Ah yes, by far my favorite class in the system, the monk! I genuinely can't stop raving about this class because they are so versatile and can be built in so many different ways. As far as MAD goes, I think this is true but there are a lot of ways you can choose what abilities you depend on. For example, I have a monk build in mind that uses drakeheart mutagens to enhance their defense while making dex less of a requirement. A level 1 drakeheart mutagen gives a +6 (+4 item bonus and a dex cap of 2) while still allowing you to use your proficiency for AC. Monk's AC is balanced by giving them a lower item bonus (just dex cap, which is only gonna be +4 at level 1) and a higher proficency. By replacing your substandard armor bonus and keeping your exceptional proficency you get the highest armor class in the game for quite a few levels if consistently using drakeheart mutagens. You also get the best damage because you can go all in on strength so long as you have at least 14 dex. The downside of drakeheart mutagen's is also mitigated by monks exceptional saving throws. Basically what I'm saying is, if you have an alchemist in your party, build around it and make them your monks drug dealer, you'll have a better AC until level 17 when apex items give dex based monks a bigger AC. You can also take the alchemist dedication and still have a superior armor class until level 10 gives standard monks a dex bonus of +5 (but remember you get to be strength based!). Also fortress shield was practically tailor made for monks and lets you pump those defenses even more while mitigating the downsides. I could write a thesis on building the monk.
If you like the drakeheart mutagen you can take it all the way to level 20 And it will always be better than unarmored if you're using a level appropriate version of the mutagen effectively being heavy armor compatible with monks.
My gripes with some of the design decisions aside (wish we can start out with one more class feat without being human since it always feels a little incomplete and lagging at early levels, weird orientalism and really should allow simple melee weapons for monastic weapons) wow there’s so much rad about the monk in PF2E. The diversity, reliability, and fun defenses like wow. I love that feeling of starting expert in all saves and defense, but then being able to choose which save is raised, yesss.
You can get to AC 19 with splint mail if you take the Merchant background for the Bargain Hunter feat, or if you are a Champion whose weapon is inexpensive (e.g. Lubaiko long spear). That said, YES. Monk in P2E is awesome, and versatile. You can do a mobility monk, or a grapple monk, or even battlefield control with Bo staff and the stand still feat. Each of these builds can dominate the action economy while doing acceptable damage at a high AC.
I loved my Tiger-Stance monk during the playtest. The published version looks even better. My group unfortunately won't consider switching to Pathfinder from D&D 5E (where monks are pretty bad).
Oh no! Send them more PF2e content to convince them. I love tiger stance too. I paired it with Goblin Scuttle to make a character who can constantly reposition to set up flanks as their allies move.
A lot of people like them, but I don't hear about too many people who love them. I don't think anybody thinks they're bad, but more people should be talking about how good they are.
I think something that would work for monks in have them have a diety like clerics that allow them to use a specific weapon or keep unarmed and go for irori, it also helps it make more sense then if all the benefits you gain are in said weapon making you a glass cannon late game. Plus if there's a diety favouring you, then it makes more sense that you can punch someone with armor or if you get the titan wrestler feat that you can shift and grapple such large creatures, in the camping me and my group plan to start soon I play a monk whos main diety is irori to make the unarmed make sense but he generally follows the "good" gods of the inner sea
In one of my games the monk uses a shield. This is a great option for them as they have the action economy to raise a shield each round due to flurry of blows. AC 10 + 4 (dex) + 4 Expert Proficiency +2 raise a shield.... = 20 ac monk at level 1.
It's even better than that! It's AC = 10 + 4 (dex) + 4 (expert) + 1 (level) + 2 (shield) for a 21! And there's nothing saying that flurry of blows requires two free hands, so you can totally use a shield and flurry of blows like you said for incredible action economy.
