comes out of the group in 20 seconds. You can measure volume in milliliters or if you have a scale measure weight in grams. Divide either by 20 to get grams per second of flow from the group. A typical flow rate for a vibration pump machine is about 8g/s. but a range of 5 - 10g/s can indicate normal operation. If flow is under 5g/s then there might be a pump issue or something else going on. At that point I'd contact service. If purchased from Whole Latte Love in US give our tech support a call at 585-924-7170 and they'd be happy to help. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi! Thanks for your input, you were spot-on I believe. I have a very dark roast and I used a bit too much coffee combined with a fine grind. That didn't turn out too well. It took me way too much time though to figure that one out. Thank you!
Hi M, Thanks for the question. There's a brew pressure gauge on the front of the machine. You'd test/adjust by inserting a blind (backflush) basket in the PF and lift the lever of the E61 group. From there adjust pressure to produce ~10bar on the gauge. 10 on the gauge gets you 9 max when brewing due to the overhead of internal hydraulics, upstream pressure measurement and vibration pump. Marc
@@muriaticfpv2328 Late answer so you may have found out already but there is a port on the front of the brew head that will accept a pressure gauge to show brew pressure. I'm sure if you wanted a case mounted one there's a way to internally plumb one but I have not looked into that. I am interested in this machine and I will definitely be adding the pressure gauge on the brew head if I end up getting it.
Why would one need to wait a few minutes to steam the milk for another latte as commented? I am confused as I thought the point of this machine was double boiler and such to be able to make more milk based drinks faster?
Hi NSL, The Appartamento uses a heat-exchange boiler. It's not a dual boiler machine. As an HX machine it can brew and steam simultaneously. A few minutes of waiting between drinks is overstated. It should be ready to brew and steam again by the time you're done pouring the first drink, knocking out the PF, grinding for the next shot, tamping, loading, and refilling a pitcher with milk. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I heard milk based lattes Rocket is good but in terms of speed is the expobar better for this or another prosumer machine with less to no waiting time for milk based drinks(dual boiler)? It is the only reason I have not pulled trigger on the Gaggia classic. Thank you Marc!
When the shot was made on the appartamento the lever was only half way up. Was that intentional? Because I bought mine 2 weeks ago and still can't time a normal shot, the water flow is too fast (even though the grinding is already very fine). But I bring the lever all the way up as I thought should be done. Am I getting something wrong?
Hi GF, The switch behind the cam of the lever can be adjusted so the pump activates without fully raising the lever. Internally the valve in the E61group can open to a point which allows full brew water flow without the lever being fully raised. Even a partial opening of the valve should apply full pressure to the coffee. If you feel your extraction is too fast it's usually an indication your grind needs to be finer and/or use a higher coffee dose. What make/model grinder are you using? I doubt it's a machine issue. Unless your brew pressure is set abnormally high (very unlikely) with a decent espresso grinder you should be able to grind fine enough that you very little or no flow through the coffee. Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you very much for replying! :) I'm using Ceado E5P. The grinding size is already less than 1 and the espresso becomes very bitter, but the time to first drip is much less than 10 seconds (about 5) every time. Flow rate declines with decrease in grind size but still the coffee is either bitter (with decrease in grind size) or flows too fast (when I try not to have that strong bitter taste by increasing grind size).
