This is one of those moments where the customer shows up, Ray looks them straight in the eye, puts his stethoscope down around his neck, and just slowly shakes his head.
The cause of death I’m afraid to say is a broken connecting rod on cylinder 3. The loss of oil was too much to save the engine. I’m sorry for your loss.
It is a possibility that the engine had prior damage with a slightly bent rod and that is why the compression on that cylinder was lower. The weakened rod gave way under load. I had this happen to an older Jeep that was driven in the water and hydro locked. It lasted a few months after the repair until a rod snapped and went through the block.
I saw the same thing happen to an SRT4. The owner drove through deep water with an aftermarket cold air intake and it hydro locked the engine. I got the water out, turned it over easily by hand, turned it over by the starter, then we did a compression test. That one cylinder was 40 psi low. So we pulled the oil pan and checked the rod out, it was bent and twisted but it ran. So we replaced the rod on that cylinder, and I still have the bent and twisted one!
Brother had a TR6 that did the slowest rollover in history ( Slid down an ice covered road sideways propelled by wind, no forward speed.) Hydro locked one cylinder and the piston failed at the oil ring. Being a glorified tractor engine it just pushed the piston top up and kept on running on 5 cylinders.
Okay. So if you watched the first video, you can see that Ray diagnosed low compression on #3 after documented misfires on that cylinder. The wet plug is a symptom of misfires. The odd coloration if the valves indicate fueling is *not efficient.* (That is key.) I noted that there wasn’t another compression check after the rather superficial brake-clean valve washing Ray did…but no big deal. In followup on Ray’s off duty channel, the misfire was still present and Ray’s suggestion to the customer was that further investigation would mean pulling the cylinder head which apparently the customer was mulling over when this failure occurred. BTW, I noticed Ray never checked the oil (at least on camera) in the first video. There may have been clues in the oil indicating ring or other issues (fuel washing into the oil, etc.) but whatever. The failure is an either/or guess (valve-suck or piston failure) and Ray cannot be blamed because he advised that further (expensive) investigation was required. That’s my arm-chair take.
these engines have a habit of dropping valve seats. with the low compression, I would bet that a valve seat dropped and it threw the rod when the piston could not travel up anymore.
I am a car nut and so fascinated with channels like these! I can’t physically do the work, I don’t have the confidence in that way, but I love watch the videos and learning. Helps me take care of my own car!
I've watched a lot of Eric's autopsies , now I've finally heard the death rattles from one rolling into the ER . Having experienced things dying after I'd repaired them , i know what you mean about not a good look , but having the confidence to know I'd done everything correctly I managed to cope with the odd customer having a skeptical look on their face. What really blows my mind is the lack of error codes in the ECU !!!
Nothing wrong with that engine's electronics. The spark plugs were firing, the crank and cam position sensors were reading correctly, no overheat warning. The problem was purely mechanical, the ECU doesn't care about that as long as the camshafts remain in time.
I understand that and hopefully he put it in writing because guess what, the customer could LIE. I have been here done this and had to learn the hard way.@@jilbertb
I would say the valve marks were caused post destruction. I suspect the piston was thrown higher than normal by the flailing rod, and the valves just hit it knocking it back down again. My guess is the initial low compression was caused by a crack in the side of the piston. eventually the piston failed temporarily seizing in the cylinder breaking the rod.
thinking same. could be 100 different things.... but not many present as... looking like it was building compression, but quickly bleeding off. broken ring land? valve seat failure? axial wear due to oil passage contamination or blockage?
@@DeeGee-mv6eq Eric O is the South Main Auto channel guy, from upstate New York. "I Do Cars" Eric is the Importapart guy from the suburbs of St. Louis.
I have a half inch ultra long one. Keep it in the cargo area of my 79 Subaru because it's a perfect spark plug wrench for that engine. Just the perfect odd shape to remove the plugs quickly without using another tool besides a spark plug socket.
Speed wrenches were great for removing oil pan, transmission pan and rear axle bolts once you broke them with a socket wrench. They also don't break down or need recharging.
@@waldolemmer the poor compression's more a symptom than a cause. It *looks* as Ray suggested like the engine dropped a valve or two which caused it to mince up the piston and connecting rod... Although there's nowhere near enough carnage in the cylinder to suggest that bar the marks on the piston top which elude to the valves colliding with the piston - Weird.
@@DigBipper188if I remember correctly this had overheated before but low compression/ bad rings can cause a piston to cock in the bore. It's certainly a possibility here as there's not much of any malice in the combustion palace
I don't know what everyone is getting excited about, the engine just needs a few BG snake oil additive rinse cycles, 3 good heat soaks by baking that puppy for 45 minute intervals at 2000 rpm's. This will increase compression and clean out all that nasty carbon.
I bought one with only front camera and an attachment mirror thingy to save money. Then I bought one with 2nd view rear camera to save sanity. Anxiety of mirror falling off is real.
@@gcrauwels941 NOOOOOOOOOOOO i drive a 2006 S60 2.5T daily i feel man that and the timing gives me anxiety. I already replaced a timing solenoid for the intake cam
@@crashoverride328I often wonder where the term Borescope came from. Now I know, it’s used for scoping cylinder BORES! 😁 I have used my scope for looking at many other locations, but never used it for inspecting cylinder bores.
On the newer pentastar engines I’ve found cyl 3 or 5 misfires on cold starts usually means coolant is leaking into the offending cylinder. My guess this happened from that cylinder trying to compress a liquid.
@@joseph73515 bent rod would also explain low compression.. I didnt see the first video .. of course theres many explanations for a bent rod here.. if the low compression was due to a crack already starting on the piston, then it failed on the bottom side, breaking the rod which of course flails around and bends then breaks another piece off of.. hard to really see what was going on without pulling the head and getting the piston out... kind of a moot point because the engine is too far gone to be repaired.. if a CJD dealer wants to pull the head and diagnose for a possible lifetime warranty claim then they could.. i can say its not the first time ove heard of a misfire due to a cracked piston on a 3.6
The fact that there are 4 perfectly cut areas on the piston indicates that’s the way it comes from the factory. I’m willing to bet if you pulled the other spark plugs you’d see the same on other pistons. The crack could be explained by defective piston along with the con rod. I’m sure there’s dozens more scenarios but a bent con rod pulling the piston too far down could cause a break. Wet piston, over fuel… the owner could have been pulling a hill reviving the engine too hard too. I love the videos/channel & love poppinzee huud. Thanks for taking the time to entertain us Ray! Stay blessed!
I'm shocked and amazed at the plethora of issues that relatively low mileage, late model vehicles are experiencing. I bought a used 2006 Chevy Express 2500 cargo van with 140k on it. I performed basic maintenance on it and installed a transmission cooler. I loaded it with all my earthly possessions and drove it 2,400 miles from San Diego to Charlotte towing a loaded Uhaul trailer and have had zero issues. The van now has 180k on it.
@@R_B62 Working in Livery service as a Towncar we put 400,000 miles on each of two 2004 GMC Denali's. They were replaced with 2010 Lincoln Navigators, which we were excited to get our hands on. After one day with one each of us wanted our Denali's back because they were heavier and had more luggage room. And there were a lot of miles left in the engines because there was no oil being burned after 400,000 miles with no major repairs.
My Wife and I purchased a Chrysler mini van, brand new drove it off the lot, 60,000 miles the transmission went out, destroyed, alot of carnage like this engine, fortunately it had a 100,000 mile warranty, when we traded the van years later we had over 200,000 miles and still going with a new transmission.
@@tomhendricksen1805 When I'm buying a car, I rent one for a while to see how it compares. This minimises buyer remorse. I have rejected 3 big brands and bought the 4th.
If the old injector was stuck open, dumping too much fuel, that could have been just enough to cause slight hydro-lock, fracturing the piston, and it was just a matter of time before things went south. That could also have explained the misfire as well. Just a theory. I'll wait for the autopsy, if there is one.
I wasn't thinking about how it could have hydra-lock, but it hydra-locking was my first thought. It's a shame Rey had spent so much time on this vehicle, only for it to destroy itself. I don't remember Rey scoping cylinder three when he found the low compression and if he had, I wonder if the piston crack was there?
Ray, I went back to look at the previous video for this vehicle 2 weeks ago. I bet the head separated enough (was already beginning to happen during last video, thus low compression when you checked it) from the block to allow coolant to flood into cyl 3, hydro locked and kablooey!
There would be evidence of coolant on the piston since it was no longer moving as well as coolant while running. The cylinder was wet from fuel, but a stuck injector could have caused this as well. There would not have been enough fuel sprayed from the short time it ran to leave fuel behind and any fuel that filled the cylinder would have been flushed out while they were driving it. I suspect the piston was failing, presenting low compression, then just gave up, cracked, wedged itself and snapped the rod. Without pulling the head and retrieving the piston, it is all speculation behind the failure.
@@acdii I agree that the piston was the issue. The injector was replaced in last video. Even if it wasn’t I doubt you could get enough fuel in the combustion chamber. Most of that fuel would go out the exhaust. I’ve seen engines (direct injection though) have an injector dump fuel. Pouring Right out the exhaust.
@@Angl0sax0nknight True, but keep in mind they fire on the compression stroke where the valves are all closed, and if it can dump in enough fuel to fill the combustion chamber, that is essentially all it takes, and them the next stroke pushes the fuel out. Let me clarify something though, it would not be enough to hydrolock the engine, but enough to cause damage over time.
