First the machine. This machine works better because of the E-61 and a powerful heating element. One of the things you can't see is the temperature. On single boiler machines, small boiler machines, and the like, the shot temperature can drop significantly during a shot. The bigger the metal mass of the boiler or a boiler with a hot E-61 stabilizes temps big time. The vibe pump is not anything beyond the standard for most espresso machines. You cannot pre infuse, but you can pre soak or pre wet the puck. You need to lift he lever half way between switching the pump on and the first position you left the lever in. Pre wetting the puck can bring you a whole world of different flavors.If you pre wet the puck right through, it give fresh coffee a chance to off gas reducing brightness. It can also reduce bitterness of certain coffees. Bear in mind, if you pre wet the puck, the more you do the faster the shot will run. You can also put the lever back in the first position and instead of letting the pressure out of the three way solenoid it will taper the shot to a small stream. Again different tastes. The question of a PID on an HX. Absolutely. A PID kicks the crap out of a pressurestat. Anybody can run a test where they steam milk to a certain temperature and then stop steaming. What happens? The milk will get hotter even though you've shut the steam off. Try it. Now if a pressurestat shuts the boiler element off, what do you think will happen to the water? It will go past the point of that shutoff. This can burn coffee, which is why you keep doing a cooling flush. With other machines, like a Rancilio Silvia, you have a deadband controller. if you pull a shot right after the boiler light goes off, same thing, you need to do a cooling flush. With Silvia if the boiler light is off and has been for a while, the water is below ideal temp and the shot will be sour. Getting back to the pressurestat, because the temperature swings are higher than on a PID machine, this causes more wear on the heating element. When you turn on a colder machine the current draw is higher. The heating element fires on and then heats past the point of a good shot. So what I am saying is the larger temperature swings and the larger current needed constantly to get the water back up to temp stress the boiler element and associated metals from heat cycling In comparison a PID flicks the boiler element on constantly in small bursts. The current draw is less because the water temp is close to ideal and no cooling flush is needed. The wear and tear on a PID machine comes from if you use a mechanical relay in the PID to switch the heating element on. The relay wears out eventually. On a solid state PID, that is eliminated. When it comes to a PID on an HX machine, it sets steam boiler temps and not brew boiler temps. So what? That is how you adjust the temp. You might steam milk a little faster or slower, but who cares? For fresh acidic coffees, you can tweak the temp higher to balance it out. If the coffee is a bit too dark, you can drop the temp and bring some acidity back. If you have a pressurestat, you could adjust it, but how are you going to do that on the fly and what will you adjust it to because you have no temperature gauge to see what you are doing anyway. This is why people have their favorite coffees with certain machines. You can't adjust things so you go with what works. Back to the Appartamento. Looks beautiful. Pleasure to use. Great steaming power. Great stability on a hot machine. Feel free to research everything I have said. I own a Rancilio Silvia that I used for three years with no PID and eight years with an Auber PID. With the PID I can see the temps as I am brewing the shot. You set the machine to 103 degrees C and pull the shot. On the Auber display the temp would drop to 93 and sit there on a good shot. If the grind was too fine, the temperature would climb and burn the coffee. With no temperature display, how would you know? So I open the steam knob and introduce cold water into the boiler and bring the temps down. That's right, I can temp profile with a PID on a Silvia, but you have to know what you are doing. Steam temp is also programmable with the PID making Silvia even more powerful. I have changed one boiler gasket only and did shots daily. The heating element just looked like older copper pennies. No scale or anything. I also own a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione Cronometro R. Consistent. Consistent. Consistent. Right now I am testing some dark roast (I really only want medium) so I am dropping the temp one degree. I like the Profitec too but: 1. Too tall for underneath my cabinets. 2. More expensive (not really a big deal) 3. No steam knobs, levers instead. I want the control of the knobs 4. Wattage. The Profitec uses 200-300 watts more and I don't think the kitchen wiring is liking my espresso machines as it is. One final note. Water. Use a BWT penguin pitcher to filter water for the machine. This was bought for the Rocket, but I tried the water in the Rancilio and that brought out even more consistency. Water softeners take out calcium and put sodium in it's place BWT filters put magnesium in place of the sodium. This makes for better tasting hot drinks. I am plumbed in on the Rocket with a BWT filtration system, inline. When you are plumbed in,(rotary only unless you really know what you are doing) YOU CANNOT PRE INFUSE WITH THE ROCKET. Rockets use a solenoid where as a Profitec doesn't so the Rocket won't see line pressure until the machine has the pump turned on. Do I care? NOPE. There is a flow control valve from Profitec that fits on top of the E-61 group. You turn the machine on and control the pressure down to zero for profiling. This valve fits pretty much any E-61 and if you are using one, you won't be looking for lone pressure to preinfuse. You technically could leave the valve fully open and preinfuse, but because you could profile the shot, why bother. Sorry. I kept it as short as I could...:)
Wow so much valuable information here. I own a Gaggia Classic with a PID and I can totally agree to everything said here. The PID is what makes the machine work as it should yielding the ideal product. My steam pressure with the PID takes about 45 to steam milk, and the boiler in the GC is TINY! But the PID moves that machine like nothing else, it’s like running a cheap car with a fancy engine.
I really appreciated your thoughts on the experience of using the Appartamento. Most reviews talk about features and specifications, which are important when comparing different machines. But the big win here for me, when you get to this level of prosumer machine, and especially with Rocket, is how great it feels to use. And look at. It's so well designed and built, it taps into some really gratifying emotions when you use it. Thanks for the insightful review!
Upgraded from the Barista Express to the Appartamento Nera. Had the Breville a little less than a year and it was an excellent machine. But the Rocket…. Oh man. What a trip.
I really wish you hadn't commented this. I have the Barista Express and I was already considering saving up for one of these. This comment may have just costed me $2K lmao
I decided on appartamento as my first machine about a month ago and I couldn’t be happier. I do really get consistent result every day and I usually make 4 doubles for me and my family almost every morning. Drip tray size is pretty darn small. So I clean it after every use. It became part of my daily ritual
I loved my Breville Barista Express, but I took the leap and got a Profitec Pro 600, which is a dual boiler with a PID and I regret nothing. Yours is the first review I see to address the user experience and how awesome it FEELS to make coffee with a pro-sumer machine. It can't be overlooked. If you like the process of making coffee just as much as you love drinking it, you'll love a major upgrade. I'm sure the same can be said for any E61 but it warms up incredibly faster than a Breville. In 20 minutes the machine is ripping hot vs. 45min for a Breville.
Great review! I bought my Appartamento a week ago and I love it. It is my first Espresso machine, before I used a Mokka pot and to be honest it’s not a step or leap it’s miles away. I can pull very tasty shots of espresso but I can’t steam latte art milk. I have to learn.... anyway thanks for the review
I feel like I'm following you! I just sold my BBE today, almost got a Niche Zero, and ended up with a Rocket Appartamento and a Eureka Mignon Specialita. I have a lot to learn though. Please make more videos on the Appartamento! Great stuff man!
Good review however you should really have compared the Rocket to the Breville Dual-Boiler rather than the Barista Express IMO. My Dad has a Rocket Giotto (the Appartamento's slightly larger predecessor) and I have had a Breville Dual Boiler for 5 years. They are both good machines. They have both had small issues that needed to be fixed (and the Breville currently has a dripping steam wand that needs service). Performance wise the Rocket definitely has a more powerful steam wand but for one or two cups this doesn't matter. If you entertain regularly then the Rocket is better. Perhaps the Rocket also produces slightly better shots of espresso but I couldn't swear to it. For ease of use however the Breville is miles ahead. For instance it's quite easy to burn your hand by accidentally touching the group head while pulling down on the lever on the Rocket; this is never a problem for the Breville. The Breville also heats up in a fraction of the time (minutes vs half an hour for the Rocket) and has an inbuilt timer, variable PID temperature control, 1 and 2 shot buttons if you're feeling lazy, inbuilt clean and descale programs with reminders etc. The Rocket is is a great manual machine but I personally love the features on the Breville and wouldn't buy a machine without them now that I've used them on a daily basis.
Thanks for the insight! I was debating whether to get the rocket vs the dual boiler. And based on your review, I think the dual boiler might better fit my busy morning routine.
I have the brev this is my 4th one have upgraded for the last 18 years and now my latest machine the Breville express is playing up I feel Breville has a life span of 4-5 years only before they gave issues and I regularly clean descale..... The rocket machines have always been the dream love the look of them Since researching coffee machines around 2k dollars I have come across so many other brands it's making it hard to choose
breville is too casual, and does too much for me. Doesn't look as great (kind of looks cheap imo) and it feels like "just another appliance" vibe. I mean it's great and there's a reason a lot of people like it, but breville just screams boring standard espresso machine to me.