Hi H, Thanks for the question. Sorry for the delayed response. Just back from Italy where spent a day at the Rocket factory and a day at the Profitec factory as well. The Pro 300 is a dual boiler machine with PID so you get precise brew water temp control. The Appartamento is an HX machine with no PID. Using the Appartamento you will do a cooling flush prior to brewing espresso to control brew temp - so a little more fussing around. The HX boiler in the Appartamento is larger at 60oz than the steam boiler in the Pro 300 at 25oz. So the Rocket machine may have a little more reserve power for steaming milk. If you are more about the espresso quality I recommend the Pro 300. If you are always doing milk drinks you may prefer the Rocket. Marc
Hi i, Thanks for the question. Really think it's a personal preference but I would typically go in range of 1:2 to 1:3. Did a video on brew ratios recently: th-cam.com/video/57UqPDirHoU/w-d-xo.html
hi! since the Appartamento comes with a 2-hole steam tip, will swapping in a 4-hole help with steaming at all? or is the boiler not gonna take advantage of it? thanks
Hi TW, Thanks for the question. Tips with more holes can give more vigorous steam. Can also go to fewer but larger holes. What works best for you comes down to personal preference and other factors like how much milk is in the pitcher. If steaming small amounts of milk in a 12oz pitcher for a single latte or capp it's unlikely you'd run out of steam using a 4 hole tip with smaller diameter holes. Marc
Hi Marc, need your input: my rocker appartamento brew temperature is is 68 to 70 degree Celsius i.e 154 to 156 F,coffee is sour; what to do; i am getting 88Degree C when water taken from hot water dispenser but brew water is 68-70 C
Hi kk, Thanks for the question. 88C out of the hot water tap is low! But, depends on how you are measuring temp. If dumping water into a cup and using an average thermometer you will get lower reading than using a thermo-couple type thermometer directly in the stream from the tap. You may need to adjust your pressure switch to turn up the temp. It's part 9 on page 6 of this diagram: wiki.wholelattelove.com/images/4/41/Appartamento_Parts_Diagram.pdf There could be something else going on. Marc
Hi Dirk, Thanks for the question. A rather large price difference between the two ~$700 more for the Magica, both use heat exchange boilers but the Magica is PID controlled. Magic has a dual gauge for boiler and brew pressure while the Appartamento has a boiler pressure gauge only. If you are not locked into the Magika have a look at the Profitec Pro 500 PID with Flow Control. It's an HX machine w/PID as well and is between the Rocket and Bezzera machines in price. The flow control is huge allowing for long pre-infusions and other capabilities of far more expensive machines: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control Marc
I love this machine so much, why has the price increased $200+ USD across the board, not just at Whole Latte Love. Can someone explain why? 😕 Great Video Guys!!!!!
Hi SM, Thanks for the comment. Prices are set by the manufacturer and most have a MAP policy so regardless of where you go pricing will be similar. As we are i the US and Rocket is out of Milan, Italy pricing may fluctuate due to currency exchange rates as well. Marc
own a rocket appartamento and completely dissatisfied with my machine a hose is nonreactive and spewing water into the interior of the machine and in turn is leaking everywhere i do not recommend this machine to anyone. I am in the process o refunding my $1,550 and buying a much better machine.
Hi AG, Sorry to hear you are having a problem with your machine! Did you purchase the machine from us? We do bench prep/test all prosumer level semi-auto machines prior to shipment. Every once in awhile something can shift in shipping. Usually fairly easy to fix a loose plumbing connection internally. If interested and you purchased from us we'd be happy to walk you through a repair.
Hi John, Thanks for the comment. I'm 100% certain Rocket would not recommend the Appartamento for use in a restaurant. It's intended for low volume home use.
Slightly off topic, but I appreciate the consistent enthusiasm of WLL videos.
Hey s, We do love coffee and espresso so it's hard not to be enthusiast - maybe a little hyped on the caffeine too!
Marc
Definitely the best vid on the Apartmento I've seen so far. Great work!
You shipped mine and will get it on 14 Oct. Can't wait!!! Love your vid's by the way. So helpful for a rookie.
Thank you guys for taking care of me in regards to my experience last weekend and working with me on price. Went from the Bezzera Hobby to the Appartamento and really excited for this machine to come. Shoutout to Tracy (technical manager) for trying to make it right and assisting me through the process. I hope it comes in great condition with all the other accessories and things from WLL!
Per Tracy’s recommendation, I tested my tap water and found the hardness to be at around 250ppm (TDS). I ended up calling the city to confirm and they said that was about right. I purchased the BWT Bestsave filter and plan to use that PLUS filtering my tap water through a Brita filter pitcher. Would this be okay to do and enough to prevent limescale, corrosion, or any other problems related to water with the Appartamento? I live in an apartment and can’t do any plumbing, so I am a bit stuck. The Penguin was recommended to me as well, which is currently out of stock, so I just got the Bestsave in the meantime to hold me over until I can switch to something else. Would appreciate any recommendations you have to ensure that my machine performs and warranty doesn’t get voided. Last thing: do you recommend to descale the machine at all with something like Dezcal and if so, how often? I anticipate to make 2-4 drinks per day :) Thanks Marc and the WLL team!
Hi Bobby, Thanks for the comment. I passed it along to Tracy. The BWT Bestsave should work well for your needs. Honestly do no need to use the Brita IMO. Sorry the Penquin is out of stock attm. I use one daily for filling various machines and also for drinking water. If you filter water with BWT ion-exchange filter products as directed descaling is not needed. As an HX machine be sure and turn over some water in the steam generating section of the boiler every now and then - maybe a couple times a week. That prevents minerals from concentrating which can happen if you only steam and don't use hot water. As for descaling... Again not needed if you properly filter water but some do it as a prophylactic measure. If you do that maybe 2x/yr. When using the Bestsave follow directions and allow 10 hour soak time for the filter to work. When done with machine for day refill reservoir so it's ready to go for next day. Hope that helps - enjoy your machine!