Is it possible that an injector stuck open could fill the combustion chamber when the engine is shut off and the fuel rail is still pressurized? The chamber is only 52cc’s(if a quick google search is accurate) of volume. That might prime things for the next startup and explain no coolant, bent/broken rod, lack of valve train damage, and cracked piston. Not “really” Ray’s fault, just bad parts lottery fail.
From Aussie 🇦🇺 love your segments , retired 2 years ago from the trade and have watched a bunch of your episodes, I'm suprised to see the amount you guys in the US use power drivers or ratchets and obviously you have like so many more brands to work on, lucky you🤣 keep up the great contents.
Definitely one of the most interesting videos I've seen for a few weeks. I'm the kind of guy that likes watching the 'just rolled in' type videos. "The engine is making a funny sound" and then you find a hole in the engine. I love that you tear it apart to try and figure out what is going on. A lot of mechanics would just call and say 'There's a hole in your engine and it is junk." This guy is at least going to get a solid diagnosis of what happened.
Rays previous videos showing the low compression/misfire will cover his ass. Misfire cause the lean condition and the piston was damaged prior to rays repair. It would explain the low compression and eventual failure.
I agree, Rays attention to detail and video detailing every step of the diagnostic process will show that the damage was done long before he touched it! I believe the fault lies with the manufacturer defects in the cylinder head and had the customer not driven it while waiting for dealer to replace the head it might not have self destructed!
Hope you have a nice weekend Ray. Unfortunately the engine has blown up! Just so happens my sister has a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica with the same engine. She has always taken care of her vehicles over the last 60 years and her husband was an excellent mechanic. Hopefully she will get lots of miles on her Van.
Ray, I just want to let you know that your habit of saying "XYZ Gravity" when dropping stuff has given me a healthier way to respond to dropping/knocking stuff over than just getting angry at myself. Thank you for that. :)
These are known to drop valve seats, probably dropped a seat. They're also known to burn valves before the seat drops, burned valve overheats the seat because burning a/f mixture is torching past the seat, heats a spot which causes thermal shrink and then the seat no longer has the interference fit and eventually falls out while the engine is running.
yup, the damage to the top of the piston says that valve seats were holding the valves open. the piston hit the valves, they wouldn't close, and the connecting rod became a disconnecting rod, and a hammer.
The older Pentastar's R junk. They improved the valve seats and guides circa 2019 or so they have true stainless seating now and guides. There is a notice a jeep dealer gave me here somewhere I could be wrong about the exact date in the change to the heads. Most engines today use a powder cast connecting rod which are total junk
My borescope came with some clip-on accessories - a little (but powerful) magnet, a bendable wire hook, and - a little mirror that clips over the lens of the camera, and allows me to look sideways, or even slightly back up, if I bend the mirror's supporting wire a little. Ask your sales rep if such a thing is an option for your borescope. And since I am now invested in this engine, I vote for an 'I do cars' type autopsy......
Dropped seat seems most likely given the previous issues & diagnosis steps taken. With my Hindsight-2000 20:20 specs on, I'd have advised 'don't drive it until the recall is done'
Ray, if the customer is going to replace the engine, it would be cool to have Eric do the tear down. You have talked about him and his channel in the past it would give both of your channels more exposure highlighting both channels, keep us posted love your channel and greetings from Alaska......
I suspect the rod was already bent when you were diagnosing this the first time. Probably due to being hydrolocked at some point. The valve impact marks on the piston are because the piston was pushed up and didn't come back down when the valves were opened, on the count of it not being connected to the connecting rod any longer.
the bent rod would also explain lower compression in the first vid with the misfires. the stroke apex was at a lower spot than it sould be at. but I would also not rule out burned valves either, and all probably from coolant leanking in over time.
Don't know ownership history, but this has the hallmarks of a lemon lot buy here - pay here, where the backyard mechanic did a looky, and may have seen the issue, but the lot owner went with the; "as long as we keep it running, and add a little heavier oil, we're good to go". Once they sold it, they gave it the tail light warranty, and Ray ended up being the barrier of the bad news. Ray has become quite the auto mechanical pathologist, and an excellent detective.
The damage was most likely done prior to Ray's first repair hence the low compression and misfire, once the replacement injector went in, the misfire was gone which increased the overall loading on the piston rod causing it to finally let go, the sealant and witness marks on the exhaust system tells me that someone stripped it to look for the original fault but didn't complete the diag process, in a sense Ray unwittingly caused the final failure by making the engine run correctly
Keeping up with your oil changes every 3 to 6k miles, and the timing chain jobs every 150k miles...is the key 🗝️ I just put in a new timing chain kit for the second time and I'm at 238k miles on my 2006 dodge ram 1500 with a 3.7 V6 and still running strong 😁
@@cheese6339 Mine still ran fine, I just changed the timing chain just to be safe. After a hundred and fifty thousand miles it's risking it. When a timing chain breaks it can destroys most engines, unless it's a non-interference engine 😅
@@rocketrodlover It's recommended that a timing Job is done on "ANY" engine... at 150 thousand miles. You'r no mechanic by far and don't know squat 🤣. You probably don't even know the difference between an interference and a non-interference motor 🫣
I hope your customer understood you tried to buy some time on an injured engine the first time around, or you had a solid disclaimer. I'm going with the hydro lock theory, that could definitely crack a piston.
Hardest thing to tell a customer, you need a new engine.after you have worked on it 😢 not a fun part of your job. It’s good you video your work. You the man Ray!
I do believe that a video with eric from I Do cars would be great...for both of you guys. The rig looks pretty clean inside and out...hopefully it will get a new heart and a renewed lease on life🙂 A great video as always Ray..keep us posted🙂
I agree that the Pentastar engines are basically breakdowns waiting to happen. I'm amazed that the company that gave us great iron like the 383, the 426 Hemi. the nearly indestructible 318 and slant sixes put out such a piece of crap. Love your channel. Keep up the good work
the 3.6 pentastar is one of the best engines ever produced, from 2019 until now, anyways. I know the 2011-2017s had tons of issues, most of the bad ones being the earlier ones. I think most people just don't take care of their shit with regular maintenance. most people get over 200k when they actually take care of it, but i suppose that goes for most engines these days.
Still running a 3.3 push-rod Plymouth engine in my 99 van. I keep the oil changed and hope it lasts for years. The complexity of these ohc engines is off-putting.
That was my thought, too. Apparently it was driving on the freeway when the engine let go. So, maybe the transmission disengaged or momentarily went into neutral for some reason and the engine over sped when the load was suddenly removed. And perhaps the rev limiter couldn’t catch it in time. But that cracked piston and disintegrated rod definitely looks like an over speed failure.
I really do not believe this failure happend on high rev's. Engine would have destroyed completely on high rev's. This was, in my opinion, a low rev or idle failure
IMO, the failure was in the works when Ray had it previously. It could have been a small piece of the valve break and be enough to offer the low compresion initially and then break free to cause the carnage.
Hydrolock was here an issue. I saw once this exact carnige on a Mercedes OM651 engine (yes the one that randomly deescides to blow up). They are known to overheat and made the collant get into a cylider. It also looked like ony diesel fuel was inside when i took off the head. The connecting rod snapped like in yours but thankfuly somehow more towards the bottom so there was literally no damage to the cylinder linings or any parts. Crankshaft looked brand new. The engine had 280 000km (~170 000 miles). Came from a Vito van. We replaced the connecting rod and did all the bearings preventably since its already opened. Currently the car has 450 000km and is running happy
My grandmas 2013 dodge grand caravan has the 3.6 and has over 237,000 miles on it and burns almost zero oil, it’s a great engine, only major issue she had with the van was the alternator went out but otherwise it’s never let her down
I have a 2013 200 with the pentastar with 194,000 ..I'm happy with it so far been paid off for years and plan on driving the wheels off. The largest repair so far was replacing the AC compressor
Hello from UK Ray love ya channel,if it was my car wouldn’t have the engine repaired couldn’t trust it ,would replace with a salvaged engine , less hours less expense ,keep up the good work Ray look forward to seeing the outcome and more videos,all the best 🚗🛠️
For checking pressure I fully support the usage of whatever you find in the leftovers. Nothing is going to be damaged by that, short of filling the block with gear oil.
Love all of your "exploratory" vids mate and this is right up there! This sort of thing why I hate interference engines & timing belts over chains. Boils down to a simple rebuild to junk that's thrown away.
Ray, that cylinder hydrolocked from fuel when driving. That cylinder was wet with fuel before you replaced the fuel injector in that cylinder, so we know it wasn't the injector, and since the other cylinders didn't have issues it would have to be a faulty ecu or a fault in the software. You might be able to tap the piston out the bottom and if you can look at the ring landings. There should be some distortion in the upper landings.
Or a fault occuring in the wiring harness. Hydrostatic lock, yep yep yepper, especially if the computer is firing individual negative to the injectors. That particular negative came on, holding the injector on. Or the new injector just decided I'm stuck open.
Next time you get low compression do a pressure test, it would have identified rings, valves, or head gasket. If a valve it would identify which one, exhaust or intake.
I'd like to see the wrist pin and the underside of the piston. If that somehow locked up, the crank could've broken the rod off then hammered the piston up into the valves.