I recently upgraded from a Breville Barista Express to a Profitec Pro 500 with a Eureka Silenzio. My lord the difference. The consistency is absolutely there, I never really thought I was able to get what I wanted out of the BBE, especially when I really started getting interested with brew ratios and such. I considered the appartamento, but ultimately, the Pro 500 at the same price (In Canada) has way more features, dual manometers instead of just the one, PID, a much easier to use cup warmer/water tank area (a whole piece that just slides off instead of a flap, much better under cupboards). I also upgraded the shower screen, filter basket, and grouphead gasket and got a bottomless portafilter, and have never had this amazing level of consistently near-perfect bottomless shots. All this said, I would never have the Pro 500 without the Breville. There is no way I would have been able to justify the cost of my current setup at the time that I bought my Breville making barely above minimum wage at just enough hours for me not to be considered full-time. The Breville is a wonderful machine to get started on, and still handles well into getting invested in espresso, and I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to someone starting out who wants an all-in-one compact unit. But for the experienced, the upgrades in an e61 heat exchanger (or even dual-boiler) espresso machine are insane.
I got the Appartamento for about 3 months now. Amazing espresso machine. constant results. I've been doing the cooling fan method, and hitting constant temperatures with no flush. 90c, 91c, 92c, 93c, 94c, 95c, and 96c.
@@LifestyleLab_ I stumbled on someone on TH-cam, he made a full temperature management guide. Fantastic work. This is the video: th-cam.com/video/rkQBiOViQUQ/w-d-xo.html and he has short videos as well, and full written guide. So I gave it a try. Results were shocking! this is seriously working. I even have more constant results than Howard. I was so excited and made a video for my Arabic speaking community, also made a short time-lapse video. but I was hesitant, something must be off, or there is an error, why I'm getting straight line temperature readings with zero fluctuation. So I put a temperature sensor probe inside the basket with ~17g of coffee, and started the extraction, there was some leaking because of the probe, but the live puck temperature was ~91c with no flush, and keep in mind the machine was idling for over an hour. I'd really recommend an E61 temperature sensor by (coffee sensor) their sensors are super accurate. Would love to know your results, and I think it's a great video idea. Indeed it needs some effort, but results are constant with every shot. The time of fan cooling the E61 is enough for me to grind, and tamp. No time lost. With the fan method, my HX boiler machine is producing temperature stability as any dual boiler, and maybe better?
You address some really important topics here, One of the best reviews ive seen for the appartamento. keep up the good work. I agree with what you said about shot consistency, that's what drove me insane with the barista express. That and general flavor. Oh and the weird pressure output, its all over the place from shot to shot.
Nice review, you made excellent points! But Carlo Ernesto Valente actually build AUTOMATIC PRE-INFUSION into the E61 brewhead: the moment the pump starts running, a pre-infusion chamber is filled while soaking the grind and building (lower) pressure, once the chamber is full, the full brewing pressure is build quickly. So you have to put up the lever all the way in one sweep and NOT PAUSE IT HALFWAY for extra (wrong) pre infusion. Ironically it looked like you didn’t actually use the American internet wisdom of (extra!) pre-infusion, cause (it looked like) you did just not open the valve (while not yet starting the pump) as mentioned in the comments. If you did you are in good company, Hi Marc@whole latte love! This lever position is very handy for the after-shot flush&brush, you don’t have to start the pump again to get some hot water going. It’s also handy to keep pressure on the head (for some seconds) while back flushing, which you should do weekly without soap and 2-4/yr with little soap and cleaning the, removed, shower head. Also a waterfilter (jug) is advised, or your valves and boiler (+element) will scale unless you have very soft (low mineral) water. I’ve been running this machine’s predecessor, the Cellini classic, for 12 years now without any major issues, 1 pump replacement which was easy and cheap to do myself and 1 heating element replacement, to much scaling, despite the use of filtered water, which was not easy do myself. Also it needs re-lubing of the lever shaft and valve every few years, which you can do yourself if a bit handy, you will feel and hear it when this is necessary. As a first real machine I had and recommend a (pid) Rancilio Silvia. Or at least something with a 3-way solenoid valve, so you can back-flush it. A pid is rather pointless on a HX-machine, cause you are measuring and controlling the boiler temp and not the brew temp. Which is nice for setting different tea temperatures quickly though. (Tea water comes directly from the boiler and not cold from the tank heated up through the heat exchanger like coffee water) Also the HX-machines have a pressostat instead of a thermostat, pressostats are far more accurate and have practically no “overshoot”. If your brew temp is to hot or cold, you can taste that (burnt or acidic) you can easily turn it a few clicks up or down after taking of the hood. I can serve lots of coffees and milk drinks quickly with this single 1.8 liter boiler machine. I would not recommend a dual boiler machine unless you cater to >6 milk drinking persons at once often. I use a smart socket, which is great. After 20 min heating up you get a decent shot, 30 minutes best. Only after been on for hours I do a cooling flush with pump activation. Before and after each shot is do a short 2 second flush without starting the pump. Coffee Cheers! Erik
I have Breville for two years, perfected my esspresso, but it never comes hot right from the shot. Tried everything to adjust it. Great vid and pleasant delivery. Thanks!
Great review, but just so you know it's not a "solenoid outlet" on your machine that dumps water into your drip tray. The 3 way valve that diverts water to your drip tray is mechanically actuated by a cam on your lever. A 3-way solenoid is an electromagnetically actuated valve like you'd have on machine operated by switches or programmable buttons,
@@GeronimoBiggles >45 min to finally temp to stabilize. Buy a smart plug and create a daily routine with Alexa (or similar smart home device) to turn on at a certain time. Group head thermometer mod is a must to catch a desired brew temp.
Just fyi, holding the lever at that midway position does not do any pre-infusion. You have to slightly apply upward pressure without activating the motor to allow some water to drip and saturate the puck.
Excellent review. Very clearly segmented into various topics. One thing you left out, machines of such price should not have a plastic rail guard, that's a huge let down the way they wanna cut cost.
I have mine for about two years now and still love it every day. I am not sure if I have understood it right, but did you say, the water reservoir can not be pulled out? You actually can - it just sits very tight and you have to wait for the machine to completely cool down. At least, that is how it works with my one. Reasonable and affordable upgrades: better shower screen, better filter baskets and better tip for the steam wand. Enjoy!
Hi Tom! What I said was "no-plumbable" meaning that it can't be connected to a continuous water supply. I certainly intend to do some upgrading of components in the future, stay tuned!
Nice review! Please note that lifting level up to 45° for Rocket machine does not start pre-infusing. You need to lift up a little bit more than 45° (maybe 2 more degree). You can try it without inserting portafilter.
Congratulations on the new machine! It sucked watching this video because you have confirmed for me that at some point I’m going to outgrow my breville (thanks to your many tips) and be getting a new pairing :the niche and the rocket!🤪🤪🤪🙂
You should replace the stock portafilters with a naked one. This will allow for taller cups and you can observe the shot better and counteract channeling. It’s what I did and stock portafilters are in my drawer never to surface again. They should really ship with a naked one anyway ,who uses a single shot portafilter 🤷🏻♂️
With the same grinder, a perfect shot on the Express vs a perfect shot on the Rocket are almost identical. The problem with the Breville is that I would get a perfect shot 1 or 2 times every 10 shots I pulled. With the Rocket, once I'm dialed in, I can pull the same perfect shot every time consistantly
Love your videos! Question: since the grinder is the most important component of espresso when wondering how the Apartamento can produce such better shots more consistently (you mentioned various parts) were you using the Brevell smart grinder pro as your control for the rocket? Obviously, the niche zero is amazing. And, I’m wondering the reverse in using the niche zero in the BE870 if you could do some videos on that it would be amazing!
Thanks for focusing on the usability. I posed the steaming power and timer comparison to a group and they didn't realize that a $300-400 breville took so long. I was looking to upgrade for this reason alone. Something else that I dont know can be matched by the brevilles is how quickly they heat up though. I need to be able to wake up and pull a shot within 5 minutes, not wait for it to heat up over 30 minutes.
That problem can be easily overcome on the Appartamento by putting it on a timer plug, or smart plug, thats what I do! It's steaming hot by the time I wake up each day
@@LifestyleLab_ yeah that's what I figured we'd do. What if you want another shot mid day? How long does it take to heat up? Also, if you went one step up from this to get a PID and built-in timer like the breville double boiler has, what would you choose?
It takes around 25mins to get the E61 up to full temperature from dead cold (which I won't be if you've used it at any point in the past 5 hours) For a step up, I think the Profitec Pro 500 and Pro 600 are great machines for the money
Can you make a workflow where you use this machine? I'm wondering how long you have to flush the machine before dialling in since you always make consistent shots
I wouldn't necessarily say $700 is low end for a coffee machine. The most widely known breville unit can do everything... it just takes time and patience.
