As a history buff, I'm kinda embarrassed I didn't know about the House of Wisdom. The image of the Tigris turning bl ack with ink from destroyed books is haunting.
No reason to be embarrassed. I hold a MA in Ancient History and didn't know about this until I was 40 or so. The important thing is to know that there is so much we don't know and that it is a fascinating quest to look for new knowledge.
Thank You Sir .. I was taught to be ashamed of my Indian heritage ( I still am to this day )but you’re the first person I’ve ever heard say anything positive. 🙏
It is a shame you were taught to be ashamed of the Indian heritage! As a matter of fact, the influence of India is pretty massive, but unfortunately still under-researched.
Never thought I'd be so interested in medieval philosophy, but here we are! The conflict between religious and scientific truth that Averroes wrote about is still so relevant today. It's wild how some debates have been going on for centuries.
The bit about the Tigris river turning bl ack from all the book ink was pretty haunting imagery. Makes you think about just how big of a scale that destruction was on and how much knowledge was lost
Oh I'm loving this! When the human experience is tracked on a journey through history, art, philosophy and truth . Each page can be claimed, changed and explained. Wonderful, wonderful work! I long for the land of place and peace.
This is potentially the most seminal TEDx talk I’ve ever seen. Timely relevant, even urgent. The chronological sequence & geographical itinerary of the newest ideas in mathematics, philosophy and science is outstanding!
Wow, Koert Debeuf has just given me a serious reality check. This should be a mandatory video for everyone who is convinced that the West is the best. Thanks for putting my feet back on the ground 👍👏
The West IS the best, at least where science is concerned. Are we seriously going to pretend that the contributions made by Western scientists, philosophers, mathematicians and so on didn’t happen? Look around your home at all the appliances you use, look at our modern day vehicles, our modern health care treatments and medicines, how many were NOT invented in the West? Yes, the Middle East (primarily Persia) made loads of contributions a thousand years ago but in the last 5 centuries where have they been? Let us not downplay western contributions without which quality of life would be much much worse.
I wish more people knew about this part of history. It’s so important for understanding our world today, and just how much cultures shared and learnt from one another in the past.
Hello form Turkiye! I can’t thank u enough for your this sensitive and informative video.I was impressed by your evaluation about Bagdad’s contributions on science and culture.
This talk reminded me of the importance of questioning our assumptions and biases. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking one culture is superior to others, but history proves otherwise.
ok but who else found him really engaging and easy to understand when breaking down these complex historical connections? perfect mix of info and delivery, in my opinion.
I'm really glad someone's out here with content like this. The "middle east" was so much more advanced than what we know and the real setbacks are the years of it being bombed into the ground and colonization before that
Thank you for your nice comment. I am writing a book on the second part of your comment. In Dutch to start with. I hope it will be translated into English soon.
As usual by Koert Debeuf, a very balanced and insightful perspective. The narrative being based on personal experience and study makes it very worthwhile to consider. Apart from rewriting history and teaching our children (and not only in the Western world) about other cultures, another great way to learn to respect and value others is by directly meeting them. It’s a privilege when one can do so. Thank you for the interesting initiative towards change!
It’s great he applies this perspective towards his personal life. USA really needs this advice. A lot of old school mentalities that think they still need to be afraid of one another. It’ll only change when you begin to want to change it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t happen within a snap of a finger. It takes time. This was a good talk.
We need to be humble, to open our eyes. We can learn so much from eachother. Personally I learned this lesson when I stayed with poor people (who never went to school). I was baffled with their wisdom. They knew so much more about life, they passed down wisdom from generation to generation. Because they can't write anything down to remember, they have an incredible memory. This experience learned me a real lesson. Thank you Koert Lebeuf for this talk, so inspiring!
This talk reminded me of the importance of inclusivity in education. We need to ensure that all cultures are represented accurately in our history books, so future generations can have a more nuanced understanding of the world.
There is so much beauty in that part of the world, maybe it's good people from other places don't know about it. The more people know about something the more it is ruined
What struck me most was realizing how many crucial figures who advanced human knowledge came from the Middle East, like Al-Khwarizmi with algebra. Very interesting.
This is one of the most important and impact full episodes of Tedx ever ❤❤❤ Congratulations and thanks to everyone who contributed in this great work 👏
Honestly, I never thought about the origins of algebra and how it shaped our modern world. This talk challenges the Eurocentric view I've grown up with.