I have been driving a 2014 caravan for about 3 years and its already been in the shop at least 7-8 times and needs to go back again. got to love cars lol
Watching your videos brings a smile to my face when I can jump past all the hard work because I've spent too much time under vehicles it activates PTSD to watch it all ;) Keep up the good work..
Classic case of an engine Hydro-locking. The old injector was probably leaking and the cylinder got hydro-locked and bent the small end of the rod, along with the side bend in the rod. This lowered the piston in the bore resulting in low compression when you checked it. You replaced the injector and got the cylinder running again but stress on the bent rod ended up in the rod breaking after being driven for a while. The piston went up to the top of the bore and contacted the valves. The crack in the piston is from the side loading from the bent rod. You could fix this one...a head, piston w/rings, a rod w/new bearings, and an oil pan/windage tray would get it running again, Only problem might be that the bottom of the bore got chewed up....but you could check for that before tearing it down.
If I remember right, the compression was low on cylinder 3. So I'm guessing the old injector was probably leaking fuel or just failed filling cylinder 3 with fuel, causing a hydrolock situation, bending the rod, thus causing the rod to fail
But then how did the piston smash in to the head? The fluid locking it would have stopped that from happening. Unless, It locked, cracked, spun a lap and some how let go on TDC or something... But I feel like the rod would have snapped on "lock" then just left the piston a bit below TDC..
Hi Ray, kitty litter works wonders on oil spills. Cover the oil spill with kitty litter, grind it in with your foot, sweep it up. The oil spill is gone.
The failed fuel injector filled the cylinder and caused a hydraulic shock. There are no other ways to bend the connecting rod. This also explains the misfires. The bent connecting rod lost its strength and eventually broke off and cracked the piston. This happened during the compression stroke and the broken piston, due to inertia, rose to the valves and stopped there until the valves pushed it down. This explains the valve marks on the piston. You should also check the catalytic converter, since a large amount of fuel could have damaged it and replacing the engine could ultimately be in vain if the dust from the destroyed catalytic converter starts circulating through the system. Overall, I like your videos. I hope for interesting continuations.
Love your channel good content all the time. Keeps me engaged!! This is a case of Hydro lock, All from the blown head gasket. The misfire was your warning, to replace head gasket. Them Pentas are fickle, and need high maintenance. If they are wet due to fuel light the spark plug with a match. If it does not burn Change the gasket. had it happen twice to my friends( after warranty replaced first engine due to misfire on cylinder 3 and 5 )she sold it after the second engine blew up.( a misfire on cylinder 3 ) The GM dealer told her the injector was gone, and the plug was fouled on 3, 5 and 4 shortly after it started to knock slightly. Took it back and they said it had a bent lifter. ( Hydro locked is more like it ). Love the car hate the engine.
Now I'm not a mechanic with your knowledge Ray, but when that #3 combustion chamber had such low compression that was a red flag for something seriously wrong. Always look forward to your next video and keep up the great work!
The problem leading to this destruction was present when the low compression was detected. Most likely was a cracked valve that gave way and that piece of metal grenaded the cylinder. It wouldn't take much metal to block the travel at the top of the piston.
I hope you get the opportunity to do a complete exploratory on that motor and find out what happened cuz that's one heck of a catastrophic failure and I would love to know what happened
The 3.6 liters were junk from roughly '11 or '12 going to '16 & '17. Some were lucky and others were not. They were in the minivans, jeeps, cars and some trucks. I have a '15 caravan that had lots of issues with the motor. I'm glad I got the unlimited mileage warranty they were offering at the time and used it very often. Cylinders, rocker arms , oil pump and more constantly being replaced.
The evidence is the orange exhaust gasket making on the cross over pipe and the loose bolt between the oil pan and transmission housing, this engine oil pan was off at sometime, maybe inspection of the lower end for noise or mis fire….this engine was on life support before Ray put the injector in
To bend that rod like it has that cylinder has either filled with fuel, water or oil . Normally if an engine drops a valve the piston disappears in little bits. That looks like it has hydro locked . Didn't you say there was water coming out of the exhaust?
Exhausts will have water in it just through combustion. See that with cold engines and exhausts. I think the wetness of the piston is fuel. The low compression on the earlier video could be a valve is , but I would expect a valve to go through the piston or at least bend horribly, Causing far more damage to top of piston. If hydrolocked by coolant I would think that coolant would mix with the oil with that huge crack in the piston.
If it was hydrolocked, it would not allow the Piston to come up high enough to hit the valves even if they were all open and judging by this picture would have been at the same time which cannot happen. I think Ray is correct by concluding that the rod snapped and the two pieces contacted in a position that allowed the piston to be pushed too far up into the head. You could be right though that it did hydrolock the first time which bent the Rod. The only way to tell is to take the engine apart and see if the piston was rotating in the cylinder at an angle creating more stress on the rod before it snapped.
Hi Ray, I just happen to see this video's title pop up and meandered over to take a look. Just a comment from a non-mechanic but who does own a 2019 Pacifica ICE. If anyone who has commented on this video and prior one just run over to the PacificaForum OR do a search on this engine you would find out there are problems with the engine that the manufacturer has avoided and designed poorly. Being a non mechanic I can describe it as the part that holds the oil filter IIRC is made of plastic. This sits between the two heads and some say that you have to be careful not to over tighten the oil filter. Basically some say that plastic part should have been designed to be made with a more durable material. There is an after market part that's not made of plastic which some owners have switched over to. It's not proven but I hope that it does avoid the model of engine from failure.. Anyway this part is thought to be a possible cause to the oil leakage which then leads to the heads warping and thereafter if not taken care of early engine failure. My statement is a simplification and maybe not accurate but others should read up on this because this is an issue of engine failure for other Pacifica and other models that use this ICE engine. You are diagnosing the aftermath of failures that lead to this major engine failure in y non mechanics understanding. Good luck to the owner.
My 3.8 had 502000kms, only chain was replaced at 350k and there was nothing wrong with the engine, without rust problems, car would be still my daily..
Hi Ray, this video definitely had that "Customer States" feel to it..... All it was missing was, "Customer States that they were 50 ft from the vehicle, completely minding their own business and out of nowhere and completely without warning, the vehicle's engine decided to throw a rod and grenade itself" 😂😂😂😂
@@ralphmbellamy6517 eh while I'm definitely glad that this wasn't my vehicle and I'm also glad that I wasn't the mechanic that worked on it a matter of a week or 2 before it grenaded itself, all of that said, sometimes all you can do in situations like this is awkwardly giggle and slowly back away from what is a situation that frankly noone wants to find themselves in. What makes "Customer States" so hilarious is that the customer pretty much always is clearly lying about how the unmitigated disaster in front of the camera came to be, if the customer just owned up to their moment of stupidity the the whole thing wouldn't be nearly as hilarious. In this case the fact that the customer reported seeing large quantities of smoke and / or water vapour (ie. Steam) coming from under the hood while driving is a bit of a give away that they almost certainly had an opportunity where the vehicle gave them clear signs to pull over and stop immediately but they nevertheless kept driving. Would that have prevented what now looks like a war crime having occurred in the engine bay? Who's to say but it's fair to say that they haven't helped their cause any.
@@hot_wheelz The steam/smoke coming from under the hood was the “it’s too late” point - the inspection holes had already been created. Optimistically, if they had heard the engine make a sudden “clank” noise they might have been able to turn it off before the rod broke - but that’s a matter of seconds at most - and probably takes more time to safely pull off to the side for the road than that. Especially if they were travelling on a freeway when the grenade went off.
hydro lock situation either stuck or shorted fuel injector or head gasket leak. the valves are belt because the piston was pushed up to TDC and the valves just kissed it. I would check to see if the output for that injector is working correctly.
Guessing here, but the low compression could have been caused by a bent connection rod. The cause of that could have been a previous accumulation of liquid in the cylinder (stuck injector?). That would explain the P0303 as well. The final destruction could have been caused by the piston tilting and getting itself wedged in the cylinder, ripping the conrod in two. After that, the loose piston got pushed up by the conrod, hitting the valves and splitting the piston. All speculation, but it would fit all we have seen in this video so far. Curious to see the final post mortem.
@@donwest5387 If the injector leaked down with valves open when the engine was off, fluid accumulated in the cylinder and then it did a compression stroke on startup?
I think this is likely what happened. You have to go back to the initial problem. The cause of the low initial compression was the rod was bent. This might have even been from a drive through water at some point prior. The engine took in a lot of water and stalled. Someone pulled the pan to look for carnage and didn't see any visually and buttoned it back up. However at least one rod is bent and maybe others and number 3 was the first to leave the engine.
I would think, if the piston was loose enough to jam in the cylinder, the motor was at deaths' door? Interesting to see if the cause can be determined. Was this a Chrysler product?