Really helpful review, thank you for making it. I too have a Breville Barista Express and can relate so well to what you said about how you never feel like your dialed in because of the machines inconsistencies. Plus the steam wand being BRUTALLY slow. I know the Rocket Apartamento doesn't have a shot pressure gauge - do you find yourself missing that at all? Thanks again.
Not really. A pressure gauge is a pretty rough tool for determining shot quality. Far more important is understanding the basics of flow rate and brew ratios, hence why many high end machines even leave out the pressure gauge altogether
There is a group head thermometer made by Taylor. It's the next best thing to a PID. Actually, I wouldn't use an HX with an E-61 group head without one. It allows you to almost pinpoint proper temps to specific coffee types. You'll still need to calculate temp drop from the thermometer to the puck, but you're only looking at about a two or three degree drop. Still, its better than nothing at all. With a group head thermometer the Appartamento is almost as good (unless you're serving a crowd) as a double boiler at nearly half the cost. Water quality is a must with a Rocket. Anything more than 3 to 5 GPG and you're going to have problems very shortly down the road. Last but not least. Since the Appartamento has the E-61 group head, a flow control device can be used on this machine.
The next models up in the Rocket line have PID and a shot timer. Comparing "apples to apples" these upgraded models are only a little more expensive: The Apartmento metal cup rail is an extra. The higher models often come with a gift certificate.
A PID on a HX is great for ease of changing boiler pressure but is no better for managing brew temperatures than a PSTAT. I have done extensive testing on my appartamento and boiler pressure/temp has very little to do with brew temp. Group Head temp pretty much determines brew water temp so on and e61 HX machine a group head thermometer is WAY more useful than a PID (which is not useful at all if you want accurate and repeatable brew temps)...
i have a duo temp pro because of the design and never liked the prosumer designs until now... plus, they do things my breville doesnt... will be upgrading next year
Thanks for the informative video. How did you manage do get a decent singleshot from a double spout porta filter, did you use the original rocket espresso basket or some other manufacturers? Would also be interested in the recipe! thanks! :)
Question for you sir! Based on your usage of Rocket Appartamento if you know whether it’s possible to to do back to back milk drinks for 7-8 people in a row rather quickly count for dosing grinding ramping pulling a shot and steaming latte milk? Would this machine recover rather quickly to reg brew temperature needed once you are done in one drink and prepare your second drink for let’s say 7-8 lattes in case of entertaining family or friends? Thank you!
If you are VERY fast with your dose, grind, and tamp cycle, the machine would likely need a break after the 3rd or 4th latte to "catch it's breath" and get back up to steaming pressure. When going at a more relaxed pace, it can produce continuously
Lifestyle Lab thank you sir! I’m currently an owner of Breville Barista Express for over 4 yrs and ready to upgrade. I am considering this machine along with ECM Mechanika V Slim and Profitec Pro 500 which all are all backordered now because of COVID and all of them are produced in Italy
I just got mine today and I thought I would be ready to step up from a Breville after 5 years of learning and BOY I WAS WRONG! This machine is SCARY LOL, it's going to take a lot more to learn. I think i need to upgrade my grinder because my parents said one of my shots tasted extremely bitter. I'm still using a Breville Smart Grinder Pro with this machine, but my shot seemed okay ? A lot of learning left to go! Did I mention that I burned myself like 5 TIMES LOL. The levers are pretty close to eachother and makes it easy to burn yourself.
@@LifestyleLab_ Ya haha! Today is my 2nd day with the machine and something is malfunctioning -,-. The pressure gauge stays right on the tip of 1 and the brew head is producing water at 175 F output. So annoying!
It's understood that the Rocket can potentially make better espresso, but am curious if you used the same grinder for both the BE and this one to reach the conclusion that the Rocket is more consistent? The grinder you are using here is much better than the built in grinder of the BE, so maybe the grinder on the BE can be the culprit?
Just bought this machine and they suggest you 'pre infuse' before pulling shot by raising lever slightly, just before the pump engages. This should give a much richer crema than going straight to pump engagement.
Nothing so much to do with crema, but rather it allows the puck to swell before full pressure reducing channeling and allowing you to grind slightly finer increasing extraction
Even E61 machines equipped with PID can struggle with at the group head temperature if you don't have a good pre-flush routine. From my experience, you can achieve very consistent results with a consistent routine from the Appartamento. The main drawback for me is that there is no temperature adjustability.
I can assure you that if your machine was fully warmed up (45ish mins) then the cooling flush you performed was not sufficient to get brew temps into a 'normal' range. If you want to be able to dial in brew temps I would highly recommend a group head thermometer. Without one you really are stabbing in the dark... which is fine if you are happy but if you want real brew temp consistency and the ability to change your brew temps 'on the fly' I'd reccomend a GHT. Thanks for sharing the video.
I agree that the brew water temp is not even discussed here. The BAR guage was not even discussed as to what the setting should be and why. My Aparmento gets so hot after 45 min the water is steaming hot. So, I got a group head digital thermometer. (it installs in the allen screw location on Front of the E61. Brew temp water is all over the place and a very long 3/4 quart flush is needed to cool down to 200-204 degrees. Ive now learned how to adjust the BAR, by talking with my dealer.
Nice informative vid. I do wish you had spent a moment emphasizing that the grinder pairing and the associated costs and space demands are a key component in making good espresso and deciding if this is a pairing worth the total purchase price.
What made you decide on the rocket appartamento when you can get an ECM Mechanika V Slim or a LUCCA A53 mini for just about the same price with the ECM and LUCCA have better specs then the rocket
Hi, great video and great looking machine. I am trying to decide on my first machine. I love coffee and Espresso but not sure what machine to start with. I have a good grinder (kinu m47) and am looking for a machine. I currently use the aeropress, the hario v60, and coffee machines. Cost doesn't mean too much, I want high quality materials. I'm looking at the Gaggia classic pro, the Ranchilio Silvia, and this Rocket. The rocket is probably top I would pay at around 2k.
If you're after absolute bang for your buck, the Gaggia Classic Pro is an easy choice. If you want a bit more steaming performance and solid build, the Rancilio is great. If you want a beautiful, manual, classic looking machine, the Rocket is a solid option, but you are paying somewhat for the appearance and brand name.
great video, thanks so much for the review! I'm also about to upgrade from my breville barista express, having made the step to get a new grinder (Eureka Specialita) first. I was just wondering how you decided on the Appartamento over some of the other prosumer machines? I have looked at the Profitec P500, ECM, and few others and can't decide!
Great move to upgrade the grinder first! Price point and size were the two biggest considerations that drove me towards the Appartamento. The Profitec Pro 500 was in the cart at one point though, close call between the two. If you feel you would benefit from a PID, and your budget/counterspace can accommodate, go with the Profitec!
Cooling flush should be around 6 seconds to fully flush any overheated water. The machine will be up to pressure in about 8 minutes from switching it on, and the portafilter heats up in the group in around 20 minutes if you don't "help" it in any way by running hot water through it.
hello? that height is the same as any industrial coffee machine comes? just tilt the mug and it will sit under the coffee dispenser fine just like cafes do?
u compared espresso between appartamento and barista express, what about bdb? BDB has insance temp stability with an advance pre infusion, plus flow profiling if you how to use the hidden function.
Hi. Going from a Breville Barista Pro-- Which one would you recommend between Rocket Appartamento and Rancilio Silvia Pro? They are priced the same where I live.
The Rancillio Silvia Pro is going to be a better performing machine from an adjustability standpoint. Appartamento wins in terms of looks and a classic analog brewing experience
Great review. The height clearance might be a problem from me. Wondering if I should upgrade from the Breville Express to the Breville Dual Boiler instead, plus it's a lot cheaper
Also remember that you need to leave room in your budget for a high quality grinder, otherwise there is little benefit to upgrading to either of those machines. The dual boiler with a $1000 grinder will make better coffee than the Appartamento with a $300 grinder
I see so many videos where people try to pre infuse. The appartamento does not pre infuse. The higher models do but not the appartamento. I have one. Don’t be misinformed.
It is possible to do a slight "pre-soak" before hitting the puck with full pressure by putting the lever just below the pump on point (was done incorrectly in this video). But yes, an E61 does not have a TRUE pre-infusion unless fully plumbed in
Is there any prosumers coffee machines on the market that doesn’t require long warm up? It’s my main problem as I need quick start in the morning. Thanks for any advice!
Any machine can be put on a smart switch to start automatically 20 minutes before you wake up :) In general, the boiler is up to temp in around 5 minutes, it’s the group head and portafilter you’re waiting to get warm. You can run some blank shots to speed up the process
Jeez, you're reading my mind at this point. I'm really in the same boat as you. I feel I've gotten good at making espresso, but I could never dial the right grind setting from the first go. Do you think its more due to the grinder of the breville or is it just the machine itself?