I wish we could learn about all this in school and also just the culture in general! I've seen photos of their Mosques and just the countries in general look so beautiful. I bet there's so much interesting stuff in their history
This really made me question how many other essential civilizations or cultures got erased or diminished in mainstream historical teachings over time and especially all the lost culture and knowledge of colonized places.
Hearing how influential the Islamic world was during its golden age really makes me interested in learning more about that history and culture. I bet there's some really amazing stuff there
The world would be a better place if we cherish our collective diversity and credit each other for the development of humanity. Simply put, there neither would’ve been a renaissance without the golden age nor a golden age without Ancient Greek philosophy. We build on the contributions of our predecessors Period
Absolutely. Our view of history, and thus quite many narratives, are the result of ideological choices centuries ago. In case you are interested, a book of mine on this topic will be published in December.
It's interesting how civilizations rise and fall throughout history. Leaders belonging to one civilization might think that their power will last forever. They don't know that it's like a young man who might think that he will live forever. That's why those leaders must be fair and good to be remembered in a positive light, just as a good man would be remembered after he dies. Thank you for the amazing speech!
Thanks! You might want to check out Ibn Khaldun. This 14th century thinker had some very interesting theories about the rise and fall of civilizations.
I never realized how much of our modern world was shaped by the exchange of ideas between different cultures! Kind of cool to think about and makes me feel sad that there isn't this kind of philosophical collaboration anymore
I am not sure there is not this kind of cross-pollination anymore. Maybe even more than ever before. But that needs a lot more research. Anyway, you put an interesting point on the table.
This makes a lot of sense, when you think about like the Roman Empire and all the trade it did, it's not like they just never visited that part of the world
I love how he traced the journey of ideas across cultures and centuries. It's a beautiful reminder that human knowledge is a collective effort. No single culture can claim ownership of progress - we all build on each other's work.
I appreciate how he challenges the Eurocentric view of history. It's important to acknowledge the contributions of other cultures and the more we do it maybe the closer we'll get to actually understanding how everything started
It's so sad to think that all the beauty and art from such a rich culture can be erased and ignored because of how they're portrayed now just to fit political agendas.
I feel like I need to rewatch this one just to fully digest how much of our modern world has deeper roots in Islamic/middle eastern history and culture. Really interesting stuff!
Wow good on him for challenging his own knowledge and perspective. It is not easy to open yourself up to the reality that your views and perceptions are incorrect.
As someone with some Arab heritage, this talk means a lot to me. It's frustrating to always see the culture portrayed negatively in the media and if I'm being really honest maybe that's also had an impact on how much I've wanted to explore that side of my ancestry.
Damn okay, I had no idea there was so much history and contributions from the Islamic world! Feeling pretty inspired to learn about the interconnectedness of cultures throughout history.
As a history buff, I appreciate the deep dive into the Islamic Golden Age. It's a shame some of this knowledge got buried over time. We need more presentations like this to bridge cultural understanding.
The thing he keeps coming back to about how religious truth is for the masses and scientific truth is for the philosophers, that's honestly pretty interesting to me, I feel like it's the other way around nowadays.
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux Maybe it's just a western thing but I see more and more people abandoning any kind of religious faith and putting more stock in science
I had no idea the foundations of so much of modern science and philosophy originated from the Islamic Golden Age. This really changes my perspective and I think it would do that for a lot of people
It’s sad that so much knowledge was lost in the destruction of Baghdad... kind of like what happened to the library of Alexandria. There's really no telling just what was lost or how much further ahead we would be had those things not happened.
Excellent talk and congratulations. It is great that despite all elections havoc these days in Europe with some old bad and intolerant ideas coming back in some places, more openness and interest to learn and dig deeper is also getting ground, challenging old views and showing the interconnectivity and cross-breeding across cultures, religious and other beliefs, which shaped human (WO)MANkind. (E.g. College de France talks gives some testimony of that). Just an add-on, the threat to rewrite history and eliminate other cultures' contribution is unfortunately not a European phenomena alone... Look at some, sometimes on-going efforts in more authoritative regimes left and write to eliminate and keep only what suits in history... it is a global threat indeed and task to confront and overcome such negative efforts with enlightening speeches and more, like Koert's talk here. Bravo again 👏 and keep going. I am waiting for your podcast series 🙂
You are absolutely right that this is not a pure European phenomenon. However, as the European and American history books on philosophy are the most read and spread, the idea that philosophy is mostly European is being read worldwide. In any case, thanks for pointing out the podcast idea. I should get started with this indeed!