Marc
Whole Latte Love thank you for all of that information, Marc! Do you guys have a video for the part you mentioned about turning over some water in the steam generating section of the boiler? If I do decide to descale twice per year, should I use Dezcale or Durgol Swiss Espresso Descaler? I noticed on the WLL website it says to use Durgol, but inside the Appartamento manual they advise not to descale. Thanks again!
What's the most affordable Rocket that can be plumbed to a water source?
Hi Eirik, That would be the Giotto Cronometro R: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/rocket-espresso-giotto-cronometro-r
We currently have an open box Mozzafiato Cronometro R (Giotto and Mozzafiato are the same internally, only difference is external casework) that's ~$300 off the new price: www.wholelattelove.com/collections/semi-automatic-espresso-machines/products/refurbished-rocket-espresso-mozzafiato-cronometro-r-espresso-machine
Marc
Todd and Marc you both are greatly full of knowledge I want to say thank you very much. One question I do have is when you raise the temperature of the water say above 200 as far as taste on the coffee does it get stronger, bitter or weaker ? Your opinion would help thank you. FYI. I personally like espresso as strong as possible very dark with dark Crema and thick. Which way would I go towards as far as a rocket machine?
Hi Maddog, Thanks for a great question! Brew water temperature is one of many variables. How it affects flavor depends on other variables. A general guideline is hotter for lighter roast, cooler for darker roast. Brewing hotter tends to make it stronger and more bitter but coffee variety, grind size and dose play a role. Have you tried ristretto shots? Based on your stated preferences you'd probably like. What type of beans do you like? Sounds like Italian style blends with some Robusta content would be up your alley. One of my favorites in that category is Maromas Orphea: www.wholelattelove.com/maromas-orphea-whole-bean-espresso It's a copious crema producer, syrupy and rich. It can be strong without being bitter.
As for a Rocket machine... if you want to play with brew temps I'd go with a PID machine. Options are the HX boiler Giotto or Mozzafiato (same internals) available in vibration pump or rotary pump plumbable versions. Or there's the dual boiler R58. If considering a DB machine you might put the Profitec Pro 700 on your list (also ECM Synchronika with same internals as the PP700). It can do line pressure pre-infusion when plumbed. Long low pressure pre-infusion can help with those deeper extrations you're looking for. Rockets cannot do line pressure pre-infusion as they have a solenoid closing of line pressure unless the pump is running.
Whole Latte Love thank you for the information. I'm going to try the coffe you recommend too. This is the current coffee beans I use. Caffe Borbone the red bag one.
www.caffeborboneusa.com/coffee-beans/
Thanks again
Whole Latte Love oh and all I really do is Ristretto shots. Lol. In it Italian that means " Strong".
Is it possible to get a PID installed on the Rocket Appartamento?
I'm confused, in the video you said the apartemento doesn't have insulation around the boiler but there was another apartemento that had insulation. Unless I mistook it for a different machine?
Hi FB, All other Rocket machines have insulated boilers but not the Appartmento.
great video!
One question if u don't mind: In comparison would you go either for the 969 Elba 3 or rather choose Rocket Appartamento?
Hi Marc! I'm considering to get myself an Appartamento very soon & want to own it for many years to come, however regarding about Descaling it I'm aware that Rocket themselves do not recommend descale it by consumer thus must be done descale professionally by authorized Rocket Technician.
Here is the problem I live in a country (living in Brunei) where espresso machine specialist does not exist, if I wanted to send back where I bought & does provide descaling it under Rocket authorized Technician may be least feasible for me as shipping cost to send back can be very expensive. So I may took the risk to descale on my own at home and follow up steps Tutorial on how to descale HX machine the video you posted few years back.
It is advisable to descale at home or better send it back for professionally descale?
Awesome video as usual Marc!
Hi HAZHY, Thanks for the question and kind comment. Some advice... It's best to use a water which does not cause scale in the first place. You do want some minerals in the brew water to prevent over-extraction of coffee and corrosion in the machine. Ultra-pure water like distilled or reverse osmosis water without remineralization can cause corrosion. If you have access to BWT products like this in your area it can prevent scale and eliminate the need to descale while maintaining a proper mineral level.