It's really a combination of both. The size of the steps between each grind size is too large to REALLY dial in. I also suspect some inconsistencies/fade in the pump pressure of the Barista Express, especially when pulling multiple shots back to back. A good upgrade path is to upgrade your grinder first, and then the machine itself when you're ready :)
There will be a quite steep learning curve if you were to go with a heat exchanger like this as your first machine, but certainly not impossible. Also be aware that you will need to invest in a good quality espresso grinder to make a machine like this worth your while. If that fits in your budget, great! If not, you may want to check out our Breville buying guide. The Barista Pro is a fantastic all in one semi automatic: th-cam.com/video/pupR09CzRxI/w-d-xo.html
The dislike on not being able to put a larger cup is absurd! Tilt the freaking cup a bit (at least the cup you show there), and just don’t overfill! Or get yourself a bottomless portafilter you’ll also improve your shots...
Trust me, it's an issue with any normal size cup. We've tested a machine or two on this channel 😉, and this is one of the tightest in terms of clearance Pull into a shot glass and transfer into a full sized cup and you'll be fine 🙂
@Lifestyle Lab maybe i'm too close to it, I recently had my appartamento broken by UPS and they won't take resposibility and blame it to the package, which by the way was the original package from Rocket!
Did you find that when you first started using the Appartamento that it had a hot metal odor and taste from through the group head and steam wand? I've had mine for about 3 weeks now and unless i run a lot of water through the group or wand before use, there is this almost "campfire" taste that comes through. I spoke to Seattle Coffee Gear and their "technician" said this is residue from the manufacturing process and that I should continue to run water through it and it will dissipate. Did you experience any of this?
I purchased my Appartamento used, so unfortunately I can't comment on that particular issue, but most espresso machine do need a few weeks to fully flush out
Thank you very much for this video, it's great! I am considering buying this machine (it'd be my 1st), but I am wondering how much maintenance it requires. What are your cleaning routines? Cheers!
A couple backflushes per week and the occasional descale is all that's required. Certainly worth doing to maintain an expensive machine that, if properly cared for, should last a lifetime
Using just a distributor can be a fine approach as long as its set to the correct depth :) I did that for years. Now my process has changed slightly to doing WDT and a manual tamp (no need for distributor)
Love watching your video, I am using breville now, thinking of upgrade to this one, can I ask a question? How long would that take to heat up the machine from zero degree to ready to pour the shot ? Thanks
My workflow at this time was just to just the distributor to distribute and tamp :) Used that method for almost a year and was happy with it until I incorporated WDT into my workflow
hi im a newb here , is this the kind of machine where i have to put a scale under the cup and a timer , to time the extraction time and measure the yield ?
Hi, thanks for the video! One question, what about the Descaling experience comparisin between Breville Barista express and the Rocket Appartmento? Currently I have Breville Barista Express, generally and for thermal block the descaling is a piece of cake, I would like to jpgrade to next level HX machine (the Appartmento), but I have the fear of complicated descalung process. Do you think it is an issue and a point to consider? Thanks for ur answer!
I have the barista express. I'm tired of the low pressure steam when frothing and inconsistent shots, I'm dialing in, time it scale it and everything, also I got good at latte art too. Is it worth to upgrade to the apartamento, or I should upgrade to the bigger brother r58 or r60v? Will it be major difference in taste between all this 3? Since is using same group head. Thank you. Great videos
I think that you'd be more than happy with the Appartamento. The other machines that you mentioned will be a very incremental upgrade over the Appartamento, while the Appartamento is a big leap up from the Barista Express. Take the money you save over the R58 or R60v and invest it in a very high quality grinder. The Appartamento with a $1500 grinder will make better espresso than the R58 with a $500 grinder.
Do you mind if I ask how you handle your water? Currently I'm using distilled, with a few ounces of brita, that's so the Appartamento will recognise some minerals. I would love to find a decent filter/pitcher combo that can handle this Durham region hard water. Buying all this distilled is tiresome. I know that Rocket does not recommend descaling their machines. Thanks in advance.
I've run Brita water in all my machines for ages, but I was just recently told that Third Wave Water is pretty life changing (you still add it to distilled) You could also look into an RO system to save some money over buying distilled
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks for the info. I've also heard that BWT makes a filter pitcher that is supposed to do really well with hard water, but Amazon has really inconsistent stock . Don't want to buy it then find out the replacement filters are hard to find.
breville/sage dual boiler or rocket apartamento? they are in the very similar price and i got to buy something finally. also how long does it take to heat up as others asked, but I've not seen the answer.
The Appartamento and Dual Boiler both take around 10mins to get the boilers up to pressure, then another 10-15 to heat up the portafilter (can be sped up by running hot water over it). It really depends whether you value features, or longevity more. The Dual Boiler has lots of features that help new users such as pre-programmed dosing, automatic pre-infusion, built in guided cleaning cycles... the Appartamento is a no frills bombproof heat exchanger (with drastically better steaming performance) that will last a generation if cared for. Brevilles have a life expectancy of somewhere around 5 years
I’m a little confused. I have the Breville Express. When you pull a shot with the Rocket Appartomento, how do you gauge the preinfusion time, and then the actual time for extraction, giving you the correct ratio one requires, like 1:2 or 1:3 ratio?
Pre-infusion is done manually by lifting the level part way up. And just like on the Barista Express, if you're shooting for a specific brew ratio (weight in vs weight out) you'll need a scale under your shot glass. Once dialed in, you can either stop at a known volume, weight, or time, but it is simply done manually, not via a pre-programmed timed button like on the Express
Support the Channel !
www.lifestylelab.ca/support-us/
First the machine.
This machine works better because of the E-61 and a powerful heating element. One of the things you can't see is the temperature. On single boiler machines, small boiler machines, and the like, the shot temperature can drop significantly during a shot. The bigger the metal mass of the boiler or a boiler with a hot E-61 stabilizes temps big time. The vibe pump is not anything beyond the standard for most espresso machines. You cannot pre infuse, but you can pre soak or pre wet the puck. You need to lift he lever half way between switching the pump on and the first position you left the lever in. Pre wetting the puck can bring you a whole world of different flavors.If you pre wet the puck right through, it give fresh coffee a chance to off gas reducing brightness. It can also reduce bitterness of certain coffees. Bear in mind, if you pre wet the puck, the more you do the faster the shot will run. You can also put the lever back in the first position and instead of letting the pressure out of the three way solenoid it will taper the shot to a small stream. Again different tastes.
The question of a PID on an HX. Absolutely. A PID kicks the crap out of a pressurestat. Anybody can run a test where they steam milk to a certain temperature and then stop steaming. What happens? The milk will get hotter even though you've shut the steam off. Try it. Now if a pressurestat shuts the boiler element off, what do you think will happen to the water? It will go past the point of that shutoff. This can burn coffee, which is why you keep doing a cooling flush. With other machines, like a Rancilio Silvia, you have a deadband controller. if you pull a shot right after the boiler light goes off, same thing, you need to do a cooling flush. With Silvia if the boiler light is off and has been for a while, the water is below ideal temp and the shot will be sour. Getting back to the pressurestat, because the temperature swings are higher than on a PID machine, this causes more wear on the heating element. When you turn on a colder machine the current draw is higher. The heating element fires on and then heats past the point of a good shot. So what I am saying is the larger temperature swings and the larger current needed constantly to get the water back up to temp stress the boiler element and associated metals from heat cycling
In comparison a PID flicks the boiler element on constantly in small bursts. The current draw is less because the water temp is close to ideal and no cooling flush is needed. The wear and tear on a PID machine comes from if you use a mechanical relay in the PID to switch the heating element on. The relay wears out eventually. On a solid state PID, that is eliminated.
When it comes to a PID on an HX machine, it sets steam boiler temps and not brew boiler temps. So what? That is how you adjust the temp. You might steam milk a little faster or slower, but who cares? For fresh acidic coffees, you can tweak the temp higher to balance it out. If the coffee is a bit too dark, you can drop the temp and bring some acidity back. If you have a pressurestat, you could adjust it, but how are you going to do that on the fly and what will you adjust it to because you have no temperature gauge to see what you are doing anyway.
This is why people have their favorite coffees with certain machines. You can't adjust things so you go with what works.
Back to the Appartamento. Looks beautiful. Pleasure to use. Great steaming power. Great stability on a hot machine.
Feel free to research everything I have said. I own a Rancilio Silvia that I used for three years with no PID and eight years with an Auber PID. With the PID I can see the temps as I am brewing the shot. You set the machine to 103 degrees C and pull the shot. On the Auber display the temp would drop to 93 and sit there on a good shot. If the grind was too fine, the temperature would climb and burn the coffee. With no temperature display, how would you know? So I open the steam knob and introduce cold water into the boiler and bring the temps down. That's right, I can temp profile with a PID on a Silvia, but you have to know what you are doing. Steam temp is also programmable with the PID making Silvia even more powerful. I have changed one boiler gasket only and did shots daily. The heating element just looked like older copper pennies. No scale or anything.