"is it possible, that it is still convenient to some people today?" the powerful everywhere and all through time divide the people to keep them from looking up.
Finally got some insight into how religion and the church actively suppressed so much enlightening knowledge and progress back then. Sad but important to know.
This blew my mind! I never realized how much the Islamic world contributed to the Renaissance. It's crazy to think that algebra - which I struggled with in school lol came from a Persian scientist. Makes me wonder what other historical connections we're missing.
The image of families picnicking in the mosque really stuck with me. It's such a contrast to the tense, serious portrayal of Islam we often see in media. Reminds me not to judge a whole culture based on its extremes and that there's always more to the story.
This is so mind-blowing, and also the stuff about algebra coming from Indian numbers? I guess we just assume the ancient world was so isolated from one another but they really weren't.
I think it's important to acknowledge that education is an institution and within every institution is an agenda. The reason they don't teach us about this stuff in school is the same reason they don't teach us about colonization. It doesn't serve that agenda.
I think this is true, but only partly. Most teachers have learned this story since more than 200 years, and don't know the other story at all. It is our duty to bring this knowledge back. If people then refuse to rethink history, then we can speak of bad will.
It was intentionally indeed, mostly in the 18th century. That's the reason why it is hard to change: for centuries we grew up with this narrow view of history.
@@stephaneboisjoli1320 Absolutely yes. Starting from Elementary School, first step after nursery schools. I’m curious to know if in Arab Countries they do the same about European studies and so on.
@@EdoardoDeLarge I’m Egyptian and I can tell you, yes we do in the Arab world embrace all other civilizations and their contributions to history and humanity . I studied since middle school history subject where we studied all the ancient civilizations Egyptian of course which is ours, Greeks, Roman, Persian in the 1st year. Then in 2nd year we studied middle ages, the Islamic Civilization, the ottoman empire, the Mogul empire and The indian empire, also European dark age. Then in the 3rd year, we studied the renaissance in Europe, the colonization of north and South America, the Steam revolution in England up to the modern era. I’m glad to hear that in Italy they teach the influence of other civilizations and cultures.
So what I'm hearing is that immigrants have been helping boost both the scientific and philosophical aspects of a culture for literal centuries and we _still_ haven't learnt to embrace them?
Change starts with acknowledging the contributions of all cultures and I can't help but wonder how much of other cultures history/contributions has been erased?
I was surprised to hear him say he was a historian and a philosopher and hadn't known about how beautiful Islamic culture is. Sure I get the whitewashing of basic history but I assumed anyone who studied ancient history in school would know
The part about scientific vs religious truth was intriguing... It's fascinating that Muslim philosophers were grappling with these ideas centuries ago. Goes to show that critical thinking and questioning aren't unique to any one culture.
Uhuh..so why aren't they selfcritical when it concerns all the horrendous violence commited in the name of their "religion".? My I remind you that a handfull of philosophers do not represent an entire community..
If anything _not_ learning about it just does a disservice to everything else we learn from that time period… like our idea of that time is that the world was so much smaller and less connected than what it actually was.
Why don’t we learn more about these Islamic philosophers in school? They've had such a huge impact, seems kind of wrong that we never learn about them. And I went to school before 9/11.
Good question! As a matter of fact Arabic philosophy was erased from the History of Philosophy in the 18th and 19th century, as German scholars believed philosophy was about the truth, the truth is Christian and thus European. Arabic philosophy was therefore step by step sidelined in our history and our education. My book about this will appear at the end of 2024, in case you are interested in more details. :)
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux somewhat shocking, however not surprising. In the power of creation, this has so little to do with "the God of my understanding." Power is delivered to the masses and created in the name of beliefs. The War of Differences has nothing do with the love and protection of its people. It has everything to do with control and spreading fear among the people, fear of those who do not believe as I. Philosophy that is side stepped, threatens dogma and control over the masses. Let's call upon and create Chaos!
I've always found it interesting (and heart-breaking) how it seems a common theme for invaders back then to destroy all the books and the knowledge. I'm sure there's a tactical reason they did that but it seems such a waste.
To be fair most "western" countries were colonized by Europeans so to me it makes a lot of sense that all the history we'd be taught is Eurocentric. The more globalization comes into effect though the more this will be corrected, hopefully.