Well, you can say that the difference between the subclasless monk and the subclasless fighter is that monk have stances, which work similarly to subclasses, at least in flavor, meanwhile the fighter doesn't. My main nitpick with the monk is not their MADness, but the fact that late game you don't have incredible defenses as you are at level 1, mainly due to the saving throw progression, which you end with one that is equal to the other martial classes late game
My gaming table also agrees that stances feel like they have a lot of flavor and mechanics built in and therefore feel more like subclasses. It would be nice to see some extra proficiency or maybe feat or other free upgrades to monk saves towards the later levels.
Very true, though I don't like that this is only the case when in mountain stance and otherwise your AC is really low. This pretty much forces you to use mountain stance in every encounter, and means that if you have a low initiative roll and are attacked before you can use your stance you are in a lot of trouble.
@@RebelThenKing My first Pf2 character was a mountain stance monk that dumped dex and went all in on strength and wisdom. Taking a cleric dedication for Jolt coil. I also used a fortress shield to defend so I'd at least have that juicy +3 circumstance in the case of low initiative rolls. I'm pretty sure Jolt coil monk outdamages just about anything else you can do as a monk because you get extra lightning damage on both your current turns flurry and the next one (and on your stand still reaction if you have it) while also being strength based.
I dislike the idea that the Monk is all about unarmed combat (mostly). I realize this is fantasy but an empty hand strike against someone in plate armor is impossible. There is no reason not to design a monk class with many of its current coolness and not have them use weapons for lethal combat against hardened targets... like other martial classes do.
Monk, as well as Swashbuckler, are my favorite martial classes in pf2e! I have a lot of fun with these two.
Ah yes, by far my favorite class in the system, the monk! I genuinely can't stop raving about this class because they are so versatile and can be built in so many different ways.
As far as MAD goes, I think this is true but there are a lot of ways you can choose what abilities you depend on. For example, I have a monk build in mind that uses drakeheart mutagens to enhance their defense while making dex less of a requirement. A level 1 drakeheart mutagen gives a +6 (+4 item bonus and a dex cap of 2) while still allowing you to use your proficiency for AC. Monk's AC is balanced by giving them a lower item bonus (just dex cap, which is only gonna be +4 at level 1) and a higher proficency. By replacing your substandard armor bonus and keeping your exceptional proficency you get the highest armor class in the game for quite a few levels if consistently using drakeheart mutagens. You also get the best damage because you can go all in on strength so long as you have at least 14 dex. The downside of drakeheart mutagen's is also mitigated by monks exceptional saving throws.
Basically what I'm saying is, if you have an alchemist in your party, build around it and make them your monks drug dealer, you'll have a better AC until level 17 when apex items give dex based monks a bigger AC. You can also take the alchemist dedication and still have a superior armor class until level 10 gives standard monks a dex bonus of +5 (but remember you get to be strength based!).
Also fortress shield was practically tailor made for monks and lets you pump those defenses even more while mitigating the downsides. I could write a thesis on building the monk.
The best use of the alchemist is indeed as a supplier for the rest of the party!
If you like the drakeheart mutagen you can take it all the way to level 20 And it will always be better than unarmored if you're using a level appropriate version of the mutagen
effectively being heavy armor compatible with monks.
@@rod4309 Dreakheart is indeed a pretty awesome mutagen.
My gripes with some of the design decisions aside (wish we can start out with one more class feat without being human since it always feels a little incomplete and lagging at early levels, weird orientalism and really should allow simple melee weapons for monastic weapons) wow there’s so much rad about the monk in PF2E. The diversity, reliability, and fun defenses like wow. I love that feeling of starting expert in all saves and defense, but then being able to choose which save is raised, yesss.
You can get to AC 19 with splint mail if you take the Merchant background for the Bargain Hunter feat, or if you are a Champion whose weapon is inexpensive (e.g. Lubaiko long spear).
That said, YES. Monk in P2E is awesome, and versatile. You can do a mobility monk, or a grapple monk, or even battlefield control with Bo staff and the stand still feat. Each of these builds can dominate the action economy while doing acceptable damage at a high AC.
Oh, good callout on getting those armor prices down and getting that AC up.
P2E monk is what 5E Monk wishes it was.