I also own a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione Cronometro R. Consistent. Consistent. Consistent. Right now I am testing some dark roast (I really only want medium) so I am dropping the temp one degree. I like the Profitec too but:
1. Too tall for underneath my cabinets.
2. More expensive (not really a big deal)
3. No steam knobs, levers instead. I want the control of the knobs
4. Wattage. The Profitec uses 200-300 watts more and I don't think the kitchen wiring is liking my espresso machines as it is.
One final note. Water. Use a BWT penguin pitcher to filter water for the machine. This was bought for the Rocket, but I tried the water in the Rancilio and that brought out even more consistency. Water softeners take out calcium and put sodium in it's place BWT filters put magnesium in place of the sodium. This makes for better tasting hot drinks. I am plumbed in on the Rocket with a BWT filtration system, inline. When you are plumbed in,(rotary only unless you really know what you are doing) YOU CANNOT PRE INFUSE WITH THE ROCKET. Rockets use a solenoid where as a Profitec doesn't so the Rocket won't see line pressure until the machine has the pump turned on. Do I care? NOPE. There is a flow control valve from Profitec that fits on top of the E-61 group. You turn the machine on and control the pressure down to zero for profiling. This valve fits pretty much any E-61 and if you are using one, you won't be looking for lone pressure to preinfuse. You technically could leave the valve fully open and preinfuse, but because you could profile the shot, why bother.
Sorry. I kept it as short as I could...:)
amazing
Wow so much valuable information here. I own a Gaggia Classic with a PID and I can totally agree to everything said here. The PID is what makes the machine work as it should yielding the ideal product. My steam pressure with the PID takes about 45 to steam milk, and the boiler in the GC is TINY! But the PID moves that machine like nothing else, it’s like running a cheap car with a fancy engine.
Much appreciated!
@@daftsapien I also own a Gaggia Classic and have a question for you. Have you upgraded the steam wand? And if so, what to?
Cody B I installed the Rancilio Silvia v1/2 steam wand.
I really appreciated your thoughts on the experience of using the Appartamento. Most reviews talk about features and specifications, which are important when comparing different machines. But the big win here for me, when you get to this level of prosumer machine, and especially with Rocket, is how great it feels to use. And look at. It's so well designed and built, it taps into some really gratifying emotions when you use it. Thanks for the insightful review!
Upgraded from the Barista Express to the Appartamento Nera. Had the Breville a little less than a year and it was an excellent machine. But the Rocket…. Oh man. What a trip.
I really wish you hadn't commented this. I have the Barista Express and I was already considering saving up for one of these. This comment may have just costed me $2K lmao
I’d suggest watching this first
Rocket Appartamento vs Profitec Pro 400!
th-cam.com/video/fHJ3UTPdep0/w-d-xo.html
I decided on appartamento as my first machine about a month ago and I couldn’t be happier. I do really get consistent result every day and I usually make 4 doubles for me and my family almost every morning. Drip tray size is pretty darn small. So I clean it after every use. It became part of my daily ritual
I loved my Breville Barista Express, but I took the leap and got a Profitec Pro 600, which is a dual boiler with a PID and I regret nothing. Yours is the first review I see to address the user experience and how awesome it FEELS to make coffee with a pro-sumer machine. It can't be overlooked. If you like the process of making coffee just as much as you love drinking it, you'll love a major upgrade. I'm sure the same can be said for any E61 but it warms up incredibly faster than a Breville. In 20 minutes the machine is ripping hot vs. 45min for a Breville.
I always found that 10 minutes, and a good purge, preheated the BE enough.
Ryan Flanagan 10 minutes? Give it 5 and run a blank shot or two and the BE is good to go!
Great review! I bought my Appartamento a week ago and I love it. It is my first Espresso machine, before I used a Mokka pot and to be honest it’s not a step or leap it’s miles away. I can pull very tasty shots of espresso but I can’t steam latte art milk. I have to learn.... anyway thanks for the review
Congrats on the new purchase, it’s a great machine.
Next stop: La Marzocco Linea Mini
Need to start saving my pennies! (or selling machines...) haha
I feel like I'm following you! I just sold my BBE today, almost got a Niche Zero, and ended up with a Rocket Appartamento and a Eureka Mignon Specialita. I have a lot to learn though. Please make more videos on the Appartamento! Great stuff man!
Good review however you should really have compared the Rocket to the Breville Dual-Boiler rather than the Barista Express IMO.
My Dad has a Rocket Giotto (the Appartamento's slightly larger predecessor) and I have had a Breville Dual Boiler for 5 years. They are both good machines. They have both had small issues that needed to be fixed (and the Breville currently has a dripping steam wand that needs service). Performance wise the Rocket definitely has a more powerful steam wand but for one or two cups this doesn't matter. If you entertain regularly then the Rocket is better. Perhaps the Rocket also produces slightly better shots of espresso but I couldn't swear to it. For ease of use however the Breville is miles ahead. For instance it's quite easy to burn your hand by accidentally touching the group head while pulling down on the lever on the Rocket; this is never a problem for the Breville. The Breville also heats up in a fraction of the time (minutes vs half an hour for the Rocket) and has an inbuilt timer, variable PID temperature control, 1 and 2 shot buttons if you're feeling lazy, inbuilt clean and descale programs with reminders etc. The Rocket is is a great manual machine but I personally love the features on the Breville and wouldn't buy a machine without them now that I've used them on a daily basis.
Thanks for the insight! I was debating whether to get the rocket vs the dual boiler. And based on your review, I think the dual boiler might better fit my busy morning routine.
The Breville uses the same shitty pump as my Saeco Minuto's. I guess the Rocket's is a better pump.
I have the brev this is my 4th one have upgraded for the last 18 years and now my latest machine the Breville express is playing up I feel Breville has a life span of 4-5 years only before they gave issues and I regularly clean descale.....
The rocket machines have always been the dream love the look of them
Since researching coffee machines around 2k dollars I have come across so many other brands it's making it hard to choose
breville is too casual, and does too much for me. Doesn't look as great (kind of looks cheap imo) and it feels like "just another appliance" vibe. I mean it's great and there's a reason a lot of people like it, but breville just screams boring standard espresso machine to me.
@@michaelchoi5247 but who cares what it looks like as long as it makes great tasting espresso with ease?
I recently upgraded from a Breville Barista Express to a Profitec Pro 500 with a Eureka Silenzio. My lord the difference.
The consistency is absolutely there, I never really thought I was able to get what I wanted out of the BBE, especially when I really started getting interested with brew ratios and such.
I considered the appartamento, but ultimately, the Pro 500 at the same price (In Canada) has way more features, dual manometers instead of just the one, PID, a much easier to use cup warmer/water tank area (a whole piece that just slides off instead of a flap, much better under cupboards).
I also upgraded the shower screen, filter basket, and grouphead gasket and got a bottomless portafilter, and have never had this amazing level of consistently near-perfect bottomless shots.
All this said, I would never have the Pro 500 without the Breville. There is no way I would have been able to justify the cost of my current setup at the time that I bought my Breville making barely above minimum wage at just enough hours for me not to be considered full-time.
The Breville is a wonderful machine to get started on, and still handles well into getting invested in espresso, and I wouldn't hesitate recommending it to someone starting out who wants an all-in-one compact unit. But for the experienced, the upgrades in an e61 heat exchanger (or even dual-boiler) espresso machine are insane.
I got the Appartamento for about 3 months now. Amazing espresso machine.
constant results.
I've been doing the cooling fan method, and hitting constant temperatures with no flush.
90c, 91c, 92c, 93c, 94c, 95c, and 96c.
Sounds interesting!
Care to explain the "cooling fan method" in more detail? Perhaps it's worth doing a video on
@@LifestyleLab_ I stumbled on someone on TH-cam, he made a full temperature management guide. Fantastic work.
This is the video: th-cam.com/video/rkQBiOViQUQ/w-d-xo.html and he has short videos as well, and full written guide.
So I gave it a try. Results were shocking! this is seriously working. I even have more constant results than Howard.
I was so excited and made a video for my Arabic speaking community, also made a short time-lapse video.
but I was hesitant, something must be off, or there is an error, why I'm getting straight line temperature readings with zero fluctuation.
So I put a temperature sensor probe inside the basket with ~17g of coffee, and started the extraction, there was some leaking because of the probe, but the live puck temperature was ~91c with no flush, and keep in mind the machine was idling for over an hour.
I'd really recommend an E61 temperature sensor by (coffee sensor) their sensors are super accurate.
Would love to know your results, and I think it's a great video idea. Indeed it needs some effort, but results are constant with every shot.
The time of fan cooling the E61 is enough for me to grind, and tamp. No time lost.