Koert says at 2:44 "what I learned was that our real history looks very differently." Waw! Koert is rewriting history. Koert is a genius. What Koert should know is that history is a set of lies agreed upon. Koert should have said: "I think that the real history looks very differently." Koert should have said: "propaganda changes the course of history." It is very painful to hear politicians talk about history. Nevertheless: the Umayyad mosque is wonderful. Koert sure knows how to lure us into his propaganda. Koert never mentions how the US bombed Bagdad. Koert never mentions how Islam in Europe now differs from homeland Islam. Warmongers will always recover history. I'm very interested on Koert's historical views regarding Russian culture in these dark days. What I think I really want to say is how ridiculously lighthearted and pretentious this "exposé" is.
Yeah I knew there was going to be a part of the story that was a bummer. The 7:00 mark was definitely it for me. Why do invaders always want to take out the knowledge first?
Interesting point. I assure you the destruction of the House of Wisdom is one of the biggest "bummers" of history. However, no all invaders destroyed knowledge luckily. If not, not much knowledge would have been left!
I don't agree that science says our soul is mortal/dies with the body. Science acknowledges that energy can't be destroyed, and what is our soul if not the energy of us?
For all clarity, I am not giving my opinion on the soul. I only try to explain how ideas about the soul travelled through history. You have the absolute right to disagree.
I feel like this whole talk is a stark reminder of how much knowledge can be lost through violence and ignorance.
Very true!
As a history buff, I'm kinda embarrassed I didn't know about the House of Wisdom. The image of the Tigris turning bl ack with ink from destroyed books is haunting.
No reason to be embarrassed. I hold a MA in Ancient History and didn't know about this until I was 40 or so. The important thing is to know that there is so much we don't know and that it is a fascinating quest to look for new knowledge.
I really hope this video receives a wide audience, too many in the West ignore or flat out deny the innumerable contributions of our siblings.
Thank you. I hope so too 🙂
Thank You Sir .. I was taught to be ashamed of my Indian heritage ( I still am to this day )but you’re the first person I’ve ever heard say anything positive. 🙏
It is a shame you were taught to be ashamed of the Indian heritage! As a matter of fact, the influence of India is pretty massive, but unfortunately still under-researched.
Never thought I'd be so interested in medieval philosophy, but here we are! The conflict between religious and scientific truth that Averroes wrote about is still so relevant today. It's wild how some debates have been going on for centuries.
I can say the same, actually: A few years ago, I never thought I would become so interested in medieval history myself :)
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux It's pretty cool to think about the ideas and debates from back then that are still happening now!
The bit about the Tigris river turning bl ack from all the book ink was pretty haunting imagery. Makes you think about just how big of a scale that destruction was on and how much knowledge was lost
Haunting indeed. I would give an arm to know which books have been lost at that moment.
This is why it's so important to educate yourself!
Oh I'm loving this! When the human experience is tracked on a journey through history, art, philosophy and truth . Each page can be claimed, changed and explained. Wonderful, wonderful work! I long for the land of place and peace.
Thank you so much for your positive comment!
This is potentially the most seminal TEDx talk I’ve ever seen. Timely relevant, even urgent.
The chronological sequence & geographical itinerary of the newest ideas in mathematics, philosophy and science is outstanding!
Thank you so much! Much appreciated!
Wow, Koert Debeuf has just given me a serious reality check. This should be a mandatory video for everyone who is convinced that the West is the best. Thanks for putting my feet back on the ground 👍👏
Thank you, Mark, for your positive comment! All ideas to make the video mandatory are welcome 🙂
The West IS the best, at least where science is concerned. Are we seriously going to pretend that the contributions made by Western scientists, philosophers, mathematicians and so on didn’t happen? Look around your home at all the appliances you use, look at our modern day vehicles, our modern health care treatments and medicines, how many were NOT invented in the West?
Yes, the Middle East (primarily Persia) made loads of contributions a thousand years ago but in the last 5 centuries where have they been? Let us not downplay western contributions without which quality of life would be much much worse.
I'm so grateful for people like this who want to challenge the status quo and shine a light on forgotten histories.
Thank you very much!
I wish more people knew about this part of history. It’s so important for understanding our world today, and just how much cultures shared and learnt from one another in the past.
It is my mission to make more people to know about this. You are welcome to help spread the message! :)
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux Thanks, I have sent your talk to some friends...
Hello form Turkiye! I can’t thank u enough for your this sensitive and informative video.I was impressed by your evaluation about Bagdad’s contributions on science and culture.
Thank you very much!