BWT anti-scale reservoir pad filter: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter
BWT Penguin Pitcher: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher
If you do not have access to those products then it's reasonable for you to descale at home following my descaling video for HX boiler machines. Rocket recommends professional descaling as home descaling may be a bit to advanced for a few home users. There's also the risk of causing issues if descaling a neglected machine - one which has major scale deposits. So do not neglect descaling if you are unable to use water which does not cause scale in the first place.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks for your quick respond Marc! Sure will follow up your suggestions either getting anti scale agent or descale on my own at home. Thanks again Marc!
Thanks for posting. Would have been nice to know the dosing weight of the shot. I always like to know.
Spencer Reynolds You’re welcome. We’re usually 17-18g.
Great vid guys !! I’m interested to know how hot it gets without an uninsulated boiler and if this is a deal breaker or not.
Thanks from Abu Dhabi !
Theo Souris you’re Welcome! Thanks for the comment. Think it’ll keep your cups a little warmer on top. Outside of machine will be a hair warmer but nothing crazy. Will use a bit more power. One could argue a little more warmth keeps things dryer inside.
What is the warmup time? Can it be retrofitted with a PIP?
Hi Kevin, Thanks for the question. We advise allowing for a warm up time of ~30 minutes with portafilter locked into the group. There are no Rocket Espresso sanctioned PID retrofits we are aware of. Adding a PID could in theory be done but it's a hack and you'll run into things like having to replace pressurestat with an actual temperature probe. Then lots of testing to find what boiler temp delivers your desired brew temp.
Great video. Could you do an indepth review on the appartamento (Instructional Video) and maybe also on some of the other Rocket machines besides the R60v?
Hi JB, Thanks for the comment and request. Will add your request to our production cue. For now best source of info on the full lineup of Rocket machines is in the hour long live presentation this video was pulled from. It's available here: th-cam.com/video/fq49vWM1-N0/w-d-xo.html In the meantime, if you have specific questions I'd be happy to answer them.
I was curious about using a smart plug for my Appartamento. Is that something you recommend ? A smart plug timer won’t damage the machine, Right?
Thank in advance!
Hi Ryan, Thanks for the question. The Appartamento has a mechanical power switch so it will work fine so long as the plug is rated to handle the power load of the machine.
Whole Latte Love awesome thank you!!!
Thanks for the review .
Is there any different in milk steaming between the appartmento and evo 2 ??
Hi MK, Thank you for the comment and question. Not much difference. Boiler size is the same for the 2 machines.
Can you compare it to Bezzera? which one to choose?
Hi GS Which Bezzera machine?
BZ10. I know the differences in the specifications on paper, but I have a problem what to choose
Hi G, So major differences... BZ10 uses an electrically heated group while the Appartamento uses an E61 group heated via thermo-siphon from the boiler. With the electrically heated group the BZ10 warms up faster. The Appartamento is a non-PID HX boiler machine. It will typically require a short cooling flush prior to making espresso. The BZ10 is non-PID and may need one as well but overall it produces more consistent brew temps due to the thermostatically controlled electrically heated group. Another difference are controls for steam and hot water. BZ10 uses levers while Appartamento use knobs. One is not necessarily better than the other - it's really about personal preference. Hope that helps!
Marc
Does this machine have automatic pre-infusion? Thanks!
Hi P, Thanks for the question. The Appartamento has standard E61 pre-infusion
Marc
Mark/Todd, could you advise on cooling flushes for the appartamento. Todd mentioned that rocket have it pretty close but if I allow my rocket to completly warm up there is flash boiling when I run water through the group head.
Hi Howard, Yes, cooling flushes are usually required on non-PID heat-exchange machines. Flush until flow is smooth then brew immediately. You can adjust brew temp using flushes by going a few seconds longer for cooler or shorter for hotter.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage thanks for your quick reply although I really do not understand what difference a PID would make in this case as we are talking about HX machines and in both a PID and non PID machine the steam boiler is at steam temp...
I bought this machine and we have been trying to make espresso with it. The pressure was at around 1 bar, we used the Baratza Forté AP to grind at 2K (settings go between 1A and 10Z), which is recommended for Espresso, we tampered very lightly but the water only starts dripping at around 40 seconds and a shot is done in maybe 2-3 minutes. Way to slow of course. Is the machine somehow broken? And even though we used the recommended setting for the coffee, is it too fine? The water barely goes through even if we just flatten it with the tamper without pressure. Coarser coffee works, but I think even 1A should work with the machine if not tampered to much, right? Espresso is supposed to use very fine coffee...