The fact that there are not ANY engine codes means there was no prewarning of the engine failure, had it been a fueling issue there would have been a misfire indicated on that cylinder, or a fueling fault idicated ie lean or over rich trouble codes, the fact that the ECU did not pick up on any issues is highly unsual in a total failure like this, it seems like it was an instantanious detonation in number three, where by the piston cracked and became wedged in the cylinder on the up stroke, bent the rod that then broke free, sending the piston up against the valve set and then destroying the block and oil sump
Finally someone with some knowledge, so refreshing to see in a comment section that is full of internet ‘master techs’. DTCs won’t tell you what failed but would indicate misfires and incorrect exhaust gases if the injector was dumping enough fuel to lock the piston in the cylinder. Generally I don’t see cracked piston crowns from hydro locks, bent/snapped rods and smashed skirts but the crown is usually in one piece, but I haven’t worked on these engines. Whatever happened here seems to have happened extremely quickly, I would have checked to see if there were any pending codes and how long since the codes were reset, a lot of people try to hide stuff these days with their cheap Bluetooth OBD tools. Either way, I would want to take it apart to find out anyway, these days though people don’t want to pay for that extra time, they just want a new engine installed and not to know if it could just be fixed with a new short block.
Possible that it had a cracked head or blown head gasket and hydrolocked on coolant, and that problem might have started previously when it had low compression on that cylinder. The rod may have already been bent contributing to the catastrophic failure later.
Well, if there's a bright side to this carnage, you didn't have to spend any WD40 to lubricate the lower bolts for the pan removal. Don't know about the Pentastar motors, have had my fill of Mitsubishi V6s from the 90s, they were also externally self lubricating. Very interested to see what you find once the engine is removed.
We bought a used 1993 Mitsubishi Diamante Wagon with 21k miles--made/assembled in Australia. Good car for our young family with kids. We maintained her well and gave us 194k generally trouble free miles (. Lots of room in the engine compartment to work--not like Toyota/Lexus engine bay today. Brakes were not Diamante parts but Montero part numbers. I recall power steering hoses/rack prematurely leaked/dried out or such. Good service until she became a smoker--poorly designed valve stem seals. Time to replace steering rack and valve stem seals so we sold her. Overall good experience but my only Mitsubishi. Same engine in my in-laws Chrysler minivan--and she became a smoker.
The slant six was indestructible, but couldn't meet pollution standards without being severely underpowered, that said modern Chrysler / Stellantis engines are all junk and known for their engine problems across all their product lines
Rod went 1st. Came back around and smacked piston into head causing outward crack. Checking the installed height on the valves will confirm the level of push thru.
Glad to see I am not the only mechanic that watches I do cars to see the destruction. I worked at a local race sho and have seen much greater destruction than you see there. Like a nitro motor with the head totally blown off.
That's a fairly new car (2017). The bearing didn't look so bad. What's the mileage on it? (I agree. A fuel injector doesn't do that. There's got to be more into the history of that car. Also, the silicone presence by the exhaust tells me somebody has worked on that engine before, again, there's more into the story of that car that has not been shared with you.
A leaking injector might have caused an aqua-lock and cracked the piston. Definitely could have bent a rod. Looks like it has been an ongoing problem for a while. I'd think it had been damaged before it came in the first time. Hence, the low compression.
@joebloggs2635 I would agree with your statement as well, but the silicone in the mufflers... says... there's more into it. No experienced mechanic uses silicone in a muffler. Without knowing if the car was purchased at a buy here, pay here place... Oops, I said too much already. 😅 Or... if the car is an original owner. There are too many unknown factors.
The customer has already said there has been several people who has worked on it in the past, trying to fix the misfire problems but without success. And in the first video he commented on the witness marks on several fasteners. There were also some that were lose enough that he remarked on them. All in all I can't see how the owner has kept anything from him. He brought the car to Ray as he hadn't gotten any result with the other garages he had work on the car. And given that all Ray did was inspect, replace one injector, and run a cleaning solution through it this was most likely caused by a preexisting problem. Exactly what the cause was remains to be seen.
i've got an 01 grand caravan with the 3.3 v6 and 299k miles that recently did something similar. it developed a knock on the freeway between pickup and the first stop on my delivery route at 3AM over 100 miles from home, so i kept driving it, it survived the whole route then locked up on my way home. the wrist pin on cylinder 2 broke off, and the crank side of that connecting rod oblonged out until one side snapped. some of the other pistons have marks from hitting the crank also.
Had a couple of these experiences in my early days with British cars, I still have what's left of the pistons and rods on the wall as trophies. But having owned Japanese cars for the last 40 years, these sorts of failures are a fond memory. To be fair, knowing when to switch an engine off and not keep driving helps I guess.
Fun fact: penta means five. This PentaSTAR engine has the correct configuration now.
✔️ 😉
After the fact checking is completed, it turns out you're correct.
They designed it with a spare for just such an occasion.
The new cylinder deactivation - piston deletion.
@@MattExzy ....the "abrupt/extreme" option...👀
This is one of those moments where the customer shows up, Ray looks them straight in the eye, puts his stethoscope down around his neck, and just slowly shakes his head.
And says, he's not gonna make it.
Very well put. LOL!
Time of death, now
The cause of death I’m afraid to say is a broken connecting rod on cylinder 3. The loss of oil was too much to save the engine. I’m sorry for your loss.
It’s dead Jim.
It is a possibility that the engine had prior damage with a slightly bent rod and that is why the compression on that cylinder was lower. The weakened rod gave way under load. I had this happen to an older Jeep that was driven in the water and hydro locked. It lasted a few months after the repair until a rod snapped and went through the block.
Yes, metal fatigue does that.
I saw the same thing happen to an SRT4. The owner drove through deep water with an aftermarket cold air intake and it hydro locked the engine. I got the water out, turned it over easily by hand, turned it over by the starter, then we did a compression test. That one cylinder was 40 psi low. So we pulled the oil pan and checked the rod out, it was bent and twisted but it ran. So we replaced the rod on that cylinder, and I still have the bent and twisted one!
Does it rain in Florida?
Brother had a TR6 that did the slowest rollover in history ( Slid down an ice covered road sideways propelled by wind, no forward speed.) Hydro locked one cylinder and the piston failed at the oil ring. Being a glorified tractor engine it just pushed the piston top up and kept on running on 5 cylinders.
That is exactly what crossed my mind when I saw the bent rod
Okay. So if you watched the first video, you can see that Ray diagnosed low compression on #3 after documented misfires on that cylinder.
The wet plug is a symptom of misfires. The odd coloration if the valves indicate fueling is *not efficient.* (That is key.)
I noted that there wasn’t another compression check after the rather superficial brake-clean valve washing Ray did…but no big deal.
In followup on Ray’s off duty channel, the misfire was still present and Ray’s suggestion to the customer was that further investigation would mean pulling the cylinder head which apparently the customer was mulling over when this failure occurred.
BTW, I noticed Ray never checked the oil (at least on camera) in the first video. There may have been clues in the oil indicating ring or other issues (fuel washing into the oil, etc.) but whatever.
The failure is an either/or guess (valve-suck or piston failure) and Ray cannot be blamed because he advised that further (expensive) investigation was required.
That’s my arm-chair take.
decent arm chair take--this engine was on it's way out when he first got it---i hope ray gets to install the replacement
these engines have a habit of dropping valve seats. with the low compression, I would bet that a valve seat dropped and it threw the rod when the piston could not travel up anymore.
Broken timing belt or chain
Broken timing belt or chain
If it was a broken timing belt or chain he would not have been able to drive it into the shop. @@wendwllhickey6426
I am a car nut and so fascinated with channels like these! I can’t physically do the work, I don’t have the confidence in that way, but I love watch the videos and learning. Helps me take care of my own car!
me, 2...really make you appreciate a skilled mechanic...
I've watched a lot of Eric's autopsies , now I've finally heard the death rattles from one rolling into the ER .
Having experienced things dying after I'd repaired them , i know what you mean about not a good look , but having the confidence to know I'd done everything correctly I managed to cope with the odd customer having a skeptical look on their face.
What really blows my mind is the lack of error codes in the ECU !!!
default ecu mode : "nothing to see here, move along, move along....."
The lack of error codes would imply the customer didn't drive it much after it blew up, probably just enough to get to safety.
Eric O lover
Nothing wrong with that engine's electronics. The spark plugs were firing, the crank and cam position sensors were reading correctly, no overheat warning. The problem was purely mechanical, the ECU doesn't care about that as long as the camshafts remain in time.
@@douglasburnsideeven the crank position sensor would probably have not thrown a code in this situation.
How much you wanna bet the customer is going to say this is your fault?!
No doubt about it.
Yeah, but Ray did present the problem to the customer b4 they left the shop, so....
I understand that and hopefully he put it in writing because guess what, the customer could LIE. I have been here done this and had to learn the hard way.@@jilbertb
All the BG snake oil additives in the world wouldn't save the engine that was on the eve of destruction.
well they came back so, no
I love the 3.6, I work at a chrysler dealer and that engine paid off my house and it's buying me a new truck
what's not to love about that? lol
What kind of truck?
That bad eh? This is from the liberal deep state and their constant push for more and more mileage. This is what we call diminishing returns.
Hemi...dropped valve seals bought my a lake front cottage!
Junk engineering.
Randomly came across this channel as a suggestion from watching Scotty, and now I have a new channel to keep me awake at night
Don't mention Scotty...😤
Ray is an actual mechanic who can fix things Scotty just gets mad and waves his arms around!
For some it's location, location, location but for you it's equipment, fluids, tools...great videos
I would say the valve marks were caused post destruction. I suspect the piston was thrown higher than normal by the flailing rod, and the valves just hit it knocking it back down again. My guess is the initial low compression was caused by a crack in the side of the piston. eventually the piston failed temporarily seizing in the cylinder breaking the rod.
thinking same. could be 100 different things.... but not many present as... looking like it was building compression, but quickly bleeding off. broken ring land? valve seat failure? axial wear due to oil passage contamination or blockage?