You can tell he has such a passion for this subject matter. The enthusiasm made it that much more engaging to listen to.
Thank you very much. I am passionate about this indeed :)
This talk reminded me of the importance of questioning our assumptions and biases. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking one culture is superior to others, but history proves otherwise.
Thank you. I agree it is important indeed.
Thank you for speaking the truth and for your bravery
Thank you - my pleasure!
ok but who else found him really engaging and easy to understand when breaking down these complex historical connections? perfect mix of info and delivery, in my opinion.
Thank you very much!
A brilliant talk
Thanks a lot!
I'm really glad someone's out here with content like this. The "middle east" was so much more advanced than what we know and the real setbacks are the years of it being bombed into the ground and colonization before that
Thank you for your nice comment. I am writing a book on the second part of your comment. In Dutch to start with. I hope it will be translated into English soon.
Yesss thank you! Glad someone is spreading this kind of acknowledgement because there is so much beauty and wisdom to be found within the culture.
This talk really made me think about how interconnected and global our history truly is.
As someone who loves studying history, this talk was a breath of fresh air, thank you 💜💜
I am happy to hear that!
I gotta say, the way he broke down the journey of knowledge from ancient greeks to baghdad to europe was super well-explained. made it click for me.
Perfect. We need to know this ❤
Thank you!
As usual by Koert Debeuf, a very balanced and insightful perspective. The narrative being based on personal experience and study makes it very worthwhile to consider. Apart from rewriting history and teaching our children (and not only in the Western world) about other cultures, another great way to learn to respect and value others is by directly meeting them. It’s a privilege when one can do so. Thank you for the interesting initiative towards change!
Thank you for your very kind comment!
It’s great he applies this perspective towards his personal life. USA really needs this advice. A lot of old school mentalities that think they still need to be afraid of one another. It’ll only change when you begin to want to change it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t happen within a snap of a finger. It takes time. This was a good talk.
Thank you. It will time indeed, but I do believe in the power of ideas. Let's try to get the message heard.
So informative and so much truth spoken! ! Thank you!
Thank you!
We need to be humble, to open our eyes. We can learn so much from eachother. Personally I learned this lesson when I stayed with poor people (who never went to school). I was baffled with their wisdom. They knew so much more about life, they passed down wisdom from generation to generation. Because they can't write anything down to remember, they have an incredible memory. This experience learned me a real lesson.
Thank you Koert Lebeuf for this talk, so inspiring!
Thank you for sharing your story
They really skipped over all that history in school... no wonder we have such a biased view of the middle east. Well done for shedding light on this.
Thank you very much!
This talk reminded me of the importance of inclusivity in education. We need to ensure that all cultures are represented accurately in our history books, so future generations can have a more nuanced understanding of the world.
I entirely agree. This is very important.
There is so much beauty in that part of the world, maybe it's good people from other places don't know about it. The more people know about something the more it is ruined
I went into this skeptical but he quickly won me over with the wealth of compelling evidence and passionate delivery.
Thank you. I am indeed passionate about it. Glad that was clear to you.
Amazing speech
Thank you 🙂
What struck me most was realizing how many crucial figures who advanced human knowledge came from the Middle East, like Al-Khwarizmi with algebra. Very interesting.
Thank you. And this is just a glimpse of the entire story!
This is one of the most important and impact full episodes of Tedx ever ❤❤❤
Congratulations and thanks to everyone who contributed in this great work 👏
Thank you very much for your reaction! Much appreciated!
Great points about the way we've been conditioned to view the Arabic culture when in reality there's actually so much beauty and peace within it.
Thank you, and indeed!
Honestly, I never thought about the origins of algebra and how it shaped our modern world. This talk challenges the Eurocentric view I've grown up with.
I am happy to hear that. Thank you!
As a middle eastern I feel glad that this lesson exists ❤❤
Thanks and my pleasure!
I wish we could learn about all this in school and also just the culture in general! I've seen photos of their Mosques and just the countries in general look so beautiful. I bet there's so much interesting stuff in their history
I invite you to visit one of the countries in the Middle East and see these place with your own eyes. You will be more amazed still!
This really made me question how many other essential civilizations or cultures got erased or diminished in mainstream historical teachings over time and especially all the lost culture and knowledge of colonized places.
Indeed. The picture is much broader than only the Arab side of the story. It still needs much research though.
Hearing how influential the Islamic world was during its golden age really makes me interested in learning more about that history and culture. I bet there's some really amazing stuff there
There are a lot of amazing books about this topic. Let me know if you would like to have some suggestions.