With the fan method, my HX boiler machine is producing temperature stability as any dual boiler, and maybe better?
You address some really important topics here, One of the best reviews ive seen for the appartamento. keep up the good work.
I agree with what you said about shot consistency, that's what drove me insane with the barista express. That and general flavor. Oh and the weird pressure output, its all over the place from shot to shot.
Nice review, you made excellent points!
But Carlo Ernesto Valente actually build AUTOMATIC PRE-INFUSION into the E61 brewhead:
the moment the pump starts running, a pre-infusion chamber is filled while soaking the grind and building (lower) pressure, once the chamber is full, the full brewing pressure is build quickly.
So you have to put up the lever all the way in one sweep and
NOT PAUSE IT HALFWAY for extra (wrong) pre infusion.
Ironically it looked like you didn’t actually use the American internet wisdom of (extra!) pre-infusion, cause (it looked like) you did just not open the valve (while not yet starting the pump) as mentioned in the comments. If you did you are in good company, Hi Marc@whole latte love!
This lever position is very handy for the after-shot flush&brush, you don’t have to start the pump again to get some hot water going.
It’s also handy to keep pressure on the head (for some seconds) while back flushing, which you should do weekly without soap and 2-4/yr with little soap and cleaning the, removed, shower head.
Also a waterfilter (jug) is advised, or your valves and boiler (+element) will scale unless you have very soft (low mineral) water.
I’ve been running this machine’s predecessor, the Cellini classic, for 12 years now without any major issues, 1 pump replacement which was easy and cheap to do myself and 1 heating element replacement, to much scaling, despite the use of filtered water, which was not easy do myself.
Also it needs re-lubing of the lever shaft and valve every few years, which you can do yourself if a bit handy, you will feel and hear it when this is necessary.
As a first real machine I had and recommend a (pid) Rancilio Silvia. Or at least something with a 3-way solenoid valve, so you can back-flush it.
A pid is rather pointless on a HX-machine, cause you are measuring and controlling the boiler temp and not the brew temp. Which is nice for setting different tea temperatures quickly though. (Tea water comes directly from the boiler and not cold from the tank heated up through the heat exchanger like coffee water)
Also the HX-machines have a pressostat instead of a thermostat, pressostats are far more accurate and have practically no “overshoot”. If your brew temp is to hot or cold, you can taste that (burnt or acidic) you can easily turn it a few clicks up or down after taking of the hood.
I can serve lots of coffees and milk drinks quickly with this single 1.8 liter boiler machine. I would not recommend a dual boiler machine unless you cater to >6 milk drinking persons at once often.
I use a smart socket, which is great. After 20 min heating up you get a decent shot, 30 minutes best. Only after been on for hours I do a cooling flush with pump activation.
Before and after each shot is do a short 2 second flush without starting the pump.
Coffee Cheers! Erik
I have Breville for two years, perfected my esspresso, but it never comes hot right from the shot. Tried everything to adjust it. Great vid and pleasant delivery. Thanks!
Is your portafilter hot before brewing? (Not warm, HOT!)
@@LifestyleLab_ I run hot water through it for good 5-7 mins before pulling the shot and it's hot to touch. But esspresso comes warm.
This came in a close 2nd when I was shopping for a machine, went with ECM.
ROBERT DAVIS Good call. I have an ECM Giotto. This old boy has been reliably providing me and my wife with great shots for >10 years
Cheers!🍮
Great review, but just so you know it's not a "solenoid outlet" on your machine that dumps water into your drip tray. The 3 way valve that diverts water to your drip tray is mechanically actuated by a cam on your lever. A 3-way solenoid is an electromagnetically actuated valve like you'd have on machine operated by switches or programmable buttons,
I just ordered an Appartamento an hour before you uploaded this. Watching this made me even more excited :)
That's awesome!
how long does it take to warm up? can you set it to turn on at a certain time?
@@GeronimoBiggles >45 min to finally temp to stabilize. Buy a smart plug and create a daily routine with Alexa (or similar smart home device) to turn on at a certain time. Group head thermometer mod is a must to catch a desired brew temp.
Your description from 2:20 to 3:05 - bravo and this is exactly my experience. Well done, Rocket.
It's a beautiful piece of machinery!
Just fyi, holding the lever at that midway position does not do any pre-infusion. You have to slightly apply upward pressure without activating the motor to allow some water to drip and saturate the puck.
Excellent review. Very clearly segmented into various topics. One thing you left out, machines of such price should not have a plastic rail guard, that's a huge let down the way they wanna cut cost.
I agree. Mine cracked within a week. the one at the showroom was also cracked. you can get a metal rail I believe.
I have mine for about two years now and still love it every day.
I am not sure if I have understood it right, but did you say, the water reservoir can not be pulled out? You actually can - it just sits very tight and you have to wait for the machine to completely cool down. At least, that is how it works with my one.
Reasonable and affordable upgrades: better shower screen, better filter baskets and better tip for the steam wand.
Enjoy!
Hi Tom!
What I said was "no-plumbable" meaning that it can't be connected to a continuous water supply.
I certainly intend to do some upgrading of components in the future, stay tuned!
Lifestyle Lab So I need to practise my english more. Or clean my ears. Or both. :-)
Great vid ! Making the move to Rocket myself so appreciated your perspective.
Quality review thanks, just what I was looking for
Nice review! Please note that lifting level up to 45° for Rocket machine does not start pre-infusing. You need to lift up a little bit more than 45° (maybe 2 more degree). You can try it without inserting portafilter.
Congratulations on the new machine! It sucked watching this video because you have confirmed for me that at some point I’m going to outgrow my breville (thanks to your many tips) and be getting a new pairing :the niche and the rocket!🤪🤪🤪🙂
You should replace the stock portafilters with a naked one. This will allow for taller cups and you can observe the shot better and counteract channeling. It’s what I did and stock portafilters are in my drawer never to surface again. They should really ship with a naked one anyway ,who uses a single shot portafilter 🤷🏻♂️
I agree, I'd trade the single for a bottomless in the box
Unless you’re brewing for two people at once, NPF really not as useful then
Is there big taste difference in Rocket vs. Barista Express?
With the same grinder, a perfect shot on the Express vs a perfect shot on the Rocket are almost identical. The problem with the Breville is that I would get a perfect shot 1 or 2 times every 10 shots I pulled. With the Rocket, once I'm dialed in, I can pull the same perfect shot every time consistantly
@@LifestyleLab_ That's good to know.
Now THAT is a dream machine!
In his review, James Hoffman used a Scace device and found consistent temperatures at the portafilter in the 92-94C range.
Unless the machine is left sitting idle, then it has a tendency to overheat, as with any heat exchanger. Can be solved by adding a temp probe :)
Best review I have seen so far. Great job!
Love your videos! Question: since the grinder is the most important component of espresso when wondering how the Apartamento can produce such better shots more consistently (you mentioned various parts) were you using the Brevell smart grinder pro as your control for the rocket? Obviously, the niche zero is amazing. And, I’m wondering the reverse in using the niche zero in the BE870 if you could do some videos on that it would be amazing!
Thanks for focusing on the usability. I posed the steaming power and timer comparison to a group and they didn't realize that a $300-400 breville took so long. I was looking to upgrade for this reason alone.
Something else that I dont know can be matched by the brevilles is how quickly they heat up though. I need to be able to wake up and pull a shot within 5 minutes, not wait for it to heat up over 30 minutes.
That problem can be easily overcome on the Appartamento by putting it on a timer plug, or smart plug, thats what I do!
It's steaming hot by the time I wake up each day
@@LifestyleLab_ yeah that's what I figured we'd do. What if you want another shot mid day? How long does it take to heat up?
Also, if you went one step up from this to get a PID and built-in timer like the breville double boiler has, what would you choose?
It takes around 25mins to get the E61 up to full temperature from dead cold (which I won't be if you've used it at any point in the past 5 hours)
For a step up, I think the Profitec Pro 500 and Pro 600 are great machines for the money
Can you make a workflow where you use this machine? I'm wondering how long you have to flush the machine before dialling in since you always make consistent shots
I wouldn't necessarily say $700 is low end for a coffee machine. The most widely known breville unit can do everything... it just takes time and patience.
Try using a bottomless portafilter for more clearance
Really helpful review, thank you for making it. I too have a Breville Barista Express and can relate so well to what you said about how you never feel like your dialed in because of the machines inconsistencies. Plus the steam wand being BRUTALLY slow. I know the Rocket Apartamento doesn't have a shot pressure gauge - do you find yourself missing that at all? Thanks again.