Thanks shade tree tommy!
That piston crack looked kinda old ....
@@lilshawn2 I wonder what the pin connecting the piston to the rod looks like, or the missing part of the rod, if still attached to the piston.
I agree; piston failure
Seems like a perfect time for Eric to travel to FL and collaborate on this tear down.
Eric O lover
@@DeeGee-mv6eqwrong Eric
@@DeeGee-mv6eq Eric O is the South Main Auto channel guy, from upstate New York. "I Do Cars" Eric is the Importapart guy from the suburbs of St. Louis.
@@Larry_Harvilla What about Eric the Car guy 🤣🤣
@@alb12345672 I think he's from California but I haven't watched his stuff in forever.
The speed wrench used to be the MANUAL power tool of the day!
I have a couple of speed wrenches
After owning it for 40 years i still let one occupy space in my upper box.
I have a half inch ultra long one. Keep it in the cargo area of my 79 Subaru because it's a perfect spark plug wrench for that engine. Just the perfect odd shape to remove the plugs quickly without using another tool besides a spark plug socket.
I have speed wrenches in 3/8' and 1/2". I still use them.
Speed wrenches were great for removing oil pan, transmission pan and rear axle bolts once you broke them with a socket wrench. They also don't break down or need recharging.
What surprises me is the engine still runs!
What's cool about these videos is that we already know the ending, but we still want to watch
I had a feeling that van's engine wasn't gonna last when you did the compression test last time, shame what happened
How did bad compression lead to this? Or was it the cause of the bad compression that led to this? I thought rods only break when doing money shifts
@@waldolemmer the poor compression's more a symptom than a cause. It *looks* as Ray suggested like the engine dropped a valve or two which caused it to mince up the piston and connecting rod... Although there's nowhere near enough carnage in the cylinder to suggest that bar the marks on the piston top which elude to the valves colliding with the piston - Weird.
@@DigBipper188if I remember correctly this had overheated before but low compression/ bad rings can cause a piston to cock in the bore. It's certainly a possibility here as there's not much of any malice in the combustion palace
I don't know what everyone is getting excited about, the engine just needs a few BG snake oil additive rinse cycles, 3 good heat soaks by baking that puppy for 45 minute intervals at 2000 rpm's. This will increase compression and clean out all that nasty carbon.
Where is the first video with that car?
I think Ray needs one of those borescopes with two cameras... (One axial, and the other on the side)
I bought one with only front camera and an attachment mirror thingy to save money.
Then I bought one with 2nd view rear camera to save sanity. Anxiety of mirror falling off is real.
They're cheap now. Used one to 100% confirm my Volvo 2.5 had cracked the block up by the deck.
@@gcrauwels941 NOOOOOOOOOOOO i drive a 2006 S60 2.5T daily i feel man that and the timing gives me anxiety. I already replaced a timing solenoid for the intake cam
@@JasonW. Even the ones with an articulating head are inexpensive now.
@@crashoverride328I often wonder where the term Borescope came from. Now I know, it’s used for scoping cylinder BORES! 😁 I have used my scope for looking at many other locations, but never used it for inspecting cylinder bores.
I personally like the 5 cylinder sound, that's an improvement.
And it's nice of Chrysler to integrate those self-made inspection ports as well. Quality engineering.
😁😁😂😂🤣🤣😁😁
@@dback68 It's been a long time since I saw Chrysler and quality engineering (unironically) in the same sentence
3.5 cilinder
It’s very rhythmic sounding now, isn’t it?
On the newer pentastar engines I’ve found cyl 3 or 5 misfires on cold starts usually means coolant is leaking into the offending cylinder. My guess this happened from that cylinder trying to compress a liquid.
I agree, probably compressed coolant on startup at some point and bent the rod which eventually broke.
@@joseph73515 bent rod would also explain low compression.. I didnt see the first video .. of course theres many explanations for a bent rod here.. if the low compression was due to a crack already starting on the piston, then it failed on the bottom side, breaking the rod which of course flails around and bends then breaks another piece off of.. hard to really see what was going on without pulling the head and getting the piston out... kind of a moot point because the engine is too far gone to be repaired.. if a CJD dealer wants to pull the head and diagnose for a possible lifetime warranty claim then they could.. i can say its not the first time ove heard of a misfire due to a cracked piston on a 3.6
Head gasket
My thoughts exactly
No coolant in oil that I can see.@@timbarry1424
The fact that there are 4 perfectly cut areas on the piston indicates that’s the way it comes from the factory. I’m willing to bet if you pulled the other spark plugs you’d see the same on other pistons. The crack could be explained by defective piston along with the con rod. I’m sure there’s dozens more scenarios but a bent con rod pulling the piston too far down could cause a break. Wet piston, over fuel… the owner could have been pulling a hill reviving the engine too hard too.
I love the videos/channel & love poppinzee huud. Thanks for taking the time to entertain us Ray! Stay blessed!
how is there 0 codes in the ECM when the engine is litterally blown?? that makes 0 sense!
@@dylanlindsay1993the computer got overloaded and said, not worth my time computing, Im out... 😂
What a nightmare!
@@dylanlindsay1993 Situation is probably outside the sensors' registry range.
Lets leave god out of it...
I'm shocked and amazed at the plethora of issues that relatively low mileage, late model vehicles are experiencing. I bought a used 2006 Chevy Express 2500 cargo van with 140k on it. I performed basic maintenance on it and installed a transmission cooler. I loaded it with all my earthly possessions and drove it 2,400 miles from San Diego to Charlotte towing a loaded Uhaul trailer and have had zero issues. The van now has 180k on it.
My 2001 tahoe has 252,000 and going strong. Yea 5.3!!!
@@R_B62 Working in Livery service as a Towncar we put 400,000 miles on each of two 2004 GMC Denali's. They were replaced with 2010 Lincoln Navigators, which we were excited to get our hands on. After one day with one each of us wanted our Denali's back because they were heavier and had more luggage room. And there were a lot of miles left in the engines because there was no oil being burned after 400,000 miles with no major repairs.
My Wife and I purchased a Chrysler mini van, brand new drove it off the lot, 60,000 miles the transmission went out, destroyed, alot of carnage like this engine, fortunately it had a 100,000 mile warranty, when we traded the van years later we had over 200,000 miles and still going with a new transmission.
@@R_B62my 04 tahoe at 281k and damn she rips that 5.3 baby!
@@tomhendricksen1805 When I'm buying a car, I rent one for a while to see how it compares. This minimises buyer remorse. I have rejected 3 big brands and bought the 4th.
If the old injector was stuck open, dumping too much fuel, that could have been just enough to cause slight hydro-lock, fracturing the piston, and it was just a matter of time before things went south. That could also have explained the misfire as well. Just a theory. I'll wait for the autopsy, if there is one.
sounds familiar this is exatly the bane of the 6.4 power stroke , a dirty injector would dump fuel and either hydrolock or torch a piston
Glad I paged down before I posted as I was going to suggest the same thing.
detonation is my guess. Kaboom!
We'll have to wait for the tear-down.
I wasn't thinking about how it could have hydra-lock, but it hydra-locking was my first thought.
It's a shame Rey had spent so much time on this vehicle, only for it to destroy itself.
I don't remember Rey scoping cylinder three when he found the low compression and if he had, I wonder if the piston crack was there?
Ray, I went back to look at the previous video for this vehicle 2 weeks ago. I bet the head separated enough (was already beginning to happen during last video, thus low compression when you checked it) from the block to allow coolant to flood into cyl 3, hydro locked and kablooey!
Only problem with that is there is no evidence of coolant mixing.
There would be evidence of coolant on the piston since it was no longer moving as well as coolant while running. The cylinder was wet from fuel, but a stuck injector could have caused this as well. There would not have been enough fuel sprayed from the short time it ran to leave fuel behind and any fuel that filled the cylinder would have been flushed out while they were driving it. I suspect the piston was failing, presenting low compression, then just gave up, cracked, wedged itself and snapped the rod. Without pulling the head and retrieving the piston, it is all speculation behind the failure.
@@acdii I agree that the piston was the issue. The injector was replaced in last video. Even if it wasn’t I doubt you could get enough fuel in the combustion chamber. Most of that fuel would go out the exhaust. I’ve seen engines (direct injection though) have an injector dump fuel. Pouring Right out the exhaust.
@@Angl0sax0nknight True, but keep in mind they fire on the compression stroke where the valves are all closed, and if it can dump in enough fuel to fill the combustion chamber, that is essentially all it takes, and them the next stroke pushes the fuel out.
Let me clarify something though, it would not be enough to hydrolock the engine, but enough to cause damage over time.
Is it possible that an injector stuck open could fill the combustion chamber when the engine is shut off and the fuel rail is still pressurized? The chamber is only 52cc’s(if a quick google search is accurate) of volume. That might prime things for the next startup and explain no coolant, bent/broken rod, lack of valve train damage, and cracked piston.
Not “really” Ray’s fault, just bad parts lottery fail.
From Aussie 🇦🇺 love your segments , retired 2 years ago from the trade and have watched a bunch of your episodes, I'm suprised to see the amount you guys in the US use power drivers or ratchets and obviously you have like so many more brands to work on, lucky you🤣 keep up the great contents.