I loved my Tiger-Stance monk during the playtest. The published version looks even better. My group unfortunately won't consider switching to Pathfinder from D&D 5E (where monks are pretty bad).
Oh no! Send them more PF2e content to convince them.
I love tiger stance too. I paired it with Goblin Scuttle to make a character who can constantly reposition to set up flanks as their allies move.
Monks are awesome on PF2e!! I'm new to the system, but I never knew that they were underrated.
A lot of people like them, but I don't hear about too many people who love them. I don't think anybody thinks they're bad, but more people should be talking about how good they are.
I think something that would work for monks in have them have a diety like clerics that allow them to use a specific weapon or keep unarmed and go for irori, it also helps it make more sense then if all the benefits you gain are in said weapon making you a glass cannon late game. Plus if there's a diety favouring you, then it makes more sense that you can punch someone with armor or if you get the titan wrestler feat that you can shift and grapple such large creatures, in the camping me and my group plan to start soon I play a monk whos main diety is irori to make the unarmed make sense but he generally follows the "good" gods of the inner sea
3:12
flurry ranger with maximum MAP -4 (-2 at higher lv) says hi
also most martial classes have 18AC at 1st lv
😆The dreaded flurry flurry of blows
@@RebelThenKing especially with impossible flury (unfortunately high lv ability) that lest you attack 6 times on max MAP which is only -2
In one of my games the monk uses a shield. This is a great option for them as they have the action economy to raise a shield each round due to flurry of blows. AC 10 + 4 (dex) + 4 Expert Proficiency +2 raise a shield.... = 20 ac monk at level 1.
It's even better than that! It's AC = 10 + 4 (dex) + 4 (expert) + 1 (level) + 2 (shield) for a 21! And there's nothing saying that flurry of blows requires two free hands, so you can totally use a shield and flurry of blows like you said for incredible action economy.
You can go even further than that with the new fortress shield. Monk's have more speed to spare than anyone else anyways.
Well, you can say that the difference between the subclasless monk and the subclasless fighter is that monk have stances, which work similarly to subclasses, at least in flavor, meanwhile the fighter doesn't.
My main nitpick with the monk is not their MADness, but the fact that late game you don't have incredible defenses as you are at level 1, mainly due to the saving throw progression, which you end with one that is equal to the other martial classes late game
My gaming table also agrees that stances feel like they have a lot of flavor and mechanics built in and therefore feel more like subclasses. It would be nice to see some extra proficiency or maybe feat or other free upgrades to monk saves towards the later levels.
Strength monk with mountain stance can get 19 as well, 21 with a shield, lvl 1
Very true, though I don't like that this is only the case when in mountain stance and otherwise your AC is really low. This pretty much forces you to use mountain stance in every encounter, and means that if you have a low initiative roll and are attacked before you can use your stance you are in a lot of trouble.
@@RebelThenKing My first Pf2 character was a mountain stance monk that dumped dex and went all in on strength and wisdom. Taking a cleric dedication for Jolt coil. I also used a fortress shield to defend so I'd at least have that juicy +3 circumstance in the case of low initiative rolls.
I'm pretty sure Jolt coil monk outdamages just about anything else you can do as a monk because you get extra lightning damage on both your current turns flurry and the next one (and on your stand still reaction if you have it) while also being strength based.
@@RebelThenKing only one action on the first round tho, and it gets mitigated on higher levels, and it does more damage and does Athletics better
Monk using shields messes is with my class fantasy
@@aamirhussain26 play however you want, but there ARE monks that use shields IRL 🤷♂
a mountain stance monk at level 1 can get 20 in AC at level 1 presuming you have a mage armor cast on you.
If you like flanking monks, checkout a scuttling goblin tiger monk ...
I dislike the idea that the Monk is all about unarmed combat (mostly). I realize this is fantasy but an empty hand strike against someone in plate armor is impossible. There is no reason not to design a monk class with many of its current coolness and not have them use weapons for lethal combat against hardened targets... like other martial classes do.