Not really. A pressure gauge is a pretty rough tool for determining shot quality. Far more important is understanding the basics of flow rate and brew ratios, hence why many high end machines even leave out the pressure gauge altogether
There is a group head thermometer made by Taylor. It's the next best thing to a PID. Actually, I wouldn't use an HX with an E-61 group head without one. It allows you to almost pinpoint proper temps to specific coffee types. You'll still need to calculate temp drop from the thermometer to the puck, but you're only looking at about a two or three degree drop. Still, its better than nothing at all. With a group head thermometer the Appartamento is almost as good (unless you're serving a crowd) as a double boiler at nearly half the cost. Water quality is a must with a Rocket. Anything more than 3 to 5 GPG and you're going to have problems very shortly down the road. Last but not least. Since the Appartamento has the E-61 group head, a flow control device can be used on this machine.
The next models up in the Rocket line have PID and a shot timer. Comparing "apples to apples" these upgraded models are only a little more expensive: The Apartmento metal cup rail is an extra. The higher models often come with a gift certificate.
A PID on a HX is great for ease of changing boiler pressure but is no better for managing brew temperatures than a PSTAT. I have done extensive testing on my appartamento and boiler pressure/temp has very little to do with brew temp. Group Head temp pretty much determines brew water temp so on and e61 HX machine a group head thermometer is WAY more useful than a PID (which is not useful at all if you want accurate and repeatable brew temps)...
Im buzzing on 6 shots while watching this!!!!!
I would like to see experimentation of the appartamento with a flow control valve installed.
i have a duo temp pro because of the design and never liked the prosumer designs until now... plus, they do things my breville doesnt... will be upgrading next year
Thanks for the informative video. How did you manage do get a decent singleshot from a double spout porta filter, did you use the original rocket espresso basket or some other manufacturers? Would also be interested in the recipe! thanks! :)
Hmm, you mentioned not being able to fit a decent size mug under the portafilter. Have you thought about using a bottomless filter? Works a charm!!
Absolutely!
But I often split a double into two glasses
Been waiting for this video, awesome!
Question for you sir! Based on your usage of Rocket Appartamento if you know whether it’s possible to to do back to back milk drinks for 7-8 people in a row rather quickly count for dosing grinding ramping pulling a shot and steaming latte milk? Would this machine recover rather quickly to reg brew temperature needed once you are done in one drink and prepare your second drink for let’s say 7-8 lattes in case of entertaining family or friends? Thank you!
If you are VERY fast with your dose, grind, and tamp cycle, the machine would likely need a break after the 3rd or 4th latte to "catch it's breath" and get back up to steaming pressure.
When going at a more relaxed pace, it can produce continuously
Lifestyle Lab thank you sir! I’m currently an owner of Breville Barista Express for over 4 yrs and ready to upgrade. I am considering this machine along with ECM Mechanika V Slim and Profitec Pro 500 which all are all backordered now because of COVID and all of them are produced in Italy
If you have the space, and are okay with the more classic looks, I would consider the Profitec Pro 500 very seriously over the Appartamento
"Notoriously stylish" - love it!
😎
I just got mine today and I thought I would be ready to step up from a Breville after 5 years of learning and BOY I WAS WRONG! This machine is SCARY LOL, it's going to take a lot more to learn. I think i need to upgrade my grinder because my parents said one of my shots tasted extremely bitter. I'm still using a Breville Smart Grinder Pro with this machine, but my shot seemed okay ? A lot of learning left to go! Did I mention that I burned myself like 5 TIMES LOL. The levers are pretty close to eachother and makes it easy to burn yourself.
It's certainly a different beast! Haha
You will get used to it and it will be worth it!
@@LifestyleLab_ Ya haha! Today is my 2nd day with the machine and something is malfunctioning -,-. The pressure gauge stays right on the tip of 1 and the brew head is producing water at 175 F output. So annoying!
It's understood that the Rocket can potentially make better espresso, but am curious if you used the same grinder for both the BE and this one to reach the conclusion that the Rocket is more consistent? The grinder you are using here is much better than the built in grinder of the BE, so maybe the grinder on the BE can be the culprit?
Just bought this machine and they suggest you 'pre infuse' before pulling shot by raising lever slightly, just before the pump engages. This should give a much richer crema than going straight to pump engagement.
Nothing so much to do with crema, but rather it allows the puck to swell before full pressure reducing channeling and allowing you to grind slightly finer increasing extraction
Superb superb very informative video, love the comparisons, well done, and congratulations it’s a beautiful espresso machine, thank you
Did you feel like Appartamento's consistency could match those machines with PID?
Even E61 machines equipped with PID can struggle with at the group head temperature if you don't have a good pre-flush routine. From my experience, you can achieve very consistent results with a consistent routine from the Appartamento. The main drawback for me is that there is no temperature adjustability.
I can assure you that if your machine was fully warmed up (45ish mins) then the cooling flush you performed was not sufficient to get brew temps into a 'normal' range. If you want to be able to dial in brew temps I would highly recommend a group head thermometer. Without one you really are stabbing in the dark... which is fine if you are happy but if you want real brew temp consistency and the ability to change your brew temps 'on the fly' I'd reccomend a GHT. Thanks for sharing the video.
I agree that the brew water temp is not even discussed here. The BAR guage was not even discussed as to what the setting should be and why. My Aparmento gets so hot after 45 min the water is steaming hot. So, I got a group head digital thermometer. (it installs in the allen screw location on Front of the E61. Brew temp water is all over the place and a very long 3/4 quart flush is needed to cool down to 200-204 degrees. Ive now learned how to adjust the BAR, by talking with my dealer.
Must Have Rocket Appartamento Upgrades!
th-cam.com/video/Vipd_oYGfGw/w-d-xo.html
Nice informative vid. I do wish you had spent a moment emphasizing that the grinder pairing and the associated costs and space demands are a key component in making good espresso and deciding if this is a pairing worth the total purchase price.
What made you decide on the rocket appartamento when you can get an ECM Mechanika V Slim or a LUCCA A53 mini for just about the same price with the ECM and LUCCA have better specs then the rocket
Same day I want to get me one of those. Right now I have a gaggia classic pro. It’s just fine for now. But someday I’ll want to upgrade.
Hey man, I love your videos. It inspired me to start doing my own.
Awesome!
Do you not need a thermometer on the group head to make sure it is at the right temperatures?
I think I will go for Lelit MaraX instead. No cooling flushes between shots.
9.17 you should have transitioned to a beautifully styled latte art after that (for laughs!)
Aww agreed! Missed opportunity
Hi, great video and great looking machine. I am trying to decide on my first machine. I love coffee and Espresso but not sure what machine to start with. I have a good grinder (kinu m47) and am looking for a machine. I currently use the aeropress, the hario v60, and coffee machines. Cost doesn't mean too much, I want high quality materials. I'm looking at the Gaggia classic pro, the Ranchilio Silvia, and this Rocket. The rocket is probably top I would pay at around 2k.
If you're after absolute bang for your buck, the Gaggia Classic Pro is an easy choice. If you want a bit more steaming performance and solid build, the Rancilio is great. If you want a beautiful, manual, classic looking machine, the Rocket is a solid option, but you are paying somewhat for the appearance and brand name.
Highly recommend this machine .
great video, thanks so much for the review! I'm also about to upgrade from my breville barista express, having made the step to get a new grinder (Eureka Specialita) first. I was just wondering how you decided on the Appartamento over some of the other prosumer machines? I have looked at the Profitec P500, ECM, and few others and can't decide!
Great move to upgrade the grinder first! Price point and size were the two biggest considerations that drove me towards the Appartamento. The Profitec Pro 500 was in the cart at one point though, close call between the two. If you feel you would benefit from a PID, and your budget/counterspace can accommodate, go with the Profitec!
If you had to chose between this one and the Decent, which one would it be and why?
I would choose the Decent because it provides unparalleled accuracy and insight into each shot I pull. No other machine on the market can do that
Love the videos! I was wondering how long you have to do a cooling flush for and how long do you have to wait after turning the machine on?
Cooling flush should be around 6 seconds to fully flush any overheated water. The machine will be up to pressure in about 8 minutes from switching it on, and the portafilter heats up in the group in around 20 minutes if you don't "help" it in any way by running hot water through it.
Great video and editing, you should do more!
hello? that height is the same as any industrial coffee machine comes? just tilt the mug and it will sit under the coffee dispenser fine just like cafes do?
No, that is certainly not an industrial spout clearance. Not even close
u compared espresso between appartamento and barista express, what about bdb? BDB has insance temp stability with an advance pre infusion, plus flow profiling if you how to use the hidden function.
Great video. What’s the bg music?
You just impulsed me and now I bought one
Nice! You'll definitely enjoy it
What is your opinion on needing to turn the pressure down. It sounds like it's 12bar from the factory when it should be 9?
Makes a bit impact, and should absolutely be done. Wish I had mentioned it in this video
Hi. Going from a Breville Barista Pro-- Which one would you recommend between Rocket Appartamento and Rancilio Silvia Pro? They are priced the same where I live.