Definitely one of the most interesting videos I've seen for a few weeks. I'm the kind of guy that likes watching the 'just rolled in' type videos. "The engine is making a funny sound" and then you find a hole in the engine. I love that you tear it apart to try and figure out what is going on. A lot of mechanics would just call and say 'There's a hole in your engine and it is junk." This guy is at least going to get a solid diagnosis of what happened.
You would love " I DO Cars" another channel and the guy is funny.
I can't help but think the customer will think Ray either misdiagnosed or did something that contributed to the failure.
Almost inevitably. The 'who touched it last' syndrome.
I had that same thought with this video, but also a video from three months ago where a transmission pump failed two weeks after Ray changed the ATF
Rays previous videos showing the low compression/misfire will cover his ass. Misfire cause the lean condition and the piston was damaged prior to rays repair. It would explain the low compression and eventual failure.
I agree, Rays attention to detail and video detailing every step of the diagnostic process will show that the damage was done long before he touched it! I believe the fault lies with the manufacturer defects in the cylinder head and had the customer not driven it while waiting for dealer to replace the head it might not have self destructed!
The joys of having your own business everything great until it isn’t!
It's good that you film everything
Hope you have a nice weekend Ray. Unfortunately the engine has blown up! Just so happens my sister has a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica with the same engine. She has always taken care of her vehicles over the last 60 years and her husband was an excellent mechanic. Hopefully she will get lots of miles on her Van.
Ray, I just want to let you know that your habit of saying "XYZ Gravity" when dropping stuff has given me a healthier way to respond to dropping/knocking stuff over than just getting angry at myself.
Thank you for that. :)
These are known to drop valve seats, probably dropped a seat. They're also known to burn valves before the seat drops, burned valve overheats the seat because burning a/f mixture is torching past the seat, heats a spot which causes thermal shrink and then the seat no longer has the interference fit and eventually falls out while the engine is running.
yup, the damage to the top of the piston says that valve seats were holding the valves open. the piston hit the valves, they wouldn't close, and the connecting rod became a disconnecting rod, and a hammer.
The older Pentastar's R junk. They improved the valve seats and guides circa 2019 or so they have true stainless seating now and guides. There is a notice a jeep dealer gave me here somewhere I could be wrong about the exact date in the change to the heads. Most engines today use a powder cast connecting rod which are total junk
what??never seen one and worked on many
My borescope came with some clip-on accessories - a little (but powerful) magnet, a bendable wire hook, and - a little mirror that clips over the lens of the camera, and allows me to look sideways, or even slightly back up, if I bend the mirror's supporting wire a little. Ask your sales rep if such a thing is an option for your borescope. And since I am now invested in this engine, I vote for an 'I do cars' type autopsy......
The boroscope I got has a side-view camera as well which is quite handy.
china borescope for phone mostly do not have that option.🤔
Eric would be proud of that engine destruction.
rayman can send it in to tear down if not taken appart in vid as core trade in.😁
Malice in the combustion palace for sure.
Forbidden glitter !
Scotty said I told you 😂😮😂
Connecting Rod mcnuggets
Dropped seat seems most likely given the previous issues & diagnosis steps taken. With my Hindsight-2000 20:20 specs on, I'd have advised 'don't drive it until the recall is done'
A dropped valve seat would have spalled up the top of the piston
Ray, if the customer is going to replace the engine, it would be cool to have Eric do the tear down. You have talked about him and his channel in the past it would give both of your channels more exposure highlighting both channels, keep us posted love your channel and greetings from Alaska......
I wish it could work that way. The big issue is Ray is in south Florida and Eric is somewhere by St. Louis. The shipping expense would be enormous.
I suspect the rod was already bent when you were diagnosing this the first time. Probably due to being hydrolocked at some point. The valve impact marks on the piston are because the piston was pushed up and didn't come back down when the valves were opened, on the count of it not being connected to the connecting rod any longer.
That was my thought on the valve marks too.
the bent rod would also explain lower compression in the first vid with the misfires. the stroke apex was at a lower spot than it sould be at. but I would also not rule out burned valves either, and all probably from coolant leanking in over time.
Don't know ownership history, but this has the hallmarks of a lemon lot buy here - pay here, where the backyard mechanic did a looky, and may have seen the issue, but the lot owner went with the; "as long as we keep it running, and add a little heavier oil, we're good to go". Once they sold it, they gave it the tail light warranty, and Ray ended up being the barrier of the bad news. Ray has become quite the auto mechanical pathologist, and an excellent detective.
It would be interesting to send the bore scope through the inspection port to see the devastation on the underside of the piston.
He could just zoom in with the regular camera, he already got the rod out of the way.
And why don't borescopes have 90 degree lens options as standard.
@@SportFury1966
Because some people just want a cheapie with a blurry picture
@@SportFury1966 Because how are you going to get it down there if it has a 90 degree bend in it?
@@SportFury1966 They often include an attachable mirror to the end for 90 degree views
The damage was most likely done prior to Ray's first repair hence the low compression and misfire, once the replacement injector went in, the misfire was gone which increased the overall loading on the piston rod causing it to finally let go, the sealant and witness marks on the exhaust system tells me that someone stripped it to look for the original fault but didn't complete the diag process, in a sense Ray unwittingly caused the final failure by making the engine run correctly
Keeping up with your oil changes every 3 to 6k miles, and the timing chain jobs every 150k miles...is the key 🗝️ I just put in a new timing chain kit for the second time and I'm at 238k miles on my 2006 dodge ram 1500 with a 3.7 V6 and still running strong 😁
That is Toyota Quality mileage. Congrats. I have a 3.6 Jeep.
my chevy 5.3 at 281k never been opened still runs like brand new
@@cheese6339 Mine still ran fine, I just changed the timing chain just to be safe. After a hundred and fifty thousand miles it's risking it. When a timing chain breaks it can destroys most engines, unless it's a non-interference engine 😅
You should never have to replace a timing chain. Just shows you what crap engines Chrysler makes
@@rocketrodlover It's recommended that a timing Job is done on "ANY" engine... at 150 thousand miles. You'r no mechanic by far and don't know squat 🤣. You probably don't even know the difference between an interference and a non-interference motor 🫣
I just started watching,can't stop. When did Ray go off on his own? I sit here for hours watching .Your a great guy.
I knew an old mechanic that only tighten valve covers and oil pans with a speed wrench, less risk of over tightening. That man taught a lot.
With that knock at first I thought Troy had just trolled the master with the old two spanners prank hiding behind the car.
I hope your customer understood you tried to buy some time on an injured engine the first time around, or you had a solid disclaimer. I'm going with the hydro lock theory, that could definitely crack a piston.
Can we please get an update on customer reaction, did they flip out, try to blame your previous work etc.?
Hardest thing to tell a customer, you need a new engine.after you have worked on it 😢 not a fun part of your job. It’s good you video your work. You the man Ray!
Thanks!
I do believe that a video with eric from I Do cars would be great...for both of you guys. The rig looks pretty clean inside and out...hopefully it will get a new heart and a renewed lease on life🙂
A great video as always Ray..keep us posted🙂
@@SimrKherawhy Ohio? I Do Cars is based in St. Louis. He has said as much even. Hazelwood, Mo to be precise.
I agree that the Pentastar engines are basically breakdowns waiting to happen. I'm amazed that the company that gave us great iron like the 383, the 426 Hemi. the nearly indestructible 318 and slant sixes put out such a piece of crap. Love your channel. Keep up the good work
I'm surprised the transmission outlasted the engine.
the 3.6 pentastar is one of the best engines ever produced, from 2019 until now, anyways. I know the 2011-2017s had tons of issues, most of the bad ones being the earlier ones. I think most people just don't take care of their shit with regular maintenance. most people get over 200k when they actually take care of it, but i suppose that goes for most engines these days.
Still running a 3.3 push-rod Plymouth engine in my 99 van. I keep the oil changed and hope it lasts for years. The complexity of these ohc engines is off-putting.
currently got 235k miles on our 2011 3.6, its been fantastic @@TOXIC-jq3ry
It's not the same company that made those engines, it's Fiat, Stellantis
It would be interesting to see what the max engine rpm was recorded by engine computer before the failure. It may provide some evidence later.
That was my thought, too. Apparently it was driving on the freeway when the engine let go. So, maybe the transmission disengaged or momentarily went into neutral for some reason and the engine over sped when the load was suddenly removed. And perhaps the rev limiter couldn’t catch it in time. But that cracked piston and disintegrated rod definitely looks like an over speed failure.
@@frazzledude You make excellent points.
I really do not believe this failure happend on high rev's. Engine would have destroyed completely on high rev's. This was, in my opinion, a low rev or idle failure
The engine can't over rev as the electronics prevent it.
IMO, the failure was in the works when Ray had it previously. It could have been a small piece of the valve break and be enough to offer the low compresion initially and then break free to cause the carnage.
Hydrolock was here an issue. I saw once this exact carnige on a Mercedes OM651 engine (yes the one that randomly deescides to blow up). They are known to overheat and made the collant get into a cylider. It also looked like ony diesel fuel was inside when i took off the head. The connecting rod snapped like in yours but thankfuly somehow more towards the bottom so there was literally no damage to the cylinder linings or any parts. Crankshaft looked brand new. The engine had 280 000km (~170 000 miles). Came from a Vito van. We replaced the connecting rod and did all the bearings preventably since its already opened. Currently the car has 450 000km and is running happy
It was very thoughtful of the Chrysler engineers to put that access opening in the windage tray.