Hi BG, Sounds like your grind is too fine if only getting drip at 40 seconds in. Keep in mind the pressure gauge is showing steam pressure in the boiler which has nothing to do with brew pressure on the coffee. It is possible there's a problem with the machine. You might try a flow rate test. Without a PF in place turn the pump on and measure how much brew water comes out of the group in 20 seconds. You can measure volume in milliliters or if you have a scale measure weight in grams. Divide either by 20 to get grams per second of flow from the group. A typical flow rate for a vibration pump machine is about 8g/s. but a range of 5 - 10g/s can indicate normal operation. If flow is under 5g/s then there might be a pump issue or something else going on. At that point I'd contact service. If purchased from Whole Latte Love in US give our tech support a call at 585-924-7170 and they'd be happy to help.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Hi! Thanks for your input, you were spot-on I believe. I have a very dark roast and I used a bit too much coffee combined with a fine grind. That didn't turn out too well. It took me way too much time though to figure that one out. Thank you!
How do you test the brew pressure? Is there a way to install a gauge inside the machine?
Hi M, Thanks for the question. There's a brew pressure gauge on the front of the machine. You'd test/adjust by inserting a blind (backflush) basket in the PF and lift the lever of the E61 group. From there adjust pressure to produce ~10bar on the gauge. 10 on the gauge gets you 9 max when brewing due to the overhead of internal hydraulics, upstream pressure measurement and vibration pump.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage From what I can see the Appartamento does not have a bar gauge for brewing, just boiler pressure.
@@muriaticfpv2328 Late answer so you may have found out already but there is a port on the front of the brew head that will accept a pressure gauge to show brew pressure. I'm sure if you wanted a case mounted one there's a way to internally plumb one but I have not looked into that. I am interested in this machine and I will definitely be adding the pressure gauge on the brew head if I end up getting it.
Why would one need to wait a few minutes to steam the milk for another latte as commented? I am confused as I thought the point of this machine was double boiler and such to be able to make more milk based drinks faster?
Hi NSL, The Appartamento uses a heat-exchange boiler. It's not a dual boiler machine. As an HX machine it can brew and steam simultaneously. A few minutes of waiting between drinks is overstated. It should be ready to brew and steam again by the time you're done pouring the first drink, knocking out the PF, grinding for the next shot, tamping, loading, and refilling a pitcher with milk.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage I heard milk based lattes Rocket is good but in terms of speed is the expobar better for this or another prosumer machine with less to no waiting time for milk based drinks(dual boiler)? It is the only reason I have not pulled trigger on the Gaggia classic. Thank you Marc!
When the shot was made on the appartamento the lever was only half way up. Was that intentional? Because I bought mine 2 weeks ago and still can't time a normal shot, the water flow is too fast (even though the grinding is already very fine). But I bring the lever all the way up as I thought should be done. Am I getting something wrong?
Hi GF, The switch behind the cam of the lever can be adjusted so the pump activates without fully raising the lever. Internally the valve in the E61group can open to a point which allows full brew water flow without the lever being fully raised. Even a partial opening of the valve should apply full pressure to the coffee. If you feel your extraction is too fast it's usually an indication your grind needs to be finer and/or use a higher coffee dose. What make/model grinder are you using? I doubt it's a machine issue. Unless your brew pressure is set abnormally high (very unlikely) with a decent espresso grinder you should be able to grind fine enough that you very little or no flow through the coffee.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage Thank you very much for replying! :) I'm using Ceado E5P. The grinding size is already less than 1 and the espresso becomes very bitter, but the time to first drip is much less than 10 seconds (about 5) every time. Flow rate declines with decrease in grind size but still the coffee is either bitter (with decrease in grind size) or flows too fast (when I try not to have that strong bitter taste by increasing grind size).
Hello ,,, which one is better rocket appartamento OR Profitec pro300 ? and why ?
Hi H, Thanks for the question. Sorry for the delayed response. Just back from Italy where spent a day at the Rocket factory and a day at the Profitec factory as well. The Pro 300 is a dual boiler machine with PID so you get precise brew water temp control. The Appartamento is an HX machine with no PID. Using the Appartamento you will do a cooling flush prior to brewing espresso to control brew temp - so a little more fussing around. The HX boiler in the Appartamento is larger at 60oz than the steam boiler in the Pro 300 at 25oz. So the Rocket machine may have a little more reserve power for steaming milk. If you are more about the espresso quality I recommend the Pro 300. If you are always doing milk drinks you may prefer the Rocket.