The world would be a better place if we cherish our collective diversity and credit each other for the development of humanity. Simply put, there neither would’ve been a renaissance without the golden age nor a golden age without Ancient Greek philosophy. We build on the contributions of our predecessors Period
Indeed. I fully agree.
This talk made me realize how much we take for granted about where our knowledge comes from. We don't really question any of what we're taught do we?
I very much agree. I have started to question a lot of knowledge.
I've never thought about how history gets written! This is really making me question a lot of those narratives that we just accept
Absolutely. Our view of history, and thus quite many narratives, are the result of ideological choices centuries ago. In case you are interested, a book of mine on this topic will be published in December.
It's interesting how civilizations rise and fall throughout history. Leaders belonging to one civilization might think that their power will last forever. They don't know that it's like a young man who might think that he will live forever. That's why those leaders must be fair and good to be remembered in a positive light, just as a good man would be remembered after he dies. Thank you for the amazing speech!
Thanks! You might want to check out Ibn Khaldun. This 14th century thinker had some very interesting theories about the rise and fall of civilizations.
I never realized how much of our modern world was shaped by the exchange of ideas between different cultures! Kind of cool to think about and makes me feel sad that there isn't this kind of philosophical collaboration anymore
I am not sure there is not this kind of cross-pollination anymore. Maybe even more than ever before. But that needs a lot more research. Anyway, you put an interesting point on the table.
This makes a lot of sense, when you think about like the Roman Empire and all the trade it did, it's not like they just never visited that part of the world
Exactly, as did many empires; the one of Venice for example.
I love how he traced the journey of ideas across cultures and centuries. It's a beautiful reminder that human knowledge is a collective effort. No single culture can claim ownership of progress - we all build on each other's work.
I appreciate how he challenges the Eurocentric view of history. It's important to acknowledge the contributions of other cultures and the more we do it maybe the closer we'll get to actually understanding how everything started
Thank you very much for your positive comment!
outstanding speech with lots of information. Thank you.
Thank you very much
It's so sad to think that all the beauty and art from such a rich culture can be erased and ignored because of how they're portrayed now just to fit political agendas.
I feel like I need to rewatch this one just to fully digest how much of our modern world has deeper roots in Islamic/middle eastern history and culture. Really interesting stuff!
Wow good on him for challenging his own knowledge and perspective. It is not easy to open yourself up to the reality that your views and perceptions are incorrect.
Thank you very much. It was a lesson for me. Since then I try to remain open for new views, and I must say it is so interesting.
As someone with some Arab heritage, this talk means a lot to me. It's frustrating to always see the culture portrayed negatively in the media and if I'm being really honest maybe that's also had an impact on how much I've wanted to explore that side of my ancestry.
Damn okay, I had no idea there was so much history and contributions from the Islamic world! Feeling pretty inspired to learn about the interconnectedness of cultures throughout history.
Thank you. I can guarantee you your search for interconnectedness of cultures throughout history will be fascinating.
As a history buff, I appreciate the deep dive into the Islamic Golden Age. It's a shame some of this knowledge got buried over time. We need more presentations like this to bridge cultural understanding.
Thank you very much. I wish I could give more TEDx talks on this topic! 🙂
The thing he keeps coming back to about how religious truth is for the masses and scientific truth is for the philosophers, that's honestly pretty interesting to me, I feel like it's the other way around nowadays.
I am not sure I understand what you mean. How is it different nowadays?
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux Maybe it's just a western thing but I see more and more people abandoning any kind of religious faith and putting more stock in science
@@IAmTheRealMagicMan Thank you for clarifying. You are right, certainly in the West. In other parts of the world it seems to be more complicated.
It's inspiring to learn about the interconnectedness of cultures and how they've influenced each other throughout time!
Thank you very much!
Loved hearing about this, great talk
Thank you very much!
I had no idea the foundations of so much of modern science and philosophy originated from the Islamic Golden Age. This really changes my perspective and I think it would do that for a lot of people
Thank you. I am happy to read that!
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux thanks, great talk
It’s sad that so much knowledge was lost in the destruction of Baghdad... kind of like what happened to the library of Alexandria. There's really no telling just what was lost or how much further ahead we would be had those things not happened.
Very sad indeed.