Good ol' Chrysler, never fails to fail
My grandmas 2013 dodge grand caravan has the 3.6 and has over 237,000 miles on it and burns almost zero oil, it’s a great engine, only major issue she had with the van was the alternator went out but otherwise it’s never let her down
I have a 2013 200 with the pentastar with 194,000 ..I'm happy with it so far been paid off for years and plan on driving the wheels off. The largest repair so far was replacing the AC compressor
Hello from UK Ray love ya channel,if it was my car wouldn’t have the engine repaired couldn’t trust it ,would replace with a salvaged engine , less hours less expense ,keep up the good work Ray look forward to seeing the outcome and more videos,all the best 🚗🛠️
Maybe he was doing the person a favor fixing it cheap to give them a few more weeks
For checking pressure I fully support the usage of whatever you find in the leftovers. Nothing is going to be damaged by that, short of filling the block with gear oil.
Love all of your "exploratory" vids mate and this is right up there!
This sort of thing why I hate interference engines & timing belts over chains. Boils down to a simple rebuild to junk that's thrown away.
Ray, that cylinder hydrolocked from fuel when driving. That cylinder was wet with fuel before you replaced the fuel injector in that cylinder, so we know it wasn't the injector, and since the other cylinders didn't have issues it would have to be a faulty ecu or a fault in the software. You might be able to tap the piston out the bottom and if you can look at the ring landings. There should be some distortion in the upper landings.
With the engine running, excess fuel would exit out the exhaust valve and there would never be enough fuel to fill the combustion chamber.
Or a fault occuring in the wiring harness.
Hydrostatic lock, yep yep yepper, especially if the computer is firing individual negative to the injectors.
That particular negative came on, holding the injector on. Or the new injector just decided I'm stuck open.
Next time you get low compression do a pressure test, it would have identified rings, valves, or head gasket. If a valve it would identify which one, exhaust or intake.
He did
I'd like to see the wrist pin and the underside of the piston. If that somehow locked up, the crank could've broken the rod off then hammered the piston up into the valves.
The wrist pin was in the pile of carnage. In perfect condition, naturally.
I have been driving a 2014 caravan for about 3 years and its already been in the shop at least 7-8 times and needs to go back again. got to love cars lol
Watching your videos brings a smile to my face when I can jump past all the hard work because I've spent too much time under vehicles it activates PTSD to watch it all ;) Keep up the good work..
Something tells me they weren't happy to find out it is blown.
That is the risk you take when you buy a Chrysler.
Man these pentastars never fail to deliver. Work for Chrysler and you'll never go hungry, that's for sure
def junk for sure. i cant stand them when they roll into my shop
You know there are troubles when something lets the smoke out.
Only the MAGIC smoke😂
6:15 I'm as surprised as you are that topping up the oil didn't fix that bad knocking noise. Do you find it usually works?
Classic case of an engine Hydro-locking. The old injector was probably leaking and the cylinder got hydro-locked and bent the small end of the rod, along with the side bend in the rod. This lowered the piston in the bore resulting in low compression when you checked it. You replaced the injector and got the cylinder running again but stress on the bent rod ended up in the rod breaking after being driven for a while. The piston went up to the top of the bore and contacted the valves. The crack in the piston is from the side loading from the bent rod. You could fix this one...a head, piston w/rings, a rod w/new bearings, and an oil pan/windage tray would get it running again, Only problem might be that the bottom of the bore got chewed up....but you could check for that before tearing it down.
If I remember right, the compression was low on cylinder 3. So I'm guessing the old injector was probably leaking fuel or just failed filling cylinder 3 with fuel, causing a hydrolock situation, bending the rod, thus causing the rod to fail
Came here to say basically the same thing.
Except he replaced that injector in the last video on this car
@@steve5x565 New don't make it good.
no trouble codes
But then how did the piston smash in to the head?
The fluid locking it would have stopped that from happening.
Unless, It locked, cracked, spun a lap and some how let go on TDC or something...
But I feel like the rod would have snapped on "lock" then just left the piston a bit below TDC..
Hi Ray, kitty litter works wonders on oil spills. Cover the oil spill with kitty litter, grind it in with your foot, sweep it up. The oil spill is gone.
Red RTV is perfect for exhausts, the LS swap guys use it to seal headers as well. It's pretty common.
Also was likely leaking right there and someone couldn't find a gasket.
The failed fuel injector filled the cylinder and caused a hydraulic shock. There are no other ways to bend the connecting rod. This also explains the misfires. The bent connecting rod lost its strength and eventually broke off and cracked the piston. This happened during the compression stroke and the broken piston, due to inertia, rose to the valves and stopped there until the valves pushed it down. This explains the valve marks on the piston. You should also check the catalytic converter, since a large amount of fuel could have damaged it and replacing the engine could ultimately be in vain if the dust from the destroyed catalytic converter starts circulating through the system. Overall, I like your videos. I hope for interesting continuations.
Love your channel good content all the time. Keeps me engaged!! This is a case of Hydro lock, All from the blown head gasket. The misfire was your warning, to replace head gasket. Them Pentas are fickle, and need high maintenance. If they are wet due to fuel light the spark plug with a match. If it does not burn Change the gasket. had it happen twice to my friends( after warranty replaced first engine due to misfire on cylinder 3 and 5 )she sold it after the second engine blew up.( a misfire on cylinder 3 ) The GM dealer told her the injector was gone, and the plug was fouled on 3, 5 and 4 shortly after it started to knock slightly. Took it back and they said it had a bent lifter. ( Hydro locked is more like it ). Love the car hate the engine.
Now I'm not a mechanic with your knowledge Ray, but when that #3 combustion chamber had such low compression that was a red flag for something seriously wrong. Always look forward to your next video and keep up the great work!
The problem leading to this destruction was present when the low compression was detected. Most likely was a cracked valve that gave way and that piece of metal grenaded the cylinder. It wouldn't take much metal to block the travel at the top of the piston.
@@larrybe2900 That's a good analysis! 👍
@@larrybe2900But you’d see multiple points of strike damage on the piston top, which we don’t. Hydro lock would look just like that.
I hope you get the opportunity to do a complete exploratory on that motor and find out what happened cuz that's one heck of a catastrophic failure and I would love to know what happened
I'm also curious to see what else is within the carnage to be found.
ONE MORE QUALITY POS 3.6L(DO NOT STOP BUILDING THIS ENGINE)YALL PUTTING MY CHILDREN THROUGH COLLEGE....THANK YOU PENTASTAR/MERCEDES💥
The 3.6 liters were junk from roughly '11 or '12 going to '16 & '17. Some were lucky and others were not. They were in the minivans, jeeps, cars and some trucks. I have a '15 caravan that had lots of issues with the motor. I'm glad I got the unlimited mileage warranty they were offering at the time and used it very often. Cylinders, rocker arms , oil pump and more constantly being replaced.
Just a question, how do you know that the fuel injector didn't cause a hydrolock and then causing the bending of the rod, looks text book hydrolock.
no trouble codes
@@MrMustangMan Fair enough, a real head scratcher then
The evidence is the orange exhaust gasket making on the cross over pipe and the loose bolt between the oil pan and transmission housing, this engine oil pan was off at sometime, maybe inspection of the lower end for noise or mis fire….this engine was on life support before Ray put the injector in
To bend that rod like it has that cylinder has either filled with fuel, water or oil . Normally if an engine drops a valve the piston disappears in little bits. That looks like it has hydro locked . Didn't you say there was water coming out of the exhaust?
Exhausts will have water in it just through combustion. See that with cold engines and exhausts. I think the wetness of the piston is fuel. The low compression on the earlier video could be a valve is , but I would expect a valve to go through the piston or at least bend horribly, Causing far more damage to top of piston. If hydrolocked by coolant I would think that coolant would mix with the oil with that huge crack in the piston.
Hey ray, could definitely be a hydro lock.
If it was hydrolocked, it would not allow the Piston to come up high enough to hit the valves even if they were all open and judging by this picture would have been at the same time which cannot happen. I think Ray is correct by concluding that the rod snapped and the two pieces contacted in a position that allowed the piston to be pushed too far up into the head. You could be right though that it did hydrolock the first time which bent the Rod. The only way to tell is to take the engine apart and see if the piston was rotating in the cylinder at an angle creating more stress on the rod before it snapped.
I have never heard anything good about the pentastar engines. Good thing I’m not a stellantis owner!
Hi Ray, I just happen to see this video's title pop up and meandered over to take a look.
Just a comment from a non-mechanic but who does own a 2019 Pacifica ICE.
If anyone who has commented on this video and prior one just run over to the PacificaForum OR do a search on this engine you would find out there are problems with the engine that the manufacturer has avoided and designed poorly. Being a non mechanic I can describe it as the part that holds the oil filter IIRC is made of plastic. This sits between the two heads and some say that you have to be careful not to over tighten the oil filter. Basically some say that plastic part should have been designed to be made with a more durable material. There is an after market part that's not made of plastic which some owners have switched over to. It's not proven but I hope that it does avoid the model of engine from failure.. Anyway this part is thought to be a possible cause to the oil leakage which then leads to the heads warping and thereafter if not taken care of early engine failure. My statement is a simplification and maybe not accurate but others should read up on this because this is an issue of engine failure for other Pacifica and other models that use this ICE engine. You are diagnosing the aftermath of failures that lead to this major engine failure in y non mechanics understanding. Good luck to the owner.