The Rancillio Silvia Pro is going to be a better performing machine from an adjustability standpoint. Appartamento wins in terms of looks and a classic analog brewing experience
Great review. The height clearance might be a problem from me. Wondering if I should upgrade from the Breville Express to the Breville Dual Boiler instead, plus it's a lot cheaper
Also remember that you need to leave room in your budget for a high quality grinder, otherwise there is little benefit to upgrading to either of those machines. The dual boiler with a $1000 grinder will make better coffee than the Appartamento with a $300 grinder
I see so many videos where people try to pre infuse. The appartamento does not pre infuse. The higher models do but not the appartamento. I have one. Don’t be misinformed.
It is possible to do a slight "pre-soak" before hitting the puck with full pressure by putting the lever just below the pump on point (was done incorrectly in this video). But yes, an E61 does not have a TRUE pre-infusion unless fully plumbed in
Very enjoyable video. And the rocket seems a good choice for espresso prolovers.
Is there any prosumers coffee machines on the market that doesn’t require long warm up? It’s my main problem as I need quick start in the morning. Thanks for any advice!
Any machine can be put on a smart switch to start automatically 20 minutes before you wake up :)
In general, the boiler is up to temp in around 5 minutes, it’s the group head and portafilter you’re waiting to get warm. You can run some blank shots to speed up the process
Would love a video about why you choose the rocket at this price point vs other machines?
Jeez, you're reading my mind at this point.
I'm really in the same boat as you. I feel I've gotten good at making espresso, but I could never dial the right grind setting from the first go. Do you think its more due to the grinder of the breville or is it just the machine itself?
It's really a combination of both. The size of the steps between each grind size is too large to REALLY dial in. I also suspect some inconsistencies/fade in the pump pressure of the Barista Express, especially when pulling multiple shots back to back.
A good upgrade path is to upgrade your grinder first, and then the machine itself when you're ready :)
I’m looking into my first machine. But I am a buy once kinda person. Would you recommend this to a beginner?
There will be a quite steep learning curve if you were to go with a heat exchanger like this as your first machine, but certainly not impossible. Also be aware that you will need to invest in a good quality espresso grinder to make a machine like this worth your while. If that fits in your budget, great! If not, you may want to check out our Breville buying guide. The Barista Pro is a fantastic all in one semi automatic: th-cam.com/video/pupR09CzRxI/w-d-xo.html
The dislike on not being able to put a larger cup is absurd! Tilt the freaking cup a bit (at least the cup you show there), and just don’t overfill! Or get yourself a bottomless portafilter you’ll also improve your shots...
Trust me, it's an issue with any normal size cup. We've tested a machine or two on this channel 😉, and this is one of the tightest in terms of clearance
Pull into a shot glass and transfer into a full sized cup and you'll be fine 🙂
@Lifestyle Lab maybe i'm too close to it, I recently had my appartamento broken by UPS and they won't take resposibility and blame it to the package, which by the way was the original package from Rocket!
I'm sorry to hear that 😔
Hi what is the heat up time on this once u turn it on? Thanks
Around 15 minutes
@@LifestyleLab_ gr8 thanks
If you will use NPF the cup should fit 🤔😉 cheers!
Did you find that when you first started using the Appartamento that it had a hot metal odor and taste from through the group head and steam wand? I've had mine for about 3 weeks now and unless i run a lot of water through the group or wand before use, there is this almost "campfire" taste that comes through. I spoke to Seattle Coffee Gear and their "technician" said this is residue from the manufacturing process and that I should continue to run water through it and it will dissipate. Did you experience any of this?
I purchased my Appartamento used, so unfortunately I can't comment on that particular issue, but most espresso machine do need a few weeks to fully flush out
Sir, why should u flush the water of the group head before brew it?
Because if left sitting the machine will overheat the water, causing you to burn of overextract your coffee as steam exits the group head
Thank you very much for this video, it's great! I am considering buying this machine (it'd be my 1st), but I am wondering how much maintenance it requires. What are your cleaning routines? Cheers!
A couple backflushes per week and the occasional descale is all that's required. Certainly worth doing to maintain an expensive machine that, if properly cared for, should last a lifetime
@@LifestyleLab_ Thanks!
Hi Lifestyle Lab, at 3:55 it looks like you only used a distribution tool but no tamper, but that's a wrong impression, right?
Using just a distributor can be a fine approach as long as its set to the correct depth :) I did that for years. Now my process has changed slightly to doing WDT and a manual tamp (no need for distributor)
@@LifestyleLab_ Alright, thanks for the answer.
Love watching your video, I am using breville now, thinking of upgrade to this one, can I ask a question? How long would that take to heat up the machine from zero degree to ready to pour the shot ? Thanks
About 15-20 minutes :)
Lifestyle Lab thanks, I am enjoy making my coffee, maybe this not suitable for someone who just need a rush one before they go out. But thanks :)
Nice job man! I want one now.
I look forward to the video ;)
Did you tamp, or did you just use the distributor as the tamper?
My workflow at this time was just to just the distributor to distribute and tamp :)
Used that method for almost a year and was happy with it until I incorporated WDT into my workflow
hi im a newb here ,
is this the kind of machine where i have to put a scale under the cup and a timer , to time the extraction time and measure the yield ?
Any espresso machine will require that equally, if thats how you want to maintain consistency between shots :)
Hi, thanks for the video! One question, what about the Descaling experience comparisin between Breville Barista express and the Rocket Appartmento? Currently I have Breville Barista Express, generally and for thermal block the descaling is a piece of cake, I would like to jpgrade to next level HX machine (the Appartmento), but I have the fear of complicated descalung process. Do you think it is an issue and a point to consider?
Thanks for ur answer!
No, the descaling process definitely shouldn't deter you from upgrading to a Heat Exchanger! I'll have a tutorial coming out soon!
I have the barista express. I'm tired of the low pressure steam when frothing and inconsistent shots, I'm dialing in, time it scale it and everything, also I got good at latte art too. Is it worth to upgrade to the apartamento, or I should upgrade to the bigger brother r58 or r60v? Will it be major difference in taste between all this 3? Since is using same group head. Thank you. Great videos
I think that you'd be more than happy with the Appartamento. The other machines that you mentioned will be a very incremental upgrade over the Appartamento, while the Appartamento is a big leap up from the Barista Express. Take the money you save over the R58 or R60v and invest it in a very high quality grinder. The Appartamento with a $1500 grinder will make better espresso than the R58 with a $500 grinder.
@@LifestyleLab_ thank you very much! You made a good point and changed my decision.
Do you mind if I ask how you handle your water? Currently I'm using distilled, with a few ounces of brita, that's so the Appartamento will recognise some minerals. I would love to find a decent filter/pitcher combo that can handle this Durham region hard water. Buying all this distilled is tiresome. I know that Rocket does not recommend descaling their machines. Thanks in advance.
I've run Brita water in all my machines for ages, but I was just recently told that Third Wave Water is pretty life changing (you still add it to distilled)
You could also look into an RO system to save some money over buying distilled
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks for the info. I've also heard that BWT makes a filter pitcher that is supposed to do really well with hard water, but Amazon has really inconsistent stock . Don't want to buy it then find out the replacement filters are hard to find.
breville/sage dual boiler or rocket apartamento? they are in the very similar price and i got to buy something finally. also how long does it take to heat up as others asked, but I've not seen the answer.
The Appartamento and Dual Boiler both take around 10mins to get the boilers up to pressure, then another 10-15 to heat up the portafilter (can be sped up by running hot water over it).
It really depends whether you value features, or longevity more. The Dual Boiler has lots of features that help new users such as pre-programmed dosing, automatic pre-infusion, built in guided cleaning cycles... the Appartamento is a no frills bombproof heat exchanger (with drastically better steaming performance) that will last a generation if cared for. Brevilles have a life expectancy of somewhere around 5 years
with niche and appartamento, the flat white taste same as coffeeshops?
Absolutely!
Better than most
What leveling tool are you using in the video?
I've added a link to it in the description and top comment :)
Basic question from a newbie. How do you get consistent shots/temperature without a PID?
E61 Groups are very temperature consistent by nature, as long as you do a long cooling flush before pulling the shot
@@LifestyleLab_ Makes sense - thank you!
I am getting it soon!
I’m a little confused. I have the Breville Express. When you pull a shot with the Rocket Appartomento, how do you gauge the preinfusion time, and then the actual time for extraction, giving you the correct ratio one requires, like 1:2 or 1:3 ratio?
Pre-infusion is done manually by lifting the level part way up. And just like on the Barista Express, if you're shooting for a specific brew ratio (weight in vs weight out) you'll need a scale under your shot glass. Once dialed in, you can either stop at a known volume, weight, or time, but it is simply done manually, not via a pre-programmed timed button like on the Express
Thanks, headless Barrista guy.
😎☕
Thank you for the video