Marc
Whole Latte Love thanks soo much bro 🌹 you are the first one give me clear information 🌹
What is the brew ratio you are using for dark roast coffee?
Hi i, Thanks for the question. Really think it's a personal preference but I would typically go in range of 1:2 to 1:3. Did a video on brew ratios recently: th-cam.com/video/57UqPDirHoU/w-d-xo.html
Whole Latte Love Thanks for your comment, will watch soon with afternoon coffee
hi! since the Appartamento comes with a 2-hole steam tip, will swapping in a 4-hole help with steaming at all? or is the boiler not gonna take advantage of it?
thanks
Hi TW, Thanks for the question. Tips with more holes can give more vigorous steam. Can also go to fewer but larger holes. What works best for you comes down to personal preference and other factors like how much milk is in the pitcher. If steaming small amounts of milk in a 12oz pitcher for a single latte or capp it's unlikely you'd run out of steam using a 4 hole tip with smaller diameter holes.
Marc
@@Wholelattelovepage i see, i guess i'm just wondering if the 4-hole would make for better microfoam? or would it not really make a difference?
Hi, It's personal preference. All are capable of excellent microfoam regardless of number of holes. Comes down to what works for you.
Marc
Hi Marc, need your input: my rocker appartamento brew temperature is is 68 to 70 degree Celsius i.e 154 to 156 F,coffee is sour; what to do; i am getting 88Degree C when water taken from hot water dispenser but brew water is 68-70 C
Hi kk, Thanks for the question. 88C out of the hot water tap is low! But, depends on how you are measuring temp. If dumping water into a cup and using an average thermometer you will get lower reading than using a thermo-couple type thermometer directly in the stream from the tap. You may need to adjust your pressure switch to turn up the temp. It's part 9 on page 6 of this diagram: wiki.wholelattelove.com/images/4/41/Appartamento_Parts_Diagram.pdf There could be something else going on.
Marc
Thank you so-much for taking time; you guys are just amazing!!!!@@Wholelattelovepage
Nobody even got back to me after the Live video on the Rocket line about if the Appartamento feet would fit on the Mozzafiato?
So sorry for the delay! Yes they will. Mozzafiato and Appartemento feet have the same size stud which mounts to the frame.
Oops. Even = ever. Thanks for checking into that. I had a feeling the info I got from a direct competitor, that they wouldn't fit, was incorrect.
You are welcome. I did physically move feet from one to the other.
Sweet! Thanks for going the extra mile by physically confirming it. Now I just need to find out how much the Appartamento feet cost :p
thanks. how does this compare to the Bezzera Magica?
Hi Dirk, Thanks for the question. A rather large price difference between the two ~$700 more for the Magica, both use heat exchange boilers but the Magica is PID controlled. Magic has a dual gauge for boiler and brew pressure while the Appartamento has a boiler pressure gauge only. If you are not locked into the Magika have a look at the Profitec Pro 500 PID with Flow Control. It's an HX machine w/PID as well and is between the Rocket and Bezzera machines in price. The flow control is huge allowing for long pre-infusions and other capabilities of far more expensive machines: www.wholelattelove.com/products/profitec-pro-500-pid-espresso-machine-with-flow-control
Marc
11:35 savage
Hahahaha
I love this machine so much, why has the price increased $200+ USD across the board, not just at Whole Latte Love. Can someone explain why? 😕 Great Video Guys!!!!!
Hi SM, Thanks for the comment. Prices are set by the manufacturer and most have a MAP policy so regardless of where you go pricing will be similar. As we are i the US and Rocket is out of Milan, Italy pricing may fluctuate due to currency exchange rates as well.
Marc
own a rocket appartamento and completely dissatisfied with my machine a hose is nonreactive and spewing water into the interior of the machine and in turn is leaking everywhere i do not recommend this machine to anyone. I am in the process o refunding my $1,550 and buying a much better machine.
Hi AG, Sorry to hear you are having a problem with your machine! Did you purchase the machine from us? We do bench prep/test all prosumer level semi-auto machines prior to shipment. Every once in awhile something can shift in shipping. Usually fairly easy to fix a loose plumbing connection internally. If interested and you purchased from us we'd be happy to walk you through a repair.
That’s why I’d only buy from WLL when I get one! 💯❤️
That machine is meant to be in a restaurant
Hi John, Thanks for the comment. I'm 100% certain Rocket would not recommend the Appartamento for use in a restaurant. It's intended for low volume home use.