Those older 3.3 and 3.8 engines were actually well built. I’ve seen many of these engines with 200-300k miles.
My 3.8 had 502000kms, only chain was replaced at 350k and there was nothing wrong with the engine, without rust problems, car would be still my daily..
Welcome to "Car-topsy"...Dr.Rainman M.E. (Motor Examiner)
Hi Ray, this video definitely had that "Customer States" feel to it..... All it was missing was, "Customer States that they were 50 ft from the vehicle, completely minding their own business and out of nowhere and completely without warning, the vehicle's engine decided to throw a rod and grenade itself" 😂😂😂😂
@@ralphmbellamy6517 eh while I'm definitely glad that this wasn't my vehicle and I'm also glad that I wasn't the mechanic that worked on it a matter of a week or 2 before it grenaded itself, all of that said, sometimes all you can do in situations like this is awkwardly giggle and slowly back away from what is a situation that frankly noone wants to find themselves in. What makes "Customer States" so hilarious is that the customer pretty much always is clearly lying about how the unmitigated disaster in front of the camera came to be, if the customer just owned up to their moment of stupidity the the whole thing wouldn't be nearly as hilarious. In this case the fact that the customer reported seeing large quantities of smoke and / or water vapour (ie. Steam) coming from under the hood while driving is a bit of a give away that they almost certainly had an opportunity where the vehicle gave them clear signs to pull over and stop immediately but they nevertheless kept driving. Would that have prevented what now looks like a war crime having occurred in the engine bay? Who's to say but it's fair to say that they haven't helped their cause any.
@@hot_wheelz The steam/smoke coming from under the hood was the “it’s too late” point - the inspection holes had already been created. Optimistically, if they had heard the engine make a sudden “clank” noise they might have been able to turn it off before the rod broke - but that’s a matter of seconds at most - and probably takes more time to safely pull off to the side for the road than that. Especially if they were travelling on a freeway when the grenade went off.
hydro lock situation either stuck or shorted fuel injector or head gasket leak. the valves are belt because the piston was pushed up to TDC and the valves just kissed it. I would check to see if the output for that injector is working correctly.
When it comes to Stellantis I'm not surprised when an engine blows up, I am surprised when its doesn't.
Guessing here, but the low compression could have been caused by a bent connection rod. The cause of that could have been a previous accumulation of liquid in the cylinder (stuck injector?). That would explain the P0303 as well. The final destruction could have been caused by the piston tilting and getting itself wedged in the cylinder, ripping the conrod in two. After that, the loose piston got pushed up by the conrod, hitting the valves and splitting the piston. All speculation, but it would fit all we have seen in this video so far. Curious to see the final post mortem.
how could there be fluid accumulation if the valve was opening?
@@donwest5387 If the injector leaked down with valves open when the engine was off, fluid accumulated in the cylinder and then it did a compression stroke on startup?
I think this is likely what happened. You have to go back to the initial problem. The cause of the low initial compression was the rod was bent. This might have even been from a drive through water at some point prior. The engine took in a lot of water and stalled. Someone pulled the pan to look for carnage and didn't see any visually and buttoned it back up. However at least one rod is bent and maybe others and number 3 was the first to leave the engine.
I would think, if the piston was loose enough to jam in the cylinder, the motor was at deaths' door? Interesting to see if the cause can be determined. Was this a Chrysler product?
The fact that there are not ANY engine codes means there was no prewarning of the engine failure, had it been a fueling issue there would have been a misfire indicated on that cylinder, or a fueling fault idicated ie lean or over rich trouble codes, the fact that the ECU did not pick up on any issues is highly unsual in a total failure like this, it seems like it was an instantanious detonation in number three, where by the piston cracked and became wedged in the cylinder on the up stroke, bent the rod that then broke free, sending the piston up against the valve set and then destroying the block and oil sump
Finally someone with some knowledge, so refreshing to see in a comment section that is full of internet ‘master techs’.
DTCs won’t tell you what failed but would indicate misfires and incorrect exhaust gases if the injector was dumping enough fuel to lock the piston in the cylinder. Generally I don’t see cracked piston crowns from hydro locks, bent/snapped rods and smashed skirts but the crown is usually in one piece, but I haven’t worked on these engines.
Whatever happened here seems to have happened extremely quickly, I would have checked to see if there were any pending codes and how long since the codes were reset, a lot of people try to hide stuff these days with their cheap Bluetooth OBD tools.
Either way, I would want to take it apart to find out anyway, these days though people don’t want to pay for that extra time, they just want a new engine installed and not to know if it could just be fixed with a new short block.
Possible that it had a cracked head or blown head gasket and hydrolocked on coolant, and that problem might have started previously when it had low compression on that cylinder. The rod may have already been bent contributing to the catastrophic failure later.
Would be interesting to see when the codes were last cleared (eg if cleared by Ray, or after the fact) to see if some evidence was deleted.
@@theodorgiosan2570agree ,when he split the exhaust water present ,hydrolocked.
Well, if there's a bright side to this carnage, you didn't have to spend any WD40 to lubricate the lower bolts for the pan removal. Don't know about the Pentastar motors, have had my fill of Mitsubishi V6s from the 90s, they were also externally self lubricating. Very interested to see what you find once the engine is removed.
They used to say if the engine nuts and bolts on old motorcycles where rusty then either it's ran out of oil or it's a good tight motor 😄
We bought a used 1993 Mitsubishi Diamante Wagon with 21k miles--made/assembled in Australia. Good car for our young family with kids. We maintained her well and gave us 194k generally trouble free miles (. Lots of room in the engine compartment to work--not like Toyota/Lexus engine bay today. Brakes were not Diamante parts but Montero part numbers. I recall power steering hoses/rack prematurely leaked/dried out or such. Good service until she became a smoker--poorly designed valve stem seals. Time to replace steering rack and valve stem seals so we sold her. Overall good experience but my only Mitsubishi. Same engine in my in-laws Chrysler minivan--and she became a smoker.
Thanks Ray, it was fu. Watching see 👀 you do a total see threw engine block video. 😊😊😊
You can see the two small holes in the block and pan at between 16:00 and 17:00 in the video and larger ones further on.
My guess would be a failed head gasket or cracked head allowing coolant into the combustion chamber and hydraulicing the cylinder.
Yeah but before ray touched it.. hence the low compression because of a bent rod.
Well, no matter what engine it is, mechanics generally only sees the broken ones, so it's skewed sample.
Stellantis should have stuck with the 225 Slant-Six. You wouldn't be having these problems.
The slant six was indestructible, but couldn't meet pollution standards without being severely underpowered, that said modern Chrysler / Stellantis engines are all junk and known for their engine problems across all their product lines
Rod went 1st. Came back around and smacked piston into head causing outward crack. Checking the installed height on the valves will confirm the level of push thru.
Glad to see I am not the only mechanic that watches I do cars to see the destruction. I worked at a local race sho and have seen much greater destruction than you see there. Like a nitro motor with the head totally blown off.
This van is definitely a candidate for an LS swap. 😂
But it would still be a Dodge?
A borescope with a side camera would help 🎥📽
That's a fairly new car (2017). The bearing didn't look so bad. What's the mileage on it? (I agree. A fuel injector doesn't do that. There's got to be more into the history of that car. Also, the silicone presence by the exhaust tells me somebody has worked on that engine before, again, there's more into the story of that car that has not been shared with you.
A leaking injector might have caused an aqua-lock and cracked the piston. Definitely could have bent a rod. Looks like it has been an ongoing problem for a while. I'd think it had been damaged before it came in the first time. Hence, the low compression.
@joebloggs2635 I would agree with your statement as well, but the silicone in the mufflers... says... there's more into it. No experienced mechanic uses silicone in a muffler. Without knowing if the car was purchased at a buy here, pay here place... Oops, I said too much already. 😅 Or... if the car is an original owner. There are too many unknown factors.
The customer has already said there has been several people who has worked on it in the past, trying to fix the misfire problems but without success. And in the first video he commented on the witness marks on several fasteners. There were also some that were lose enough that he remarked on them. All in all I can't see how the owner has kept anything from him. He brought the car to Ray as he hadn't gotten any result with the other garages he had work on the car. And given that all Ray did was inspect, replace one injector, and run a cleaning solution through it this was most likely caused by a preexisting problem. Exactly what the cause was remains to be seen.
i've got an 01 grand caravan with the 3.3 v6 and 299k miles that recently did something similar. it developed a knock on the freeway between pickup and the first stop on my delivery route at 3AM over 100 miles from home, so i kept driving it, it survived the whole route then locked up on my way home. the wrist pin on cylinder 2 broke off, and the crank side of that connecting rod oblonged out until one side snapped. some of the other pistons have marks from hitting the crank also.
Had a couple of these experiences in my early days with British cars, I still have what's left of the pistons and rods on the wall as trophies. But having owned Japanese cars for the last 40 years, these sorts of failures are a fond memory. To be fair, knowing when to switch an engine off and not keep driving helps I guess.