Excellent talk and congratulations. It is great that despite all elections havoc these days in Europe with some old bad and intolerant ideas coming back in some places, more openness and interest to learn and dig deeper is also getting ground, challenging old views and showing the interconnectivity and cross-breeding across cultures, religious and other beliefs, which shaped human (WO)MANkind. (E.g. College de France talks gives some testimony of that). Just an add-on, the threat to rewrite history and eliminate other cultures' contribution is unfortunately not a European phenomena alone... Look at some, sometimes on-going efforts in more authoritative regimes left and write to eliminate and keep only what suits in history... it is a global threat indeed and task to confront and overcome such negative efforts with enlightening speeches and more, like Koert's talk here. Bravo again 👏 and keep going. I am waiting for your podcast series 🙂
You are absolutely right that this is not a pure European phenomenon. However, as the European and American history books on philosophy are the most read and spread, the idea that philosophy is mostly European is being read worldwide. In any case, thanks for pointing out the podcast idea. I should get started with this indeed!
Thank you...
😊
Beautiful speech. God bless you.
Thank you very much!
"is it possible, that it is still convenient to some people today?"
the powerful everywhere and all through time divide the people to keep them from looking up.
Thank you, From Egypt
Thank you and greetings from Brussels to Egypt, the country where I lived 5 years!
Finally got some insight into how religion and the church actively suppressed so much enlightening knowledge and progress back then. Sad but important to know.
What I said is just the top of the iceberg, I am afraid...
Okay I knew a lot of stuff about how a lot of mathematics is actually Arabic but all the philosophy stuff is really cool!
Thanks!
It's really amazing
Thank you very much!
idk about y'all but i deadass thought math and science was mostly just a western thing before this talk. big shoutout for opening my eyes on that one.
Thank you, I am happy to hear that.
This blew my mind! I never realized how much the Islamic world contributed to the Renaissance. It's crazy to think that algebra - which I struggled with in school lol came from a Persian scientist. Makes me wonder what other historical connections we're missing.
Thank you so much. I am sure there are many other historical connection we don't know well. We need much more research.
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux true
The image of families picnicking in the mosque really stuck with me. It's such a contrast to the tense, serious portrayal of Islam we often see in media. Reminds me not to judge a whole culture based on its extremes and that there's always more to the story.
This is so mind-blowing, and also the stuff about algebra coming from Indian numbers? I guess we just assume the ancient world was so isolated from one another but they really weren't.
The ancient world was very related indeed. Thanks for your comment!
I think it's important to acknowledge that education is an institution and within every institution is an agenda. The reason they don't teach us about this stuff in school is the same reason they don't teach us about colonization. It doesn't serve that agenda.
I think this is true, but only partly. Most teachers have learned this story since more than 200 years, and don't know the other story at all. It is our duty to bring this knowledge back. If people then refuse to rethink history, then we can speak of bad will.
The sad part is how the history of those places gets lost even to them
Nice video ❤❤❤
Thank you :)
Yeah it's unbelievable how euro-centric the majority perspective is in terms of how society has developed.
Indeed. I was actually pretty shocked how widespread this was.
There are a lot of missing pieces of history. It's hard not to think it is done intentionally
It was intentionally indeed, mostly in the 18th century. That's the reason why it is hard to change: for centuries we grew up with this narrow view of history.
I’m from Milan and Italian school system totally embrace foreign cultures and discoveries.
They speak of the contributions of Arabs to science and mathematics?
@@stephaneboisjoli1320 Absolutely yes. Starting from Elementary School, first step after nursery schools.
I’m curious to know if in Arab Countries they do the same about European studies and so on.
@@EdoardoDeLarge I’m Egyptian and I can tell you, yes we do in the Arab world embrace all other civilizations and their contributions to history and humanity . I studied since middle school history subject where we studied all the ancient civilizations Egyptian of course which is ours, Greeks, Roman, Persian in the 1st year. Then in 2nd year we studied middle ages, the Islamic Civilization, the ottoman empire, the Mogul empire and The indian empire, also European dark age. Then in the 3rd year, we studied the renaissance in Europe, the colonization of north and South America, the Steam revolution in England up to the modern era. I’m glad to hear that in Italy they teach the influence of other civilizations and cultures.
@@sarahrefky600 Thanks a lot for your message!
I’m sure that reality isn’t the one exposed by Debeuf.
@@EdoardoDeLarge It isn't indeed. This is part of a much larger discussion...
La unión hace la fuerza ❤ togetherness makes us stronger ❤
Kinda trippy to think about how our modern numbering system originated from arabic numerals that came from india. the connectivity of it all is wild.
It is indeed!
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux
So what I'm hearing is that immigrants have been helping boost both the scientific and philosophical aspects of a culture for literal centuries and we _still_ haven't learnt to embrace them?
You make a very good point indeed.
Yeah, I was just starting high school when 9/11 happened and I remember the shift in attitude towards girls wearing hijabs, it was awful
I can truly imagine how awful it was.
Change starts with acknowledging the contributions of all cultures and I can't help but wonder how much of other cultures history/contributions has been erased?
Indeed, it is a enormous work to try to find out the contributions of all cultures. Working on it :)
I was surprised to hear him say he was a historian and a philosopher and hadn't known about how beautiful Islamic culture is. Sure I get the whitewashing of basic history but I assumed anyone who studied ancient history in school would know
Well, I share your surprise. Btw, in many schools that is still not the case, unfortunately.
The part about scientific vs religious truth was intriguing... It's fascinating that Muslim philosophers were grappling with these ideas centuries ago. Goes to show that critical thinking and questioning aren't unique to any one culture.
So why did it Stop suddenly?
Uhuh..so why aren't they selfcritical when it concerns all the horrendous violence commited in the name of their "religion".?
My I remind you that a handfull of philosophers do not represent an entire community..
If anything _not_ learning about it just does a disservice to everything else we learn from that time period… like our idea of that time is that the world was so much smaller and less connected than what it actually was.
Why don’t we learn more about these Islamic philosophers in school? They've had such a huge impact, seems kind of wrong that we never learn about them. And I went to school before 9/11.
Good question! As a matter of fact Arabic philosophy was erased from the History of Philosophy in the 18th and 19th century, as German scholars believed philosophy was about the truth, the truth is Christian and thus European. Arabic philosophy was therefore step by step sidelined in our history and our education. My book about this will appear at the end of 2024, in case you are interested in more details. :)
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux somewhat shocking, however not surprising. In the power of creation, this has so little to do with "the God of my understanding." Power is delivered to the masses and created in the name of beliefs. The War of Differences has nothing do with the love and protection of its people. It has everything to do with control and spreading fear among the people, fear of those who do not believe as I. Philosophy that is side stepped, threatens dogma and control over the masses. Let's call upon and create Chaos!
I've always found it interesting (and heart-breaking) how it seems a common theme for invaders back then to destroy all the books and the knowledge. I'm sure there's a tactical reason they did that but it seems such a waste.
To be fair most "western" countries were colonized by Europeans so to me it makes a lot of sense that all the history we'd be taught is Eurocentric. The more globalization comes into effect though the more this will be corrected, hopefully.
True. That's why indeed it is our mission to correct this Eurocentric view. All help is welcome!
Koert says at 2:44 "what I learned was that our real history looks very differently." Waw! Koert is rewriting history. Koert is a genius. What Koert should know is that history is a set of lies agreed upon. Koert should have said: "I think that the real history looks very differently." Koert should have said: "propaganda changes the course of history." It is very painful to hear politicians talk about history. Nevertheless: the Umayyad mosque is wonderful. Koert sure knows how to lure us into his propaganda. Koert never mentions how the US bombed Bagdad. Koert never mentions how Islam in Europe now differs from homeland Islam. Warmongers will always recover history. I'm very interested on Koert's historical views regarding Russian culture in these dark days. What I think I really want to say is how ridiculously lighthearted and pretentious this "exposé" is.
👏👏👏
I love my country India 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
GOOD
Thanks!
Imagine a world without the contributions of Islamic scholars... things would be so different.
It is actually hard to imagine! Thanks for pointing out.
Yeah I knew there was going to be a part of the story that was a bummer. The 7:00 mark was definitely it for me. Why do invaders always want to take out the knowledge first?
Interesting point. I assure you the destruction of the House of Wisdom is one of the biggest "bummers" of history. However, no all invaders destroyed knowledge luckily. If not, not much knowledge would have been left!
I don't agree that science says our soul is mortal/dies with the body. Science acknowledges that energy can't be destroyed, and what is our soul if not the energy of us?
For all clarity, I am not giving my opinion on the soul. I only try to explain how ideas about the soul travelled through history. You have the absolute right to disagree.
@@KoertDebeuf-mi4ux we agree to disagree then, all cool
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It wasn’t erased. It’s quite well known. It just wasn’t part of the European renaissance.
My response to this talk - so what?